robdylan

Looking at origins


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super 14 on 15 Mar 2010 at 13:33
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So Keohane’s latest bit of Shark-bashing is getting a fair bit of airtime here. For those of you who haven’t seen it yet, he extrapolates from the lack of “home grown” talent in the Sharks squad to the run of poor results. Might he be onto something?

The concept “home grown” can mean any one of a number of things. People move around as they grow up and to my mind, having been born in Durban and spent your whole life there shouldn’t be an absolute necessity to be considered a “home grown” player. In the analysis that follows, we’ll look at where a player completed his secondary schooling, played age group rugby and then made his first-class debut. Let’s run the rule over the current Sharks tour party, first of all.

The first group of players are those who made their first-class debut for another team. They have played senior rugby elsewhere before moving to the Sharks. In this category, we have Jannie du Plessis, Wilhelm Steenkamp (loan), Jacques Botes, Jean Deysel, Willem Alberts, Rory Kockott, Andy Goode, Adi Jacobs, Odwa Ndungane and Stefan Terblanche. That’s ten out of 26, or 38% of the tour party.

The next category are guys who have only played senior rugby for the Sharks, but made their age-group debut elsewhere. Here we have Riaan Swanepoel (Griquas under 20), Ruan Pienaar and Bismarck du Plessis (both Free State under 20).

Of the players that have only ever played representative rugby in Sharks colours, there are two further groups. Those who attended high school elsewhere (Deon Carstens, John Smit, Beast Mtawarira, Johann Muller, Steven Sykes, Keegan Daniel, Ryan Kankowski, JP Pietersen, Lwazi Mvovo) and those who were schooled in KZN (Craig Burden, Alistair Hargreaves, Waylon Murray and Patrick Lambie).

Looking at that by the numbers, we have 10/26 (38%) who have played senior rugby elsewhere, moving up to 13/26 or exactly half who have played any representative rugby for another team. Of the 50% that remain, only 4 players (15%) have been in Natal all the way through from school level. Is that really an important statistic? I don’t really think so. If anything, looking at the fact that 50% of the players have never played for any other team, moving up to 62% who have never played senior rugby for another team, saying that the Sharks have a “mercenary culture” is to my mind misleading.

We can do the analysis for other teams (I will, if I can find time and add this to the comments section) but I feel that Keo is barking up the wrong tree when it comes to this one.



147 Comments

  • looking at the Stormers starting lineup that player on Saturday… 7/15 have played senior rugby elsewhere. That’s 53% “home grown”

  • Comment 1, posted at 15.03.10 13:42:39 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : pity that in order this one needs to have a go at other unions.

  • Comment 2, posted at 15.03.10 13:45:09 by rekinek Reply
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  • the Bulls have a far higher percentage… only 4 from 15 have played senior rugby outside Pretoria, giving them a 73% “home grown” score

  • Comment 3, posted at 15.03.10 13:47:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • in contrast, the Sharks team that took the field against the Brumbies had 5 guys who have played senior rugby elsewhere… that’s 66% homegrown.

  • Comment 4, posted at 15.03.10 13:48:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 2) : I’m not having a go at anyone, Reki. Just trying to prove that Keo is talking dross.

  • Comment 5, posted at 15.03.10 13:49:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • if we start looking at how many players attended school outside of the province they are now playing for, the number fall alarmingly for both the Sharks and the Bulls. Fact is, the Bulls do the best job right now of identifying schoolboy talent wherever it originates and bringing those guys into their setup. Sure, they have a fair smattering of Affies boys in the ranks, but a huge number of their key players came from elsewhere. Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Morne Steyn, etc

  • Comment 6, posted at 15.03.10 13:51:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : Thanks Rob, you set my mind at ease.

    I think these stats will change again soon, when our younger guys, like Mvovo and Lambie gets a run. We have a few guys coming up the ranks, we just need to give them a chance now.

    That was a very helpful article.

  • Comment 7, posted at 15.03.10 14:00:33 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 6) :

    Cheetahs must surely rank as one of the highest both from schoolboy group and pro.

  • Comment 8, posted at 15.03.10 14:01:45 by Morné Reply
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  • I dont agree with Keo , but thats not unusual. Where I think the Sharks and more specifically Plum has gone wrong has been his inability to bring the younger players through. The Acadamy have some quality players, but in order fo them to be developed one has to show confidence and in that way build their confidence as players. I still wonder why the sharks brought poor old Monty Du Mond back from the Free State. Guys like Pat Lambie and the Cronje brothers, why have they not been utilised. Andy Goode has done nothing for you apart from kick well, where as a younger player might have benefited from an extended run and if you dont think they can cut it at this level, why do you have them on your books.The Sharks have a number of players who in my opinion are starting to get a bit long in the tooth and may need to be put out to pasture. I am sure John Smit will can it after the world Cup then there is Deon Carstens,Adi Jacobs and Stefan Terblanche who may need to go and will require replacements and now that your Super 14 is basically sunk, might be a good time to get this done?

