KSA Shark ©

Jones rubbishes PDV gameplan


Written by Andre Bosch (KSA Shark ©)

Posted in :In the news, Springboks on 26 Aug 2008 at 07:40

Former Springboks assistant and Wallabies boss Eddie Jones has turned up the heat on beleaguered South African rugby coach Peter de Villiers, describing his much maligned new gameplan as “nonsense”.

Jones was a member of former Boks coach Jake White’s staff when South Africa won the World Cup in France last year.

SuperRugby reports that his comments come amidst rumours of disunity and confusion among the South African players, and after De Villiers, the first black man to coach the Springboks, was booed loudly by Durban fans after Sunday’s 27-15 loss to Australia, reports the NZ Herald website.

“The Springboks will get worse if they continue in this way,” Jones told English newspaper the Independent.

“Mate, no one in world rugby is playing the way their coach is talking about, not successfully anyway.

“Everyone has discipline, policies and a procedure in their game. The way he is talking is nonsense. You can’t just play an expansive, wide game.

“This is still a very good squad of players. Most are even at their peak or approaching it. So there is plenty of talent but what they need is the organisation and discipline.

“The hard thing for Peter is that he has never coached professionally and this is one of the most difficult teams to coach.

“They’re attacking off everything. And they’re going lateral, not through defences. You have to go through sides like Australia and New Zealand first.

“But he has to change his philosophy because it doesn’t fit these players. It’s not credible.

“Peter’s big test now is to learn. If he learns, he can turn it around. But if he continues to be stubborn, he won’t last long because his tactics won’t work.”

De Villiers has accepted responsibility for the Springboks’ slide since winning last year’s Rugby World Cup which has resulted in them winning just one of their five Tri-Nations games.

“If a company is doing badly, then you blame the managing director, so it is right and fair that the coach be held responsible,” De Villiers told reporters in Johannesburg.

“I know people are angry and rightfully so.”

But he also claimed the Boks were the better side at Absa Stadium.

“We should have won, the opportunities were there but we just let them slip,” he said.

“I’m not going to panic because, having watched the video again, I saw how great we played.

“Decision-making in split seconds is new to the guys and it has been a bit worrying. The onus is now on the players, but they want to be in a confined group where they are comfortable.”

South Africa clash with Australia at Ellis Park in the second test on Saturday and a loss there to the Wallabies for the first time in 45 years, would have De Villiers under enormous pressure.

Winger JP Pietersen was ruled out Monday with a hamstring strain and Odwa Ndungane was called into the squad as his replacement.

Hooker Bismarck du Plessis (knee) and captain Victor Matfield (groin) are in some doubt but flying winger Bryan Habana is an outside chance of recovering from a hamstring injury.



61 Comments

  • And this is why Jones is so unpopular with Rugby Admin’s the world over and so Popular with his fans.

    He AIN’T afraid to speak his mind.

  • Comment 1, posted at 26.08.08 07:45:50 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • I wouldn’t go as far as labelling it as nonsense…but it does need some fine-tuning…

    But he has to change his philosophy because it doesn’t fit these players

    :???: I thought the players have to change their philosophy to fit the plan.

  • Comment 2, posted at 26.08.08 07:59:42 by blackshark Reply
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  • @blackshark (Comment 2) :

    Sorry BS – IMO I think your opinion is wrong – it should be like a marriage..you give and take and compromise untill you find the perfect way which suites everyone best…

    BUT – I agree with Jones here in a way too…the players are the ones’ on the field, they are doing the work – and if they do it better a certain way – the THAT is the way it should go…NOT? Otherwise he must drop everyone that cannot play to his philosophy and raise new players to his hand?? Nah – I dont think so….

  • Comment 3, posted at 26.08.08 08:27:06 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • @I’ce (Rebel With a Cause) (Comment 3) : …the compromise expalins the ‘fine-tuning ” part…but the players need to adapt to the coaches plan here…that’s why we have a coach after-all. It’s not like he’s asking them to perform miracles…it’s still rugby…but with a different approach.

  • Comment 4, posted at 26.08.08 08:30:44 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 4) :

    Ok – but on the other hand – he cannot ask of them to perform miracles either… :twisted:

  • Comment 5, posted at 26.08.08 08:33:53 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • @I’ce (Rebel With a Cause) (Comment 5) :

    Sorry – misread your post.. :oops:

  • Comment 6, posted at 26.08.08 08:34:48 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • @blackshark (Comment 4) : Which is where the “mind coach” comes in because CHANGE is a very difficult thing to deal with…even if it’s good change.

