Baldrick

Credit where credit is due


Written by Alan Williams (Baldrick)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks, WP on 14 Jul 2009 at 05:00
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While there is plenty of wailing and gnashing of teeth (anyone remember Dennis the menace and gnasher, pronounced g-nasher) going on about the lily-livered performance of the Sharks, perhaps there are a few other points of consideration worth… considering.

First up, both teams were missing a number of players, but I guess in the Sharks case, it was top players and while I am all for Guy Cronje getting more and more game time, otherwise he’ll never develop his game, we are missing a Ruan Pienaar or dare I say it, Hernandez, in the pivotal flyhalf jersey. And if you are going to select him, don’t so utterly wrap him in cotton wool to the point where he is on the field but doing nothing much at all?

And if you are going to kick up and unders, if, after 72 tries you haven’t regained the ball more than once, why not alter your game plan?

OK, onto a dose of reality. Both Province tries came off turnover ball. Yes, credit to Province for getting the ball off the Sharks, but then you have to ask why they were unable to craft any tries. Like the Sharks I suppose…

And where we are bemoaning the fact that we are low on depth, how is it that WP managed to buy in three fairly quality players. The locks were a revelation – in Cape Town at the least, two guys willing to work bloody hard for the ball instead of waiting for scoring opportunities. Their presence on the field provided a 10-fold advantage to any other locks that they might have played in their absence.

Their loose forward trio worked well in tandem and including Jack who I counted with two steals on the ground (might have been more), they poached ball like a dog licks its testicles – because it can. We simply turned over way too much ball and I feel that our loosies were outplayed in this department as were our tight 5 who didn’t support the ball-player enough.

Willem de Waal is an old hand at the kicking game, so he was always going to win that duel outright – and he did. I though Kockott was one shining beacon aside from the slow clearance that led to Chris Jack’s early try, but again, why not feed Stef or Swannie to clear under less pressure?

So, all things told, I think we should look past a poor showing first game up in a match littered with penalties, and give praise to Province who probably wanted the win more. After all, they have failed to make the semis for the past two years and have a point to prove.



116 Comments

  • Nice article and you have hit the nail on the head with the game plan. I think technically Plumtree is a good coach, but he lacks the vision that Dick brought to the team, in that he has a set game plan, and nobody is prepared to vary it, which was your downfall in the Super 14. If there is one thing I lament in modern rugby it is the inability of players to use their initiative, for fear of moving away from the dreaded game plan and if they do they face being dropped, hence the awful static 72 up and unders “because that is the game plan”, regardless if it is working or not.

  • Comment 1, posted at 14.07.09 06:36:05 by Whindy Reply
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  • it think Jake White should go visit the Tank :mrgreen:

  • Comment 2, posted at 14.07.09 06:47:14 by JarsonX (Insomniac) Reply
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  • Agree with much in this article.

    But the two points on those two tries.

    Yes of course it was turn over ball.

    But how did it get turned over?

    I mentioned to Rob yesterday even WP fans looked past the fact that WP had a kicking 12 on the park on Saturday in Grant, who of course is more a 10 than a 12.

    Add to that January who also clears a bit from the base and WP had 3 players, 9, 10 and 12 around which they could work around given the conditions.

    The Sharks had 1 – Kockett.

    It became very clear very quickly that Kockett will take the majority of the kicks himself, than have Cronje do it (because they obviously did not trust his skills).

    So what did WP had to do? Simply put a hell of a lot of pressure on Kockett, and boom, 20 seconds later try time.

    If you have a close look at what WP did at that very first ruck, you will see that they did their homework.

    The kick was deep, Sharks carried it up and ruck formed. WP then populated the fringes of the ruck with 4 or 5 players covering either side – NONE of them was interested in the flyhalf, all of them were looking to pounce on Kockett because it was almost inevitable that so early in the match, he was no way going to pass to Cronje to clear.

    WP charged down and scored. But you noticed throughout the game when the ball was in Sharks territory, they populated the fringes of the ruck yet again.

    Try 2 something very similar.

    Both Kockett and Deysel were two guys the Sharks would have wished to build their game around – Deysel ball carrier and Kockett kicker.

    WP only had to target these two guys and 90% of what the Sharks wanted to do fell through the floor. It was a great tackle on Deysel from Watson and Deysel did what he unfortunately does so often, isolated himself.

    Result, try.

    Sometimes it is much more interesting to look at the plan and skill that goes into creating turn overs from the opposition than to simply say the Sharks turned it over.

    But the main point for me was WP, in those conditions, could build their game around 3 kickers close in. This means if anything, they could vary their play and not allow the Sharks to simply target 1 area to put them under pressure.

