robdylan

Schalk is guilty… And out for 2 weeks (Updated)


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Stormers on 26 Feb 2008 at 11:00
Tagged with :

Stormers flanker Schalk Burger has been found guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct.

He has been cleared of the more serious charge of referee abuse, though, which is good news.

Burger has been handed a 2-week ban, meaning he will only be available for the second match of the Stormers’ antipodean tour.



176 Comments

  • Hi Rob,
    Nice site! Do you know the min/max punishment for what Schalk is charged for?
    STORMERS! :twisted:

  • Comment 1, posted at 25.02.08 17:59:29 by JT Reply
    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • 4 weeks min, 52 weeks max, is what I heard… that may have been for the more serious charge, though.

    I’d be surprised if he gets more than 2 weeks for the “bad sportsmanship” thing… a slap on the wrists.

    Glad you like the site, JT. Good to have you here.

  • Comment 2, posted at 25.02.08 18:50:34 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Rob
    Did you get my mail just now?

  • Comment 3, posted at 25.02.08 19:03:17 by AB Rugby Supporters Voice Reply

    ABAcademy recruit
     
  • A decision on what length of suspension will be handed down will be announced tomorrow. We will keep you updated as this story develops further

    Why?? Do they have to consult the fixture list first? :wink:

  • Comment 4, posted at 25.02.08 19:05:19 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • I don’t know how the two are seperated though?

    The unsportsmanlike behaviour WAS the verbal abuse of the ref. So how is he guilty of the one and NOT the other.

    OR. Is it just more convenient this way for SA Rugby?

  • Comment 5, posted at 25.02.08 19:12:56 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • AB – can’t say I did. Where did you send it to?

  • Comment 6, posted at 25.02.08 19:13:29 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Stormers vent rage at Roos
    Dale Granger
    February 25 2008 at 12:26PM

    The Stormers are in crisis on Monday as they prepare to face New Zealand’s Crusaders at Newlands on Friday (8.35pm), with the possibility that Schalk Burger will be suspended for his abusive gesticulations targeted at assistant referee Willie Roos in Durban on Saturday.

    The bad blood between Roos and the Stormers hit a new low on Saturday as Burger’s temper boiled over when he was yellow carded after being flagged by Roos and singled out as the third party who got involved in an altercation with Sharks captain Johann Muller and prop Brian Mujati.

    But the incident apparently didn’t end there. Word is that coach Rassie Erasmus was involved in a heated argument with Roos after the game as the Stormers lost 12-10 to the Sharks.

    This was after a second Stormers player, replacement centre Dylan des Fountain, had also been sent to the sin-bin.

    Neither Erasmus nor his spokesperson, Frikkie Erasmus, could be contacted.

    SA Rugby manager of legal affairs Christo Ferreira has confirmed that Burger will face a disciplinary hearing at SA Rugby on Monday after he left the field and gave Roos the middle finger, mouthing expletives and making a gesture implying that the official needed glasses.

    The incident came after months of unhappiness in Cape rugby towards Roos, dating back to last year’s Currie Cup when the referee was blamed for his handling of the Western Province-Bulls match at Newlands.

    Two weeks ago Erasmus was asked what he thought of Roos and the coach replied: “He is a good referee and I have no problem with him.”

    Two days later, however, Erasmus complained about Roos’ handling of his team’s opening Super 14 match against the Bulls.

    The Stormers lost 16-9 and after the game Stormers managing director Rob Wagner sent SA Rugby a letter of complaint about Roos’ handling of the game.

    The Stormers clearly resent Roos and Burger wasn’t the only Cape player to vent his anger. Mujati, who was involved in a running battle with Muller, also made a finger gesture at Roos after being tripped by the Sharks captain in an off the ball incident just metres from the assistant referee.

    To complicate matters, Muller corroborated the Stormers story that Burger had only been trying to pull him off Mujati. He said: “Mujati and I were involved and Schalk came in from the side. He did nothing to hurt me.”

    Nevertheless, SA Rugby manager of referees Andre Watson, said he expected stern action to be taken against Burger if he was found guilty.

    “The issue is not about right or wrong (Roos’ performance). It’s about doing the right thing to stamp out abuse of referees or else the sport will degenerate to the level of soccer. Burger is a hero to millions, but what sort of example is he setting,” said Watson.

    Ferreira said he was uncertain what sanction Burger might face if found guilty of bad sportsmanship and abuse of a match official.

    The only known precedent at this level was the two-year ban (18 months suspended) and a big fine Percy Montgomery received in 2003 for pushing an assistant referee while playing for Welsh club Newport.

    It’s bad enough that the Stormers, already reeling from two successive defeats, might be without Burger. They now also have to pick themselves up to face the unbeaten Crusaders who annihilated the Bulls with a 54-19, seven-to-one try demolition at Loftus on Friday.

  • Comment 7, posted at 25.02.08 19:16:17 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • “Two days later, however, Erasmus complained about Roos’ handling of his team’s opening Super 14 match against the Bulls.”

    :twisted: :razz:

    Ha! So Rassie DID complain! And this after all the Strompies (or should that be Stroppies) claimed it was just the offcials NOT Rassie!

    Expect lots more b!tching to come from Boolands this week! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 8, posted at 25.02.08 19:18:03 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • Rob
    To your mail!

  • Comment 9, posted at 25.02.08 19:18:14 by AB Rugby Supporters Voice Reply

    ABAcademy recruit
     
  • I see on Keo that they say in their article that Assistant referee Willie Roos recommended a yellow card for Burger’s transgression which incensed the Springbok.

    FFS will these guys get it into their heads that Roos DID NOT recommend the yellow card. :evil:

    Deaker actually cut him short during his explanaition and said he was going to yellow card. :evil:

    GET IT RIGHT NOW PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 10, posted at 25.02.08 19:21:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Andre
    Mail my asb!

  • Comment 11, posted at 25.02.08 19:34:56 by AB Rugby Supporters Voice Reply

    ABAcademy recruit
     
  • AB

    on your mail you used to register?

    Will send now

  • Comment 12, posted at 25.02.08 19:40:56 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • sent

  • Comment 13, posted at 25.02.08 19:43:02 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Agreed, he saw it and pointed it out to Deaker, who had also seen it. Roos didn’t actually suggest the Yellow, but agreed with Deaker who said he would issue a yellow. Burger had been involved in a number of incidents and given away numerous penalties, so he was a sin-bin waiting to happen anyway.

