robdylan

Time for changes


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 18 Aug 2008 at 09:46
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The Boks aren’t going to win either test against Australia unless something drastic is done.

There seems to be an air of huge complacency in the team and it’s the senior players who seem to be worst affected. You know that I’m a revolutionary at heart, which is why I say “drop the lot of them!” and let’s start fresh with a core of hungry youngsters.

Then again, one needs to consider the reality of the situation and the dearth of quality backup in certain key positions (did you mention flyhalf?) means that we cannot afford to drop every one of the 9 or so players who were poor against the All Blacks. Some fresh blood and new ideas are, however desperately needed. Here follows my master-plan, which I fully expect you guys to pick to pieces in due course.

1) New captain, please. Matfield is a disaster. I’m tempted to suggest something completely off the wall here, like giving it to Bismarck, but I guess discretion should be the better part of valour in this case. Jean de Villiers it will be.

2) The tight five were superb in the scrums and woeful everywhere else. The front row can hang on to their spots, as can Andries Bekker, who actually played very well. Bekker will be in his rightful place, number 5, with Danie Rossouw coming into the number 4 jersey. Johann Muller will come into the bench, along with Deon Carstens. That gives us a core of 8 tight forwards who know how to keep it tight, hit the rucks and generally have a superbly high work rate.

3) We need a genuine fetcher. Baywatch Grobbelaar has been without peer in this department for 3 seasons and it’s time his form is rewarded. He comes straight into the side at number 6. Schalk Burger plays the second fetcher role at 8, with Pierre Spies playing the basher role at 7. Luke Watson and Juan Smith can take each other out for coffee, because neither of them will be needed. Joe van Niekerk will be on the bench and I might even be tempted to pull a rabbit out of the hat, by picking someone like Willem Alberts or Jean Deysel to sit next to him. Those Aussie boys will get the message, yeah Lord!

4) Fourie du Preez needs to go back to the Bulls. He is woeful. Problem is, young Ricky is worse. What to do? Pick Ruan Pienaar, I guess and bring in Janno Vermaak to sit on the bench. Butch James gets one last, final, all-or-nothing test match to prove his worth, mostly because there is nobody else.

5) Centres unchanged, but Jean is at 12 and Adi at 13. Wings unchanged, unless Habs isn’t fit, in which case let’s give Nokwe another go. Percy goes back to Cape Town, with Conrad Jantjes again at fullback.

So here you have it: Rob’s amazing Wallaby-stuffing new-look zero-complacency breakdown-dominating Bok 22…

15 Conrad Jantjes, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Adi Jacobs, 12 Jean de Villiers (capt), 11 Bryan Habana/Jongi Nokwe, 10 Butch James, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Schalk Burger, 7 Pierre Spies, 6 Cobus Grobbelaar, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Danie Rossouw, 3 CJ van der Linde, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira
16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Deon Carstens, 18 Johann Muller, 19 Joe van Niekerk, 20 Willem Alberts, 21 Janno Vermaak, 22 Frans Steyn



154 Comments

  • Interesting. Are there any stats available to prove Cobus Grobbelaar’s worth as fetcher? Reason I ask is every season I hear people going on about how good he is. If so then why don’t other sides try and buy him? Rassie’s buying evry other loosie in the land. :wink: Has he had many offers from elsewhere? Do the other countries S14 coaches regard him as such a good fetcher? Nothing against the guy or his province, just wondering.

  • Comment 1, posted at 18.08.08 09:56:48 by McLovin Reply
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  • I know FdP had a nightmare on Saturday, but I still rate him.

  • Comment 2, posted at 18.08.08 09:58:38 by McLovin Reply
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  • New captain yes, but new ‘leadership’ mentality all round – where each person is not his own captain, responsibility or freedom’s are reigned in where we have a definate captain, a couple of leaders in the forwards and backline and thats it.

    Captain: Jean
    Leaders: CJ, Bismarck, Danie, Fourie (9), Habs

    Bekker in, Danie with him until Bakkies is back, Muller in the squad – agreed.

    Schalk 8, no way. He is too dof for an 8, no nice way of putting it.

    Schalk 6, Joe 8, Spies 7.

    Our problem is not fetchers, it is the combination as a whole and how effective they are under the ELV’s

    Willem Alberts on the bench, and then play with the idea of Baywatch, Brussow and Watson as the other option.

    Fourie stays at 9, Butch is not the organiser or playmaker we need at 10. Grant and Pienaar needs to be groomed here. Yes I know what Pienaar said, and I dont care to be honest.

    Centers the same, back three the same with Conrad starting and Monty on the bench.

  • Comment 3, posted at 18.08.08 09:59:03 by MorneN Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 1) : I have no stats, but every game he’s played at Super 14 level, he has consistently excelled at the basics of what a fetcher should do – that is, secure our ball and steal theirs.

  • Comment 4, posted at 18.08.08 09:59:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 1) :

    No he is not, stats show him with one of the lowest turn-overs in the Super 14 from all our so-called fetchers – Verusco stats

  • Comment 5, posted at 18.08.08 10:00:06 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 5) : Thanks.

  • Comment 6, posted at 18.08.08 10:00:59 by McLovin Reply

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  • @McLovin (Comment 6) :

    Remember however, stats look at things in isolation, it will never give you a fair idea of total contribution

  • Comment 7, posted at 18.08.08 10:08:07 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 5) : so who had best stats?

  • Comment 8, posted at 18.08.08 10:11:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • Found a Rugby World SA article on Verusco’s site from 2006. And then Cobus was third in terms of turnovers for SA teams.

