The ghost of try time

Player Burnout or Burnt Out Excuse?


Written by cheers had fun (The ghost of try time)

Posted in :Original Content on 1 Jun 2009 at 09:46
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Too much rugby? Or is it a simple matter of Unions not using their resources wisely?

Almost every year South African Rugby adds more games to the itinerary, and every year we hear people complain about how the top players in SA are over worked and burnt out. A few days later you will hear someone else say that South Africa has a great pool of players and there are hundreds of talented players waiting to be given a chance. So why don’t we? Why aren’t we placing youngsters in already strong setups and giving them a chance to grow, while keeping your older experienced players to pass on valuable knowledge and leadership? Instead of getting rid of our burnt out players for the latest sensation, why aren’t we seeing more “Albert van der Berg” scenarios? The Sharks have added years onto Albert’s career by turning him into an impact player. Similarly we could be extending other top players careers by letting them come off the bench giving them sufficient rest time all the while ensuring that when the team is down they can be called upon to win the game. This means you have valuable experience guiding more youngsters within the team setup, instead of having the youngsters playing inferior competitions and then throwing them in the deep end when an injury arises.

During the Super 14 the Shark’s poor player management was the main contributor in their wasting a great chance at getting the Super 14 trophy. The Sharks were quick to blame it on the injury crisis, but compare this to the Bulls, Crusaders and Chiefs that also had big injuries this season, the excuse is lame. The Sharks simply didn’t give their backup the game time needed to be able to step in with the least disruption. The Sharks need to look at their academy and feeder teams and start bringing promising players into the mix, before these youngsters get dis-illusioned and head off to greener pastures.

This new proposed Super 15 could just be the kick start SA Rugby and Sharks need to start using our player resources wisely. The Currie Cup can still be played, but it should have the up and coming players taking part. The Currie Cup could be the perfect breeding ground for future stars. With the top players out it will handicap the top five Unions enough that the lesser Unions get much needed victories to bring spectators to their stadiums and funds into their coffers.  Sharks can get to use older players that can guide and prepare the youngsters for Super Rugby. The Vodacom Cup could then be turned into an under 21 competition to expose youngsters to top class rugby and give Unions a chance to see who is ready for the Currie Cup and Super Rugby. The overall positive effect can only strengthen rugby in South Africa as well as the Boks, hopefully doubling the Bok player pool from 125 to 250.

Let’s hope the Sharks have learnt from their poor judgement and do what the Bulls did this year…Chumps to Champs in 365 days. We have the experienced players to guide, lets find the stars that will fill and strengthen the squad. The Currie Cup this year is the perfect platform for the Sharks to fine tune young players and create a squad that will finally win that elusive Super trophy.



91 Comments

  • good post, TT…

  • Comment 1, posted at 01.06.09 09:56:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : thanks.

  • Comment 2, posted at 01.06.09 10:04:24 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • Anybody up there listning to this :?: :?:

  • Comment 3, posted at 01.06.09 10:21:17 by Pokkel Reply
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  • It is structures across the board that needs to be addressed, from schools to clubs. They all need to buy into the unions vision – that is what the Bulls get right.

  • Comment 4, posted at 01.06.09 10:23:06 by Morné Reply
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  • didnt dick muir try using currie cup to blood players to win super 14, the result was missing CC semis in 2006 and because of a combined effort by steve walsh, bryce lawrence and bryan habana, ended as super 14 runners up.

  • Comment 5, posted at 01.06.09 10:23:07 by war1 Reply
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  • oh also add frans steyn to those that messed with super 14 title

  • Comment 6, posted at 01.06.09 10:23:49 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 5) : interesting, and plum won a cc with his top players and was found wanting when they were injured this year. mmm makes you think.

  • Comment 7, posted at 01.06.09 10:24:59 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • so, its a good plan, except we have a currie cup title to defend this year

  • Comment 8, posted at 01.06.09 10:25:05 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 6) : well he is going, even more reason to get our backup/ depth primed.

  • Comment 9, posted at 01.06.09 10:26:05 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • so do we conclude that you can’t win both CC and S14, does one have to be sacrificed?

  • Comment 10, posted at 01.06.09 10:26:11 by war1 Reply
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  • Yes good post with suggestions of spreading the exposure throughout the ranks.
    Will we be brave enough to do it?

