KSA Shark ©

Western Province were bloody wrong


Written by Andre Bosch (KSA Shark ©)

Posted in :In the news, WP on 8 Sep 2008 at 18:31
Tagged with :

There was consternation in Bloemfontein when Western Province wanted Conrad Jantjes to go back onto the field after he had been in the blood bin. Western Province management were upset when Jantjes was not allowed to resume playing.

Rugby 365 reports that there was a similar incident at Ellis Park, as it then was, when the Lions played the Sharks earlier this year. Then the Sharks were angry with the timekeeper and were also in the wrong.

It’s not pleasant or good for the game of rugby when the visiting team clearly thinks the home team’s officials are cheating.

Not long before half-time Jantjes clashed heads with Robert Ebersohn, an accidental, passing clash, but Jantjes had to go off to have the bleeding stopped.

There was a stoppage and Jantjes left the field. The stoppage occurred at 32 minutes 12 seconds in the first half of the match.

At top matches in South Africa there are time keepers. The timekeeper at this match was Albert Mocke, a Bloemfontein headmaster. He received a report that Jantjes had left the field because he was bleeding. A stopwatch was then started to record the time that Jantjes was off.

The duration of the stoppage was 1 minute 24 seconds.

Also on duty at matches are two referees referred to as No.4 and No.5. They help the referee by controlling the coming and going of players. The two concerned in this match were Johan Wasserman and Sakkie Meyer. In addition there is a manager of the touch-line, in this case Schübel O’Reilly, the referees’ manager in the Free State.

The players went off for half-time. Half-time is presumed to be ten minutes but it need not be exactly so as the television broadcasters control the duration of half-time.

Also in the blood bin during half-time was the Cheetahs loosehead Wiaan du Preez.

The Cheetahs stayed within the playing enclosure during half-time and Western Province went to their change room during half time.

During half time, those controlling the coming and going of players spoke to the timekeeper about the two players in the blood bin. He told them that both players should start the second half.

Sakkie Meyer told the Cheetahs management this and when the Western Province team came back to the field Johan Wasserman told them that Jantjes should start the second half. Western Province’s team manager told Wasserman that Jantjes was still changing his jersey.

Jantjes returned to the field and did some jogging while the match was restarted.

The management of the Western Province told O’Reilly that the officials were in error as half-time was not a past of the time reckoned for the blood bin.

Law 3.10 TEMPORARY REPLACEMENT(a) When a player leaves the field to have bleeding controlled and/or have an open wound covered, that player may be temporarily replaced. If the player who has been temporarily replaced does not return to the field of play within 15 minutes (actual time) of leaving the playing area, the replacement becomes permanent and the replaced player must not return to the field of play.

Actual time means simply ordinary running time. There is no stoppage involved. This is distinct from playing time which allows for stoppages. In actual time – the time for everybody in Bloemfontein and beyond – includes half-time. If the 15 minutes for the blood bin have elapsed during half-time the player is allowed to resume playing with his team at the start of the second half on the preemption that he had indeed rejoined his team during half-time and so before the 15 minutes had elapsed.
The timekeeper can show that more than 15 minutes had elapsed before Jantjes attempted to return to the field.

The clock stopped on 32 minutes 12 seconds in the match. That was when Jantjes left the field.

Play continued for 2 minutes 25 seconds after the hooter has sounded for half-time. Accept the half-time as 10 minutes.

The time that had elapsed from when Jantjes left the playing field till the kick-off of the second half came to 20 minutes 13 seconds.

The officials were right to insist that Jantjes stay off the field. The Western Province management were wrong to be angry with the match officials. And, as they say, ignorance of the law is not an excuse, especially if it is a law affecting your functions.

There is logical reasoning why the blood bin is actual time and the sin bin is playing time. The blood bin is not a punishment. It is for the good of the players but it is reckoned that if the cause of the bleeding cannot be stopped within 15 minutes then the injury is serious and the player would not continue. The sin bin is punishment. The team is then required to play without the errant player for 15 minutes.



22 Comments

  • So that is what the hoohaa on the side of the field was about.

  • Comment 1, posted at 08.09.08 18:41:13 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • cheating ..as usual..whats new..along with the sharks who can get away with 16 players on the field..

  • Comment 2, posted at 08.09.08 18:44:49 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply
    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 2) :

    Dude we are only playing you in a few weeks time, it is waaaaaaayyyy to early to ‘soek” with us. :wink:

  • Comment 3, posted at 08.09.08 18:51:09 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • :lol:

  • Comment 4, posted at 08.09.08 19:07:42 by PJLD(RIP Bernie Mac) Reply
    Administrator
    Clayton(PJLD)Team captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 3) :

    :mrgreen:

    Im already nervous :neutral:

  • Comment 5, posted at 08.09.08 19:56:14 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 5) :

    Hey BTW, don’t forget to make your Guiness Premiership picks for next week.

  • Comment 6, posted at 08.09.08 19:57:55 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 5) :

    :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

    I swear I read that as “In all seriousness” a minute ago :shock: :shock: :shock:

  • Comment 7, posted at 08.09.08 19:59:28 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 7) :

    I must be losing my mind

  • Comment 8, posted at 08.09.08 20:00:54 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 8) :

    aren’t we all..

    Yea I totally forgot about the GP picks..but then I thought the AB Aus game was also on this past weekend…

  • Comment 9, posted at 08.09.08 20:06:05 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • seriously though we may be rather screwed , running out of locks…our depth is dog shit.

    we may just scrape a semi but I doubt we can go onto a final and win.

    my high hopes earlier in the season have diminished quickly.

    perhaps Rose can save the day. :grin:

  • Comment 10, posted at 08.09.08 20:09:01 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • i am pissing myself at the moment and the only guy out there who may be able to see what I am seeing in CSB.

