Baldrick

Arrogant or Confident?


Written by Alan Williams (Baldrick)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super 14 on 17 Feb 2009 at 07:12

Last week there was the usual war of words between the coaches, as well as rival supporters of the two teams – Sharks and Stormers.

This is acceptable, understandable, and expected, especially with all the hype surrounding this derby match between the top two SA sides in this year’s competition (well, preseason talk has given them that status – we’ll have to see how the Bulls do without Captain Vic).

Anyhow, I digress…

With Agent Provocateurs abounding in the lead-up to the match, there was more than a hint of gentle ribbing and perhaps a more heartfelt belief that the supporters confidence in their side’s ability to beat the Stormers away from home was down more to arrogance than confidence, that simply being the Sharks grants the team some kind of god-given right to win.

Following the whole “ you never played our first side in the Currie Cup” argument (which is crap anyway, because a second string WP side should NOT lose to a 1st string Valke side) and Province’s failure to make the top four, somehow the fact that the Sharks won the tournament earned them this arrogance status, like they won and now everyone else was dogshit under their shoes?

Let’s just point out one thing, when your team has contested final after final (probably the most of any team) – and not won a single trophy in 12 years, when they do, you earn boasting rights – as does any other winning side.

The fact that it had been so long in the waiting gave supporters much relief that their side could actually get that “choker” bogey off their backs.

Anyway, the Currie Cup is long gone and a new coach and new tournament was here, a great match and confidence that our side could do it.

The Sunday Times’ headline with regards to the match was not along the lines of the Sharks winning, but the Stormers losing. Since when does failure merit the headline? Is it not arrogant to presume that they deserved the headline because they deserved the win? Or were expected to win?

I know there was some tongue-in-cheek, devils advocate baiting going on, but there was also an element of belief that we were arrogant fans.

I beg to differ.

We were confident, and our confidence was repaid. Thanks Sharks, you make me a proud supporter!



78 Comments

  • Nice read.

    I’m proud to be a Shark, Me!

  • Comment 1, posted at 17.02.09 07:19:01 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • i said i would be humble in victory. but baldrick never said he would. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 2, posted at 17.02.09 07:24:44 by try time Reply
    Super Rugby player
     
  • there is a good read on the sharks website. deon is spot on. but i see the team are unhappy with their stupid infringements after doing the hard work getting into the stormers 22. at least they will try to fix this before saturday.

  • Comment 3, posted at 17.02.09 07:27:03 by try time Reply
    Super Rugby player
     
  • It’s almost impossible to forget the dazed blinkered mid-season arrogance of the Stormer’s fans last S14… leading to such collective nouns as the ‘Jaco Van Der Westernprovinces’ being ‘coined’… and unfortunately this daze extended to the Bok squad make-up… perhaps the 3N would have been somewhat different with the likes of Monty, Kockot, Botes, JDP, Muller etc etc being used more extensively…

    As for this season… the Sharks for the most part… continue where they left off… general play-off contenders…

  • Comment 4, posted at 17.02.09 07:30:16 by bryce_in_oz Reply
    bryce_in_ozCurrie Cup player
     
  • Baldrick

    It all started when try time made his prediction last week.

    His comment was arrogant, full stop!

  • Comment 5, posted at 17.02.09 07:32:50 by wpw Reply
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  • @bryce_in_oz (Comment 4) :

    ‘genuine’ contenders nogal…

  • Comment 6, posted at 17.02.09 07:32:55 by bryce_in_oz Reply

    bryce_in_ozCurrie Cup player
     
  • baldrick after re reading your article, i wanted to know if you are a preacher man. because i felt i had to say “amen brother, hallelujah!”

  • Comment 7, posted at 17.02.09 07:33:33 by try time Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 5) :

    Did you just post a “But they started it” comment? :shock: :razz: :wink:

  • Comment 8, posted at 17.02.09 07:36:10 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @bryce_in_oz (Comment 4) :

    There’s that arrogance again!!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 9, posted at 17.02.09 07:36:11 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 5) : no, it was confidence. :lol:

  • Comment 10, posted at 17.02.09 07:36:28 by try time Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 8) :

    Uhm, yes!!! :twisted:

  • Comment 11, posted at 17.02.09 07:37:15 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 5) : and my confidence was based on fact and i was almost a hundred percent right.

