Searching For Answers

Written by Mike Marnewick (FlashFulstrip)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks on 20 Jul 2008 at 11:03
Tagged with : , , , , , , ,

Having taken note of some comments, and having taken a step backwards and given time for the loss to sink in, and then get over it, I thought it would be a good idea to look at the current set-up and try to find some reasoning behind the Sharks lack of success (if you can call 60% wins unsuccessful), and came up with a few areas I think we need to take note of.Personnel: Someone like Jannie du Plessis should be offering a lot more and I find myself hugely disappointed in his lack of impact, as a Springbok and a member of the successful Cheetahs side that won 3 Currie Cup finals. That’s one player and just an example, although he’s one of many. I think it is time to start jettisoning some players. Stefan Terblanche has long been a favourite of mine, but he has overstayed his welcome. He used to be the best player of the high ball in South Africa. Yesterday he launched (yet another) high ball, chased it and ran past the opposition catcher without A. trying to regather or B. put the player under pressure. Our wings have been totally left out of the cold all season because he either kicks high balls or tries to run through three players.

Henno Mentz offers absolutely nothing to the team and if he was indeed dropped for Wes Bodmer to try wake him up, it didn’t work. Plum, please drop him back to Club rugby, pay off his contract and look to the future. This guy is dead-weight. Waylon Murray either needs a rest or a wake-up call. He’s a classy player, but it’s deserted him right now. Give him a break.

Injuries: This has obviously been out of everyone’s control, although rushing Brad Barritt back for the Valke game was in my mind a very inadvisable act that back-fired. He needs time to get his body back in shape and he’s too important to risk long term injury. We’ve also been hard-hit without Rory Kockott and Jean Deysel. Pat Cilliers could also light a fire under Jannie’s butt to show that there is competition for places.

Springboks: It doesn’t help having lost so many players to the Bok cause – compared to the Lions and Cheetahs, we’re really disrupted and again this is no-one’s fault and planning for this eventuality perhaps rests on Straeuli’s shoulders, or the coaching staff. To the latters’ credit, Chris Jordaan has been a revelation and my sincere hope is that they stick with him. I believe he is a fullback at club level, and so why not give Stefan a break and try him there. Especially when we get Odwa and JP back. But there aren’t world class players hanging around waiting to get snapped up by a Union who needs players.Coaching staff: There has been some talk about the quality of our coaching staff and their inability to get the best out of their players. Our backs are not breaking the line and they are not scoring tries. I believe this comes down more to the quality of player we have than how they are coached. We are missing Barritt, that’s glaringly obvious. Michalak did nothing special against the Cheetahs, and Dumond has been ordinary. Again, this cannot be blamed on the coaching staff. Andries Strauss is good without being spectacular and we’ve seen how Waylon Murray won’t pass and only runs cross-field. My feeling here is that another youngster in Riaan Swanepoel needs to be given an extended run at outside centre; he’s big strong and pretty fast. Even if that means we have to put Waylon on the wing.Forwards: despite scoring most of the tries, they are not operating as they should. An effective side is filled with individuals who do their jobs. I have seen too many front row forwards on the wing and inside backs cleaning out at rucks – this is not how rugby should be played, and I fail to understand if this is what the coaches are trying to do – create versatile players – or the players simply doing their own thing.Finally, for me the greatest issue – Leadership. Sadly, experience does not necessarily equate into leaders, and of the latter, we have none. Experience we have aplenty – Muller, Botes, du Plessis, van den Berg, Michalak, Terblanche, but none of them seems to be leading the side. Barritt is too quiet, although a wise player, and I think many of our problems rest on the shoulders of an issue that we have no real control over.

Until we get our Boks back and have class and experience (and leadership) back, we cannot simply keep plodding along, winning the easy games and losing the tough ones. A champion side would have won yesterday and until we have the manpower, we cannot hope to get into the position of a home semi/final with the current side.

In conclusion, I think the time is ripe, right now, to make some drastic and changes. Drop the deadwood, give the youngsters a chance, don’t overplay your stars or play too early those returning from injury. And the players need to take ownership. They are responsible to the coaches to show pride for the honour that has been bestowed on them. They need to show hunger for the game and the result. John Plumtree – be brave, please.

As a postscript, I see Rob has also put up a poll which seems to cover similar sentiments as the above.


  • Good read.

