Morné

Growing up


Written by Morné Nortier (Morné)

Posted in :Original Content on 8 Dec 2008 at 10:23

I have always been toying with the thought of what will be better; having young talented players go through an apprenticeship and become mature as player before they enter the big stage, or if they are good enough they are old enough?

There is merit for both, or at least to a large extent the thought of ‘if he is good enough he is old enough’ counted when rugby was still an amateur sport.

Personally I find it alarming however on just how immature some of our rugby players are – especially the younger ones.

Not immature in the sense of being childish (although it does apply at times), but more to the extent of being mentally mature.

In the older days or amateur days, we found that apart from being provincial and even national rugby stars, players still held down a day-job. Something they have more often than not studied for and also something that through the up’s and down’s of a professional career we all experience, made them more mature or grown-up being able to handle situations, or life, better.

It reminds me a lot of a saying I heard awhile back, being that; “Toe ek ‘n kind was, het ek die dinge van ‘n kind gedoen”, meaning that you acted like a kid when you were still a kid, but at some stage, normally through normal life experiences, you grow up.

It hit home again after I read an interview with Robert Ebersohn following the George Sevens which the Sevens Boks won, and where he was crowned player of the tournament.

Now Robert decided to spend a season with the Sevens Boks, rather than joining up with his provincial franchise the Cheetahs and play Super 14.

Robert mentions in the interview that although it is every single player’s dream to represent the Boks, he believes his career will be better off if he goes through the ‘stepping stone’ of Sevens rugby first to help him mature more as a player.

Wow, now there is something you don’t hear everyday especially from a youngster in pro-rugby who by anyone’s standards earns a lot of money and in the view of us fans, lives a charmed life!

But the mere fact that Robert recognised that he is not quite ready for top-flight rugby like Super 14 and that he has to mature in his game still and work on his overall skills, tells me this kid looked at his career, identified his weaknesses and made a mature, grown-up decision about what is best for his career in the long run. Not being charmed by money or status and signing with a Super 14 franchise of which I am sure any of the 5 South African franchises would want him on their books.

Robert decided to do his apprenticeship, to take the longer, sometimes, harder road – which will no doubt put him in good stead in years to come where most youngsters his age will be burnt-out, or written off because of one or six bad games, or one or two bad seasons.

Now take that attitude, and compare that to a Frans Steyn.

A player who seemingly insists in only wanting to play in certain positions, even though he is but a spring chicken in the rugby world with more than just a couple of weaknesses! Compare the mental maturity of the two and then ask yourself why some are already writing a Steyn off while just about everyone is predicting a bright future for young Ebersohn?

Everyone of us agrees that Steyn is a prodigious talent, the likes of what you don’t see everyday. Just last week we discussed what to do with Steyn in 2009.

I believed then as I do now, Steyn needs to lay low for a while. He is not better than any incumbent Bok and by insisting in doing things his way, he might well be digging his own rugby grave.

Steyn might be a World Cup winning Bok, but he too still needs a ‘stepping stone’ to reach a level of maturity only achieved by doing a type of apprenticeship.

Mentally young Steyn is naive, inexperienced and immature. All that does change with experience and time, but for now it is all about how Steyn is going to manage himself in getting to the point where he can be the best in the world.

And a look at the mature, responsible and honest decision Ebersohn made with his career might be a good start for young Steyn.



123 Comments

  • Awesome piece, Morras… it raises a number of questions in my mind.

    1)Was Magic Rob’s decision prompted by maturity, or fear? One other massive difference between him and Fransie is that Frans is 10cm taller and 20 kgs heavier. Ebersohn would get murdered at Super 14 level and he knows it. He’s just too small!
    2)What is it that Steyn should do, in your opinion, in order to get his career back on track? What are the “mature decisions” he needs to take at this stage?
    3)Does Ebersohn’s decision to sign a contract with the SA Sevens team mean that he is effectively out of contract with Free State and could be snapped up by another team?

  • Comment 1, posted at 08.12.08 10:39:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : ah wait – you actually said last week that Frans should go jol overseas for a few years, didn’t you?

