robdylan

What a shambles


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 17 Nov 2008 at 10:40
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Gents, this just might be the very beginning of the end of my faith…

Now, you all know that I’m possibly one of the biggest fans of Peter de Villiers that you’re likely to find. I was completely behind his appointment as I honestly believed he was the best guy for the job at the time. In a lot of ways, I really still do, but dammit, man – he’s got to pull finger a little! I was quite prepared to accept that the failings in the Tri-Nations were mostly due to the players not implementing the coach’s game plan (which Ian Macintosh will tell you is no fun for a coach) but it’s now starting to get a little ridiculous.

Either the coach must pick a team that suits his style, or he must coach a style that suits his team. Either way, we need to get everyone humming the same tune – and fast! The Boks are not playing like a team at the moment and are managing to avoid defeat through individual supremacy over their opposition. The synergy is not there and I fear for them coming up against England next week.

I’ve been pretty quiet when it comes to selection, being prepared to rather wait and see how things pan out before openly condemning some of the stranger picks. I’m afraid the evidence is now pretty clear to see – Brian Mujati is no international quality tighthead. As much as I endorse the experiment of moving John Smit one position over – I think it’s one that will deliver long-term benefits to the Boks, the Sharks and Smit himself – it is frankly madness to go on tour without decent tighthead cover in the squad. You simply cannot afford the situation where you do not have two capable tighthead options in your match 22. If I were the coaching staff, I would get the Doctor over to the UK immediately, regardless of the state of fitness of his little brother.

Ruan Pienaar is looking the business at flyhalf, there’s no doubt about that, but without Fourie du Preez at scrumhalf, the backline really does lose a huge deal of momentum. Ricky Januarie is one of those players who is either very good or woeful – never anywhere in between. Again, having no scrumhalf cover anywhere in the squad (except for Pienaar who has his hands full with his other duties) just makes no sense. I guess the cardinal rule here is that you ALWAYS have to have a hooker and a scrumhalf on the bench. it doesn’t matter if you have utility players elsewhere on the field that can cover these positions. Shifting around in game is always going to disrupt your continuity.

So now we have the situation where we have a squad carrying two serious injuries at hooker and scrumhalf. If we move Smit back to hooker, we have no tighthead. If we leave Smit at tighthead, we have to pick the greenhorn Ralepelle to start against England, with no backup. I say no backup because throwing Mujati in against Andrew Sheridan at any point in the game will be nothing short of suicide. To make matters worse, there is an injury cloud over Gürthro Steenkamp’s head as well. So, outside of Mujati, we have one fit prop!

The scrumhalf situation now looks equally dire. Assuming Fourie du Preez does not recover, we will be forced to persevere with Januarie at scrumhalf, or else move Pienaar back to 9 and open up a whole new can of worms. Frans Steyn or Earl Rose at flyhalf against the Poms? I’d rather take the former, thank you very much (why is Rose even on this tour?) bit it’s still not something that would fill me with confidence.

At least we have plenty of outside backs! The horribly out-of-touch Habana can be replaced by any of Odwa Ndungane, Jongi Nokwe or even Jacque Fourie. Man, I wonder if any of them can play tighthead?



274 Comments

  • I think you are spot on Rob.

    I don’t even get excited about the Boks anymore and had a choice to watch both the last two games only to change my mind.

    Rose, Rallapele and either of Habana or Odwa should never have been on tour and maybe you can add Mujati to that list.

    Also, Peter Grant should have been a definite as he can cover both 10 and 12.

    De Villiers is making some very strange decisions… :roll:

  • Comment 1, posted at 17.11.08 11:01:25 by wpw Reply
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  • Ok so WPW just agreed with Rob, this really is a shambles :!:

  • Comment 2, posted at 17.11.08 11:09:09 by PJLD Reply
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  • ok – so hindsight is a perfect science, right?

    But I would have picked the following squad, knowing what I know now

    1′s – Beast, Heinke
    2′s – Bis, Strauss, Chilli
    3’2 – John, Jannie
    4′s – Bakkies, Danie (must be bench lock)
    5′s – Vic
    6′s – Schalk, Brussow
    7′s – Smith
    8′s – Kanko, Spies
    9′s – du Preez, Januarie
    10′s – Pienaar, Grant
    Centres – Jacobs, de Villiers, Fourie
    Outside Backs – JPP, Conrad, Odwa
    Utility – Steyn

  • Comment 3, posted at 17.11.08 11:12:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @PJLD (Comment 2) : you’re telling me. About to go scrub the inside of my head with a wire brush!

  • Comment 4, posted at 17.11.08 11:14:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • rob you missed the biggest problem in the bok set up. three loose forwards that play identical rugby. Spies has put on a lot of bulk and is now more a bruiser than a runner, which makes him exactly the same as schalk and juan. the sharks success came from three totally different loosies. you have the quick defender (botes) that cuts down the opposition early, the bruising collector (deysel) that clears out and then your speedster for carrying. the boks have three bruisers that don’t clear out and aren’t fast enough to take advantage of the ten meter law. and definately not fast enough to tackle the opposition. how often did you see fred having to tackle. not often because jacques and frans/brad carried the duties. poor ruan was at the bottom of most rucks because juan, spes schalk and jean weren’t doing their jobs. a flyhalf needs to be available 95% of the game, and lying at the bottom of a ruck is pointless.

  • Comment 5, posted at 17.11.08 11:15:05 by try time Reply

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  • :evil: :evil:

    Hey!!! Watch it Papa!!!

  • Comment 6, posted at 17.11.08 11:16:34 by wpw Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 5) :

    So, in essence, wht you are saying is…replace the bok loosies with the Sharks loose forwards? :wink: I can live with that… :lol:

  • Comment 7, posted at 17.11.08 11:20:05 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
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  • how many times did ruan have to play scrummie cos januarie was under a ruck? 9 and 10 need to available to clear or attack otherwise there is no use in having a backline.

  • Comment 8, posted at 17.11.08 11:23:14 by try time Reply

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  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 7) : damn right. or at least replace schalk and spies with baywatch/botes and ryan.

  • Comment 9, posted at 17.11.08 11:25:13 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 5) : ok – fair enough.

    Wanted to have a little rant about Schalk as well. DOES HE NEVER LEARN? I mean, here they keep calling him “the best back rower in the world” and the guy still doesn’t understand the laws?

  • Comment 10, posted at 17.11.08 11:25:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 10) :

    I think it was the ref that didn’t understand the breakdown laws

  • Comment 11, posted at 17.11.08 11:26:23 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 10) : i ask myself every game he plays in: “what does this guy offer that the other great loosies in this country don’t?” and my answer is “stupidity”.

  • Comment 12, posted at 17.11.08 11:27:03 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 12) :

    Making twice as many tackles as any other player on the park?

  • Comment 13, posted at 17.11.08 11:29:03 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 13) : doubt that
    @Dive Pass (Comment 11) : i think it is pdv and gold that don’t understand the breakdown laws.

  • Comment 14, posted at 17.11.08 11:30:26 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 5) : I agree totally. The 3 loosies we have are goof players but not a good combo. With the player available in Eng at the moment my combo would be

    6 Brussouw
    7 Schalk or Juan
    8 Kanko

    This has nice variation and should compliment each other

  • Comment 15, posted at 17.11.08 11:33:26 by Pokkel Reply
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  • jacques botes and baywatch tackle and turn guys, schalk tackles and dry humps the guy while lying on top of him.