  • Comment 1, posted at 20.07.08 20:05:23 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • thanks for this, HB. I predict much debate over the coming week

  • Comment 2, posted at 20.07.08 21:15:54 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • Certainly Henno needs to be tossed – and fast!

  • Comment 3, posted at 20.07.08 23:44:15 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • To put the 60% proper perspective:
    The real competition in the CC is between 5 teams. Against those teams the sharks are 1 out of 3. Not good. Not too bad either, you only need to be better than 1 other team to make the semis.

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.07.08 02:54:08 by fyndraai Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    fyndraaiTeam captain
  • Henno was brought back over Wes because the powers that be felt like they needed experience over ‘fresh blood’ for this game. Also Wes’ strapping last week was all preventative measures and he isn’t currently injured *knocks on wood*, hopefully we’ll see him back in the starting 15 soon.

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.07.08 03:19:33 by Milissa Reply

    MilissaVodacom Cup player
  • @fyndraai (Comment 4) : look, to be fair, we’ve lost twice away. The only team out of the big 5 to have won an away match against another big 5 team is the Bulls with their first-round win over the Lions at Ellis. Free State have also lost two away. Province have lost one away to a big 5 team (and two away to minnows). The Bulls have lost one away to a big 5 team. The Lions have only played one away to a big 5 team, which they lost.

    So, it’s not so much about the results, rather the way the Sharks are playing. We can argue ad infinitum that we have 15 players out (which we do) but the real issue is that the team we are putting out there should (on paper) be performing a hell of a lot better than it is.

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.07.08 03:52:52 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • @Milissa (Comment 5) : the powers that be are, in this matter, quite frankly, fucking idiots.

  • Comment 7, posted at 21.07.08 03:54:26 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • @robdylan (Comment 7) :

    I totally agree with you there. Personally, I would have never thought twice about taking Wes out of the starting squad.

  • Comment 8, posted at 21.07.08 04:16:56 by Milissa Reply

    MilissaVodacom Cup player
  • god knows what’s wrong with the Sharks just now but they’re playing crappy rugby, along with most of the other CC teams… they look either tired or clueless most of the time, like the Boks on Saturday… and it seems Plumtree cant get them to lift their game…
    oh well, Sharks forever, but not like this man, not like this

  • Comment 9, posted at 21.07.08 06:47:28 by spykerbaard Reply

    spykerbaardVodacom Cup player
  • Morning All
    I have this weeks poll.

    What was the most farcical event this weekend?

    *Greg Norman Choking Again
    *The Toyota’s Wheel Falling Off
    *Western Province Losing Two in a Row to Minnows
    *Bryce Lawrence’s Shocking Refereeing
    *McLaren Team Not Bringing in Hamilton Under The Safety Car
    *Will Farrell’s Performance in “Blades of Glory”
    *Henno Mentz’s Performance in “Sharks vs Cheetahs-Jaws of Jelly”.

  • Comment 10, posted at 21.07.08 07:24:05 by try time Reply

    Super Rugby player
  • Well besides the brain farts that Henno & Stephan had in the 1 st half I thought we might still click and run in a few trys in the 2 nd.
    BUT —- We got zero lineout ball.

    Credit to FS they took all the lineout ball at the front and all our ball as well. Sykes tried as hard as he could but had no chance in the front. Maybe Muller should have gone to front to contest.

    I know the guys tried — but it seems like 15 individuals, not the CC team from last year who were depleated but still beat the Bulls with 14 men.

    Now for the pussies — Go Sharks

  • Comment 11, posted at 21.07.08 08:28:50 by Ernie Reply

    ErnieVodacom Cup player
  • Quote Dingo Deans — You need to earn the right to swing it wide.

    Sharks are trying to swing it wide too much while defensive lines are in place. That is why they are running across field ala Waylon and even Jordan on Sat. We need some direct play – bash it up ala Brad, Kanko, Castens, BJ etc. Also a few mauls driving up field.

    As mentioned the lineout. That quick ball to the front by FS was brilliant.

  • Comment 12, posted at 21.07.08 08:38:05 by Ernie Reply

    ErnieVodacom Cup player
  • @fyndraai (Comment 4) :

    Yeah I agree that you only have to be better than 1 team to make the semi’s, but that is a “happy with shit performances” attitude.

    It is no use being better than one team and then knowing that any of the other three are going to hand us our arses on a plate in the semi’s :sad:

  • Comment 13, posted at 21.07.08 08:50:49 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • I’ve just voted “players attitude” on the poll, but wish to expand on that.