  • Comment 9, posted at 18.08.08 10:11:25 by McLovin Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 8) :

    I dont think you want to know…

  • Comment 10, posted at 18.08.08 10:12:13 by MorneN Reply
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  • Schalk 8, no way. He is too dof for an 8, no nice way of putting it.

    Schalk 6, Joe 8, Spies 7.

    Our problem is not fetchers, it is the combination as a whole and how effective they are under the ELV’s

    Please elaborate…

  • Comment 11, posted at 18.08.08 10:12:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 10) : Probably not, but tell me anyway ;)

  • Comment 12, posted at 18.08.08 10:12:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • Like I said, stats look at things in isolation, not overall or total contribution.

  • Comment 13, posted at 18.08.08 10:13:06 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 13) : so would you not agree that Baywatch could add considerably to the Boks’ cause at this stage?

  • Comment 14, posted at 18.08.08 10:14:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • Watson. I reckon the fetcher theory is also highly overrated.

    Schalk for instance forces a lot of turnovers but not through ground play, through his work rate rather.

    @robdylan (Comment 11) :

    Schalk simply does not read the game well. He is a guy you give a job, and he goes out and does it 150% effort. Dont ask him to think.

    Joe and WIllem Alberts are our best 8th men of the scrum, also they read the game well and falls back in defence quite well.

    Spies at 7 for his linking ability and creating space.

  • Comment 15, posted at 18.08.08 10:15:29 by MorneN Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 14) :

    No and I base it on the same thing you mentioned in the article, you need a tight 5, but not only a tight 5 but a forward pack that knows how to keep things tight and control possession, build phases and break defences down.

    You cannot score without the ball, you need to control the ball. Doing that is much more important in my view than playing a guy who is limited because of his style of play of always being on the ground and taken out of the game.

    Same reason I think players like Watson is not needed because they are way too limited to only one role. And not good enough in the primary role of rugby – controlling possession.

  • Comment 16, posted at 18.08.08 10:18:09 by MorneN Reply
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  • Gents,

    Lets slow down. Saturday was unpleasent. Do not believe we should be hitting the big red panic button and make significant changes at this point. Cannot see a flood of new players being ready for a test match this coming weekend. The core should remain the same with possibly two or three changes … and even then i am hesitant.

    Believe we lack ball retention & security skill and composure as a team. A South African weak point in comparison to our Australasian neighbour who are superior in both these aspects. Honestly cannot see a single Baywatch, Botes or Brussouw solving these woe’s. For me, its a matter of getting in the required technical and mental coaching expertise to work on these areas.

    In respect of personal, would have Ricky and Conrad starting – Fourie & Percy on the bench. Apart from that would persist with the same 22 for the remaining Trinations matches.

    Post the Currie cup make an assessment as to whom to move forward with. At this point wholesale changes if deemed necessary. Right now, would be Strauli like folly.

  • Comment 17, posted at 18.08.08 10:24:58 by saffa_bok Reply

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  • Hey guys!

    Saturday’s game was so painful to watch. After the last AB’s try my buddies decided to rather focus their attention on how the braaivleis was going… :mrgreen:

    I must say, Luke needs to either play as a 6 or go back to WP.

    What the hell was he doing picking up the ball at the ruck and basically putting it into RJ’s hands???

    He is trying to hard and thinks that by ‘being everywhere’ on the field he is playing well…

    Sorry Luke. You are not good enough to be Schalk’s understudy for the Boks.

    Is Wickus injured??? I’d have him on the bench for next weeks game…

  • Comment 18, posted at 18.08.08 10:30:06 by wpw Reply
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  • Easy tiger, and its worth noting that the sharks form given some of the articles on this site suggest your selection of a rash of Sharks players might be a little to narrow.

    Dropping Matfield completely might be a tad to much, if the loss of the Captaincy doesn’t fire him up – i don’t think anything will. I agree give Jean the captaincy.

    Butch hasn’t really delivered on the form of the World Cup, but there really isn’t anyone else. Unless young Frans Steyn is given an extended run to see if he is in fact the second coming.

    Spies, improving with each game, really should be doing this at CC level not against the best in the world. Joe can take his place.

    Schalla stays – you know what you get, and you are sure to get it. But the rest of the pack needs to come to the party too.

    Juan Smith, is a shadow of thee player he was last year, perhaps its an overplaying issue and a break might just be all he needs to rediscover his best form.

    Much like Spies, FDP should be playing some CC, to get the game time he needs to sharpen up, and to be honest i think Ricky has been pretty good in his absense and didn’t deserve the dig you took.

    But in truth all of this means nothing if we cannot keep our ball, which i think is what is keeping this team from delivering on its potential – we don’t protect out ball, nor do we seem to be committing enough players to the contact point, part of the new ELV’s is to create a contest for the ball something we seem to be missing.

    We need a rethink on how we are handling our breakdown. Urgently. Once we can retain our posession – something we didn’t do against Aus – George Smith cleaned our pipes single handedly as did Mcaw on Saturday, we can focus on playing the game and not practise realigning defense under pressure which is what we appear to be doing.

  • Comment 19, posted at 18.08.08 10:35:52 by Sauce Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 16) : ok – I’ll buy that, to an extent. It kind of implies, though, that Juan Smith is the sole reason we’re getting our asses handed to us at every breakdown, which seems a little strange.

  • Comment 20, posted at 18.08.08 10:37:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • We were comprehensively outplayed. Bear in mind, two of those tries came from sheer and utter stupidity by individual players. That leaves the score back at 5-0. Says, to me the Boks are not as bad as the hysteria would like us to believe.