  • Comment 16, posted at 17.11.08 11:33:42 by try time Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 15) : love your freudian slip. “goof” players is right.

  • Comment 17, posted at 17.11.08 11:34:26 by try time Reply

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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 13) : Agree he still has a fantastic work rate but he is no fetcher thats why I would play him at 7

  • Comment 18, posted at 17.11.08 11:34:48 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 7) : and they would probably do better :grin:

  • Comment 19, posted at 17.11.08 11:36:59 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 3) :
    You still have Chilliboy in your side, if so then you must surely be happy with him playing this weekend. Surely you wouldnt pick him for window dressing, would you – maybe its a Boys High thing. :twisted:

  • Comment 20, posted at 17.11.08 11:37:36 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 18) :

    Agreed….the problem is SA have too many good 7s which is why White converted him…..I agree he is not a real fetcher, unlike Jake’s sons.

  • Comment 21, posted at 17.11.08 11:37:56 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 13) : high work rate, sure, but you can’t fault the ref for blowing him… he goes off his feet at every ruck

  • Comment 22, posted at 17.11.08 11:39:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 20) : Agree I haven’t seen enough of Chilliboy to warrant a spot in the Bok side. I would go for Strauss of Wepener. Wepener probably suited well for England conditiona

  • Comment 23, posted at 17.11.08 11:40:14 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Interesting conundrum to be in and not unforeseen by up or other rugby scribes when the teams were picked. That said there is a solution and it comes in the form of the sarries duo of visagie and de kock, both in form, both used to the conditions but sadly both forgotten to sa rugby.

  • Comment 24, posted at 17.11.08 11:40:59 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 20) : I have no issue with Chilli as the reserve hooker on the bench. I rate him incredibly highly. I just don’t think it’s fair to throw him straight into the starting lineup.

    If they want John to focus on playing tighthead, they need to provide adeqaute hooker cover both in the scquad and the matchday 22.

  • Comment 25, posted at 17.11.08 11:41:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 22) : you have to be on your feet to go off them. he more like tackles and slips over the guy he tackled and lies on him like a wet blanket.

  • Comment 26, posted at 17.11.08 11:41:37 by try time Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 22) : I don’t know Rob , there really were a couple of dodgy decisions

  • Comment 27, posted at 17.11.08 11:41:49 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 16) :

    I agreed with you the Boks have 3 clones in the loosies and need more variation but I don’t believe Botes is a good fetcher or “turner” of people he tackles….he has a good tackle rate and pace on attack.

  • Comment 28, posted at 17.11.08 11:41:57 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 24) : and yet they can’t even beat Gloucester :)

    Vin – you going to the game on the 30th? Sounds like I’ll be leading the Sevenoaks Saracens Supporters Club on a tour…

  • Comment 29, posted at 17.11.08 11:44:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 24) : wp players should be taken out the boks not more added in. other than jantjies not one of the wp players deserves their spot on saturdays performance. habana gets honourary wp membership in jantjies place.

  • Comment 30, posted at 17.11.08 11:44:22 by try time Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 27) : like?

    Seriously, I had issues with the consistency of Rolland the week before, but I couldn’t really fault the guy on Saturday. Boks dived off their feet or joined from the side at virtually every breakdown.

  • Comment 31, posted at 17.11.08 11:45:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 28) : but he takes a lot of pressure off 9 and 10. but that is why i threw baywatches name in there. i feel he should definately be in the team.

  • Comment 32, posted at 17.11.08 11:45:50 by try time Reply

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  • Actually the third wheel at sarries in van heerden could also provide the variation needed in the loose, being a genuine call hunter…

  • Comment 33, posted at 17.11.08 11:45:58 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • I saw Chilli for a few minutes in the Currie Cup final – and for that he gets a Bok call up. Agree on Wepener and Strauss – I wonder how they must be feeling knowing that they want to call up a prop to replace a hooker.

  • Comment 34, posted at 17.11.08 11:46:38 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • Personally I think we are going to get drilled on Saturday.

    PS. PdV was NOT the best coach for the job. 75% of the players said someone else was… :roll:

  • Comment 35, posted at 17.11.08 11:51:16 by klempie Reply

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  • wp player ratings, mujati 1 (i think he made a tackle but was out scrummed and gave away far too many penalties)
    jean 4 could have led more. never really saw much of him.
    schalk 2 for every good thing he did he cocked up twice.
    januarie 3 slow selfish and can’t kick.
    habana 1 has been shocking all year. he cannot catch balls and when he does he knocks it on. i cannot bare to see another replay of him grimacing from a chance gone begging. in the last 5 games he has played he has dropped sitters. 1 try in eleven games says it all. whats that nokwe guy got 4/5 in 2 games.

  • Comment 36, posted at 17.11.08 11:51:58 by try time Reply

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  • Rob – i’ll have you know gloucester is a tough team and historically in the top two or three in ingerlund. Try time – neither are wp players… Did you miss the memo? It was about 5 years ago.

  • Comment 37, posted at 17.11.08 11:52:23 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 33) : yeah i like wikus but not at 8. wikus or baywatch.

  • Comment 38, posted at 17.11.08 11:52:54 by try time Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 25) :
    Chilliboy is that hooker cover and I agree he probably is not adequate at this stage. What you are asking for is that they must protect Chilliboy but surely that should never ever be necessary for those selected to the top team in the country.

  • Comment 39, posted at 17.11.08 11:52:55 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 33) :

    Maybe they can give Visagie a chance to put his money where his mouth is as well. :wink:

  • Comment 40, posted at 17.11.08 11:53:42 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 37) : once a wp player always a kak player.

  • Comment 41, posted at 17.11.08 11:54:04 by try time Reply

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  • sorry guys i keep forgetting to use the smileys. :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :wink: :cry: :?: that should cover all the above.

  • Comment 42, posted at 17.11.08 11:55:59 by try time Reply

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  • forgot the dry humping comment that gets a :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :twisted:

  • Comment 43, posted at 17.11.08 11:57:05 by try time Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 35) : what do the players know? Do they get to call the shots? I mean, come on… do you know how pathetic that sounds? Last time the players tried to call the shots it got Macintosh fired.

  • Comment 44, posted at 17.11.08 12:14:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : That was after he’d been coaching the side and had a poor run. SAPS did the poll before the appointment, and it didn’t only include Boks. It was done amongst the provincial players too. Come on man! Meyer won a S14 and a couple Currie Cups! What had PdV done? The most telling statement was that of Hoskins when he said that PdV hadn’t only been picked for “rugby reasons”….At the time of appointment, Meyer had the credentials, PdV had an under 21 World Cup. Big whoop. We all know who got shafted for the Bok job.

  • Comment 45, posted at 17.11.08 12:25:06 by klempie Reply

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  • Sorry I meant SAPA of course. I have SAPS-firing-bullets-at-slow-pokes-in-the-fast-lane on the brain. :smile:

  • Comment 46, posted at 17.11.08 12:29:18 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 45) : who cares? Meyer is a rugby dinosaur in every possible way. He would have been a step backwards from White.

    Meyer beat the All Blacks in New Zealand? You’re dreaming, pal… he couldn’t even coach the Bulls to wins overseas.

  • Comment 47, posted at 17.11.08 12:31:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) : What are you on? You can’t win a S14 without winning overseas.