  • Comment 12, posted at 17.02.09 07:37:22 by try time Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 11) :

    DUDE!!!!!!!!! Even if you behave like my 9 year old daughter I AIN’T adopting you. :razz: :razz: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 13, posted at 17.02.09 07:39:47 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 13) :

    Within 2 days your fridge will be empty for one, and I snore like a Bulls supporter!!! :shock: :???:

  • Comment 14, posted at 17.02.09 07:41:52 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 14) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 15, posted at 17.02.09 07:45:22 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • You glad you got that off your chest Baldi?

    There will be plenty of “I told you so’s” this year to come.

    I will rather reserve mine for the end of the competition… :twisted:

  • Comment 16, posted at 17.02.09 08:11:47 by MorneN Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • Oh and ain’t it strange how none of the Cape media have raised their “2nd CC Final” issues again.

    Now THAT was arrogant. :wink:

  • Comment 17, posted at 17.02.09 08:23:33 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 17) :

    Well at least the Stormers gave the Sharks a better run for their money than the finalists in the CC of last year…

  • Comment 18, posted at 17.02.09 08:25:24 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 18) :

    :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 19, posted at 17.02.09 08:35:49 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @MorneN (Comment 16) :

    Chief of the Jaco Van der WesternProvinces last season… mid-season…

  • Comment 20, posted at 17.02.09 08:45:04 by bryce_in_oz Reply

    bryce_in_ozCurrie Cup player
     
  • @bryce_in_oz (Comment 20) :

    I dont follow?

  • Comment 21, posted at 17.02.09 08:48:06 by MorneN Reply
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  • We can locate the equator and all sorts of invisible lines…but the thin line between arrogance and confidence will always be a source for debate…especially in the world of sports. :razz:

    We can’t see the future so we all base our predictions on facts (some choose to ignore these completely), assumptions and yes- affiliation. That system is bound to have a lot of errors along the way. So- if I feel confident about our chances before a match – that’s just that-confidence. If we happen to lose the game – that confidence should not be automatically converted to arrogance.

    Oh- and to all my stormers friends…our friendship is back on track… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 22, posted at 17.02.09 08:56:56 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 22) :

    The true difference between confidence and arrogance is determined by who the winner is. :wink:

  • Comment 23, posted at 17.02.09 09:00:49 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 23) : well then sharks supporters will be confident all season. the stormer’s and bull’s supporters will be arrogant all season.

  • Comment 24, posted at 17.02.09 09:07:24 by try time Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 23) :

    Which shouldn’t be the case – really.

    The reason we have “upsets”…is because now and then – the favourites or “confident” side do end up on the losing side.

    It’s the same as seeding players in a tennis competition…it’s based on past and expected results…but I don’t see anyone labelling the ATP as “arrogant” …

  • Comment 25, posted at 17.02.09 09:11:33 by blackshark Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 24) :

    No you misunderstood. :wink:

    If you are the winner you will think you are/were confident. If you are the loser you will think the winner was/is arrogant. :razz:

  • Comment 26, posted at 17.02.09 09:11:50 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @try time (Comment 24) :

    That statement is 70 percent confidence and 30 percent arrogance. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 27, posted at 17.02.09 09:13:52 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 25) :

    now and then – the favourites or “confident” side do end up on the losing side.

    And then they are labled as arrogant by the winning team for having boasted beforehand.

    It works the same in governments around the world were the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter depends on whether they are in power or not. :grin:

  • Comment 28, posted at 17.02.09 09:13:54 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @MorneN (Comment 16) : Hi Morne
    No, this wasn’t a told you so article – that is arrogance and bad sportemanship.

