robdylan

Pace is the new black


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Super 14 on 29 Feb 2008 at 13:18
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Jake White, wherever you are, stop reading now. You ain’t gonna like what follows!

There’s a definite trend emerging in the Super 14, after just two rounds, a trend inspired by the ELVs and one that is likely to forever alter the makeup of the traditional loose trio. This trend can be summed up in the following Biblical-style commandment: “Though shalt not pick slow loose forwards!”

Traditional thinking allows for a loose trio with one smaller, quicker man with excellent foraging skills. He is the fetcher, or open-side flanker. He is first to the breakdown and aims to win a turnover, by means foul or fair, or to secure the ball if his teammate took it in. If he can’t win the ball back, he slows it down for long enough to ensure the rest of his teammates can organise themselves defensively before the opposition can play on. Various coaches in the modern era, most notably Jake White, have called the validity of this role in question, arguing that there is no need for a specialist open-sider and that all loose forwards need to be tall and heavy.

What is becoming clearer under the new laws is that quick ruck ball is essential, far more so given the higher pace of the game. No more can the requirement for a fetcher at 6 be questioned; the new arguement is that a fetcher is needed at the base of the scrum too. If he has a good step and a safe pair of hands, he will be more valuable behind the scrum than on the side of it. What is key, though, is this dynamic duo of ball-hungry speedsters being able to get away from the scrum FAST. Remember that everyone else has to be 5 meters further back than before.

What this means is that sides can no longer afford the luxury of a slow loose forward anywhere in their loose trio. Why do you think all of yesterday’s heroes, the Venters, Smiths, Wannenbergs, Collinses and Lauaki’s (thank God there’s only one) have looked so pedestrian thus far? The fact is, the traditional “basher” in the loose trio, the retreaded lock played variously at 7 or 8 with the sole intention of providing “go forward” at the point of breakdown, will find himself in the rugby wilderness as the new laws take shape. There is only one route left for him, and that is to move into the second row. Yesterday’s slow flanks will be tomorrow’s quick locks and the mobility of the tight five will increase as the game speeds up further.

Yesterday’s oft unappreciated fetcher – those men with a suitable combination of guile, lots of pace and good ground skills, will find themselves coming more into demand as they are picked not only at open-side flank, but at number 8 as well. Rassie Erasmus is a step ahead of the game here, seeing Luke Watson and Schalk Brits as number 8s. Rassie doesn’t have enough pace in his trio as a whole, though. Schalk Burger is also unlikely to prove the sort of open-sider who will flourish under the new laws either. Expect to see a Stormers trio comprising Watson at 6, Burger at 7 and Brits at 8 before the competition ends this year. Robbie Diack will prove ineffective as ever – even more so under the new laws.

So what about the blind-side flank? My good friend MornéN, who helped me with the thinking behind this piece, has long held the belief that a good 7 should be interchangeable with a good 13 and I believe that this is even more valid now. If your seven does not have skill, pace, hands and a good step, he’s not a flank – he’s a lock. Expect to see many of the traditional number 8s today move to 7 over time as this trend becomes more apparent. Spies, Kankowski, Vermeulen… these are the men whose future lies on the blind side of the scrum. This guy should probably still be a lineout option, but trying to have three in your loose trio just doesn’t make sense anymore; there aren’t as many lineouts now, for a start. The scrum has become the most important set phase from an attacking perspective.

We’ve already discussed the Stormers. What about the other SA teams? As I’ve mentioned before, the Bulls have got it completely wrong with Danie Rossouw. The ELVs have finally put paid to any lingering delusions that he might be a loose forward. He is a lock and the best thing the Bulls could do is to pick a combination of Kuün and Stegmann at 6 & 8, with Wikus van Heerden on the blindside. When Spies returns, put him at 7 and see if Wikus is quick enough to play 8 under the new laws. Somehow I doubt it, although he has good ground skills. Pedrie Wannenberg is a lock now, so play him there, if at all.

The Cheetahs need to get Floors in at 8, with Vermeulen moving to 7. Juan Smith, it’s the second row for you, buddy, unless you prove quick enough to continue at 7. The Lions have a number of talented players who can do the job at blindside, with Juoubert and van Niekerk being the obvious contenders. They really need to get a second fetcher into the squad, though… not sure who’s waiting in the wings.