    Of course, Burger didn’t know at the time that Roos was simply pointing out what he had seen, and effectively only corroborating Deaker’s evidence, but the fact is he brought the game into disrepute.

  • Comment 14, posted at 25.02.08 19:45:05 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • HB

    To ME the fact is that some of the media carry on with this KAK that Roos recommended the yellow card and TO ME that is a touchy subject.

  • Comment 15, posted at 25.02.08 19:51:01 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Do referees get banned/fined for bringing the game into disrepute? IMO there were 2 calls this weekend that cost 2 team the game! IMO Cheetahs and Highlanders got penalised for ruck infringements which should have been FK and not PK!

  • Comment 16, posted at 25.02.08 19:54:14 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • yip, this is going to result in a witchunt.

    couldn’t have happened to a more competent ref though ;)

  • Comment 17, posted at 25.02.08 19:55:09 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • I heard the TV commentary and it was patently obvious that Deaker was already aware of the incident, and had already decided on punishment. Roos simply backed him up. If Burger had gestured to Deaker as he had Roos, he would have received a RED. He was clearly wrong.

  • Comment 18, posted at 25.02.08 19:55:46 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • IMO schalk should get penalised and I would go as far as 4 to 6 weeks! we certinly do not want this soccer crap in our sport!

  • Comment 19, posted at 25.02.08 19:57:13 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • As much as I dislike Roos, he actually is the innocent party here. Muller admitted there was nothing in it, but that the laws are clear, and Burger transgressed and got the exact punishment he should have.

    I thought there were one or two Spear tackles that got off this weekend.

  • Comment 20, posted at 25.02.08 19:57:51 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Night all. Off to watch the Oscars!

  • Comment 21, posted at 25.02.08 19:58:16 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • refs must also keep an eye on Liewe Lulu, when he still held the reins at chez-Newlands he also loved gesticulating, making incredulous facial expressions & remonstrating with the refs in soccer fashion when decisions didn’t go WP’s way.

  • Comment 22, posted at 25.02.08 19:59:59 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • Lulu??

  • Comment 23, posted at 25.02.08 20:01:57 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • Cheers HB.

  • Comment 24, posted at 25.02.08 20:03:26 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • I suspect Lulu is the Jersey Snatcher. :wink:

  • Comment 25, posted at 25.02.08 20:03:56 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • ?? Praat ingels! :evil:
    #46?

  • Comment 26, posted at 25.02.08 20:06:04 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • Hey where’d Quinny go now?

    Hey Quinny enlighten us here dude? Who did you mean?

  • Comment 27, posted at 25.02.08 20:08:17 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Well if nobody else, at least 365 have got it right.

    an illegal action pointed out by touch judge Willie Roos. New Zealand referee Kelvin Deaker, who also saw Burger’s entrance into the fray, yellow carded Burger.

  • Comment 28, posted at 25.02.08 20:23:21 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • yes yes yes it is jersey snatcher! :idea:

  • Comment 29, posted at 25.02.08 20:34:59 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • :wink: Hey – what’s all this “like soccer” in regard to insulting refs??????
    Do what Burger did to an English Premiership ref. and you are on your way down the tunnel…never to return….there is a big difference in trying to argue your point and making rude gestures and comments.IMO soccer refs. are far better protected than are the rugga refs. BUT give a poor preformance in a soccer game & you are out for a couple of weeks “rehabilitation”! In rugby, it doesn’t seem to matter, you still get to ref. or “run the line” the following week.
    Have you ever heard of a rugby ref. admitt to a poor game & apologise??
    In soccer the refs. are a lot more honest :smile:

  • Comment 30, posted at 25.02.08 23:49:25 by Me2 Reply

    Me2 aka Mama SharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • evening ;)

  • Comment 31, posted at 26.02.08 00:01:20 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Stormers are knobs… hard to support them against any team, even as a Saffa!

  • Comment 32, posted at 26.02.08 02:15:38 by bryce_in_oz Reply

    bryce_in_ozCurrie Cup player
     
  • Please don’t let’s ever accuse the Aussies or Kiwi’s of letting their offending players get off to lightly with transgressions.

    The Stormers were on Monday night anxiously waiting to hear what punishment Springbok flank Schalk Burger faces, after being found guilty of “an act contrary to good sportsmanship” during Saturday’s Super 14 clash against the Sharks.

    Burger appeared before a Sanzar disciplinary committee at Newlands. Committee chairperson Jannie Lubbe is expected to announce Burger’s punishment on Tuesday morning.

    The Stormers’ commercial manager and legal adviser Frikkie Erasmus, said: “It was a fair hearing and we just have to wait and see what the punishment will be.”

    The good news for the Stormers is that Burger wasn’t found guilty of abusing the referee’s assistant Willie Roos verbally or with hand gestures.

    This means that Lubbe will not be bound to give Burger a minimum sentence of six weeks, as stated in the International Rugby Board’s regulations. Lubbe thus has to use his discretion.

    There is still a chance that Burger could be suspended for a week or more.

    “It would be a huge setback if Schalk can’t play. He is one of the world’s best players,” says Stormers coach Rassie Erasmus.

  • Comment 33, posted at 26.02.08 08:06:31 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • May be jumping the gun a bit but this just looks so much like Burger is being set up for a 1week suspension. Why Bother?

    The good news for the Stormers is that Burger wasn’t found guilty of abusing the referee’s assistant Willie Roos verbally or with hand gestures.

    This means that Lubbe will not be bound to give Burger a minimum sentence of six weeks, as stated in the International Rugby Board’s regulations

    As I asked last night, How can he be found guilty of bad sportsmanship but NOT of abusing the ref? The bad sportsmanship that he displayed WAS the abuse of the ref.

    Please don’t tell me they do not consider a player saying to the ref. “Is jy F@##$n blind?” as abuse? :shock:

    He deserves a GOOD suspension anything else will be nothing more than window dressing.

  • Comment 34, posted at 26.02.08 08:11:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • “The good news for the Stormers is that Burger wasn’t found guilty of abusing the referee’s assistant Willie Roos verbally or with hand gestures.”

    And Jacob Zuma isn’t a crook!

