Morné

‘Hey, you missed a good test series!’


Written by Morné Nortier (Morné)

Posted in :2009 Lions Tour, Original Content, Springboks on 1 Jul 2009 at 08:15

The Lions series up till now reminded me of a movie I saw many years back, 12 Monkeys. After the movie I thought; “Wow! What an absolute waste of my time”.

Years later however I found myself in front of a television and the movie just happened to be on again. This time, knowing basically what the storyline (or lack of one) was, I actually realised what a brilliant movie it actually was.

This Lions series strikes me as something similar.

Somehow we lost the plot completely about what this series is all about, the actual rugby. It seems every man and his dog choose to focus on all the sideshows and for some unbeknown reason rugby is actually taking the backseat, or rather, forced into the background.

At first I thought it is typical Pom press who would like to deflect attention away from the series loss they suffered, I mean as far as I read their reports this Lions team is made out to be heroes! But at closer inspection, I found that even the South African press and supporters on blogs and on newspapers would rather comment on off-field drama’s than realise and enjoy the fact that we have just won a Lions series – a team we will not see for another 12 years!

Peter Bills writing for the IOL yesterday started his column asking whether there was in fact any rugby going on, because he seemed to have missed it. Now at first I thought; ‘Nice, finally someone that will focus on our series win’… But unfortunately he continued to blabber on spewing drivel in the same vein most media men chose to do in recent days following the test series win.

Reports and comments have basically ranged from ‘ag whatever’, to shocking to absolute gutter journalism and views.

I remember an article from Gavin Rich last year just after we lost to Australia in Durban, where he had a go at the national coach and those who support him, saying that Peter de Villiers when he got appointed asked to be judged on rugby alone, so his criticism was well justified and Peter de Villiers, according to him, way out of his depth. Fair enough I thought, let’s judge him on rugby.

That was the last test De Villiers lost to date.

I should have known better than to think that since that loss in Durban, things will change when De Villiers starts winning, because as soon as he started snotting Australia and England, individuals resorted to unsubstantiated character assassination that even included sex scandal claims, to the coach being an embarrassment to the nations and the Springbok because he addresses the media (with the respect they deserve in my view, which is none) differently. And after reading the unedited (read media spin and bullshit removed) script of the full media briefing on Monday the only embarrassment I could pick up was that of the media who should hang their heads in shame.

Now that Peter de Villiers cannot be judged on rugby anymore as Gavin Rich promised, because he is currently sitting with a better winning record than Nick Mallet, they attack his character and at times, even his religion and his political affiliation.

It made me think of another movie I once saw, Enemy of the State, where the one baddy instructed his troops to find any dirt on the guy that threatened their existence even if it was finding out that he has a porn collection or watched a porn movie when he was 12 years old.

It got more ridiculous than that, ‘Sources close to certain media men’ (we never get to know who these sources are) claims that since our Durban defeat, where Gavin Rich promised to only judge him on rugby and asked us to read his criticism as that, the Boks only started winning because the players took charge in the Bok camp – superseding management…

Probably the most ridiculous thing I have heard in the history of rugby!

The Boks as a team has improved from one that only managed to win 66% of their matches, to one that is currently winning 73% of their matches, and if we win this weekend, we will not only be the first Bok team to whitewash a touring British and Irish Lions team in the history of this series, but they will be winning 75% of their matches.

For those who missed it, the Springboks just won a British and Lions test series, something we failed to do 12 years ago, and something we can cherish for the next 12 years.

But I suppose, full appreciation of this achievement will only come years from now when people sit back, knowing what the outcome or storyline is, and simply enjoy the amazing RUGBY we have witnessed the past couple of weeks.



186 Comments

  • Great stuff Morne…Good choice of movies as well :wink:

    GO PDV…GO BOKKE :!: :!: :!: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 1, posted at 01.07.09 08:23:36 by Charlie Reply
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  • I really enjoyed the Loftus test…we scored great tries…does anyone remember those?

    Looking forward to the whitewash – hope the ref will give us a clean match.

    Go Bokke!

  • Comment 2, posted at 01.07.09 08:34:51 by blackshark Reply
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  • I have been looking forward to this series for years and have enjoyed the rugby ( excluding some provincial games ).

    But can we turn a blind eye to what is happening off the field? Does it not bother you that we are being seen as a bunch of idiots out there?

    Like wpw said yesterday ‘draw a line between PdV the coach and PdV the public speaker’
    Thats easy for an individual to do but unfortunately the press will never do that and the bottom line is that he is an embarrasment to the country at the moment and there is no denying that.

    OK so I got a bit emotional yesterday in my posts….for all I know PdV is a brilliant coach….but SA Rugby needs to keep him away from the press for his own good and the good of SA Rugby and it’s fans.

  • Comment 3, posted at 01.07.09 08:37:26 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I truly believe that the Boks are gonna run riot on the weekend and we’ll probably give the Lions the big hiding they deserve.

  • Comment 4, posted at 01.07.09 08:38:47 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 3) : My concern is that the continious negative press will start impacting on the players and our overall game

  • Comment 5, posted at 01.07.09 08:42:13 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @blackshark (Comment 2) :

    Last night Supersport showed some snippets of the Boks training but somehow I still didn’t see John Smit holding a whistle and running the session.

    Oh wait, he was part of the session and actually following instructions from PDV.

    Holy Sh*t!! :shock:

  • Comment 6, posted at 01.07.09 08:44:05 by wpw Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 3) :

    Out of respect for this site I will not repeat what I said elsewhere.

    But do yourself a favour if you have not already, hop over to planet rugby and read the full unedited transcript of this media briefing, and then compare it to what is written in the media and please explain to me who, or how he embarrassed himself or our rugby or rugby traditions?

    If that does not show you how manipulative the media is in how they twist facts and quote out of context to drive agendas then I cannot offer you any other opinion on this matter.

    Also, if you do see what I am referring to, ask yourself, how many times in the past, where quotes and press conferences taken out of context by media men? How easy do we believe it? And then, who can you actually trust?

    The guy on the field giving you the results, or people sitting behind desks and PC’s that dismissed him out of hand the day he got appointed, before he even lifted a finger…???

    PJLD and Big Fish have been part of press conferences in the recent past, you can easily ask them the difference about what is said at these events, and what we read in print or on blogs thereafter.

  • Comment 7, posted at 01.07.09 08:44:09 by Morné Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 3) :

    I noticed you are speaking ‘on behalf’ of the country. :mrgreen:

    Who cares what the British media thinks of us??

    We beat them in a test series that only comes around once every decade and that is what matters in my opinion.

  • Comment 8, posted at 01.07.09 08:46:31 by wpw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 7) : OK I will go read those transcripts, but if that is the case we still need to manage the situation properly. He might be misinterpreted and misquoted, but he makes himself easy prey with his excentric style…….let somebody else…eg Dick Muir do he talking at least untill the dust settles.

    Now before I get slammed again….PdV shouldn’t have to change because he is different, but in the real world he will always be placed under a microscope….why haven’t SA Rugby appointed a media liason to handle these situations.

  • Comment 9, posted at 01.07.09 08:51:32 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Oh and before I forget, well written article Morne!!

    Thanks for keeping it short!! :twisted:

  • Comment 10, posted at 01.07.09 08:52:22 by wpw Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 5) :

    I think the players would rather have a coach who stands up for them (albeit in his own way)…than some spineless diplomat who succumbs to every bit of baseless pressure from the Pommies.

    It’s funny how we assume all these things for the players and yet the players come out in support for the coach.

  • Comment 11, posted at 01.07.09 08:54:01 by blackshark Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 8) : @Morné (Comment 7) : I stated my opinion and frankly I don’t have the time today to get into this conversation again. I just think the whole situation is not being managed right. I love rugby I’m passionate about rugby and very proud that we have won the series and I hoping for a whitewash. I don’t really care to much about the british media or the SA media for that matter. I care about the Boks and I’m afraid that all this off field shit will start affecting the Boks on the field.

