A lot of people believe that the USA are the sleeping giants of world rugby… I respectfully disagree.
There are a lot of similarities to be drawn from Argentina’s inexplicable continued exclusion from World Rugby and what happens right at home.
Earlier this week news broke that SANZAR, the Southern Hemisphere alliance of South African, New Zealand and Australia, sent out a ‘conditional’ invitation to Argentina to join the SANZAR alliance in what will hope to be a new Four Nations tournament from 2012.
Of course this was greeted with much joy from rugby lovers all over the world not to mention the Argentine rugby union themselves.
My first thoughts were ‘FINALLY’, but then I got a thinking (which is a dangerous thing in itself) and I cannot help but come to the conclusion that one, it is actually a slap in the face of Argentine rugby to send them a ‘conditional’ invitation and secondly, beware of the sleeping giant…
Since noises were made in South Africa about the Spears (now Kings) and how SA Rugby is looking to include them in the Super rugby circles I was very happy and supported the initiative 1000%.
You see I was always of the view that our rugby is run like a monopoly, where 5 unions effectively run SA Rugby and call the shots (as a typical old boys club) where the other guys are left to suck on the hind tit and feed of scraps.
I have always opposed this for one very simple reason.
If we concentrate our rugby strengths and resources to a limited (minority) number of unions, we actually create a situation where we hurt the game of rugby in this country by not encouraging development and growth of the game on a national basis using ALL our resources available to us.
You see the guys in power do not want to share, because that will mean they will lose power and perhaps, even awaken a sleeping giant which in South Africa’s case, is the Spears or Kings. Power corrupts, absolute power…
But back to Argentina.
Just consider the following…
The first rugby union match in Argentina was played in 1873. In 1910 a side managed by Oxford University — supposedly the England national team but included three Scottish players — toured Argentina: the people of Argentina termed it the “Combined British”, also known as a “Great Britain XV”. Argentina made their international debut against this team (their first official test), losing 28-3 on 12 July in Buenos Aires.
In 1952, Argentina played an Ireland XV in a non-cap international held in Buenos Aires. Argentina lost the first Test by six points but raised the bar in the second meeting in Buenos Aires to draw 3-3. It wasn’t a win, but it was the first time Argentina had avoided defeat against a major European team and it was celebrated as a victory.
Back in the late 1960s the four home unions began tours to Argentina, and after Wales struggled in both Tests in Buenos Aires in 1967 it soon became clear that Argentina would be a difficult place to win a series. Scotland became their next victims when the Pumas won the first test in 1968. The Scots won the second test two weeks later, but it was close.
The first trip of the Argentina national rugby team to the other side of the Atlantic was to Rhodesia and South Africa in 1965. The team acquired the nickname “Pumas”, from a local journalist after their first tour match, a defeat to Salisbury. The book “Be Pumas” recalls the Wackley Farmer of Rhodesia magazine commenting on the emblem embroidered on the tourists’ jerseys was like a puma – rather than a jaguar. After defeats to Salisbury and Northern Transvaal, the first win came against Western Transvaal, another against South West Africa Country Districts and finally against the Southern Universities. The Pumas’ landmark win against the Junior Springboks, by 11-6. They were welcomed home to Buenos Aires by a huge crowd; the tour had harvested 11 victories, one draw and four defeats over two months.
Wales arrived in Buenos Aires in 1968 and for the first time in their history the Pumas were able to triumph in a series, winning the first match 9-5 and drawing the second 9-9. The first great decade in Argentine rugby came to a close with the arrival of Scotland in 1969. The first match saw a big Argentine victory 20-3, but in the second game the visitors narrowly won 6-3.
Through the 1970s, Argentina confirmed its steady rise towards top-tier status under the impulse of its first truly world-class player, fly-half Hugo Porta. During their European tour in 1976, the Pumas came tantalizingly close to a grandiose victory at Cardiff Arms Park over Wales, then the dominant force in the Northern Hemisphere. Only a Phil Bennett penalty on a foul by Gabrielo Travaglini at the death allowed the Welsh to escape with a 20-19 victory. Two years later Argentina returned for their 1978 European tour and held a virtually full-strength England XV to a 13-13 draw before beating Italy 19-6.
The early 1980s also saw the formation of the South American Jaguars, a team dominated by Argentine players, which played eight matches against the Springboks including one win at Bloemfontein in 1982.
From the late seventies to the early nineties, Argentina never lost the two matches of a series held in Buenos Aires, in a period that included victories against France, England, Australia and a 21-21 tie to the All Blacks, which is probably the most important result ever obtained by the Pumas, thanks to a terrific performance by Hugo Porta who scored all of Argentina’s points.