    I am watching America’s funniest home videos 2008 on MBC 4.

    Whereas the ones we used to get in Sa were old and only some funny ones. the 2008 version is hilarious. everynight from 9-10 on MBC 4

  • Comment 11, posted at 08.09.08 20:15:53 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 10) :

    I think you will make the semi’s

  • Comment 12, posted at 08.09.08 20:17:30 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 11) :

    Ill check it out …need a good laugh.

  • Comment 13, posted at 08.09.08 20:38:03 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • From their website

    http://abc.go.com/primetime/afv/index?pn=player&itemId=5587046

  • Comment 14, posted at 08.09.08 20:49:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • you olde folk are trippy.i just disrespected a shiraz on a monday night.cooking is no good.

  • Comment 15, posted at 08.09.08 21:15:40 by PJLD(RIP Bernie Mac) Reply
    Administrator
    Clayton(PJLD)Team captain
     
  • @PJLD(RIP Bernie Mac) (Comment 15) :

    :razz:

    But we have experience at this age :wink:

  • Comment 16, posted at 08.09.08 21:24:22 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • EINA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://abc.go.com/primetime/afv/index?pn=player&itemId=363529

  • Comment 17, posted at 08.09.08 21:28:04 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • WP are still not happy it seems :smile:

    From 365

    Province fuming over Jantjes time-out
    Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:05

    The Western Province management are refusing to let go of the Conrad Jantjes time-out saga in their 35-17 Currie Cup win over the Free State Cheetahs in Bloemfontein at the weekend.

    WP team manager Chippies Solomon, the man at the centre of a public spat with time-keeping officials in Bloemfontein, confirmed that they will be getting in touch with the Free State Rugby Union (FSRU) regarding the Jantjes incident.

    The Springbok fullback left the pitch shortly before half-time last Saturday to receive treatment for a blood injury, but was not allowed to return to the playing surface in the second half as a result of being off the pitch longer than the allowed 15 minutes.

    Even though the Province management admitted the player may have exceeded the time period allowed for blood bin repairs, they felt there were “extenuating circumstances” and that touchline officials should have been “more lenient”.

    And WP will now write to their Cheetahs counterparts over the unyielding stance of officials and the “shambolic” arrangements.

    “Yes, my MD [Rob Wagner] will be addressing the issue,” Solomon said on Monday.

    “There were 35 minutes on the clock when Connie [Jantjes] went off [for blood], and when he went in there was another Cheetahs guy [receiving treatment],” the Province manager said, adding: “He [Jantjes] waited for another three to four minutes before they treated him and then the half time whistle blew.”

    While both manager and coach Alistair Coetzee admitted that Jantjes may well have been off the pitch for too long, given the circumstances, and the resources, they were disappointed with the actions of the assistants on the sidelines.

    “Logistically it’s a shambles there,” Coetzee said.

    By Peter Murison

  • Comment 18, posted at 09.09.08 06:39:46 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • they felt there were “extenuating circumstances” and that touchline officials should have been “more lenient”.

    Aw c’mon!!!!!!!!!!! The Law is the law and that is it.

    if there hadn’t been a half time period involved then he would have missed the 15min cut off by at least 5 minutes anyway so WP already had EXTRA time to get Jantjes patched up.

    Jantjes returned to the field and did some jogging while the match was restarted So Jantjes was next to the field when the match restarted? Whose call was it for him to do some jogging instead of going on before the game started? He should get the talking to from Wagner not the Cheetah union.

  • Comment 19, posted at 09.09.08 06:47:21 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 19) : Mornin Dude. Yeah, like you say the law is the law and that’s it. But the okies are treating as a lot of naughty boys that feels they have achieved a major feat if they can bend the rules a little to their side. Which off course distract a lot from the laws, insofar as making a circus out of it.

    The same goes for the dodo player that still try to get away with some or other illicit play, be it a pinch or a punch, while everybody knows the cameras are virtually unbeatable. But some will risk getting caught ten times to go unnoticed once.

    Dumb, dumb, dumb. Away, take them away I say!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

  • Comment 20, posted at 09.09.08 06:57:01 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • Province should have been more alert to this but i am a little confused as how half time can be included in a blood bin and this is where the issue comes in – there is no playing time so to include this in this time period isn’t very smart, the officials could also have provided clarity by communicating this fact with the Province guys and keeping them in the loop regarding Jantjies status.

    But the cheaters aren’t the cheaters for nothing, they were so good we hired their coach.

    :smile:

  • Comment 21, posted at 09.09.08 08:41:27 by Sauce Reply
    Author
    Worcestershire SauceCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Sauce (Comment 21) :

    The last paragraph sums it up nicely and answers your question as well.

    There is logical reasoning why the blood bin is actual time and the sin bin is playing time. The blood bin is not a punishment. It is for the good of the players but it is reckoned that if the cause of the bleeding cannot be stopped within 15 minutes then the injury is serious and the player would not continue. The sin bin is punishment. The team is then required to play without the errant player for 15 minutes

    Just like when we stuffed up and now in this case again, the teams can’t come and claim ignorance of the laws as a defence.

    talk about cheaters… Was it Rassie’s idea that touchline officials should have been “more lenient :razz:

  • Comment 22, posted at 09.09.08 08:55:06 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     

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