  • Comment 11, posted at 01.06.09 10:27:04 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 4) : yeah coz bulletjies were competitive in last year’s CC and then won this year’s super 14, what have they been doing differently?

  • Comment 12, posted at 01.06.09 10:28:23 by war1 Reply
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  • doesn’t sharks currie cup look petty next to two bulls super trophies. it is about priorities. win a cc, and then waste the best fixture list for a sa s14 side 3 months later.

  • Comment 13, posted at 01.06.09 10:28:46 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @war1 (Comment 12) :

    One just has to look how involved the union is in the club and school structures and vica versa to get an idea of the buy-in I am talking of here.

    They are all on the same page and speak the same language and compliment one another.

  • Comment 14, posted at 01.06.09 10:30:39 by Morné Reply
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  • YAa – give bench a run.

    But TT – who are these senior players to guide. The Bulls have Bakkies, Victor, Fairy & maybe even Habs. We have John Smit – who is taken off in 60th minute.

  • Comment 15, posted at 01.06.09 10:31:01 by rekinek Reply
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  • I think that last year’s CC run really started with the convincing win over griquas, from then on they had this air of invincibility quiet confidence and from there I knew the title was coming to durban, so is it confidence that brings titles and to a lesser extent how you use your players? for example this year’s super14 really fell apart after the cheetahs defeat, suddenly the guys lost games where they were dominating in some ways, even bulls game, we played excellently but still lost, was that coz of lack of confidence? i read somewhere that victor said that’s when they knew they could win the S14, any thoughts?

  • Comment 16, posted at 01.06.09 10:33:18 by war1 Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 15) :

    Smit, Muller, Jacobs, Stefan.

  • Comment 17, posted at 01.06.09 10:33:49 by Morné Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 16) :

    insightful post!

  • Comment 18, posted at 01.06.09 10:34:41 by wiLLem Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 17) : maybe then somebody should tell adi that – because for sure not looking like that.

    Muller – ok,
    Stef – thought about him but … no.

  • Comment 19, posted at 01.06.09 10:36:59 by rekinek Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 16) :

    They lost it much earlier than that as they kept repeating the same mistakes over and over again game after game.

  • Comment 20, posted at 01.06.09 10:37:10 by Morné Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 19) :

    What is the definition of a senior player then?

  • Comment 21, posted at 01.06.09 10:37:51 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 17) : Odwa

  • Comment 22, posted at 01.06.09 10:39:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 22) :

    And him

  • Comment 23, posted at 01.06.09 10:40:49 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 21) : somebody with experience (national level preferrable) and leadership qualities + actually leading.

    not just old and played long. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 24, posted at 01.06.09 10:41:21 by rekinek Reply
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  • TT very good article, now I would like to put a question to you guys as sharks supporters do you have the expieience or talent that is required to win the Super 14, I think and it is my own opinion that the sharks have a great acadamy set up and in a couple of years a lot of really good players coming through, but I am not convinced you have the players to win you a super 14, hence Plum playing his big boys all the time ??

  • Comment 25, posted at 01.06.09 10:42:57 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 25) : you are spot on… they had the opportunity to groom a youngster as backup to Deysel in last year’s CC already and they screwed it up.

    In terms of flyhalves and fullbacks, nothing has been done to plug what is clearly a HUGE hole.

  • Comment 26, posted at 01.06.09 10:44:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 24) :

    All of those I mentioned has been playing for a couple of years, and all have been capped. More than just once or twice…

  • Comment 27, posted at 01.06.09 10:48:12 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 26) : looking at our VC team i think we have really good backup . . . except at flyhalf and fullback, coz monty dumond does not convince me, and len needs game time, hopefully in this CC we can give len some game time, as was the original plan when he was signed last year

  • Comment 28, posted at 01.06.09 10:48:22 by war1 Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 25) :

    Double edged sword.

    The only way you get experience is by playing guys.

    It is the balance coaches struggle with, to at times bench his first choice players and give guys in the wings a go.

    Players, especially incumbents are not always happy with this either…

  • Comment 29, posted at 01.06.09 10:50:08 by Morné Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 28) : But are they up to Super 14 standard, yes they did well in the vodacom cup, but that is like two divisions below Super 14 and by the time they get put on for S14 , they are out of their depth, so yes they are good players and SA has a lot of those, but how many can make it at s14 level??