  • Comment 12, posted at 01.07.09 08:56:07 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Great stuff, the arti and the movie. Looks like Kanko might get a start this weekend

  • Comment 13, posted at 01.07.09 08:57:59 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 9) :

    I will save you the trouble. The transcript is SW friendly imo, have a read and enjoy.

    Q: Eye gouging is on the increase throughout the rugby world, what is your view on it?

    PDV: I’m against anything that is not in the spirit of the game. Anything! We won’t go to the lows of not being negative in such a positive game we have. We’ve got brilliant players in this country, they are world class – most of them. To try and even compare them to little small things that belong outside in the bushveld…(pause for thought). If we want to go eye-gouge any lion, we go out to the bushveld like we normally do, eye-gouge them and see if we can outrun them or see if they haul us in. We will never NEVER encourage anybody to be part of negative play or bring the game into respute. Schalk’s nature and character, if you know the man as I know him, is that he won’t ever (eye-gouge). He’s too physical, I think he’s more physical than any other rugby player in the world! To go to those kind of measures to show he’s the boss on the rugby field… he will never ever do it. And I don’t think he did it. Eye-gouging, biting, head-butting and high-tackling is something we as a team, especially me, will not stand for. We want to promote this game amongst our youth and amongst everybody to see how passionate we are about this game. We want to bring that passion above anything else in our country. We want this game to be the biggest national-building tool that we ever can be. But by encouraging stuff like that (foul play), we are fighting a lost cause. And if that happens, then I shouldn’t even be here. I will never ever be part of doing anything like that.

    Q: Do you think longer bans on foul play will discourage players and coaches from implementing these acts?

    PDV: I’m part of this lovely game and I’m very honoured to be part of this lovely game. And there are some things I will enhance whilst I am part of this lovely game. Negativity is not one them. I don’t make the laws, I don’t write the books about sentences, I only abide by them. I don’t appoint judicial officers, and I don’t always agree with them. But again, I’m part of the system, and if you can’t work within the system,and you want to have your own system – then you creating your own world. There are a lot of things that I don’t like in life, but as long as I am part of this world, I have to adjust to make it work.

    (Four journalists throw in questions at the same time)

    PDV: You can’t ask questions at once. One at a time! I mean like…

    (Silence)

    Q: You don’t think Schalk did it? Have you not watched the television footage?

    PDV: I’m telling you, I watched the TV footage and I’m not saying anything otherwise I will go against everything we decided as a team. I watched the TV footage and I am still convinced there was nothing that he did on purpose. For Schalk himself when he watched it, he was like (imitating Burger): ‘Oh my!’. But he never meant to go to anybody’s eye. And I will stand by what I said, we will wait until we got the report and then we can make a great report back to you guys.

    Q: If you don’t think he did it, then how come his fingers made contact with Luke Fitzgerald’s eye?

    PDV: Some of us have got a hearing problem! I said, that we stand us a group with what the team said. We are waiting for the report. And if the report BY ANY MEANS comes out and says “Schalk Burger is guilty of eye-gouging”, then we just have to abide by that. But I believe it won’t be the case and we stand by that.

    Q: What do you think he’s banned for eight weeks for then Peter?

    PDV: We …are …waiting… for… the… report! And then, I can answer your question. I can’t give you any answer without the report.

    Q (same journalist): It sounds to me like you are ducking the issue?

    PDV: I’m not ducking the issue. It’s just the I’m working within the system. I’m not like you (the media), who have no systems! You can word whatever you want to word. We are working in a system where we wait until the report has been tabled… then we will react.

    Q: Did you not have any representatives at the hearing to report back to you following Burger’s disciplinary?

    PDV: We are waiting for the report to be tabled so that we can disect the whole thing. We will then come back to you with an INformed answer, and then we won’t MISunderstand each other again.

    (At this time the South African media manager tries to calm down the situation by saying he will be sending out a response from the Bok management following their ‘report’)

    Q: You said after the game that the incident did not deserve a yellow card. Do you now in hindsight regret saying that and believe it was worth a card?

    PDV: Let me tell you something. Look at the footage properly. When you know the man you working with properly… then you can see why he is innocent.

    Q: Have you spoken to Schalk since then?

    PDV: Come again?

    Q: Have you spoken to Schalk since then?

    PDV (with a smile and chuckling): Yes, definitely. We not cross with each other. We sat down at breakfast this morning too. We sat down last night until quarter past twelve waiting for them (the judiciary officers) to finish up inside. So ja, I spoke to him and as I expected, he is an honourable man. If you take him away from rugby, he will be the best person to have around you.

    Q: So Burger denied any wrong doing?

    PDV (long pause): I didn’t ask him if he denies he was wrong. I sat down, and I spoke to him… that’s what you asked me.

    Q: When you look at the report, is there any chance you will appeal?

    PDV: Again, I think we should just wait for the report to see what the wording is in there and then as a team – whatever decision we make – we’ll go all the way in clearing (stutters his words) his… his… his name. For us it will be the best thing to do.

    Q: You say that Schalk is an honourable man and there is obviously a lot of emotion involved. Do you think that will win you the appeal?

    PDV: What we must understand here very clearly is that rugby is a contact sport. And so is dancing. So guys (players and media) who can’t take it, must make the decision of their own. If you guys (the media) really sat through that entire game, you’ll find there were so many incidents (from the Lions players) that we could have gone and said: “We want to cite this guy for maliciously jumping into a guy’s face with his shoulder,” and stuff like that. Why didn’t we do it? The reason why we don’t to stuff like that, is because this game will always be a game to us and sometimes you get away with things that you don’t even mean. Sometimes you make decisions that are either right and wrong , and get away with it. We are so proud and honoured to be a part of it. If we are going to win games in boardrooms and in front of television cameras like this, then we should say to ourselves: “Do we really respect this game that we honour so much… and the passion for it? Do we want to be part of it?”. If you are going to complain about every incident we might as well go to a ballet shop and all get tutus and get a great dancing show on for all to see that has no eye-gouging, no tackling, no nothing and we can all in enjoy it! But this game will have collisions, and the guy who wins that collision the hardest, that’s the guy we will always select. And if we are going to make it soft, because we won a Test series and people don’t like it… I can’t do anything about it.

    Q: Peter, are you upset that the whole Burger incident has overshadowed what has been a historic series win over the Lions?

    PDV: That is exactly how I feel. You know what, 29 years we’ve waited for this grrrreat occasion. 29 years! And we are going into the third Test with the series sealed. We are the winners of the British and Irish Lions series, and we are happy about it. This country can now rejoice and be positive for the next twelve years. So I would love the Lions supporters to honour the fact that we won this thing. It was tough and the hardest Test series I have seen in a long time. We came back from a a poor start and I never thought we would be able to do that, because this is a brilliant Lions team that we are up against. We are so… (at this point, De Villiers is interrupted by the same journalist that earlier asked if he was ‘ducking’ the questions)

    PDV: Hey, don’t be so rude!

    Journalist: Sorry, I wouldn’t dream of it.

    PDV: Good. (Continues) What I would love for Lions supporters is to just stand up and take it on the chin and say: “Well done South Africa! Well done for what you’ve achieved in this series.” Just like we did in 1997.

    Q: Has Lions coach Ian McGeechan congratulated you in person?

    PDV: Well, nobody has really congratulated us up until now. But maybe they will do so after the third Test.

    Q: Peter, congratulations on winning the series…

    PDV: Thank you my man, you are the first one!

    Q: Now that you’ve got the series in the bag, how are you going to approach the third Test?

    PDV: We going to look at this Test, the same we have looked at all the others. We respect the Lions and they are still a good side. To bring the best of Europe over here is not a walk in the park. But remember, we are proud people too. We not going on to the field just receive payment, we take the field with pride. There’s a lot of people in wheelchairs that can’t play the game like we do., so we play the game for them. So we still have an obligation for our country and towards ourselves. So won’t go out there on Saturday just to give it away. It will be great if we can make it 3-0. But then again, we don’t have any control over winning and losing. But we can control how we want to play the game.

    Q: There have been reports in the South African media that say you are the weak link in the Springbok team. How do you feel about that?