    I wonder if the players were given a talk on “Dealing with change”.

  • Comment 7, posted at 26.08.08 08:35:21 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 4) :

    I still feel – a coach should “guide” the guys – his word should not be law finish and klaar…say you give it enough time and the approach does not work – then you need to get another plan and quick…

    I dont know how to explain myself – but i reckon the players are the more important steakholder in this instance and they should be guided to do what they do best – I mean – you cannot expect a Os du Randt to play dummy and sidestep like Adi (although he got close.. :mrgreen: ) – so you find him a job that would have a great impact on the game in a different area and in a different approach..

  • Comment 8, posted at 26.08.08 08:39:01 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • @I’ce (Rebel With a Cause) (Comment 8) : ALA Robbie Deans

  • Comment 9, posted at 26.08.08 08:47:13 by PJLD(RIP Bernie Mac) Reply
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  • @I’ce (Rebel With a Cause) (Comment 8) : Yeah you’re right…but this is a new relationship so it’s too soon to say it’s not gonna work.

    It’s gonna take a while for the player’s left brains to forget some parts of the old routine and absorb the new one…something about the fear of the unknown. But if the reports from the camp are anything to go by…both sides are trying to reach an understanding. To quote PdV: ” The day we click, someone will get a helluva hiding”. ( I thought that was funny :mrgreen: ). This guy must be something else to make such statements despite everything that is going on right now…and for his sake and all the true Bok fans, I hope he is right…and that day will come SOONER rather than later.

    Off to do some work…back after an hour or so.

  • Comment 10, posted at 26.08.08 08:51:46 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 2) :

    I would say the players that suit this style of play should be selected, rather than players changing.

    Obviously there will be players who can play both the JW style and the PDV style, but there are players who don’t have it in them to adapt to the PDV style, just as there were players who just wouldn’t make it under the ELV’s. I’m afraid those player need to be dropped.

  • Comment 11, posted at 26.08.08 08:53:28 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 11) : Sad but TRUE.

    For now he seems to be adamant though that the current players are more than capable of executing his approach. As much as we are saying the coach deserves more time…so do the players.

  • Comment 12, posted at 26.08.08 08:58:56 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 12) :

    YES!!! :grin:

  • Comment 13, posted at 26.08.08 09:00:41 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • Oh – and just a lst comment on the subject…look at the valke – the play exciting, attractive and running rugby…look where they are on the log…yes we love them – but sure as hell dont support them….. ne?

    :twisted: :twisted:

  • Comment 14, posted at 26.08.08 09:09:55 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • a little bit annoyed that they’ve broken so many Sharks…

  • Comment 15, posted at 26.08.08 09:12:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • @I’ce (Rebel With a Cause) (Comment 14) : I support them against everyone except the Sharks ;)

  • Comment 16, posted at 26.08.08 09:14:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @blackshark (Comment 12) :

    I think it is obvious though that they are NOT (yet anyway) able to execute his approach.

    So why not as suggested play the JW gameplan now and then use the EOYT to give the guys chance to adapt to his style?

    Imagine the deafening silence from the nay sayers if PDV had a great 3Ns.

    Why isn’t he doing that? Stubborn? My way or the highway attitude? F U I am in charge attitude? (or are they all essentially the same thing)

  • Comment 17, posted at 26.08.08 09:14:17 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 16) :

    Just trying to get my point across to BS… :wink: (sjjjj – but so do I!) Anyway – that is not SUPPORT SUPPORT…just support coz they are kinda underdogs.. :wink:

    @KSA Shark © (Comment 17) :
    Are you people actually agreeing with me for once?? :shock: :shock: :wink:

  • Comment 18, posted at 26.08.08 09:17:43 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 17) : that sounds a lot like Jake, Straueli, Mallet… in fact, all the Bok coaches we’ve had recently ;)

  • Comment 19, posted at 26.08.08 09:20:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 17) :

    EOYT = ? :oops:

  • Comment 20, posted at 26.08.08 09:21:43 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • @I’ce (Rebel With a Cause) (Comment 20) : Eat Only Yellow Tomatoes

  • Comment 21, posted at 26.08.08 09:26:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 17) : Like I said yesterday…there is no guarantee that the JW way was going to achieve better results than the PdV way in the 3N.