    We could not execute the final moves when in their 22 – which was a fair decent amount of time. Says to me, we lacking a leadership in the backs. Lets be honest, Butch is struggling to stamp any authority on the game this year. The question tho, who else?

  • Comment 21, posted at 18.08.08 10:37:27 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • @Sauce (Comment 19) : your selection of a rash of Sharks players

    Hey… that’s not REALLY fair, is it? You accusing me of bias? :mrgreen:

    Unless young Frans Steyn is given an extended run to see if he is in fact the second coming.

    Now why am I not the only one having this particular thought. Maybe the time has come to get Frans to put up or shut up. Give him the jersey and 5 tests to establish himself. We’ll soon see if he has what it takes or not.

  • Comment 22, posted at 18.08.08 10:40:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • Whats with these stupid “says to me”
    Need to slap myself

  • Comment 23, posted at 18.08.08 10:41:31 by saffa_bok Reply

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  • @saffa_bok (Comment 21) : hang on… take me through that. I agree that Mealamu’s try was a result of combined stupidity by Steyn and Div. Which other one do you mean and who was the guilty party?

  • Comment 24, posted at 18.08.08 10:42:59 by robdylan Reply
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  • Hey, leave the Sharks players where they are, they are just starting to come right and dont need their brains addled with whatever the boks have got – if you want unstructured, the devil may care rugby then go and raid Province.

  • Comment 25, posted at 18.08.08 10:46:00 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 24) :

    Hab’s quick throw in within our own 22 when surrounded by a horde of AB’s. Ball got turned over from there and AB’s scored.

    FPS, we had plenty of tall timber, play it safe at go for the bog standard lineout.

    (I think that is how it happened – feel free to correct if mistaken).

  • Comment 26, posted at 18.08.08 10:47:35 by saffa_bok Reply

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  • Hi Guys. I am back, like a bad habit. :)

    My question for the coaches and team brains is this : why was Schalk playing lone ranger at the breakdowns ? And Tonto where the _____ were you ?

  • Comment 27, posted at 18.08.08 10:49:41 by yossarian Reply

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  • Tend to believe the shortcomings we seeing in the Bok team can be seen at Super rugby level. We lack the coaching expertise.

  • Comment 28, posted at 18.08.08 10:49:45 by saffa_bok Reply

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  • Rob,

    The centres just swap jerseys, JDV was still @ inside & Jacobs outside, but hell the prospect of having Adi @ 12 sometimes could work… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 29, posted at 18.08.08 10:53:15 by Charlie Reply

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  • How good was Beast btw??? :shock: :shock:

    AWESOME PLAYER he is!!!

    I hear he has a younger brother who plays wing for Collegians (is it??) :cool:

  • Comment 30, posted at 18.08.08 10:53:40 by wpw Reply
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  • Surely you can’t blame the coaches, these are pro rugby players and surely have to take responsibility themselves… :wink:

  • Comment 31, posted at 18.08.08 10:55:09 by Charlie Reply

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  • Hey Yoss!

    Welcome back!!!

  • Comment 32, posted at 18.08.08 10:58:26 by wpw Reply
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  • Thanks mr wpw

  • Comment 33, posted at 18.08.08 10:59:25 by yossarian Reply

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  • @Charlie (Comment 29) : Charlie – then why the hell change jerseys? As far as I’m concerned, there were far too many sideshows leading up to this match.

  • Comment 34, posted at 18.08.08 11:02:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • Seems there are a lot of people who rate Matfield’s beard more highly than his game.

  • Comment 35, posted at 18.08.08 11:06:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • @yossarian (Comment 33) :

    good that u didn’t forget the ‘mr’ :mrgreen:

  • Comment 36, posted at 18.08.08 11:07:11 by wpw Reply
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  • @yossarian (Comment 27) :
    Well lone ranger was obviously one too many thus his substitution. And then there were none.

  • Comment 37, posted at 18.08.08 11:09:39 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 34) : Rob surely it was a tactic that they try to use… :wink:

  • Comment 38, posted at 18.08.08 11:12:48 by Charlie Reply

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  • After studying various comments, I have come to the conclusion that we should not ( cannot anyway ) panick in a big way. Another captain is needed. And a playmaker in the backline in place of Botch. Frans Steyn for 5 games sounds nice. Beast for president, I say.

  • Comment 39, posted at 18.08.08 11:14:39 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Charlie (Comment 38) : wouldn’t concentrating on the basics have been a better tactic? ;)

  • Comment 40, posted at 18.08.08 11:16:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • AND some serious ###kicking!! Just like me to forget the most important. :roll:

  • Comment 41, posted at 18.08.08 11:17:02 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • steyn playmaker? a very confused statement im afraid
    there isnt one in the bok backline as good a player de villiers is when have you ever seen him put someone in a gap ? he is a runner not a playmaker still very good though

  • Comment 42, posted at 18.08.08 11:19:06 by jjj1 Reply

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  • @jjj1 (Comment 42) : I think you’re missing a vital full-stop or comma there somewhere ;) Seriously – are you saying JDV IS or ISN’T a good playmaker?

  • Comment 43, posted at 18.08.08 11:22:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @jjj1 (Comment 42) : Which part do I need to explain? Put Frans Steyn in Butch’c place and observe, he COULD be the playmaker we need. Off course Jean is brilliant.

  • Comment 44, posted at 18.08.08 11:22:27 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • Some players just never woke up from the dream of winning a World Cup. Matfield, Juan, Monty and Butch are the biggest culprits.

    Get with the programme or get off the bus guys. I think a big problem is with Butch’s attitude. A guy who is talking retirement doesn’t have the hunger to play at this level, and it shows.