  • Comment 35, posted at 26.02.08 08:13:53 by bryce_in_oz Reply

    bryce_in_ozCurrie Cup player
     
  • Still think its a kak rule. So this mean if two guys have a fight, you cant go in and take them apart? The same thing with Steyn in the Fiji WC clash and those pointing and bitching on Schalk was all up in arms about that one. Get a grip manne, rugby aint for sussie and if you played the game you’ll know you get emotional about unfair yellows. Anyone that watch the game and know the way AJ & kie operate will know Muller was the one that should be cited. Hope Schalk will learn from this one and if it happen again give Muller a good f#$%ing klap and get red with a smile.

  • Comment 36, posted at 26.02.08 09:11:11 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • and the thing about Roos, why the f%^k did he put his flag out in the first place. He was on the other side of the field. Hope he’ll never blow a game of rugby again. If he get a Kiwi or Aussie game he is going to disgrace the SA refs.

    When OogKlappe Henning say he was wrong in a Stormers game, well that tells it all.

    I am not one to use refs as excuses but I have only one word for Roos, that is D@@s and treurig. He must go back to prymary rugby for all I care.

  • Comment 37, posted at 26.02.08 09:16:40 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • Paarl Bok – I’m sure you’re read the comments above – he is also obliged to report foul play. If he saw it, and he did, he brought it to the ref’s attention. The ref had already seen it and so it was simply a corroboration. I really don’t like Roos as a matter of course, but in this case, there is absolutely no argument to be made against him. The yellow card was not even mentioned by him, but by Deaker and Roos simply agreed.

  • Comment 38, posted at 26.02.08 09:22:32 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Taking players apart foul play. Not in my books and a mistake by Deaker in the first place. Maybe Schalkie was to rough taking them apart! Roos on the other side of the field and put his flag out, we called it a bit voorbarig if you ask me. This is professional players and coaches and I think its time the ref and linesman act the same.

  • Comment 39, posted at 26.02.08 09:26:34 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • JP Nel got off the swinging arm case. Anyone know of footage on YouTube?

  • Comment 40, posted at 26.02.08 09:26:56 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Talking professional, Schalk hardly showed that when he walked off gesturing at the TJ. That is petulent, childish and very amateurish behaviour.

  • Comment 41, posted at 26.02.08 09:28:28 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • So this mean if two guys have a fight, you cant go in and take them apart?

    Exactly!!!!! And that is the way it should be, coz we as rugby players never go in to take it apart do we? :wink:

  • Comment 42, posted at 26.02.08 09:30:02 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • PaarlBok.

    ***********************
    Steady on the Language please?

    I don’t want to spend the day cleaning up comments please?

    By all means swear if needed but clean them up a bit with $^#&’s please?
    ***********************

  • Comment 43, posted at 26.02.08 09:33:13 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • We’ll looking at Mujatsi bloody mouth they got it all wrong. The days when I played rugby and your buddy get moered you sure as hell try to take them apart. If you cant do that, you need to go play poofball.

    HB I dont agree with the gesture thing but I can assured you he was furious. I know Schalk playing rugby from schooldays (my avator) and he play hard and it was the first time I saw him that angry.

  • Comment 44, posted at 26.02.08 09:35:27 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • JP Nel got off the swinging arm case. Anyone know of footage on YouTube?

    26.02.08 09:26:56 – hellbent Edit

    I am afraid not, have been looking for footage of that and of the discussion between Roos and Deaker but nothing has come up so far. :sad:

  • Comment 45, posted at 26.02.08 09:36:56 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Sorry for the vloekwoorde manne, maybe I’ll just move on and never return to this thread. :roll:

  • Comment 46, posted at 26.02.08 09:37:56 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • Paarl Bok :smile:

    Please don’t visit the one that goes up when his suspension is announced. :wink: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 47, posted at 26.02.08 09:42:59 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • JP Nel got off the swinging arm case. Anyone know of footage on YouTube?
    26.02.08 09:26:56 – hellbent Edit

    I have the game on HDD so I can quickly make the videoclip tonight but I am going to need the OST (on screen time) of the incident. I can’t go through the whole game again. I am not a masochist :lol:

  • Comment 48, posted at 26.02.08 10:04:41 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • JT :lol:

    How about putting the Schalk incident up for us? Be sure to include the discussion between Roos and Deaker. :wink:

    Have you got the time for that? think it was 46min.

  • Comment 49, posted at 26.02.08 10:07:50 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Also, importantly, show the finger gesture. Apparently, that footage seems to have gone missing when the case was heard, and thus no “referee abuse”. Amazing what goes on on the fairest cape….

  • Comment 50, posted at 26.02.08 10:26:56 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • I watched that over and over. There was never a “finger shown” on the TV footage. Only the childish mouthing off and “use your eyes” gestures.

  • Comment 51, posted at 26.02.08 10:38:10 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • JT – please explain to me how you manage to record the games on your HD?

  • Comment 52, posted at 26.02.08 10:38:38 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • How about putting the Schalk incident up for us?
    26.02.08 10:07:50 – KSA Shark ©

    I only was able to see this on mediazone so do not have the ability to make video clips from that game. Sorry :???:

  • Comment 53, posted at 26.02.08 10:45:23 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • I am still waiting for the outcome and its bad I’ll just give KSA his wish.

    If he get plenty maybe a good thing for the Bokke because he havent even take more then a Xmast New Years break from rugby.

    The Stormers do have plenty of loosies tho, Justin Melck playing for Maties in the Vasity Cup.

    Like to see Myburg have a go with Watson and Francois Louw.

  • Comment 54, posted at 26.02.08 10:47:46 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • JT – please explain to me how you manage to record the games on your HD?
    26.02.08 10:38:38 – robdylan

    I have a “Grabster” which is a little box that takes the analog signal from my Sky box (yes even a digi box has an analog output) and digitizes it and through USB it records to by PC/laptop. Then to cut the video clips I use DivX Authro which is a great prog and worth every penny! :cool:

  • Comment 55, posted at 26.02.08 10:47:47 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • ok – cool.

    I’m looking at a piece of software that claims it can legally strip the DRM out of the files you download off MediaZone. I’m a little annoyed with the later, cos even after you pay for the game, you can only watch it for 1 week before you have to pay again.

    CNUTS!

  • Comment 56, posted at 26.02.08 11:05:13 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Rob,

    They showed footage on Superrugby on DSTV’s Kyknet and their was a ugly finger involved… :roll:

  • Comment 57, posted at 26.02.08 11:10:40 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • 26.02.08 11:05:13 – robdylan

    Certainly ain’t legal :roll:
    I have a year contract with mediazone! Is much cheaper!