  • Comment 30, posted at 01.06.09 10:51:48 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 21) :
    Anyone on the Stormers shopping list.

  • Comment 31, posted at 01.06.09 10:51:57 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 15) : @Morné (Comment 17) : deon, odwa, ruan, jp i would also add to that list. i would also bring back barritt, butch (and maybe frans) when their overseas stint is over.

  • Comment 32, posted at 01.06.09 10:54:44 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 31) :

    Rassie is said to be looking for another prop and center.

    Already got a lock from the Lions and Chris Jack for the CC.

    I saw OO mentioned Meyer Bosman is being targeted.

  • Comment 33, posted at 01.06.09 10:54:46 by Morné Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 25) :
    Right, but then even more reason to make sure that those that you have got in back up positions are given every opportunity to be ready for the big occassion when it comes, because it will surely come at some stage.

  • Comment 34, posted at 01.06.09 10:55:13 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 29) : Agree Morne , but I still feel somewhere between VC and CC they should be showing and giving the coach enough encouragement to put that faith in them. I don’t think to many have shone to that extent.

  • Comment 35, posted at 01.06.09 10:55:48 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 33) :

    Perhaps we can make Jaque Fourie a great offer… ;)

  • Comment 36, posted at 01.06.09 10:56:14 by Morné Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 30) : true and i guess that we have got to play them in currie cup to find out, and also not against the little guys but in the big games, otherwise when they get to the super 14 they are out of their depth because they have not played in this high pressure situations, maybe this is why plum chose ndlovu ahead downey when deysel was injured, becuase ndlovu had some experience from last years CC

  • Comment 37, posted at 01.06.09 10:56:23 by war1 Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 27) : that I know – but are they leading ?

  • Comment 38, posted at 01.06.09 10:56:24 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 35) :

    I quite like the idea of different coaches coaching the team at different levels, i.s. Plum should just concentrate on the S14 and take on a role of DOR for VC and CC games.

    Within that he needs to set deliverables for those coaching teams at the lower levels, such as he wants depth developed at 10, 12, 7 and 15.

    He can then simply concentrate on evaluating the talent in the ranks.

  • Comment 39, posted at 01.06.09 10:58:38 by Morné Reply
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  • whats the average age of the sharks xv? im actually quite excited for this year’s CC coz seems like lots of youngsters in that squad and performed quite well, lots of potential

  • Comment 40, posted at 01.06.09 10:58:49 by war1 Reply
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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 32) : the core of sharks players is quite young but have a very good international experience. and I would agree that sharks start looking for leadership to jp, ruan and maybe even kanko – but the problem is they are giving none :???:

  • Comment 41, posted at 01.06.09 10:58:51 by rekinek Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 16) : it started with the return of senior players to lead. deysel and fred were back from injury and slowly we started getting the bok benchers back. that is what really did it. problem is we lost brad and fred and we never gave any guys a chance to get combos right in case of injuries. who was given game time during cc to replace deysel and ruan? yet it was their injuries that put the biggest strain on the team.

  • Comment 42, posted at 01.06.09 10:59:17 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @rekinek (Comment 38) :

    If they are not they should not be there.

  • Comment 43, posted at 01.06.09 10:59:23 by Morné Reply
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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 32) : Now you are talking get some expieience onto that bench. Look at the Bulls bench its awesome, Danie Russouw a world cup winner on the bench, they have young chillyboy whoI have to say has done a great job as the back up hooker pedrie wanneburg not my favourite player but an expierienced Bok

  • Comment 44, posted at 01.06.09 11:01:09 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 33) :
    No flyhalf, does that mean that Peter Grant may still be around for a a year or two. Any truth in the Earl Rose to WP rumours.

  • Comment 45, posted at 01.06.09 11:01:35 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 25) : we don’t know cos plum doesn’t use his bench. we all know what lions, bulls, cheetahs and wp have. but how good are our youngsters?

  • Comment 46, posted at 01.06.09 11:03:27 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 45) :

    Grant is apparently staying, and yes Rose is also apparently on his way back – nothing confirmed yet.

  • Comment 47, posted at 01.06.09 11:03:48 by Morné Reply
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  • ok guys been great chatting, i gotta go be productive, my masters degree is not gonna get itself done will log on later today

  • Comment 48, posted at 01.06.09 11:07:31 by war1 Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 43) : that’s a scary though – but in a way true.
    I say in a way because you will get good players but not leaders but your team needs leaders and if there is too few leaders then – goodbye.