    It seems clear to me from seeing their interaction with each other that they are not “friends” Jordaan did something wrong on the weekend and when spoken to by one of the team mates (not sure what was said) he just seemed to ignore the guy and didn’t even look at the guy. :sad:

  • Comment 14, posted at 21.07.08 09:01:13 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • The Sharks have not beaten the Cheetahs since October 2003!??!

    2 World Cups have been played since their last victory over the Cheetahs…

    In think it is something like 9 losses in a row…

  • Comment 15, posted at 21.07.08 09:04:07 by Hmmm Reply

    HmmmSuper Rugby player
  • I think Strauss played well…
    But Barrit is a definite inclusion when fit…so who do you drop? Play Barrit at 10?
    Or can either Barrit or Strauss play 13…where the Sharks clearly have a problem…

  • Comment 16, posted at 21.07.08 09:05:14 by Hmmm Reply

    HmmmSuper Rugby player
  • HB.

    I disagree somewhat on your take on the coaches and taking blame.

    Rugby players need two things to flourish, 3 in reality but the third comes from providing them with the first 2 – structure and direction.

    Through providing structure and direction, you get number 3 – self-belief – as a team.

    Captain and coaches are the ones to provide players with structure and direction – at my observations from the Sharks so far is they lack direction more than anything else.

    They look lost, with no clue on how to get themselves out.

    I do agree that Plum needs to make the tough calls now, same as I believe De Villiers need to so a similar thing for the Boks.

    Look at the Valke as a great example.

    Not flashy talent, but they play with great structure, definately has direction and knows exactly what they want to do, and with that comes great committment from the players because they have belief, in themselves and the coaching team and captain.

  • Comment 17, posted at 21.07.08 09:16:42 by MorneN Reply
    MornéTeam captain
  • ag just cancel all their contracts including adolphs and start again.

  • Comment 18, posted at 21.07.08 09:47:19 by try time Reply

    Super Rugby player
  • I’ve had my second worse week ever in the FL but I still managed to move up a place into 8th…
    Think it is cozz I have no WP players?

  • Comment 19, posted at 21.07.08 09:50:37 by Hmmm Reply

    HmmmSuper Rugby player
  • Nice post here Hellbent. I agree with most of your sentiments entirely.
    I sincerely believe that Grant Bashford is not the man for the job. If I can recall he was not the greatest scrum half for either The Duikers or his club side Crusaders, back in the day.
    It deifies all logic that David Campese’s is cooling off his heels with school boy rugby, Andy Keast and Ryan Strudwick are involved in club rugby and who has Hitler got coaching the “World’s MOST SUCCESSFULLY UNSUCCESSFUL TEAM”?
    I hear that after the Bulls loss the Sharks were given a strenuous work out on the North Beach, after this week perhaps they should be given to Adolf for a taste of Staaldraad :smile:
    But Hellbent I do agree that draconian measures are required to shake this lethargic , deflated, demoralized and wretched team into something that it’s long suffering fans deserve and demand :!:

  • Comment 20, posted at 21.07.08 10:07:13 by Ragged Reply

    RaggedVodacom Cup player
  • I’ll put the blame on poor coaching, player attitudes and a bit of bad luck. :smile:

    Poor coaching 70% – the Sharks haven’t played the attacking brand of rugby we want them to play for a while but we always consoled ourselves with our good defence. Recently our defence leaves a lot to be desired and the boys almost look clueless. Seeing players committing similar errors in every match gives an indication that these are not being addressed properly in training. The coaching staff (including mental coaches) need to pull up their socks. What ever happened to the word GAMEPLAN ?

    Player attitudes 20% – I have to agree with MorneN. Young players are certainly never short of enthusiasism but it’s up to the senior players (and coaching team) to channel that energy in the right direction. This is where the supporters play a big role as well.The Sharks have a cloud hanging over them, we haven’t won a cup in yonks , the guys need motivation. Until when, you ask…forever! Somebody get those boys a leader and make them memorise the entire dialogue of the movie 300.

    Bad luck 10% – I can take the odd slip or bad bounce of the ball but most of our bad luck this season has come in the form of injuries. Honestly, our squad depth is not that bad. Even without the Bok-Sharks we still had a strong squad until the injuries struck. It’s been virtually impossible to have any form of continuity with all the forced changes.