    So 1 of two things could’ve happened…

    1.PdV could’ve used the JW approach…won games and possibly the 3N…got people on his side… bought himself more time to experiment. Great stuff… :smile:

    2. JW approach…PdV results. Now what? A whole tournament wasted using a philosophy he doesn’t believe in…and certainly less time for him to try his own approach. :sad:

    Do you see how the man was caught between a rock and a hard place here?

  • Comment 22, posted at 26.08.08 09:26:39 by blackshark Reply

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  • IMO PDV are not asking the players a lot more than to think!!

    It was the obvious difference Saturday ( again ). But our players wants to have a set game plan that they will follow like zombies, and once the opposition has figured that one out, they are like leaderless sheep once again.

    I still say I can see what PDV intend, if he will get there with everyone jumping all over him after only a couple of games, well, that is another story.

    Forget Eddie Jones, he hops around to where there are easy money to be made and then shoots off his mouth. This is not about PDV, it is about anyone that are chosen to coach the Boks.

  • Comment 23, posted at 26.08.08 09:26:51 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : Funny, funny man :lol: :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 24, posted at 26.08.08 09:28:40 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @I’ce (Rebel With a Cause) (Comment 20) : End of Year Tour

    @robdylan (Comment 21) : :lol:

  • Comment 25, posted at 26.08.08 09:29:46 by blackshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) :

    Sies vir jou! :evil:

    @Silver Fox (Comment 24) :

    en Jou!! :evil:

    @blackshark (Comment 25) :

    And you get a :grin: and a :evil:

  • Comment 26, posted at 26.08.08 09:36:28 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • @Silver Fox (Comment 23) : I agree. Eddie has always been a walking mouth.

  • Comment 27, posted at 26.08.08 09:43:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • BlackShark and Silver I do agree with you to a degree, but I think the coach is asking us to bear with him that Rome was not built in a day, but that is exactly what he is trying to do himself. You introduce change slowly and within a structure! These players have been playing this type of rugby for at least four years, (and we know that is the type of rugby they are taught in school) it has now become second nature to them, PDV needs to now try and instill a change, he will only be successful imo if does this slowly but retaining a winning culture or he will ultimately fail as the players lose confidence and faith. I agree that what PDV is trying to accomplish will probably good for SA rugby but it has to be done intelligently using structures that the players who are expected to carry them out understand. Like you teach a child to be responsible and to think for himself in stages that the child can adapt to, I mean you wouldn’t send your four year old to the shop accross a busy main street alone, so these players have to be assisted to grasp their new responsibilities, which before this did not include thinking for themselves. End of essay!

  • Comment 28, posted at 26.08.08 09:44:36 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 28) : Maybe the changes wouldn’t seem so drastic if these guys could catch a pass or two…place a kick or two in the right spot…win a lineout or two…

    These are all the basics they are messing up…and have nothing to do with the new gameplan.

  • Comment 29, posted at 26.08.08 09:53:55 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 29) : that is the crux of it, if you ask me.

    It’s almost like the players WANT the coach to fail and are intentionally stuffing up basic things to make the coach look bad. I wonder if Francois Pienaar and Matfield know each other…

  • Comment 30, posted at 26.08.08 09:56:39 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) :

    Rob, that would be disgusting if it was the case. Deliberately losing is not the way to go about it if you are unhappy.

  • Comment 31, posted at 26.08.08 10:01:21 by Ollie Reply

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  • There was also an article not long ago from some journo that watched a training session and he indicated that the players were quite enthusiastic.

  • Comment 32, posted at 26.08.08 10:02:22 by Ollie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) :

    I doubt it…I really do

  • Comment 33, posted at 26.08.08 10:02:27 by I'ce (Rebel With a Cause) Reply
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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 28) :
    I hear what you are saying but I am concerned that he hasn’t got the extra people around him to assist, mental coaches etc;

  • Comment 34, posted at 26.08.08 10:03:45 by Ollie Reply

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  • Let me try for the third time. :mad:

    @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 28) : Dudette, that would mean to change a gameplan one should start at preschool level. At least here in SA.

    There are nothing new in rugby!!! You decide on a game plan, discuss it, practice it, play it. If required, you should be able to think on your feet and adapt should the situation require it, be it during a game or not.

    It all comes back to mindset!!!

    @blackshark (Comment 29) : @robdylan (Comment 30) : You guys are right imo, something smells.

  • Comment 35, posted at 26.08.08 10:05:17 by Silver Fox Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) : I defy you to find a springbok that woud deliberatly lose to the aussies or blacks…

    That is crazy talk.