  • Comment 49, posted at 01.06.09 11:09:16 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 47) : Thank the pope for that, you are most welcome to mr Rose, he will probably have a blinder of a season next year but I am willing to take that chance!!

  • Comment 50, posted at 01.06.09 11:09:51 by Whindy Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 41) : i think they have been stuffed around by poor game plan. ryan has been left to do things by himself. he is getting very little assistence. jp is good when he gets the ball but he seems to be put in between fullback and wing and that keeps him out of the action. ruan needs a little time to settle. but again rory doesn’t help him out.

  • Comment 51, posted at 01.06.09 11:10:31 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Whindy (Comment 50) :

    So am I, but I am not the coach…

    We really stack them up here, Watson, Rose,…

    All we need now is Jonathan Kaplan as advisor and we have the most hated people in SA rugby in one province!

  • Comment 52, posted at 01.06.09 11:12:43 by Morné Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 44) : exactly what my point in the article is, don’t start with the big boys, use them off the bench. danie roussouw has proven to be a great asset off the bench, and the bulls lighties that started returned the trust the coach put in them.

  • Comment 53, posted at 01.06.09 11:14:52 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 51) : just had a thought about rory as a leader – got scared :mrgreen:

  • Comment 54, posted at 01.06.09 11:18:25 by rekinek Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 48) : see yaa.

    gotta go to :???:

  • Comment 55, posted at 01.06.09 11:19:16 by rekinek Reply
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  • as an extra i would like to highlight the cheetahs. although they ended last their youngsters really shone. the sharks youngsters could do the same, but no faith is put in them.

  • Comment 56, posted at 01.06.09 11:20:04 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @rekinek (Comment 54) : i had the same feeling as him as a scrumhalf. :lol: :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 57, posted at 01.06.09 11:22:57 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • Dewald Potgieter, has been a revalation this season and as you say he has been given the chance i am sure the same could be said of young Ndlovu had he been given more of a chance

  • Comment 58, posted at 01.06.09 11:33:38 by Whindy Reply
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  • a very good post TT, if only the idiots in charge can open their eyes and start using their brains.

  • Comment 59, posted at 01.06.09 11:43:34 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 58) : problem with Skollie is, he’s an opsensider and we already have two good ones. He’s not second in line – he’s third.

    I really hope that Zuks is given an extended run – preferabl at outside centre – this Currie Cup.

    Don’t get your hopes up aboue Len at flyhalf, though. I reckon we’ll see Monty and/or Guy Cronje being played ahead of him

  • Comment 60, posted at 01.06.09 11:56:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 59) : anyone god Plummo and Dolfie’s email addresses?

  • Comment 61, posted at 01.06.09 11:59:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : if i had, i wouldve mailed them everyday :mrgreen:

  • Comment 62, posted at 01.06.09 12:28:25 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 62) : he he… restraining order! I reckon I’d have one of those meself!

  • Comment 63, posted at 01.06.09 12:43:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) :
    Brad Barrit has both.

  • Comment 64, posted at 01.06.09 12:56:29 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : i too, would like to see the youngsters get a run, they cant screw up worse than the vets. I mean, give them a chance dammit :twisted:

  • Comment 65, posted at 01.06.09 12:58:17 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 64) : yeah – sure he does. Not going to help me, though

  • Comment 66, posted at 01.06.09 12:58:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) :

    I’d mail it to you, but then TT would accuse me of being a stalker again.. :roll: :wink:

  • Comment 67, posted at 01.06.09 12:59:27 by Prof. Ice Reply
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  • @Prof. Ice (Comment 67) : ignor blooy TT :) What does he know?

  • Comment 68, posted at 01.06.09 13:02:00 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 65) :
    I agree, but wait till you try that and the team lose one or two games to the likes of Griquas or SWD and then see the abuse the coaches have to take from us. A few seasons, when Plum was coaching the CC side the Sharks were developing a dual team with backline players being exposed to different positions. All was going well until a weaker side made the trip to Kimberley and got a whack. Plum took a lot of criticism for that and I wonder if that is still not at the back of his mind with his team management now.