  • Comment 48, posted at 17.11.08 12:32:45 by klempie Reply

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  • isn’t that the big problem we have in this country. we aren’t developing coaches, and we are too arrogant to appoint foreigners. the best coach in the country at the moment is a kiwi. that doesn’t say much for things getting better. where do all our great players go that could become coaches? get great sales jobs where they are used to sell on personality. we need these players with coaching potential to be put through a system where they start with development teams, then vodacom cup, then cc then s14. but it has to be a national set up. sa’s biggest problem is the unions fund everything and coaches are the last thing on their mind.

  • Comment 49, posted at 17.11.08 12:32:55 by try time Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) : and pdv isn’t a step backwards?

  • Comment 50, posted at 17.11.08 12:33:40 by try time Reply

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  • “even coach the Bulls to wins overseas.” Is that Pienaar talking?? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 51, posted at 17.11.08 12:34:54 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) : hasn’t meyer got the record for most games won overseas. i know dick threw the chance of beating it away.

  • Comment 52, posted at 17.11.08 12:35:20 by try time Reply

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  • My main issue with PdV’s style is it’s completely hot and cold and smacks way too much of getting lucky on the day. Inbound tours went fantastically well and we have a great Trinations tour. Couple of weeks off and we’re in the doldrums. Then a face-saving win against Aus (which by most accounts was the players sticking it to PdV and going back to what they knew and then thrashing Aus. Couple months off and we’re rubbish again. Where’s the freaking consistency??

  • Comment 53, posted at 17.11.08 12:37:13 by klempie Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 50) : :idea:

  • Comment 54, posted at 17.11.08 12:38:40 by klempie Reply

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  • LOL! Robbo…Ice has just said on gtalk..

    “LLOLO..you and TT are gonna give Rob a heart attack”

    How close are we? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 55, posted at 17.11.08 12:40:12 by klempie Reply

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  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 51) : no – wins in this case is a plural noun

  • Comment 56, posted at 17.11.08 12:40:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 55) : I just think that living so close to Loftus has addled your brain… you’ve started to buy into the Oom Heynie MaakieAfrikaners(Bulle)AlmalBokke crap.

  • Comment 57, posted at 17.11.08 12:41:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 52) : I seriously doubt that. I will go and dig.

  • Comment 58, posted at 17.11.08 12:42:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 3) :

    I agree with your squad ..except..Chillyboy should not be there any which way you spin it you don’t have a back-up hooker who has hardly played any rugby for a better half of a year..whatever happened to picking players ON FORM???

    Wepner would be my choice , I’d have Nuller as lock instead of Andries oh my goodness I don’t like tackling bekker.

    J Fourie is pure class and we cannot afford to have such a player on the bench..Adi is in fine form so Id have him at wing.

    Habana is not well..you could see it in his body language.

  • Comment 59, posted at 17.11.08 12:43:27 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 58) : in 2007 he made it and the sharks had the chance to beat it but they sucked in that last game.

  • Comment 60, posted at 17.11.08 12:44:20 by try time Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 56) :

    ahhhh…my bad…it just reads funny… :wink:

  • Comment 61, posted at 17.11.08 12:44:22 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
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  • Muller :oops:

  • Comment 62, posted at 17.11.08 12:44:25 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 57) : Not at all. As TT inferred, there were better coaches than Heyneke that could have applied. I’m just saying he was the best on offer.

  • Comment 63, posted at 17.11.08 12:44:30 by klempie Reply

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  • If you think about it, Bok performaces are scarily similar to Stormers/Province results these days. They can be utterly sublime one week, and utter crap the next. It wouldn’t surprise me if we lose to Italy next time we play them a la Valke.

  • Comment 64, posted at 17.11.08 12:46:34 by klempie Reply

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  • Didn’t watch the match- but the result was disappointing. I still don’t understand how anyone would give the players high ratings after such a performance.

    Win the WC Final by 4 points against the tough teams – you can get high ratings…

    Win a Test vs Scotland by 4 points- most of the players must’ve been [email protected]

    Not too happy with the first 2 results – but I said I’ll judge this tour after the final match. I’m hoping the tougher opposition will bring the best out of the Boks. BOKKE!!!

  • Comment 65, posted at 17.11.08 12:46:39 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 45) :

    We all know who got shafted for the Bok job.

    Damn right we do. Jake White!

  • Comment 66, posted at 17.11.08 12:47:12 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • In 2007 the Bulls won 3 out of 5 games “on the road” including against the Brumbies and the Tahs.

  • Comment 67, posted at 17.11.08 12:49:55 by klempie Reply

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  • rob if i remember meyer was the first sa coach to get three wins overseas. sharks would have been the first to get three in a row.

  • Comment 68, posted at 17.11.08 12:50:22 by try time Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 66) : Got me there! :wink:

  • Comment 69, posted at 17.11.08 12:50:22 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 67) : One of the losses was against the Crusaders who they whipped in a home semi.

  • Comment 70, posted at 17.11.08 12:51:37 by klempie Reply

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  • right – I have the stats

    Heyneke Meyer as coach of the Bulls playing outside of SA:

    2000 0 wins from 4
    2002 0 wins from 4
    2004 1 win from 4
    2005 1 win from 5
    2006 1 win and 1 draw from 5
    2007 3 wins from 5 (against weakened NZ opposition)

    So, 6 wins and a draw from 27 starts. GREAT STAT THAT!

  • Comment 71, posted at 17.11.08 12:53:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • What is really getting me pissed is that I as a supporter have waited 12 years for revenge on the Lions after losing the series when we should have won…now 12 years on we have the team to knock the Lions over but its increasingly looking like we may struggle too.Another 12 years after and I’ll be close to pension.. :???:

  • Comment 72, posted at 17.11.08 12:53:12 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • which by most accounts was the players sticking it to PdV and going back to what they knew and then thrashing Aus.

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I don’t know why people keep suggesting this…it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever…

  • Comment 73, posted at 17.11.08 12:54:45 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : At the time of coach appointments, you look at the last couple of years. Not ancient history when he inherited what was a kak Bulls side who consistently finished in the bottom half of the Super logs.

  • Comment 74, posted at 17.11.08 12:55:40 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 67) : even a blind squirrel is bound to find a nut eventually.

  • Comment 75, posted at 17.11.08 12:56:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 73) : Come on. Then you basically have a short memory. Are you forgetting the immense public pressure that the Boks were under after the KP crowd booed them off and booed Matfield and Snor during the post match?

  • Comment 76, posted at 17.11.08 12:57:38 by klempie Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 66) :
    :lol: Every time I come across the “Who should’ve been the Bok Coach debate” in the blogosphere I can’t help but laugh… :lol:

  • Comment 77, posted at 17.11.08 12:57:50 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 75) : lol.

  • Comment 78, posted at 17.11.08 12:57:57 by klempie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : doesn’t jake white’s stat sheet look similar. it is about building a team for the prize, not stagnating.

  • Comment 79, posted at 17.11.08 12:58:17 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 68) :

    sharks would have been the first to get three in a row.

    I don’t understand.

  • Comment 80, posted at 17.11.08 12:58:36 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 74) : oh bollocks. So you ignore 6 years of utter mediocrity just because his one-dimensional side managed to burgle a trophy through an incompetent ref? WAAR’S JOU BLOU TRUI, ou pêl?

  • Comment 81, posted at 17.11.08 12:58:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • Another perplexing aspect for me is..What are Gold and Muirs input here…do they gel with PDV and discuss how to move forward..do the players buy into the assistant coaches ideas…

  • Comment 82, posted at 17.11.08 12:59:00 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • Meyer remains the only coach ever to lose EVERY SINGLE MATCH of a Super rugby campaign.