  • Comment 58, posted at 26.02.08 11:12:03 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • only was able to see this on mediazone so do not have the ability to make video clips from that game. Sorry

    26.02.08 10:45:23 – JT Edit

    Thanks. :sad:

  • Comment 59, posted at 26.02.08 11:12:30 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • 11h12… JT, I’m going to pretend you didn’t say that ;)

  • Comment 60, posted at 26.02.08 11:14:15 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • 26.02.08 11:14:15 – robdylan

    If it works let me know :twisted:

  • Comment 61, posted at 26.02.08 11:15:19 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • So as you can see from the updated heading Burger only got two weeks. :evil:

    I will repeat my 08:06 post. :evil:

    Please don’t let’s ever accuse the Aussies or Kiwi’s of letting their offending players get off too lightly with transgressions.

  • Comment 62, posted at 26.02.08 11:33:29 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • 26.02.08 11:33:29 – KSA Shark ©

    Don’t worry we have the ultimate revenge on these Aussies and Kiwis! We are going to let loose Willie Roos on them :twisted: :lol:

  • Comment 63, posted at 26.02.08 11:37:44 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • I hope 2 weeks will be enough for Sc-HULK to relax and lose his green pigmentation :mrgreen: and get normal sized clothes…

  • Comment 64, posted at 26.02.08 11:37:56 by blackshark Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • Just 2 weeks.

    Im happy for Schalk and the Stormers, but this is not a sufficient punishment I’m afraid.

    And PaarlBok – I am a massive Schalk fan, and agree that Willie is a do%s, but Schalk did overstep the boundary significantly. :sad:

  • Comment 65, posted at 26.02.08 11:39:10 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • JT :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    It so true that it’s actually not funny.

  • Comment 66, posted at 26.02.08 11:39:47 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • 26.02.08 11:39:47 – KSA Shark ©

    Hey we had to do with a Dickenson! (I must admit he has improved out of sight over the last 2 seasons)

  • Comment 67, posted at 26.02.08 11:45:53 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • Geez – what was he thinking??? And the Stormers really needed him this week.

  • Comment 68, posted at 26.02.08 11:47:18 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • thats the worst part imo Nessa, was hoping for a stormers suprise and a huge boost in confidence, but now fear another hammering, things not really breaking for rassie.

  • Comment 69, posted at 26.02.08 11:51:48 by cab Reply

    cabVodacom Cup player
     
  • if any side can knock over the Crusaders at the moment, it’s LAST YEAR’s stormers ;)

  • Comment 70, posted at 26.02.08 11:52:51 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Cab – I really like Schalk – he really looked out of sorts. I wondered whether there wasn’t more to it that what we saw – but according to Johann Muller – there wasn’t.

  • Comment 71, posted at 26.02.08 11:55:08 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Muller is becoming a niggly SOB. Must say, I like it… just what you need from a lock. Look at Andrews and Martin Johnston. Bakkies too.

    Who told me that Muller is in fact Andrews’ protege?

  • Comment 72, posted at 26.02.08 12:07:00 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • RD – have you also noticed that? Not like him? He used to be such a softie. Also noticed that Jacques has also become stroppy.

  • Comment 73, posted at 26.02.08 12:25:09 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Ness – Muller has always been quiet… not sure about soft.

    No place for softies in the engine room, I’m afraid.

  • Comment 74, posted at 26.02.08 12:42:03 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • LOL @ RD. You know what I mean – he’s not “nasty”!

  • Comment 75, posted at 26.02.08 12:48:44 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • no… but neither was Andrews. All in the spirit of the game.

    Muller didn’t do anything illegal enough to get carded to penalised.What he did do is contrive to get Burger sent off (and Mujati pissed off enough that his game suffered). That’s gamesmanship and it’s clever.

    I am filled with new respect for our skipper

  • Comment 76, posted at 26.02.08 12:51:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • I know – it’s great hey!

  • Comment 77, posted at 26.02.08 12:54:23 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • and Ackies is still a legend.

  • Comment 78, posted at 26.02.08 13:05:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • From the Stormers site.

    The hearing was convened to consider the citing of Burger, following an incident in which the Citing Commissioner alleged that the player had shown an abusive sign after being yellow carded.

    During the hearing, Burger conceded that by showing signs after receiving a yellow card, he acted in breach of the law. He strongly denied abusing Assistant Referee Willie Roos.

    The Joke just got so much bigger. :evil: :evil:
    How can he concede to showing rude signs but deny that he abused Roos? So who did he show the signs at?

    DON’T EVER COMPLAIN ABOUT THE OTHER SANZAR GUYS BEING LENIENT ON THEIR PLAYERS.

    THIS STINKS

  • Comment 79, posted at 26.02.08 13:21:31 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • 26.02.08 13:21:31 – KSA Shark ©

    He showed two fingers and gestured to his eyes! That is not rude just sign language but Schalk should know sign language won’t work with Roos because he is blind anyway :lol:

  • Comment 80, posted at 26.02.08 13:33:21 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • agree. I want a refund

  • Comment 81, posted at 26.02.08 13:34:24 by robdylan Reply
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  • But before you jump on my back I did suggest earlier on this thread that he should get between 4 and 6 weeks at least! :sad:

  • Comment 82, posted at 26.02.08 13:34:37 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • jump on your back? This ain’t stormersworld ;) :)

  • Comment 83, posted at 26.02.08 13:35:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • Stormers don’t just jump like you guppies, they sweet talk you first with sign language :twisted:

  • Comment 84, posted at 26.02.08 13:37:25 by JT Reply

    JT-www.rugby-innsbruck.atUnder 21 player
     
  • Gudden dag

  • Comment 85, posted at 26.02.08 13:40:39 by provincejoulekkading Reply
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  • he he… was hoping there’d be a romantic candlelit dinner at some point, JT ;)

  • Comment 86, posted at 26.02.08 14:00:48 by robdylan Reply
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  • Creating the right impression

    by Gavin Rich | 26 February 2008 (09:19)

    It was sad to see a player of Schalk Burger’s standing with the South African rugby public being hauled in front of a disciplinary committee, but it was right that it was done.
    However frustrated Burger may have felt at the yellow card he received in the Stormers/Sharks match, and right now the assistant referee Willie Roos, who was the target of Burger’s gesticulating, is not the flavour of the month in the Cape, his reaction to it was over the top.