    PDV: I’m not disappointed with them (the media). Everybody in life has an opinion. I don’t react to opinions, I react on fact. If people think I am the weakest link, then we are blady strong! I didn’t know about the perception, and I do not even have time to think about it. I know myself that I am a God-given talent. I am the best ever that I can be, so whatever you think about me doesn’t bother me. I know what I am, and I don’t give a damn.

  • Comment 14, posted at 01.07.09 09:00:27 by Morné Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 13) : Where did you hear about Kanko? Does this mean Spies will move to 7 ?

  • Comment 15, posted at 01.07.09 09:01:23 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 14) : Thanks Morne. A good read and definately not as bad as it was made out to be….at least I can admit to my ignorance…….but somehow this needs to be managed and even though he doesn’t say much wrong he should be protected …at least for a while…from the media….because it’s not gonna get any better come the tri nations

  • Comment 16, posted at 01.07.09 09:13:42 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 16) :

    I am disgusted in SARU not backing him up – but then that is nothing new from them is it?

  • Comment 17, posted at 01.07.09 09:16:11 by Morné Reply
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  • Brilliant as always Morras

  • Comment 18, posted at 01.07.09 09:20:10 by Claytie Reply
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  • Can’t comment on the movie, but can say this is an excellent article.

  • Comment 19, posted at 01.07.09 09:22:22 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 15) : according to JJ Harmse Spies got a knock and didnt practice with the Boks, so its only a possibility.

  • Comment 20, posted at 01.07.09 09:23:07 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 17) :

    Mallet?
    White?
    PdV?

    All coaches who are busy WINNING games but are/were being mailed by SARU for stupid crap, while still actually in their employ. :???:

    No matter who is at the SARU helm, they always seem to cock it up somehow. :???:

  • Comment 21, posted at 01.07.09 09:27:26 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 19) : :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 22, posted at 01.07.09 09:30:02 by wpw Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 21) :

    Not Mallet so much

  • Comment 23, posted at 01.07.09 09:30:15 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • Being someone that likes to be entertained, I feel that I have been royaly entertained by the Boks and the Lions in this series so far, its just the provincial games, thanks to SARU that havent come to the party. The tests have been amazing. Off the field I havent been dissappointed either thanks to Div, the press and bloggers alike. The best part is that the later will continue to entertain for a while to come.
    Kyk Noord, lag voort.

  • Comment 24, posted at 01.07.09 09:32:12 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 24) : Lag jy vir my of saam met my :roll: :grin:

  • Comment 25, posted at 01.07.09 09:39:08 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I come and read the articles frequently on this site and dont often comment. But I must say thank you for the first fair article I have read concerning PDV! The man has been given nothing but bad press since his selection, and absolutely no one seems to be judging him on the results he produces. If you speak to any of the guys he has coached in the past, you will hear nothing but good things about his leadership style and rugby knowledge. We can only assume that he has been given such a hard time because of being thought of as a ‘quota’ coach, ensuring a microscopic view of his every word and action. The man did exceptionally well with the baby boks (many of whom then played under Jake White who was given the credit for their performances)and is now doing the same with the senior side. Its time for people to now appreciate what he has achieved, and support him into the future. It is not the bad press that will affect what is going on on the field, but the attitudes of supporters toward the team and the man at the head of it. The media will no longer provide scathing reports if it is not what the people want to read.

  • Comment 26, posted at 01.07.09 09:43:53 by wpforlife Reply

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  • The unabridged media conference shows a lot of what is going on, and what is going on behind the scenes.

    The way the contact sport bit about rugby and dancing and tutu’s came out in the press was totally bastardised and written to make PDV look stupid.

    While everyone judges him on his words (not deeds), the rugby media are crucifying him.

    Now that is very wrong.

  • Comment 27, posted at 01.07.09 09:45:00 by Baldrick Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 25) :
    Altyd saam.
    Man I wish it would warm up now, the bush is calling and I have a few lion eyebrows that I have to pluck.

  • Comment 28, posted at 01.07.09 09:46:03 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @wpforlife (Comment 26) :

    Welcome, I should write more it seems to get the numbers up here and people out of holes! :)

    I am pleased you and others enjoyed it, I seem to be more coherent when I am passionate about something!

  • Comment 29, posted at 01.07.09 09:48:42 by Morné Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 27) : True and the worst part is that the SA media is just as bad as the Brits

  • Comment 30, posted at 01.07.09 09:49:31 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 30) :

    I can share some horror stories with you on what happens behind the scenes with these media okes

  • Comment 31, posted at 01.07.09 09:54:18 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 31) :

    pak uit!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 32, posted at 01.07.09 10:00:35 by wpw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 31) : Make it so :wink:

  • Comment 33, posted at 01.07.09 10:04:50 by Claytie Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 31) : @wpw (Comment 32) : Ja, something on that idot Gavin Rich ? :evil:

  • Comment 34, posted at 01.07.09 10:14:24 by Charlie Reply

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  • @Charlie (Comment 34) : Hy bly mos fout vind met my ? :roll:

  • Comment 35, posted at 01.07.09 10:15:09 by Charlie Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 32) : @Claytie (Comment 33) : @Charlie (Comment 34) :

    I have been fortunate enough to experience rugby at many levels.

    Playing, coaching, development, administration and now even reporting on it.

    The thing that was very clear to me always is that rugby, at any level and in every area of the game, is basically run by a mob. Meaning that just about everywhere you are either part of a mob, forced to toe-the-line or you are worked out of the system.

    It might sound bad and make no mistake I met some amazing individuals through this game in my life many if not most who have become life-long friends and people that taught me a hell of a lot about the game.

    However, coming back to reporting on the game which is the topic here I can tell you that just about every single reporter is either forced to, or choose to report in a manner which suits an agenda. It is as much an old-boys club as you could wish to see.

    Now again, it does not mean you get good ones, you do, there are some excellent journalists out there that removes emotions and agendas from their reporting and aspire to ethical values that one would expect from professionals in the field.

    But for the most part, I have never seen so many egotistical bunch of half wits in one room as I have seen in press conferences.

    The main problem is they want to argue or question based more on emotion and perception than on actual fact.

    In a Stormers presser an old gentleman had a go at Rassie about the tight 5 of the team and their scrum. Rassie gave his opinion which to me made perfect sense. This guy however would not let go which at one point Rassie said something to the effect of;

    “Listen you have your opinion which is fine, and you have obviously already made up your mind about it. I gave my view on this and the only difference is mine is backed up by facts and yours is based on perceptions.”

    What you also find, and here I would bring in a journalist from our favourite site, Voldy, into the picture.

    I have never seen Ryan Vrede ask one question in a presser when he attended one. Yet when you read articles penned by him they are hugely opinionated. But none of what he writes was as a result of challenging or asking the coach his opinions on matters he is actually concerned about. He picks up bits and pieces of the presser which others initiate and control and then goes on to openly, and directly criticise or give opinions on an individual in the vein of Deborah Patter from 3rd Degree!

    This sort of makes me laugh when I read yesterday that one reporter said that PDV never answers a direct rugby question with a direct rugby answer! Hell if only they ask direct rugby questions that might be a start!

    Effectively you have to remember that these guys are employed by someone, almost every one of these organisations that employ them, have certain interests in other ventures, businesses or individuals, articles and opinions are also, therefore penned with the view to promote one agenda or item, and discourage the next, whether it is stating evidence factually or not. More often than not the problem comes in where facts are not reported holistically, but rather contextually [sic] where it is easy to take things out of context and base an opinion out of that which readers, will lap up.

    They are not lying of course, this is how they protect themselves, the individual did say that, but they fail deliberately to put it in the full context of how and why it was said, as the above transcript proves.

    However, with the internet we as the normal okes now have a window where we can research opinions, get full transcripts and read conflicting reports from different reporters before we make opinions, and that is what I learned very quickly. Get as much information as possible before you are happy to put your name, and reputation behind any opinion, story or so-called fact.

    I am not a professional journalist, nor do I want to be, but I always try and tell guys to stop for a second, look at things from all angles and perspectives, before we pass judgment. IN rugby it is more difficult because we are very emotional when it comes to the subject, but it is necessary if you do not want to simply be a sheep lapping up everything you read, and its those sheep on other sites (you know which one) that really gets me where I can only shake my head.