Perhaps the one of the Pumas’ best matches in recent years came on 23 May 2005 in Cardiff, when they played the British and Irish Lions in the Lions’ send-off match for their tour to New Zealand. The Pumas were forced to choose a side of second- and even third-choice players (prop Mauricio Reggiardo, later voted man of the match, came out of retirement for the game) as 25 players from their selection pool were unavailable due to club commitments. However, a Pumas performance widely hailed as inspired, combined with lacklustre play by a mostly second-choice Lions side, put Argentina on the verge of one of the greatest upsets in recent rugby history. It took a Jonny Wilkinson penalty at the death—and arguably the decision by Australian referee Stuart Dickinson to allow eight minutes of added time at the end of the match—for the Lions to salvage a 25-25 draw and avoid a humiliating defeat.
In the 2006 mid-year Tests, Argentina welcomed a Wales side for a two-Test tour. Los Pumas swept the series, marking their first Test series win over Wales. The first test, on June 11, was a closely-fought affair, won 27-25. It was historically significant as the first Argentina Test ever to be held in Patagonia. The visitors were welcomed very warmly, as the match was held in Puerto Madryn, one of the major towns in an area that was settled by Welsh in the 1860s and where Welsh is still frequently spoken. The second Test at Vélez Sársfield on June 17 saw the Pumas take a 45-13 lead before two late Welsh tries cut the final margin to 45-27. This did, however, mark Argentina’s largest win ever over Wales. Los Pumas next entertained the world’s top team, the All Blacks, at Vélez Sársfield the following week. The All Blacks won 25-19, but not until surviving an all-out Pumas assault on their try line in the final minutes.
During their World Cup run in 2007 where they claimed bronze ending 3rd overall – their best ever World Cup performance (by beating France twice), the normally football-crazed Argentines embraced the Pumas so much that El Superclásico, the Buenos Aires football derby between Boca Juniors and River Plate that is normally the biggest event in Argentine sport, was rescheduled so that it would not conflict with the Pumas’ quarter-final match.[11] As the only major Spanish language country in the 2007 Rugby World Cup, the Pumas also had considerable support from rugby fans in Spain, Uruguay, and other Latin American countries during their impressive five game winning streak.
Argentina claimed their highest world ranking ever following this, 3rd place.
Now fast forward to 2009, where SANZAR sends a ‘conditional’ invitation to the Pumas…
I don’t know what you call it, but I call it a slap in the face of one of the (not always but definately recently) most successful rugby union teams in the world.
Argentina have won 161 of their 270 Test matches, a win record of 59.63%.
If you consider some of the names Argentine rugby has produced like Patricio Noriega (who later represented Australia), Christian Martin, Federico Méndez, Hugo Porta, Augustine Pichot and Henrandez (to name a few) and how Argentine rugby is arguably one of the most balanced rugby nations when it comes to brute strength in the forwards, magicians in the backline, and a unrivalled passion from their players (just look at the emotion when they sing their national anthem) who has a home union still operating as an amateur union in 2009, you would understand why I believe the Rugby Old-Boys’ club (4 home unions up North and 3 SANZAR unions) are shit scared in case they just might awake rugby’s REAL, Sleeping Giant…
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If the 4 nations happens then Aus & NZ should be made to travel to SA and Arg in one go to even out the travel a bit.
And we go to Aus & NZ (obviously) then home and then to Arg. Or vice versa.
You support something a 1000%? I hope that is a typo
Or sarcasm.
Like Rose saying he always puts in 150%. Er, no. The maximum is 100%. If you are going to say 150%, why not 1500%, or 1500000000%?
Me, a maths Nazi? Never!
@Bullitt (Comment 2) : Amen. One of my biggest little gripes in the world is this talk of giving 100%+ effort.
Oh, and I can’t wait for the Pumas to join us. Will be fantastic if they play their best team.
It will mean that Springboks will never play Currie Cup again though. Well, unless they are coming back from injury. The Super 15 and 4 nations will last just about all year.
And Morné, it is bad form to plagiarise some of the article whole-sale from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_national_rugby_union_team#2007_World_Cup
The Eastern Cape is more like a giant in a coma on life suopport than a sleeping giant.
Well wikipedia aside, i thought it was a great article well put by Morne.
With a wining ratio of just under 60%, they’ve been completely underestimated all these years.
@Bullitt (Comment 5) :
It is a opinion, backed up by facts of the union as found on Wiki.
I could have pasted just the Wiki link word for word for you with no opinion around it but I reckoned that would have been pretty boring and fruitless don’t you think?
It is however good to see people check the facts I post, thanks.
@CapeShark (Comment 7) : I agree. Too many years at University have made me sensitive to the two things I have mentioned. Sorry if I seemed harsh there Morne.