    In reviewing the game, it was outstanding, intense and great value for money. Take out missed tackles, lost opportunities and mistakes that hopefully both sides can attribute to preseason jitters (in the Sharks case, also a lack of match preparation as alluded to) and this was a really good game where the ascendacy see-sawed from one side to the other.

    Either side could have won and I’m glad it was my side. I had every confidence we would win, and I know most Stormers supporters felt the same way about their side, which is great, shows just how big that win was for the Sharks, because that is a fine Stormers side.

  • Comment 29, posted at 17.02.09 09:16:03 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 28) :

    I know people who “boast” before the game – but I’d like to think there’s a difference between that and the people who say ” Hey – I feel really good about our chances in this game”…

    How different is saying on a blog ” I think the Sharks will win by 8″ or picking “Sharks by 8 ” on SB ? is it all based on the same type of “arrogance” ? :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 30, posted at 17.02.09 09:21:28 by blackshark Reply

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  • Baldrick
    I saw that Sunday Times write up, by well known CRICKET scribe Colin Bryden. That was as one eyed as those guys that phoned in to Superrugby last night and gave Mark Lawrence :shock: the blame for the loss.

    Morne posted an article by Paul Dobson on another site which was much as I saw the game (other than mistaking Andries Bekker for Schalk Burger)- and Dobson is a well known Stormers man, but the article was honest and accurate in my biased view.

  • Comment 31, posted at 17.02.09 09:24:34 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 29) :

    Well if you write a whole article to ‘defend’ your views, comments and feelings it certainly does seem like a “nah nah nah-nah na” sticking your tongue out playground tactics being offended by what was written (headline you mentioned) or said in the build-up the match.

    Since the team was announced, and even throughout the game commentating on here I had more confidence in a Sharks victory than the Sharks supporters online at the time!

  • Comment 32, posted at 17.02.09 09:33:03 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 32) : na na na na na na hey hey hey sharkies

  • Comment 33, posted at 17.02.09 09:38:44 by try time Reply

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  • @MorneN (Comment 32) :

    I’d like to think this article is not about last week…but just tapping into the psyche of Sports fans in general.

  • Comment 34, posted at 17.02.09 09:39:23 by blackshark Reply

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  • @MorneN (Comment 32) : You have me totally wrong. I am not defending anything. Last week there was talk of arrogant Sharks supporters (Try time especially with his article pointing to why he felt the Sharks would win) and I am trying to figure out the difference between arrogance and confidence.

    Is it a fine line? If supporters of both sides believe their team will win, who is arrogant and who is confident. Obviously it is in the way they put across their feelings.

    The article was in no way meant to assume arrogance or a told you so or showing bad sportsmanship in winning, it’s having a go at people who called Sharks supporters arrogant for having confidence in their side’s ability to win.

    Don’t take it so personal.

  • Comment 35, posted at 17.02.09 09:42:04 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Baldrick (Comment 35) : no my article was blind confidence, which is very close to arrogance, but slightly off centre from all out confidence, just a little left of pride, and almost realism, with a little optimism to counteract the pessimism felt after the game.

  • Comment 36, posted at 17.02.09 09:47:05 by try time Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 35) : In reference to Try Time, I am not saying he was arrogant, but that the article he wrote was perceived to be arrogant by some.

  • Comment 37, posted at 17.02.09 09:49:00 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @try time (Comment 36) :

    There’s always a bit of arrogance in confidence…and vice versa.:lol:

    This is starting to feel like a psychology lesson… :evil:

    Where’s Piet Pienaar??? Let’s gang up on the Bulls…

  • Comment 38, posted at 17.02.09 09:49:46 by blackshark Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 36) : I wrote comment 37 before I read your comment.

    You’re a strange dude – confident and optimistic before the game. When your confidence is repaid and the sharks win, you go all pessimistic and negative!

  • Comment 39, posted at 17.02.09 09:51:47 by Baldrick Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 35) :

    No, no, no…

    You got me wrong here.

    Firstly I dont take anything personal.

    Secondly, every supporter is confident in their team’s ability or chances to win a match. That is the nature of a sportsfan.