  • Comment 9, posted at 15.03.10 14:02:14 by Whindy Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 2) : What difference does it really make anyway, home grown or not, this is now a professional sport. The only benefit is having grown up in the team environment and having a loyalty to the culture, which has benefited the Bulls enormously.

  • Comment 10, posted at 15.03.10 14:08:58 by Whindy Reply
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  • let’s do a thought experiment here… pick the best team the Sharks could possibly field using no imports.

    Starting out with the guys who have never played senior rugby anywhere else…

    15. Pietersen
    14. Mvovo
    13. Murray *
    12. Swanepoel
    11. Vulindlu
    10. Lambie *
    9. Pienaar
    8. Kankowski
    7. Rhodes *
    6. Downey *
    5. Muller
    4. Sykes
    3. Carstens
    2. Smit
    1. Beast

    The ones with a * went to school in KZN

  • Comment 11, posted at 15.03.10 14:17:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : That’s not bad, in fact, why not just give those guys a run? They can’t do any worse than the “imports” in the team now.

    Where did Keegan play before Sharks? I thought he was at the Sharks acadamy.

    If Barrit and Steyn didn’t leave you could have added them to that list to.

    Do we have enough guys to make up a bench?

  • Comment 12, posted at 15.03.10 14:27:16 by Letgo Reply
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  • Hargreaves, Pat Cilliers, ???

  • Comment 13, posted at 15.03.10 14:28:27 by Letgo Reply
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  • As much as i hate to agree with keo, there’s something to what he is saying. I think a large part of the sharks squad don’t feel ANYWHERE NEAR as much passion for the jersey or the brand like the supporters do. Because if they did, they would sweat blood to win for the sharks. Evidently they don’t.

  • Comment 14, posted at 15.03.10 14:38:06 by justinwhufc Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 12) : oh, sorry… forgot about Keegs.

    So put Keegs at 6 and Downey at 7… move Rhodes to bench.

    Subs are
    16 Cooper (Glenwood)
    17 Cilliers (Michaelhouse)
    18 Hargo (DHS)
    19 Rhodes (Michaelhouse)
    20 Cronje (Michaelhouse)
    21 Cronje (Michaelhouse)
    22 Jerome Pretorius (I think Monnas)

  • Comment 15, posted at 15.03.10 14:38:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • @justinwhufc (Comment 14) : You have nothing, no facts, to back you comment.

  • Comment 16, posted at 15.03.10 14:39:09 by Letgo Reply
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  • @justinwhufc (Comment 14) : where does the passion come from, though? Does it mean we need to pick primarily those who have been schooled in Natal and grew up supporting the Sharks?

  • Comment 17, posted at 15.03.10 14:39:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @justinwhufc (Comment 14) : I think that comment is completely unfair! Those guys do give their heart and soul – if nothing else it is their bread and butter. Form and unknown circumstances have everything to do with it.

    Black and White – All that matters.

  • Comment 18, posted at 15.03.10 14:42:11 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 3) : You can’t take anything that crappo website says seriously. For years the Sharks have been accused of ‘chequebook’ rugby. So f&[email protected] what?!!!! It’s brought us the right results in a professional game over the last 15 years. That’s the way professional football has been for decades. Is Keo trying to say Chelsea would do better to have more homegrown London englishmen in their team? Absolute rubbish…

  • Comment 19, posted at 15.03.10 14:43:03 by CapeShark Reply
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  • @CapeShark (Comment 19) : but it’s not only that website… the article was first printed in Business Day, which last time I checked was a pretty serious publication.

  • Comment 20, posted at 15.03.10 14:44:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • There’s nothing wrong with recruiting talent. How you manage that talent is another thing. The Sharks could field 15 international players for all I care, but where they have slipped up is bringing through new talent that is equally up to the task to replace a) the lost talent and b) the older players who are a bit beyond their prime. It’s been a problem for the last 2 years or so and has nothing to do with the fact that a player went to Selbourne instead of Michaelhouse…

  • Comment 21, posted at 15.03.10 14:47:24 by CapeShark Reply
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  • My first post on sharks world! Thanks for having me.. To be honest I don’t think keo has the ability to be impartial and therefore anything he says regarding the sharks must be taken with a pinch of salt. If you look at both the bulls and stormer squads you will see a host of imports. In the age of professionalism,where you come from is irrelevant but rather how you adapt to a team philosophy and the balance you bring to the team in general is more significant

  • Comment 22, posted at 15.03.10 14:47:31 by zenrugby Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 20) : Well, i really question if the Business Day actually knows it’s ass from it’s elbow. It really is a nonsensical theory that has no place in modern professional sport.

  • Comment 23, posted at 15.03.10 14:49:10 by CapeShark Reply
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  • @zenrugby (Comment 22) : welcome to the site!