As for the Sharks, well… let’s see how Keegan Daniel goes tomorrow. Perhaps Peter de Villiers was ahead of his time all those years ago when he picked Daniel at number 8 for the SA u21s… A loose trio with Daniel at the base and Botes and Kankowski at open and blind respectively in a mouthwatering prospect and one of the quickest you’ll find.



111 Comments

  • so let’s see… who would honestly pick a loose trio comprising Downey, Blignaut and Potgieter… ;)

    Oh, that’s right… the Wildebeest

  • Comment 1, posted at 29.02.08 13:22:18 by robdylan Reply
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  • hmmm, some interesting thoughts.

    Will chew over them whilst watching the 2 games later today…

    The funny thing is that your reasoning doesn’t apply to the Crusaders (I’m not stirring) – ffs their blindside flanker is a lock. And is McCaw really that fast? But I guess that makes them even more freakish than they already are…

  • Comment 2, posted at 29.02.08 13:32:19 by Le Requinny Reply
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    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • Saders haven’t yet played against a team whose loose forwards are quicker than theirs…

  • Comment 3, posted at 29.02.08 13:36:45 by robdylan Reply
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  • very good article and isnt it interesting how you can break down all the groups under the new laws, props still need to big n strong but also fast like that evil Beast, locks need to be tall timber with pace, loosr trio as discussed in this article and 9 and 10 need to be helleva faster distributors than SA has at this point to score in this new fast paced game.

    The key will be the scrum and hhow teams use it moving forward.
    What i find interesting is who will come up with the newest and best defence pattern to stop the attack from 5m back, the supa rush with only 3 players rushing…LOL

  • Comment 4, posted at 29.02.08 13:58:45 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • 6 and 7 can sometimes seem faster than what they are if they are able to pre empt the play…ala Mc Caw and Smith, they almost guess the breakdown and rugby has become a game where you can guess the breakdown, these new rules will undo that a bit though

  • Comment 5, posted at 29.02.08 14:00:24 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • 29.02.08 14:00:24 – djgap

    Well said. We typically look at the recorded speeds of players without looking at their reading and prediction of the game. There’s probably many a flanker faster than McCaw. None have his vision.

  • Comment 6, posted at 29.02.08 14:03:32 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • i think Luke the from the mafia Watson clan is another one that can almost guess and he is an excellent true fetcher

  • Comment 7, posted at 29.02.08 14:04:40 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • excellent points, guys…

  • Comment 8, posted at 29.02.08 14:05:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • yes i doubt mc caw would beat most other 6 or 7 in a 100m sprint
    you can see he is top heavy and thus is strong at the breakdown unlike Smith who is short like supa luke and therefore closer to the ground and its hard to clean those guys out because they have their hands on the ball by the time the cleanout comes

  • Comment 9, posted at 29.02.08 14:07:46 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • For me, Danie R come mind. From Donkey Danie he improved his reading and to become Decent Danie. Thought his rugby intelligence improved vastly last year – and well done to him. Became a quality international loosie.

  • Comment 10, posted at 29.02.08 14:09:06 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • Nice article, but I dont quite agree Im afraid.

    I do agree that quicker players will be needed, but for me its about fitness, vision (like the DJ says) and organisation.

    One quick man wont be enough here – you have to have a cohesive unit so that your defence as a whole controls the pace and direction of the attack.

    Furthermore, which of the best fetchers are truly quick? Floors is not a fetcher. Botes is very quick, but other than him? Nope, its more about specialisation to me.

    You will still need your nig bruiser at 7 or 8 – but to accomodate him you will need your opensider to balance him with extra speed to the breakdown and ball-hunting. this has been done by the NZ sides for a while already.

    With the speed of the ball out of contact, what chance that your opensider will be in position to target the ball at each ruck? Very little – hence all players must be prepared to do this.

    I believe that while the opensider will have to be quicker, organisation on defence is just as important, while all players will have to able to steal/ slow the ball on the ground.

  • Comment 11, posted at 29.02.08 14:12:45 by Big Fish Reply
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    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • Danie has improved and i think he has even gotten quicker but he pulls away like an ol school diesel, just to slow and direct isnt going to be the way forward, SA players better get to grips and work on these points but they hate change and this could take 2yrs

  • Comment 12, posted at 29.02.08 14:13:56 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • Floors needs to play from the start, this supa sub thing isnt going to work for the Cheetahs, he is as close as they have to a fetcher and with more game time will become a tru fetcher, also very quick when they have turnover ball and is a very good one on one attacker (7′s skills), also never misses tackles, he tackles well above his weight and does it well.
    has a good pass from 7′s so use him, he will win ball and score tries

  • Comment 13, posted at 29.02.08 14:19:13 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • i also think 12 and 13 will have to become top class breakdown specialists as they will be close to what will be the new breakdown point, more the channel between them i guess, just my guess though

    under this style 10 will become less of a general and more of a link player, also just my guess

  • Comment 14, posted at 29.02.08 14:21:43 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • Well as long as all this fast running and passing means we will score some tries tomorrow – I am all for it! Really don’t enjoy a game riddled with penalties!