    I think we all don’t have much of a problem with our log position or the 2 losses versus strong opposition, playing away from home. The problem is how poorly we’ve played in ALL our games. Let’s just say if I was trying to introduce someone to the game of rugby right now, I wouldn’t exactly pick a Sharks game. My plea to Plum…it’s time for your influence to be visible. What have you done for us lately?

  • Comment 21, posted at 21.07.08 10:18:41 by blackshark Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
  • @blackshark (Comment 21) :

    I just think you lack players in key areas!??!

    Forwards: one lock(no 4)/a 7 (your much needed muscle in the forwards)…
    A 8 that can link with your backline!??!
    Backline: 10/13 and need Kockett back….

    To me the above is at least 40% of your problems…it you are being bullied around at the breakdown you are not going to be able to play any game plan…

    Thereafter players attitudes 30% (of which Muller’s is 15%)…what was his beef with the ref!??! The Sharks we getting the better end of the tackle ball call’s for the first 20 minutes which was when this was going on!??!

  • Comment 22, posted at 21.07.08 10:39:58 by Hmmm Reply

    HmmmSuper Rugby player
  • Vodacom Western Province coach Allister Coetzee probably didn’t know how prophetic he was being when last week, looking forward to his team’s match against the Valke, he spoke about how improved coaching was closing the gap between the bigger and smaller unions.
    Calling all Springbok supporters! Send us your Fan pictures and videos to [email protected] and win great prizes from Sony and Sony Ericsson!

    In Coetzee’s view, the coaching staff in the smaller unions are now a lot more professional than they used to be, and devote a lot more time to the studying of their opponents, and probing for weak points, than they used to do. Of course, at the time he was talking in the wake of his team’s defeat to Griquas, who are coached by the underrated Dawie Theron.

    Well, if anyone struggled to believe in what Coetzee was saying, a visit to the Bosman Stadium in Brakpan this last Friday night emphatically drummed the point home. From the outset, the Valke appeared intent on just two thing — running hard and at pace at the flyhalf channel, and creating space out wide with a skilful passing game and innovative running lines and switches of direction.

    The upshot was that WP found themselves 14-3 down within the first 12 minutes, and then, when their lock Ross Skeate was yellow carded later in the match, the floodgates just opened as the Valke ran all over Province, scoring three tries in the period that the visitors were down to 14 men.

    In that time the Valke did what every team should do when they have an advantage in numbers — they kept the ball in hand and ran hard at their opponents, with everything just happening for them from there.

    It was an approach that gave the impression that Joubert may have been the one South African coach who took careful notes when Fiji and Tonga were giving so many of their opponents, including South Africa, such problems at last year’s World Cup.

    Of course, it would not have been completely new to the Bosman Stadium faithful, for the Valke did thump Griquas there earlier in the season, and threw away a big lead against Boland more recently before troubling the Sharks in Durban a week before the WP fixture.

    But there was something refreshingly different about the Valke approach, and the South Seas type of unpredictability and pace that they injected into their game. WP came back strongly towards the end, and for a while it looked like they might steal it from the hosts, but it would have been a travesty had that happened.

    As a result, WP are now listing quite uncomfortably on the fringes of the top four of the Currie Cup log, whereas a week ago, before the Griquas match, they looked a shoo-in for the semifinals after good wins over the Blue Bulls and Cheetahs.

    Coetzee’s team can get back on track against Boland Cavaliers at Newlands on Saturday, and you would expect them to, particularly as they should have a party of Boks back from national duty, but the coaching staff can consider themselves to have been handed a thorough examination by their Valke opponents on Friday — and they should now know where the weaknesses in their team are.

  • Comment 23, posted at 21.07.08 12:11:39 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • the story above is exactly the problem with the sharks
    i said it on a post last saturday after the game

    the sharks are poorly coached and thats a fact

    i do not blame the players

    can you imagine the sharks being coached by the valke coach???
    with our better quality players??

    infact i wish they got the valke coaching staff , hell you might just get trophies back in the cabinet

  • Comment 24, posted at 21.07.08 12:15:37 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • and even better i hope they involve this coach with the boks because the valke are playing a brand of rugby we all dream about


  • Comment 25, posted at 21.07.08 12:17:15 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • Morne – comment 17: Structure and direction. I think the problem is more than just simply bad coaching.