  • Comment 24, posted at 15.03.10 14:53:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • @CapeShark (Comment 23) : fair point

  • Comment 25, posted at 15.03.10 14:54:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • I like Keo as much as having Delhi Belly on a long distance flight, but one thing he says that cannot be ignored is that, after 15 years of fully professional rugby, we’ve got this to show:

    1 x Currie Cup title

  • Comment 26, posted at 15.03.10 14:58:30 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 5) : didn’t mean you actually. just a general observation. for some reason general public does not embrace all aspects of the professional era and “import” still has some negative connotations as oppose to “local”.

    Basically in order to prove the point that the guy is talking nonsense one needs to compare it with other unions to show that their import ratio is also high. Which as above is considered negative.

  • Comment 27, posted at 15.03.10 14:58:39 by rekinek Reply
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  • @zenrugby (Comment 22) : Welcome, hope to see you around. We love to hear everyone’s opinion here…even if it’s wrong. ;-)

  • Comment 28, posted at 15.03.10 14:59:53 by Letgo Reply
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  • @zenrugby (Comment 22) :
    @robdylan (Comment 24) : yip yip.
    good to have you here – we need some zen at this horrid times ;-)

  • Comment 29, posted at 15.03.10 15:00:28 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 26) : ya.
    that’s tough reality, but still reality.

    can I ask Rob for your email?

  • Comment 30, posted at 15.03.10 15:02:08 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 26) : After nine years of Western Province history, they’ve also only got one title.
    But Keo the troll thinks they’re magnificent….

  • Comment 31, posted at 15.03.10 15:02:42 by CapeShark Reply
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  • Thanks a lot! Really enjoyed your “running out of options” article. I think the areas you highlighted are a significant reason why the sharks suck at the moment.

  • Comment 32, posted at 15.03.10 15:04:19 by zenrugby Reply

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  • @Whindy (Comment 9) : Just a comment Guy Cronjie is injured and will only be back 2nd half I know Pat Lambie is being talked up at the moment and he may be the guy to fill Oupa’s boots
    I agree though they need to give game time and as soon as Cronje is fit he will slot back in im sure

  • Comment 33, posted at 15.03.10 15:06:16 by Fattmann Reply
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  • @zenrugby (Comment 32) : well – we could always expand on those in the future, if you think it would be useful.

  • Comment 34, posted at 15.03.10 15:06:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 27) : ok fair enough – get what you mean :)

  • Comment 35, posted at 15.03.10 15:06:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 30) : Sure

  • Comment 36, posted at 15.03.10 15:07:53 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @CapeShark (Comment 31) : True. And all of a sudden Voookie is “world class”. :lol:

  • Comment 37, posted at 15.03.10 15:08:49 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 36) : thanx.

    @rhineshark (Comment 37) : he is definately “world” = import :mrgreen:

  • Comment 38, posted at 15.03.10 15:10:55 by rekinek Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 35) : i do struggle to get my complex thinking across :mrgreen:

  • Comment 39, posted at 15.03.10 15:11:30 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 38) : :grin:

  • Comment 40, posted at 15.03.10 15:13:09 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 39) : I know the feeling. I struggle to tie my shoes in the morning :)

  • Comment 41, posted at 15.03.10 15:13:40 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (comment 34) definitely! My major issue is that they just don’t seem to have adapted to the attacking aspects of the new laws. Phase play is so critical and with ball carriers of the quality of kanko,deysel,alberts to name a few,we should be brilliant going forward(theoretically)

  • Comment 42, posted at 15.03.10 15:14:35 by zenrugby Reply

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  • @zenrugby (Comment 42) : the last attacking game from sharks that we saw was this game against bulls 2009 S14 where they went for broke.

    Only one of the tries this year (Adi’s) came out of some serious build-up.

  • Comment 43, posted at 15.03.10 15:17:06 by rekinek Reply
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  • @zenrugby (Comment 42) : well, Deysel and Alberts both are brilliant going forward – we just don’t seem able to capitalise and keep the continuity.

    Is it any coincidence that the best period of play we’ve delivered all season just happened to coincide with us having both of these guys on the park at the same time? How long is it going to take Plumtree to spot that?

  • Comment 44, posted at 15.03.10 15:17:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : this last game there was too many little errors like slippery hands and bad passes. In 80 minutes sharks scored 1 try but where on the way to scoring too many times.

  • Comment 45, posted at 15.03.10 15:21:09 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek comment 43
    @robdylan comment 44

    I think the idea of a specialist fetcher(botes or daniel)is redundent this year especially as neithe of those two is a world class fetcher. The team needs to protect the break down points in numbers and stop isolating the ball carrier

  • Comment 46, posted at 15.03.10 15:25:15 by zenrugby Reply

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  • @zenrugby (Comment 46) : Welcome Zen. Just a tip. See the arrow next to each persons name. Click on that if you want to reply on any of the posts…It will save you loads of time. ;-)

  • Comment 47, posted at 15.03.10 15:30:30 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 47) :thanks! For the welcome and the tip, for the life of me I couldn’t find it(I’m on a blackberry so its quite faint)

  • Comment 48, posted at 15.03.10 15:35:24 by zenrugby Reply

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  • So Keohane’s latest bit of Shark-bashing is getting a fair bit of airtime here. For those of you who haven’t seen it yet, he extrapolates

    Is it possible to extrapolate Keo? And I don’t mean to keohane, I mean from being half a human to being fullsized. :roll:

  • Comment 49, posted at 15.03.10 15:38:31 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 15) : Cool, thanks…I missed that comment somehow. Thought you were ignoring me.