  • Comment 15, posted at 29.02.08 14:25:21 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • riddled with free kicks but then SA teams should scrum till they get to grips with the pace and the fitness needed because clearly they not anywhere near that right now so slow it down, they will find ways under a clever coach to play these rules their style
    i must admit watching the 6 nations over the weekend was nicer to watch, rather strange because everyone loves pretty rugby but yet structure is such a big part of rugby union with 3 fatties 2 logs 3 hardcore 1 shorty 2 glamour boys and 4 people standing doing nothing
    a game for all unlike other sports

  • Comment 16, posted at 29.02.08 14:28:52 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • :grin: @ djgap.

    Deon Carstens once told me that the backs were the “glamour boys” and the props were the guys who sat at the back of the class. Not anymore!

    I was surprised at the Sharks lack of fitness after the first game – always thought our team was one of the fittest!

  • Comment 17, posted at 29.02.08 14:31:12 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • well i was explaining the Bulls because their 12 cant catch or pass, i think he should beg Wayne Julies to get better and take his place rather

  • Comment 18, posted at 29.02.08 14:34:30 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • djgap – he isn’t tackling too well lately either. Don’t know what has happened to him. Think he shouldn’t have been in the Bok team for the WC. There were much better players than him to choose from.

  • Comment 19, posted at 29.02.08 14:36:57 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • lets be honest there were better players but that WC group had their thing going on and it worked, still dont know if we wouldve won that thing if the best had to play the best like top 5 teams but i would like supersport to show a replay of the SA v Eng pool match just for the crap of it, that was a beautiful think that Fri night

  • Comment 20, posted at 29.02.08 14:39:57 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • For sure – enjoyed that match – the final wasn’t that easy, but then that’s what you would expect from a final.

  • Comment 21, posted at 29.02.08 14:41:41 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • 29.02.08 14:31:12 – Nessa

    I believe it went along the lines of “The backline fairies get all the press while the fatties get pies” or something like that. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 22, posted at 29.02.08 14:42:35 by provincejoulekkading Reply
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  • the fatties cant eat pies anymore, 110kg with 7% body fat is an amazing athlete

  • Comment 23, posted at 29.02.08 14:45:06 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • I realise that some won’t agree with this comment, and it may be a bit off-topic, but to me it all comes down to mindset once again (so sick of saying that about the SA sides).

    From the games i’ve seen so far, even the Blues and Crusaders have been losing a reasonable amount of ball to turnovers (The ‘Saders loose forwards aren’t exactly the quickest). The difference to me has been the use of the ball after winning it (whether by turnover or breakdown point free kick). The Crusaders and Blues (and indeed all the NZ sides) run the ball as if they’re playing a game of touch rugby, whereas the SA sides don’t look like they know what to do with the ball. It’s almost as if it’s instinctive for the New Zealanders, where we seem to play to instructions all the time.

    I remember one of the Crusaders’ team saying in an interview once, “Once we get on the field, we just play what’s in front of us, we just play the situation.”
    Until they allow the players the freedom to express themselves, and start teaching the South African players to think for themselves on the field, these guys will always be light years ahead of us. Dick Muir is the only coach thus far who has shown he can do this. Heyneke Meyer also started to loosen the hold in his last years at the Bulls.

  • Comment 24, posted at 29.02.08 14:45:30 by Ghost10 Reply

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  • Prov – I think those days are changing.

  • Comment 25, posted at 29.02.08 14:46:18 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • But then again, i’m one of those “fairies” :mrgreen:

  • Comment 26, posted at 29.02.08 14:46:59 by Ghost10 Reply

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  • Can someone explain to me why the Sharks are losing so many balls in the ruck?