    1. Too many players coasting on reputation.
    2. Lack of leadership from senior players.
    3. Our backline being poor all year and we had the same coaching staff as 2007. I think Stefan has killed our attack in a huge way.
    4. Loss of form. JP didn’t contribute a single try in the S14 through loss of form, injury, attitude or no ball. The fact is 14 tries skews our perception of a try-scoring team just as it did the stats for the Bulls in 2007 when their game against the Reds saw them score about 14 tries and totally skew their stats as a potent team when one game made a big change to those stats. Waylon Murray has also lost form and either crabs to the side or fails to pass, but this cannot be a coaching directive.
    5. Rotation of players – with injuries and bok players out, our backline in particular has had 3 flyhalves and five wings. Continuity is virtually non-existent.

  • Comment 26, posted at 21.07.08 12:21:05 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • Morning all

  • Comment 27, posted at 21.07.08 12:23:30 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • hellbent mate if we dont have the depth they must buy , but you cant keep blaming depth and not do sopmething about it
    we will always have injuries and have boks out

  • Comment 28, posted at 21.07.08 12:23:47 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • gm rob

  • Comment 29, posted at 21.07.08 12:26:30 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • @sharks_lover (Comment 28) : but even so, we don’t seem to get the youngsters really coming through. Justin Downey is a star in the making, yet he’s languishing in club rugby while we fart around with the likes of Nic Strauss (average UK club players) and Nik Blignaut (shown time gain that he’s too slow for flank)

  • Comment 30, posted at 21.07.08 12:27:00 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • Sharks Lover, your statement of fact presumes you know more than you are letting on. Not sure if you saw Henno’s brain fart to not dot the ball down in the dead ball area and rather throw a forward pass and end up us conceding a try, or the second try off our attack, a combination of poor hands and an unlucky bounce of the ball.

    How can you NOT blame the players. When you see a prop on the wing and a flyhalf trying to clean out at a ruck, are you honestly believing that the coach has issued this, that the 90kg guys must battle against those 20kgs heavier, or the guy that can run 40m in 8 seconds must compete with a wing that does it in 4?

    That’s a very simplistic argument and takes away ownership of the player’s honour and duty to the jersey. That they are not responsible for their mistakes – fumbles, knock-ons, missed tackles wrong options, failure to break the line…..

  • Comment 31, posted at 21.07.08 12:37:00 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • @hellbent (Comment 26) : Hi there all :smile:
    IMO basically every point you mention comes down to coaching/selection? shortcomings. Shall we replace coaching with administration? :???:

  • Comment 32, posted at 21.07.08 12:37:00 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
  • Silver Fox (32) – I agree that in some way, many of the issues come down to coaching, but the coach is backing his players, maybe it’s being blind of him to keep going with the same players, but you also cannot make 10 different selections each week and drop a guy immediately. With the senior players, one has to believe they have been there long enough, done well enough to earn the jersey, and should thus be able to do the business.

    I think it’s a case of the players failing the coach, not the other way around.

    He has given them opprtunities or thrown life-lines, and they are simply not taking them.

    But at the end of the day, the coach will be fired before the entire team, and in this case, I am backing the coach because I simply cannot fathom how some of our players with Super 14 experience suddenly can’t kick, pass, tackle or run.

    Go read the Sharks website report this morning, he alludes to the fact that the players are not executing what they should be.

    I’d be brave and drop players this week if I were him. I think it will show his character and that he has strong intentions.

    if the players don’t have a quality backbone, Plumtree needs to show that one exists.

  • Comment 33, posted at 21.07.08 12:43:31 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • @hellbent (Comment 33) : go read my latest article ;)

  • Comment 34, posted at 21.07.08 12:49:11 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • @hellbent (Comment 33) : HB yes, I agree with what you say that the players are letting the coach down. Then surely the coach has no option other than drop the offending player? I will allow for your argument that one cannot drop 10 or more players eacg week, but I also believe that in seriously kicking their asses that way, they will soon enough put their weight where it belongs!!

    Seems to me that a lot of people are saying PDV are not a good coach. Be that as it may, but I saw the players putting their “tired” bodies on the line for him? or their pockets? I give him a big plus for that.

    The bull’s coach took a lot of flack during the super14. What is different there now?

  • Comment 35, posted at 21.07.08 12:53:09 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
  • Be nice to gloat but WP are busy pulling the plug on themselves at th moment….

    Sharks remind me of Province under Kobus…..clueless.

  • Comment 36, posted at 21.07.08 12:57:36 by Sauce Reply
    Worcestershire SauceCurrie Cup player
  • @hellbent (Comment 26) :

    Will answer as you posted.