    The Sharks only had 1 option, and that is to a large extent what lost it for them.

    Good arti though.

  • Comment 3, posted at 14.07.09 08:30:20 by Morné Reply
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  • I have to say guys, Plumtree REALLY ticked me off with his comments in this article:
    http://www.thetimes.co.za/Sport/Article.aspx?id=1033295
    A snipped for you:
    “For us, part of this Currie Cup is about developing talent,” Plumtree said. “We might get hurt along the way during the campaign, but if we can build some Currie Cup experience it will be to our benefit.

    “We’ll just fight along and see if we can pick up a few wins before the Springbok players return,” he said.

    “If we’re still in the competition, great, but if we’re not then we’ll look forward to the Super 14.”

  • Comment 4, posted at 14.07.09 08:31:21 by molly Reply
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  • I think Dick Muir gets too much credit – he didn’t prove anything positive after David Campese left…..and hasn’t done anything but give us heart attacks with the Springboks….

  • Comment 5, posted at 14.07.09 08:31:45 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • hey great to see you actually pointing out weaknesses in the sharks. your articles usually go on about how bad we are as fans for turning on the sharks when they had let us down yet again. you keep good perspective and raise points that have been raised numerous times before, without the emotion. good to see you have two sides.

  • Comment 6, posted at 14.07.09 08:34:53 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 4) : oops, I mean snippet, of course

  • Comment 7, posted at 14.07.09 08:35:02 by molly Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 3) : You’re 100% right on the pressure on Kockott and Deysel and again it’s credit to WP.

    I think the problem with the Sharks is they have become too predictable. UNfortunately, we don’t have explosive centres to break the line, so we try that with crash ball. Good defence will beat us because our attack is not very special at all.

    So while we complain about the lack of incisiveness on attack, what we also need to acknowledge is that Plumtree is building a house with the blocks he has.

  • Comment 8, posted at 14.07.09 08:37:03 by Baldrick Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 4) :
    Dick Muir used to say the same thing……lets face it a Super 14 trophy is waaaayyy better than a Curry Cup. Would like both though.

  • Comment 9, posted at 14.07.09 08:40:35 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 4) : i am happy with what he says. lets be realistic, the sharks are in trouble. their depth is shocking. we need new players getting quality game time. johan’s injury can also be seen as a blessing. the guy hasn’t missed a game in 5 years, so we don’t know who would replace him in a s14 situation if he was injured. we can now see. we also get to see the sharks under new leadership. eventhough it is the king of conservatism, stefan terblanche. bring in the youngsters let them show their worth. as much as i like andries strauss he is poor. rather try a possible future star than try hope for miracles from old bench sitters. bring on the development sharks, so we can get out of this downhill slide we are in.

  • Comment 10, posted at 14.07.09 08:42:31 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 9) : Maybe it just irritates me coming from a NZer, trying to cheapen the Currie Cup.

  • Comment 11, posted at 14.07.09 08:44:01 by molly Reply
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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 10) : But thats the point of good coaching, bring in the youngsters slowly without throwing away competitions. I can’t believe people, especially coaches, think its ok to lose.

  • Comment 12, posted at 14.07.09 08:46:35 by molly Reply
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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 10) : Its really just poor planning on Plumtree’s part and possibly those before him.

  • Comment 13, posted at 14.07.09 08:48:10 by molly Reply
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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 5) : dick could spot talent and develop it. other coaches just buy what they need. he also gave his players confidence to create something. plum doesn’t get the same response from his players.

  • Comment 14, posted at 14.07.09 08:48:42 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 12) : currently we are going to lose with the dreggs we have been carrying for the last five years. rather get rid of them and try some new guys. the sharks are going to lose, lets use the games then to develop so we are strong for the next 5 years.

  • Comment 15, posted at 14.07.09 08:50:41 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 13) : i put some blame at administration’s door. adolf doesn’t seem to be getting things right. one big name for three losses doesn’t add up.

  • Comment 16, posted at 14.07.09 08:52:10 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 11) : sanzar cheapened the currie cup. it doesn’t have the sparkle it had pre 2000.

  • Comment 17, posted at 14.07.09 08:53:17 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 12) : we have lost 8 top players to boks or injury, there is no going in slowly with youngsters. it is sink or swim time. and sharks swim.

  • Comment 18, posted at 14.07.09 08:56:01 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 12) : I totally agree with you, try time says the sharks don’t have depth, well that’s hard to believe, what have they been developing at the Sharks academy.
    Love them or hate them the Bulls under Meyer have done this outstandingly and they have blooded their youngsters, Plumtree has not!!

