Morné

Why Plum deserves the boot


Written by Morné Nortier (Morné)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks on 4 Mar 2010 at 12:46
Tagged with : ,

If John Plumtree does not come back with at least 2, preferably 3 victories on the road and end in the top 8 of the Super 14 log, he must get the boot.

That ladies and gentlemen is the bottom line in professional sport.

Forget sentiment, forget emotions, history, tradition or whatever we as supporters love to bring up to defend our teams. The reality is rugby is a professional sport and is measured through results achieved.

We can (and do) analyse teams to the smallest detail, raising (very valid) points on possible reasons why teams, or our teams, are not performing to their potential, or the way I look at it, performing to expectations.

You see ‘expecting’ specific results is what it is all about – potential is just a gob-wolly term that more describes our emotion or emotional attachment to a team than realistic expectation.

And expecting something is measured against specifics, or constants in business (of which rugby is one).

For example, if an organisation has X, Y and Z you expect a return on result or investment of A, B and C. Organisations however, as with rugby, differs, so even in the same industry (rugby) some unions might only have X and Z, so if they achieve A, B and C it is a massive bonus and they performed ‘above’ expectation.

But there is, or should be a definite break-even point, which will then serve as an indication whether the organisation, or union are delivering as expected, delivering above expectations, or delivering below expectations.

A practical example would be to compare the organisations or unions, Sharks and Cheetahs.

Compare the budgets, compare the resources, compare the markets, etc., etc. Pretty much what is done in business, and then judge results based on this.

A union like the Sharks for instance, with a budget to buy the best to not only manage (coaches and administrators) the organisation, but also deliver a product (players), is realistically expected to deliver the best.

Of course we need to judge and analyse industries in accordance to the environments they operate in, and in this case, the industry is sport.

Now sport is unpredictable to some extent, but not completely. In any organisation, including rugby there is a clear indication or measurable standard or scale which reads – if you buy the best, you expect the best.

Players and coaches can be measured on their ability, it is therefore not unrealistic to expect the best in their trade, to operate better than the average Joe’s out there from which they distanced themselves thanks to how they performed in their trades historically and their achievements.

So quite simply, if Plumtree is not able, for WHATEVER reason, to have the best in the business operate to the best of their ability – he does not belong there.

With the budget the Sharks have, it is not unrealistic for the board and investors of the union to expect specific results. How else can Plumtree, or Straeuli realistically expect to walk into the board meeting at the end of the Super 14 campaign to table budget projections to the board and investors for the coming season and expect to get it?

In professional sport you either deliver on expectation, or you get shown the door.



137 Comments

  • can’t really disagree at the moment.

  • Comment 1, posted at 04.03.10 12:55:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • So quite simply, if Plumtree is not able, for WHATEVER reason, to have the best in the business operate to the best of their ability – he does not belong there.

    Perfect summery

  • Comment 2, posted at 04.03.10 12:55:17 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Still not sure that it is all the coach’s fault. But I see what you are getting at.

  • Comment 3, posted at 04.03.10 13:13:33 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • “if you want to create a championship winning team,start with your backroom team”( forget the name of the coach who said that).

  • Comment 4, posted at 04.03.10 13:18:10 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 4) : doubt it was anyone involved with the sharks (admin ..or add minus :?: )

  • Comment 5, posted at 04.03.10 13:25:15 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 3) : no – making it all the coach’s fault is oversimplifying the issue… still, I don’t think the coach is helping at the moment. He’s definitely part of the problem.

  • Comment 6, posted at 04.03.10 13:33:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • I think that the Sharks are in serious need of a backline coach!

  • Comment 7, posted at 04.03.10 13:35:35 by Bump Reply

    BumpSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Bump (Comment 7) : last time I checked we had 3 :)

  • Comment 8, posted at 04.03.10 13:39:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • Sorry Morne cant agree with this article.
    Its not Plums fault that rory missed 5 kicks against the Cheetahs-after 100% the week before Its not Plums fault that Brown is a poor ref Those are factors that if it was a business-not that Sharks are not-would have to factor into any decision. Both instances would be like the building catching fire things beyond your control and both games were like that
    They should have been on tour with 8 points and this article would not have been written and the sahrks written off.
    If Plum is a bad coach why have the boks used him to sort out problems as opposed to Rassie and Naka-who if i follow your logic is a good coach!
    Things might not be hunky dory in the tank-according to what i read in the blogs on this site you guys know more than me-but to put the blame on Plum is nonsense

  • Comment 9, posted at 04.03.10 13:39:42 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 8) : I think he means a decent one. I don’t think HRE qualifies after coaching Westville for the last how many years!

    Think Eddie Jones.