    I think maybe a lot more of these guys mentioned should be getting a chance or should have already gotten a decent run at CC level. That way we would have been more assured when the time came to give them a run at super 14.

    I don’t know what Plum’s waiting for, you can’t wait until players leave or retire to try these guys out.

    We have the talent, Plum just doesn’t want to use them.

  • Comment 50, posted at 15.03.10 15:40:31 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 50) :I think this squad is top heavy with average almost rans(jannie,waylon,carstens,muller,botes,odwa) to name a few. Players that are good but not great and I agree that its time to blood some youngsters with a bit of flair

  • Comment 51, posted at 15.03.10 15:44:46 by zenrugby Reply

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  • To me the issue is simple. Keo is keo is keo and will always be keo.

    The objectives of their articles are anything but being informative. Keo’s objectives are to get hits and how he gets them he doesn’t care. This week it is the Sharks’ lack of “local” talent, next week it will be something else.

    Keo is in the game to be controversial and generate hits nothing else. For that reason I couldn’t be bother to visit his site, i would rather vist Reitzworld that visit keo.

  • Comment 52, posted at 15.03.10 15:47:17 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @zenrugby (Comment 48) : I just got a BB this weekend :) Still trying to figure out how it works. Which one do you have?

  • Comment 53, posted at 15.03.10 15:47:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 50) : I’d never ignore you! I’m especially fond of you :)

  • Comment 54, posted at 15.03.10 15:48:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • So from what I understand, we all have a passionate disliking for Keohane, and his article just reinforced our views? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 55, posted at 15.03.10 15:51:23 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 55) : that about sums it up 100% :)

  • Comment 56, posted at 15.03.10 15:56:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 53) :I’ve got the curve, its pretty cool once you get used to it. It makes life a whole lot easier in some ways

  • Comment 57, posted at 15.03.10 15:56:26 by zenrugby Reply

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  • @rhineshark (Comment 37) :

    Well he definitely better than anything the Sharks have at the moment!!! :twisted:

  • Comment 58, posted at 15.03.10 15:57:59 by wpw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 53) : Cant live without my Blackberry…..dont know how life existed before it :cool:

  • Comment 59, posted at 15.03.10 16:00:51 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 55) : yes that about it i think :smile:

  • Comment 60, posted at 15.03.10 16:00:52 by Charmaine Reply

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  • @zenrugby (Comment 51) : Yep, but I have a feeling that as long as plum is there we won’t really see this happening. Which is sad, because at some point you have to take that leap in order to built the team and move forward.
    As it is now we might improve on our performances, and maybe even do well in the CC, but for how long. Play a couple of youngsters now, otherwise you’re going to have a couple of seasons where these guys will just have to play and won’t have the support of a more experienced player next to him.

  • Comment 61, posted at 15.03.10 16:08:47 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 61) : Thats well said letgo :mrgreen:

  • Comment 62, posted at 15.03.10 16:11:14 by Charmaine Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 54) : Why thank you!!! :grin:

  • Comment 63, posted at 15.03.10 16:12:50 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 20) : It puts it a bit more in perspective when you know that Highbury Safika Media publishes magazines for Business Day (Business Day Sports Monthly). The editor of the magazine – Keohane. Keohane is also on the board of directors for HSM as well as being the Chief Operating Officer of HSM.

    The article that people are referring to appears in the Business Day Sport Monthly magazine.

  • Comment 64, posted at 15.03.10 16:20:35 by lostfish Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 61) : it amazes me how resistant to change one can be! I really think a bit of right brain thinking could do wonders for plum. Experiment a little, try a few new things. This same tedious gameplan has been going on for 2 seasons now.

  • Comment 65, posted at 15.03.10 16:22:18 by zenrugby Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 58) : reckon you need to go chick out at stormersworld for a bit until your common sense returns…

  • Comment 66, posted at 15.03.10 16:26:30 by robdylan Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 64) : aaah. That explains a lot. So it’s not like it’s actually in the newspaper that serious professionals read…

  • Comment 67, posted at 15.03.10 16:27:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @zenrugby (Comment 57) : I’ve also got the Curve. Seems nice

  • Comment 68, posted at 15.03.10 16:27:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 16) : I just haven’t seen as much pride in the faces of the sharks players in the past 2 seasons that i’m used to seeing for the last 16 years watching the sharks. The discipline in the team is shocking, and i see that as disrespect to the badge. Alot of games we appear to be playing as individuals. And i’m convinced there are a few players that would happily be playing for any other team if they had the chance, no names mentioned. The attitude of certain players is evident to see if you look close enough, even as far back as the currie cup last year i noticed players not appearing too concerned with there own poor performances. And i believe the attitude of the coach has filtered down to the players. I’ve recently met and chatted to plum before, as well as 1 or 2 1st team players, so dont just assume i dunno what i’m talking about..