  • Comment 2, posted at 08.12.08 10:42:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) :

    1) Quote from Rob:

    “I think if we hadn’t played as well as we did in these last two tournaments, some people might have had doubts and said it wasn’t the right decision.

    “But I’ll stick to it no matter what the outcome. I knew that this [Sevens] is probably the best stepping stone. Paul Treu is a really amazing coach, and there’s no better place to lay your foundations with him as a coach.”

    We can speculate, but from what I read he is looking at this as a stepping stone.

    Also remember, this kid was recognised by his peers recently at the rugby awards (agree with it or not) so it is not like he is not rated! There are many other smaller, shittier players out there with Super 14 contracts.

    2) Steyn should just put much less pressure on himself, and most importantly realise that there are major areas in his game he needs to improve upon.

    And also, be patient in getting there. There is no problem with wanting to be the best and working hard at it; there is a difference (and problem) however in my view believing you are the best when you are far from it.

    3) Only up and till the Sevens world series is done. Which runs with the Super 14 as you know. He is still contracted to the Cheetahs, and will play CC again for them next year.

  • Comment 3, posted at 08.12.08 10:45:27 by MorneN Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 2) :

    Yup!!!

  • Comment 4, posted at 08.12.08 10:45:57 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 3) : ok… I guess I am really out on a limb when it comes to Magic Rob… based on what I saw in the Currie Cup, which is the “toughest” competition he has played in to date, I just don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Admittedly, I didn’t manage to watch any of the sevens, but even so, being a great sevens player doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to excel in 15s. just ask Brent Russell…

  • Comment 5, posted at 08.12.08 10:53:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 4) : do you really think that he is even mature enough for a stint overseas? He’d need to go somewhere with a very sympathetic and patient coaching staff… I reckon his best hope is to get back to form under Plum

  • Comment 6, posted at 08.12.08 10:55:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 6) :

    I think he needs a coaching setup that will take no shit from him. Baptism of fire if you will where he is introduced to the game of rugby where being talked up means nothing if you do not deliver.

    Fully professional, privately owned system (as in Europe) might just be the answer to bring him to a level where he is forced to work on his game and not just ‘demand’.

  • Comment 7, posted at 08.12.08 10:58:42 by MorneN Reply
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  • I have worked with a lot of really talented young players.

    They all have one thing in common, they are not patient.

    And because of that they believe they are ‘ready’ and go on natural talent alone believing they are.

    Fact is, it takes a shit lot of hard work to be a professional, in any walk of life let alone rugby.

    I quite like the Australian cricket system.

    Not that there is an age cap on national selection, but their system works so that when a cricketer eventually gets there, he has had some hard yards behind him, refined his play, knows his game inside out, and in pressure situations on the park, been there, seen it and bought all the t-shirts so nothing hardly ever fluffs them.

    IN SA, we want to make superstars of individuals even if they just show a glimpse of greatness.

    Meanwhile they are quite far off.

  • Comment 8, posted at 08.12.08 11:02:52 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 7) : Funny, though, I reckon the closest he has come to looking reasonable this season was the last few games of the Currie Cup… looked like a pretty good option at inside centre and was starting to let go of the selfish Mr Hero shit

  • Comment 9, posted at 08.12.08 11:04:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • “some are already writing a Steyn off”

    Bit of hyperbole there – Steyn is still a brilliant player, and nobody is writing off a 21 year old.

    I agree that Ebershon made a great decision, but people seem to wilfully forget that Rose and Dollie are also both very skillful players, but ultimately, in rugby, size matters. Best of luck to him though.

    Steyn does require maturation, and this is where he needs a good coach – I just hope that he is granted the same tough love that JPP was.

  • Comment 10, posted at 08.12.08 11:04:33 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Steyn is still a brilliant player, and nobody is writing off a 21 year old.

    Comments like him being the next Gaffie is already quite common.

  • Comment 11, posted at 08.12.08 11:08:52 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 8) : it’s almost like players aren’t really aware of how special Super rugby really is… because so many mediocre players have managed to get capped for our franchises, it has diluted the prestige of actually playing in the Super 14… A player should need to show consistent form in the Super 14 for at least 2-3 seasons before even being considered for Bok selection.