  • Comment 19, posted at 14.07.09 08:56:05 by Whindy Reply
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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 14) : SPOT ON, @Just a Fan (Comment 5) : I don’t think you can blame Dick for what is happening at the Boks look a bit higher up the ladder, it is the Coaches responsibility, and I am still not sure who is actually coaching the Boks anyway??

  • Comment 20, posted at 14.07.09 08:59:50 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 19) : exactly the question i posed the other day. what is the academy producing? how many of our top players came from the academy? is the academy just a money making scheme, to fleece starry eyed parents?

  • Comment 21, posted at 14.07.09 08:59:56 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 17) : Oh so since they cheapened it, its ok for everyone to treat it like its rubbish?

  • Comment 22, posted at 14.07.09 09:05:34 by molly Reply
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  • Here are the achievers of the academy. some impressive names, but where are the current stars. most these guys made their name under dick. and a lot have left. and a lot of these guys aren’t up to scratch and won’t produce in the s14.

    15 Scott Spedding Carl Bezuidenhout
    14 JP Pietersen Lwazi Mvovo Dusty Noble
    13 Waylon Murray Clyde Rathbone (Australia)
    12 Brad Barritt Riaan Swanepoel
    11 Cedric Mkhize Luzuko Vulindlu Howard Noble
    10 Frans Steyn Steve Meyer Braden Ferreira
    9 Sandile Nxumalo Thulani Nteta Ross Cronje
    8 Ryan Kankowski Justin Downey
    7 Tim Dlulani Nikolai Blignaut
    6 Keegan Daniel Conrad Stoltz
    5 Alistair Hargreaves Johan Snyman
    4 Steven Sykes Claude Dry
    3 Patric Cilliers Pompies Wessels JC Strauss
    2 Craig Burdon Jody Jenneker Jan-Toit van Jaarsveld
    1 Beast Mtawarira Sangoni Mxoli Barra Mthethwa

  • Comment 23, posted at 14.07.09 09:12:02 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 22) : yes. adapt or die. sa rugby had a chance to breathe life back into the comp, but they wasted it. in 2011 cc will be a joke.

  • Comment 24, posted at 14.07.09 09:13:47 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 24) : You are right it will basically become the Vodacom Cup!!

  • Comment 25, posted at 14.07.09 09:18:08 by Whindy Reply
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  • Molly, Plum does not disrespect the Currie Cup, its very much part of his rugby being, but he is being totally realistic and pragmatic about the situation he is in at the moment. Dont for one minute think that he and the team dont care about winning the Currie Cup, they do but they are realistic in their assessment that if they do pick up the necessary wins in the early stages then they wiil still have a real chance of winning the title. On the other hand if they fall short then HOPEFULLY some/many guys would have picked up valuable experience for next years Super14 and after that even the Currie Cup.
    Maybe the wording of the comments dont do the meaning justice.

  • Comment 26, posted at 14.07.09 09:24:17 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 20) : Elvis Presely

  • Comment 27, posted at 14.07.09 09:24:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 23) : reminds me, I must add Claude Dry to my list of missing locks… knew I’d forgotten someone.

  • Comment 28, posted at 14.07.09 09:26:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 25) : exactly, on saturday i watched the wp sharks game and i actually never got into it. i swore at the ref once and that was the sum total of my emotion. compare that to s14 and i sometimes get banished to the room.

  • Comment 29, posted at 14.07.09 09:29:42 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 23) :
    Looking at that list then its obvious that the academy has produced quiete impressively. Maybe the question now should be when last did it produce players of the above calibre and is it likely to in the near future.

    I know the ultimate goal will be to produce senior Sharks players but what is the realistic route that these players are expected to take, presumesably u19 then u21 and then Sharks.

  • Comment 30, posted at 14.07.09 09:30:25 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 28) : yes the sharks academy list is more a where’s wally game. :lol:

  • Comment 31, posted at 14.07.09 09:31:29 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 27) : You sure Michael is not teaching them tapdancing :grin:

  • Comment 32, posted at 14.07.09 09:31:32 by Whindy Reply
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  • TT, seeing that you are in Durban and, I’m sure, one of the Sharks administrations favourite sons, wouldnt it be possible to get the low down of the academy ins and outs.

  • Comment 33, posted at 14.07.09 09:33:17 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 30) : no – the Academy concedes that not all of them will make it at the Sharks, nor necessarily even as pro players. The idea is that the Sharks should pick the cream.