  • Comment 83, posted at 17.11.08 12:59:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 82) : I’m not a Gold fan. Stormers forwards were weak under his coaching and the Bok forwards look exactly the same.

  • Comment 84, posted at 17.11.08 13:00:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 76) : They weren’t under pressure when NZ was thrashing us at Newlands???

    They had the “secret plan” and they waited for Ellis Park to use it???Idiots!!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 85, posted at 17.11.08 13:00:29 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 81) :

    The scars run deep from ‘that’ game.. :wink:

  • Comment 86, posted at 17.11.08 13:01:17 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 30) : JDV???

    Dude, let’s forget the provincial bias.

  • Comment 87, posted at 17.11.08 13:02:04 by wpw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 81) : Oh yes, one dimensional rugby resulted in 92-3 v the Reds. They basically rolling mauled 13 tries up the middle… :roll:

  • Comment 88, posted at 17.11.08 13:02:45 by klempie Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 80) : bulls won three making the first team to win three times overseas but they lost to crusaders in between. the sharks had the chance to be the first to get three in a row but they choked.

  • Comment 89, posted at 17.11.08 13:04:16 by try time Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 84) :

    I agree , I do recall them being poor under him…which begs the question…why was he appointed :roll:

    I so wish that one day we employ a overseas coach with the credentials to coach a international side.

  • Comment 90, posted at 17.11.08 13:04:24 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 88) :

    Brainwashed!!! :evil:

  • Comment 91, posted at 17.11.08 13:04:54 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 86) : you think? :)

    @klempie (Comment 88) : shit, klemps… you DO actually support them, don’t you? Come on – it was the REDS, FFS… They were completely crap in 2007. Even the Griffons would’ve put 50 past them.

  • Comment 92, posted at 17.11.08 13:05:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 91) : Who? The Kings Park faithful? :wink:

  • Comment 93, posted at 17.11.08 13:05:39 by klempie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 92) : As in cricket when Jacques Rudolph got a double against Bangladesh…you still have to get them.

  • Comment 94, posted at 17.11.08 13:07:12 by klempie Reply

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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 90) :

    And the credentials are what??? According to you…

  • Comment 95, posted at 17.11.08 13:07:47 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 93) : You… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 96, posted at 17.11.08 13:08:55 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 85) : lol :wink: Lulled into a false sense of security eh? Maybe *that’* PdV’s secret gameplan?

  • Comment 97, posted at 17.11.08 13:08:57 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 92) :

    I’m starting to wonder if that Avatar isn’t infact the Bulls giving everyone else the finger, rather than the finger being given to the Bulls as I originally thought. :razz:

  • Comment 98, posted at 17.11.08 13:10:33 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 87) : one intercept only takes 1 minute, you still have to play well in the other 170 minutes. his distribution was poor in the first test and i can’t tell you how he played in the second as i don’t recall seeing him. i was a jdv fan but he isn’t performing well at the moment.

  • Comment 99, posted at 17.11.08 13:11:00 by try time Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 92) : didn’t the sharks lose to them?

  • Comment 100, posted at 17.11.08 13:12:07 by try time Reply

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  • Maybe the team and coaches are just tired after the long season :oops:

  • Comment 101, posted at 17.11.08 13:12:15 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Now for the Poms!!! :twisted:

    At the end of the day we are coming back with 3/3 from the TOUR.

  • Comment 102, posted at 17.11.08 13:13:08 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 98) : it’s bad enough we have honest bulls fans here… having undercover ones is even worse.

    Klempie is obviously very annoyed that we actually won the Currie Cup this year, because it weakens his arguement.

  • Comment 103, posted at 17.11.08 13:13:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 98) : You can say that again… :smile:

  • Comment 104, posted at 17.11.08 13:13:51 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 97) : A meta-gameplan if you will.

  • Comment 105, posted at 17.11.08 13:14:01 by klempie Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 101) : Like the Aussies and ABs? :???:

  • Comment 106, posted at 17.11.08 13:14:23 by klempie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 92) : Ok Rob so who would you have appointed as coach at the time . I don’t think you can include Plumtree cause he still didn’t have the CC under his belt

  • Comment 107, posted at 17.11.08 13:14:52 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 95) :

    Having coached a international team in an international season hence a international coach..DUH!

    Someone with a bit streetwise to the rigors of coaching in the international arena.

    Ofcourse he must have been successful at it.

  • Comment 108, posted at 17.11.08 13:15:04 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 106) : Didn’t think you would fall for that. :wink:

  • Comment 109, posted at 17.11.08 13:15:50 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 100) :

    Not since 2005.

  • Comment 110, posted at 17.11.08 13:15:51 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 103) : :lol:

  • Comment 111, posted at 17.11.08 13:16:15 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Hey klempie…here’s an easy test…touch the sides of your head…do you feel anything protruding from it??? :neutral:

  • Comment 112, posted at 17.11.08 13:16:22 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @KSA (Comment 98)
    @robdylan (Comment 103):

    You guys are a riot. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 113, posted at 17.11.08 13:16:44 by klempie Reply

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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 112) : A big rubbery Shark fin. :grin:

  • Comment 114, posted at 17.11.08 13:17:18 by klempie Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 100) : Sharks put 57 points past them in Brisbane. Another closet Bull?

  • Comment 115, posted at 17.11.08 13:17:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 101) : then use the year end tour to try out your youngsters. and pdv shouldn’t be tired.

  • Comment 116, posted at 17.11.08 13:18:09 by try time Reply

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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 108) :

    By international season you mean the Super 14 ?

  • Comment 117, posted at 17.11.08 13:18:32 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 107) : I was behind de Villiers’ appointment 100% and I still am.

  • Comment 118, posted at 17.11.08 13:19:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 116) :
    and pdv shouldn’t be tired.

    hehehehehe

  • Comment 119, posted at 17.11.08 13:20:05 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 106) : We should be all over the NH teams with game time we’ve had under the ELV’s . I still think that the interpretation of the law’s are making it difficult for the Boks. Rob might be right that the refs blew the laws , but if the laws are going to be blown that way we will never seen entertaining rugby again . Refs should asses the situation and create some continuity else this game is dead. You can blow the whistle at ANY ruck or maul for some offence if you try hard enough

  • Comment 120, posted at 17.11.08 13:20:09 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Boks must keep their hands off Plum. He’s OURS

  • Comment 121, posted at 17.11.08 13:21:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 116) :

    and pdv shouldn’t be tired.

    Is that a typo? did you mean “fired”?

  • Comment 122, posted at 17.11.08 13:22:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 120) : that is definitely true.

  • Comment 123, posted at 17.11.08 13:23:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 117) :

    well that would be a bonus..why all the questions..do you have something to say.. :evil:

    I just think that the Boks could thrive under a foreign coach no provincial bias for a start and I would be pretty excited to see what a coach like lets say Deans could achieve with the talent in this country.

  • Comment 124, posted at 17.11.08 13:23:15 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 122) : he he… same thought occurred to me

  • Comment 125, posted at 17.11.08 13:23:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 120) :

    And it’s not just the Boks. Look at what happened to Aus against Italy. and to an extent against England as well.

    They only beat England because of better discipline.

    How many Aussies are calling for Deans to be sacked? Very few.

  • Comment 126, posted at 17.11.08 13:25:05 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 124) : at this point, klempie or TT will point out that no foreign coach would ever accept the political meddling in SA Rugby…

  • Comment 127, posted at 17.11.08 13:25:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 120) : Pok. No doubt the refs are making it difficult but I don’t believe that they are the cause of most of the problems because I have seen this lack of fluidity in the trinations home games as well. It’s the “play what’s in front of you” PdV approach that’s causing it.