  • Comment 10, posted at 04.03.10 13:43:24 by Oubaas2009 Reply

    SportbillyVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Oubaas2009 (Comment 10) : rob dylan might be referring to Bashford, Boyd & HRE…

  • Comment 11, posted at 04.03.10 13:50:07 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 6) : The thing is Rob that Plum will most likely be the fall guy and get the boot. But what will happen to the individuals that are part of the problem that will remain? Chances are nothing. If Plum goes then a complete overhaul of the Management structure is required. I know it might set us back, but maybe it is our only choice.

  • Comment 12, posted at 04.03.10 14:00:12 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 8) : Didn’t you used to support the Lions on keo about 6 years ago?

  • Comment 13, posted at 04.03.10 14:01:50 by Oubaas2009 Reply

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  • @Megatron (Comment 11) : Megatron might be spot on :)

  • Comment 14, posted at 04.03.10 14:02:45 by robdylan Reply
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  • If John Plumtree does not come back with at least 2, preferably 3 victories on the road and end in the top 8 of the Super 14 log, he must get the boot.

    That ladies and gentlemen is the bottom line in professional sport.

    Then why is Erasmus still employed by the Stormers?

  • Comment 15, posted at 04.03.10 14:10:03 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • From a business principle view heads must roll but Fattmann has a point too. Plum needs his players to step up but can Plum inspire then to do it?

  • Comment 16, posted at 04.03.10 14:11:32 by billy Reply

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  • @billy (Comment 16) : if i knew the answer to that question i would take the lotto ticket on friday
    the question I have here is should the players need motivating There comes a time in your life when you need to prove to yourself that you still have it and i suspect for the players that time has come

  • Comment 17, posted at 04.03.10 14:19:50 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 9) :

    I did not really want to comment on this article but consider the following;

    As much as it is the administrators responsibility to appoint the correct person as coach, the coach and his team controls the assets and effectively the product of the union.

    Plum with his team, which includes all his backroom staff from physio, to bus driver, are responsible to get the product (team) to perform at optimum level.

    Plum, the coach, manages this process and the people involved.

    It is his responsibility to ‘sell’ his plan, structure and phylosophy to his management (the union), which forms part of his appointment and all relevant KPI’s.

    It is also his responsibility to manage the process and backroom staff of this plan or structure to deliver the results.

    It is his responsibility to also manage the players to deliver on this plan.

    From a resource point of view the union, or his employers give him what he requires according to his plan he sold them.

    This includes a massive chequebook, facilities and tools to implement and execute this plan.

    It then comes down to Plum, and his backoffice staff to firstly, acquire the resources (players) they believe necessary to execute this plan. This together with succession and development plans to ensure growth and continuity as well as a back-up plan (depth).

    Secondly, it is Plum and his back office staff’s responsibility to create an environment for acquired or existing resources to operate (read train and play) at optimum levels (to the best of their ability), as well as ensuring his back up structures (depth, age-group level teams and players and academy) are also operating at maximum effeciency.

    Another responsibility of this coach, Plum, is to identify and rectify any possibly threat to success of his plan or structures, this include internal management (support staff and coaches, either lack of or disruptive influences), and players.

    Quite simply, if neither of them buys into the plan he has, they should not be part of the plan.

    You see coaches today are not the guys 20 years ago that used to make us run out hills, steps or pull tyres with opfok sessies anymore – these guys are fully fledged professionals who manage processes and people.

    So either as a professional he is able to identify, implement and execute a plan and philosophy effectively, or he is not.

    This includes making tough business and rugby decisions.

    If he needs extra resources needed to do this, he must incorporate it, similarly, if factors (players specifically) threatens the success of this plan, or does not buy into it, they cannot be part of it.

    We must let go of sentiment in rugby – it is a result driven business.

  • Comment 18, posted at 04.03.10 14:20:59 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 18) : :?: :?: :?: :?:

    I did not really want to comment on this article

    Did someone else post it under your name? :razz:

  • Comment 19, posted at 04.03.10 14:23:31 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Fattmann (Comment 17) : Good point, if ever BMT was needed its on Saturday.

    @KSA Shark © (Comment 19) : LOL

  • Comment 20, posted at 04.03.10 14:30:13 by billy Reply

    billyVodacom Cup player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 19) : i am telling you – the force is hard at work :mrgreen:

  • Comment 21, posted at 04.03.10 14:31:15 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 18) :

    Nah it is just a topic I know will get a lot of people riled up, and me commenting on it and expanding on the view might just make it worse ;)

  • Comment 22, posted at 04.03.10 14:32:18 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 22) :

    We have no problem with people getting riled up about RUGBY. :lol:

  • Comment 23, posted at 04.03.10 14:39:00 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 22) : Not if you keep that pic on your profile….

  • Comment 24, posted at 04.03.10 14:41:52 by billy Reply

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  • morne, i assume you have proof that plumtree hasn’t requested replacements for personnel lost over the last few years. also i suppose he is to blame for the flyhalf stuff up that has probably been the biggest disrupter of the team. as we have seen our forward pack hasn’t really been that dreadful. the link between them and the backline has. i am sure he is responsible for albert leaving and mostert’s injury that has left us vulnerable at lock.