  • Comment 12, posted at 08.12.08 11:13:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 11) : yeah, must say, I’m not 100% with Fish on this one. I would happily leave Frans out of the starting lineup for the Sharks next year

  • Comment 13, posted at 08.12.08 11:16:30 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) :

    Exactly.

    And then we wonder what happens to our young talented players?

    For my money, look at this aspect (not being ready) as a major reason.

    Specifically when we wonder what happens to our black and coloured youngsters.

    I mean there is a massive cultural shock in some instances these guys are exposed to, yet they are never shown or told or taught how to handle or manage that.

  • Comment 14, posted at 08.12.08 11:26:46 by MorneN Reply
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  • Andre Pretoruis did a similar thing. He still turned out crap. :lol:

  • Comment 15, posted at 08.12.08 11:26:50 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • I remember listening to Mkhaya Ntini the one time when he toured with SA for the first time.

    Forget that he could hardly speak English, but he thought what the guys ate on tour was weird and disgusting!

    Go and see if you can get his interview where he talks about the crayfish or lobster!!! :)

    Point is, there is massive amounts of pressure once you are in the Super 14/test limelight, and most of these guys do not know how to handle that.

  • Comment 16, posted at 08.12.08 11:28:54 by MorneN Reply
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  • The biggest problem that steyn has is that he needs to start playing a less high-risk brand of rugby and stop trying to win every game by himself. If he just played a team game things would go a lot better for him. Comparisons to gaffie are a tad extreme. Typical saffa over-reaction.

  • Comment 17, posted at 08.12.08 11:29:35 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • if you want to dig deeper into the saga of Steyn , he was offered the oppurtunity to play fullback at the begin of last season but due to his father,s interference and his reluctance this never happened as they continue to threaten that he will leave if he doesnt play flyhalf ,it is a wonder wheather he watched the Barbarians game , steyn play fullback and enjoy a great career or fall by the wayside

  • Comment 18, posted at 08.12.08 11:39:58 by bob365 Reply

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  • @bob365 (Comment 18) : hey Bob. Welcome to the site. Hope you like it here.

    May I ask where you got that info from? I’ve heard a few rumour about Steyn’s old man throwing his weight around…

  • Comment 19, posted at 08.12.08 11:50:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • I feel the importance of size is diminishing slowly as the game speeds up…imo there is a future for players like Rose, Ebersohn.Player like Russell in his prime should walk the Bok side now.Good decision by Ebersohn and I wish him the best.I enjoyed watching him lately.
    Steyn perhaps needs a good boere miesie to pull him right!I do feel he has become a tad big for his shoes recently and needs a reality check to come right.

  • Comment 20, posted at 08.12.08 11:53:19 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • Shane Williams is a example..the guy is tiny.

  • Comment 21, posted at 08.12.08 11:54:35 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 21) : Matt Giteau…

  • Comment 22, posted at 08.12.08 11:55:24 by robdylan Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 17) :
    My feeling too – he seems to think that he has to do something special everytime he touches the ball – I think that he needs to be shown that sometimes the most brilliant thing he can do is entrust a team-mate to win do the magic instead.

    That being said, I also agree that its a typical SA thing to build up players too quickly, and then to happily cast them aside too.

    SA fans have always been inconclasts – from Bobby, Percy and Ollie to Habana, JPP and Frans – nothing new.

  • Comment 23, posted at 08.12.08 11:55:44 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 23) : you and your big words, fish :)

  • Comment 24, posted at 08.12.08 12:03:45 by robdylan Reply
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  • I am wondering how soon it will be before you little sharkies steal this boy from Free state, I watched him and his brother , who is no mug either, play for Grey Bloem and they were awesome. He has a good head on his shoulders and the Currie Cup was a huge learning curve last year, he took some big hits, but all credit to him that he saw that a year in Sevens could benefit him. Often wished Brent Russel had stuck to sevens he was so awesome to watch, when he had the room to move. As for our friend Steyn, he has to get his head right, as he will not be starting for the Springboks for a while (Flyhalf is taken-Pienaar. Center is taken -Div. and Fullback is taken Jantjies. ) so he will have to do some amazing stuff to get into the team. I still reckon concentrate at centre, he has the size and the rugby brain, remember Hennie le Roux, good flyhalf, awesome inside center. If Plum sticks with him there he will take over from Div in the next two years.