    Look, the Academy definitely HAS benefited the Sharks in recent years. Muir’s “baby team” in 2006 just about all came from the Academy and most have become boks already

  • Comment 34, posted at 14.07.09 09:34:04 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 33) : go search RuggaWorld for the interview I did with Hans Scriba some years back

  • Comment 35, posted at 14.07.09 09:35:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 30) : or are we developing players the team will need. no point in producing 20 wings when we need flyhalves and loosies. do they give the youngsters a better chance by developing them in two positions. how many loosies in sa could be excellent centres with a little ball handling training. their jobs are very similar, with the exception that centres need better ball distribution. are our wings trained as full backs? it is easy to move a fullback to wing, but you can’t move a wing to fullback. rose is a prime example.

  • Comment 36, posted at 14.07.09 09:36:07 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 31) :

    15 Scott Spedding (France) Carl Bezuidenhout (EP)
    14 JP Pietersen (Sharks) Lwazi Mvovo (Sharks) Dusty Noble (Lions)
    13 Waylon Murray (Sharks) Clyde Rathbone (Australia)
    12 Brad Barritt (Saracens) Riaan Swanepoel (Sharks)
    11 Cedric Mkhize (Retired injured) Luzuko Vulindlu (Sharks) Howard Noble (EP or SWD, not sure)
    10 Frans Steyn (France) Steve Meyer (France) Braden Ferreira (???)
    9 Sandile Nxumalo (Sharks) Thulani Nteta (???) Ross Cronje (Sharks)
    8 Ryan Kankowski (Sharks) Justin Downey (Sharks)
    7 Tim Dlulani (Bulls, then retired injured) Nikolai Blignaut (Sharks)
    6 Keegan Daniel (Sharks) Conrad Stoltz (???)
    5 Alistair Hargreaves (Sharks) Johan Snyman (Lions)
    4 Steven Sykes (Sharks) Claude Dry (France, I think)
    3 Patric Cilliers (Sharks) Pompies Wessels (deceased) JC Strauss (retired injured)
    2 Craig Burden (Sharks) Jody Jenneker (Club rugby in WC)
    1 Beast Mtawarira (Sharks) Sangoni Mxoli (Bulls) Barra Mthethwa (Sharks) Jan-Toit van Jaarsveld (retired injured)

  • Comment 37, posted at 14.07.09 09:39:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : well done rob. actually all this work we have done here youhave an article. you won’t need to do any work. copy and paste. and pose the question, where have things gone wrong?

  • Comment 38, posted at 14.07.09 09:46:00 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • I don’t think there is anything wrong with the academy, its all about blooding youngsters at the right time, dick’s babies, were given a lot more chances than the current bunch, lets face it, they were a pretty talented bunch as well, you cannot expect that all the time. I do think that Plum needs to blood them in less pressurised games, WP in the rain was a huge ask of Guy Cronje, up against a player of the experience of De Waal, I am not sure Plum had any option, but that is bad planning on his part, but I would prefer to see the youngsters coming up against the likes of the leopards, again as Dick did and develop a nice second string who know what Currie cup rugby is all about.

  • Comment 39, posted at 14.07.09 09:47:01 by Whindy Reply
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  • one question i do have is, were all the above achievers brought through the full academy, or given the year treatment so the academy gets a good name?

  • Comment 40, posted at 14.07.09 09:48:21 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Whindy (Comment 19) :
    Hi Whindy, do you think it is a foregone conclussion that the Bulls are going to take Province on Saturday at Loftus. Im not so sure at all. The Bulls do have depth, so everybody says, but now we will see how that depth comes to the party without all their Super 14 and Bok regulars next to them (much like the Sharks).
    Saturdays game at Loftus will give us a good indication of how deep in the dwang the Sharks are.

  • Comment 41, posted at 14.07.09 09:48:39 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 39) : spot on…

    You can’t expect the Academy to produce miracles.

    The part that is missing is somehow nurturing the youngsters through the phase “post academy” or “post u21″ when they’re on the fringes of selection but not quite good enough yet – or rather, are good enough, but there’s an established incumbent.

  • Comment 42, posted at 14.07.09 09:49:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 39) : yeah bring back the two squad system. and those that earn a spot get deserve it. why isn’t this being done during the vodacom cup. are the sharks wasting opportunities to get the best depth possible.

  • Comment 43, posted at 14.07.09 09:51:04 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 40) : the players that are identified at school and given junior contracts right from the start (like the Steyns and co) are definitely kept separate from the “run-of-the-mill” academy boys

  • Comment 44, posted at 14.07.09 09:51:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 43) : but it is being done! Everitt built a superb Vodacom Cup team that probably would have won had it not been for the fact that Griquas were completely unstoppable.