  • Comment 128, posted at 17.11.08 13:26:45 by klempie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 123) : The one situation that comes to mind is when we where on the attack about 5 m from the Scott’s tryline. Schalk and Juan ‘cleaned out and was penilised for going of their feet. I don’t think Schalk was ever on the ground

  • Comment 129, posted at 17.11.08 13:26:46 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 121) : Agree with that.

  • Comment 130, posted at 17.11.08 13:27:07 by klempie Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 99) :

    Let me guess, Frans Steyn at 12 and JF at 13.

    You so damn predictable. When the Boks play badly its becos of the WP players in the side… !

  • Comment 131, posted at 17.11.08 13:28:43 by wpw Reply
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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 124) :

    Just wanted to understand your point better…

  • Comment 132, posted at 17.11.08 13:28:53 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • A question, why is it always Muir doing all the talking on the mike and not De Villiers?…. no smart comments about the support staff not understanding his helium voice.

    I hope the Bok’s get there act together ASAP…..I could not deal with another Lions series win as in 1997….Jeremy Gascott and pals became unbearably arrogant.

    Do you guys know of a website with Sharks players stats for the last decade?…..Sharks Rugby only seems to go back one season.

  • Comment 133, posted at 17.11.08 13:30:10 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 129) : was Juan on his feet? Only one guy has to go off his feet, hey…

  • Comment 134, posted at 17.11.08 13:30:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 115) : no, but it is right to give credit where it is due. i never liked heyneke but i like(d) pdv less.

  • Comment 135, posted at 17.11.08 13:30:27 by try time Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 128) : I take it you prefer the “play what’s behind you” approach… :roll:

  • Comment 136, posted at 17.11.08 13:30:44 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 129) :

    I am afraid i have to stick up for the ref on that particular occasion (surprise surprise :wink: )

    Schalk came in and cleaned out like a plane nose diving into the ground rather than a plane taking off. ie. his body was pointing downwards. He may not have ended up on the ground but only because he was on top of other bodies. On THIS occasion the ref was right to nail him IMO.

  • Comment 137, posted at 17.11.08 13:31:22 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 127) : Well, none who don’t live and have family here at any rate…

  • Comment 138, posted at 17.11.08 13:31:29 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 132) :

    Okay..Im not good at making myself clear at the best of times..Its time we give it a try though..we have nothing to lose and lets face it SA isn’t exactly brimming with coaches that have international experience and successful at it.

  • Comment 139, posted at 17.11.08 13:31:59 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 131) : damn right. no brain science there. i’d actually give jdv another run, and jacque on his outside if we are going to play the rugby pdv is currently playing. adi is wasted in this style of rugby.

  • Comment 140, posted at 17.11.08 13:32:48 by try time Reply

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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 133) :

    what specific stat are you looking for?

  • Comment 141, posted at 17.11.08 13:32:50 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Many factors contributes currently to the state of affairs.

    Obvious ones, referees and interpretations, but as I always tell my players you win despite of referees, not because of them, so dont always look to them when you lose that you lost because of them.

    Secondly, if these rumours are true that players are deliberately going against the coaching team, then PDV needs to clean house.

    Too many so-called superstars calling shots if this is the case and the tail never wags the dog.

    Peter now has come to a point a lot of coaches come to, and the decision for him now will shape his future.

    In my mind he has to make the tough calls now, be hated by most as most hated almost every Bok coach before him (including White) and clean house, and pick guys that does buy into his style of playing, or he must coach the White way in which he will fail dismally.

    Example of two coaches going two different ways to what I am saying on top here is Harry Viljoen, who did not want to piss too many off and sold his soul (and vision and game plan) when the pressure was on (remember how revolutionary he was at the start and ended up picking Braam at 12…), and Jake White who pissed everyone one of, including most fans and made those tough calls, stuck to his vision, and in the end achieved what he set out to do.

    Peter is there now, he needs to make the call, and in my mind I hope he cleans house.

  • Comment 142, posted at 17.11.08 13:33:09 by MorneN Reply
    Author
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  • @robdylan (Comment 134) :

    Rob you listen to the unbiased British commentary on that breakdown….we listened to the unbiased Kobus Wiese and co., with Naas have his 5c worth at half time.

  • Comment 143, posted at 17.11.08 13:33:15 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 127) : for enough money they wouldn’t give a …

  • Comment 144, posted at 17.11.08 13:33:53 by try time Reply

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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 133) : what sort of stats?

  • Comment 145, posted at 17.11.08 13:34:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 133) :

    Try sarugby.com…they have most player profiles plus stats…if I remember correctly..

  • Comment 146, posted at 17.11.08 13:34:25 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 136) : I prefer the ” _look_ what’s in front of you, _place_ what’s in front of you in game context, _make_ a decision based on game context, and play according to the game context” approach.

  • Comment 147, posted at 17.11.08 13:34:32 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 141) :

    Basic stats KSA….number of games played in a season, total caps maybe points etc

  • Comment 148, posted at 17.11.08 13:34:32 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • Can someone please post JW’s Tri Nations record???

    Did he not lose 3 out of 4 in 2006??? including the 0-49 loss in Sydney??

    :shock: :shock:

  • Comment 149, posted at 17.11.08 13:35:11 by wpw Reply
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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 133) : helium voice! ROFL

  • Comment 150, posted at 17.11.08 13:35:39 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 128) : I think that not everybody in the Bok setup is buying into the gameplan and it shows. The Boks don’t seem to have any gameplan and PdV doesn’t have the authority that a coach should have

  • Comment 151, posted at 17.11.08 13:36:16 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 137) :

    Thats the thing with you ref’s (you refs :) ) you apply the letter of the law only when it suits you.

    technically, yes you can blow him up.

    But then comes this thing refs love so much, interpretation.

    What effect, if any, did Schalks actions have?

    He ‘cleared’ a player from the ruck not so? Effectively a tackle?

  • Comment 152, posted at 17.11.08 13:36:35 by MorneN Reply
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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 143) :

    Yeah but Naas made a fool of himself at half-time.

    He commented on how the ref called “taken in” when the Welsh took the ball into their 22 before they kicked. Something along the lines of “why must he help the Welsh… blah blah blah”

    Now if only he went and read the ELS and saw that is mentiones that the ref has to call that wether it is done to remind the team in possesion or whoever is open to interpretation.

    Ther are none so blind as those who do not WANT to see. And most commentators do not WANT to see.

  • Comment 153, posted at 17.11.08 13:36:46 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @try time (Comment 140) : How the hell can you drop our best backline player???

    Shows just how much you know…

  • Comment 154, posted at 17.11.08 13:37:43 by wpw Reply
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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 139) :

    True…anyway…we’ll see what PdV will have on his table when his contract runs out.

    Re: international coach – who do you have in mind?

  • Comment 155, posted at 17.11.08 13:37:52 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 146) :

    Thanks Ice….That’s a good site for Bok stats but not Shark stats

  • Comment 156, posted at 17.11.08 13:38:01 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive PassCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Dive Pass (Comment 143) : yeah… fair enough. So I guess it’s inevitable we’ll see it differently.

    You know what really irritates me here? It’s de Villiers getting the flack for stuff that goes wrong, but Jake White getting the credit for the things that go right.