    Like I said, I have been privileged to have been involved in all this and I do not expect everyone to think like I do, how bloody boring and egotistical would that be?!? But I will continue to piss people off with my opinions because of it I believe!

  • Comment 36, posted at 01.07.09 10:32:52 by Morné Reply
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  • 2 Things

    1:In a Stormers presser an old gentleman had a go at Rassie about the tight 5 of the team and their scrum. Rassie gave his opinion which to me made perfect sense. This guy however would not let go which at one point Rassie said something to the effect of;

    “Listen you have your opinion which is fine, and you have obviously already made up your mind about it. I gave my view on this and the only difference is mine is backed up by facts and yours is based on perceptions.”

    I think i was there for this, or saw one or 2 very similar incidents.

    2) have never seen Ryan Vrede ask one question in a presser when he attended one..

    Dude i thought i was the only one taking note of that, I used to look who was asking the questions and it ws always the same lot, Ashfak, Dobson etc, but you always see comments in the thread about how the coach spoke to keo.co.za at the presser.Total BS.

  • Comment 37, posted at 01.07.09 10:43:55 by Claytie Reply
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  • @Claytie (Comment 37) :

    I think it was the evening when we klapped those brandy’s and cokes in record time, so you could well have been there! ;)

  • Comment 38, posted at 01.07.09 10:55:00 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 38) : Thats the one I was thinking about :razz:

  • Comment 39, posted at 01.07.09 10:56:26 by Claytie Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 36) : Can anybody tell me where the expression ‘Voldy’ comes from?

  • Comment 40, posted at 01.07.09 10:57:16 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Can anybody tell me where the term ‘ Voldy’ came from

  • Comment 41, posted at 01.07.09 10:58:06 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 40) :

    Dunno who coined it and exactly why, but I picked up on it.

    I believe it refers to something like Voldermot [sic] or something out of Lord of the Rings and the Hobbits. Keo is a bit of a hobbit himself.

  • Comment 42, posted at 01.07.09 11:03:00 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 42) : it was me :-)

  • Comment 43, posted at 01.07.09 11:03:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 43) :

    Ahh well there you go!

    Was I right as to why it came about?

  • Comment 44, posted at 01.07.09 11:05:56 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 42) : Harry Potter

  • Comment 45, posted at 01.07.09 11:09:03 by Claytie Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 44) : it started in the other place. Keo’s name was not to be mentioned, just like Voldemort in Harry Potter. Keo is pretty little, hence the diminutive form, Voldy

  • Comment 46, posted at 01.07.09 11:11:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • Haha, a packed room of 50 journos but the person told keo.co.za only.

    Haha, the egos of these guys :-)

  • Comment 47, posted at 01.07.09 11:14:09 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 36) : i appreciate your comments and opinions, cause more often than not it actually makes sense to me and than im able to see things diffirently, well done mate, keep it up

  • Comment 48, posted at 01.07.09 11:18:37 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 46) : Rob, you celebrating already :mrgreen:

  • Comment 49, posted at 01.07.09 11:22:25 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baldrick (Comment 47) : Exclusively, in the loo :roll:

  • Comment 50, posted at 01.07.09 11:23:12 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JarsonX (Comment 48) : he is the best!

  • Comment 51, posted at 01.07.09 11:23:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 48) :

    @robdylan (Comment 51) :

    Amen!

  • Comment 52, posted at 01.07.09 11:26:23 by blackshark Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • I must say, reading the transcripts of the press conference puts a lot of things in perspective… those guys were really badgering PDV about the Schalk Burger issue! I don’t know why he didn’t cut them off and simply refuse to answer any further questions on the issue? As we’ve mentioned before, I can’t help feeling that the media liason course they offered him would be well worth his time?

  • Comment 53, posted at 01.07.09 11:33:10 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • @CS (Comment 53) : it shouldnt be offered it should be compulsary

  • Comment 54, posted at 01.07.09 11:34:47 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Claytie (Comment 45) :

    Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings…

    Same thing ;)

    @Baldrick (Comment 47) :

    You have no idea, Claytie is spot on.

    @JarsonX (Comment 48) :

    Thanks man, you will struggle to get rid of me anycase!

    @robdylan (Comment 51) :

    Thanks dude. Little do you realise that it is the commentators that make you (me) what we are.

    Just about 99% of the topics I write about comes about from having conversations or debates with people about it, or picking up on concerns and topics in conversations I am not even part of, then thinking hey, there might be a great story in that!

  • Comment 55, posted at 01.07.09 11:36:02 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 51) : @blackshark (Comment 52) :

    Pity his articles are so long.

    Some of us slow chaps take forever to read it!!! :roll:

  • Comment 56, posted at 01.07.09 11:48:45 by wpw Reply
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  • I don’t know about you guys… but I can’t wait for the team announcement tomorrow and then the game on Saturday :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    The Lions have beeen decimated with injuries, whilst the changes we’ll make (if any?) will arguable only lead to strengthen our team… whether we play Kirschner or Steyn, Fourie or Jacobs, Steyn or Pienaar, Kanko or Spies, Brussouw or Potgieter I don’t think there’s going to be much in it other than personal preferences… none of these players in any combination are going to let the team down, so I think the Lions are in for a hiding this weekend :lol:

  • Comment 57, posted at 01.07.09 11:49:31 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • arguable = arguably

  • Comment 58, posted at 01.07.09 11:50:11 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • As always Morne your articles are fantastic!

    Iv choosen to ignore all media after this, once I got a sniff of what was being scribed in the British Press.

    And this is ‘my’ FACT :

    Get the Poms,Irish and Welsh together and they will winge..its in their blood.
    Hell just go back to 2005 the entire tour was marred by the BOD I could have died incident.

    Born and bred to be bad losers regardless..if it wasn’t Burger or PDV it would have been something else.

    What I picked up after the 2 tests lisening to the average supporter is that they would much rather skin PDV alive than actually praise him for the results (which is waht I thought was the sole objevtive of any coach to WIN!

    Hell after Sat game some punters went on and on about Jacobs and other selections..please get over yourselves dammit.
    Personaly Jacobs was the only centre to have broken the line he had a much better game than Jean.Yea Im going off topic but as you mention Morne its the moaning that dilutes the success.

    I for one chose to be conscience of our success and thats it.

    PS: I don’t give a flying $%£^ what the international press say about our team and coach ..tell me has it been any diff over the years in any case.

    rant over

    :mrgreen:

  • Comment 59, posted at 01.07.09 11:51:42 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Charlie (Comment 49) : huh?

  • Comment 60, posted at 01.07.09 12:01:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • Everywhere you turn these BIL’s are whinging, whinging, whinging. I really hope we thrash them on Saturday!!!!

    “Ireland captain Brian O’Driscoll strongly criticised Springbok coach Peter de Villiers on Wednesday for implying eye gouging was part of the game, calling his comments “semi-repulsive”.

    O’Driscoll, ruled out of the Lions tour after being injured in last Saturday’s second Test, said the Springboks’ Schalk Burger should had been red-carded for eye-gouging Lions winger Luke Fitzgerald.

    “I am semi-appalled that a player that clearly gouged another player was simply given a yellow card and subsequently given an eight-week ban, which I find mind-boggling,” O’Driscoll told RTE, Irish state radio.

    “It was one thing being semi-baffled by what the referee decided upon … but to hear the South African coach Peter de Villiers talk about gouging being part of the game was semi-repulsive.

    “I can’t be adamant enough about that.”

    Burger was yellow carded but De Villiers refused to condemn his actions, saying: “I don’t believe it was a card at all … this is sport, this is what it’s about.”

    De Villiers and South African Rugby Union president Oregan Hoskins subsequently issued a joint statement condemning all acts of foul play.

    O’Driscoll said that irrespective of any apologies from de Villiers, his comments were “essentially bringing the game into disrepute”.

    “We are trying to promote the game and yet you hear comments like that. I just find it appalling. I truly find it a disgrace,” he said.