    Our scrumming was great though. The vaunted AB pack which was supposed to shunt us round the park got nada, nothing and zero advantage for their team. Hopefully the Aussie front row will get their heads shoved up the proverbial next week.

  • Comment 45, posted at 18.08.08 11:23:48 by yossarian Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 43) : Rob, you not going to scold me for talking politics? You slipping or what?? :twisted:

  • Comment 46, posted at 18.08.08 11:27:19 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 46) : huh?

  • Comment 47, posted at 18.08.08 11:31:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 37) : yeah, Joel Stransky commentating expressed his confusion more than once as to why our best break down player was pulled off. Luke was not effective and we seemed to go into a downward spiral after that sub.

  • Comment 48, posted at 18.08.08 11:31:21 by yossarian Reply

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  • i would just prefer jean devill at 13 as i believe he is more effective strike runner than he actually is a playmaker for others around him , as for steyn wouldnt play him for the sharks at 10 let alone the boks , he must stop complaining and play 15 where he should have the whole Super14

  • Comment 49, posted at 18.08.08 11:32:11 by jjj1 Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) : Never mind, just a joke, but I sure do love this type of comments. Makes my day! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 50, posted at 18.08.08 11:34:43 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @jjj1 (Comment 49) : ah – ok. Got you now

  • Comment 51, posted at 18.08.08 11:38:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 40) : Still my concern was that the Boks forwards did not play as a unit, they needed a platform before they could start running all over he show, but the scrum was awesome…individual credit to Beast… :wink:

  • Comment 52, posted at 18.08.08 11:40:56 by Charlie Reply

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  • I also think a few changes are needed on a horses for courses policy The loose trio dont jell but the burger van niekerk smith one did tight 5 all ok-dont shoot me-the change i would make is danie for dries that way we have another ball carrier and someone to take play over the ad line I wouldnt make 2 many back changes Jantjies for Percy maybe and if Brian is unfit either Steyn or Nokwie
    If the aussies play smith and waugh then maybe loose juan and play spies

  • Comment 53, posted at 18.08.08 11:46:16 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @Charlie (Comment 52) : I was watching him… he killed Sommerville, then did the same to Afoa. Do you have any idea how strong that kid is?

  • Comment 54, posted at 18.08.08 11:48:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 53) : Feel free to have your opinion friend, only for that one I may consider some steps. And IMO the team as a whole did not jell.

  • Comment 55, posted at 18.08.08 11:52:05 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Charlie (Comment 52) : @robdylan (Comment 54) : Plus he seems to have the brain to match the brawn at scrum time. Hope he snaps the Oz front row like a twig.

  • Comment 56, posted at 18.08.08 11:52:09 by McLovin Reply

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  • Have to agree somewhat with some comments above regarding playing as a unit/gelling. But that might have something to do with leadership. Or lack thereof.

  • Comment 57, posted at 18.08.08 11:55:10 by McLovin Reply

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  • Thanks Siver fox
    I a sense i suppose they didnt jel as a team but oit started with the loose trio and kinda just spread. I also think they should slow down and stop throwing the ball around win the game with the donkey work and the tries will come

  • Comment 58, posted at 18.08.08 11:57:22 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 56) : You and Rob are ever so slowly drifting towards my strain of thought. A thought only at this stage. :idea:

  • Comment 59, posted at 18.08.08 11:59:06 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 59) : such huge brains take time to change direction ;) Inertia, don’t you know!

  • Comment 60, posted at 18.08.08 12:04:24 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : :grin: :grin: But let me help a bit. How old would the beast be?

  • Comment 61, posted at 18.08.08 12:09:44 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • Beast will become a legend in SA Rugby… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 62, posted at 18.08.08 12:17:47 by Charlie Reply

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  • C’mon guys, we cannot leave it here. That final push? :lol:

  • Comment 63, posted at 18.08.08 12:23:20 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 61) : ummm – 25?

  • Comment 64, posted at 18.08.08 12:27:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • turned 23 on 1 August. Can you believe it!

  • Comment 65, posted at 18.08.08 12:30:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 63) : what exactly are you hoping to deliver? ;)

  • Comment 66, posted at 18.08.08 12:32:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 64) : Right! I mean, I don’t know if he is 25, but, he is strong, intelligent, young? and we need a captain. So in order to become famous, hit a hotline to PDV.

  • Comment 67, posted at 18.08.08 12:34:28 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 66) : A great idea? :wink:

  • Comment 68, posted at 18.08.08 12:35:49 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 67) : Nah – Beast doesn’t have the captaincy temperament. He is the strong silent type.

  • Comment 69, posted at 18.08.08 12:43:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 69) : As was Hannes Marais. The guy has an aura around him. The people love him. Listen to them on the stands….going….And he should be a certain selection in my books…. It worked with Graham Smith, growed into the role.

  • Comment 70, posted at 18.08.08 12:48:01 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • Then again, some great ideas are stillborn!! :???:

  • Comment 71, posted at 18.08.08 12:49:48 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 70) : well, maybe… but it would be a panic selection at this stage, I think.

    He’d be a better skipper than Matfield, anyway

  • Comment 72, posted at 18.08.08 12:57:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 72) : We are in a situation that may justify a panicked desicion, with an eye on the future. At least PDV would be able to say, “I had to do SOMETHING.” And if it works,”I HAD to do something” Hope you read the pucntuations as intended.

  • Comment 73, posted at 18.08.08 13:03:44 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 73) : he he… you know me.

    Everyone else is having a LONG lunch today ;)

  • Comment 74, posted at 18.08.08 13:12:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • Did somebody say LUNCH?