I wish Los Pumas all the best. Hopefully they will have their best players available and they wont be overplayed by their clubs.
@Bullitt (Comment 5) :
But if it will make you feel better, I will include the footnote: “Additional facts and sources sourced from Wiki”.
Let me know.
@Bullitt (Comment 9) :
No problem, we all source information to substantiate an opinion, but I believe the opinion is what counts, backed up by the facts you include.
Good article, although I was just 45% committed to reading the history of Arg rugby.
@McLovin (Comment 13) :
It is more than usual I am proud of you!!!
@McLovin (Comment 13) :
Aim for 101% next time!
@Bullitt (Comment 4) : Yes…that is exactly what I am afraid of…it could lead to the demise of the CC as we all know it
@Me2 aka Mama Shark (Comment 16) :
CC has been gone for the last 5 or more years mama!
Most are just waking up to that fact now…
Eish! About 10posts since I started reading this novel!
Morne – what do they mean by “conditional” – what is the conditions?
….”lose all your games, or you are out of the Tournament…?”
I still do not know why they change it…just now it will be a 5 nations etc.
Why has this been implemented?
@Morné (Comment 8) : It is a great article (see my reply to CapeShark). But having links to articles that served as sources of info is a good way of giving the original journalist/website credit for their work.
I am sure you would like other people to link back to you if you put in some hard work on an article and they make use of it. Back links help increase your ranking on Google and this is important for most bloggers or internet content providers. One can always quote another article directly, just reference or link back to where you got the quote.
I enjoyed reading your opinion, and I agree that that is the main purpose of your article. I am sorry if my comments came across as harsh. That was not their purpose.
@Morné (Comment 12) : I like the fact part, opinion means nothing without it…
One good thing about the quattro-nations is we’ll be going back to only one home and away match against each other.
@Morné (Comment 17) :
It is still the most exciting domestic tournament!
@Bullitt (Comment 19) :
No worries, I always give credit to individual authors as many similar pieces I have posted on here and many other sites will prove – with Wiki that is impossible however since they have unlimited authors or contributors of which you might be one as far as I know!
As far as google rankings goes…
I have no clue, I just write the kak, and for most, people on here read it (or part of it)
@Me2 aka Mama Shark (Comment 22) :
As far as domestic tournaments goes I am not going to dispute it.
It is far better than the Vodacom Cup for sure!!!
The CC just simply does not have the importance it enjoyed pre-1995.
@Morné (Comment 24) :
Refer to 18…I asked a question please…
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 18) : They must pick their best team. So it will mostly depend on the Franch clubs to release the players for the tournament.
@McLovin (Comment 26) : Franch being alot like French. Hard to tell the difference.
@McLovin (Comment 26) :
Oh…so if they cannot guarantee that – it will stay Tri Nations?
@McLovin (Comment 27) :
Sounds like a late night pub type of word..
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 18) : @SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 25) :
It centers around picking their best players.
This is impossible to enforce and measure – just who is the best and who decides???
The thing that worries me is that the fact that they named it a ‘conditional’ invitation gives them a good reason to cop out should they feel like it.
For these old boys its all about money, if there is only 3 slices to the pie everyone is happy – as soon as a 4th slice comes in it means the slices are getting smaller…
SA and Arg have always had close relations… I know Hoskins has been fighting long and hard for them, but NZ and Aus worry me as they know the real money would come if SANZAR includes the likes of Japan…
Watch this space – there is a lot of kak still on the way.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 28) : Yip. Very difficult to police though.
S14/Tri-Nation teams should also pick their best sides according to the rules, but NZ have withdrawn players from the S14 and SA the Tri-Nations.
@Morné (Comment 29) :
i dont understand all these inhouse politics…
So SA wanted it to be the 4 nations?
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 31) :
Yes SA always wanted Arg involved.
It will make the much debated travel effect more even too for all countries…
And SA also at one stage proposed Arg camp in SA for the duration of the comp, which means NZ and Aus will have longer tours in SA in their away legs…
Remember SANZAR pays for the travel of teams, so travel costs directly affects profits for SANZAR.
@Morné (Comment 32) :
As Rachel said – it will be one home game and one away against all three? (Except for when Arg stays in SA)
Still – what would the reason be for us to want to have another team involved? Whats the Pro’s and what is the cons? Sorry for all the questions..
@Morné (Comment 12) : If you use info verbatim from another source, even if it is to back up your article, you should credit the source.
1. It is ethical because of plagiarism charges; and
2. It is copyright infringement.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 33) :
Pro’s are really development of the game, which is all our responsibilities as the leading rugby nations.