  • Comment 69, posted at 15.03.10 16:27:51 by justinwhufc Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 59) : good good… I’m slowly getting used to mine. Love the way my email follows me around!

  • Comment 70, posted at 15.03.10 16:29:59 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 68) : ja,addictive though! You’ll find yourself on the web a whole lot more now

  • Comment 71, posted at 15.03.10 16:32:34 by zenrugby Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 67) : No, not true. This article appears in the Sports Day section of the Business Day, at the back of the Companies & Markets sections.
    He’s a regular columnist in the Sport section. Since…well I can remember…more than 10 years now.

  • Comment 72, posted at 15.03.10 16:33:02 by Letgo Reply
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  • LOL, I just posted a breakdown of the Bulls team on there similar to this. Then same on here and you had done the Sharks! Did the Bulls, because it just seemed obvious that err … they had almost all started elsewhere!

    I think it’s a bit dodgy going on schools, as the best players drift to the best rugby schools/are poached. Joe Pietersen is from Vryheid, schooled at Grey Bloem and has only ever played for WP. What does that make him then!? I prefer to go on initial province.

    Anyway, my post from there. You can use the info if you want. Will done the Stormers after some lunch.

    quote:
    Mark Keohane is making stuff up again. The entire thrust of the article is wrong. Neither the Bulls or the Stormers are ‘home grown’, they are no better than the Sharks in this regard. In fact they both have senior 1st XV players that played age grade and/or senior rugby for the Sharks and from KZN.

    Bulls Super 14 squad.

    Started playing professionally for another union, before joining the Bulls:
    Flip van der Merwe – Cheetahs
    Guthro Steenkamp – Cheetahs
    Bees Roux – Cheetahs
    Zane Kirchner – Griquas/Cheetahs
    Jaco Engels – Leopards/Boland
    Heini Adams – Eagles
    Bakkies – Valke
    Akona Ndungane – EP/Border
    Jaco Pretorius – Lions
    Jaco van der Westhuizen – Sharks age grade/Vodacom/Currie cup/Super 12

    Started playing age grade for another province. Only played pro rugby for the Bulls:
    Deon Stegmann – from EP poached by Grey College/Cheetahs age grade
    Dewald Potgieter – EP age grade
    Stephan Dippenaar – WP age grade
    Francois Hougaard – WP age grade
    Bandise Maku – Border age grade
    Pedrie Wannenburg – Natal age grade
    Werner Kruger – Valke age grade

    Then there are those, that had to go elsewhere to get their break before returning:
    Jacques-Louis Potgieter – Bulls, but never played, went to Cheetahs, was given a chance and then went back.
    Victor Matfield – Bulls, went to Griquas/Cats so he could get game time, then returned.

    Now that is the majority of the Bulls Super 14 squad.

    I could not care less about the ones that played age grade elsewhere. Nor the ones that started at the Bulls then went back, hey the Bulls were unwilling to give them a break, but it was ‘buyer beware’ if they actually used their chance.

    What gets me, is a full THIRD of the Super 14 squad. Started out professionally at another union, no connection to the Bulls before signing with them whatsoever. Fair enough, most of them were not from big 5 unions and so examples of the system working, good players moving up the food chain from minnow provinces.

    But hang on 6 of these were from big 5 unions! and in the Super 14 match day teams? So just buying a player from a fellow big 5 union, that was an established starting player? Pretty much the purest form of ‘poaching’?

    May do the Stormers in a bit.

  • Comment 73, posted at 15.03.10 16:33:43 by Os Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 17) : I think what’s needed is for the sharks to consider investing more in high school and club rugby, in addition to the academy. Bring in far more players that have been dreaming of playing for the sharks since they were kids, and give more youngsters a chance more often. We don’t have the amount of youngsters coming through in this province from school boy level compared to province, fs and the bulls. If we could have more local talent to choose from to enter into the academy, i’d say the quality of the academy players, and the attitude of the team would certainly improve

  • Comment 74, posted at 15.03.10 16:33:48 by justinwhufc Reply

    justinwhufcUnder 19 player
     
  • @justinwhufc (Comment 69) : woaaah, hang on :) Are those two things connected? Did the guys you met actually tell you that they’re not really too concerned about their performances? Is it something you picked up from speaking to them? Lots of extrapolation (my new word for the day) required in tying that comment together ;)

  • Comment 75, posted at 15.03.10 16:33:54 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @zenrugby (Comment 71) : that would not be possible, according to my wife :)

  • Comment 76, posted at 15.03.10 16:36:38 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @justinwhufc (Comment 74) : well now that was what i was saying about a 2 weeks ago Durbs have got a lot of young rugby players look for them go to schools etc and a person will be surprised what you can get and in couple of years from now we might just take the s15 what do you say lots of talent in durbs or around durbs go for it pleaseeee :sad: ;-) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 77, posted at 15.03.10 16:40:03 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 58) : Sad, but true