    1. Too many players coasting on reputation.

    Who picks them? (coaches)

    2. Lack of leadership from senior players.

    Check my post for reference to captain.

    3. Our backline being poor all year and we had the same coaching staff as 2007. I think Stefan has killed our attack in a huge way.

    You lost Campo, who by all accounts did a lot of work with specifcally JP.

    4. Loss of form. JP didn’t contribute a single try in the S14 through loss of form, injury, attitude or no ball. The fact is 14 tries skews our perception of a try-scoring team just as it did the stats for the Bulls in 2007 when their game against the Reds saw them score about 14 tries and totally skew their stats as a potent team when one game made a big change to those stats. Waylon Murray has also lost form and either crabs to the side or fails to pass, but this cannot be a coaching directive.

    See point 3, same thing

    5. Rotation of players – with injuries and bok players out, our backline in particular has had 3 flyhalves and five wings. Continuity is virtually non-existent.

    Again, who rotates? (coaches).

    Yes players must take responsibility on execution, but again players can only perform if the right structures are put in place for them.

    I am not part of Sharks training sessions so I do not know what happens behind closed doors so it is all speculation.

    But like I said, my observations on them seems to indicate lack of direction.

  • Comment 37, posted at 21.07.08 13:16:11 by MorneN Reply
    MornéTeam captain
  • hell bent mate HERE IS A FACT :mrgreen:
    the sharks the way they are playing now will not make the semi’s

  • Comment 38, posted at 21.07.08 13:45:31 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • Morne, I get what you are saying and agree to some degree, but in the final instance, is it not encumbent upon the players to show some respect to the jersey they have been entrusted to wear with honour in the tradition of Gary Teichmann, Henry Honiball, Andre Joubert, Craig Jamiesen, etc?

    I acknowledge that we cannot expect diamonds out of coal, but there are players not pulling their weight and they should take some ownership.

    This country is full of people finding reasons for failure outside of their own short-comings. Please don’t let Sharks rugby go down the same poop-shute of mediocrity.

  • Comment 39, posted at 21.07.08 13:47:02 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • hell bent it is already on the way down

    and by management not reacting to this disgraceful performances , it will only get worse

    the sharks need to admit there is problems and sought it out
    problem is they are seemingly not admitting this to themselves

    and i also agree there are players that are not performing

    but all you must do is take one team like the falcons and see the structural play and how well they are coached

    the coaches job is to gel a team and to make it play as a unit
    \ this is not happening

    lemme tell you we blame ST ??? if you made him full back for the falcons the way they are playing ????
    he’d prolly be a bok now

    he came back from over seas ? and look how bad he got here
    butch james came back great and look now??

  • Comment 40, posted at 21.07.08 13:54:09 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • Sharks Lover, judging by your big smiley at the Sharks failure, I have to wonder if you are just an agent provocoteur and not a sharks fan.

  • Comment 41, posted at 21.07.08 14:02:03 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • SL you fail to see the reality with the smaller unions. Paydirt for them is beating the bigger unions, that’s their entire season goal. Yes, the Valke have played some entertaining rugby, I agree, and I have enjoyed it. But look at the tries against column – rugby analysis is not a simplistic thing that if a team scores tries, all is OK.

    Valke lost at home to Boland, currently the worst side on the log after scoring lovely tries and running great lines….

  • Comment 42, posted at 21.07.08 14:08:52 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • no hell bent you dont know me at all you judge me ??? trust me i am probably one of the biggest sharks fans you can get

    that was tongue in cheek gees find a sence of humour , IT COMES FREE

    and it is you that fails to see?
    you think because the falcons lost to boland that is a margin to go by?? they beat wp
    they were damn good against us and could have won

    but thats not what this is about , its about the coaching one can clearly see they have

    the support play etc

    you forget they have players most provinces dont want

  • Comment 43, posted at 21.07.08 14:20:21 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • and if you think the coaching problem has just startined with the bad coaching ur dreaming

    the whole year one can see no structure or inter play from our backs

  • Comment 44, posted at 21.07.08 14:22:16 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • started*

  • Comment 45, posted at 21.07.08 14:22:53 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • Let’s agree to disagree. I also think that an article that was one paragraph long that said all the Sharks failures boil down to poor coaching would have been pretty boring. Hence I tried to give it some thought.

    I don’t believe I am always right about everything, but hell, at least I tried.