    :roll:

  • Comment 75, posted at 18.08.08 13:19:52 by wpw Reply
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  • With the exception of Butch and Percy I thought our backs did quite well.

    FDP was not that bad. We lost the game due to too many mistakes and our forwards never supported the ball carrier.

    Where was Juan? CJ? Matfield? Spies? even Bekker???

  • Comment 76, posted at 18.08.08 13:22:51 by wpw Reply
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  • Did someone mention lunch???

  • Comment 77, posted at 18.08.08 13:23:28 by PJLD(RIP Bernie Mac) Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 75) : easy, chubbs ;)

  • Comment 78, posted at 18.08.08 13:25:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • Hey guys…I’ve just completed my session on the couch…feeling a lot better now…

    My solution for the Australia game: Take out old man Percy and Luke…bring on Conrad and Big Joe… leave the rest of the squad as it was…and hope that whatever muti the All Blacks used against us will not be effective when we face Aus.

    Yes…we were hammered at the breakdowns but we would’ve made something out of the game if it wasn’t for the awful kicking, passing, catching, running…basically…everything else. How on earth did all of our talented, WC-winning players manage to look less than ordinary in the same 80 minutes?

    Let’s just forget this game ever happened…and MOVE ON!!!

  • Comment 79, posted at 18.08.08 13:25:45 by blackshark Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 76) : Bakkies? Os? Moaner van Heerden?

  • Comment 80, posted at 18.08.08 13:25:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 75) : never evensaw your comment wes

  • Comment 81, posted at 18.08.08 13:26:31 by PJLD(RIP Bernie Mac) Reply
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  • Lunchtime it is then. :cool:

  • Comment 82, posted at 18.08.08 13:26:36 by McLovin Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 79) : you don’t think we should fire the coach? :mrgreen: :twisted:

  • Comment 83, posted at 18.08.08 13:27:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • Its all good Claytie. :grin:

  • Comment 84, posted at 18.08.08 13:30:19 by wpw Reply
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  • Beast would make an awsome captain. He’d call the ref sir, he’d growl at the miscreants in his team, and the country absolutely loves him.

    He’d be a very popular choice both politically and emotionally as he would have everyone’s support. He is very humble and leads from the front, you want a Vos or Teich or Krige type (the latter WITH a brain) who shows the rest of the team what he expects of them.

    How can Big Vic ask his players to give 150% when he is only giving 23% (and bitching at the ref non-stop, whining like a child).

  • Comment 85, posted at 18.08.08 13:30:42 by Baldrick Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : If the same thing happens this weekend…we should definitely fire our MUTI-man… :neutral:

  • Comment 86, posted at 18.08.08 13:33:04 by blackshark Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 85) : I tried to avoid joining the “shave Matfield brigade” but I’ve run out of options. Where the hell was he on the battlefield ? We need our John back…

  • Comment 87, posted at 18.08.08 13:38:35 by blackshark Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 85) : you reckon he gave 23%? He must be worse than I thought…

  • Comment 88, posted at 18.08.08 13:41:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 85) : Keep going fella, you are making a new friend here. :grin: Hell, if you can make Bald Rick sound Shakeperian, you must have some marbles. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 89, posted at 18.08.08 13:47:34 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • Shakesperian?

  • Comment 90, posted at 18.08.08 13:49:15 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 90) : teehee

  • Comment 91, posted at 18.08.08 13:55:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 91) : huh!

  • Comment 92, posted at 18.08.08 13:57:24 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • SI on: Men to Boys
    by Steve Smith

    I’m usually of the school of thought that says the coach has to accept responsibility for his team, both when they win – the easy part – and when they lose – which is the tough part. But I’m temporarily bunking school today. Sitting high up in the Railway Stand press box on Saturday afternoon, contemplating the weight of our defeat once Matt Goddard had blown the final whistle, I genuinely felt sorry for De Villiers.

    Here is a guy who made some pretty ballsy selections for the Test – selections that mightily annoyed certain folks. De Villiers picked a team of experienced players, most of whom had won the World Cup, controversially leaving Januarie and Jantjes on the bench. I thought the team that took the field on Saturday was probably the strongest De Villiers had chosen up until now. In fact I was helluva impressed with the man.

    But boy, did the team let him down. Yes he has them playing more expansive rugby than Jake, but the basic errors I saw on the field had nothing to do with the style of play. Seeing the Bok ball carrier isolated time and time again, and the poor kicking both out of hand and from the tee, was immensely frustrating to witness. Actually it was more than frustrating – it was surprising. I would never have expected seasoned World Cup-winning veterans to deliver such an immature performance…. And I certainly cannot blame the coach for that.

    Maybe the were too worried about making sure Percy’s 100th Test was memorable… maybe Smit’s absence was the factor. Maybe. Whatever it was, I would have expected them to have the mental toughness to overcome it. And at least score a point.

  • Comment 93, posted at 18.08.08 14:20:28 by wpw Reply
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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 92) : :)

  • Comment 94, posted at 18.08.08 14:22:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 93) : one or two break ranks, every so often. Good piece

  • Comment 95, posted at 18.08.08 14:23:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • 6 people so far have an unhealthy fondness for Matfield’s beard. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 96, posted at 18.08.08 14:24:57 by McLovin Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 93) : My feeling as well, excellent piece… :wink:

  • Comment 97, posted at 18.08.08 14:29:46 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 93) :’ Whatever it was, I would have expected them to have the mental toughness to overcome it. ‘ Reflecting my sentiments. After all is said and done, and we have vented our frustrations in a more or less accepted way, that is where the problem lies. And only they can fix it.