    Straueli has allowed so many of them to leave…

  • Comment 45, posted at 14.07.09 09:53:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 41) : I have taken a calculated risk on province causing an upset, big call against the Bulls at home, but they are a young team and they struggled against a very ordinary Lions team

  • Comment 46, posted at 14.07.09 09:54:42 by Whindy Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : That shows we are producing the forwards, but not the backs. And the same appears true for the current squad, we have the forwards but not the backs (although that changes significantly when we get our Boks back.)

    I think the point we should also ponder is whether those players who were recruited to the Academy would have been missed if there was no academy?

    Almost without doubt, the real stars never came through and graduated, they were always plucked from early days. Frans was there 6 months so produced or a “product” of the Academy isn’t strictly correct.

    Refined maybe?

  • Comment 47, posted at 14.07.09 09:54:54 by Baldrick Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 37) :
    JC Strauss (retired injured) ?
    Jan-Toit van Jaarsveld (retired injured) ?

  • Comment 48, posted at 14.07.09 09:59:09 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : Agree Rob, their job is to give the youngsters the tools to become better players, sorry to say it, but I think conservative coaching is the problem, the sharks have not got a clue about attacking rugby, they defend very well as they showed against the Lions. Attack was missing though!! Flyhalf and first center, is where that happens and with Pienaar out injured and Barret leaving, you were found wanting in the super 14.

  • Comment 49, posted at 14.07.09 09:59:47 by Whindy Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 45) : i know the vc squad was good. the question now is how big is the step from vc to cc and cc to s14. only the next two months will tell. ok enough playing devil’s advocate from me. it is obvious there is a lot right at the sharks, and a lot that needs attention.

  • Comment 50, posted at 14.07.09 10:00:41 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 47) : and we all know that *nobody* can teach Frans anything…

    @Salmonoid (Comment 48) : ok… you need to pay closer attention. You can search the Sharksworld Archives for the exclusive story about what happened to JC Strauss. As for Jan-Toit, I believe he picked up a neck injury that ended his career. At the age of 22. Sad, hey?

  • Comment 51, posted at 14.07.09 10:01:04 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 49) : you are completely right.

    But 10s and 12s are thin on the ground in SA in general… or rather, we have them at junior level but they never really seem to push on. Bad coaching again?

  • Comment 52, posted at 14.07.09 10:02:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • i would like to add, that although i am hard on the sharks as i expect them to do better with the foundation and finance they have, they aren’t the only ones in this predicament. wp, cheetahs and lions are in the same mess. maybe it is time to look at nationalising rugby structures and get rid of this unionism. i think it is the biggest stumbling block in rugby development in this country.

  • Comment 53, posted at 14.07.09 10:04:08 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 50) : remember that a lot of the VC squad is still with the under 21s this year, though… that’s going to be a good side, despite a disappointing loss to WP.

  • Comment 54, posted at 14.07.09 10:04:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 45) :
    “Straueli has allowed so many of them to leave…”
    Did he really have any choice, realistically how many people can the union contract in a position, paying them their worth while they never get game time because there are some hugely talented guys ahead of them. Even if it could be afforded who is going to sit around waiting for a year or two to get a game.

  • Comment 55, posted at 14.07.09 10:06:57 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • finally we have a good rugby debate going. well done guys.

  • Comment 56, posted at 14.07.09 10:10:43 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 51) :
    Now how are we meant to know who has an article about them living in the archives somewher and who hasn’t. The 2 players mentioned are a case in point. The one must be searched but the other not. Make this easy for us, we dont hang out here all the time. :twisted:

  • Comment 57, posted at 14.07.09 10:14:28 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • I want to know what goes wrong between the ages of 19 /21 and becoming an open rugby players we have these youngsters who are brilliant, but just don’t seem to be able to make the step up, surely it cant all be bad coaching, the player has to be accountable as well, is it a matter of lacking the self belief and not pushing on are we not hungry enough, or is there a need for motivational guys to give these guys the confidence to make it. Frans Steyn was a classic case of a great youngster who almost made it, but now is sorely lacking

  • Comment 58, posted at 14.07.09 10:15:22 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 55) : well, I don’t know… how do the Bulls manage to keep a squad of 50+ guys on contract?

    I think we had the right idea with the loan system, but after the Pompies and Cedric incident, I think the powers that be (understandably) developed cold feet. It looks like we’re trying it again, in a limited fashion. Jacques Potgieter and Thabo Mamojele are currently out on loan.