  • Comment 46, posted at 21.07.08 14:30:47 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • @hellbent (Comment 39) :

    Had a discussion this morning RE professionalism and pride in rugby.

    I have been on for a long time now that you cannot marry professionalism and tradition. You either go one way or the other.

    In fact, supporters should realise we are not amateur supporters anymore but professional supporters. Do you have any idea what money we spend on rugby on average a year?

    Point is though, in rugby we try and marry the two, analysing in an ‘amateur’ (for a better word) way for a professional sport.

    Amateurism comes with a lot of emotion, and emotion has very little place in the pro environment.

    In one instance we expect professionalism from our players, coaches and administrators, but in the next breath we talk tradition, values and pride and even loyalty.

    And the traditional reasoning almost always comes out when things are not going that well. Then we tend to fall back on the ‘good old days’.

    Rugby needs a major shift.

    Tell me, in what other pro environment could these guys expect to still be where they are?

    Even in other pro sports like NFL?

    Rugby needs to go either one way, or the other.

  • Comment 47, posted at 21.07.08 14:44:10 by MorneN Reply
    MornéTeam captain
  • Morne, I am not sure I really understand you. I agree that non-performance should have some “punishment” but feel that tradition and professionalism do not have to be conflicting entities.

    Professionalism is about pride in what you do, working hard, and appreciating your paycheque, not taking what you get for granted.

    Tradition is about pride in what you are representing and being a part of what has been great in the past, and honouring the people who did it before you, by giving what they did, even though you are getting paid and they did not.

    Where the two fail, and it is an enigma, is how before 1995 when the game went professional (even if it was shamaterism in some respects), players woulod give their all for pretty much nothing but a pat on the back from heir team-mates and coaches.

    Nowadays, they get that plus a healthy bank balance that could see many retire at age 30 and still we see some players coasting.

    To me that is unforgivable and a finger at the former greats who achieved greatness that these current players have yet to achieve.

  • Comment 48, posted at 21.07.08 14:57:42 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • Quite possibly this is a point of reference: “And the traditional reasoning almost always comes out when things are not going that well. Then we tend to fall back on the ‘good old days’.”

    The point I am trying to get across, perhaps not all that well, is that when things are going right, the players are doing honour and justice to the jersey, just like those that did it before them.

    If you fail, and it’s because it was against a better team, it’s not the end of the world. If you fail because you put in 50% effort, then get out, you’re not in the right job.

    This is not Club C Division, this is the pinnacle – or close enough – and players need to take responsibility.

    Or become street sweepers where, instead of a missed tackle or dropped ball, the odd bit of dirt they leave behind is of little consequence.

  • Comment 49, posted at 21.07.08 15:02:54 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • @hellbent (Comment 49) : HB, the thing to do to instill that blooming pride in tradition and jersey is to give them performance ratings. 4 out 0f 10 gives you 40% of your salary. Judged by old Boks.

  • Comment 50, posted at 21.07.08 15:13:18 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
  • @Silver Fox (Comment 50) : has everyone submitted raings for this weekend’s mess?

  • Comment 51, posted at 21.07.08 15:21:47 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • guys as much as i agree rugby is not an individual sport
    and your mates making wrong calls can make you look bad

    what then ??

    fact is a team should gel and the sharks aint

    the other thing is the rumours of problems withing sharks management thats been going for some time

    and the other problem is there isnt as much depth at the sharks as we think

  • Comment 52, posted at 21.07.08 15:24:30 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • @robdylan (Comment 51) : Whats dat? Raings??

  • Comment 53, posted at 21.07.08 15:24:42 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
  • @Silver Fox (Comment 53) : http://www.sharksworld.co.za/player-ratings/

  • Comment 54, posted at 21.07.08 15:25:54 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • It seems that there are an awfull lot of hurt ego’s, Monday blues and sore heads around. Cheer up!!, the Sharks will trounce the Lions this weekend!! :grin:

    Sorry Walter!! :evil:

  • Comment 55, posted at 21.07.08 15:29:12 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
  • Sharks Lover, you lose around 15 players and any team is going to have their depth tested. Imagine the Lions or Cheetahs in that predicament.

    Province have shown it, Cheetahs in the S14 showed it, we are currently showing it. Hopefully with a few players back from the Boks we will look better.

    As to rumours of problems in the camp, these seem to emenate on blogs by fans and so should be taken with a pinch of salt.