    “If it (gouging) is not clamped down on, you are going to lose people to the game of rugby and that’s essentially the bigger picture. It’s a bad day for us.”"

    WHINGERS!!!

  • Comment 61, posted at 01.07.09 12:02:19 by CS Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : Hi think he’s referring to your avatar.

  • Comment 62, posted at 01.07.09 12:03:43 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • Normally I never finish articles of more than 3 paragraphs! Brilliantly written – a must read.

    PdV is no bull, say it like it is oke. I have more and more respect for the man every game. GO PdV!!!!

  • Comment 63, posted at 01.07.09 12:05:51 by Rahul Reply

    RahulCurrie Cup player
     
  • Well BOD atleast you didn’t die .. be greatful for that.

  • Comment 64, posted at 01.07.09 12:05:57 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 64) : :mrgreen: :lol: I remember an interview with Tana about that incident.Tana pretty much called BOD a sissy girl, he doesn’t stand for that ponsy stuff, even crapping on his own players if they make a meal about stuff.

  • Comment 65, posted at 01.07.09 12:10:38 by Claytie Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 27) : Very wrong but pretty standard fare for journo’s

  • Comment 66, posted at 01.07.09 12:12:53 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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    Worcestershire SauceCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Claytie (Comment 65) :

    I also can’t remember ever hearing a Bok player complain/moan about foul play.

    I reckon the Boks enjoy the physical stuff!!! :cool:

  • Comment 67, posted at 01.07.09 12:19:53 by wpw Reply
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  • One last comment about these whingers: don’t you think it’s interesting that BOD has chosen to go home already, with the last test match only a few days away, and as one of the senior players, one would have thought he would stick around to add his value to the team even if just in a supportive role. Obviously the team moral isn’t what we think it is?

  • Comment 68, posted at 01.07.09 12:30:22 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 67) : Ja, they sort themselves out on the field, not off the field standing behind their moms.

  • Comment 69, posted at 01.07.09 12:31:24 by Rahul Reply

    RahulCurrie Cup player
     
  • @CS (Comment 68) :

    Thats a good and fair point , Lord Drisdroll had even come out with fighting talk before hand saying he would not be part of a losing Lions series.

    He has gone home to chuck he’s transformers around the bedroom and cry himself to sleep.
    Im just grateful that he’ll never be playing in SA again.

  • Comment 70, posted at 01.07.09 12:34:43 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 66) : But it is everywhere. Despite the fact that there are 500 journos at every press conference, everyone seems to find time to speak to only KEO’s lot.

    You’d think they’d see what pratts they make of themselves.

    I might as well say “Nelson Mandela told me XYZ” when he was in fact talking to the nation on TV.

    Come on you Harry Potter wannabees. You’re the laughing stock!

  • Comment 71, posted at 01.07.09 12:59:08 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @CS (Comment 68) : I read somewhere that the guys don’t sharre rooms, it was a comment made by Willie John McBride or one of the other Lions legends.

    I had heard that McGeechen wanted to grow the spirit in the squad, but if they had individual rooms, that’s not going to grow a dagga leaf in sea sand!

  • Comment 72, posted at 01.07.09 13:00:49 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • Come on chaps, we South Africans whinge as much and even more than the next man. If its not about the ref its about a high tackle that was unpunished or about the linesman that pointed Schalk, the ange,l out unfairly, thge list goes on and on. Fact is no one likes losing and with that comes excuses why they lost and its always easier to blame someone else for that loss than your teams shortcommings. Hell we even win and we spend our time whinging – about the coach, his selections, SARU, ticket prices and on and on.

    My opinion – Schalk should have got red, we should have played the test with 14 men. Anyone that condones what Schalk did or is willing to turn a blind eye to it (no pun intended)is a denialist and a danger to any sane rugby playing person.

  • Comment 73, posted at 01.07.09 13:10:26 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 73) : we’re still bitching about Honiss allowing the Irish “try” back in 2005, for goodness sake!

  • Comment 74, posted at 01.07.09 13:14:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • I can remember a fair amount of whinging after a certain Super 14 final, hell I was one of them, ditto the New Zealanders after every dramatic exit during a REAL world cup competition.

    We, Saffas, take it to another level though, we just let loose Piet van Zyls to assault the ref, mind blowing.

  • Comment 75, posted at 01.07.09 13:22:30 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 75) : I still #$%&* whinge about that final, Habana, the ref, the linesman, habana, cheats……

  • Comment 76, posted at 01.07.09 14:03:15 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Baldrick (Comment 76) :
    That is truely one game that needs to be whinged about ad infintum, the unfairness of it all. Whinging, regarding this game, can only be seen as constructive criticism.

  • Comment 77, posted at 01.07.09 14:12:55 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 77) : Now if only the Bulls supporters would see the merit in that!

  • Comment 78, posted at 01.07.09 14:15:30 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • I don’t think the whinging is really pissing people off that much, whinge as much as you like, but also admit and recognise the the Boks won the series.

  • Comment 79, posted at 01.07.09 14:25:18 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 79) :
    Absolutely, not giving that acknowledgement is really poor form.
    Johan Muller is one that always acknowledges the winning team when the Sharks have lost.

  • Comment 80, posted at 01.07.09 15:04:21 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 80) : it’s because he’s a TOP bloke!

  • Comment 81, posted at 01.07.09 15:20:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 14) : I’m sorry but what am I missing here Morras? You’ve put the entire transcript up and it hasn’t changed my opinion in the slightest. He’s speaking like a brat and being incredibly aggressive. Sure the media were a little on the antagonising side but he’s a national coach ffs.

    (at this point, De Villiers is interrupted by the same journalist that earlier asked if he was ‘ducking’ the questions)

    PDV: Hey, don’t be so rude!

    What is this?? u10′s training camp or something? Leaders who are put in front of the media like this are expected to rise above the line of questioning.

    To be honest, when Snor first made his appearances as Springbok coach my immediate impression was that he perhaps wasn’t enough of a “presence” for the position. He seemed, I dunno, introverted and meek. How awfully wrong I was. My opinion of him has changed to one of him being an arrogant, self-absorbed idiot.

    I heard this snippet on the radio yesterday:

    If you are going to complain about every incident we might as well go to a ballet shop and all get tutus and get a great dancing show on for all to see that has no eye-gouging, no tackling, no nothing and we can all in enjoy it! But this game will have collisions, and the guy who wins that collision the hardest, that’s the guy we will always select

    His tone was condescending like he was talking to nursery schoolers. The man needs to start showing some fucking professionalism.

  • Comment 82, posted at 01.07.09 15:37:09 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 82) : and maybe the journos could drop the personal agndas and start acting like grownups as well?

  • Comment 83, posted at 01.07.09 15:39:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 80) :

    I reckon he must have perfected the art by now… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 84, posted at 01.07.09 15:42:03 by wpw Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 82) :

    Bru, I saw bit of the interview and the journos were out of line and showed a lack of respect.

  • Comment 85, posted at 01.07.09 15:43:41 by wpw Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 82) : Further, the journo was completely within his right to badger Snor about Schalk. Some people would have thought red was the right call. To come out and say, “And if the report BY ANY MEANS comes out and say “Schalk Burger is guilty of eye-gouging”, then we just have to abide by that. But I believe it won’t be the case and we stand by that” is just completely idiotic. WHAT GAME WAS HE WATCHING??

  • Comment 86, posted at 01.07.09 15:45:24 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : Maybe. But they’re not representing a country are they?

  • Comment 87, posted at 01.07.09 15:45:58 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 82) :

    He was interrupted, after answering the same question what, 5 times?

    I would be bloody rude too.

    And how is his tone condescending?

    The media wanted to make a massive thing out of one incident, he gave his and his team’s stance on it, and on anything similar where they will not run to the citing commissioner for every little thing that happens in a game that is full of aggression and collisions.

    I fail to see any form of him being condescending!

    Fact is, rugby is a contact sport, in a contact sport things will happen. Arms will slide up from tackles around the chest to the neck and face area – that is the reality of a contact sport, to run to the citing commissioner for every one of these things is a bit silly, then I agree you might just want to take up dancing.