  • Comment 69, posted at 01.06.09 13:33:36 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 69) : actually it was Dick Muir…

  • Comment 70, posted at 01.06.09 13:57:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Prof. Ice (Comment 67) : ice isn’t your avatar a pic of you taken on one of stalk-a-pades? isn’t that you climbing over ruan’s wall? :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 71, posted at 01.06.09 14:05:18 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 68) : not much, but don’t tell anyone. :lol:

  • Comment 72, posted at 01.06.09 14:05:50 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 69) : yes but dick used two seperate teams then. and that experiment got us into a home final 6 months later. i am saying keep the experienced guys on the bench in case things go slightly wrong, but give the laaities a chance to prove themselves. the sharks xv team did well in the vc, but we have no clue how these guys will perform in s14 because they aren’t given a chance.

  • Comment 73, posted at 01.06.09 14:10:45 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 70) :
    I thought it was Plum in the time that Dick Muir was in New Zealand doing his coaching coarse. Either way the coach took lots of flak for their decision.

  • Comment 74, posted at 01.06.09 14:13:03 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 73) : but it has to start in Currie Cup… it has to start with a system where we know who the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and fourth guy is in each position. It’s called succession planning and we’re not doing it!

  • Comment 75, posted at 01.06.09 14:21:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 75) :

    Nah just planning.

    Succession planning has the word success in it… :twisted:

  • Comment 76, posted at 01.06.09 14:28:35 by Morné Reply
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  • maybe they should leave the Boks completely out of the CC, thats how the Cheetahs won the cup 3 years in a row, they barely lost any players to the Boks

  • Comment 77, posted at 01.06.09 14:30:00 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 75) : I wrote an article about that… I wish I could find it

  • Comment 78, posted at 01.06.09 14:30:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 75) : 100 percent correct. and the person next in line mustn’t be thrown in on a wednesday after doctors rule out a player. he needs to be there from the start. he must know the calls and he must know how the guys around him play. we give monty grief, but the guy was thrown in less than a week before a game and is expected to know what the hell is going on. and if he is on the bench, he must get a start. even if it is only 5 minutes.

  • Comment 79, posted at 01.06.09 14:32:43 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @JarsonX (Comment 77) : yeah that is the wise thing to do. but the unions say they pay for the guys so they must play. sa rugby has to contract the top 45 players in the country. and then they can also make sure players are distributed evenly. no point in having the three top players in a position playing for one union, while the remaining sa teams are in need of quality players in that position.

  • Comment 80, posted at 01.06.09 14:37:53 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @JarsonX (Comment 77) : also the boks then will be fresh for the year end tour, and we will have better success rates. or send the sa b side in november. let the top players rest for super rugby.

  • Comment 81, posted at 01.06.09 14:39:43 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 78) : nah – I think it was for Ruggaworld…

    @Morné (Comment 76) : we have won 1 more Currie Cup in the last 5 years than your boys have, though :)

  • Comment 82, posted at 01.06.09 14:40:51 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 80) : @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 81) : agree with that, but what do we know :twisted:

  • Comment 83, posted at 01.06.09 14:42:18 by JarsonX Reply
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  • if you want to be the best, you’ve got to beat the best or at least play against them to improve yourself

  • Comment 84, posted at 01.06.09 14:45:28 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 83) : we don’t have the union paying us a salary out of the profits to cloud our vision. when your bonus is on the line you screw players.

  • Comment 85, posted at 01.06.09 15:04:39 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 73) :
    Dont get me wrong, I like your idea and think it is the way to go, but should it backfire then all hell will be spewed at the coaches by us the supporters – human nature.

  • Comment 86, posted at 01.06.09 15:12:25 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 85) : well they should :razz: i’ll let them cloud my vision if the green is good. And NO! I’m not talking about the stuff u smoke :roll:

  • Comment 87, posted at 01.06.09 15:14:55 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 77) :

    2007 maybe- but 2005 & 2006

    no ways

  • Comment 88, posted at 01.06.09 15:15:41 by wiLLem Reply

    wiLLemVodacom Cup player
     
  • @wiLLem (Comment 88) : i dont remember the facts, i just remember the bulls didnt win the cup :lol: :evil:

  • Comment 89, posted at 01.06.09 15:20:03 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 89) :

    :cool:

  • Comment 90, posted at 01.06.09 15:32:07 by wiLLem Reply

    wiLLemVodacom Cup player
     
  • what a sloooow afternoon

  • Comment 91, posted at 01.06.09 15:34:21 by robdylan Reply
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