  • Comment 27, posted at 29.02.08 14:47:22 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • also SA players grow up running over people and NZ learn rugga playing on a wet beach so its in the building blocks, also the intro of maoris in numbers to the game in NZ has made their rugga very nice to watch at pace, mayeb we need some brown people to come to the fore

  • Comment 28, posted at 29.02.08 14:49:44 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • the fatties cant eat pies anymore, 110kg with 7% body fat is an amazing athlete

    29.02.08 14:45:06 – djgap

    So why ya quoting my physical stats? :grin:

  • Comment 29, posted at 29.02.08 14:51:12 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • its too humid in Durban and the ball is hot and wet and so are their hands, they will do better away from home

  • Comment 30, posted at 29.02.08 14:51:26 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • For sure Nessa, was just trying to quote the old saying.

    Spoeky playing the situation is one thing but dont for a second think that the blues and crusaders etc are just running around and are so damned good that gaps magically open in front of them (ok that may happen to carter and a few other in clubs :razz: )
    They are actually running some well drilled and well thought out backline moves.
    If a chance does open up for one of them to back themselves they go for it but hey,they create most of the chances anyway.

  • Comment 31, posted at 29.02.08 14:51:40 by provincejoulekkading Reply
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  • :lol: saffa you have openly posted your stats on other sites, those arent yours bru :cool:

  • Comment 32, posted at 29.02.08 14:52:33 by provincejoulekkading Reply
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  • sorry saffa bok i didnt even know there were stats here, just knew that from reading through player records and seeing these guys up close, they have no fat

  • Comment 33, posted at 29.02.08 14:52:51 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • Actually is more like 70kg and 110% body fat

  • Comment 34, posted at 29.02.08 14:52:53 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • We working on the mass thing at the moment PJLD. VRIETING brown carbs to say the least

  • Comment 35, posted at 29.02.08 14:53:58 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • Djgap – but they train in those conditions every day – don’t think it is a good enough excuse – and how come the teams they have played against aren’t dropping the ball? They are playing in the same conditions.

    I was really hoping our ball skills would have improved this year – but they don’t seem to have. Let’s hope, as you say, it will be better in Pretoria tomorrow.

  • Comment 36, posted at 29.02.08 14:55:20 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • have you see SA teams practise, they play play contact, they need to practise with real bloody hits not that tackle bag i will step back 2 steps when you hit business

  • Comment 37, posted at 29.02.08 14:57:40 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • Nessa,

    I reckon the Sharks are gonna look much better tomorrow. Early season rustiness. Important thing is they picking up the wins. Give it another match or two and they’ll start looking a much slicker. There’s just to much talent for it not to happen

  • Comment 38, posted at 29.02.08 14:57:53 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • Venter is too slow to get to the breakdown on time and Kanko has no ball-winning skillz. Simple as that.

  • Comment 39, posted at 29.02.08 15:00:04 by robdylan Reply
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  • Saffa – hope so. They look so good when they score tries and pass out wide. The ball didn’t seem to get past Waylon last week – I could kill him.

  • Comment 40, posted at 29.02.08 15:00:34 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • RD – I would rather have benched AJ than Jacques. He has been looking really sluggish.

  • Comment 41, posted at 29.02.08 15:01:22 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • PJLD… I’m not saying that they don’t have set moves, because u can’t be a professional team without having those moves in your bag. What I’m saying is that in a loose game, who would you rather be backing? A team who plays instictively (Crusaders), or a team who runs straight into players (Bulls)? The problem with the players over here is that they don’t read their own team-mates. Russell, Paulse, Habana, Steyn are among a handful of SA players who can read the game if it gets loose.
    In knockout games, I’m all for percentage play, because it’s win or nothing. But when you’re going for tries and bonus points, you’ve got to be a bit unpredictable.
    With these tap and goes, there’s no way you can run a set backline move every time… there’s just not enough time for everyone to get into position. That’s why, like DJGAP says, the SA teams should play to their strengths for now (ie. scrums or lineouts), until they get used to the tap and goes.

  • Comment 42, posted at 29.02.08 15:03:07 by Ghost10 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • then they should play touch, no breakdown, give it to Freddie, he can show them

  • Comment 43, posted at 29.02.08 15:03:09 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • 29.02.08 14:45:30 – Ghost10

    “Until they allow the players the freedom to express themselves, and start teaching the South African players to think for themselves on the field….Dick Muir is the only coach thus far who has shown he can do this….”

    Its been a pretty ugly and largely ineffective expression so far…more of a Tubthumping as opposed to the Saders and Blues dance of the Valkyrie…really hope we can blame the humidity.

  • Comment 44, posted at 29.02.08 15:03:51 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • Botes does lots of the fecthing work innit. Lets see how Keegan goes. I have full faith in the Sharks.