  • Comment 157, posted at 17.11.08 13:39:30 by robdylan Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 126) : maybe because aussies problems aren’t at coach. the last i checked the lack of players were their problem.

  • Comment 158, posted at 17.11.08 13:39:41 by try time Reply

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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 148) :

    Search your player on sarugby.com…

  • Comment 159, posted at 17.11.08 13:40:22 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 153) :

    Agreed….but I wont continue with my general opinion of Naas’s commentary, there too many Bulls in Sharks clothes here ;)

  • Comment 160, posted at 17.11.08 13:40:31 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 159) : @Dive Pass (Comment 156) :

    Ok….sorry!

  • Comment 161, posted at 17.11.08 13:40:49 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 149) :
    Here is Jake’s career record :

    Year Played Won Lost Drew Win ratio (%)
    2004 13 9 4 69
    2005 12 8 3 1 67
    2006 12 5 7 42
    2007 17 14 3 82
    TOTAL 54 36 17 1 67

  • Comment 162, posted at 17.11.08 13:40:59 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @MorneN (Comment 152) :

    You asked the wrong question. :wink:

    Him going to ground (pointing towards the ground not actually going TO ground) so let’s say going in the direction of the ground, then gives him an unfair advantage as it is much more difficult for him to be counter cleaned legally if he is facing downwards. If he had cleaned legally and then stayed head above hips he could have been counter cleaned.

    He didn’t so PK Wales.

    What you should have asked :wink: was howcome he only blew it maybe three or four times in the match when it was happening regularly? ( I dunno the answer to that one)

  • Comment 163, posted at 17.11.08 13:41:02 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 137) : yeah agree. schalk and bakkies like the dive in approach. must have misinterpreted what the coach meant when he said ” i want you to dive in and get that ball out…”

  • Comment 164, posted at 17.11.08 13:42:46 by try time Reply

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  • I think we need to all get a serious dose of reality here. Jake White is gone and as much as we all started to love him after the fact, I have a pretty long memory. EVERYBODY was out for his blood in 2006 and his 3N record that year was appalling. Anyway – he cooked his own goose and his position was untenable. He is gone and we need to get behind the new coach. That includes the players.

  • Comment 165, posted at 17.11.08 13:42:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 149) :

    Terrible stats those…luckly for some he will be remembered for a Tri-Nation trophy in his first season incharge and a WC in his last season..thats what he’ll be measured by.

  • Comment 166, posted at 17.11.08 13:43:09 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 163) : wow – penalty Wales! Impressive :)

  • Comment 167, posted at 17.11.08 13:44:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 137) : @MorneN (Comment 152) : I can guarentee you that incident would not have been blown during the Super 14 or the Tri Nations. The players are confused and I don’t blame them. Now they are not even allowed to meet with the refs before the game. Madness

  • Comment 168, posted at 17.11.08 13:45:01 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 147) : You must be PdV…

  • Comment 169, posted at 17.11.08 13:46:30 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 166) : the important thing here is to realise that ALL Bok coaches go through bad patches. We need to back the guy in charge and give him what he needs to be successful. There’s no point in picking a rookie of you’re going to crucify him the first time he makes a mistake. That thinking got us 6 coaches in 5 years between 92 and 97…

  • Comment 170, posted at 17.11.08 13:47:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 154) : adi is not suiting this style of rugby. i did say if the boks stick to this style of rugby then adi must come off the bench. on saturday jacque fourie did more work in 20 minutes than adi did all game.

  • Comment 171, posted at 17.11.08 13:47:50 by try time Reply

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  • Foreigner coaching SA!!! How many applied for the honour of coaching the world champs??

  • Comment 172, posted at 17.11.08 13:49:21 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 170) : BUT is it nessesary that we reinvent the wheel everytime we get a new coach?

  • Comment 173, posted at 17.11.08 13:50:44 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 166) : Parabolic curve.

  • Comment 174, posted at 17.11.08 13:50:58 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • Guys seriously this gets to me…as soon as anyone critizes the current coach then it is presumed that ‘we’ are missing JW..that is not the case here with me I support PDV and yes everyone goes through bad patches but lets face it with the quality of team we currently have something is seriously wrong here..

    My suggestion of a foreign coach has nothing to do with what PDV is upto at the moment..I just always thought we’d gain from such an experience.

  • Comment 175, posted at 17.11.08 13:53:05 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 170) : he should never have been hired in the first place. that is where we get it wrong. a better system needs to be set up when appointing coaches. i would like to see a foreigner training to south africans. so when he goes we can choose the better of the two.

  • Comment 176, posted at 17.11.08 13:53:11 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 171) : Bollocks. You watched a different game. Adi was superb.

    @Pokkel (Comment 173) : define “re-invent the wheel”… Each coach will have his own ideas and own philosophy. That’s reality. There will always be a period of adjustment. de Villiers is not White. He does not want to play White’s game or use White’s “wheel” as-is. That’s his prerogative and his right. If the players can’t get it into their heads that White is gone, then they should step aside.

  • Comment 177, posted at 17.11.08 13:54:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 172) : were they invited? no.

  • Comment 178, posted at 17.11.08 13:54:46 by try time Reply

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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 174) :

    I stick up for JW cause for me he pulled Bok rugby out of a hole..but I also glad that he didn’t get another term after the WC..he offered all he could to Bok rugby.

  • Comment 179, posted at 17.11.08 13:55:34 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 176) : you are right that coaching structures in SA are a mess… coaches are hired and fired without any thought for development, progression through the ranks, or even due process.

  • Comment 180, posted at 17.11.08 13:56:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • i better do some work. i don’t even know why i am wasting so much time on a non sharks team. who cares if they fail. they should be used to it by now. call me when we talk about a real rugby team.

  • Comment 181, posted at 17.11.08 13:57:09 by try time Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 180) : exactly and the quickest way to fix it up is to hire a foreigner to coach the boks and let it filter down from there.

  • Comment 182, posted at 17.11.08 13:58:19 by try time Reply

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  • Morne has this spot on in an article he wrote on his website. If you’re going to fire de Villiers, you have to do it based on the fact that the 22 players are out there playing to HIS GAME PLAN and that it isn’t working. Mac got fired because he had 3/4 of his team (which were selected for him) trying to implement Kitch Christie’s gameplan on Mac’s watch.

  • Comment 183, posted at 17.11.08 13:58:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 177) :

    Isn’t that all specultion though ..

  • Comment 184, posted at 17.11.08 14:00:18 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 177) :

    Coaches coach to their strengths, same as players play to theirs.

    Coach is the guy in charge, he needs to dictate terms and players, if they can, fall in with that.

    PDV was/is naive for me in thinking he could coach his style, with JW mentality or players under that mentality.

    Same as Ludeke thought he could just walk in after Heyneke and make the final of the S14 again.

    You will always have transition periods, what PDV needs to do now is assess who works for him or in line with what he wants to do, and who does not (after 1 full season).

    And then take it from there.

    Making the tough calls.

  • Comment 185, posted at 17.11.08 14:00:29 by MorneN Reply
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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 175) : Sometimes it’s not reinventing the wheel but merely changing the tyre from Michelin to Bridgestone.

    Coaches come and go – and if there’s a suitable foreigner for the Bok job after PdV’s term…then why not??? Like Plum after leading the Sharks to 5 consecutive titles… :twisted:

  • Comment 186, posted at 17.11.08 14:00:33 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 183) : yes but pdv chose his team. he made sure it was in his contract. he put his head on the block to be chopped.