  • Comment 98, posted at 18.08.08 14:31:15 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 93) : Exactly what I wanted to say…but I guess I haven’t recovered enough to make that much sense.

  • Comment 99, posted at 18.08.08 14:32:41 by blackshark Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • but the basic errors I saw on the field had nothing to do with the style of play. Seeing the Bok ball carrier isolated time and time again, and the poor kicking both out of hand and from the tee, was immensely frustrating to witness. Actually it was more than frustrating – it was surprising. I would never have expected seasoned World Cup-winning veterans to deliver such an immature performance…

    The question is …can this terrible phenomenon occur 2 games in a row ?

  • Comment 100, posted at 18.08.08 14:36:43 by blackshark Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • blackshark

    It happened in the game against AUS in Perth as well as the 1st 30 mins against the Pumas. :roll:

  • Comment 101, posted at 18.08.08 15:06:52 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 101) : whoops… I suspect you’re right.

  • Comment 102, posted at 18.08.08 15:08:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • KEO having a go at PDV.

    PDV apparently subbed Burger cos he was playing poorly.

    According to KEO: Burger never plays poorly.

    What a tool!!! (KEO of course) :roll:

  • Comment 103, posted at 18.08.08 15:22:03 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 103) : NO! Really?

  • Comment 104, posted at 18.08.08 15:23:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • Mark Keohane
    August 18 2008 at 12:21PM

    That the All Blacks led the Springboks by just five points 65 minutes into Saturday’s Test was more an indictment of the limitations of the New Zealanders than it was a compliment to the performance of the South Africans.

    By all accounts the All Blacks should have been 20 points up at half-time and 30 points to the good on 65 minutes.

    Incredibly, one of the strongest Springbok teams in recent years went scoreless at home against an All Blacks team that cannot be compared with the all-round quality of the side that lost at Newlands in 2005.

    Perhaps the experimental laws have something to do with it, but that may be clutching at straws. New Zealand, led by the incomparable Richie McCaw, played to their strengths. The Springboks, naively, also played to the All Blacks strengths.

    Tactically the All Blacks were superior and they were also wiser in protecting Dan Carter from Butch James and Schalk Burger.

    Carter, in recent matches against the Boks, has been roughed up, but on Saturday no one could get close to him, and it had a lot to do with the service and pass of scrumhalf Jimmy Cowan.

    The Boks tactically got it 100 percent wrong because to frustrate the All Blacks and potentially beat them you have to slow the game down and play the game in their half and challenge them to play risk rugby.

    The Boks, in the first 30 minutes, took all the wrong options at halfback, and especially when forcing passes when offloading in the tackle.

    They tried to play an all-out attack game in their own half and it all looked very familiar to the first 30 minutes against Argentina in Johannesburg when passes were forced in an effort to play the game at a faster tempo and to implement this new style of play.

    Why this obsession with a new style of play that clearly makes the Springboks more vulnerable?

    The Boks, in winning the World Cup, had a formula that worked because the structure and low risk rugby suited the mentality of the South African player. The same players who were so impressive in France were awful in Cape Town and it has nothing to do with a lack of focus, desire or a World Cup hangover.

    What you have are a bunch of blokes so confused in trying to play a style of rugby they are not comfortable with and perhaps don’t even believe in. Coca Cola once tampered with their formula and they vowed never to do it again.

    The Springboks in the past had a formula that worked for them. It was not flash but it was favourable to the psyche of their players. When the Boks traditionally have been at their best it has been when there has been balance to their approach and very little risk.

    This conservatism has never been a bad thing because some of the great Bok wins have been based on disciplined defence being one of their
    attacking strengths, and on doing the simple things well.

    The Boks, through low risk rugby and brutal defence, have often suffocated the likes of New Zealand and Australia, who out of frustration play the risk rugby in their own half.

    On Saturday at Newlands the risk was all South Africa’s in that opening half an hour and there was no gain.

    The Bok coaching staff’s mantra has been for guys to play the situation, play it off the cuff and to express themselves.

    Peter de Villiers boasted before the international season that the Boks could beat New Zealand and Australia at their own game, but this was never going to be possible and it was never more evident than at Newlands on Saturday.

    The Springbok players, whose collective effort failed to yield a point, are quality performers who have been there and done it on the biggest stage, so it would be ignorant to lambast their pedigree.

    Schalk Burger, according to De Villiers, was subbed because he was playing poorly. Burger doesn’t play poorly, but in the rudderless team pattern on display at Newlands he was predictably ineffective. Similarly Juan Smith, Pierre Spies and a host of others.

    When De Villiers invested in the World Cup winners he should have also invested in the winning formula and tweaked rather than tortured their mindset. To beat the Wallabies in Durban he needs to let those winners play to their strengths.

    Because his insistence on making a point about a new playing style made for no points at Newlands.

  • Comment 105, posted at 18.08.08 15:23:47 by wpw Reply
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  • I just don’t get it!

    PDV selects such a strong side… the experienced guys stuffed up big time and now the coach gets the blame.

    Is it PDV’s fault that Butch, Percy, Matfield, FDP and Juan performed so dismally???

  • Comment 106, posted at 18.08.08 15:26:16 by wpw Reply
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  • And now Krige’s (Mr Rent-A-Quote) wants Luke to start against the Aussies!!! :roll:

  • Comment 107, posted at 18.08.08 15:27:24 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 106) : dude – it’s ALWAYS PDV’s fault… haven’t you got that yet?

  • Comment 108, posted at 18.08.08 15:27:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 107) : of course he does.