  • Comment 25, posted at 08.12.08 12:07:49 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 25) :

    I thought you are a Sharks supporter??? :shock:

  • Comment 26, posted at 08.12.08 12:13:18 by wpw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 24) :
    Matching my conversation to my audience my friend. :wink:

    You just dont like Frans cos of the Brad-Frans at 12 question. :lol:

  • Comment 27, posted at 08.12.08 12:14:27 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Who is the back-up inside centre for the Boks?? I’m assuming it is Adi.

    If heaven forbid JDV or Adi gets injured, would Frans be next in line for the inside center position??

    Who else is there?? Bobo? Olivier?? Bosman??

  • Comment 28, posted at 08.12.08 12:17:35 by wpw Reply
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  • Enjoy the site and sidestepping Rob , but never a shark supporter :grin: Support the poor old lions, but they have not got a chance in hell, as long as the idiots who run there rugby are around, So I will accept all your abuse!!

  • Comment 29, posted at 08.12.08 12:19:19 by Whindy Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 26) : Nah – for Whindy, it’s the love that dare not speak its name… (ok, he’s a Lions supporter)

    @Big Fish (Comment 27) : he he. I don’t like Frans because he’s a selfish player. That’s the beginning and end of it.

  • Comment 30, posted at 08.12.08 12:19:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 29) :

    At least you don’t have Puke in your team. :roll:

  • Comment 31, posted at 08.12.08 12:22:01 by wpw Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 29) : it’s not like sidestepping me is much of an achievement, even for an old balie like you :)

    @wpw (Comment 28) : Wynand would presumably be next in line after Adi and Frans

  • Comment 32, posted at 08.12.08 12:23:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 31) : speaking of Lions and opensiders, I wander how much longer it will be before Baywatch finally gives in to “pissed-offedness” and heads overseas?

  • Comment 33, posted at 08.12.08 12:24:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • (Comment31)WPW,Never mind his Daddy is going to get him a Super 14 team in the Eastern Cape and then he will leave you poor guys, to be the captain.

  • Comment 34, posted at 08.12.08 12:31:11 by Whindy Reply
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  • Can you believe the Lions used to be the richest rugby union in the world, one wonders where all that cash dissapeared too. I reckon its only a matter of time before he(Baywatch) follows his mates across the Jukskei.

  • Comment 35, posted at 08.12.08 12:34:23 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 34) : and will he be missed? Somehow I doubt it…

    I wonder what this will mean for poor Solomzi Tshibilika…

  • Comment 36, posted at 08.12.08 12:34:48 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 35) : yeah… Bulls could use him to devastating effect

  • Comment 37, posted at 08.12.08 12:35:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • (Comment 36) Rob, Solly has a nasty habit of going awol, but nothing that Cheeky cant talk too him about,or train one of his newly trained administrators to take care of. :grin:

  • Comment 38, posted at 08.12.08 12:41:52 by Whindy Reply
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  • A lot of where Fransie lacks comes from experience.

    Gents you cannot coach that, and neither does it come overnight.

    Fransie just need to be patient but I fear as soon as things won’t go his way, or he gets frustrated, he will switch unions or move overseas.

  • Comment 39, posted at 08.12.08 12:43:04 by MorneN Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 38) :

    Hell Whindy it has been awhile!

    Howzit

  • Comment 40, posted at 08.12.08 12:43:43 by MorneN Reply
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  • (Comment 38)Thanks Morne,Good to be back from the Congo, now in the dessert of Abu Dhabi, with computers, Amazing

  • Comment 41, posted at 08.12.08 12:47:28 by Whindy Reply
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  • I believe frans steyn tries to impress too hard-take the game against italy-scored a great try then tried to do it all on his own for the rest of the game

  • Comment 42, posted at 08.12.08 13:38:20 by Bok-Clyde-Kiwi Reply

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  • Boks have no decent back up at 12 just like the sharks unless adi plays 12

  • Comment 43, posted at 08.12.08 13:40:22 by Bok-Clyde-Kiwi Reply

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  • Everyone goes on abt what a great season jdv has had-and i agree,but he has missed sum crucial tackles,eg.against mortlock down under

  • Comment 44, posted at 08.12.08 13:42:09 by Bok-Clyde-Kiwi Reply

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  • @Bok-Clyde-Kiwi (Comment 44) :

    dude, he was about 5 meters from our tryline and Mortlock was coming at him full speed – there was NO WAY he was gonna stop him. :shock:

  • Comment 45, posted at 08.12.08 13:56:25 by wpw Reply
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  • Ho humm another Steyn bashing article.