  • Comment 78, posted at 15.03.10 16:40:36 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @justinwhufc (Comment 74) : I’m not even sure that you’re right about that, though… The Sharks XV squad has a pretty good dose of Durban boys in it. The guy are in the system – they’re just not getting the chances

  • Comment 79, posted at 15.03.10 16:41:25 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 76) : Can see you quit your job, you’ve been on here a whole lot more since dropping the bomb (in a non terrorist way – I know they’re watching :shock: )

    Btw, I like your new pretty word…..what does it mean? :lol:

  • Comment 80, posted at 15.03.10 16:41:38 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @justinwhufc (Comment 69) : I just don’t know, it hard to believe that these players’attitudes will just change like that. I think it just has a lot to do with the fact that we’re losing. It’s hard to have the same feeling in the team when you’re not getting the result.
    If you’re right, though, someone needs to sort that out fast. It would be embarrassing and really disappointing if we had to find that out about players in our team. Every week I’m gutted for the players, I put all my emotions into the game…I would hate to find out it’s for a team that doesn’t really care as much as we do.

    I’d just like to finish by saying, don’t confuse despondency with a lack of pride for the jersey, we’ve all felt a little despondent over the last few months based on results, performances, and other things going against us. Lets just not assume anything like that about the guys before we have the facts straight.

  • Comment 81, posted at 15.03.10 16:43:00 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 67) : I think he also has another column somewhere in the business day. I just find it interesting that they print him when he is such a controversial hack.

  • Comment 82, posted at 15.03.10 16:46:52 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Os (Comment 73) : Interesting…in your face Keo!!!

  • Comment 83, posted at 15.03.10 16:48:29 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 79) : well lets see Rob everyone write a letter and give it to the guys on top :lol: maybe they will read to them and do something about this promblem :smile: that sharks have, bring in the milky sharks and if we do loose then blame it on us that comment ;-) what do you say because we can’t go on like this its not the team i know at all i’m starting to feel like a valke in the old days sorry valke but thats how i feel at the moment :oops: :cry: :cool:

  • Comment 84, posted at 15.03.10 16:49:21 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • Sharks should get the Maties’ coach…them boys are unstoppable.

  • Comment 85, posted at 15.03.10 16:51:01 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • I’m of to the Gym…I’ll check out what everyone had to say later on. I wish certain people would come and read what we had to say, we don’t always agree, but at least we’re discussing and thinking…

  • Comment 86, posted at 15.03.10 16:51:04 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 86) : And nobody will do anything about it but at least we say what we want just maybe someone will do something :smile:

  • Comment 87, posted at 15.03.10 16:53:53 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 85) : Buy him i think but something has to be done now for the future of shark tank ;-)

  • Comment 88, posted at 15.03.10 16:55:36 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • What about this knowledge that the bulls gave out on the 10 maybe we must get somebody to do something like that to all not just the coaches but to the refereee’s also go back to basic and books :?: :oops: ;-)

  • Comment 89, posted at 15.03.10 17:00:14 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Charmaine (Comment 88) : Let me get my cheque book ;-)

  • Comment 90, posted at 15.03.10 17:00:30 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 86) : No please, we don’t want their type over here. ;-)

  • Comment 91, posted at 15.03.10 17:02:55 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 90) : while your at it give me one empty tjek also i’ll show you what i can do when it comes to buying we’ll have a 2nd bulls team while i’m at it what do you say aaahhhh :mrgreen: ;-)

  • Comment 92, posted at 15.03.10 17:03:33 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 91) : what type are you talking about :oops:

  • Comment 93, posted at 15.03.10 17:06:55 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Charmaine (Comment 93) : From that other site….aka voldy.

  • Comment 94, posted at 15.03.10 17:16:40 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 85) : Um yeah – Village stopped them a couple of weeks ago…was a bit of a thrashing too!

  • Comment 95, posted at 15.03.10 17:18:59 by Just a Fan Reply

    Just a FanCurrie Cup player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 94) :oops: : ok ;-) thanks bit slow today got one big headache my friend and this heat is to hot :smile:

  • Comment 96, posted at 15.03.10 17:20:05 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Charmaine (Comment 96) : We’ve finaly got some rain down here on the coast….the heat and humidity killed me this past Feb and beginning march.

  • Comment 97, posted at 15.03.10 17:22:17 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 94) : well what can we do to get the sharks up and going to the win side must be something we can do :???:

  • Comment 98, posted at 15.03.10 17:23:06 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • Never mind Maties’ coach, get Teichman as coach. Jouba as backline coach. Or Honiball. Better yet, get both.

  • Comment 99, posted at 15.03.10 17:32:20 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 99) : that right almost forgot about him you see if we put heads together what we get now the problem is to put it on paper :cool: ;-)

  • Comment 100, posted at 15.03.10 17:36:16 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • Just have to comment, 101, yahooooo, I’m so coooool :lol:

  • Comment 101, posted at 15.03.10 18:34:06 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : :smile: ;-)

  • Comment 102, posted at 15.03.10 18:38:34 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @52: keo is like a mini-malema, opens his mouth just to be controversial/get hits
    @72: didnt know victor matfield left the bulls for griquas. Thought he was a griquas boytjie all along.
    What abt Morne Steyn? Was he not a wp schools grade player?

  • Comment 103, posted at 15.03.10 20:35:23 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

    JustPlainSHARKCurrie Cup player
     
  • I will take my 6 for the malema comment.

  • Comment 104, posted at 15.03.10 20:38:24 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

    JustPlainSHARKCurrie Cup player
     
  • well i’m going to say GO SHARKS GO we still love you guys so go and have fun :mrgreen:

  • Comment 105, posted at 15.03.10 20:53:45 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • well time to go see everyone tomorrow afternoon :cry: ;-)

  • Comment 106, posted at 15.03.10 20:57:15 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • The Stormers will make the semis .. then go on Strike and lose..
    ;-)

    Voldy is a tool and his articles are aimed at youngsters who have very little clue and get worked up easily.

    and the hits they’a keep on coming.

  • Comment 107, posted at 15.03.10 21:11:22 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 107) : Old Voldy is training school for the novice rugby blogger, the standard issue mud slinging, name calling and general lack of general rugby knowledge.

    But then, where else would the brain dead debate their stupidity?

  • Comment 108, posted at 15.03.10 21:38:53 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 52) :

    It turns out FW Reitz was a well educated, enlightened individual. You should read the memoirs of his son, Denys.
    He lived a pretty amazing life and and it will broaden your horizons. ;-)

  • Comment 109, posted at 16.03.10 02:41:00 by fyndraai Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    fyndraaiTeam captain
     
  • Rather than having a go at Keo, you guys are better served by some introspection.

    The perception that the Sharks buy players from elsewhere is out there and it did not emerge from nothing.

    Both Barritt and Steyn made their debuts as 10s but rather than develop one of them the Sharks brought in Michelak.
    They contracted Michelak while Pienaar was supposedly “our 10″.

    They left the impression with Dumont that the position was his if he performed well but went and contracted Meyer, then Goode, then played Pienaar instead.

    The way they went about getting Alberts and Luddick, completely ignoring the proper channels or even arbitration, certainly displays a sense of entitlement. The message is: “We are the Sharks and we can buy whomever we want.”

    On this website I’ve often read lines like” We need a X, lets buy so and so.”
    This stuff is not lost on those currently in the team and a whilst its no problem when the team wins, it comes out in an amplified way when things go bad on the field

  • Comment 110, posted at 16.03.10 03:00:37 by fyndraai Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    fyndraaiTeam captain
     
  • Correction:
    …Hernandez while Pienaar…

    In the longer term the Sharks need to build their teams around a culture that both the players and the fans can identify with. Or they need to recognize that their is a conflict and spend more on mind and motivational coaching.

    In the big, close games, an intangible like “culture” is often difference.

    More immediately the Sharks need coaches that can get the players to play like a team.

  • Comment 111, posted at 16.03.10 03:18:09 by fyndraai Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    fyndraaiTeam captain
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 110) : Spot on, exactly what I was saying how do you generate any sort of team ethic when its easy to haul out the cheque book. The Bulls are in a good position because Meyer built up a great feeder system. The sharks have one in place but it does not seem to ever give the younger guys a chance. I might be generalising but the cheque book has done nobody any favours. Someone mentioned that this is a professional era and likened it to Chelsea, and yes you can buy a team, but rugby is different to football players have a longer shelf life and most of the chequebook signings (Goode, Hernandez, Michelak) do not stay longer than a season. Must say king Carlos has been a wonderful signing for the lions laughing all the way to the bank, what a joke!!

  • Comment 112, posted at 16.03.10 06:23:13 by Whindy Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner
    WhindyCurrie Cup player
     
  • The keo article made reference to The Sharks not growing local talent..the same can be said for every single top 5 union ..its really a pointless debate as its been a proffesional sport going on 15 years now.

    The Lions unearth talent , they play for the union a season or 2 and move onto where the money and recognition is , frustrating for the supporter but understood.

    In buying players one needs them to buy into the Unions culture and feel at home there making it easier to play ones heart out.
    This is what the likes of The Sharks ,Bulls, Cheetahs and Stormers have and are extremely fortunate to have it. A positive enviroment with a sound support base.

    @Whindy (Comment 112) :

    Whindy I agree with the Carlos signing but it has to be said there was obviously a plan behind it that has backfired , I said this before though the Lions could have bought Dan Carter it would have made no difference.

  • Comment 113, posted at 16.03.10 07:45:37 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @CoffeeShopBok;-) (Comment 113) :

    Well said CSB. Even the Bulls have signed numerous players from other provinces.

    Look at the number of WP age group players at the union.