    Confidence turns to arrogance once there is a lack of respect displayed by either party, to another party. I don’t think it applies here or to this site, visit Voldy to find that in abundance.

    Accusations of arrogance is also very much a defence mechanism. Which was what is now levelled against the Sharks in general and was done against the Bulls in the past couple of years.

    Being confident in something or someone means you do not take what Gavin Rich or any other spin-doctor write serious.

    Being worried about your team’s chances does not mean you lose faith or confidence in them, it just means you are a realist.

    Baiting supporters is part and parcel of rugby.

    Keeping it decent depends on the general level of respect and realism you apply to it.

    Don’t be concerned if someone calls the Sharks or their supporters arrogant, rather enjoy the fact that they are feeling insecure with their own convictions by calling you that!

  • Comment 40, posted at 17.02.09 09:51:49 by MorneN Reply
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  • Who would have thought the stir would have got so far :grin:

  • Comment 41, posted at 17.02.09 09:53:16 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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    Worcestershire SauceCurrie Cup player
     
  • @MorneN (Comment 32) : “I had more confidence in a Sharks victory than the Sharks supporters online at the time!”

    OK, so let me get this right. If a non-supporter believes a team will win, he has confidence in that team. If that team’s supporters also believe that team will win, they’re arrogant?

    OK, I get it now.

  • Comment 42, posted at 17.02.09 09:53:46 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @MorneN (Comment 40) :

    Top post… *thumbs up* :wink:

  • Comment 43, posted at 17.02.09 09:54:22 by blackshark Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 37) : @blackshark (Comment 38) : look personally i don’t care if there is arrogance or confidence it is how you show yourself in victory. a little rivalry adds to the game and atmosphere, but if you are a p..s after the game cos your team won then i have no time for you. but in saying that everyone has been civil since the game. so bring on walter and hmmm for this weekends game.

  • Comment 44, posted at 17.02.09 09:54:25 by try time Reply

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  • @MorneN (Comment 40) : yeah keep the baiting going, i’ll grab it every time. :lol:

  • Comment 45, posted at 17.02.09 09:55:38 by try time Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 42) :

    How can you call me a non-supporter?

    We are all supporters of the game, associations does not change that.

    How can I by association to the Stormers be arrogant if I tip the opposition team to win which I did. Does that make me a traitor or a realist?

  • Comment 46, posted at 17.02.09 09:57:04 by MorneN Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 45) :

    It is what I am good at!

  • Comment 47, posted at 17.02.09 09:58:51 by MorneN Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 46) : Depends if you are an annorack :lol:

  • Comment 48, posted at 17.02.09 09:59:39 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 41) :

    Getting the spoon of the year awarded to you in February IS quite an achievement. :razz:

  • Comment 49, posted at 17.02.09 10:01:44 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 48) :

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    So true

  • Comment 50, posted at 17.02.09 10:01:47 by MorneN Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 49) : I worked hard for it ! :lol:

    Its worth noting i don’t think any of the fans here are arrogant – true believers with a blinkered blind my team will always win kind of attitude

  • Comment 51, posted at 17.02.09 10:06:43 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 49) :

    We’ll make it a wooden spoon… :grin:

  • Comment 52, posted at 17.02.09 10:09:19 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 52) : Nah thats resevered entirely for Lions and Cheetahs supporters

  • Comment 53, posted at 17.02.09 10:12:29 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • I’m disappointed in most of you. This is worse than the bloody office politics that we have at our office from time to time . It’s childish and I will have no part of it….I’ll be back when we start talking rugby again. Goodbye. :evil:

  • Comment 54, posted at 17.02.09 10:14:40 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 54) :

    How about those Sharks?

  • Comment 55, posted at 17.02.09 10:19:38 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 55) :

    hey don’t be arrogant. :lol:

  • Comment 56, posted at 17.02.09 10:21:11 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • hey all, just spoke to one of my friends, and he confident the lions is taking the super14!!! :lol:
    all i said in reply is ill call him from kings park on saturday!!! :grin: what does that make me????