  • Comment 36, posted at 26.08.08 10:12:36 by beez Reply

    beezUnder 21 player
     
  • @beez (Comment 36) : you read Ian Mac’s book?

  • Comment 37, posted at 26.08.08 10:16:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @blackshark (Comment 22) : This was never a one or the other decision. It has always been about the project management and delivery of PdV’s vision.

    He has gone for the big bang approach instead of a phased approach.

    PdV could have saved himself, us and his players massive pain by being more professional and realising this team is not his pet project.

    Results are more important than vision.

    The record books say SA won the WC not that we played really boring rugby.

    PdV could easily have come and said right in TN lets change the way the backs play and leave everything else as is. Then in game 5 -10 of his reign start with the loosies and their interaction with the backline, then the tight 5.

    This way he gets the right vision and at the same time retains his results.

  • Comment 38, posted at 26.08.08 10:18:48 by beez Reply

    beezUnder 21 player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : I did actually, but to be fair can’t remember it well enough to argue any point of view ;)

  • Comment 39, posted at 26.08.08 10:23:16 by beez Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) : @Ollie (Comment 31) :

    That would be really messed up.
    Let’s just hope it’s the usual new coach jitters and nothing sinister like that.

  • Comment 40, posted at 26.08.08 10:31:22 by blackshark Reply

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  • @beez (Comment 39) : Francois Pienaar led a core of Transvall players in an open revolt against Mac’s coaching and style of play

  • Comment 41, posted at 26.08.08 10:34:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @beez (Comment 38) : at the same time retains his results
    There it goes again…the retaining results thing…which is actually DEBATABLE…but yet it pops up as a FACT now and then…

    As much as I love the WC champ status thing…we shouldn’t forget that the WC is just a tournament that happens once in four years. You can win it by being the best in that MONTH or even YEAR (if we really push it)…or by the luck of the draw ( according to some people :roll: )…

    My point is …there’s a lot of rugby played in the 4 years in between…and if we’re gonna use the WC as the pinnacle of our ambitions…then we’re aiming too low.

  • Comment 42, posted at 26.08.08 10:38:05 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 42) : The world cup was just an example.

    Retaining results is only debateable to a very small degree – we have only won 1 out of 5 in this tri-nations with no improvement in sight.

    That is really poor.

    Considering the non debatable points:
    -> PdV took over the current world champions
    -> They were ranked number one in the world
    -> the core of his players were available

    Contrast with Deans who has taken over a team looking pretty weak and made them more competitive.

    What is not debatable is PdV is not delivering enough with what he has.

    Do you believe he is?

  • Comment 43, posted at 26.08.08 10:53:12 by beez Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 41) : But then so did England at this years world cup(alledgedly), and the idea was too win, not lose. Their final form showed that the senior players were on the right track.

    FP thought the style was wrong and wanted to win, not drop passes and lose.

  • Comment 44, posted at 26.08.08 10:55:09 by beez Reply

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  • @beez (Comment 44) : whatever the intention, revolting against the coach is just plain wrong

  • Comment 45, posted at 26.08.08 10:56:37 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 45) : Yeah Rob I don’t agree.

    Your coach is like your boss.

    If the boss sucks and he is affecting your performance and dragging you down, you try protect yourself and work in the way that you know will deliver results.

    Would you personally support a boss you think is totally wrong and costing you money? (win bonuses)

    I doubt it.

    That being said I really don’t believe that the players in the springbok team are revolting at the moment.

    England came second in the world cup after a mutiny against the expansive style being forced on them.

    The players leave with respect and the coach was issued marching orders.

    How is that wrong?

  • Comment 46, posted at 26.08.08 11:08:51 by beez Reply

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  • @beez (Comment 46) : I would never revolt against my boss. If I felt that strongly about it, I would resign and go work somewhere else.

    It’s called ethics… if I take their money, I do what they say. End of story.

  • Comment 47, posted at 26.08.08 11:16:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • Silver and BS, on the field they have to react quickly they have less than a second to know what their next move has to be and what the next guy is going to do isn’t that so? so they react on instinct, mostly! if for years they have been coached not to think for themselves but to do what was practiced on the field then you are not going to all of a sudden, after a few games only, develop that instinctive decision making skill that was drilled out of you. The ball dropping and knock ons I believe are a lack of confidence from the guys. Now PDV needs to do one of two things: either – change all the players to ones that can take to his way of planning, but I think we all agree that is NOT the best option and one I don’t think PDV is contemplating. Or 2. Implement your strategy in stages and against weaker oposition than the Ozzies and NZ, till you have mastered it enough to try it on the masters of the running game!