Remember rugby is trying to become an Olympic sport, which has absolutely massive spin off’s for the game itself, but one of the things that the Olympic committee has against rugby is that it is only really competitive in 8 rugby nations from the over 100 registered unions worldwide.
It is not really represented as a global sport which is what they want for inclusion as an Olympic sport.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 33) :
Biggest con, simple.
MONEY.
@Morné (Comment 35) : @Morné (Comment 36) :
thank you and thank you
@Morné (Comment 36) :
Thats what I thought. And that was why I could not understand this whole thing being implemented – which is explained in 35..
@Baldrick (Comment 34) :
For crying in a bucket!
Given the type of ‘source’ Wiki is and what it is, the exact ‘original’ reference or author is impossible to tell since there is more than one author to any one piece at any one time on a free encyclopedia site such as Wiki.
Parts of what was quoted above can come from any of the following sources or authors:
References
1. ^ a b c Iribarren, Ezequiel (2008-02-21). “Le buscaron pareja” (in Spanish). ole.clarin.com. http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2008/02/21/rugby/01612206.html. Retrieved 2008-02-22.
2. ^ a b Cain, Nick (2007-02-25). “Ambitious Argentina poised to secure TriNations place”. The Sunday Times. http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby/article1434537.ece. Retrieved 2007-02-26.
3. ^ “England 18-25 Argentina”. BBC. 2006-11-11. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/6133484.stm. Retrieved 2007-06-02.
4. ^ Oferta para ser local en Bélgica
5. ^ A la UAR le llueven ofertas para la concentración de Los Pumas previa al Mundial
6. ^ “Pumas will stay crouched until 2010″. RugbyRugby.com. 2007-08-13. http://www.rugbyrugby.com/tournaments/tri_nations/story_13807145000.php. Retrieved 2007-10-11.
7. ^ “First Test Preview: Argentina v Ireland”. Irish Rugby Football Union. 2007-05-25. http://irishrugby.ie/283_8251.php?PHPSESSID=646ba128a2708845c6954bf143d3c180. Retrieved 2007-05-26.
8. ^ “Argentina 22-20 Ireland”. BBC. 2007-05-26. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/irish/6691995.stm. Retrieved 2007-05-26.
9. ^ “Argentina 16-0 Ireland”. BBC. 2007-06-02. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/irish/6715723.stm. Retrieved 2007-06-02.
10. ^ “Coach asks Argentina to stay calm”. BBC Sport. 2007-09-08. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/6984647.stm. Retrieved 2007-09-08.
11. ^ PA Sport (2007-10-09). “Contepomi’s field of dreams”. Sportal.co.nz. http://sportal.co.nz/default.aspx/rugby-union-rwc-news-display/contepomis-field-of-dreams-36998. Retrieved 2007-10-09.
12. ^ International Rugby Board (2007-11-30). “Rugby lays foundations for continued growth”. Press release. http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2021332.html#rugby+lays+foundations+continued+growth. Retrieved 2007-12-03.
13. ^ “Pumas have to wait: NZRU”. RugbyHeaven.com. 2007-11-30. http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/pumas-have-to-wait-nzru/2007/12/04/1196530635733.html. Retrieved 2007-12-05.
14. ^ Davies, Sean (2007-07-26). “Puma power: Argentinian rugby”. bbc.co.uk. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/5389512.stm. Retrieved 2007-10-08.
15. ^ a b “Argentina > Head to Head Table”. rugbydata.com. http://www.rugbydata.com/argentina/h2htable. Retrieved 2007-08-29.
16. ^ Record excludes match against the Barbarians as this was not a representative side.
17. ^ Ranking archives can be found at the IRB website; http://www.irb.com
18. ^ International Rugby Board – World Rankings: Full world rankings
19. ^ (Spanish) UAR. Plantel de Los Pumas para los partidos de la ventana de junio
20. ^ (Spanish) UAR. Entrenadores de Los Pumas de todos los Tiempos
* Argentina’s time in the sun (from the BBC)
* Puma power (from the BBC)
[edit] External links
Search Wikinews Wikinews has related news: 2007 Rugby World Cup: Argentina shock France in tournament opener
* (Spanish) Official Argentina rugby home page
* Argentine rugby union news on Planet Rugby
* (Spanish)Rugby Fun – Excellent Argentine Rugby Website
* (Spanish) Rugbytime – News, Statistics and Results about Argentine Rugby
* (Spanish) Argentine rugby news from El Rugbier
Further…
No contract; limited license
Please make sure that you understand that the information provided here is being provided freely, and that no kind of agreement or contract is created between you and the owners or users of this site, the owners of the servers upon which it is housed, the individual Wikipedia contributors, any project administrators, sysops or anyone else who is in any way connected with this project or sister projects subject to your claims against them directly. You are being granted a limited license to copy anything from this site; it does not create or imply any contractual or extracontractual liability on the part of Wikipedia or any of its agents, members, organizers or other users.