  • Comment 59, posted at 14.07.09 10:18:09 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 57) : check out the Tags page…

    or if you google “JC Strauss”, guess which article has the highest rank? :)

  • Comment 60, posted at 14.07.09 10:21:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 55) : then wouldn’t it be better to take all contracting power away from unions and have a central body that contract sa players. so like new zealand, all the top players are contracted to nzru. unions then loan players and make up the numbers with players from their academies. unions may only buy one top player per position so they can’t waste talent. unions get to sell their youngsters to the central union if they make the grade, and with this revenue get to develop more stars.

    ok as an example: sa rugby holds the contract of the top 60 players in sa. all unions get to buy players, but are limited to one per position. this will stop the john smit, bis saga’s from occurring. the teams have first option on players they provided to the central union. the remainder of the players then come from the individual unions structures.what this will stop, is players like danie roussouw, peter grant, heini adams etc from sitting on the bench because one union has an excess of players in a position. this takes pressure off top players cos they know they are going to be looked after and it takes pressure off the unions that have to try hold onto players with limited resources. it also helps unions when the boks are out.

  • Comment 61, posted at 14.07.09 10:21:54 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 55) : I was having this argument with someone who said “Look at the Bulls”, if they can keep their youngsters, why can’t we?

    I think it boils down quite possibly to an afrikaner nationalism thing. The Cheetahs, as a predominetly afrikaans team don’t really have much to offer, whereas for the bulls, that’s the heart of all things afrikaans, and where one can remain true to one’s roots if one is so inclined.

    Durban offers the lifestyle but little success in general if you look over the past 13 years.

    So while Durban and CT are great places to live, they really just offer a lifestyle. For an afrikaner who treasures his afrikanerdom, the Bulls is where it’s at. I think just to be a part of that structure and soak up the afrikaner-ness is worth sitting on the sidelines.

    And this is not a go at Afrikaners or their traditions. As an Englishman, there is no team that pulls me. Only the Sharks and that’s because I have lived in Durban all my life.

  • Comment 62, posted at 14.07.09 10:23:23 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Whindy (Comment 58) : I honestly reckon the answer is to scrap the B division of the Currie Cup and rather run a provincial under-23 league. You can identify a “feeder region” for each of the 6 CC teams and base the under 23 teams there to take the game to the locals. Include a few players from that region to give it local flavour, if you must.

  • Comment 63, posted at 14.07.09 10:24:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 58) : oh he made it, he just let his immaturity ruin his potential. instead of listening to those in the know, he had to go on his his i am a centre and flyhalf tyrade. it took him two years to realise that everyone was right he is a top class fullback. pity he was wasted for two years. now he is off overseas where he will give metro the service that the sharks deserved for putting up with his stupidity and making him the player he is now.

  • Comment 64, posted at 14.07.09 10:27:42 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 61) : Don’t you think that the reason for the Bulls sucsess was due to their depth, and by doing that your Provinces will lose control, which btw I think would be a good thing, at least then the Boks would come first just not sure about the management side of things at SARU, Then Mr. Snor would ultimately be in control, will never happen though the provinces would never give up control. Too many empires would be lost!!

  • Comment 65, posted at 14.07.09 10:28:09 by Whindy Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 60) :
    Thanks, I got it. Sad, he had huge potential.

  • Comment 66, posted at 14.07.09 10:30:40 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 62) : a lot of the guys contracted to the Bulls are not Afrikaans, though…

  • Comment 67, posted at 14.07.09 10:30:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 67) : OK, egg on my face and a funny thing happened last year, was watching Bulls U21s vs Sharks U21s. Bulls were communicating in English and Sharks in….. Afrikaans.

    OK, that blows my theory out of the water.

  • Comment 68, posted at 14.07.09 10:34:32 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 66) : he’s back in training, apparently… but who knows if he’ll ever get back to the top level.

  • Comment 69, posted at 14.07.09 10:34:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 62) : Interesting angle.

  • Comment 70, posted at 14.07.09 10:34:47 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @try time (superrugby’s kryptonite is SANZAR) (Comment 61) :
    Yeah right, that just makes too much sense for SARU never mind each individual union who Im sure would fight something like that tooth and nail because then some guys and their support personell will be out of work.
    It will definatly ensure an equitable distribution and balance of players and the necessary guys will be getting the game time.

  • Comment 71, posted at 14.07.09 10:35:06 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 68) : :lol:

  • Comment 72, posted at 14.07.09 10:35:34 by klempie Reply

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  • @Whindy (Comment 65) : that is the problems. the only way it would work is a rebel league gets created with the aim of overthrowing sa rugby. that would take money, but it would be a proper professional structure. the new league would use these new stadia that have been created and will probably stand empty. it would also be able to distance itself from politics as it is a business and isn’t bound to government bodies. sa rugby is trapped in its amateur days structures that have kept it from reaching the potential sa has as a rugby nation.