    I don’t know what Burger might have argued in mitigation. From the vantage point of the ABSA Stadium press box Burger appeared to be having a real go at Roos. It didn’t look from where I was sitting like he was chatting to someone in the stands, perhaps asking them to meet him for a drink afterwards.

    The problem is that what Burger was doing just sends out the wrong message to the millions of youngsters to whom he is a role-model. And his little tizzy fit was all too similar to something that has irked me for a long time now while indulging in one of my favourite past-times of watching cricket on television.

    We all know that umpires often make mistakes. Some batsmen have been given some really rough decisions down the years, and when they are, you can hardly blame them if they walk back to the pavilion shaking their heads.

    But it gets overdone. Too often I see batsmen who are quite clearly out plumb lbw or who have offered a thick edge to the ball on its way through to the wicket-keeper shaking their heads and behaving like spoilt kids.

    Of course, there are fines for this sort of thing, but somehow it just seems to be more prevalent today than it used to be. That this is so is probably because of the all-pervading nature of the television coverage, and my irritation extends to far more than just the batsman’s reaction to being given out.

    Old timers tell me that Mike Procter was a champion sledger, and I know that Clive Rice used to have some choice words to batsmen as they came out to face him. But somehow, from where I was sitting in the stands, it was never as obvious when I was a boy as some of the sledging and snarling is when it is picked up on television today.

    When I once saw Vince van der Bijl, after facing two savage bouncers from Rice at Kingsmead, throw his bat down the pitch, I assumed he was joking. But if it happened now we would have cause to wonder, for somehow the humour appears to have been taken out of the gentleman’s game.

    I used to enjoy Andre Nel, I thought his aggression brought a new dimension to the Proteas attack. But just lately, perhaps because of over-exposure and because his routine has become so predictable, he has started to become too much. For goodness sake, if a batsman hits you for four, he is only doing what he was selected into his team to do.

    And running past a batsman who has just been bowled and giving him a send-off just smacks of cowardice as it is not as if that batsman is going to be able to respond.

    Those who watch a lot of school cricket tell me that the habits picked up off television are sneaking into the game at that level, with sledging and dissent with umpire decisions becoming more prevalent. I can well understand why this happens, because when I was at school I thought of myself as a clone of Van der Bijl, and when I appealed for lbw, which was just about every ball, the roar could be heard two blocks away.

    The youngsters of today are as impressionable as we were. The message that is sent out must be the right one. If it is watching men remonstrating and arguing with referees that floats your boat, then you ought to be watching British football, or a video of John McEnroe’s worst moments at Wimbledon, not rugby union.

  • Comment 87, posted at 26.02.08 14:20:57 by Le Requinny Reply
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  • what’s “cricket”?

  • Comment 88, posted at 26.02.08 14:23:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • lol, what’s “Loving” & who is Trisha?

  • Comment 89, posted at 26.02.08 14:28:39 by Le Requinny Reply
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  • he he… fair point, Quinn

  • Comment 90, posted at 26.02.08 14:30:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • Wonder if Gavin Rich realize rugby is a professional sport these days?

  • Comment 91, posted at 26.02.08 14:54:25 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • 26.02.08 14:54:25 – PaarlBok

    With due repect, I think it was Schalk who forgot it was a professional game on Saturday…

  • Comment 92, posted at 26.02.08 15:04:39 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • PB – you’re out on a limb trying to defend Burger’s behaviour on this one, dude.

  • Comment 93, posted at 26.02.08 15:04:48 by robdylan Reply
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  • What do you mean PaarlBok?

  • Comment 94, posted at 26.02.08 15:05:52 by Waz Reply

    WazUnder 21 player
     
  • At least Schalk was lucky enough to just get 2 weeks, imagine if it happened in NZ or OZ… :shock:

  • Comment 95, posted at 26.02.08 15:10:17 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • He showed two fingers and gestured to his eyes! That is not rude just sign language but Schalk should know sign language won’t work with Roos because he is blind anyway

    26.02.08 13:33:21 – JT Edit

    apparently there is footage of Burger kicking Roos’ guidedog as well. I wonder why that wasn’t introduced as evidence. :wink:

  • Comment 96, posted at 26.02.08 15:17:52 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • KSA – you guys are so funny! :roll:

  • Comment 97, posted at 26.02.08 15:21:19 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Look like KSA want to make some symbols again :roll:

    Rugby is a professional sport for players and coaches. Its their career, so pressure is full on and winning means everything.

    In the good old days of his examples it was amateur and more sportsman like friendly.

    ……and I am back on this thread, cant help myself. :oops:

  • Comment 98, posted at 26.02.08 15:26:13 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • PB – I sense you like Schalk Burger almost as much as I do Brad Barritt? ;)

  • Comment 99, posted at 26.02.08 15:27:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • Just because a sport is professional is no excuse for poor conduct. In fact, I’d argue it’s quite the opposite.

    Kak referee decisions were partly responsible for the Sharks loss against the Bulls in the final last year. I didn’t see any Sharks players publicly having a go at the ref or TJ (in retrospect they were probably too stunned to react anyway :) ).

  • Comment 100, posted at 26.02.08 15:37:33 by Waz Reply

    WazUnder 21 player
     
  • what next, players trying to take the card from the ref’s hand, soccer style?

  • Comment 101, posted at 26.02.08 15:41:18 by Le Requinny Reply
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  • roll it and smoke it… ;)

  • Comment 102, posted at 26.02.08 15:43:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • quinncenzo… when can we expect part 2 of your excellent series, BTW?

  • Comment 103, posted at 26.02.08 15:44:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • OK, OK. I’ll back off from this one. :cool:

  • Comment 104, posted at 26.02.08 15:52:58 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • nah – you don’t need to. It’s good to be passionate about the causes you believe in.

    Just realise that you are really in the minority here when it comes to this issue, so be prepared to fight hard for your ground ;)

  • Comment 105, posted at 26.02.08 15:54:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • I’ll drive them over the dead ball line! :wink:

  • Comment 106, posted at 26.02.08 15:56:58 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • well Robert I have a new urgency about it, if not to set the record straight about Rudi Keil…that Sharksrugby article was a bit highly spun, tsk tsk

  • Comment 107, posted at 26.02.08 15:58:38 by Le Requinny Reply
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  • I like Rudi – what record are you setting straight Quin???

  • Comment 108, posted at 26.02.08 16:00:52 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • I ain’t even read it. I am no Keil fan, never have been.