  • Comment 187, posted at 17.11.08 14:01:02 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 187) : the scary thing is he re chose the team after a shocking tri nations.

  • Comment 188, posted at 17.11.08 14:02:40 by try time Reply

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  • Id pick Ludeke as coach :shock: :smile:

  • Comment 189, posted at 17.11.08 14:04:17 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 182) : eh? That’s a huge leap…

    I was behind John Mitchell for Bok coach… I thought they should have brought him in to replace White in 2006 :)

  • Comment 190, posted at 17.11.08 14:04:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 188) :

    Was he supposed to sack the players ???

  • Comment 191, posted at 17.11.08 14:05:23 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 184) : yeah – of course it is. I don’t ahve a crystal ball :)

  • Comment 192, posted at 17.11.08 14:06:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 190) : Fastest I’ve seen posts go up on Sharksworld in a long time

  • Comment 193, posted at 17.11.08 14:07:35 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 187) : yeah – that’s what he’s done wrong, IMO. He needs to pick his own team now.

  • Comment 194, posted at 17.11.08 14:08:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 186) :

    Yea Plum could work.

    I always preferred Firestones :mrgreen: you know..them stones

  • Comment 195, posted at 17.11.08 14:08:51 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 193) : yup. But good debate, anyway…

    There’s not a lot of point all posting if we agree with each other

  • Comment 196, posted at 17.11.08 14:10:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 195) : Plum clearly has HUGE stones :mrgreen:

  • Comment 197, posted at 17.11.08 14:11:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 190) :

    He would be one I could live with..no nonsemse with him.

  • Comment 198, posted at 17.11.08 14:12:24 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 151) : My take on it as well china.

  • Comment 199, posted at 17.11.08 14:12:25 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • I think we are all very frustrated , because we know we have the players and the talent to be the best. We as supporters set very high standards and we still have 2007 World cup hangovers. I don’t think PdV is going anywhere soon so I wish him all the best and may he bring out the best in our players….I really need to go back to work now

  • Comment 200, posted at 17.11.08 14:12:26 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 191) : no he should have given them time off to decide if they still want to be boks. schalk and habana need to go do a little soul searching. mujati should never have been given a third chance.

  • Comment 201, posted at 17.11.08 14:14:00 by try time Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 196) : when we all agree we all just start talking kak anyway. :wink:

  • Comment 202, posted at 17.11.08 14:14:31 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 198) : then again – there’s plenty talk of player revolts at the Force…

    @Pokkel (Comment 200) : why, have the markets turned? :)

  • Comment 203, posted at 17.11.08 14:15:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 192) :

    Perhaps Matfield is planning a hostile take-over…

  • Comment 204, posted at 17.11.08 14:15:51 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 165) : I wasn’t. Even before I got on Sharks Rugby, my mates slagged off JW and I said yeh it’s not pretty but I can see what he’s trying to do, let’s be patient. And voila. The problem with PdV is I don’t see any future in what he’s trying to do. The gameplan is, “If you get the ball…run!”

  • Comment 205, posted at 17.11.08 14:16:10 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 203) : I wish, it’s more trying to calm the Californian wild fires. Hopefully close to bottom now :roll:

  • Comment 206, posted at 17.11.08 14:17:19 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 203) :

    Yea but those Aussie players have revolted before under a different coach..spoilt little brats!

  • Comment 207, posted at 17.11.08 14:17:48 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • where is nokwe that earned pdv’s selection. look where i give pdv kudos is telling ruan what we all knew. but he loses all that cred by keeping players that aren’t carrying their weight.

  • Comment 208, posted at 17.11.08 14:18:08 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 201) :

    I wonder what Henry and Jones were going to say if PdV went on tour without Schalk and Bryan . :roll:

  • Comment 209, posted at 17.11.08 14:18:18 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 202) :

    I miss that… :twisted:

  • Comment 210, posted at 17.11.08 14:19:13 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 205) : i thought it was when you get the ball knock it on, lie on it or kick it away.

  • Comment 211, posted at 17.11.08 14:20:02 by try time Reply

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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 209) :

    Why should there opinion count if no one elses count…? :twisted:

  • Comment 212, posted at 17.11.08 14:20:29 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
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  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 210) : Oh no she’s back. Going to spoil our rugby talk here with trivial unimportant gossip :evil: :wink:

  • Comment 213, posted at 17.11.08 14:21:14 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 209) : put them on the bench and let them feel the splinters in the wood.

  • Comment 214, posted at 17.11.08 14:21:24 by try time Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 202) : I talk kak anyway :)

  • Comment 215, posted at 17.11.08 14:21:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 211) : Nah. Those are just the consequences of “when you get the ball (no matter what)…run!”

  • Comment 216, posted at 17.11.08 14:23:09 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @try time (Comment 214) :

    Yeah- in hindsight…that could’ve worked…

  • Comment 217, posted at 17.11.08 14:23:58 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 178) :
    Surely, hopefully its open to anyone.

  • Comment 218, posted at 17.11.08 14:24:07 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 215) : You and Ice both :roll:

  • Comment 219, posted at 17.11.08 14:24:19 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 213) : @Pokkel (Comment 219) :

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    Pokkel….did you here about…. :lol:

  • Comment 220, posted at 17.11.08 14:25:31 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @try time (Comment 208) : I don’t get that… you saying Nokwe didn’t deserve his spot? I don’t buy that at all. The guy scored 4 tries against Aus, FFS… he’s had an amazing season.

  • Comment 221, posted at 17.11.08 14:26:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 220) : Put your tongue back in your mouth and talk some sense :evil: :wink:

  • Comment 222, posted at 17.11.08 14:27:10 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 222) :

    No can do… :twisted:

  • Comment 223, posted at 17.11.08 14:29:31 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 222) :

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen: and you reckon what you’ve been saying here, DOES??? :lol: :wink:

  • Comment 224, posted at 17.11.08 14:30:20 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • Look it doesn’t matter. Our next series is against guess who? The Lions! And guess what…if we lose that one it’s bye-bye Snor!

  • Comment 225, posted at 17.11.08 14:30:34 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 221) : I think he wants to see more of Nokwe and less of Habana…

  • Comment 226, posted at 17.11.08 14:32:42 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • This tour has hardly been used as an opportunity to give the Brits a few mental scars has it?

  • Comment 227, posted at 17.11.08 14:33:26 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 225) : if we lose that one…

  • Comment 228, posted at 17.11.08 14:33:50 by blckshrk - BUCANEER Reply

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  • HAHA…I didn’t realise. The Bulls don’t get a shot at the Lions. Awesome. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 229, posted at 17.11.08 14:35:30 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 225) : so I take it from your comment that you’re hoping we do lose? Fair-weather fan.

  • Comment 230, posted at 17.11.08 14:37:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 229) :

    yeah they must be pissed about that. :razz:

  • Comment 231, posted at 17.11.08 14:38:33 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 226) : oops :) In that case, I agree :oops:

  • Comment 232, posted at 17.11.08 14:38:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • Lions vs Lions should be an interesting one for Hugh “Pass me the Amarula” Bladen. :lol: I’m pencilling that one in.

  • Comment 233, posted at 17.11.08 14:38:37 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 230) : Nah. I’m saying that for me it’s a win-win situation. If we win I get bragging rights over my Brit mates and if we lose we can get rid of Snor. Fair-weather. Pah! I’ve supported the Sharks my whole life. :roll:

  • Comment 234, posted at 17.11.08 14:40:46 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 233) :

    :lol:

    I will have to miss the Lions v Sharks game. :sad: But arrive in Sa two days before the Durban test so will see that. :cool:

  • Comment 235, posted at 17.11.08 14:41:53 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 231) : That said, if we beat them the Kalfies will say, “Ja maar as ons ook ‘n kans gekry’t sou die telling groter gewees.” Or some crap like that.