  • Comment 109, posted at 18.08.08 15:28:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 105) :
    “Incredibly, one of the strongest Springbok teams in recent years went scoreless at home against an All Blacks team that cannot be compared with the all-round quality of the side that lost at Newlands in 2005″.

    I want to ask again, if this All Black team are the poorest in years, and now according to this guy, this are the best Sringbok team in years, where the hell ARE we? Something don’t add up!!

  • Comment 110, posted at 18.08.08 15:28:49 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Silver Fox (Comment 110) : Agendas…

  • Comment 111, posted at 18.08.08 15:40:00 by robdylan Reply
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  • Silver Fox

    Its a myth.

    If the AB’s are so poor why can’t anyone beat them at home?

    The players who left for Europe couldn’t even make the WC semis and yet they are being placed on a pedestal by most SA journos.

  • Comment 112, posted at 18.08.08 15:40:46 by wpw Reply
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  • Assuming this is one of the poorest AB team in years we should then deduce that the current Aussie team is utterly abysmal – they took a pounding in NZ.

    Add to the above, NZ dominated the Super 14 and won it whilst our world class players were abysmal.

    To many assumptions and silly deductions.

  • Comment 113, posted at 18.08.08 15:41:28 by saffa_bok Reply

    saffa_bokUnder 19 player
     
  • I really liked Krige when he was playing, but seems he took one boot too many to the head.

  • Comment 114, posted at 18.08.08 15:41:35 by McLovin Reply

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  • Krige also said: “I’d contemplate playing someone like Ryan Kankowski at eight in Durban if (available) to make up the trio.”

  • Comment 115, posted at 18.08.08 15:42:58 by McLovin Reply

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  • Lets not forget 1996. Our World Champions got manhandled in our own backyard. Blown away in the first three tests, won the meaningless forth test. Joost jumped up and down with glee.

  • Comment 116, posted at 18.08.08 15:44:02 by saffa_bok Reply

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  • @McLovin (Comment 115) : nice idea, but he’s injured. Try to keep up, Corne.

  • Comment 117, posted at 18.08.08 15:45:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 114) :

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 118, posted at 18.08.08 15:45:12 by wpw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 111) : @wpw (Comment 112) : Yeah, as if the Boks doesn’t have more than their share of mental catching up to do…

  • Comment 119, posted at 18.08.08 15:47:45 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Silver Fox (Comment 119) : anyone know a good Mind Coach? I do … ;)

  • Comment 120, posted at 18.08.08 15:53:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 120) : Then why do you ask? :twisted: Who? :smile:

  • Comment 121, posted at 18.08.08 16:03:27 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Silver Fox (Comment 121) : his name is TG and he occasionally graces us with his wisdom

  • Comment 122, posted at 18.08.08 16:13:59 by robdylan Reply
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  • News 24 headline

    Give Luke a crack, says Krige

    I didn’t bother reading the article, but i sincerely hope he meant “a crack upside the head”

  • Comment 123, posted at 18.08.08 17:16:00 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 123) : maybe the two of them can just moer each other and leave the rest of us out of it?

  • Comment 124, posted at 18.08.08 17:58:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • 15 Montgomery; 14 Pietersen, 13 Franswa Steyn, 12 de Villiers (capt), 11 Habana; 10 Morne Steyn, 9 du Preez; 8 Spies, 7 Smith, 6 Burger; 5 Matfield, 4 Bekker; 3 van der Linde, 2 du Plessis, 1 Mtawarira;
    16 Strauss, 17 BJ Botha, 18 Muller, 19 Botes, 20 Grobbelaar, 21 Pienaar, 22 Chris Rossouw or Ludik

  • Comment 125, posted at 18.08.08 18:55:09 by Die Jood Reply

    Die JoodUnder 19 player
     
  • @Die Jood (Comment 125) :

    What team is that?

  • Comment 126, posted at 18.08.08 19:03:43 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 126) : There’s only one oke I know who spells francois that way :-)

  • Comment 127, posted at 18.08.08 19:13:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 127) :

    Hehehehehe :mrgreen:

  • Comment 128, posted at 18.08.08 19:15:12 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 126) :

    My Boks team.
    Could not I write it Sir?

  • Comment 129, posted at 18.08.08 19:16:46 by Die Jood Reply

    Die JoodUnder 19 player
     
  • @Die Jood (Comment 129) : No Adi Jacobs? :-)

  • Comment 130, posted at 18.08.08 19:22:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Die Jood (Comment 129) :

    you could write anything you like, I was just curious as to what it was. :wink:

    I thought for a minute the Team had been released early for some reason.

  • Comment 131, posted at 18.08.08 19:23:00 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 130) :

    No Deon Carstens? :smile:

  • Comment 132, posted at 18.08.08 19:23:42 by Die Jood Reply

    Die JoodUnder 19 player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 131) :

    No Sir, I do not know when it will be released.
    Moreover Habana looks injured…

  • Comment 133, posted at 18.08.08 19:25:12 by Die Jood Reply

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  • @Die Jood (Comment 132) : I reckon Deon is a better bench prop than BJ. BJ, of course, would be the best starting option, but he has already left

  • Comment 134, posted at 18.08.08 19:27:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Die Jood (Comment 133) :

    Keo has him as being out for 10 days.

  • Comment 135, posted at 18.08.08 19:32:24 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 134) :

    BJ has not left, Sir.
    SARU new policy enables to call up people playing abroad as Montgomery, Smit and Matfield last June

  • Comment 136, posted at 18.08.08 19:41:11 by Die Jood Reply

    Die JoodUnder 19 player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 135) :
    A bad news for Boks’ squad.
    In this case I would call Joe Pietersen of Western Province.
    He’s a very gifted and promising player

  • Comment 137, posted at 18.08.08 19:45:38 by Die Jood Reply

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  • @Die Jood (Comment 137) :

    Joe Pietersen?????? :shock:
    Ndungane’s?