    Those who know him tell me he’s a lovely bloke. I unfortunately haven’t had the pleasure of meeting him, I just reckon he never did a bloody thing in a black jersey worthy of a mention.

  • Comment 109, posted at 26.02.08 16:00:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • Don’t think RD particularly liked Rudi if I remember correctly …

  • Comment 110, posted at 26.02.08 16:01:24 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Nessa has just confirmed what I said. Ness – I gather you know Rudy, right?

  • Comment 111, posted at 26.02.08 16:01:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • Ahhh – I was right. :grin:

  • Comment 112, posted at 26.02.08 16:01:57 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • I’m sure Rudi is a very nice chap, looks quite affable BUT…

  • Comment 113, posted at 26.02.08 16:02:10 by Le Requinny Reply
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  • Yup – very well. He is a party animal of note!!!

  • Comment 114, posted at 26.02.08 16:02:29 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • watch out Ness, Rob’s going to ask for his email address, mobile number etc

  • Comment 115, posted at 26.02.08 16:03:23 by Le Requinny Reply
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  • Sorry Nessa – Im sure Rudi was a great guys, but as a player…. :shock:

  • Comment 116, posted at 26.02.08 16:03:31 by Big Fish Reply
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  • “Im sure Rudi was a great guys”

    ————————————

    Bliksem, BF but living behind the boerie curtain has really dented your prose!

  • Comment 117, posted at 26.02.08 16:06:47 by Le Requinny Reply
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  • I remember having this fight with Sharksgirl over and over. She couldn’t see past my criticism of Keil the player and realise it was nothing personal against Keil the man.

  • Comment 118, posted at 26.02.08 16:07:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • I know, I know, but you know us girls. Rudi was at several of our Year End Functions in Jhb and we got to know him really well. Also spent some time with them at Sun City a few years ago. He played 13 if I remember correctly? Not the greatest.

  • Comment 119, posted at 26.02.08 16:07:19 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • game set match ;)

    ‘ol Rudi carries a EU passport, which has helped him greatly… Think his Dad represented Austria at the Winter Olympics or something.

  • Comment 120, posted at 26.02.08 16:09:03 by Le Requinny Reply
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    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • RD – I remember that. I am not like that – I could see his shortcomings.

    I did, however, get very defensive about people like Brent and Keegan when the public were unduly critical of them – but I have realised that a lot of it was the fact that I had a soft spot for them. Have learnt to curb that!

  • Comment 121, posted at 26.02.08 16:09:21 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Going to watch some Sale Sharks games though and see if he has improved. After all, I can watch Luke at the same time.

  • Comment 122, posted at 26.02.08 16:10:06 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • yeah, but people need to also learn to play the ball, not the man. That is something that doesn’t often happen on blogs.

    I guess I am just as guilty. When I say something like “Wynand Olivier is useless”, can I really argue that I am not insulting him as a person? Calling JP Nel a thug is a clear reflection on him as a person as well…

  • Comment 123, posted at 26.02.08 16:11:59 by robdylan Reply
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  • ja you see the thing is Ness that he hasn’t really figured for the Sharks this season…

    (won’t write anymore else I’ll give the content of my next article away)

  • Comment 124, posted at 26.02.08 16:13:22 by Le Requinny Reply
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  • Sorry Quinny – I can like to try harder. :oops:

    Nessa, I can relate.

    I was the same way about Anna Kournikova. :wink:

  • Comment 125, posted at 26.02.08 16:13:46 by Big Fish Reply
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  • I got into plenty of trouble on the Sharks website last year for knocking JP. I just felt that he was given so much more chance to shine than anyone else. Yes, he eventually came good, and he is a very skillful player when he puts his mind to it – but I just felt it took him a long time and other players were benched week after week to let him play.

  • Comment 126, posted at 26.02.08 16:14:30 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • back to WO…

    is it just me or does anyone else see Dylan des Fountain’s great potential to be the next WO – 2007 model?

  • Comment 127, posted at 26.02.08 16:14:58 by Le Requinny Reply
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    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • Quin – are you talking about Keegan here?

    BF – in my case I am a bit old for these young whipper snappers but I develop a real fondness for them and defend them to the death. But I am learning.

  • Comment 128, posted at 26.02.08 16:15:56 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • no, Rudi still

  • Comment 129, posted at 26.02.08 16:17:43 by Le Requinny Reply
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    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • Is Frans really good looking? I always thought he was a bit of a troll…

    Frans has really course features, though… a big nose, thick lips… Is that really what women find attractive?
    66. Posted by RobDylan (Hamchutney) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 – 16:15

    LMAO :lol: , is this the sort of stuff you talk about on other blogs?

  • Comment 130, posted at 26.02.08 16:19:59 by Le Requinny Reply
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    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • Ask Fish about the animated discussion he and I had about JP last year ;)

    Quinn, not sure Dylan is in the same league as Wynand

  • Comment 131, posted at 26.02.08 16:21:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • Nessa; I was one of those who defended JP.

    For me, its like the situation regarding Jacques Kallis and Gibbs versus Boeta Dippenaar or Neil McKenzie. or even Christiano Ronaldo as opposed to so many others.

    There is no arguing that some players get given so many more chances than others, but some times its because they just have that something special, even if they aren’t producing it on the field.

    JP was big, fast, and elusive even when he was raw. Factor in that he played lock till the end of high school at a really crap rugby school, and you can see that more than most players, he had the potential to improve explosively.

    I still maintain that you cant coach athletic ability – and that why no matter how devoted and hard-working the Ndungane’s, Mametsa’s and such are, they can never be real world-class.

  • Comment 132, posted at 26.02.08 16:22:08 by Big Fish Reply
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  • that’s not ME! I’m robdylan, without any capitalisation ;)

    Ok, seriously, I like to call it a horses-for-courses blogging policy ;)

  • Comment 133, posted at 26.02.08 16:22:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • 26.02.08 16:21:51 – robdylan

    Touche!

  • Comment 134, posted at 26.02.08 16:22:51 by Big Fish Reply
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  • So you reckon Odwa is the weak link in our backline, Feesh?

  • Comment 135, posted at 26.02.08 16:23:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • Not weak link Rob; but he will never set the world alight.

    He is the kind of player you refer to as “solid” and “safe”.

    I dont want solid and safe wingers; even less so then I want my women like that! :wink:

    He is great at S14 level, but if Wagenstrom, with his pace and power were to step up, Odwa would probably be on my bench.