  • Comment 45, posted at 29.02.08 15:03:53 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • agree that AJ is the guy who deserved the chop, not Botes.

    JB is clearly down on confidence, though, so maybe a game or two coming off the woodwork will be a good thing.

  • Comment 46, posted at 29.02.08 15:08:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • The Sharks will definitely come good this year… Dick Muir is smart enough to know that you don’t peak this early in the tournament. 2 from 2 so far without playing well at all, is a mark of a good team. If I remember correctly, they started exactly the same way last year. Watch them go to New Zealand and Oz and win more than their fair share.

  • Comment 47, posted at 29.02.08 15:08:34 by Ghost10 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • only the bulls still believe that they can run over an islander from the pacific, have you seen those guys up close, they tree stumps before they workout, they have necks like an ox, actually i think their head goes strait into their bodies, anyway enuf of them but those narrow minds in Pretoria still think ons moer oor hom and then they go back….lightbulb guys, hasnt it gone off yet

  • Comment 48, posted at 29.02.08 15:09:14 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • Ghost

    You are SPOT on. Our schoolboy rugby is all about brute force. Why run around the man or into the gap when you can run over him? South Africans are generally fairly big physically and try to use their physique to bash through defences rather than being creative.

    The Kiwi’s and Ozzies do the BASICS 5 times better than the South Africans. If it wasn’t for our guys hearts and passion for playing for their country and teams we would suffer much more.

    When players get to national and international level, they should not be learning the basics, these should be ingrained in them and second nature. Its akin to Brazilian footballers not being able to trap or pass a ball. You need to be able to master these basics before all the FLASH stuff will come off!

  • Comment 49, posted at 29.02.08 15:09:23 by Villie Reply
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  • Good article Rob.

    I agree with the general sentiment that the game needs faster loosies now, but would venture to add that you need the fitness to maintain that speed throughout the match.

    Let’s use AJ as an example he is not nearly as fast as he used to be, but it is not that obvious in the first 20 or even 40. but in the second 40 he is just not up to it anymore.

    As one of the guys above said. McCaw is not the fastest out there. i will add to that but he is CERTAINLY one of the guys who maintains his pace (albeit a fraction slower than some) throught the game.

    In summary pace is essential but I feel the emphasis should be on sustained pace rather than sound barrier pace.

  • Comment 50, posted at 29.02.08 15:10:19 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Kanko is excellent on attack in the loose, typical 7′s player

  • Comment 51, posted at 29.02.08 15:10:25 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • I reckon an in form Botes will revel under the new rules. At the top of his game, his work rate is phenominal. Would loved to have seen his match stats from last years tournie.

  • Comment 52, posted at 29.02.08 15:10:27 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • #

    Actually is more like 70kg and 110% body fat
    29.02.08 14:52:53 – saffa_bok

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 53, posted at 29.02.08 15:10:35 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • ok – sweet. So you guys are adding attributes that I missed… having a quick mind and superior fitness… it’s all good

  • Comment 54, posted at 29.02.08 15:11:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • Nessa Rob.

    I don’t know so much if it was the wrong thing to keep AJ in the Starting XV.

    As my sentiments above explain, I think he will be good/fast enough in the first 20-40.

    In that game tomorrow there will be a LOT of softening up going on and the team who is behind will have a hard time coming back.

    AJ is not flash gordon enough to come on and make an impact. Botes is.

    AJ will be there for the 1st 40 when the hard grind is on, Botes will be there to make the difference in the second 40.

  • Comment 55, posted at 29.02.08 15:15:17 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • modern day rugga player should have the quick mind as std issue, game too fast for stoooopid people hey

  • Comment 56, posted at 29.02.08 15:16:27 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • 29.02.08 15:10:35 – wpw

    And i’m not even 175cm in height – making me the perfect Stormers player!

  • Comment 57, posted at 29.02.08 15:18:09 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • Where are you’s??? i am chasing you all over the site! LOL :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 58, posted at 29.02.08 15:18:24 by Ice Reply
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  • :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 59, posted at 29.02.08 15:19:44 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • 29.02.08 14:51:40 – provincejoulekkading

    So true pjld – these teams arent playing on instinct guys! They practise those drills for hours!

    I still maintain that fitness, organisation and specialisation are massively important.

    Time to flow Joe.

    Enjoy the weekend all!