  • Comment 25, posted at 04.03.10 14:53:32 by try time Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 18) : it isn’t plums mandate to make sure the feeder systems are in order. i think you have the wrong man in your target. aim for the fat lawyer walking the halls of absa stadium.

  • Comment 26, posted at 04.03.10 14:55:26 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 25) :

    Let’s start here…

    Are all those things his responsibility as coach or not?

  • Comment 27, posted at 04.03.10 14:55:38 by Morné Reply
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  • Why are the budgets compared? Because the two Unions think and act differently. In that case, and given the argument about coaches, the CEO of the Cheetahs should be fired.

    Next, you simply cannot compare a business model to a sports model.

    The Sharks are a very successful (financial) union. So they are obviously doing something right there.

    In business, you have a lot more control over the factors that influence you than in sport, especially in a team sport.

    So by your reckoning Morne, should every company that struggles because of the economic downturn, or the Russian Rouble Collapse, or war in Iraq, start firing people?

  • Comment 28, posted at 04.03.10 14:56:33 by Baldrick Reply

    BaldrickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @try time (Comment 26) :

    It is not???

    You reckon it is a lawyers job to look after rugby matters such as that?

    Then I am not surprised at the results at all.

  • Comment 29, posted at 04.03.10 14:57:03 by Morné Reply
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  • Jeez three losses and bye bye – talk about jumping the gun – think of the Bulls previous seasons and the Crusaders – traditionally slow starters but championship teams…

    Rubbish article Morne – it reminds me of a typical Bok fan – two sides bullshit depening on weather the column shows win or lost

  • Comment 30, posted at 04.03.10 14:58:51 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 28) :

    Seems to be working perfectly in most professional sports around the world except rugby doesn’t it?

    You dont deliver as a manager, you get fired – simple.

    And yes, people did get fired and lost their jobs over the recession.

    But we are not talking recession here.

    And we are talking about the Sharks, not the Cheetahs. They have a lot more resources to ensure success than the Cheetahs and that is the point.

    As far as the Cheetahs goes if you want my opinion then yes Harold Verster should be fired for not cashing in, and developing the resources for his coaches on the back of their 4 or 5 year Currie Cup success run.

  • Comment 31, posted at 04.03.10 14:59:57 by Morné Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 30) : 3 losses this year,last year CC semi, last year’s S14….

  • Comment 32, posted at 04.03.10 15:01:05 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 30) :

    So do we wait for 4 losses, 5 losses, 8, 10, 13?

    The article starts with a sentence that says; ‘If…’

  • Comment 33, posted at 04.03.10 15:01:35 by Morné Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 28) : funnily enough this is what the struggling companies usually do. Maybe not immediately and as a first savings resort but it is always on the cards.

  • Comment 34, posted at 04.03.10 15:02:35 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 9) : i’m with you on this one. the sharks have been unlucky. brown was shocking in game one, rory in game two, never mind kaplan going off with the runs to put that fool pro on. add to that steve meyer, ruan, mostert. i think plum isn’t squeaky clean in this mess, but he isn’t the head orchestrator.

  • Comment 35, posted at 04.03.10 15:04:54 by try time Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 27) : no adolf is the recruiter. plum has to make do with what adolf supplies him.

  • Comment 36, posted at 04.03.10 15:06:04 by try time Reply

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  • Okay I am out though.

    Cheers gents, here is hoping they turn it around this weekend.

  • Comment 37, posted at 04.03.10 15:06:45 by Morné Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 30) :

    Remember the Stormers lost their first 3 games in 2008 and still ended 5th on the log??

    (I just had to throw that in somewhere) :mrgreen: :twisted:

  • Comment 38, posted at 04.03.10 15:07:00 by wpw Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 36) :

    And Plum has not input/say in this?

    Damn if that is true, he negotiated a kak deal for himself.

    Cheers.

  • Comment 39, posted at 04.03.10 15:07:49 by Morné Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 32) : any coach would use his boks for a semi, how did he know his boks were burnt out? as senior players they should have realised they would let the team down. maybe plum is to blame for trusting them.

  • Comment 40, posted at 04.03.10 15:09:22 by try time Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 39) : he can request, doesn’t mean streulli is going to provide. all plum has are what are currently under sharks contract.

  • Comment 41, posted at 04.03.10 15:10:53 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 35) :

    Dude, surely you can’t blame everyone else for your current mess!!

    The ref??

    Is the Sharks the only team in the S14 with decisions that go against them??

  • Comment 42, posted at 04.03.10 15:12:39 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 42) : i have actually avoided blaming the ref in the past, and this is only the second time i mention keith brown. i have felt had the sharks backline been better the ref wouldn’t have been a factor. but it doesn’t mean the refs must get let off. they did play a big part in both the first two losses. even a shark hater couldn’t say pro and keith brown were consistent.