  • Comment 46, posted at 08.12.08 13:58:23 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 46) : hey – it’s flavour of the week.

    What else would you rather discuss, Salmo? Did you get the email I sent you, BTW?

  • Comment 47, posted at 08.12.08 14:00:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 20) : I still think size matters. Imagine a 7′s team with the size and speed of :oops:

    Habana
    JPP
    Kankowski
    Steyn
    JdV
    Spies( did I just type that?) :oops:

  • Comment 48, posted at 08.12.08 14:05:40 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 46) :

    Same reason so many Bulls fans hated me for bashing Joost.

    They just make it too easy… ;)

  • Comment 49, posted at 08.12.08 14:07:14 by MorneN Reply
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  • Jean de Villiers was equally as crap as Steyn was in the Baa Baa game, only difference is that de Villiers has played at center the whole season while Steyn has had a few minutes at flyhalf – and for this he gets crucified.

  • Comment 50, posted at 08.12.08 14:07:49 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 48) : they’d get killed… only 6 men in that team :)

  • Comment 51, posted at 08.12.08 14:12:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 51) : As an example. OK let’s complete the team.

    JPP
    Habana
    Steyn
    JdV
    Kankowski
    Ruan
    Brussouw
    ( notice I left Spies out the team this time , you can’t play 7′s if you can’t catch a ball :roll: )

  • Comment 52, posted at 08.12.08 14:15:57 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) :
    As you can see Im not discussing anything lately so the topic is irrelevant. I imagine, regardlees of what is discussed, it would revert back to Steyn anyway.
    Will go look for your mail.

  • Comment 53, posted at 08.12.08 14:16:33 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 52) : I wonder if the Beast would be quick enough for 7′s rugby….ok maybe not

  • Comment 54, posted at 08.12.08 14:17:21 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 53) : Salmo – starting to feel like no matter what we do, we can’t please you :)

  • Comment 55, posted at 08.12.08 14:19:04 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 50) :

    the Baabaas game was a nothing game.

    JDV was SA’s best centre during the S14 and most consistent player.

    Steyn was well for lack of a better word = kak ( most of the whole season) barring the latter stages of the CC. :roll:

  • Comment 56, posted at 08.12.08 14:20:07 by wpw Reply
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  • I start getting worried when coaches like Dick Muir says;

    I pick Frans Steyn on wing because he is simply too good to leave out of the team…

    Dude, if he is good enough then pick him in his best position (in this case at 12 ahead of Brad).

    Never, ever accommodate players.

    They will play themself out of any form and contention.

  • Comment 57, posted at 08.12.08 14:25:04 by MorneN Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 56) : Salmo has a point, though… you need to apply the same criteria. If we’re going to use the Baabaa’s game as a yardstick, then JDV is also a kak player.

    Can we really judge Steyn as a flyhalf over the course of a total season, given that he has played there <5 this year?

  • Comment 58, posted at 08.12.08 14:26:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 58) :

    Well it depends.

    Jean and any other Baa-Baa had nothing to prove – he came off a great year.

    Steyn however had a lot to prove.

    Great players grab their chances with both hands – just ask Adi – even in insignificant games against weak teams like Wales (at home) or Samoa

  • Comment 59, posted at 08.12.08 14:28:53 by MorneN Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 58) :

    That is not comparing apple with apples Rob.

    We can say that JDV and Steyn both had average games for the Baabaas BUT other than the last game of the season Steyn was average this year and JDV was not.