  • Comment 73, posted at 14.07.09 10:35:48 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • I didn’t read the all the comment, so forgive me for repeating.

    I must have seen the game differently, because apart from his goalkicking I think Kockett had a shocker and conceded at least 3 penalties that I remenber.

  • Comment 74, posted at 14.07.09 10:36:43 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 68) : :lol: you had a try time moment.

  • Comment 75, posted at 14.07.09 10:37:24 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 68) : Paul Anthony has helped kick down the Bulls door and now a lot of Boys High boys are getting a look in. Previously, they stood no chance.

  • Comment 76, posted at 14.07.09 10:37:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • i agree i don’t think rory was that great. he kept getting himself trapped by running into forwards the whole time. instead of distributing ball.

  • Comment 77, posted at 14.07.09 10:39:11 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 67) : Correct, but they have to fifo, to the whole system and I agree with Baldrick, there is a very Afrikaans thing going on at the Bulls and say what you like, the Boere have always been more committed to putting their bodies on the line for “volk and vaderland” and we English tend to stand back when it gets a little tough:-) I think its a pity that the Free stater’s are not able to hold on to mire of their youngsters because they are ultimately the best at producing decent rugby players, IMO.

  • Comment 78, posted at 14.07.09 10:39:22 by Whindy Reply
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  • hey where are the so called “rugby speaking” ladies when there is a real debate going on? :lol:

  • Comment 79, posted at 14.07.09 10:43:15 by try time (superrugby's kryptonite is SANZAR) Reply

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  • @Baldrick (Comment 62) :
    The comfort and magnetism (and bloody good boerekos, its worth a try) that the monument offers.

    Mad, stupid never to be repeated things I have done in Pretoria, and survived….
    Cheered for Maties at a sold out Loftus intervarsity match against Tuks. (this wasnt so bad, got pelted to next year with naartjies) and

    walked (staggered) around the Tuks joolplaas (rag farm) chanting Yeah WITS… this was a very reckless thing to do in those days, something akin to chanting FREE MANDELA.

  • Comment 80, posted at 14.07.09 10:44:11 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 76) : Did you see young Fudge Mabeta got a run, now Baldrick that really blows your theory out of the water. Father is an ANC stalwart married to a Creole from reunion or Mauritius, educated at an English school ;-) )

  • Comment 81, posted at 14.07.09 10:45:25 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 81) : and has a known penchant for the wacky weed :)

  • Comment 82, posted at 14.07.09 11:00:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 80) : LMAO. I am a Tukkie! :twisted: So is Rob actually. We can likes to spoke Afrikaans very good. :razz:

  • Comment 83, posted at 14.07.09 11:10:34 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Whindy (Comment 78) : Too true – some would call it “patriotism” and loyalty – something that perhaps the Sharks are lacking? :shock:

  • Comment 84, posted at 14.07.09 11:11:59 by diablo Reply

    diabloVodacom Cup player
     
  • @diablo (Comment 84) : Us souties have never really been loyal to anything. Look what we think of the Poms. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 85, posted at 14.07.09 11:18:31 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 85) : Except Rob of course. :cool:

  • Comment 86, posted at 14.07.09 11:19:30 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 83) :
    I had no connection to TUKS, but I was there that night with a friend that studied at WITS and he was very Afrikaans but also very proud of WITS.

  • Comment 87, posted at 14.07.09 11:19:32 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 83) : difference between you and me is that you ENJOY it :)

    Only kidding, folks… Afrikaans is ‘n baie lekker taal en ek geniet dit baie om so gereeld soos montlik dié wonderlikke taal to gebruik! Ek is ook besing om Duits en Nederlands to leër en Afrikaans help sommer baie daarmee.

  • Comment 88, posted at 14.07.09 11:21:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • 0/1 – moving along to the next game.

    Plum is right – all we have to do is be part of the Big 4 – come SEMIFINAL time we can beat anyone – anywhere…

    SHARKS forever!

  • Comment 89, posted at 14.07.09 11:21:44 by blackshark Reply

    blackshark - I'm back!Super Rugby player
     
  • @klempie (Comment 86) : I like the English culture…. let me rather say no more :)

  • Comment 90, posted at 14.07.09 11:21:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 88) : Awwwww. You have even gone to the effort of putting koppeltekens on your e’s. :wink:

  • Comment 91, posted at 14.07.09 11:25:00 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 90) : That’s only cos Brad is playing for them now. :razz:

  • Comment 92, posted at 14.07.09 11:27:41 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @diablo (Comment 84) : and others would call it a salary, otherwise how do you explain the unpatriotic Vrystaaters.