  • Comment 43, posted at 04.03.10 15:16:47 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 40) : this is one of quite a few losses that leads to current lack of faith so to speak.

    as far as I remember both Bissie and Adi were injured during Griquas game and rushed into the starting line.

  • Comment 44, posted at 04.03.10 15:18:33 by rekinek Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 38) : chiefs lost first 3 last year and ended up second.

  • Comment 45, posted at 04.03.10 15:19:36 by rekinek Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 36) : I reckon Plum is far more guilty of not using what Dolf has provided than the other way round. You can’t keep buying yourself out of shit.

  • Comment 46, posted at 04.03.10 15:23:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 44) : and johan muller’s arm was also not right.

  • Comment 47, posted at 04.03.10 15:24:36 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 47) : came to bite us.

  • Comment 48, posted at 04.03.10 15:31:01 by rekinek Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 46) : ok rob so when ruan got injured last year and frans had to play ten, that was plums fault. had we sufficient quality depth at flyhalf we may have had a slightly more favourable super 14 last year. had our boks performed as expected by the coach in the cc we would have been in another final. .ludeke never had his boks let him down. this year had the alberts ludik and flyhalf situation been sorted out by dolf sooner then i feel the team would have been far better settled. i am not plums number one fan, but i definitely think he is getting undue flack here.

  • Comment 49, posted at 04.03.10 15:34:26 by try time Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 18) : Again i disagree but lets follow your thinking to the conclusion and take Rory as an example and say the time has come for Plum to get rid of him. He cant just fire him He may choose not to select him but the Sharks will still be faced with his salary bill for the balance of the contract
    So they pay him to sit on his butt and carry tackle bags
    Regarding te plan and structure he has sold it to the union and they have bought into it and it has yielded a degree of fruit-first cc win in 12 years so how bad can the plan be-It need refining but here i must ask a question from you would you rather have a side that wins without scoring tries or a side that loses but runs in tries?
    ANd if you were a fair journalist you would agree that the home games that were lost were issues beyond Plum’s control-you could argue that in the cheetahs game Ruan should have taken over kicking at the poles after Rory missed his 3rd attempt cept for one thing Ruan is still recovering from the knee op and cant kick for posts just now

    “From a resource point of view the union, or his employers give him what he requires according to his plan he sold them”
    He has by and large the best players one on one in the positions-maybe one or 2 weaknesses inside centre and F/H but for the most part he has it covered
    “Secondly, it is Plum and his back office staff’s responsibility to create an environment for acquired or existing resources to operate (read train and play) at optimum levels (to the best of their ability), as well as ensuring his back up structures (depth, age-group level teams and players and academy) are also operating at maximum effeciency Quite simply, if neither of them buys into the plan he has, they should not be part of the plan.”
    Do you have evidence that this is not happening-not hearsay but actual evidence because if so lets have it.
    I have a source close to the camp-same one that gave me the team- and as far as he is concerned the “unhappiness” with plum is B/S
    I suspect Morne that your article is more born out of frustration-which i understand-than actual fact
    at the end of the day it how you define success

  • Comment 50, posted at 04.03.10 15:40:23 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 50) : i don’t understand. so he can run on the field, get tackled and tackle but not kick for posts.

  • Comment 51, posted at 04.03.10 15:43:11 by rekinek Reply
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  • just a simple example – Plumtree is using Willem Alberts at 7? Come on guys, I predicted this before the first game of the season – Plumtree doesn’t have what it takes. The Sharks is a shadow of the team it deserves to be and this is not good for South African rugby. I hope you recover and knock a few teams over to the Bulls benefit

  • Comment 52, posted at 04.03.10 15:46:03 by eckard Reply

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  • @eckard (Comment 52) : alberts needs game time, deysel deserves a rest, and ryan is the only player breaking the advantage line. it isn’t brain science.

  • Comment 53, posted at 04.03.10 15:48:14 by try time Reply

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  • waratahs also have a good lineout, alberts offers an extra jumper, whereas deysel isn’t as good.

  • Comment 54, posted at 04.03.10 15:49:14 by try time Reply

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  • @rekinek (Comment 51) : Knee op and the movement in the instep kick puts strain on that part of the knee takes a bit to recover
    maybe next week or the week after

  • Comment 55, posted at 04.03.10 15:49:22 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 50) :

    The market for acquiring and selling players these days are actually quite dynamic – so no, if you put a player in the market, or are in the market for a player, there is no reason any player sits and ‘works out his contract by carrying tackle bags’.

    Since 2007, the Sharks team has been on a majority downward curve, not upward. Yes there was the success in 2008 of the Currie Cup, but at senior level that is the sole measure of success in almost 3 seasons.

    There has been no consolidation, or none that I can see, no succession plans implemented and no plans or structures implemented to ensure future growth or development. If anything, if problems hit the Sharks, they seem to try and buy themselves out of trouble which again, to me, is a management issue (Plum).

    I am not going to speculate and quote sources close to the team – I am not Gavin Rich, but let me ask you this – does the current Sharks team look a happy bunch to you? Plum walking out on pressers, John not even bothering to pitch up etc. (personallye experienced this).

    Of course I am frustrated with the Sharks.

    Also, I have said many times Plum is not a bad coach, he is just not a head coach.

    If Plum is not the MAIN man (call him DOR, manager, head coach, senior professional coach or whatever) to make this union work, to take responsibility for what is essentially, that person’s job to do (all that I mentioned), then get someone who can.

    I have said for 3 weeks now the Sharks’ problem is not people or resources – it is putting them together into a winning combination – and to my mind, Plum is not the man for that.

  • Comment 56, posted at 04.03.10 15:51:30 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 56) : again you say plum does the buying. he doesn’t. he asks for players and dolf makes the call. dolf is the guy you have your beef with, not plum.

  • Comment 57, posted at 04.03.10 15:53:31 by try time Reply

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  • it is like blaming the tea lady for the shit coffee you get, but it is the buying department buying koffiehuis.

  • Comment 58, posted at 04.03.10 15:55:39 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 53) :

    If only Ryan passed the ball more the Sharks would more than likely have beaten the Cheaters and been midtable by now.

  • Comment 59, posted at 04.03.10 15:56:31 by wpw Reply
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  • @try time (Comment 57) :

    You HAVE to have control over your resources.

    Either Plum sold himself into a very shit deal, or he has no idea how to put a plan or structures together to ensure success.

    Why accept responsibility as coach if you have no control of who you coach?

    If this is the case then Plum should definately not be there.

  • Comment 60, posted at 04.03.10 15:56:48 by Morné Reply
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  • Okay another meeting, gone till much later.

  • Comment 61, posted at 04.03.10 15:57:42 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 60) : the tea lady doesn’t have control of the resources, but she does what she can cause a job is a job.

  • Comment 62, posted at 04.03.10 16:00:07 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 62) :

    Dude you then have a very warped idea of what a coach is responsible for.

    Any coach that accepts terms like that is a damn fool.

  • Comment 63, posted at 04.03.10 16:01:15 by Morné Reply
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  • If we think Plum has problems have a look at the SA men’s hockey team in the WC.

    Lost 4-2 against Spain, then lost 6-4 to the Poms and finally totally humiliated by the Aussies today: 12-0!

  • Comment 64, posted at 04.03.10 16:39:23 by rhineshark Reply
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  • Go Plummo Go (away)!!

  • Comment 65, posted at 04.03.10 16:43:13 by Jarson's (X + V) Reply
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  • @try time (comment 53) it’s not rocket science either, if you want to be a successful team, you pick specialists in specialist positions – Alberts is promoted to his level of incompetence by using him as a flanker, he was good last year because he was allowed to play the position at which he is best at – no 8. The allrounders belongs on the bench. This is not schools rugby, its the toughest provincial competition in the world

  • Comment 66, posted at 04.03.10 17:08:28 by eckard Reply

    eckardUnder 19 player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 63) : hey Morne read and weep
    here

  • Comment 67, posted at 04.03.10 17:09:32 by Fattmann Reply
    Competition Winner
    FattmannCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Fattmann (Comment 67) :

    From that article which we are not allowed to post on Sharksworld.

    Instead, Plumtree was offered a three-year extension to his contract, something that should be seen as good news to those who have worked with Plumtree and know just what a good coach he really is.

    By offering Plumtree an extension, the board of the Sharks Rugby Union appear to be acknowledging that the real fault for the current failures lies with the players, who have not played like a unit since the Springboks returned from Tri-Nations duty at a time when the Sharks, without their stars, were topping the Currie Cup log last September.

    VERY intersting that. I didn’t realise that that was when we started losing.

  • Comment 68, posted at 04.03.10 17:13:44 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 68) : is it ok to post the link? its in the public domain

  • Comment 69, posted at 04.03.10 17:20:46 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 69) : ja, it’s fine. I wasn’t aware we had an embargo from sport24…? KSA?

  • Comment 70, posted at 04.03.10 17:37:43 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 68) : I smell smoke… no, wait… I smell a smokeSCREEN.

  • Comment 71, posted at 04.03.10 17:46:25 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 67) :

    Hehe,

    Hey dude I do not work for the Sharks, I merely give an opinion.

    Neither do I really suffer any ills any decisions might incur, as I am not a Sharks supporter.

    @try time (Comment 62) :

    Bet you if coffee or tea was that company’s business, the story would be different.

  • Comment 72, posted at 04.03.10 17:51:20 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • And contrary to what this article might suggest, I am actually a fan of Plum.

    BTW, open question, what is Plum’s coaching pedigree specifically as head coach?

  • Comment 73, posted at 04.03.10 17:53:33 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 56) : who would you want as coach then??

  • Comment 74, posted at 04.03.10 17:54:43 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • Lastly, TT and Fattman;

    I go back to when the Lions appointed their new coach.

    A certain Heyneke Meyer applied.

    He was rejected, because of all the backroom people or management he wanted to bring on board with him.

    This suggest Meyer came to the Lions with a plan, a plan which said; ‘Okay guys, for me to fix this shit this is what I propose’

    Lions said; ‘No thanks Meyer, you bring too much additional management, we will take Dicky who brings none but his academy’.

    Point is, when you take the position up as the head honcho of a team, you take responsibility for that team and union across all player levels.

    Perhaps Plum did not do this, perhaps he was not afforded the opportunity to do this but fact is, he accepted and is in the job to do it (get results).

    Coaching has changed dramatically gents, and success waits for no-one.

  • Comment 75, posted at 04.03.10 18:00:07 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 74) :

    A lot of names have been thrown about, I suggested the Sharks problems should be sorted out by a Sharks man – even if only in the interim or in a caretaker capacity.

    I would seriously look at Sean as part of your coaching setup, but I would also then take a good couple of months to hunt for a DOR.

    The ‘guy’ I suggested many times to bring it all together.

    Perhaps even keep Plum, but you need a person in the capacity of DOR, a sounding board for Plum, a stickler for structures and procedures.

    Let the coaches coach to their strengths, Plum forwards experts, Sean/Campo backs expert and get a manager to manage the whole process.

    It is the way to go in modern rugby in my view.

    So question really is, who do you guys want as DOR???

  • Comment 76, posted at 04.03.10 18:03:49 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 74) :

    Plum in fact in my view is an asset to Sharks rugby, a massive compliment to the union, its traditions and ethics, a hard man.

    I would not actually ‘get rid’ of him, but I would most definitely redefine roles and structures.

  • Comment 77, posted at 04.03.10 18:05:24 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • Perhaps the concept of ‘coaches’ and ‘managers’ in rugby needs to be redefined?

    because it is effectively what I am eluding to.

  • Comment 78, posted at 04.03.10 18:07:58 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • But the ‘manager’ or DOR should be no-less a rugby man than the coach(es) themselves either.

    Okay no I am done, need to get a drink, it is about 35 degrees here.

  • Comment 79, posted at 04.03.10 18:08:51 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 74) : like your nic – very sharkslike :lol:

  • Comment 80, posted at 04.03.10 18:16:39 by rekinek Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 71) :

    Maybe this is it.

    “The Sharks board have agreed to extend the contract by three years and we would not have done that if we did not have every faith in him as a coach,” said Van Zyl.

    “Plum only has to agree to the terms now but we obviously want him to stay. A good coach does not become a bad coach overnight.”

    The term is that if he doesn’t comeback from the tour with 4/5 wins then they have the right to nuliffy his contract WHENEVER they want in the future. :razz:

  • Comment 81, posted at 04.03.10 18:18:09 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 81) : :razz:
    and performance requirements are inherent to any employment situation :lol:

    it is actually interesting because in SA law if you want to fire somebody for poor performance you first need to counsel him and attempt to help the poor employee to improve – wonder what would they do in Plum’s case. Weeklty talks with Rudolph ? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 82, posted at 04.03.10 18:22:05 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 82) :

    he had his 1st councilling session before he left on tour, His two months performance improvement windo will all but be over when he comes back from tour. :razz:

    I need to clarify

    I am taking the piss. I don’t particularly want Plum fired, I just want them (KZNRU) to do what is needed to get the Sharks back to winning ways.

  • Comment 83, posted at 04.03.10 18:26:41 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 72) : I wouldnt have figured you for a sharks man but i suspect you and Keo are on first name terms!!!!! @KSA Shark © (Comment 81) : There is a performance clause in the contract however Plum is debating benefits

  • Comment 84, posted at 04.03.10 18:28:46 by Fattmann Reply
    Competition Winner
    FattmannCurrie Cup player
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 80) : thanks

    @Morné (Comment 77) : I also think that the union needs to cut some of the “deadwood” and try to get a bit more depth especially at lock and midfield.

  • Comment 85, posted at 04.03.10 18:29:51 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 83) : do you remember – a year ago we had this huge fights here (oops sorry …. discussions ;-) and so many people argued how good plum was and how useless dicky was :lol:

    i’m sure they have it all covered:
    the last stage of counselling is a camp :mrgreen:

  • Comment 86, posted at 04.03.10 18:33:27 by rekinek Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 85) : i’ve been to a corporate sports breakfast in which Ian Mac thanked the Rugby Museum for making him available for the morning :mrgreen:

  • Comment 87, posted at 04.03.10 18:35:13 by rekinek Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 83) : on the serious note. I also don’t think disposing of Plum is the answer. Players also need to step up, but …
    there is a lack of flair. it seems like the sharks rugby went from over flaired in dick’s times to overstructured under plum.
    they won 2008 CC because they were still in “in-between” stage .

    Plum is forwards man – he really needs to concentrate on forwards going forward and get a proper coach for the backs.

  • Comment 88, posted at 04.03.10 18:39:02 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 86) : :mrgreen:

    Anyway i’m outta here. Gran Tourismo 5 is busy installing on the PS 3. :cool:

  • Comment 89, posted at 04.03.10 18:39:33 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 85) :

    HOW CAN YOU GET LOST? That fishbowl is so small.

    :razz:

  • Comment 90, posted at 04.03.10 18:40:24 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 89) : since when do you need to install stuff on a console? Don’t you just stick the disk in?

  • Comment 91, posted at 04.03.10 18:43:34 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 89) : @robdylan (Comment 91) : i have no idea what you 2 talking about but have fun :razz:

  • Comment 92, posted at 04.03.10 18:50:54 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 84) :

    Haha,

    We have tea every Thursday…

  • Comment 93, posted at 04.03.10 18:57:48 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • But on that fact, don’t you find opinions far removed emotionally from the team or union more balanced?

    Or is there a Bulls mentality that everyone that is not a Shark is out to get you?

  • Comment 94, posted at 04.03.10 18:59:08 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • I am talking opinions in general of course, not mine – I talk rubbish and get paid for it daily.

  • Comment 95, posted at 04.03.10 18:59:46 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 90) : ha ha, a saffa in france seems pretty lost to me… i have even had to resort to making my own biltong

  • Comment 96, posted at 04.03.10 19:09:02 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 96) : where in France?

  • Comment 97, posted at 04.03.10 19:13:54 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 97) :

    Hey Methos and his boet and some other rugby friends are also in France – we should hook him up!!!

  • Comment 98, posted at 04.03.10 19:16:56 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • i can go home now. chatta later :razz:

  • Comment 99, posted at 04.03.10 19:24:19 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 99) : buh bye

  • Comment 100, posted at 04.03.10 19:25:30 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 97) : Aix-en-Provence

  • Comment 101, posted at 04.03.10 20:14:48 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • the arcticle talks about forgetting sentiment…..

    then smit plays

    contradiction in terms?

  • Comment 102, posted at 04.03.10 21:33:57 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 101) : nice part of the world. Spent a (very little) bit of time in Marseilles a few years back.

  • Comment 103, posted at 04.03.10 21:49:05 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Rhineshark
    Interesting that u mention the SA hockey team. Did you know they are the only AMATEUR team taking part in the WC? None of our players are paid to play the game and every one of them have day jobs.
    We are ranked 13th (before todays game) and our highest ranking ever was 10th.
    We are overachieving imho.

  • Comment 104, posted at 04.03.10 22:00:38 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 104) :

    Context…

    Beautiful thing isn’t it?

  • Comment 105, posted at 04.03.10 22:21:36 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • I,ve decided to stop supprting the sharks just going to cut my losses right now ,this is the same old story again and again,since Ian mac left we,ve had about five coaches ,five very different coaches at that and it,s always the same problem ,the sharks either choke or underperform ,this is either a sharks rugby mentality problem or or the problem is brain van zyl ,im betting on brain van zyl his the constant here ,till van zyl leaves i,ll be lookoing for a new team to suppport ,not the stormers they,ve also got an executive problem

  • Comment 106, posted at 05.03.10 00:03:27 by zvision10 Reply

    zvision10Under 21 player
     
  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 30) :

    Sharks have lost 7 of their last 8 games (Super-14).

    They are packed with top quality players and have a checkbook big enough to buy internationals at a moment’s notice.

    Time to panic is now.

  • Comment 107, posted at 05.03.10 00:22:52 by fyndraai Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    fyndraaiTeam captain
     
  • @zvision10 (Comment 106) : And if your kids don’t do well in school – are you going to stop supporting them as well?

  • Comment 108, posted at 05.03.10 01:02:42 by MysticShark Reply
    Competition Winner
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  • @robdylan (Comment 91) :

    Nope! the bigger games such as GT install to the hard drive before play.

    Consoles are no longer just consoles. PS3′s Wii’s all come with wireless internet connectivity, PS3 can be used as a Blu Ray player with full surround sound…. the list goes on.

  • Comment 109, posted at 05.03.10 07:00:10 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 105) :

    Context. :lol:

    THANK Fook the Fat Opel only reads this site and doesn’t comment. :oops:

  • Comment 110, posted at 05.03.10 07:02:37 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 105) : @KSA Shark © (Comment 110) :

    It was a response to Rhineshark’s earlier comment!! :roll: :evil:

    #

    If we think Plum has problems have a look at the SA men’s hockey team in the WC.

    Lost 4-2 against Spain, then lost 6-4 to the Poms and finally totally humiliated by the Aussies today: 12-0!
    [ Edit | Move | Moderate | Spam | Blacklist | Trash ]
    Comment 64, posted at 04.03.10 16:39:23 by rhineshark Reply

  • Comment 111, posted at 05.03.10 07:44:55 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 111) :

    I know, hence I mentioned – context.