Unless otherwise stated Wikipedia and Wikimedia sites are neither endorsed by nor affiliated with any of the holders of any such rights and as such Wikipedia cannot grant any rights to use any otherwise protected materials.
So, if it really pains everyone that I did not mention Wikipedia I will include it, but Wiki does not actually give a shit from what I read.
And as I do not know exactly who authored or sourced whichever parts of information lifted from Wiki I will have to include every single reference listed in their list of references in case I miss the guy that actually posted it there or his source.
Tell me which you prefer and I would be sure to do it in future.
@Morné (Comment 38) : If wiki doesn’t give a shit then I don’t give a shit.
110%.
@Morné (Comment 38) :
You are being granted a limited license to copy anything from this site; it does not create or imply any contractual or extracontractual liability on the part of Wikipedia or any of its agents, members, organizers or other users.
Unless otherwise stated Wikipedia and Wikimedia sites are neither endorsed by nor affiliated with any of the holders of any such rights and as such Wikipedia cannot grant any rights to use any otherwise protected materials
I reckon THAT gives you enoug permission not to credit the source!!
@McLovin (Comment 39) :
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 40) :
As someone who writes a lot personally I have the world of respect for crediting information or resources used. I will in any and all instances where necessary do this. I simply did not see it necessary in this instance given the Wiki environment and their terms because crediting all the sources they used it would have made my column 10 paragraphs longer and I know how much you guys love that.
I struggle to keep McLovin on a topic after 3 paragraphs!!!
I will never ‘steal’ information or deliberately plagiarise. So if there is anything guys here want me to do for future I am happy to do it and I am not being sarcastic about it either I am totally honest and serious!
I respect their views and beliefs so guys must just let me know and I will accommodate.
@Morné (Comment 38) : Yeah, but it happens once, then time and time again and the lines become fuzzy. It’s like Sharksworld crediting Rugby365 who credit Sharksrugby for their source.
Regardless, the fact is, if you don’t credit a source, you are, by implication, passing the work off as your own.
And if you think crediting the source isn’t really important, you open yourself up to criticism for both your ethics and ability.
All I am saying is respect the ethics if you want to play the game.
Same as rugby, you may not like the laws, but you have to play to them.
@Morné (Comment 41) :
Mv lovin is not the only one!
So you will do what the GUYS want but not the Gals??
@Baldrick (Comment 42) :
So which sources you want me to credit?
The 400 Wiki used to compile the article of which some might have nothing to do with the facts and paragraphs lifted or just Wiki themselves wo does not seemingly give a hoot?
I can credit Google too for getting me to the Wiki source page which contained all the sources.
if you cannot see how ridiculous this will become then I seriously do not know what else to tell you.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 43) :
You are one of the guys!!!
@Morné (Comment 45) :
Morne,
I agree with the ‘conditional offer’.
Allow me to elaborate.
Currently there is not one professional rugby player plying their trad ein Argentina. Not one. It was just before the 2007 WC (or maybe just afterwards) that the Argie Rugby Union had a vote and decided to maintain their amateur code, effectively meaning that if, as an Argentinian, you wanted to play rugby as a profesison you have to play in Europe, SA, or the Antipodes.
Yes, of course they’ve produced some magnificent players but tell me: how many of them plied their trade ion Argentina?
If the offer is therefore not ‘conditional’ then the Argie Rugby Union could pull a SARU and only play local players, which would be in line with their beliefs and current structures as they believe the game should remain amateur.
Now do you really think an amateur player, working a dayjob, would be well-placed to front up against the best professional players in the world?
If this offer was not conditional in them playing the best then it’s simply not workable.
For all the talk of their WC success – only one player in their squad was playing in Argentina.
BTW – having played with loads of American I can confirm that rugby is no closer to taking off there than it was 20 years ago – it simply has very little following and is only really played in the universities.
@Baldrick (Comment 42) :
I think we ALL get the message………….. enough now, PLEASE!!!
@VinChainSaw (Comment 47) :
I have no problem with the offer, in fact I am ecsatic for them and its long overdue.
The fact that it is conditional irks me because if you remove the cosmetics, Arg deserves to play in a major competition more than some current rugby playing nations currently included. Which is why my reference includes that its just a slap in the face in my view of a team deserving much more credit that is given to them.
Do you think that their inclusion in a major tournament like the 3N will change the status of rugby in the country and possibly contribute to it ‘taking off’?