    He is probably the 3rd best wing in the country though – we dont develop predatory killers at wing unfortunately.

    Hey, remember the great white hype – Rathbone? Wonder when he is gonna trundle back to S14 rugby.

  • Comment 136, posted at 26.02.08 16:26:37 by Big Fish Reply
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  • LR know Dyllie des Fountain quite well. Watch him ,he’ll be great, given time to settle in 13. To compare him to WO make no sense at all.

  • Comment 137, posted at 26.02.08 16:33:24 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • Wagenstroom… would like to see him given a chance, sure.

    Man, you are right, though. There just aren’t any REALLY decent wingers outside of Habana.

  • Comment 138, posted at 26.02.08 16:33:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • Paarl – that’s actually what I meant.

  • Comment 139, posted at 26.02.08 16:34:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • you guys know that Wagenstroom is yet ANOTHER player that WP let slip from their net?

    Was still playing VC for them 2/3 seasons ago…

    As for DDF, just like WO, he start with some hype yet has failed to deliver – I just don’t see what’s meant to be so special with him, time to start showing his true potential. Just like WOI needs to skrik wakker.

  • Comment 140, posted at 26.02.08 16:45:41 by Le Requinny Reply
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    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • JP Pieterson, Rob? :evil:

    Ever wonder if maybe our failure to produce world-class, out-and-out wings has something to do with our preoccupation with utility backs who can do everything?

    I dont mind a wing like Lomu, Wilson, or a young Paulse, whose main job is to score tries; not be able to punt the ball 40m and pass off both hands.

    Maybe the inability to produce a world-class flyhalf is also related to that.

  • Comment 141, posted at 26.02.08 16:48:45 by Big Fish Reply
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  • hmmm… you think JP has looked world class in his two outing to date, Fish?

    I don’t… I should know, he’s in my fantasy league team, earning me a net return of F ALL every week ;)

  • Comment 142, posted at 26.02.08 16:50:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • Ja, scientific evaluation there Rob – I wonder if Robbie Deans hasn’t cottoned onto FL yet – Oz team selections sorted! :roll:

    Two outings haven’t been great for the Sharks, but he didnt look out of place at this level, and you might have missed that he hasn’t dropped a pass or up-and-under yet, while he has kicked reasonably well.

    Notice anything different from early last season, when he ended up topping the try-scoring list, Sherlock? :wink:

    A wing needs to get the ball to excel.

  • Comment 143, posted at 26.02.08 16:57:32 by Big Fish Reply
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  • hmmmm…. I knew you were going to try and befuddle me with reason and logic. Your well-thought-out arguments don’t stand a chance against my uninformed tirade!

    Oh wait… what site is this again?

  • Comment 144, posted at 26.02.08 17:04:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • Nessa’s World? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 145, posted at 26.02.08 17:08:26 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Nessa’s Family Blog, yes…

  • Comment 146, posted at 26.02.08 17:10:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • KSA – you guys are so funny!

    26.02.08 15:21:19 – Nessa Edit

    You know how is is only acceptable for a Ni@@er to call another black guy Ni@@er.

    Well just like that it is only acceptable for referees to call other referees blind etc. :wink:

    Personaaly my daughters hate it that they can’t shout around MY dog. :wink:

  • Comment 147, posted at 26.02.08 17:15:42 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • We will talk again after the S14 Rob me lad. :grin:

  • Comment 148, posted at 26.02.08 17:16:37 by Big Fish Reply
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  • we will indeed, Fish.

    Maybe while gazing at the trophy in its rightful place… the Kings Park trophy cabinet.

  • Comment 149, posted at 26.02.08 17:25:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • And I DIDN’T SAY IT, IT WAS POSTED BY A BULL ON THERI WEBSITE.

    Winning the trophy last year meant nothing because the AB’s weren’t in it the whole season.

  • Comment 150, posted at 26.02.08 17:29:37 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • it would have if we’d won it ;)

  • Comment 151, posted at 26.02.08 17:33:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • DAMN RIGHT :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 152, posted at 26.02.08 17:35:39 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • you wanna hop on MSN, Desert boy?

  • Comment 153, posted at 26.02.08 17:43:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • signing in now.

    Had a delivery to make quickly

  • Comment 154, posted at 26.02.08 17:51:15 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • cool

  • Comment 155, posted at 26.02.08 17:56:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • Maybe not.

    Not signing in for some reason. Troubleshooting tells me everything is fine but won’t log in for some reason. :evil:

    Will try again in a bit

  • Comment 156, posted at 26.02.08 17:58:30 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • cool
    no real hurry

  • Comment 157, posted at 26.02.08 18:04:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • frustrating though

  • Comment 158, posted at 26.02.08 18:07:48 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • I can imagine… it’s a silly little thing sometimes

  • Comment 159, posted at 26.02.08 18:12:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • Sorry I cannot agree with everything said here.

    Firstly let me be quite frank on Schalk.

    It was disgusting to see and he should have known better. He deserved his suspension and was lucky to only get slapped with 2 weeks.

    But there are situations that leads up to a normally calm person completely losing it. And it is not that difficult to see that what happened Saturday has been a long time coming – not only between Roos and the Stormers, but it is only going to get worse between teams and individuals and referees if they are continued to float under the radar or censure of discipline (refs).

    KSA, let me ask you this because you will know.

    What procedures are in place to discipline referees? Who does it and what processes are followed? Also, can you tell me what weight the captain and coach’s reports carry when assessing referees in their match reports to these committees and what, if any, letters or complaints as lodged by the Stormers last week has in these circles?

    My biggest gripe is that players and referees are not disciplined along the same guidelines or under the same structures.

    My beef is not with the system or disciplinary committees either, they need to be in place, but they need to be in place for everyone – independent committees that is, not referees being judged by other referees.

    As Schalk’s reactions deserved punishment, so does some refereeing decisions or mistakes – it has as much impact on the game if not more.

    Roos did not make a mistake in this match, he is not guilty – but again that is not my point. Point is players and Schalk deservedly gets wrapped over the knuckles for kak behavior and impulsive decisions or emotional, human implosions. Why should refs escape this? The excuse is that referees are only human and make mistakes – but hell, so are players so what is the difference?

    Only difference I can see is the one gets punished (rightfully) in Schalk’s case and the others continue in their same merry way.

    It is almost like crime – since there is no real deterrent for criminals (in punishment) there is low risk (of punishment) and it promotes lawlessness.