    This wrestling crap you see on TV is there just for entertainment purposes, it is not even a sport but that too is full contact, that comes with risk, and people have died doing this.

    But as I mentioned, if you cannot look at that full transcript and then read the articles that followed and realise they are as similar as night and day, then there is really no point debating any issues in the transcript, or any subsequent article in the first place because we are debating from very different bases.

  • Comment 88, posted at 01.07.09 15:47:55 by Morné Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 87) : you have a pretty warped view of the world.

    In your mind, it’s completely acceptable to have two parties engaging in a discussion with completely different standards of acceptable behaviour applying to each party?

  • Comment 89, posted at 01.07.09 15:48:18 by robdylan Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 86) :

    He is not condoning the incident on the principle of what has happened! He is defending it on the principle of Schalk the person he knows and coaches!

    Hell is it that hard to see?

  • Comment 90, posted at 01.07.09 15:50:37 by Morné Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 85) : The question

    You don’t think Schalk did it? Have you not watched the television footage?

    appears to be what set him off. Admittedly there’s more than a dash of sarcasm there but it’s fully deserved considering what Snor said just before that. When they saw he was getting aggressive with them at the point, that’s when they started baiting him. He was just too immature to recognise it.

  • Comment 91, posted at 01.07.09 15:50:45 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 87) :

    They form the views and opinions of millions!

    Who carries more responsibility?

  • Comment 92, posted at 01.07.09 15:51:32 by Morné Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 91) :

    Hey I can bait just about anyone to a breaking point, I am good at it.

    Firstly it does not make it right and secondly I have a specific agenda if I am doing this, to get the other guy to lose it completely.

    PDV never deviated from their stance on the issue, that they NEVER support any type of foul play (as stated how many times in this transcript?) and they support Schalk the person.

    Just what are you reading?

  • Comment 93, posted at 01.07.09 15:54:13 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 88) : the guys that die in wrestling generally die as a result of steroids…

  • Comment 94, posted at 01.07.09 15:56:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 90) : Personalities count for bugger all when it comes to offences in any legal system worth its salt. Yes, according to what he knows of Schalk’s personality as an all round person it was out of character. None of us would dispute that here I imagine. But committing an illegal act “out of character” does not in ANY way modify the illegality of the act. What he should have said was, “Yes, he certainly eye-gouged the guy but I would like you to know that it was certainly a one-off incident and it is not something that is indicative of any malicious streak in Schalk’s character.”

  • Comment 95, posted at 01.07.09 15:58:43 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 94) :

    :) Nah I was actually referring to one oke recently who fell down something and broke his neck or something and died.

  • Comment 96, posted at 01.07.09 15:59:20 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 89) : That’s life bru. I have experienced different standards of acceptable behaviour on this very site. What I don’t profess, however, is to represent the hopes and attitudes of other people. Neither do the media. Div does.

  • Comment 97, posted at 01.07.09 16:01:26 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 90) : No, no. What he was inferring was that Schalk would NEVER do such a thing because it is not in his nature, therefore it’s impossible that he did do it. He’s using Schalk’s character to deny the hard evidence. Ludicrous.

  • Comment 98, posted at 01.07.09 16:03:02 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 95) :

    Did you hear him ever condone the act?

    Or did you hear him doing exactly what you just said there, that it is out of Schalk’s character?

    We can play around with words all day.

    What is the message from that transcript?

    a) We do not condone foul play

    b) He spoke to Schalk, even he was shocked when he saw the video

    c) They will abide by any ruling the citing commissioner makes, they did.

    d) This situation does not make Schalk a dirty player, in a contact sport things like this will happen from time to time, in no way would they ever tell or encourage players to do this intentionally, and they believe these was actually just one of those instances that you get in a contact sport.

  • Comment 99, posted at 01.07.09 16:03:03 by Morné Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 97) : Howzit Klempie. Fighting fit I see.

  • Comment 100, posted at 01.07.09 16:03:20 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 92) : Last I checked, people were responsible for forming their own opinions.

  • Comment 101, posted at 01.07.09 16:04:17 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 98) :

    Are you putting words in his mouth now by inferrences?

    Do you want to go and read the statement subsequent to this media conference where he states that his comment was based on that Schalk would never do this INTENTIONALLY?

  • Comment 102, posted at 01.07.09 16:05:00 by Morné Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 98) : Did you read the transcript at comment 14?

  • Comment 103, posted at 01.07.09 16:05:03 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 93) : What I’m reading is, “Schalk is a nice guy (true), therefore he couldn’t possibly have done it (idiocy).”

  • Comment 104, posted at 01.07.09 16:05:23 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 101) :

    Based on what?

    What they read not so?

  • Comment 105, posted at 01.07.09 16:06:44 by Morné Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 104) :

    What I’m reading is, “Schalk is a nice guy (true), therefore he couldn’t possibly have done it (idiocy).”

    Just change idiocy with INTENTIONALLY and we are on the same page.

  • Comment 106, posted at 01.07.09 16:07:34 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 94) : Rob why is it that every now and again when I refresh I only get the article and not the comments…..anybody else having this problem?

  • Comment 107, posted at 01.07.09 16:07:48 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 99) : But nowhere did he say “Yes, Schalk eye-gouged him.” That is the point.

  • Comment 108, posted at 01.07.09 16:08:18 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 108) :

    Yes probably because his hand ended up in they eye and face area by accident (THAT THEY ARE SAYING – not intentional) and that these things will sometimes happen in a contact sport (THAT THEY ARE ALSO SAYING).

  • Comment 109, posted at 01.07.09 16:11:05 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 106) : You had better define intentional pretty quick cos as far as I’m concerned an unintentional eye-gouging would be say when there’s a flying hand of fingers that connects with someone’s eye. Have a look at the video.

  • Comment 110, posted at 01.07.09 16:11:27 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 109) : HAAHAHAHAHAH!!! His finger was in the oke’s eye for a few seconds at least. And there was “downward pressure” I believe the rugby term is.

  • Comment 111, posted at 01.07.09 16:13:40 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • I am out now though.

    have a good one everybody!

  • Comment 112, posted at 01.07.09 16:13:57 by Morné Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 110) : @klempie (Comment 111) :

    I did view the video, plenty times, Schalk was not even looking at the player when it happened, and if you watch it in real time and not in super slomo then it might actually be much shorter when you view it.

    It seems the citing commission agrees with me, because for an offense of deliberate eye-gouging you can get suspended for up to 1 year, a European player last year got 6 months, Schalk got 8 weeks.

    Sort of gives it away doesn’t it?

  • Comment 113, posted at 01.07.09 16:16:17 by Morné Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 110) :

    Intentional?

    Define it very quickly for you before I go.

    Go see if you can pick up Gavin Hensons book where he explains how Brian O’Driscoll eye-gouged him and pulled him by the hair, looking straight into his face and asking him while he was one the ground ‘How he liked that?’

    Intentional…

  • Comment 114, posted at 01.07.09 16:18:20 by Morné Reply
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  • End of story, Schalk got what he deserved. Peter stands by the character which is Schalk Burger, but accepts the verdict – they did no appeal.

    And now he is the Devil in Prada.

    Go figure that logic.

  • Comment 115, posted at 01.07.09 16:20:07 by Morné Reply
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  • Okay must really go now – cheers!

  • Comment 116, posted at 01.07.09 16:20:27 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 113) : He’s got BOTH his hand’s over the dude’s face! If he’s got no basic awareness of the position of his extremities wth is he doing playing international rugby?

  • Comment 117, posted at 01.07.09 16:22:21 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • Phew. That was epic. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 118, posted at 01.07.09 16:23:42 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • If Schalk would aplolgize it may really help the healing process of the whole affair on both sides.Perhaps he as a player and person should take responsibility and do so.

    Won’t make it go away but surely its the right thing to do.

  • Comment 119, posted at 01.07.09 16:25:06 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 96) : Owen Heart

  • Comment 120, posted at 01.07.09 16:29:14 by Claytie Reply
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  • @Claytie (Comment 120) : oh yeah… heard about that. Awful

  • Comment 121, posted at 01.07.09 16:34:45 by robdylan Reply
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  • :shock:
    Wow, Morne from the above it seems as if you also feel that Shalk was innocent, just because he wasnt looking at where his hands were. Vinny Jones was looking in the opposite direction when he was squeezing that guys nuts to a pulp, would that make it unintentional.