@Bullitt (Comment 2) :
My late father would have enjoyed you. He was always amused at news reports stating that such and such dam was 105% full and that Pietertjie got 103% for mathematics.
@wiLLem (Comment 51) :
You find this amusing??
@Morné (Comment 49) : @VinChainSaw (Comment 47) :
I understand where both of you are coming from…what worries me, as it does Vince, is the ARU are adament about the amateur statis of their
players…they see this as a strength…their best players come out of their strong inter club competitions!
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 52) :
yip!
@Me2 aka Mama Shark (Comment 53) :
Then, of course, they go overseas to earn money! BUT they are still eligible to play for their country, BUT only if their overseas based Clubs will release them.
@Me2 aka Mama Shark (Comment 53) :
Is it something they chose? Or something they have no choice in because they are excluded?
Serious question.
@Morné (Comment 41) : You had me at hello.
Will the Argie participation be reassessed after each year?
Only makes sense to demand they send their best side. No point in having them in the comp if they get klapped by 50+ points every game.
@McLovin (Comment 58) :
Like Italy in the 6N???
The 3N runs mainly in the European off-season?
I dont think it will be an issue at all.
@McLovin (Comment 57) :
@Morné (Comment 59) : They beat Scotland every now and again.
@McLovin (Comment 62) :
So does everyone else!!!
Where is Rob?
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 61) : I’m not so keen on rom-coms but that was a good one.
@McLovin (Comment 64) :
WTF is rom-coms ?? OHHHHH Romantic Comedies..
Cheesy line – but actually good..I wish someone would say that to me…truth is most men run when a woman opens her mouth!
@Morné (Comment 63) : Isn’t he on his way to SA?
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 65) :
Talking about movies – have you seen August Rush – from the info in the mag, I did not want to watch – but as there was nothing else I started watching it – turned out to be one of the better snot en trane movies I have seen in a long time (besides Molly and me)..
I like Kate Hudson rom-coms..
@Morné (Comment 63) :
Check his FB status..might get a hint there..I cannot – someone blocked it..
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 68) :
Could not get onto FB for about a week now…
@Morné (Comment 49) :
Morne,
I agree it’s fantastic news!
do I think this will change the ARU’s stance on the amateur/profesisonal debate – I dont actually. The ARU has shown itself to be every bit as stubborn as SARU and we all know how long you need to lobby to get them to change anything fundamental.
They’re rpoud of their amateur status and seemingly have no plans to change it.
I’ve got no issue with that – except if you end up playing amateurs versus the best profesisonals in the world.
@Morné (Comment 59) :
Italy at least has professional leagues! Just shows how far behind the curve the Argie domestic game is!
@Morné (Comment 60) :
It doesnt actually. The T14 has alreayd played 6 games this year and the 3N isnt even concluded yet… so T14 has pretty much been running since the the start of the 3N.
With the push to start the S14 and thus the 3N later each year it would inevitably clash.
But thats the name of the game these days and clubs need to better manage the periods when they lose their players to international duty in the same manner in which the footie clubs do it.
Sorry Morne, not trying to pick a fight here – just discussing the practicalities of getting this off the ground successfully. There would have to be massive buy-in from the French clubs.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 70) :
I cannot believe a nation will choose to stay amateur if it means they are excluded from World rugby participation???
Surely not?
@VinChainSaw (Comment 72) :
I heard it mention SANZAR will drive the fact to include Arg’s top players in the Super 14 to ensure they are still professionally employed but part of the SANZAR family rather than the European one…
@Morné (Comment 74) :
Sorry, that would or should read the new conference system Super 15.
They want all three nations to have access and the ability to bid for Argie players if they want without being penalised.
@Morné (Comment 69) :
Blocked?
@Morné (Comment 73) :
They did mate. But it wasnt the national team that remained amateur, it was the domestic Argentinian leagues which provide the feeder players that go play profesisonally in Europe.
If they’d barred any of their pro players from playing for the national side I could imagine IRB sanctions.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 76) :
Dunno….
@VinChainSaw (Comment 77) :
Where are some material on that I would love to go read the background and reasoning behind all that?
@Morné (Comment 74) : @Morné (Comment 75) :
Thats a great idea imho.
Would love to see a draft system in the s15 similar to the college drafts in the US for other sports.
Can see a time when all s15 players are thrown into a pool for an IPL type auction.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 67) : Seen August Rush. Better than expected.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 79) :
Well it has been mentioned by the current SANZAR supremo’s so let’s hope they follow through on that.
If only if it is for the sake that I believe SA might actually have more financial resources to get the best Argies!!!!
@Morné (Comment 78) :
Sorry chum, most of what I know about Argentinian rugby was gleamed from an Argie expat that used to work with me.