  • Comment 60, posted at 29.02.08 15:20:00 by Big Fish Reply
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    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • KSA – do you think they will take AJ off in the second half? I must say Botes has been a bit out of sorts – maybe he will play in the 2nd half.

  • Comment 61, posted at 29.02.08 15:20:22 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Remember Sharks first 2 games were played at home in Durban. Durban in Feb is uncomfortably hot and humid, making it difficult to maintain a high intensity for a full 80 minutes as well as making handling exceptionally difficult. That is why our bench was so important…especially against the Stormers. The guys coming on made the difference to us winning the game.

    I really believe that playing at Loftus will bring out the best in our guys and we can look forward to a bonus point for tries!!

  • Comment 62, posted at 29.02.08 15:21:00 by Villie Reply
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  • Villie – I know, but as I said earlier – the teams we were playing against didn’t seem to have that problem. But, as you say, it can only get better – and that’s the good news!

  • Comment 63, posted at 29.02.08 15:22:48 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Hey Ice – this is different to the Sharks site where everyone sits and blogs on the one article for hours. Things move here – I disappeared for 5 minutes and everyone had forgotten about my question already.

  • Comment 64, posted at 29.02.08 15:23:39 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Nessa

    That is my suspicion, BUT (and this has JUST come to mind) this is the Bulls we are playing. (No insult intended)

    But against the Bulls AJ’s pace may still be sufficient.

  • Comment 65, posted at 29.02.08 15:23:46 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Villie… I agree with you (and I like the football analogy!). In any sport, u get taught to repeat the basics and eventually they become second nature. Unfortunately, our schools over here seem to use English teachers (who would rather be anywhere else) to coach the age-level teams. We dominate at under 19 and 21 level because physically we’re on another level to most teams. Once they catch up to us physically though, we don’t have much else to turn to. It’s sad, because I think that besides the Islanders and American athletes, South Africans are the most physically gifted athletes. The Aussies have to “make” their athletes, so they should always be playing catchup to us, not the other way round. It’s horrifying that a nation with less than half the population of our country can be so much more dominant than us in pretty much every other sport.

  • Comment 66, posted at 29.02.08 15:24:00 by Ghost10 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • have a goodie and i hope the Sharks n Stormers win this weekend
    cheers

  • Comment 67, posted at 29.02.08 15:24:30 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • cheers djgap… thanks for some great insights

  • Comment 68, posted at 29.02.08 15:26:28 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • ok so we need clever coaches who dont mind a few smaller faster athletes in their team and then we on our way

  • Comment 69, posted at 29.02.08 15:26:33 by djgap Reply

    djgapUnder 19 player
     
  • Cheers guys & girls… :mrgreen:

    Will be at Newlands 2nite… :twisted:

    GO SHARKS !!! :razz:

  • Comment 70, posted at 29.02.08 15:27:05 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • KSA – you are spot on.

    By picking Pakslae and dropping Stegmann, the Bulls have just nullified any advantage they would have had from us persisting with slow AJ. Daniel and Kanko will be the two quickest forwards on the field, followed by Wikus who’s a pretty distant third.

  • Comment 71, posted at 29.02.08 15:28:30 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • seeya djgap… enjoy the rugga later

  • Comment 72, posted at 29.02.08 15:28:40 by Ghost10 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Geez Ghost you speak my language. It could almost be me speaking! :grin:

    Totally agree with you about the Aussies….they are competitive and a lot of the time dominant because of the quality of their coaches.

    It is also down to attitude and commitment. Our guys took a long long time to come to terms with professionalism. They were still wanting to live the amateur lifestyle but reap the financial rewards of professional sport.

  • Comment 73, posted at 29.02.08 15:30:05 by Villie Reply
    Competition Winner
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  • Rob

    Kanko has to catch the ball first!! Only then can he use his pace!! :lol:

  • Comment 74, posted at 29.02.08 15:31:03 by Villie Reply
    Competition Winner
    VillieCurrie Cup player
     
  • Ah a beautiful relationship has struck-up….Villie and Ghost…just remember to keep it tidy guys we are talking rugby and not some moffie game ;)

  • Comment 75, posted at 29.02.08 15:34:28 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • AGREEEEEEE VILLIIE!!!

  • Comment 76, posted at 29.02.08 15:34:29 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Author
    IceAssistant coach
     
  • Kanko will be ok… moving him to 7 will help, of course…

  • Comment 77, posted at 29.02.08 15:37:11 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • Come back Villie and Ghost….. I was just joking!!!!!