  • Comment 60, posted at 08.12.08 14:29:35 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 60) : But Salmo’s point in that JDV had the luxury of playing consistently in only 1 position the whole season, whereas Frans did not…

    You have to concede there is merit to the argument

  • Comment 61, posted at 08.12.08 14:33:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 59) : look, I’m just playing devil’s advocate here to save Salmo a bit of typing. I would not for a moment argue that Steyn has had a good year. What I will say is that given a little bit of continuity in one position and a coach who emphasised “team first”, he actually started to look pretty good.

  • Comment 62, posted at 08.12.08 14:37:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 62) :

    I agree, also, no-where in the article do we bash Steyn’s talents or question it, we all know he is a special player missing a little something that, as you mentioned, comes through a bit of guidance as-well as experience.

    Steyn quite simply is not managing himself effectively (Ebersohn comparison) or being managed effectively (Muir in the S14).

    We can all cry foul over the coaches, but in my mind the player also need to take personal responsibility which is why I drew the comparisons with the two players.

    I think it is illustrated quite nicely or made me sit up and take note.

  • Comment 63, posted at 08.12.08 14:40:05 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 63) : he is young and he needs to be shown the way. If his ego gets in the way of him learning the lessons that he needs to learn (which I suspect it will) then he’s going to need a little tough love.

  • Comment 64, posted at 08.12.08 14:42:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • I think the salient point here is that Frans Steyn needs to settle down and develop his game.

    He seems to be under the impression that his current game is good enough and doesn’t warrant any improvement. What he fails to realise is that his current game isn’t good enough and he won’t be able to live forever on the odd 60m drop goal.

  • Comment 65, posted at 08.12.08 14:45:16 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : Salmo also defended Matfield during the Tri Nations…

    :mrgreen:

    Ok, OK. There is merit to his argument… :oops:

  • Comment 66, posted at 08.12.08 14:45:49 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • I’m curious to find out when it became acceptable for young players, and here I’m referring to barely-out-of-school 20 yearolds, to demand that they play in certain positions.

    And then stories of their fathers doing the same thing?

    Crikey, when did a Bok jersey become conditional upon playing in a certain position?

  • Comment 67, posted at 08.12.08 14:47:59 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 61) :

    I call bullshit.

    It was only last season that Jean had that luxury. Before that he also played outside centre, wing, and there was even pressure from some parts for him to play flyhalf.

  • Comment 68, posted at 08.12.08 14:49:02 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 65) :

    Well summed up Vin.

    @VinChainSaw (Comment 68) :

    What fools would have wanted to play him at 10!?!?! :grin:

    Again, well put, Jean worked bloody hard to earn the accolades only this year.

    Last year I said he was an overrated center because he displayed nothing supporting the hype around him.

    And look now…

  • Comment 69, posted at 08.12.08 14:51:27 by MorneN Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 67) :

    One needs to however admire a guy like Ruan who has made it clear he prefers the no 9 jersey but is willing to play wherever he is asked.

  • Comment 70, posted at 08.12.08 14:52:52 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @MorneN (Comment 69) : hehehe

    A guy called PissAnt. Do you know him by any chance??? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 71, posted at 08.12.08 14:54:27 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 70) :

    Agreed but I don’t know if he was willing – I think he might’ve realised he had no choice!
    Still, at least he realised that – Steyn still has to.

  • Comment 72, posted at 08.12.08 14:55:49 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @MorneN (Comment 69) :

    Lol. Need I pull up those rather lengthy articles PissAnt used to post on RW… ;-)

    BTW – very chuffed you picked up on that one Morne…

  • Comment 73, posted at 08.12.08 14:57:17 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 71) :

    Luckily not.

    Must be a fool which is why I have not heard of him.

    Mind you there is some merit there ;)

  • Comment 74, posted at 08.12.08 14:57:43 by MorneN Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • I saw him play Fly half a couple of years ago in the pouring rain, forget who the opposition was, and granted it was not test level stuff and he was brilliant, while everybody around him looked like fools, but that was before he had won a world cup winners medal. It must be hard to come to terms with that, I mean he has basically achieved everything before the age of 21. He will come back.

  • Comment 75, posted at 08.12.08 14:58:04 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 75) :

    I sincerely hope so.

    It would be a tradegy if we were having this same debate in a few years time.

  • Comment 76, posted at 08.12.08 15:00:05 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @Whindy (Comment 75) : It was against WP.