  • Comment 57, posted at 17.02.09 10:21:49 by willa Reply

    willaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @willa (Comment 57) :

    Lucky…

    That you live in DBN and can go and watch the game live.

  • Comment 58, posted at 17.02.09 10:25:02 by MorneN Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 51) : I think in the prematch hype, when people start saying they are going to bliksem the opposition or thump them, then that kind of terminology is definitely arrogance, and dispicable.

    I’d hate to be a supporter who said that before WP played the Valke last year and lost.

    And as Try time says, the guys who is not magnanimous in victory is – well, an idiot.

    I believe we deserved to win, and I believed we would win. But I anticipated a tight game thanks to the quality of the opposition.

  • Comment 59, posted at 17.02.09 10:27:39 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @willa (Comment 57) : It’s not what it makes you, it’s what he said that makes him…

  • Comment 60, posted at 17.02.09 10:30:10 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Baldrick (Comment 59) : I agree – you did deserve to win. Any team who has Joe as there back up flyhalf is in deep… well you know and i think the Tjorks did an excellent job in closing out and despite what everyone says Jean or no Jean i think you guys still would have taken it. A thouroughly deserved victory

    * Now stop gloating :grin:
    ** Stir Stir

  • Comment 61, posted at 17.02.09 10:33:49 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @MorneN (Comment 58) : actualy i live in jhb, but ive driven down about 26 times in the last 2 years for the games, they have not lost a game everytime ive been there!!!

  • Comment 62, posted at 17.02.09 10:33:49 by willa Reply

    willaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @willa (Comment 62) :

    Well I hope you are not driving back with the Lions after they beat you with that record!

  • Comment 63, posted at 17.02.09 10:37:51 by MorneN Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 61) :

    You don’t drive down for semis and finals? :???:

  • Comment 64, posted at 17.02.09 10:38:50 by blackshark Reply

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  • @willa (Comment 62) : Now that’s a fan….keep going to those games my friend. :grin:

  • Comment 65, posted at 17.02.09 10:39:19 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @willa (Comment 62) : Is it not easier and cheaper to fly?

  • Comment 66, posted at 17.02.09 10:41:49 by Pokkel Reply
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  • i missed the super14 final,the brumbies, and lions cc semi 07, my brother got married on the day of the final last year,and we left after the wedding to the game!!!

  • Comment 67, posted at 17.02.09 10:46:40 by willa Reply

    willaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 66) : company petrol card :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 68, posted at 17.02.09 10:47:59 by willa Reply

    willaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @blackshark (Comment 64) : Surely you meant that for Willa

  • Comment 69, posted at 17.02.09 10:48:47 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • ARROGANT

  • Comment 70, posted at 17.02.09 10:48:54 by Hmmm Reply

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  • @willa (Comment 68) : is willa a big version of willie? :lol:

  • Comment 71, posted at 17.02.09 10:59:02 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 71) : does it go whopper, willa, willie, then stormer. :lol:

  • Comment 72, posted at 17.02.09 10:59:58 by try time Reply

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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 69) :
    :oops: Yeah I did…

    @willa (Comment 67) :

    Try and make it for this year’s semi and final… :lol:

  • Comment 73, posted at 17.02.09 11:07:23 by blackshark Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 71) : no its a smaller version for william :lol: people complain its to long!!!! :lol:

  • Comment 74, posted at 17.02.09 11:32:10 by willa Reply

    willaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @willa (Comment 74) : did you see that mix of arrogance and confidence :lol:

  • Comment 75, posted at 17.02.09 11:35:01 by willa Reply

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  • @willa (Comment 75) : :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 76, posted at 17.02.09 12:42:58 by try time Reply

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  • @willa (Comment 74) : talk about getting the chop. :lol:

  • Comment 77, posted at 17.02.09 12:43:35 by try time Reply

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  • @willa (Comment 74) : @willa (Comment 75) :

    ha ha ha … good one/s :lol:

  • Comment 78, posted at 17.02.09 13:04:47 by blackshark Reply

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