  • Comment 236, posted at 17.11.08 14:42:05 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 235) : Assuming you get tickets. :wink: I think I will organise a bus trip to the Sharks game for the Rebel Supporters now I think about it.

  • Comment 237, posted at 17.11.08 14:43:09 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 235) :

    Ag nee….thought I can “win” some ticket to the game.. :twisted:

  • Comment 238, posted at 17.11.08 14:43:21 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 237) :

    I think he will have tickets.. :wink:

  • Comment 239, posted at 17.11.08 14:44:05 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 239) : How?

  • Comment 240, posted at 17.11.08 14:45:20 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 238) :

    Well you can. :lol:

    i just need to confirm with kette but there should be 4 tickets available to be won (legitimately) for the Sharks game and we have already confirmed that there will be two test tickets to be won.

  • Comment 241, posted at 17.11.08 14:46:31 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 239) :

    Clever girl.

  • Comment 242, posted at 17.11.08 14:47:23 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 240) :

    They are called “season” tickets… :roll: :wink:

  • Comment 243, posted at 17.11.08 14:48:06 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 241) :

    Gooi the Questions…I have a few months to try and get the answers… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 244, posted at 17.11.08 14:48:56 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
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  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 243) : Season tickets when you live in Saudi. KSA has cash to splash.

  • Comment 245, posted at 17.11.08 14:49:17 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 244) :

    I’m afraid they will be part of fully fledged competitions run at the start of the next season. :sad:

  • Comment 246, posted at 17.11.08 14:50:21 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 245) :

    ja…but is there food in the fridge..?? :twisted: Sometimes you have to make sacrifices you know! :wink:

  • Comment 247, posted at 17.11.08 14:51:24 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 245) :

    I wish we had. :sad: Just our way of ensuring we have test ticket available when we are in SA.

  • Comment 248, posted at 17.11.08 14:51:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 247) :

    Ja, almal dink ek glimlag maar dis eintlik honger pyne. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 249, posted at 17.11.08 14:52:17 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 246) :

    have I ever looked afraid of challenges?? i am challenged, so…not scared.. :wink:

  • Comment 250, posted at 17.11.08 14:52:48 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 247) : Well KSA, is there?

  • Comment 251, posted at 17.11.08 14:52:57 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 244) :

    the Question is actually easy.

    Pick one team to win in each round of the Super 14. Once you have picked them you can’t pick them again :smile:

  • Comment 252, posted at 17.11.08 14:53:51 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 249) :

    en ek dog jy smile maar so mooi!.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    BTW…glad to see the Lady has the final say…You go Kette!! :lol:

  • Comment 253, posted at 17.11.08 14:54:09 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 251) :

    See comment 249… :roll: :wink:

  • Comment 254, posted at 17.11.08 14:56:10 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 252) :

    Sounds interesting….so sort of a knock out…this week I select the bulls…but cannot select them for a win for any of the next rounds?

  • Comment 255, posted at 17.11.08 14:57:46 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 255) :

    You learn quite fast. :smile:

    That is correct. so we may have a winner after round 3 already :lol:

  • Comment 256, posted at 17.11.08 14:59:41 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 256) :

    Dont sound so surprised! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 257, posted at 17.11.08 15:02:19 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice (Bébé de Glace) (Comment 257) : :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    Cheers people.

    Home time for me.

  • Comment 258, posted at 17.11.08 15:05:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 258) :

    cherio KSA…Say howdy to Kette!

  • Comment 259, posted at 17.11.08 15:07:49 by Ice (Bébé de Glace) Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • Just heard Bizy’s out on the way home so is steenkamp apparently jannie is in london

  • Comment 260, posted at 17.11.08 15:43:46 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 260) : poor Bis. Hope he’s fit in time for Super 14.

  • Comment 261, posted at 17.11.08 16:03:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • OK, does this now mean that the experiment with Jon Smit at tighthead is over. On the one hand Im very glad for Jannie because he probably should have been there from the beginning, on the other Im pissed off that Chilliboy doesnt get the nod as a hooker. What must he read into this?

  • Comment 262, posted at 17.11.08 16:11:17 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • And what must all the other hookers that played more than an hour of first class rugby this season think of this.

  • Comment 263, posted at 17.11.08 16:14:41 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @blckshrk – BUCANEER (Comment 169) : Nah uh. My balls have dropped! :wink:

  • Comment 264, posted at 17.11.08 16:24:46 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Fattmann (Comment 260) :

    Did Jannie Teleport to the UK?

  • Comment 265, posted at 17.11.08 16:37:50 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 262) : hey – if you have Jannie on the bench, I reckon you can afford to start with Chilli and John.

  • Comment 266, posted at 17.11.08 16:54:54 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 265) : I reckon he was there anyway

  • Comment 267, posted at 17.11.08 16:55:24 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 266) :

    You can and if by some change of fortune we are playing well and leading comfortably then by all means bring on Chilly…but if its a close game I wouldn’t be comfortable with him replacing John.

  • Comment 268, posted at 17.11.08 17:00:29 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 266) :
    You can. Its actually a good call. My gripe is about the way it was made and the initial selection of players. In my view if you dont really intend playing a player then dont pick him, for whatever reason. All that that achieves is to raise many question marks in many peoples minds.

  • Comment 269, posted at 17.11.08 17:06:41 by Salmonoid Reply
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    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @try time (Comment 99) :

    Hey man…JdV made a few good breaks this weekend…he did however hold onto the ball to long in two of them…
    He was not bad on def either from what I saw…

  • Comment 270, posted at 17.11.08 18:01:27 by Hmmm Reply

    HmmmSuper Rugby player
     
  • Well my take on the Bokke this year…

    We beat an almost 3rd string Welsh on home soil…

    Got outplayed in the 1st 3N game, won a game in NZ for the first time in ten years which would be a great start to a 3N season and a start a new couch can only dream of…
    The we lose to a Wallabie side that played very poorly….
    Then we get smashed at home…last happened in the Straulie era…
    And even worse than that lost two 3N at home in one year for the first time ever…and lost convincingly…
    At this stage the 3N was already a great failure as we got outplayed in 4 out of 5 games of which two were home games…
    The we smashed the life out of Aus…which was bitter sweet as it meant nothing in the comp but a lot in terms of record and bragging rights…

    Then we go on tour and struggle to win…almost losing to a Scottish team that lost convincingly to a 2nd string AB side…

    So the year of the Bokke is in my mind a failure…if we beat the English it would make up some of the lost hope….

  • Comment 271, posted at 17.11.08 18:10:56 by Hmmm Reply

    HmmmSuper Rugby player
     
  • Was it only me or did John Smit look a tad porky?

  • Comment 272, posted at 17.11.08 22:52:28 by beez Reply

    beezUnder 21 player
     
  • @beez (Comment 272) :

    He is taking the prop conversion seriously. :wink:

  • Comment 273, posted at 18.11.08 06:40:47 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Hmmm (Comment 270) : that is why i say you can’t put adi next to him, because he doesn’t pass so whats the point of having and offensive centre outside him. so it has to be jean or adi that needs to go.

  • Comment 274, posted at 18.11.08 07:45:12 by try time Reply

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