    But then again they did have a ‘coach’ called Kobus VD Merwe. :roll:

  • Comment 77, posted at 08.12.08 15:00:36 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • I big step forward, not just for Steyn but other SA rugby players as well, would be to NOT have your parents as your agent/spokesperson.

  • Comment 78, posted at 08.12.08 15:01:56 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 78) : AMEN

  • Comment 79, posted at 08.12.08 15:08:34 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @Whindy (Comment 75) :

    Againt WP in rain at Absa Stadium Durban.

    2006

  • Comment 80, posted at 08.12.08 15:08:37 by MorneN Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @MorneN (Comment 49) :
    Ahhh so this is a provincial thing – nailing Steyn because he isn’t a Stormers player.

  • Comment 81, posted at 08.12.08 15:16:07 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 66) :
    Whooaa tiger – you make that sound as if Matfield is my man.

  • Comment 82, posted at 08.12.08 15:26:33 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 82) : you do have a bit of an underdog thing going…

  • Comment 83, posted at 08.12.08 15:31:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • Can anyone please point me to the articles where Steyn insists on playing flyhalf?

  • Comment 84, posted at 08.12.08 15:31:39 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 82) : If your name was Piet Pienaar he would be. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 85, posted at 08.12.08 15:33:39 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 81) :

    Yes, if you follow my articles you will see I get accused of being bias every week for a different team or coach!

    This week is anti-sharks, pro cheetah and next week I will move onto the Lions and WP. :)

    I was thinking of having 5 different nicks at one stage associated to the 5 provinces so people at least have some way of telling which team or coach I support on a weekly basis!

  • Comment 86, posted at 08.12.08 15:37:15 by MorneN Reply
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  • anyone besides me playing Gangster Battle on FaceBook, btw?

  • Comment 87, posted at 08.12.08 15:39:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 87) :

    Nope, just you.

  • Comment 88, posted at 08.12.08 15:42:34 by MorneN Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 83) :
    I must have – I even defended Luke not too long ago, blamed his old man for his rantings. The acid test will be if you guys start climbing into Schalk Britz.

    BTW, got the mail and replied, thanks.

  • Comment 89, posted at 08.12.08 15:43:25 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 87) : What’s facebook? :wink:

  • Comment 90, posted at 08.12.08 15:44:33 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 85) : I have bad news. Piet launched a daring raid to try and bust john Mametsa out of jail. Unfortunately, he was drunk at the time so he didn’t manage to knock down the prison wall with his Nissan Champ bakkie the way he thought he would.

    He’ll be inside for a while…

  • Comment 91, posted at 08.12.08 15:44:37 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 89) :

    Nah nailed Schalk Brits already. Still hated by most WP fans for it.

  • Comment 92, posted at 08.12.08 15:45:59 by MorneN Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 85) :
    I actually knoW who Piet Pienaar is. It’s KSA in denial.

  • Comment 93, posted at 08.12.08 15:46:09 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 89) :

    Schalk Brits is a show pony and doesn’t deserve to be a Bok. :shock:

  • Comment 94, posted at 08.12.08 15:46:15 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 89) : not a big fan?

    @McLovin (Comment 90) : the opposite of an assbook

  • Comment 95, posted at 08.12.08 15:46:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 93) : In future please refer to KSA Shark as Oubaas. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 96, posted at 08.12.08 15:47:34 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @MorneN (Comment 92) :
    Repost some of them here so that I can test Rob’s theory. On the other hand Im sure he will give us a few opportunities come the rugby season.

  • Comment 97, posted at 08.12.08 15:49:06 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 89) : Defending the caveman??? :lol:

  • Comment 98, posted at 08.12.08 15:49:22 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 97) :

    Will do so over December, give us something to do or discuss while there is no rugby on.

  • Comment 99, posted at 08.12.08 15:52:25 by MorneN Reply
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  • O@wpw (Comment 96) :
    Will do, but what if Im older than him?

  • Comment 100, posted at 08.12.08 15:54:55 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 98) :
    :lol:

  • Comment 101, posted at 08.12.08 15:56:41 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 99) :
    Good idea – the latter part of December and early January are so slow on rugby sites – you can hardly pick a fight, even on Keo.