Interestignly enough they’re trying to get a squad of 40 players together in Argentina that would then play against Tier 2 nations and the “A” sides in comps like the Churchill Cup etc. with the idea being that they increase the depth of the domestic player pool.
Also seems as if there is a real money shortage in Argentinian Rugby. They’ve recently been selling their games to the opposition as they raise more money that way than hosting the games themselves. Recently they had a friendly agaisnt some or other Premiership side and ended up playing in the UK because it was more lucrative.
They have serious issues, money being the biggest and obviously not helped by their administrators that have their heads buried in the sand – in 1973.
Doubtless they produce very, very good players and hopefully this is the start of the turnaround.
@Morné (Comment 81) :
Agreed. And not to mention the more favourable culture and its closer!
@McLovin (Comment 80) : awesome movie. #2 of all time in my book
@VinChainSaw (Comment 82) :
It is sad indeed but as the one thing that happened in the World Cup showed (where they moved one of the biggest soccer matches to televise a RWC match in Argentina and the two don’t clash) shows you that people are interested in winners!!!
Maybe this little boost will give them the funds to start working at grass-roots level there and hopefully they don’t have the same type of administrators that we have in some unions here…
@robdylan (Comment 84) : What’s number 1?
@robdylan (Comment 84) :
Whats number one?
@McLovin (Comment 86) :
Jinx
@VinChainSaw (Comment 47) : And they SUCK.Played a beach game with some students on Camps Bay a while ago.Dudes can just about get a decent pass out.
@robdylan (Comment 84) :
I cannot place one movie ahead of the other…same with music – I have a few alltime favourite songs.
Some movie that is on my list of favourites: Once were Warriors / Schindlers List, Gladiator, Passion of the Christ. When I was young I was a huge ‘carry On” fan! My parents had a video store and us kids use to work there on weekends…so seen about all the Carry Ons.
There was a movie called Birds of Paradise – comedy about a old couple buying a Horse farm – but infact it was a whore farm.. the innuendo’s in that was brilliant – but I have searched the internet sif – cannot locate it..
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 90) : Agree, way too difficult.
Léon was a good flick.
No country of old men & There will be blood are not on my favourite list.
Didn’t quite get what the fuss was about.
@McLovin (Comment 93) :
Never even heard of those..
@McLovin (Comment 92) :
Is that a PG type of movie??
Two of my best in last few years will have to be Once and American History X.
Also quite enjoy cartoon movies and spoofs. Actually my favourites.
Team America: World Police was also pretty cool.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 94) :
You might know it as The Professional. Stars Jean Reno as an assasin that sort of adopts a young girl. Bad guy is Gary Oldman.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 94) :
Léon (might be known by another name) is also a tranetrekker. But good. 
I am Sam
Dead Man walking
Green Mile
Forrest Gump
Chicago
Leaving Vegas (?)
Nell
The Accused
@VinChainSaw (Comment 96) : That’s the one.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 94) : Those other two were nominated for a million oscars.
Shrek is certainly an all time fav.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 95) :
American History X – was brilliant – Edward Norton. not?
@VinChainSaw (Comment 96) :
Oh Yes – I also love Jean Reno’s work
Pulp Fiction
Shawshank Redemption
Resevoir Dogs
Full metal jacket.
Schindler’s list
Silence of the lambs
Hotel Rwanda
To name but a few. In no particular order.
@McLovin (Comment 101) :
And Ice Age – old Sid is a legend!
Iron Man
300
Rocky IV (seriously)
Terminator 2
@McLovin (Comment 100) :
I am not hyped on Oscar winners…sometimes I think its a load of crap – sometimes I think a movie with a low rating is brilliant…smaak verskil!
What I want to do is start a collection of all the movies of the year that won Oscars from the start – I reckon that could be a rather nice collection to have, dont you think?
What was that – Oh Ja – Last king of Scotland was also good
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 104) : Oh yes. Brilliant. I love cartoons.
@McLovin (Comment 105) :
Oh “Champ” with Ricky Scroeder…man that thing made me cry dat ek sommer so ruk!!
Rocky??? “I dsid it for my counstry”
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 106) : Sometimes the Oscars leave me bamboozled too. But those too really didn’t impress me.
Would be some collection.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 108) : Come on daddy there’s no time to sleep (or something like that). I sommer well up.
Have you seen “Nuts” with Barbara Streisand?? She is also brilliant and the Monster – although I am not a Charlize fan..
Beaches
Geez – it seems all the tranetrekers!! LOL
A knights tale
A Few Good men – awsome – Jack is great!
And Karate Kid.
@McLovin (Comment 110) :
Champ!! Champ!! wake up!!! Champ…???!!