  • Comment 78, posted at 29.02.08 15:40:57 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • ja DP!

  • Comment 79, posted at 29.02.08 15:41:39 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Villie, that’s so true about the attitude. Don’t know if you watched Boots and All last nite, but they showed an interview with Robbie Deans. Such a humble and modest guy despite his success, and I just felt that SA coaches could all take a leaf out of his book. He seems to embrace the new laws as something positive, whereas the majority of our players and coaches seem so opposed to them (or any changes for that matter).

    They say that “winning masks a multitude of sins”, and that’s what I think the World Cup did. We were never as good as we thought we were, we only won because Jake White is an exceptional tournament coach and he prepared very thoroughly and professionally. By winning the World Cup, we just assumed that our teams would dominate from here on end, but it doesn’t work that way in sport.

    I always remember the old Liverpool teams when I think about this, because as soon as they won a championship, they were already thinking about how to win the next one. That’s why I was so disappointed when Heyneke Meyer left the Bulls. That team could have become a dynasty.

  • Comment 80, posted at 29.02.08 15:42:18 by Ghost10 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Oi Dave Piss……don’t be like that!! :mad:

    Just seen your apology so I will forget it! :grin:

  • Comment 81, posted at 29.02.08 15:43:01 by Villie Reply
    Competition Winner
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  • LOL DivePass… don’t worry, i’m not sensitive like that :wink:

  • Comment 82, posted at 29.02.08 15:44:04 by Ghost10 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Humble apologises… I played the men and not the ball…but its the new ELVs, they confuse me.

  • Comment 83, posted at 29.02.08 15:47:43 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • Rob

    I’m sure Kanko will be fine. I was semi jesting about his hands.

    I’m really looking forward to seeing Keegan tomorrow as I was one that believed he deserved an extended run in the starting XV. Now he has his chance …lets see what he makes of it!

  • Comment 84, posted at 29.02.08 15:53:20 by Villie Reply
    Competition Winner
    VillieCurrie Cup player
     
  • Great chatting again guys and gals, i’m off now… have a great weekend and enjoy all the rugby

  • Comment 85, posted at 29.02.08 15:53:20 by Ghost10 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • cheers ghost… here’s to 7/7 for us ;)

  • Comment 86, posted at 29.02.08 16:01:04 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • ou sont tout le monde?

    :?:

  • Comment 87, posted at 29.02.08 16:05:55 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • I think Collins is going to make you regret mentioning him as slow…..

  • Comment 88, posted at 29.02.08 16:12:09 by Sauce Reply
    Author
    Worcestershire SauceCurrie Cup player
     
  • je suis ici, Quinny.

    Sauce… we’ll see ;)

  • Comment 89, posted at 29.02.08 16:13:59 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • http://www.lequipe.fr/Fonctions/services_equipemag_michalak.html

    Check this out Rob, some good clips (Michalak focused) on Sharks training sessions. Bliksem, never knew the frogs were “Michalak-watchiung” to this extent :shock:

    Also I see they are talking about Bakkies getting a salary of 400,000 euros should he join…seems like the deal is still progress, yet with a few “hiccups” (which we all know about)

  • Comment 90, posted at 29.02.08 16:14:26 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • all the wrestling looks a little gay though…

    :oops:

  • Comment 91, posted at 29.02.08 16:17:37 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • €400k! Where do I sign up?

  • Comment 92, posted at 29.02.08 16:21:51 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • ha ha! TG’s in that first vid

  • Comment 93, posted at 29.02.08 16:22:19 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • who is teh oke that Freddie’s rasslin with?

  • Comment 94, posted at 29.02.08 16:26:57 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • it seems Bakkies (Toulon) has 2 French lawyers now representing him/them…they are saying that he will join on 1 April for the rest of the season, & has an option for a further 2 seasons.

    ja whatever. Why would he join for 1 month, effectively burning his bridges with SA rugby? The manner in which this saga has drawn out, he’ll be lucky – if he joins Toulon under the circumstances – to play for the Boks again.

    But for 400K euros a year, well, now it suddenly clear why he so desperately wants to leave… :roll: :roll:

  • Comment 95, posted at 29.02.08 16:31:53 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • I think its Pat Cilliers Rob. Can’t be Frans…

  • Comment 96, posted at 29.02.08 16:32:19 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • nah – not enough hair for Pat. Also doubt he would be rasslin on that knee right now…

  • Comment 97, posted at 29.02.08 16:36:21 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • gotta love those little blue shorts ;)

  • Comment 98, posted at 29.02.08 16:38:04 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • yeah that’s what makes me uncertain…

    unless… its Downey?
    Who are the blonds in the squad? :?:

  • Comment 99, posted at 29.02.08 16:39:17 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • You going to get a pair Rob ;) ?

