Clayton(PJLD)

Bakkies Banned


Written by Clayton Saville (Clayton(PJLD))

Posted in :Bulls, Original Content, Super 14 on 18 May 2010 at 12:03
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Bulls lock Bakkies Botha has been handed a 4 week suspension.

Botha was cited on Sunday by citing commissioner Freek Burger after “entering the ruck without binding to a player” and ramming head first into diminutive Stormers wing Gio Aplon.

The outcome of the hearing was that he had recklessly and dangersously cleaned a ruck and the 4 week suspension was handed out.

Bakkies was captain of the Bulls team for the fixture and was being given match time to get him ready for the semi final and possible finals of the Super 14 competition.

The ban also rules him out of the Springbok tests against France and Wales.



98 Comments

  • Just heard this one on the 94.2, :mrgreen: well bad for the Bulls but like everyone said hang him and i think 4 weeks is too short but he got what he deserves :roll:
    Bukkies you’ll think twice next time and my you got off with a low sentance if it was a shark well we would of banded you for the whole of the CC too :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 1, posted at 18.05.10 12:08:08 by Chaz Reply
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  • Well it is a pity that he misses out on the game against the Saders BUT he fully deserved this suspension.

    I doubt the Bulls will miss him that much though.

    Danie PK has done an excellent stand in job while Bakkies was out injured! :roll:

  • Comment 2, posted at 18.05.10 12:12:29 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 2) : Agree – the big guy is not yet match-fit. Might have cost is in the semi / final ;-)

  • Comment 3, posted at 18.05.10 12:16:12 by diablo Reply

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  • @Chaz (Comment 1) :didn’t you ask yesterday that you hope his sentence is not too harsh and that you wish him luck?? Or was that somone else ?

  • Comment 4, posted at 18.05.10 12:18:13 by Ice Reply
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  • @Ice (Comment 4) : yes it was..comment 2 on the cited thread…

  • Comment 5, posted at 18.05.10 12:20:34 by Ice Reply
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  • i have a hilux 4×4. is it also banned for 4 weeks. is this a drive to make sure there is enough fuel for the world cup?

  • Comment 6, posted at 18.05.10 12:25:31 by try time Reply

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  • @try time (Comment 6) : :|

  • Comment 7, posted at 18.05.10 12:28:33 by provincejoulekkading Reply
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  • i don’t think is such good news :|

  • Comment 8, posted at 18.05.10 12:35:05 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 8) : maybe for streamers if they manage to beat the whiners :mrgreen:

  • Comment 9, posted at 18.05.10 12:35:35 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Ice (Comment 4) : yep but that 4 weeks is not harsh but didn’t say good luck just not to harsh :roll: ;-)

  • Comment 10, posted at 18.05.10 12:39:24 by Chaz Reply

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  • @Ice (Comment 4) :

    Hope SANZAR is not so hard on poor bakkies

    Comment 2, posted at 17.05.10 10:36:51 by Chaz @

  • Comment 11, posted at 18.05.10 12:42:29 by Chaz Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 2) : @diablo (Comment 3) :

    Agree, it’s not as if his exclusion is going to weaken the Bulls team in any way. PK has been the business so far.
    It may even be a blessing in disguise as the temptation to play him would have been great. His banning can also act as a rallying call for the team to play for and so give them extra encouragement.

  • Comment 12, posted at 18.05.10 12:46:20 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • 4 weeks is a pretty hard / harsh sentence 4 someone in rugby terms. In this isnstance, he is missing out on a semi and possible final. Not too hard might mean missing out on one game. IMO.
    Was simply wondering what made you change your mind…that’s all really :wink:

  • Comment 13, posted at 18.05.10 12:50:02 by Ice Reply
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  • Maybe we should ask for Bakkies to be “hung, drawn & quatered” ;-) – sommer so op die rugby-pale by Orlando, dan kan ons n voorbeeld van die [email protected] maak :mrgreen: . Niemand sal dan weer n ou stywe armpie of elmboog gebruik nie. Niemand sal op ander ouens spring waneer hulle n drie druk nie, en bewaar die ou se siel wat n ref “back-chat” :twisted: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 14, posted at 18.05.10 12:55:41 by diablo Reply

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  • @Ice (Comment 13) : its ok ;-) and what changed my mind i didn’t know about the 1st time so me changed and its a game so why all this fighting between the players or can i call it a bad loosing game
    and to top it up a bad looser if me may :razz:

  • Comment 15, posted at 18.05.10 12:57:53 by Chaz Reply

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  • @diablo (Comment 14) : eeee ;-)

  • Comment 16, posted at 18.05.10 12:58:59 by Chaz Reply

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  • @Chaz (Comment 16) : If memory serves me correctly, the incident happened about 2 min into the game so I hardly feel that he was being a bad loser at that stage :roll:

  • Comment 17, posted at 18.05.10 13:04:25 by diablo Reply

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  • @diablo (Comment 17) : true but then he must of known they were going to loose :???: ;-)

  • Comment 18, posted at 18.05.10 13:07:09 by Chaz Reply

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  • “Siener” Botha :?: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 19, posted at 18.05.10 13:09:51 by diablo Reply

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  • @diablo (Comment 19) : eeeee :smile:

  • Comment 20, posted at 18.05.10 13:11:03 by Chaz Reply

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  • @diablo (Comment 19) ::mrgreen:

  • Comment 21, posted at 18.05.10 13:14:17 by Ice Reply
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  • some more news….it seems that Andre Pretorious will be sharks 10 for at least the CC…

  • Comment 22, posted at 18.05.10 13:22:12 by grant10 Reply

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  • @diablo (Comment 14) : @diablo (Comment 19) : The Bulls won’t feel this too much. Flip VD Merwe and Danie should be ample cover.

  • Comment 23, posted at 18.05.10 13:22:14 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 22) : Maybe for the first 20 min of the first game :roll:

  • Comment 24, posted at 18.05.10 13:24:08 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 22) : please do not kick the lying :???:

  • Comment 25, posted at 18.05.10 13:25:59 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 24) : LOL

    If he doesent hurt himself on the flite over….

  • Comment 26, posted at 18.05.10 13:26:34 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 24) : :mrgreen: almost forgot about this one – so now I’m not worried anymore :lol:

  • Comment 27, posted at 18.05.10 13:26:40 by rekinek Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 26) : If he survives the flight then he still has to make it through a couple of training sessions so he might not even make the 1st game :lol:

  • Comment 28, posted at 18.05.10 13:31:00 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 26) : So Grant…do you pick Smit at 1 or 2 for the Boks or leave him out altogether??

  • Comment 29, posted at 18.05.10 13:31:56 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 23) : Agree – those two have been doing the business :mrgreen: Just sad that, yet again, our guys are punished whilst others go scott-free (hello, mr Luaki :?: ) :roll:

  • Comment 30, posted at 18.05.10 13:33:32 by diablo Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 29) :

    Nou krap jy waar jy nie moet nie!! :shock:

    Jy weet mos wat hy gaan sé… :roll:

  • Comment 31, posted at 18.05.10 13:49:00 by wpw Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 24) :
    Thats if he isnt carried off the plane on a stretcher.

  • Comment 32, posted at 18.05.10 13:54:42 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 31) : Ek is verveeld so ek soek so bietjie [email protected] :twisted: ;-)

  • