robdylan

A truly baffling decision


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super 14 on 8 Mar 2010 at 14:01
Tagged with : , , , , , ,

Should Paul Marks have awarded the Sharks a penalty try on Saturday? Let’s debate the issue.

I’ve had a look at this one again and to my mind, the evidence was pretty clear. Stefan Terblanche and Ryan Kankowski, on the edge of the 22, with a 2-on-1 situation against Kurtley Beale. Terblanche floats the pass to Kanko – who had a clear run-in to the try line with nary a defender in sight – and Beale reaches out with an open hand to swat the ball away. The ref blows for an intentional knock down and send Beale to the bin. He awards the Sharks a penalty.

Now I’ve read a few reports in which Beale protests his innocence and swears blind that he was trying to catch the ball, honest. Problem is, regardless of what he was trying to do, there is no way he could physically ever have hoped to catch that ball, unless he had the sort amazing powers that would allow him to catch with the tip of his finger. Beale was never in with a shot of catching it and regardless if what the intention may have been, the result was an intentional knock down, in contravention of the laws.

Now heading back to the law book, we’re told that the referee should award a penalty try in a situation where a try would most likely have been scored but for foul play. The ref clearly ruled foul play, otherwise he would not have binned Beale and awarded the penalty. I would love him to explain what process of logic he used to determine that the act did not prevent a try from being scored? Aside from stupid arguments about Kanko pulling his hammie on the way to the line, the decision is, to my mind, indefensible.

Marks had only two options here. Option one was to take no action, if he had decided that Beale did not intentionally knock the ball down. Option two was to ward a penalty try. Although I feel option one would have been incorrect, at least it is internally consistent and not at odds with itself. The decision that Marks made, to award a penalty and card the player, yet somehow not award the penalty try, was simply nonsensical.



109 Comments

  • I remember the moment just before stef passed i was thinking, Yes! Sharks get the win, Finally! Then the hand came in and i was truly shocked a penalty try was not given. The law states if a professional foul is commited in the process of the try being scored is a penalty try. Or somtin like that. Kank was wide open and with his current form, i truly doubt he would have dropped it. The worst is hitting us when we are down. The dicision was seriously biased and it went trough the whole game. Eg, forward passes and small knock ons was a huge issue. We get pinned and they don’t. This guy, marks is a [lain cheat and should face a disciplinary hearing of some sort surely. We need justice!

  • Comment 1, posted at 08.03.10 14:13:11 by JJR Reply
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    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • This has been debated and most of us agree that the decision sucked. Blame should also go to Stefan because he should have either released the ball earlier or tried to sell a dummy. Maybe if he ran the ball more often he wouldn’t make little (expensive) mistakes like that ;-) …On the positive side at least Stefan ran with the ball. :twisted:

  • Comment 2, posted at 08.03.10 14:15:44 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Just to stir…if the Chiefs decision and the Tah’s decision went our way and Kockett kicked 2 more kicks in the Cheetah’s game then we probably would have been under the illusion that the Sharks are actually playing in 2nd gear and still winning and then waited for then to get into top gear and smash the opposition…..sound familiar…..maybe it sound like 2009….just a thought :twisted:
    Maybe it’s best that these calls went against us because now the team can work harder at their shortcomings instead of thinking things are all hunky dory :shock:

  • Comment 3, posted at 08.03.10 14:20:56 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Of course Kanko MIGHT have dropped the ball, of course Kanko MIGHT have pulled a hammy, but both events were extremely unlikely. In all likelihood, Kanko would have scored the try, of this there is no doubt. There is more likelihood of things going wrong on a 5 metre attacking scrum than things going wrong with Kanko’s run in, yet penalty tries are awarded for collapsed 5 metre scrums fairly regularly.

    Now let’s talk about Goode’s yellow. Smit was right, look at the replay, Goode had one foot behind the line. Also, just before the supposed infringement, Marks gave a team warning to the Sharks. OK, so if Marks thought Goode was offsides, yellow card is warranted. Fine, however, in the second half, a team warning was given to the ‘tahs about the same thing, very next ruck, a ‘tahs player was penalized for side entry. Marks says, I just warned your team, and awards the penalty, no yellow card. Now where is the consistency here? This referee had a clear bias, and so long as the ‘tahs were close to winning, he was not going to let them lose, quite simply that is the bottom line.

  • Comment 4, posted at 08.03.10 14:23:56 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Go and read Keo’s take. He reckons no penalty try.

    The law is clear, and anyone who saw Kanko outsprint Drew Mitchell for his first try would know that even on the halfway line, it would have been trytime.

    But the fact remains, Marks was half right and half wrong at the same time. And that makes him wrong.

  • Comment 5, posted at 08.03.10 14:24:02 by Baldrick Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 3) : Ok it would have been nice to see the turn around against the Tah’s because the guys looked like a team for once.

  • Comment 6, posted at 08.03.10 14:25:31 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Hey, any news on the spear tackle by Nonu? I’ve seen nothing on it. That’s a ban.

  • Comment 7, posted at 08.03.10 14:25:57 by Baldrick Reply

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  • The pentaly try awarded by Walsh against the Lions was also a travisty

  • Comment 8, posted at 08.03.10 14:28:13 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I read somewhere the Sharks have requested that Marks’ performance be reviewed by the relevant authorities (referee panel??)

    Can someone confirm if this is true?? :roll:

  • Comment 9, posted at 08.03.10 14:29:04 by wpw Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 2) : hey i have sole rights to knock stefan. did you get my permission? :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 10, posted at 08.03.10 14:32:10 by try time Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 9) : you are the second person to read this somewhere… can you tell me where you read it?

  • Comment 11, posted at 08.03.10 14:32:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • I’ll pick you up on one thing from your article Rob:

    “regardless if what the intention may have been, the result was an intentional knock down”.

    If there was no intention to knock on the ball then it wasn’t an intentional knock on. From my experience back line players very seldom try to knock on a ball, they always reckon they can take the one-handed wonder catch and score an interception try.

    That said, the result would have been a scrum. It wasn’t, it was a penalty so should definitely been a penalty try. As Baldrick said – half right and half wrong.

  • Comment 12, posted at 08.03.10 14:34:04 by Flashman Reply

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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 4) :
    Goode infringed on the ruck and deserved his yellow card. Both of his feet would have to be on the line for him to be onside – not one in front and the other waving about somewhere in the vacinity of the line. It was a stupid mistake and you could see that he knew it as he walked off. He’ll be fine, he’s not all that bad a player.

  • Comment 13, posted at 08.03.10 14:36:09 by Flashman Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 10) : sorry boss I’ll ask next time :sad:

  • Comment 14, posted at 08.03.10 14:38:57 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) :

    I am sure I read it on Voldy somewhere cos I am unable to find it anywhere else!!

  • Comment 15, posted at 08.03.10 14:40:30 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 15) : Then take it with a pinch of salt. He has no sources in the Sharks camp, I reckon they detest the rubbish he writes and the way he twists everything they say.

  • Comment 16, posted at 08.03.10 14:43:36 by Baldrick Reply

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  • @Flashman (Comment 12) : ok – bang on. I should probably reword that one so that I don’t contradict myself.

    Ok, so given that we can argue that a player will never intentionally knock the ball on, what should the law say? Because the law is then meaningless… The way I interpret it is to look at whether the player actually stood any realistic chance of being able to gather the ball… if not, then he’s just having a go more to disrupt the pass than to intercept it.

  • Comment 17, posted at 08.03.10 14:48:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • i read an article on rugbyheaven where Phil Waugh said that he thought the Ref handled the game well. (no mention of the penalty try incident). i know that the Aussie comentators thought that it should/could have been a penalty try, and that in itself says alot. anyone clued up with the Aussies and kiwi`s thought on the incident?

  • Comment 18, posted at 08.03.10 14:51:19 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 17) :
    That’s it – any rule that requires the ref to read a player’s mind is going to struggle.
    Your idea is better: if the ref reckons the player had a chance then a scrum, if not then a penalty.

  • Comment 19, posted at 08.03.10 14:53:04 by Flashman Reply

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  • @Flashman (Comment 12) : Boet, you’re being too nice to Beale.
    It’s a professional game and players will do whatever it takes to win. Look at Richie McCaw, he’s been a professional cheat for nearly 10 years now. He wouldn’t play fair in a charity game.

  • Comment 20, posted at 08.03.10 14:53:16 by CapeShark Reply
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  • @Flashman (Comment 13) : Actually Flashman he was on side as i said previously i watched the game twice once when the emtion was there and once when i could see the incidents. and if you take the trouble to look using slo mo if you have to you will see Goode has one foot behind the line-that in the law is regarded as behind the line Dont ask me why Its like trowing into the linout skew throw is only when the ball goes to the outside of the jumper-So John was right and Skid Marks was wrong. HOWEVER he should have sent Muller to the bin as he was not behind the line. Goode copped it because he was easier to id cos of the red stuff he wares on his legs

  • Comment 21, posted at 08.03.10 14:54:58 by Fattmann Reply
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  • the Sharks lost, finish & klaar no point in poring over the referee’s decision when sanzar doesn’t have a referral system to overturn decisions.

  • Comment 22, posted at 08.03.10 14:55:53 by Megatron Reply

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  • @Flashman (Comment 19) : ja – expecting any ref to judge on a players intention is simply ludicrous.

  • Comment 23, posted at 08.03.10 14:56:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • @CapeShark (Comment 20) : yep well said and after all Aussie are cheats look how they have manupliated the rules to suit themselves

  • Comment 24, posted at 08.03.10 14:57:28 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @Megatron (Comment 22) : but they do have a referal system to make sure that Marks doesnt do it again. He has always been iffy with his decisions but now you cannot say that he is a fair ref

  • Comment 25, posted at 08.03.10 14:59:12 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @CapeShark (Comment 20) : yip, richie was born offside…

  • Comment 26, posted at 08.03.10 15:00:53 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @CapeShark (Comment 20) : I’m sure he wasn’t devastated with the outcome!

  • Comment 27, posted at 08.03.10 15:01:46 by Flashman Reply

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  • I even heard the Aus commentators saying in the 1st halve that the Waratahs are testing the ref with forward passes. I was more dumbstruck in the 2nd halve when he blew an attacking Sharks backline for a forward pass and the Aus comments that the pass was marginal AND that he has seen passes more forward than that one not being blown this season and even tonight.

  • Comment 28, posted at 08.03.10 15:02:02 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

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  • @JustPlainSHARK (Comment 28) : i remember that… and that on its own says alot of the ref.

  • Comment 29, posted at 08.03.10 15:03:49 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 3) : nobody biting :?: :roll:

  • Comment 30, posted at 08.03.10 15:04:46 by Pokkel Reply
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  • can we put up a list of refs that would not be wolcome at our clubhouse after the game?? and then those who would be welcome…

    not welcome:
    1. Steve Walsh
    2. Steve Walsh
    3. Steve Walsh
    4. Paul Marks
    5. Bryce Lawrence

    welcome:
    i guess we should check our chequebooks for that one… :evil:

  • Comment 31, posted at 08.03.10 15:07:37 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 30) : you should turn that thought into an article… it’s a good one.

  • Comment 32, posted at 08.03.10 15:10:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • I just read a few other sites and the comments are very anti shark take it like a man stop moaning
    So my questions to the Bull supporters and stormer supporters-read megatron and flash and a few other-is if this happend to your team would you take it on the chin and shut up
    Oh of course you would
    Bulls let me caste your minds back to a certain tmo decision about a legit Akona try that he disallowed because he hadnt scored it with his hand Cost the game that decision and the noise you guys made
    Stormers a forward pass blown by the ref which prevented the try and you qualifying for the semi. I live in Cape Town and you guys winged big time
    Whats good for the goose is good for the gander

  • Comment 33, posted at 08.03.10 15:16:40 by Fattmann Reply
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  • I didn’t see the incident, but in reality to insist that try would have been scored from the 22 line – does seem a little demanding even for the most one eyed fans.

    A ref needs 100% certainty that the try would be scored.

  • Comment 34, posted at 08.03.10 15:18:26 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @Fattmann (Comment 33) :

    All your comment proves is that all fans feel the ref is knobbing his team and his team alone – when in reality 80% of fans don’t really know the rules or the context of the decision – they just see their team getting screwed.

  • Comment 35, posted at 08.03.10 15:22:17 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 34) : maybe you should try and get that incident on video…

  • Comment 36, posted at 08.03.10 15:23:14 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 34) : maybe you should go and watch it and see that there wasn’t any Tah’s in sight. It was a hell of a lot more probable than the penatly try awarded against the Lions

  • Comment 37, posted at 08.03.10 15:24:07 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 36) :

    I ‘ll pass – i have watched enough bad rugby to know i have better things to do with my time :twisted

  • Comment 38, posted at 08.03.10 15:26:07 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 35) : It seems 80% of refs don’t know the rules either. :razz:

  • Comment 39, posted at 08.03.10 15:26:29 by CapeShark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 32) : Good idea…

  • Comment 40, posted at 08.03.10 15:27:21 by Pokkel Reply
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  • okey, on the other hand now. the try Adi scored… obstruction? they didnt show a clear replay, but i saw a few tahs throw up their hands after the try…

  • Comment 41, posted at 08.03.10 15:27:25 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 30) : Nope not at that comment, but at comment 8, how that was a penalty try I have know idea, perhaps Steve Walsh can see into the future?

  • Comment 42, posted at 08.03.10 15:28:23 by Greg Reply

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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 38) : you a stormers fan? ;-)

  • Comment 43, posted at 08.03.10 15:28:36 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 37) : Didn’t see that game either.

    Look from what i can gather – the general sentiment is that a try should have been awarded – but in reality the ref didn’t.

    0 from 4, no point dwelling on it. Suck it up and cane the next opposistion team.

  • Comment 44, posted at 08.03.10 15:31:01 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @CapeShark (Comment 39) : Blame the IRB – they not sure what rules are played where :lol:

    @VanWilder (Comment 43) : I am. You guys don’t even know the pain those dumbasses inflict on us.

    This was the first year in 26 years our family didn’t buy season tickets. :!:

  • Comment 45, posted at 08.03.10 15:32:54 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/super14/news/2285060.htm

    Don’t if I am allowed to put a link in – the law discussion on Rugby365 for the controversial decisions this weekend.

  • Comment 46, posted at 08.03.10 15:34:53 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 44) : So we not allowed to debate it then, sorry, thought this was a debate.

  • Comment 47, posted at 08.03.10 15:35:10 by CapeShark Reply
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  • Ps….if the Sharks and Lions don’t request a review of the referees performance this weekend – I am going to organise mass protests, because it is the refs who are killing the game!

  • Comment 48, posted at 08.03.10 15:36:11 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 30) : hook, line and sinker…just not willing to admit it yet, but you’ve got a point.

  • Comment 49, posted at 08.03.10 15:37:04 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 44) : We have been “sucking” up decisions for too long – and that’s why it is just getting worse. Time for something to be done. Refs are breaking peoples careers.

  • Comment 50, posted at 08.03.10 15:37:38 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @CapeShark (Comment 47) : No by all means debate it – it just prolongs the bad feeling of losing by means other than your teams performance – but then again perhaps it was the other 75 minutes that was the real issue?

    But like i said – i haven’t seen the game.

  • Comment 51, posted at 08.03.10 15:37:54 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @Baldrick (Comment 5) : Voldy and Joel Stransky are the same – it is impossible for them to be objective when it comes to the Sharks.

  • Comment 52, posted at 08.03.10 15:38:51 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 45) : you should have stopped a long time ago, you guys starting to play well. ;-) cant understand the press these days. i understand that u didnt play attractive rugby, but 33-0 is quite a win, against a side that gave the crusaders and blues a run for their money.

    really do hope the sharks can take a few big ones so we can help the stormers and bulls.

  • Comment 53, posted at 08.03.10 15:39:13 by VanWilder Reply

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  • Disagree with putting any blame to Treblanche for his pass, that would be equivalent to blaming me for getting burgled because I didn’t have a trellidor….then again, I probably would get the blame. :roll:

  • Comment 54, posted at 08.03.10 15:40:30 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @VanWilder (Comment 31) : You can add Marius Jonker to that list of yours.

    I said it here last week already, after Jonkers performance AGAINST the `Tahs last weekend all SA sides should expect a backlash from the overseas refs. . . . We shouldn`t complain, Jonker set the president last week now we`ll have to take it. Expect more of the same this weekend.

    Maybe Walsh would ref our game this weekend? Lots of drama to look forward to :razz:

  • Comment 55, posted at 08.03.10 15:41:01 by Original Pierre Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 54) : Welkom terug :grin:

  • Comment 56, posted at 08.03.10 15:45:13 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 53) : Agreed, honestly – its not good enough to smash a team with a bonus point win. You have to do it with style and panache – the Cape Press are possible the biggest idjits in the country when it comes to being one eyed fans – objectivity doesn’t exist in their vocab.

  • Comment 57, posted at 08.03.10 15:45:40 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 31) : Add Brown-nose, he cost us the Chiefs game…..and add Jannie

  • Comment 58, posted at 08.03.10 15:45:40 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Original Pierre (Comment 55) : if its walsh on the wistle for us this weekend, then i`m going to the in-laws this weekend. much more fun… :twisted:

  • Comment 59, posted at 08.03.10 15:47:14 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 56) : Daie Bankie… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 60, posted at 08.03.10 15:47:32 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • The Sharks lost because they played rubbish for the most part. The minutiae of ‘why’ doesn’t really matter.

    Play that poorly for most of the game and allow things to come down to a incident like this. Against a Tahs side playing badly. Then you only have yourselves to blame, worryingly everything from the Sharks camp is blaming the ref. Which does not bode well for the next game imo.

    Marks was of course the ref back in 2008 when the Sharks played the Canes. That day Barritt pulled an illegal off the ball tackle at the death to prevent a certain Canes try. This was ignored/missed by Marks and the Sharks claimed the draw.

    I said that it was good play by Barritt, a risk that paid off and that the Canes simply were not good enough. I’ll say the same about Beale and the Sharks now. Beale took a risk that paid off, the Sharks were mostly kak and can’t complain. If they do so it will avoid responsibility for their own failings and so fixing the issues.

  • Comment 61, posted at 08.03.10 15:49:12 by Os Reply

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  • “Time was up on the clock, the scores tied when the Hurricanes made a break down the right flank and looked to snatch victory.

    Hosea Gear dashed down the touchline, then flicked the ball back inside to Conrad Smith but a hand from Terblanche knocked the ball back, and then Smith was tackled without the ball by Bradley Barrett. Instead of awarding an obvious penalty try, or even referring the incident to the TMO, Marks blew full time as Smith stared in disbelief.

    If there is one thing worse than a referee who refuses to make the big decisions, it is a referee who is unafraid to make big decisions and gets them wrong.”

    Sound familiar?

  • Comment 62, posted at 08.03.10 15:50:41 by rhineshark Reply
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  • A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.

    That is directly from the law book. PROBABLY – not certainly and in this case a try PROBABLY would have been scored thus deserved the penalty.

    I have read a few article (some sensationalist journalists) say that the referee has to be certain… well sorry the law book tells a different story.

  • Comment 63, posted at 08.03.10 15:51:24 by lostfish Reply
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  • @Os (Comment 61) : I agree

  • Comment 64, posted at 08.03.10 15:53:09 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 57) : i feel for you guys. it`s like being a sharks fan reading the Rapport on a sunday morning. always something wrong at the sharks.

    @FireTheLooser (Comment 58) : the funny thing about jannie is, after the kick, the camera was where the ball landed and you could hear the TJ on tele saying that there was fowl play. and i thought to myself, fowl play… could only be one person… i was not dissapointed. :twisted:

    @Original Pierre (Comment 55) : yip, saw that one… and in the press in Aus they make it sound like this was revenge. They got alot of stick from SA refs in SA, now their turn…

  • Comment 65, posted at 08.03.10 15:53:28 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Os (Comment 61) : The problem is, this wasn’t just one call that went against us…..3 x big calls – Tmo try, penalty try, supposed obstruction penalty…..not to mention all the forward passes he missed.

  • Comment 66, posted at 08.03.10 15:54:13 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • ask and you shall receive:

  • Comment 67, posted at 08.03.10 15:54:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Os (Comment 61) : That is, however, besides the point.

    Would you agree that was a penalty try if both the Sharks and the Tahs played brilliant rugby and the score was 34-31 with 3 minutes to go?

  • Comment 68, posted at 08.03.10 15:56:38 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 64) : As much as I don’t think the correct decision has been made all this bitching and moaning won’t get us anywhere. I’m out. I’ve had enough of this topic. The Sharks shouldn’t get themselves into positions where an incident like this affects their campaign

  • Comment 69, posted at 08.03.10 15:57:47 by Pokkel Reply
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  • i must also add that i have a few favourites when it come to refs. some still with us, some retired.

    1 – Oupa Watson – and no ralation to the Cape Watson`s i pressume, cause he was fair… :twisted:
    2 – the ireland ref in the WC 2007 final. Alain Rowland
    3 – the welsh ref in the WC 1995 semi in Durbs. Derek Bevan

  • Comment 70, posted at 08.03.10 15:59:17 by VanWilder Reply

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  • Penalty try for all money. Useless Aussie cheaters!

  • Comment 71, posted at 08.03.10 15:59:24 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 67) : how on earth that little liar can try to say he didn’t slap it down…

  • Comment 72, posted at 08.03.10 15:59:24 by lostfish Reply
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  • Howdy.
    I feel sorry for my Sharks buddies. The ref made more than just a few diabolical decisions. I cant believe he didnt award a penalty try! :evil:

  • Comment 73, posted at 08.03.10 15:59:27 by wpw Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 70) : 4 – Jonothan Kaplan – say no more

  • Comment 74, posted at 08.03.10 16:00:14 by VanWilder Reply

    VanWilderCurrie Cup player
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 62) : well, it can’t have been me who wrote it cos I now how to spell Barritt :)

  • Comment 75, posted at 08.03.10 16:00:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 69) : Pokkel is so gatvol of this topic he has replied to his own post :grin:

  • Comment 76, posted at 08.03.10 16:01:27 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 72) : did you see the smirk as he walked off? Said it all…

  • Comment 77, posted at 08.03.10 16:02:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 75) : It’s from Harfish’s column on Newsvine.com.

    :

  • Comment 78, posted at 08.03.10 16:04:28 by rhineshark Reply
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  • And we can’t play like this the entire game, because?????

  • Comment 79, posted at 08.03.10 16:05:27 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 77) : as guilty as he looks

  • Comment 80, posted at 08.03.10 16:06:03 by lostfish Reply
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  • GO PUKKE!!!!!

  • Comment 81, posted at 08.03.10 16:07:11 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 66) : Sadly, it tends to happen with sides that are not quite good enough. They produce close loses and the ref gets it in the neck.

    I think Marks is an average ref. I would say he was poor/rubbish, but I’ve seen worse, particularly from the Aussies. We’ll never see him at test level doing anything serious. He’s probably about provincial level at best, which doesn’t help when you get a bum call from him at provincial level!

    After 3 of the 4 losses there have been complaints about the reffing. I’m afraid the common denominator is the Sharks playing well below ability, not one particular kak ref/stadium/playing condition/injury run/misfortune, or whatever else.

    If the Sharks lose near every match, which at this stage looks likely. I hope we wont just have a pile of excuses for each lost game, save the blow outs. Being precious about it and moaning after, not taking any blame and shifting all responsibility, will start getting as bad as the loses. Would like to think we are better supporters than that.

  • Comment 82, posted at 08.03.10 16:10:35 by Os Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • @Os (Comment 82) : you seem to miss the point that most people are making. It is not about the win or the loss it is about the poor calls.

    Refs need to be held more accountable for making bad decisions. There were bad decisions both ways.

  • Comment 83, posted at 08.03.10 16:13:22 by lostfish Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 68) : tbh, it was from 30 metres out, how often do you see a penalty try that far out given?

    By the letter of the law it probably should have been a penalty try imo, especially considering the card that was awarded. You aren’t going to see those given too often from that distance though. It was intelligent play by Beale. I doubt many Sharks fans complained about the Barritt 2008 tackle, I know I didn’t, got vital away points in the bank. That’s on youtube also.

  • Comment 84, posted at 08.03.10 16:17:35 by Os Reply

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  • @lostfish (Comment 83) : Refs are accountable. After every match they have to go through each individual decision they make justifying it to a ‘ref coach’/assessor. If there are enough errors they are quietly stood down and made to brush up on their skills, to get them back to the standard they were at. Or are given low value jobs. After awhile with sustained failure, they are dropped totally. For obvious reasons they aren’t accountable in the public domain, it would erode their authority.

    Wayne Barnes after the RWC quarterfinal Kiwi knockout. Had to go through and individually justify all 600 calls/judgements he made. Is that standard? I think it is a test level, but am unsure. Errors are expected, they are human. At this sort of level they will be fairly low all things considered.

    Marks to my mind is highly average, provincial level and nothing more. Pack in a few games like this and he wont even be that.

    There are refs forums you can discuss all this.

    I don’t buy that it’s just concern about poor standards of reffing. It only happens when the Sharks lose a close one, not some poor other buggers.

  • Comment 85, posted at 08.03.10 16:25:24 by Os Reply

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  • @Os (Comment 85) : I get upset when any game of rugby is made worse by a bad referee.

  • Comment 86, posted at 08.03.10 16:52:40 by lostfish Reply
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  • Just makes me MAD MAD MAD watching that again…an check no tackler rolling away from the ruck before that. There is NOTHING “highly” about this ref.

    Os this is a Sharks forum – we are always concerned about the Sharks.

  • Comment 87, posted at 08.03.10 16:52:48 by Just a Fan Reply

    Just a FanCurrie Cup player
     
  • Rob would love to see a clip on the try that the TMO awarded….

  • Comment 88, posted at 08.03.10 16:54:14 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 88) : I wasn’t actually so hung up about that one. Figured it could have gone either way

  • Comment 89, posted at 08.03.10 17:05:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 89) : nah, that ball was never grounded, anyway polota-nau clearly knocked the ball in the lead up to that “try”

  • Comment 90, posted at 08.03.10 17:13:15 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 90) : did he now?

  • Comment 91, posted at 08.03.10 17:14:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 91) : i even heard someone (probably one of the sharks players shout “knock on!” at the time, this referring to the TMO “try” not polota-nau’s forward pass/obstruction “try”

  • Comment 92, posted at 08.03.10 17:18:45 by war1 Reply
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  • as you can see I’m not biased at all :oops: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 93, posted at 08.03.10 17:19:21 by war1 Reply
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  • @Os (Comment 84) : You’re right – we don’t see it often that penalty tries are awarded 30m out, but that’s also besides the point.

    Marks should have made a judgement on facts alone. The facts were that there were no other defenders anywhere near Kankowski. The facts were that Kankowski would have scored a try if Terblanche had passed him the ball. The facts were that Beale’s illegal knocking on of the ball prevented this. Case closed.

    By the letter of the law is all we want. We’ve seen penalty tries awarded in far less certain situations.

    But I’m pulling a Pokkel and also giving up on this subject. I hope we can go out and floor the opposition in the remaining matches so that things like this don’t matter.

  • Comment 94, posted at 08.03.10 17:27:41 by rhineshark Reply
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  • Beale has told the Daily Telegraph that it was a two against one situation and he was going for the intercept and he hit the ball up and it would have been a certain try :evil:

    I had it typed out word for word on my cell but couldnt send it through, it is on news24.

  • Comment 95, posted at 08.03.10 17:41:35 by Treehugger Reply

    TreehuggerUnder 21 player
     
  • @war1 (Comment 90) : @robdylan (Comment 91) : Never mind not grounded, never reached the try line. It would have been a scrum and Sharks would more likely than not have held out for half time.

  • Comment 96, posted at 08.03.10 18:10:37 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Os (Comment 85) : I get your point about not making excuses even though the ref shafted us, but it’s difficult, if not impossible to keep lifting your game when the ref is blowing you out of it.

    In rugby you need momentum, if the ref keeps blowing you while on the front foot it gets to the team’s morale and makes it hard to lift your game.

    The fact that the Sharks was able to lift themselves up and fight to the bitter end is already a great achievement, but losing it to two bad calls from the ref just stinks, and makes the fight back worthless.

  • Comment 97, posted at 08.03.10 18:16:25 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 88) : That was never grounded. Actually it was not even over the try line. I replayed that one over and over. Kanko’s hand/elbow is on the ground and ball is held up but behind the try line. They showed you that again on (All Out Rugby) They highlighted the try line and the ball was short, was not grounded never mind getting over the try line. So How the TMO could have got that one wrong was far worse than the penalty try not given. A TMO can replay that over and over to see it. So how he said that was a try was a disgrace. No excuse there that was blatant cheating.

    I was supposed to go to Oz on Saturday for business trip this week, but got my colleague to go instead. Was on a tele conference to the office there this morning and all the Aussies in that office said Sharks got a raw deal, all agree the ref got it wrong but most of all the TMO. They say we were screwed. So if they think so, everyone does.

    We just have to come out and play from the start against the Brumbies and hope for no yellow cards. Can only play for pride from here on and also help out our other saffa sides to beat the teams over there that could make the semi.

    Go Sharks, still proud of my team.

  • Comment 98, posted at 08.03.10 18:51:45 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Puma (Comment 98) : Hey Puma, how goes….

    The Sharks game was bitter sweet, great to see the boys playing some rugby, horrible to see them get shafted once again…..

  • Comment 99, posted at 08.03.10 18:56:39 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 99) : Howzit Fires, Yip they looked much better this week. Felt for the players getting the wrong end of the stick again with the ref. For me that TMO should be sacked :twisted: That was never a try. With a ref, okay he can make a mistake it is a split second though any other ref probably would have given the penalty try there. The TMO could play that try he gave the Tahs over and over and over. He had a close up look at it. How on earth could he have given that try? That for me was blatant cheating. Ball was not grounded and it was not even over the try line for goodness sake.

    Ag, have to move on, we will never get the points back. I would love the rules to be we could cite the refs bad calls and get our points back…..hahahaha. Will never happen but something has to be done about this reffing.

    Next year it should go back to neutral refs and maybe from NH. Even if they never let the game flow. Rather have refs that are really neutral to all sides playing down here.

  • Comment 100, posted at 08.03.10 19:06:48 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Puma (Comment 100) : Agree 100% on the NH neutral refs, it’s the only way this comp. can go forward.

    Provincial rugby is big money over here, seems the kiwis and ozzies are the once making the losses, can’t see why we should pay for it with low quality refs.

  • Comment 101, posted at 08.03.10 19:11:57 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : Agree. Really the only two top refs in the tourney are Kaplan and Mark Lawrence. The rest are not up to it.

    Now hoping we can pull it around this week against the Brumbies. What a shame for our boys man, feel for the players. They should have won the game agains the Chiefs and this one too. Just need one win to get the confidence up.

    I would also try out Mvovo and Lambie. Even just coming off the bench. I know now we need experienced heads but I feel nothing to lose now.

  • Comment 102, posted at 08.03.10 19:15:45 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • The Lions too got a raw deal from Steve Walsh. Not sure what the winking was all about either after he had penalized the Lions. He winked to the Brumbie players. Jeepers that never looked good hey!!

  • Comment 103, posted at 08.03.10 19:17:34 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Puma (Comment 102) : Experience hasn’t helped us up to now, I think the youth will inject some much needed hunger and energy in this team.

    Get some young guy in there that just won’t accept his Sharks team deserves the bottom of the log……….

    and PLEASE DROP JANNIE COMPLETELY, relegate him to the VC :!:

  • Comment 104, posted at 08.03.10 19:21:39 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @Puma (Comment 103) : I could not believe the penalty try he gave….NUTS, must have had a sundowner before blowing the game.

    That wink….silly boy, might have been making plans for after the game though, he could easily be that way inclined. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 105, posted at 08.03.10 19:23:33 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 105) : hahahaha. Felt for the Lions though. They too getting a raw deal. Hope they beat the Tahs this week. Feel for that team too. Everyone on their case and ours.

    Well all we need is a win over one of the top teams over there that could make the semi. To help out our other teams.

    Was great to see Cheetahs beating the Canes this past weekend. For me that was the best cause they beat a top side. Pity about Brussow. Out for the rest of the year now.

  • Comment 106, posted at 08.03.10 19:26:59 by Puma Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 104) : I know JdP is a penalty or yellow card just waiting to happen.

    I would play Lambie and Mvovo. Why have the younsters on tour and not give them a chance. Now is the time, nothing to lose.

    Look the Bulls wings are only 20 and they are doing superb with them.

  • Comment 107, posted at 08.03.10 19:32:10 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • meant = youngsters

  • Comment 108, posted at 08.03.10 19:32:52 by Puma Reply

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  • @Puma (Comment 100) : Aren’t we lucky we have the same TMO for the next game…

  • Comment 109, posted at 08.03.10 22:02:58 by lostfish Reply
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