    Referees are professionals, they should prepare themselves to the best of their ability to not make mistakes even if that means personal investment or after hours practice or gym work to ensure they are at their best at all times – for now there seems to be no consequence for mediocrity, which is why it will continue.

    Why is it that Mark Lawrence, who in my mind is streets ahead of any Super 14 ref at the moment can have such great games, but others suck? The responsibility should be put back in the referees court saying, shape up, or ship out – and for that they need the same discipline structures and committees put in place that exist for players.

  • Comment 160, posted at 26.02.08 18:58:20 by MorneN Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • Now how did i know it was PA who posted this comment before even reading it. :lol:

    Okay i am gonna read it quickly, okay maybe not quickly.

  • Comment 161, posted at 26.02.08 19:05:50 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • PA

    I can only speak from experience which only goes as high as being on the Durban panel in SA. In the AGRFU it works very differently.

    We in Natal would have so many assesors and they would watch the refs throughout the year. Come the end of the year you would get promoted or demoted dependant on the reports submitted by the Assesors.

    And As far as I am aware it works in a similar way at SARU level, my reason for believeing this is that they announce their panels annually and i have not as yet seen anyone other than Linston Manuals being “removed” from a panel as such.

    That is the way it works as far as RSA goes. At the lower levels I believe there are no routine reports issued by the coaches on the referee who reffed tham that weekend I actually believe that to be the case at the S14 level as well.

    I suspect the coaches will only submit reports when they have complaints.

  • Comment 162, posted at 26.02.08 19:14:17 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • In the AGRFU it is different though.

    the assesing works on the same principal but becasue of the loooong distances between matches the assesors do minimal travelling. So as a result of that each team is requested to submit a report on their referee for that weekend. This is then used for the purposes of finding “problem” refs or good refs.

  • Comment 163, posted at 26.02.08 19:16:46 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • I am all for a ref getting punished for his transgressions and DO believe that it DOES happen but it CANNOT be very effective at the moment.

    How many SA refs are there on the S14 panel. 10 – 12 Lets say 4 of them have back to back bad games and you have to “drop” them. There JUST ARE NOT enough refs to just replace them at will.

  • Comment 164, posted at 26.02.08 19:19:05 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Add to that the fact that our top refs Marius Jonker, Jonathan Kaplan. Mark Lawrence, Craig Joubert will ref 6N matches during the S14 and our crop to pick from is even smaller.

  • Comment 165, posted at 26.02.08 19:21:44 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • independent committees that is, not referees being judged by other referees.

    I am afraid my answer to this would be an emphatic NO!.

    You cannot ask me to go and coach a VC team.

    You cannot ask a “Joe Public” to asses a referee. Some PLAYERS finsih theri careers and are still not aware of all the intricate little laws.

    A case in point is that Law against the cavalry charge at a penalty kick.

    A few years back in Qatar I had a case of a team having a penalty 5m out from the opposition tryline. They decided to play it quickly and with the scrumhalf tapping the ball he had a prop who had come running from 15m back receive the ball and go over to score what they thought was a try. I disallowed it because the prop had been running before the ball had been tapped, in effect doing a ONE man calary charge.

    After the match both the coaches over a friendly beer with me did not believe that I was right until I sent them the relevant portion of the law via email a few days later.

    There are toooo many intricacies in rugby Laws to let “joe public” asses a referee. The ONLY way you get to a level where you have enough Law knowledge and “feel” for the environment is if you have BEEN a ref.

  • Comment 166, posted at 26.02.08 19:30:08 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • KSA,

    I do not for one second want Joe Public to investigate and/or discipline referees, you can just tune into Super Rugby on Monday evenings to listen to the knowledge 90% of Joe public has on the game and its laws!!!

    Seriously though, who of the disciplinary committee members (the ones that fine or suspend players) has ever played rugby at S14 or test level, hell even provincial level? So the same argument applies.

    Instances or transgressions are judged on what is in front of them, and then applying the letter of the law, as was the case with Schalk. I see nothing wrong with this though – so why not the same for referees?

    My suggestion or post definately does not imply Kangeroo court type hearings – that is stupid. But it does imply that referees be judged and disciplined, exactly like players do.

    I hear you on the amount of referees, but I am sorry I dont buy that, that is a referee problem they need to sort out – it is no excuse for incompetence.

    Also, I know your example is from a level not quite S14, but why should ref’s only be assessed or judged annually? Why not after every game? Their influence on a game is of such a nature that it is imperative we get the best all the time – they can change careers of players – it is no small matter but it is handled like one.

  • Comment 167, posted at 26.02.08 19:52:00 by MorneN Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • I’m with Morne here. Time these guys were taken out of their ivory tower. Why are more people not becoming referrees, though?

  • Comment 168, posted at 26.02.08 19:58:54 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • It’s a bit of a pity, though, that the Schalk incident is the one used to highlight this issue, though, as in this case the ref did absolutely nothing wrong. Burger acting like a petulant child is the real problem in this case

  • Comment 169, posted at 26.02.08 20:02:52 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Disappointed in Schalk to say the least! Expected more professionalism from him.

  • Comment 170, posted at 26.02.08 20:04:44 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • PA

    Just to clarify even though i am sure you undersand it is just for others who are reading.

    Referess DO get assesed every week at the S14 level, each match has an assesor appointed. The changes to what panel he appears on is USUALLY (There are obvious exceptions) only made once a year though.

  • Comment 171, posted at 26.02.08 20:08:18 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • KSA – but you can’t undo a really bad decision on the day. I know you could never have a panel change a decision after the fact – but it would be nice to know that they will be fined or take some form of punishment (like having darts thrown at them) should they make a really bad decision that ultimately costs a side the win.

  • Comment 172, posted at 26.02.08 20:12:53 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • :mrgreen: :oops:

    Darts would hurt though :oops:

    And would the amount be dependant on how badly you messed up. :oops:

  • Comment 173, posted at 26.02.08 20:23:16 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    Okay – maybe darts was a bit harsh a word. Maybe a fine?

  • Comment 174, posted at 26.02.08 20:24:48 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • :smile: :wink:

    I have put up an article that is some food for thought and i would be interested to see the suggestions. May actually be some good one hopefully.

  • Comment 175, posted at 26.02.08 20:27:28 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Just went and read it – nicely put! I suppose it is something that will always be open to debate but be hard to find a solution for.

  • Comment 176, posted at 26.02.08 20:34:47 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     

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