  • Comment 93, posted at 14.07.09 11:28:03 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @blackshark (Comment 89) :
    Exactly.

  • Comment 94, posted at 14.07.09 11:30:25 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • Ice is die grootse biets vannie blog.

    Sy dink sy het die mooiste boobs op die blog maar ons weet hulle behoort aan TT.

    Beware everyone. I have just taught Icey how to use HTML tags. Don’t say I didn’t warn you. :cool:

  • Comment 95, posted at 14.07.09 11:32:13 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • It’s the old quality vs quantity argument. If we can’t contract a lot of players – then let’s contract versatile players.

    I agree with TT – if you’re hoping to make it in the big league you have to be good in more than one position – cos you don’t know where your big break will come from.

    Let’s all get over the loss- and see what the boys are going to dish up in the next game. I’m still waiting for the new guys to impress.

  • Comment 96, posted at 14.07.09 11:42:16 by blackshark Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 91) :

    Its not “koppeltekens” it’s called “Umlaut” (Rob will understand this if he’s studying German)

  • Comment 97, posted at 14.07.09 11:51:44 by Prof. Ice Reply
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  • @Prof. Ice (Comment 97) : OK. What are koppeltekens then?

  • Comment 98, posted at 14.07.09 11:54:51 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Prof. Ice (Comment 97) : eintlik in Afrikaans is dit ‘n dëelteken

  • Comment 99, posted at 14.07.09 11:56:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 98) : Ah koppelteken is a hyphen. Koppel means to couple… so a hyphen couples two terms together. They never use them in Afrikaans anyway, so I don’t know why they bother.

  • Comment 100, posted at 14.07.09 11:57:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 99) :

    Nope – ‘n deelteken is “deviding” like in maths…even in Afr klas at school we use to call it an umlaut…

    @klempie (Comment 98) :

    Hyphen (spelling)

  • Comment 101, posted at 14.07.09 11:58:32 by Prof. Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • Right so again, what the hell are the two dots that distinguish a high school from a whore school?

  • Comment 102, posted at 14.07.09 12:01:26 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 102) :

    an UMLAUT!!!!

    Oh you were referring to the accentuation thingy…thats something like a pika …cannot remember

  • Comment 103, posted at 14.07.09 12:07:29 by Prof. Ice Reply
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  • @Prof. Ice (Comment 101) :

    No Rob is right, however the ‘deëlteken’ is supposed to be on the second vowel.

    A deëlteken in Afrikaans is used where you have two vowels together in which where you pronounce the word it might be pronounced as something different than what it is supposed to mean – classic example, Hoerskool and Hoërskool…

  • Comment 104, posted at 14.07.09 12:10:19 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 99) :

    I just saw you are right…it IS a deelteken…Sorry!! :shock:

    @Prof. Ice (Comment 103) :

    Akuut teken

  • Comment 105, posted at 14.07.09 12:10:32 by Prof. Ice Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 104) : Thanks Morras. You’ve brought sanity to an otherwise confused debate. Unsurprisingly it was Drol that was bringing all the confusion. :roll:

  • Comment 106, posted at 14.07.09 12:14:11 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 106) :

    I was halpad reg, man! :evil: No confusion – maybe it’s the pills you are on.. :lol:

  • Comment 107, posted at 14.07.09 12:18:50 by Prof. Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 93) : True, but imo, if you can have the salary AND the passion, then you have a winning combination.

  • Comment 108, posted at 14.07.09 12:28:22 by diablo Reply

    diabloVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 104) : I knew I had it in the wrong place! Thanks.

    So you are using it to divide the sound of the diphthong.

  • Comment 109, posted at 14.07.09 12:31:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 109) :

    Why ar you lisping?? :lol:

  • Comment 110, posted at 14.07.09 12:42:11 by Prof. Ice Reply
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  • @Prof. Ice (Comment 110) : :)

  • Comment 111, posted at 14.07.09 12:43:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 109) :

    When in doubt, always ask a dutchie!

  • Comment 112, posted at 14.07.09 12:44:36 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 112) :

    Hey – ek IS een… :lol:

  • Comment 113, posted at 14.07.09 12:46:26 by Prof. Ice Reply
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  • all of this stuff has distracted me from what I really wanted to do… which was to go back and check out the Sharks VC squad and see how many of them are still around

  • Comment 114, posted at 14.07.09 12:53:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 114) :

    All in a day of Afrikaans lessons.. :lol:

  • Comment 115, posted at 14.07.09 12:56:27 by Prof. Ice Reply
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  • @Prof. Ice (Comment 115) : inderdaad :

  • Comment 116, posted at 14.07.09 13:00:13 by robdylan Reply
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