  • Comment 114, posted at 16.03.10 08:00:39 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 114) : And former WP players that’s on their coaching staff

  • Comment 115, posted at 16.03.10 08:16:11 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • The Sharks have gone to sh1t since they have started to nuture their own talent and poach from the Lions.
    Just remember how strong they were when they only poached from the VRYSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT! :evil:

  • Comment 116, posted at 16.03.10 13:26:27 by Loosehead Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • @Loosehead (Comment 116) : Ja, your Lions players are the cancer in SA rugby :lol:

  • Comment 117, posted at 16.03.10 13:31:28 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 117) :

    He is actually a Cheaters supporter!! ;-)

  • Comment 118, posted at 16.03.10 13:35:43 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @Loosehead (Comment 116) : oh gee loosehead ;-)

  • Comment 119, posted at 16.03.10 13:39:20 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 118) : Same difference, both good at warming the bottom of the log. ;-)

  • Comment 120, posted at 16.03.10 13:42:16 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 120) : In the past perhaps, how does it feel down there? :smile:

  • Comment 121, posted at 16.03.10 13:50:27 by Loosehead Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • I think that the Tjarks will get their first win of the S14 this weekend.

  • Comment 122, posted at 16.03.10 13:53:54 by Loosehead Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • @Loosehead (Comment 121) : The view sucks, looking at your gat the whole time, not a pretty sight.

    At least while you were down here you weren’t subject to seeing your own gat….then again. :smile:

  • Comment 123, posted at 16.03.10 13:55:21 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @Loosehead (Comment 121) : what team do you support bulls or storms :oops:

  • Comment 124, posted at 16.03.10 13:55:45 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Loosehead (Comment 122) : well i dam well hope so need to change my pic again to something that is alive :razz:

  • Comment 125, posted at 16.03.10 13:56:57 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 123) : aaahhhh :oops: ;-)

  • Comment 126, posted at 16.03.10 13:57:33 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @JustPlainSHARK (Comment 103) : Could not agree with you more. Keo = Mini Malema.

    The thinking goes, I must be popular because everyone is talking about me. Controversy = hits = sponsors for Keo = tenders for Julius!

  • Comment 127, posted at 16.03.10 13:57:44 by Oubaas2009 Reply

    SportbillyVodacom Cup player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 123) : Admitidly I don’t have a great looking gat, so I do apologise for your view. :smile: Rather you than me though!

  • Comment 128, posted at 16.03.10 13:58:23 by Loosehead Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • @Charmaine (Comment 124) : I live under the Mountain, but really battle to support the Stormers. For me it is: Vrystaat, [normally the Sharks but not this year] Bulls, Stormers…………….Lions :?:

  • Comment 129, posted at 16.03.10 14:01:43 by Loosehead Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • @Loosehead (Comment 128) : still waiting my bro what team :oops:

  • Comment 130, posted at 16.03.10 14:01:46 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Loosehead (Comment 129) : You subbed the Sharks for the Bulls…..I’m bitterly disappointed. :cry:

  • Comment 131, posted at 16.03.10 14:15:11 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 131) : well now i know and that is really bad i still stick to sharks beening bb won’t work for me :oops:

  • Comment 132, posted at 16.03.10 14:19:22 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • Let’s leave julius out of this, ok?

  • Comment 133, posted at 16.03.10 14:43:08 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 133) : ok and welkom back :mrgreen:

  • Comment 134, posted at 16.03.10 14:45:47 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 133) : where you go

  • Comment 135, posted at 16.03.10 14:51:15 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Charmaine (Comment 135) : He only came back to crack his whip. :grin:

  • Comment 136, posted at 16.03.10 14:53:08 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 136) : aaahhhh

  • Comment 137, posted at 16.03.10 15:08:19 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 136) : go read it and let me know what you did pretty please :cry:

  • Comment 138, posted at 16.03.10 15:09:40 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • Still on my way to the airport. Flying to Holland

  • Comment 139, posted at 16.03.10 15:33:50 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 139) : Are you hitch hiking or what? You’re taking ages to get there. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 140, posted at 16.03.10 15:38:33 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 139) : no way wish i was you fly all over the world :mrgreen:

  • Comment 141, posted at 16.03.10 15:41:33 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 140) : go read the post waiting for a reply pleaseee :evil:

  • Comment 142, posted at 16.03.10 15:42:52 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Charmaine (Comment 142) : Which post?

  • Comment 143, posted at 16.03.10 15:46:47 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 143) : i look it up and comment then you can see if i can still find it :?: ;-)

  • Comment 144, posted at 16.03.10 15:48:07 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Charmaine (Comment 144) : found it now read :razz:

  • Comment 145, posted at 16.03.10 15:55:18 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • keo`s article has no relevance in the age of professionalism..and mass media..a kid growing up in the klein-karoo can become just as passionate a sharks supporter as a kid growing up in durban ..

  • Comment 146, posted at 16.03.10 16:03:29 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 146) : thats true

  • Comment 147, posted at 16.03.10 16:05:15 by Charmaine Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     

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