  • Comment 138, posted at 18.08.08 19:51:13 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Die Jood (Comment 137) :
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Now I know for sure you are taking the piss.

  • Comment 139, posted at 18.08.08 20:10:11 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 24) :
    Sjeez Rob, I am beginning to think you never even watched the game. 1st you get the ref wrong and now someone has to explain to you how Conrad Smith’s try came about.

    The boks took 3 quick throw-ins. Two of which directly led to tries. Why would you do that if you have so many line-out jumpers?
    They also prefered to tap and run from free-kicks, even when the the element of surprise was lost. Why would you do that if you dominate the scrums?
    They kicked down field instead of out even from their own 22. Why?

    I’ll speculate. That is what the coach wanted them to do.

  • Comment 140, posted at 18.08.08 21:00:50 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 140) :

    Did he also ask Butch to kick out on the full from the kick-off?
    Did he also ask F d Preez to kick the ball dead
    Did he also ask the players not to kick out when going for touch from a penalty?

  • Comment 141, posted at 18.08.08 21:04:53 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 141) : Nope. obviously not.
    Those were poor mistakes by the players.

  • Comment 142, posted at 18.08.08 21:20:06 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 142) :

    Don’t you then think it is also possible that the untimely quick throw-ins and quick taps could have been silly player mistakes made in the heat of the moment?

  • Comment 143, posted at 18.08.08 21:22:23 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 142) : Interesting take you have here. So some silly mistakes was ordered by the coach while others were poor mistakes made by the players. A bit much for my old brains to comprehend, but everyone should at least have an opinion. :???:

  • Comment 144, posted at 18.08.08 21:27:08 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 143) : Nope.
    The pattern of avoiding set-pieces and running from their own 22 was clear to see and it did not change after half-time.

  • Comment 145, posted at 18.08.08 21:28:55 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 145) :

    So then the captain must be pretty pathetic to not be able to change the gameplan.

    How upset do you think a coach would be if the captain on the field decides to chenge the game plan because it is not working.

    in my book a coach would much rather be a winning coach than a losing coach even if it means the captain has to deviate from the set game plan.

    The bold sections below should have been prevented by the captain taking charge and calming and motivating his players.

    A week ago we were all very happy with the team that Pdv had selected. Does that suddenly mean he is a crap coach but a great selector?

    The players didn’t live up to their ability and that cost us not the coaching.

    Until the 65th minute we were only 5 point behind. Don’t you think the Captain should have become a leader and taken control?

    65 – Carter try! Going over on his back. On 14th phase. Through Watson and Steyn 0-12.

    74 – Mealamu try! Jean de Villiers gifted it to him with shocking pass after Steyn tried to spark something with a quick throw-in. 0-19.

  • Comment 146, posted at 18.08.08 21:41:26 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 146) :

    Sorry I meant to add, 65min is a long time after half time and the Captain should have taken control.

    oops already said that :wink:

    Well it can’t be said enough.

    THE BOKS LOST BECAUSE MATFIELD CANNOT CAPTAIN AN u/11 GIRLS NETBALL TEAM.

  • Comment 147, posted at 18.08.08 21:45:19 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 146) : The bold section was more or less a ” desperate times, desperate measures” time. He should have taken control wayyyyy before that. But then he was thinking about what he should tell the ref??

  • Comment 148, posted at 18.08.08 21:47:46 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Silver Fox (Comment 148) :

    I can picture his thoughts: “Kom nader aan die losgemaal asseblief ref? Ek het so ietsie vir jou” instead of trying to lead his charges.

  • Comment 149, posted at 18.08.08 21:53:50 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 146) : Yip. I fully agree.
    The Matfield failed big time as captain.
    But we are making progress. You have now acknowledged (kinda) that the original instructions could have come from the coach.

    On 74 I disaggree. I am a big fan of Steyn, but he gifted the ABs the try.

  • Comment 150, posted at 18.08.08 21:56:11 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 149) : He he he. Like the ref that ended up at the bottom of the ruck? :grin:

  • Comment 151, posted at 18.08.08 21:56:19 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 150) :

    I do agree that the game plan was wrong from the start. However once the team takes to the field the captain is in charge.

    What coach would “fire” a Captain because he changes the gameplan in the last 20minutes of a game and the team goes on to win the match? Matfield should shoulder MOST of the blame here not PDV unless PDV has issued some sort of Harry Viljoen style ultimatum to the team.

    On 74 I should have bolded a shorter portion of that. :oops: Those are Dan Retief’s match notes from Saturday BTW.

    Notes from here: http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2008/08/17/chickens-in-the-newlands-rafters/

  • Comment 152, posted at 18.08.08 22:08:32 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Silver Fox (Comment 151) :

    And he STILL saw the knock on :wink:

  • Comment 153, posted at 18.08.08 22:09:10 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Maybe we should play Spies on the wing because that is where he was doing most of his work.
    He is an awesome freak of a player but we can’t afford his auxillary style of play in our current loose forward combination. It is placing too much pressure on the other 2. The blend is just not working.
    Having said that, prior to the WC most of us on blogs always suggested that Spies was a better flanker than 8th man anyway.

    PDV needs to decide exactly what type of game he wants the Boks to play and then select his loosie combination based on this.

  • Comment 154, posted at 18.08.08 22:24:41 by Villie Reply
    Competition Winner
    VillieCurrie Cup player
     

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