    Sure you can get someone to post you a pair of Mr Price blue short knock-offs…postage will probably cost more than the shorts – maybe set-you back £5 max in total :cool:

  • Comment 100, posted at 29.02.08 16:40:27 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • lol, is it just me or does the trainer seem to be shouting at JP in every training video…?

    “wie ekke lui, nooit bru”

  • Comment 101, posted at 29.02.08 16:41:25 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • :)

    it cant be Downer either… he must be at least 15cm taller than Fred… and a lot bigger. The guy in the vid seems more or less the same size.

    Might be a job for MM, if only we could figure out where he’s hiding.

  • Comment 102, posted at 29.02.08 16:43:48 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • quinny – you speak French.

    Please tell me what the hell is going on here?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qNYVFQDSTs

  • Comment 103, posted at 29.02.08 16:45:56 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • lol, I’m not fluent though, better with reading ’cause I struggle a little with the accents & speed in which they talk…

    will give it a shot though

  • Comment 104, posted at 29.02.08 16:50:31 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • merci

  • Comment 105, posted at 29.02.08 16:55:05 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • ok, they speak a bit too fast, lendemain svp! but this is what I made out, you should ask cab to give it a shot, he’d be used to the speed in which they talk.

    its an ad…it’s trying to be a bit clever – “the extistentialism of the post-modern rugby player?)” I don’t really get it though.

    I can’t quite make out what he says to Fred at the start, it sounds something like “pourquoi unique noir”? why uniquely black? then Fred says why not, it’s a big tradition. Maybe referring to his move to the Sharks? Then the other oke talks about Fred being a star there, it’ll be his planetarium, then he asks Fred if he can play guitar, Fred says yes, than plays. The other oke than cuts in & says that’s it’s too complicated, play something simpler. So Fred dumbs it down, & the other guy acts like 1 strum is the most beautiful thing he’s ever heard. He asks Fred what it’s called, & he says either “s’ami” or “c’est un mil” (not quite sure, I though it was the first but it doesn’t make sense). The other oke than says he can call himself “le mille shark” & be a superstar… Fred strums again, & the oke says he’s going to cry it’s so touching.

    Can’t say I get it, I’m probably losing something in translation.

  • Comment 106, posted at 29.02.08 17:17:31 by Le Requinny Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • an interesting and well-reasoned article, which i don’t altogether buy.

    There is still the need for balance with explosive players. What the ELV’s do appear to do is favour endurance-based skilled teams like the Force, but they won’t beat the Saders or Blues who have a power tight 5 and explosive ballcarriers in their backrow some of whom are converted locks. It might signal the end of power props, but i believe that would reduce the varied styles of union and will be of deteriment not only to SA but the NH teams too. It will be an advtantage to oz, but the game’s growth will come from the NH and argentina, all power packs.

  • Comment 107, posted at 29.02.08 17:46:51 by cab Reply

    cabVodacom Cup player
     
  • also remember JW wanted his loosies to be athletic and rangey, kind of why Kanko and Spies were selected so quickly. Spies is injured, but if you are referring to Danie Rossouw, he has been outstanding for over a year now (recall NH tour), but also was the loosie that got out to the wing to put Cueto’s foot into touch.

  • Comment 108, posted at 29.02.08 18:17:27 by cab Reply

    cabVodacom Cup player
     
  • Actually even on the prop front, he was a big fan of Carstens, who’s the fittest prop in SA, CJ and Jannie also very mobile. What he did do, was ensure that the power element was restored and also experience so that there was no more men v boys, which proved to be spot on. reckon he’d adapt to the new laws easily and said SA were well placed to do so.

  • Comment 109, posted at 29.02.08 18:22:44 by cab Reply

    cabVodacom Cup player
     
  • Deon once told me he much preferred playing loosie – it gave him more freedom to move around. Just think he liked scoring tries myself!

  • Comment 110, posted at 29.02.08 18:24:56 by Nessa Reply

    NessaCurrie Cup player
     
  • sa teams lacks imagination and their fitness levels needs work

  • Comment 111, posted at 01.03.08 17:05:16 by jarsonx Reply
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