  • Comment 102, posted at 08.12.08 16:00:37 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 102) : you can ALWAYS pick a fight on some sites…

  • Comment 103, posted at 08.12.08 16:05:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 103) :
    :wink:

  • Comment 104, posted at 08.12.08 16:20:05 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 104) : glad you got that :)

  • Comment 105, posted at 08.12.08 16:52:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • I tend to agree with Salmonoid here – I think people are kicking Steyn when he is down, and the same ones were calling for him to displace JDV after the WC.

    The reality is that he is a kid and is making a kid’s mistakes – we should all ask ourselves how we acted at 21.

    What he needs is a mentor, and if he doesn’t want that, a hardass leader. He has everything to be a success, and if he doesn’t, it will be an indictment of SA rugby.

    And for the record, comparisons with Gaffie completely miss the point – Gaffie was unable to believe in himself, and failed as a result; Frans is too cocky, and fails because he doesnt see his own developmental areas.

  • Comment 106, posted at 08.12.08 17:34:29 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 106) : so he’s basically the AnitGaffie?

  • Comment 107, posted at 08.12.08 17:42:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 107) :
    Anit-Gaffie?

    Is that like an Indian version of Gaffie? :lol:

  • Comment 108, posted at 08.12.08 17:47:21 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 108) : ah crap… you know what I mean :mrgreen:

  • Comment 109, posted at 08.12.08 17:54:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • Ahoy STEYN-bashers… :twisted:

  • Comment 110, posted at 08.12.08 18:17:16 by blckshrk - BUCS Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • Steyn might also do well to consider a haircut. Doesn’t have to be short, just get it done by a professional. :razz:

  • Comment 111, posted at 08.12.08 18:19:29 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 111) : What? And let Kanko win the bet?

  • Comment 112, posted at 08.12.08 18:25:28 by blckshrk - BUCS Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • @blckshrk – BUCS (Comment 110) : happy birthday, bucko!

  • Comment 113, posted at 08.12.08 18:39:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • @blckshrk – BUCS (Comment 112) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 114, posted at 08.12.08 18:40:17 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @blckshrk – BUCS (Comment 112) : Happy, happy from me too. Didn’t even notice. :grin:

  • Comment 115, posted at 08.12.08 18:41:54 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • Thanks mates… Im lovin it!

  • Comment 116, posted at 08.12.08 19:12:01 by blckshrk - BUCS Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • @blckshrk – BUCS (Comment 116) :

    WHO?

  • Comment 117, posted at 08.12.08 19:47:31 by Hmmm Reply

    HmmmSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 113) :

    HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    happy birthday Dude. Hope you enjoyed the day.

  • Comment 118, posted at 08.12.08 21:15:13 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Frans Steyn could well do
    with two tears abroad.
    The first year to hone
    his hands in France,
    the other to strenghten his resolve
    and profesionalism
    in the winters of Northern Hemisphere rugby
    He’ll rerurn home,
    mentality allowing,
    a more complete rugby player.

  • Comment 119, posted at 08.12.08 22:02:57 by Duiwel Reply

    DuiwelVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Duiwel (Comment 119) :

    Someone mentioned it in passing the other day, but I think Steyn would also do well if he had a season in the Springbok Sevens side.

    It would teach him to pass more often than now and open up his general play even more IMO.

  • Comment 120, posted at 08.12.08 22:07:31 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • H’zit KSA,
    i agree sevens will open up
    his skills closet
    but he needs to hone
    what his got.
    Under pressure.
    Sevens doesn’t prepare you for
    internationals as a Springbok.
    The european cup,ect would.
    And France will hone his hands.
    They natural hands skill
    will rub off on him.
    And if ever there was need.

  • Comment 121, posted at 09.12.08 22:15:45 by Duiwel Reply

    DuiwelVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Duiwel (Comment 121) :

    And France will hone his hands

    The french Top 14 also doubles as the french top 10 Boxing league. :wink:

  • Comment 122, posted at 10.12.08 07:11:01 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Hey KSA,
    they can’t hit for shit.
    punch likethey play for Wiepie.

  • Comment 123, posted at 11.12.08 00:29:04 by Duiwel Reply

    DuiwelVodacom Cup player
     

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