  • Comment 122, posted at 01.07.09 16:36:10 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 122) : hehehehehehe. My pardner is here! :cool:

  • Comment 123, posted at 01.07.09 16:37:58 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 122) :
    That guy being Gazza.
    Heres a link

    http://www.weirdpicturearchive.com/pics/vinniejones.php
    :twisted:

  • Comment 124, posted at 01.07.09 16:39:59 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 124) : wince

  • Comment 125, posted at 01.07.09 16:43:55 by klempie Reply

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  • Looks like the Hernandez deal was a lie

  • Comment 126, posted at 01.07.09 16:45:18 by Claytie Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 124) :

    Classic Vinnie , would have made one helluva Rugby player I reckon.

  • Comment 127, posted at 01.07.09 16:45:50 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 123) :
    You dont need pardners, you can give as good as you get.

    I enjoyed the exchange of views – it remained civil (other than Vinnys nuts) and didnt get personal.

  • Comment 128, posted at 01.07.09 16:46:32 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Claytie (Comment 126) :

    Lies and Filth ! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 129, posted at 01.07.09 16:47:07 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 128) : Fence sitter… :roll:

  • Comment 130, posted at 01.07.09 16:57:57 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 130) : :razz:

  • Comment 131, posted at 01.07.09 16:58:31 by klempie Reply

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  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 127) :
    I reckon he would have loved rugby.

  • Comment 132, posted at 01.07.09 16:59:49 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 130) :
    So here I am praising you and what do I get, abuse, sheeezzzzz

  • Comment 133, posted at 01.07.09 17:02:22 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 133) : lol

    How you doing china? It’s a kak long day on this side.

  • Comment 134, posted at 01.07.09 17:15:31 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 134) :
    Was a long day here which is fast coming to an end. So with that I say cheers to all.

  • Comment 135, posted at 01.07.09 17:26:32 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • More trouble for Div

    Johannesburg – Springbok coach Peter de Villiers’ credibility took another knock on Wednesday when the British and Irish Lions’ media officer Greg Thomas categorically denied that the touring side’s coach Ian McGeechan had not congratulated De Villiers after the second Test in Pretoria last Saturday.

    After previous inferences from the Springbok coach that McGeechan had not congratulated him – “he will probably do so after the third Test” – De Villiers on Tuesday very clearly said: “No” after a British journalist asked him whether McGeechan had congratulated him on the Boks’ victory.

    “Ian (McGeechan) twice congratulated the Springbok coach after the match,” Thomas said at a Lions press conference on Wednesday.

    The first time was when the two coaches had passed one another in the corridor, and the second time was while they were waiting outside the hall where the post-match media conferences were held.

    Other members of the Lions media team were present on the second occasion and mentioned by name by Thomas.

    This denial by De Villiers will do little to make Saturday’s eye-gouging incident involving Schalk Burger go away.

    De Villiers – already in trouble with the SA Rugby Union (SARU) for remarks made a week ago with a racial undertone; insisting that the eye-gouging incident was made too much of and saying that the Lions should take up ballet if they can’t take the knocks of a Test match and declaring himself as “God-given” – could find that the patience of SARU is wearing thin.

    The interference of the International Rugby Board on the eye-gouging incident for which SARU and De Villiers had to apologise, certainly didn’t endear him to his SARU bosses.

    De Villiers can also be assured that the touring media will not let up about his aggressive and arrogant manner in which he deals with the press.

    They have become very outspoken about the fact that they view his responses and actions as bringing the game into disrepute.

  • Comment 136, posted at 01.07.09 17:38:30 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 136) :

    I have learnt two things in my life, One of them many years ago and the other in more recent times.

    1) When a public figure uses the words categorically then they are usually talking KAK.

    2) When it is springbok Rugby season it seems to be open season on PdV by some Journo’s. :sad:

  • Comment 137, posted at 01.07.09 17:40:42 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 136) : Stirrer. :twisted:

  • Comment 138, posted at 01.07.09 17:43:47 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 136) : Hey how did the IRB get involved? :???:

  • Comment 139, posted at 01.07.09 17:45:26 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 138) :

    :lol:

    Who? ME?

    ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 140, posted at 01.07.09 17:51:28 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 139) :

    Not sure but maybe if he had to apologize it was because the IRB have taken a VERY firm stance on eye gouging recently and if the POMS twisted his words to say he didn’t think eye gouging was that bad then maybe they would have gotten involved.

  • Comment 141, posted at 01.07.09 17:54:05 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 140) : How you doing boet? You back in KSA? That reminds me. Got my pics downloaded from the game. I’ll mail them to you now.

  • Comment 142, posted at 01.07.09 17:54:25 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 140) : Can you access your work email from home?

  • Comment 143, posted at 01.07.09 17:55:21 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 141) : Hmmmm yeh.

  • Comment 144, posted at 01.07.09 17:55:42 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 142) :

    Nope, still in Dbn.
    Flying back on Monday at 14:00 from Jhb.

  • Comment 145, posted at 01.07.09 17:57:15 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @klempie (Comment 143) :

    Yip I can.

    Please start using [email protected] in the near future as my work emails will no longer be valid after 15 july.

  • Comment 146, posted at 01.07.09 17:59:08 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • I gotta be off, Kette wants the 3G modem. :sad: :razz:

  • Comment 147, posted at 01.07.09 18:00:07 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 146) : Should be there now.

  • Comment 148, posted at 01.07.09 18:00:36 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 95) :
    Your definition on intention is very flawed.

    As is the way you gauge it – if you want to hang somebody out to dry on some purportedly legal basis, make sure you are sure what you are talking about.

    Schalk deserved a ban – but that doesn’t mean that he purposefully tried to pop the player’s eye out.

  • Comment 149, posted at 01.07.09 18:53:36 by Big Fish Reply
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  • By the way Morne, great article.

    And I can also confirm the points about journos – what I read after attending a presser is never an accurate reflection, and Ryan Vrede is a ghost at these things.

  • Comment 150, posted at 01.07.09 18:56:34 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 118) :

    Haha dude, like I said how boring would it be if everyone agrees, the secret it to keep it civil!

    I just realised though.

    From what i read you believe Schalk did this intentionally?

    That changes the whole debate.

    Because I dont.

    If you reckon this was done intentionally and everyone is covering his ass, then that is a whole new debate.

    Personally, I choose to believe Schalk and the coach.

    It was unintentional from where I sit.

  • Comment 151, posted at 01.07.09 20:22:34 by Morné Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 122) :

    No, he was reckless but I will maintain my belief that it was unintentional.

    @Claytie (Comment 120) :

    You a fan of that stuff like my mom?

    @Salmonoid (Comment 128) :

    Read a great comment yesterday!

    Bekker should get cited and banned for sexually abusing Sheridan’s hand!

    @Big Fish (Comment 150) :

    Cheers dude.

  • Comment 152, posted at 01.07.09 20:25:20 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 151) : Perhaps we just need to agree that the definition of “intentional” is somewhat vague.

    in?ten?tion?al??/?n?t?n??nl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-ten-shuh-nl] Show IPA
    Use intentional in a Sentence
    –adjective 1. done with intention or on purpose; intended: an intentional insult.
    2. of or pertaining to intention or purpose.

    n·ten·tion·al (?n-t?n’sh?-n?l)
    adj. 1.Done deliberately; intended: an intentional slight. See Synonyms at voluntary.
    2.Having to do with intention.
    in·ten’tion·al·ly adv.

    When I look at the video, I can see Fitzgerald screaming and Schalk holding on. To my mind he’s not doing this involuntarily.

    But that’s besides the point. The issue is how Div carried himself as a professional. The disciplinary hearing found him guilty whether it was intentional or not. If Div’s objective was to convey Schalk the man and that the action was unintentional (which is what he clearly believes), all he had to say was “Yes, it’s an eye-gouge but Schalk is not typically a malicious player and I’m sure this is a once-off events. These things happen.” And that would have appeased any reasonable journo/fan/administrator. He basically came out and said “That’s not an eye-gouge. Man up.”