  • Comment 56, posted at 21.07.08 15:31:15 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • @robdylan (Comment 54) : Was commenting on the finger slip :mrgreen:

  • Comment 57, posted at 21.07.08 15:31:20 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
  • @hellbent (Comment 56) : And then I read that the AB’s had that same problem. Does that put our fabulous win in perspective? Or does it only count if it involves our team? :grin:

  • Comment 58, posted at 21.07.08 15:33:50 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
  • Ruan back for Sharks
    Posted in Currie Cup, Springboks by Grant

    Ruan Pienaar is one of four Sharks players released by Springbok management to play in the Absa Currie Cup.

    He will be joined by Beast Mtawarira, Odwa Ndungane and Ryan Kankowski (pending a medical examination). Pienaar sat on the bench for the two Tri-Nations Tests in Dunedin and Perth, replacing Butch James at flyhalf in the win over the All Blacks and Bryan Habana on the wing on Saturday.

    It is not clear where Pienaar will be used in the provincial set-up, but with Frederic Michalak starting at flyhalf and scrumhalf Rory Kockott injured, he could play in his preferred No 9 jersey.

    Schalk Brits, Brian Mujati, Bolla Conradie and Peter Grant have been released back to WP, while Adriaan Strauss returns to the Cheetahs.

    The Sharks and WP have been in poor form in recent weeks, and the additional resources will add depth to the respective squads.

    The Springboks re-assemble next Wednesday for the Test against Argentina on 9 August.

  • Comment 59, posted at 21.07.08 15:34:46 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverTeam captain
  • @sharks_lover (Comment 59) : I don’t like the sound of Kanko needing a medical first….

  • Comment 60, posted at 21.07.08 15:38:49 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • Silver Fox (58) – that was why I included WP and Cheetahs, depth is vitally important for any side. I am just being a Sharks supporter when I talk Sharks, but the 2007 S14 may also have been skewed against the NZ sides because of the pulling out of the ABs and thus their depth was tested (and found wanting).

    It’s a pattern we shouldn’t take lightly, one that affects all teams at different times.

    Read the article above, I suggested there were a number of reasos behind our poor performances, not just one glaring issue. Depth is one, just as player attitude is another. Leadership, and so on. I listed six areas of concern, there could be more.

  • Comment 61, posted at 21.07.08 15:42:06 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • RD – did Kanko take a knock against OZ? Or are they coming back to the injury against Italy?

  • Comment 62, posted at 21.07.08 15:43:12 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • @hellbent (Comment 62) : he got a smack on the hooter

  • Comment 63, posted at 21.07.08 15:44:22 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • @hellbent (Comment 62) :

    He took a blow on the nose, went off for a blood bin for a few minutes

  • Comment 64, posted at 21.07.08 15:45:56 by walter van transvaal.co.za Reply

    walter van Lions WorldCurrie Cup player
  • @hellbent (Comment 61) : Agree. Lots of things wrong. Little bit right too of course!! And what, with all the talk about more rugby doing the rounds, a better time than investing in our youth, a decent rotation system an so on? You did make a lot of sense, I am for finding solutions as well.

  • Comment 65, posted at 21.07.08 15:48:39 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
  • I think two things this week will give us an incling of whether the bull will be taken by the horns:

    1. Drastic changes to the side (and not only the 4 Boks)
    2. A good win over the Lions on Saturday.

    I think that will appease us. Obviously, we will need to consistently maintain a high level each week, but this current standard of rugby is not going to win any silverware.

  • Comment 66, posted at 21.07.08 15:54:36 by hellbent Reply

    Under 21 player
  • HB maybe I will re-hash an old article I did. Comes down to how players, especially youngsters (but older guys too) have trouble adapting to professionalism in rugby.

    There is no apprenticeship, there is no growth path and no plan.

    Hear of the saying; “If you want loyalty buy a dog”?

    I know what you are saying, WP went through the same thing under Fester, but I believe we are not dealing with the real problems, only the superficial ones – or most obvious.

    Will look for that old article. It is too long to discuss now.

  • Comment 67, posted at 21.07.08 15:56:21 by MorneN Reply
    MornéTeam captain
  • Thanks for a great article HB.

    Must lean toward Morne’s points though – good players don’t just go bad en masse. You must ask questions of the coaches when you see that.

    Sure, injury and Bok call-ups are playing a part, but I see no structure, and the selections are frankly perplexing.

  • Comment 68, posted at 21.07.08 20:54:01 by Big Fish Reply
    Big FishAssistant coach

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