    It is easy to make assumptions but when looked at it context it sometimes paints a completely different picture.

  • Comment 112, posted at 05.03.10 08:15:50 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 104) : Didn’t know the hockey team is fully amateur. In that case the overall performance wasn’t bad.

    Still have to wonder why we can’t have professional hockey here in SA.

  • Comment 113, posted at 05.03.10 08:48:47 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 112) :

    Oh… Well you should have elaborated… lol :twisted: ;-)

  • Comment 114, posted at 05.03.10 08:54:41 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 113) :

    I was also not aware. A colleague of mine is a hockey FREAK and she was at school with 2 of our national team players!!

    These poor okes have to put in leave from work whenever SA plays abroad!! :shock:

  • Comment 115, posted at 05.03.10 08:57:49 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 101) : South of France :cool: You support Toulouse or Perpignon in the HC?

  • Comment 116, posted at 05.03.10 08:59:52 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @zvision10 (Comment 106) : mate, I really try hard not to do this – live and let live and all that – but really, you make of very upset with stuff like that. People who give up on their team when the going gets tough are the lowest of the low, in my opinion. Go support the Bulls, but don’t come crawling back when the wheel turns again

  • Comment 117, posted at 05.03.10 09:00:29 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 115) : Doesn’t sound right. Surely there’s enough money in SA for there to be a sponsored professional side?

  • Comment 118, posted at 05.03.10 09:01:18 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @zvision10 (Comment 106) : You don’t stop loving your mother just because she’s become a crack whore, do you?

  • Comment 119, posted at 05.03.10 09:04:32 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 115) : TG is working with that team

  • Comment 120, posted at 05.03.10 09:08:07 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 119) : easy. That’s getting personal now. Rather just leave him to go his merry way

  • Comment 121, posted at 05.03.10 09:09:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 121) : Didn’t mean his mother, but in general. Let me rephrase: One doesn’t stop loving one’s mother just because she’s become a crack whore.

  • Comment 122, posted at 05.03.10 09:12:47 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • The Chiefs/Reds game is producing some great rugby. What a pleasure seeing teams do everything at pace and in space.

  • Comment 123, posted at 05.03.10 09:17:10 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 119) :

    Whitney Houston. :shock:

    Say what?? :lol: :?: :???:

  • Comment 124, posted at 05.03.10 09:36:44 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @zvision10 (Comment 106) : Idiot :evil: @robdylan (Comment 117) : Nooo, thank…., you, Rob – enough hangers-on supporting the Bulls at the moment. ;-) :roll:

  • Comment 125, posted at 05.03.10 09:50:50 by diablo Reply

    diabloVodacom Cup player
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 122) : better :)
    @diablo (Comment 125) : they’re all the same people that suddenly became Sharks supporters in the mid-90s… I believe some of them even had a stint as Cheetahs supporters a few years ago.

  • Comment 126, posted at 05.03.10 10:07:36 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @robdylan (Comment 126) :

    Why can’t everyone be like us Sharks supporters hey Rob??

    We stick with the team through thick and thin!!

    Go SHARKS!! BLACK and WHITE, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!!! WHOO WHOO :twisted: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 127, posted at 05.03.10 10:22:54 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 126) : Too true – we should actually get someone to design kit for them. Something that includes all the teams so that they can save on buying specific jerseys. Mind you, I doubt if they spend money on buying anything :roll:

  • Comment 128, posted at 05.03.10 10:24:32 by diablo Reply

    diabloVodacom Cup player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 127) : oh shut up :mrgreen:

  • Comment 129, posted at 05.03.10 10:26:41 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @diablo (Comment 128) : I don’t need to buy kit. My Sharks kit is tattooed on

  • Comment 130, posted at 05.03.10 10:27:10 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @robdylan (Comment 126) : i don’t fall into that group, i started going to the games in 1990 before they had won a cc.

  • Comment 131, posted at 05.03.10 10:29:17 by try time Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • that was 20 years ago. can’t believe it.

  • Comment 132, posted at 05.03.10 10:30:53 by try time Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @diablo (Comment 128) :

    One of those Harlequin style jerseys That the Lions supporters have, with a colour for each union on it. :lol:

  • Comment 133, posted at 05.03.10 10:32:19 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 8) :

    Three insults to the word coach. Employ a guy like Campo, and we will see some magic.

  • Comment 134, posted at 05.03.10 16:11:31 by Bump Reply

    BumpSuper Rugby player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 127) : oh yes nothing like true shark supporters :mrgreen:

  • Comment 135, posted at 05.03.10 16:15:50 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @try time (Comment 132) :

    How come you only started going while in your late 40′s?? :twisted:

  • Comment 136, posted at 05.03.10 16:17:34 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 136) : weak! ;)

  • Comment 137, posted at 05.03.10 17:57:47 by robdylan Reply
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