  • Comment 153, posted at 01.07.09 21:02:18 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 153) :

    Haha, going around in circles again.

    Like I said, we can wordplay all night.

    You either believe Schalk did this intentionally, or it was a case of something that happened because rugby is in fact, a contact sport an shit happens.

    Peter stood by his man thinking or believing the latter – I choose to believe Peter and Schalk.

    For all love and money this was a classic eye-gouge, but for all love or money I told many birds in the past I loved them and did not really mean that I wanted to marry them also.

    I guess it is what you choose to believe, and I believe Schalk overstepped the line, but he did not intend to do so intentionally.

    He got punished rightfully and in this game, you will be found guilty of illegal things whether it was intentional or not, because as P. Divvy said, this is afterall a contact sport.

    PDV stood by his man, which is honourable, the press believed he should have crucified him in public, and I relate to PDV more than I do to the press in this instance.

    I would trust a guy who has a relationship with an individual more, than what I would a dude who gives an opinion to sell advertising space (read journalists).

  • Comment 154, posted at 01.07.09 21:21:13 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 154) : I was ROFL at

    For all love and money this was a classic eye-gouge, but for all love or money I told many birds in the past I loved them and did not really mean that I wanted to marry them also.

    I couldn’t continue. :lol:

  • Comment 155, posted at 01.07.09 21:25:43 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 155) :

    Perfect!!! ;)

    Lets just leave it there then!!!

    And lets hope we nail these Pom bastards 3-0 and series whitewash for the first time in history!!!

  • Comment 156, posted at 01.07.09 21:43:42 by Morné Reply
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  • Now these bastards are calling PDV a liar for saying the Lions did not congratulate us.

    Now this really pisses me off.

    I read an interview where Gary Gold also confirmed that we were not congratulated.

    I’m sure PDV was refering to McGeechan not congratulating the team on their success.

    The longer this series continues the more my hatred for anything British grows!! :evil:

  • Comment 157, posted at 02.07.09 06:50:20 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 157) :

    “Ian (McGeechan) twice congratulated the Springbok coach after the match,” Thomas said at a Lions press conference on Wednesday.

    The first time was when the two coaches had passed one another in the corridor, and the second time was while they were waiting outside the hall where the post-match media conferences were held.

    Has anyone confirmed this with John Smit ?

  • Comment 158, posted at 02.07.09 08:54:07 by blackshark Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • @blackshark (Comment 158) : PdV naughty naughty again…..I hope this isn’t true…..just as Morne and the gang start convincing me that PdV is an angel….he goes out and lies to the media about the congratulations :roll:

  • Comment 159, posted at 02.07.09 09:02:13 by Pokkel Reply
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  • possible squad for the weekend:
    15. Kirchner
    14. O.Ndugane
    13. Fourie
    12. Olivier
    11. Nokwe
    10. M.Steyn
    9. Du Preez
    8. Kankowski
    7. Smith
    6. Brussow
    5. Matfield
    4. Muller
    3. Smit
    2. Ralapele
    1. Mtawarira

  • Comment 160, posted at 02.07.09 09:07:46 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 159) :

    I’m just saying – nowhere in the article does it say they congratulated Peter De Villiers….it just says “the Springbok coach” – so maybe someone should ask John Smit if he’s heard from the Lions. :roll:

  • Comment 161, posted at 02.07.09 09:13:25 by blackshark Reply

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  • @blackshark (Comment 158) :

    hahahahaa :mrgreen:

  • Comment 162, posted at 02.07.09 09:17:09 by wpw Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 159) :

    Where is this coming from?? The British media!

    I rest my case… :roll:

  • Comment 163, posted at 02.07.09 09:18:47 by wpw Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 160) :

    Let’s have the official team already – can’t wait for the game! (Rubbing hands)

  • Comment 164, posted at 02.07.09 09:56:24 by blackshark Reply

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  • @JarsonX (Comment 160) : I like the team and have this feeling that the Boks are gonna run riot this weekend.

    I don’t feel the need to ‘rest’ players quite yet and I think the core should stay together on saturday.

    MY match 15 for Saturday would be.

    15 Steyn
    14 JPP
    13 Fourie
    12 Meisiekind
    11 Habana
    10 Morne
    9 Fourie
    8 Spies
    7 Dewald Potgieter
    6 Brussouw
    5 Matfield
    4 Muller
    3 Smit
    2 Bismarck
    1 Beast

  • Comment 165, posted at 02.07.09 10:09:36 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @blackshark (Comment 164) : they are waiting for Bakkies appeal result or something like that

  • Comment 166, posted at 02.07.09 10:10:06 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @blackshark (Comment 161) : @wpw (Comment 163) : I’m not going there AGAIN today……you bunch of PdV boeties.

    @blackshark (Comment 164) : I also can’t wait….Lions are in for a drubbing I think

  • Comment 167, posted at 02.07.09 10:12:06 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 165) :

    I think Morne Steyn and Frans Steyn needs more game time before the 3 nations especially Frans.

    To drop Habs and JPP for the 3 rd test after they hardly saw any ball in the previous 2 tests would also not be right IMO

  • Comment 168, posted at 02.07.09 10:18:46 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 167) : :shock: PDV boeties. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • Comment 169, posted at 02.07.09 10:36:11 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 169) : :wink:

  • Comment 170, posted at 02.07.09 10:40:24 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I think I’ve asked this before but why does Olivier = Meisiekind? The hair?

  • Comment 171, posted at 02.07.09 10:50:50 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 171) : Ek dink so…sy hare lyk ok mos nooit deurmekaar nie…dit moet die baie hairspray wees :lol:

  • Comment 172, posted at 02.07.09 10:58:53 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 171) : Why does Klempie = Klempie

  • Comment 173, posted at 02.07.09 10:59:26 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 172) : Seker maar so… :p

  • Comment 174, posted at 02.07.09 10:59:53 by klempie Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 173) : Weet nie. Dis ‘n ou noemnaam wat ‘n vriend my gegee het.

  • Comment 175, posted at 02.07.09 11:01:38 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 171) :

    Spot on bru.

    He also admitted using facial products to keep his skin nice and soft. :shock:

  • Comment 176, posted at 02.07.09 11:05:59 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 176) : Is hy dan ‘n moffie…huh :evil:

  • Comment 177, posted at 02.07.09 11:36:09 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Charlie (Comment 177) :

    Ek hoor Adi gebruik oek van daai goed vir sy gesig. :mrgreen:

    En hy skeer sy beenhare. lmao

  • Comment 178, posted at 02.07.09 11:43:13 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 176) : @Charlie (Comment 177) : I use Nivea creme on my face…but it’s unfragranced so I think I’m ok. :???:

  • Comment 179, posted at 02.07.09 11:52:27 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 179) :

    Homo!! :twisted:

  • Comment 180, posted at 02.07.09 12:15:03 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 178) : Hy moes dit seker op kop ook gebruik het, want hy is dan nou Kojak :roll:

  • Comment 181, posted at 02.07.09 12:19:54 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • @klempie (Comment 179) : Oe jinne :twisted:

  • Comment 182, posted at 02.07.09 12:20:57 by Charlie Reply

    CharlieSuper Rugby player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 180) : @Charlie (Comment 182) : Come here big boys… :wink:

  • Comment 183, posted at 02.07.09 12:35:34 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 176) :

    Well done to him…it’s good when a man can look after himself! :grin:

  • Comment 184, posted at 02.07.09 12:48:36 by Prof. Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 152) :

    “@Salmonoid (Comment 128) :

    Read a great comment yesterday!

    Bekker should get cited and banned for sexually abusing Sheridan’s hand!”
    :lol: :twisted: thats bloody funny, sort of appropriate for this series.

  • Comment 185, posted at 02.07.09 13:20:07 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 185) :

    :mrgreen:

  • Comment 186, posted at 02.07.09 13:23:35 by Prof. Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    IceAssistant coach
     

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