@McLovin (Comment 112) :
I Think Morne-San is not impressed with us…turning his novel thread into a movie crit!!
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 111) : Not seen Nuts but Beaches yes. Pass me a hanky.
milliondollar baby
Bridges of Madison County
Mississipi
Magnolia
Fried Green Tomatoes
I think I am going way before your time here!!
Love most of Tom Cruise’s movies. Not such a fan of Tom the man but he made quite a few good movies.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 116) : Close but not yet.
Seen or heard of those. Milliondollar baby I have still to watch.
@McLovin (Comment 117) :
And then GI Jane…best phrase by Demi out of that movie “suck my d*ck!”
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 119) :
Not seen that one. Might have to give it a look.
@McLovin (Comment 120) :
Sound rougher than in the context of the movie!
I was about 9 or so when I watched “Butterfly” by Pia Zadora (it was almost X-rated those days)..I nearly had heart failure!
And then My Mom said we must watch Lady Chatterly’s Lover…and then ask questions.. 
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 121) :
At least you got to see movies. I just got handed ‘wat seuns wil weet’ and that was the end of it. Caused more confusion than good. 
@McLovin (Comment 122) :
Dont worry – we got the “Wat meisies wil weet” too!
I have actually just ordered “Waar kom ek vandaan”…apparently accordingly to the “Life CoacH” which gave a birds and bees talk at school my six year old should have known ALL the facts by now..
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 123) : I still don’t know all the facts.
@McLovin (Comment 124) :
i can send you the book “Mamma het ‘n eier gele”….
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 125) : Mamma het n eier gele?
Cheech and Chong… glorious movies those.
Did you know the Ozzies also watched ‘The gods must be crazy’ back in the day?
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 121) :
Taught you well did your old lady?
Thought all Afrikaans girls of that generation were meant to get a surprise on their wedding night, of hoe?
@McLovin (Comment 126) :
Its also an “informative” booklet for small children… very graphic ‘stokmannetjies” – The parents are telling all these silly stories about where babies come from and then the kids correct them and telling tem the truth…even have some of the kama Sutra in stok mannetjie pictures…
@VinChainSaw (Comment 128) :
My Mom grew up in the hippy era too…
My mom is quite an extraordinay woman…she did things how she thought it would work.. 
not according to the broederbond’s rules.. 
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 129) :
Montenegro
The lovers on the bridge
Cinema Paradiso
The Mission
A fish called Wanda, esp the John Cleese talking Russian scene.
The Party
@Salmonoid (Comment 133) : That was a good one.
My top 3 are:
1) Dune
2) August Rush
3) Once
Juno also near the very top of my favs.
@McLovin (Comment 136) : …and Milk.
@McLovin (Comment 137) :
MILK???
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 138) : Story about Harvey Milk. Very good imho. Check it out.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 138) : Sean Penn won the Oscar for best actor for this. One I agree with.
Which reminds me of another excellent Sean Penn movie.
Mystic River.
Shawshank Redemption
Natural Born Killers
@McLovin (Comment 140) : @McLovin (Comment 141) :
As you can see I like Sean Penn (I am Sam, Dead Man walking that I have mentiond.)
I will sure check it out!
Shit I truly am out of circulation with movies!!
@Pokkel (Comment 142) :
What was that movie with those boys who got violated when they were younger and then killed their attackers when they grew up – almost ganster movie..?
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 144) :
I think it was “Sleepers” or something..
@Pokkel (Comment 142) : No, It’s the movie with Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman where they are locked up in a prison and the Tim Robbins character escapes with all the wardens money
@Pokkel (Comment 146) :
HHAHAHAHAH – jou dommie!!! Ek het jou maar net getag omdat ek met jou wou praat – ek weet waaroor SR gaan.
Ek het van iets heel anders gepraat…
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 147) : You enjoying yourself at my expence today…..lag maar lekker…jou dag sal kom.
@Pokkel (Comment 148) :
If you remember correctly ( thats now if your mind’s not playing tricks on you like the age mistake
) I was the target on many occasions in the past…and I also said that your days would come… 
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 149) : Ek weet…ons maak maar altyd beurte om ons name gat te maak
@Pokkel (Comment 150) :
at least we can laugh at ourselves!! Or at least I can..
I agree (albeit sadly) that the US is no where ready to be a rugby superpower. However, I do have to say that USA Rugby seems to be trying out a new advertisment campaign (although so far I’ve only seen it one Setanta) as well as a bunch of outreach programs to children and schools so it will be interesting to see what sort of interest it generates here.
@Milissa (Comment 152) : hello milissa. good to see you are still around. i know we don’t have freddy anymore, but our team is still decent even when they badly like saturday.