    I seriously doubt that the boks are trying to get the coach to fail, if they were they all deserve to get fired. I think that some who are slower in the iq dept like our captain take a lot longer to grasp what his new role is suposed to be! and so fails to martial his troops. I seriously believe that if Jon had been captain we would have won those matches, except that at the moment the only player turning any kind of ball to the Springbok’s favor is Bissie! and then you have that forward who misunderstand the role of a forward all together and stands in the backline to cover as what the Full back :evil:

    Finally I believe its totally unfair of all of us calling for PDV’s head, when he has two assistant coaches. And Sharks fans I ask you to look back at the Sharks S14 season honestly, were the Sharks not making the Exact same mistakes and tactically incorrect kicks, where is the common denominator? :sad: Now please don’t all kill me all at once I swear I am a Sharks supporter :neutral:

  • Comment 48, posted at 26.08.08 11:25:15 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) : That is a bit off sides and obtuse about ethics.

    Your direct boss does not pay your salary. He is a cog in the wheel.

    Unethical is not protecting the owners and all employees interest…

    Also it is not like the English rugby players could quit and join the all blacks at the world cup.

    Anyway the point is not that I don’t belive the springboks are in any trying to get the coach’s game plan not to work.

    And this argument is rather pointless as it is going into opinion.

    Lets agree to disagree.

  • Comment 49, posted at 26.08.08 11:34:13 by beez Reply

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  • @beez (Comment 49) : agree. Will buy you a beer and we can talk about something else ;)

  • Comment 50, posted at 26.08.08 11:41:30 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 50) : Carry on like this and I will never pass to you in touch rugby again…

    Oh wait I don’t pass to anyone ;)

    Beer is as always a good idea. Tescos value beers rock ;)

  • Comment 51, posted at 26.08.08 11:46:22 by beez Reply

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  • @beez (Comment 51) : you’re telling me! My old man arrived home the other day with 45 cans of Fossies which he picked up for £16!

  • Comment 52, posted at 26.08.08 11:52:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • SA Rugby and the unions employ the players.

    And, by the looks of the number of players in the foreign leagues, they are doing just that Rob. Resigning and walking away.

  • Comment 53, posted at 26.08.08 11:54:16 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 53) : They’re leaving because they can earn so much more money overseas, coupled with the “other benefits” of not being in SA, which we will not discuss here. It’s the same reason you, beez and I are all sitting in England right now.

  • Comment 54, posted at 26.08.08 11:58:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @beez (Comment 43) : Has PdV delivered? >>>NO.
    Do I understand why? >>>YES.

    Contrast with Deans who has taken over a team looking pretty weak and made them more competitive

    IMO…Deans didn’t inherit a weak team…it was obvious from the Super 14 that Australia were going to assemble a strong 3N team…but maybe that’s just me…

  • Comment 55, posted at 26.08.08 12:03:06 by blackshark Reply

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  • look, we need to be honest here. Deans is a FAR better coach than PDev is at this stage… the guy has won like 8 Super Rugby titles with the Crusaders, whereas Dev has never even coached at that level. Let’s not compare apples with grapes.

  • Comment 56, posted at 26.08.08 12:06:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • If the boss sucks and he is affecting your performance and dragging you down, you try protect yourself and work in the way that you know will deliver results.

    Haven’t seen any of that…

  • Comment 57, posted at 26.08.08 12:06:48 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 57) : salient point, my learned friend. If anything, they are doing the opposite.

  • Comment 58, posted at 26.08.08 12:11:59 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 56) : Yep you’re right…
    I’m not into comparing coaches anyway…unless they’ve both worked with the same team…

  • Comment 59, posted at 26.08.08 12:15:17 by blackshark Reply

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  • It seems one (or soem) of the Bok players are talking out of turn.

    Keo is reporting that Matfield got given three different instructions and three different game-plans before Saturday’s game.

    Now we all know keo can talk shit but we also know players run to him to leak news…

    Somebody, somewhere, is very unhappy about the way things go.

    Players who support their coach go into the laager when things are going badly… players that don’t support their coach go to the media…

    Food for thought.

  • Comment 60, posted at 26.08.08 14:08:16 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 54) :

    Very convenient excuse to use Robbo. Ja its all about the money. It’s not always and you know it. More often it’s about career advancement.

  • Comment 61, posted at 26.08.08 14:51:09 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     

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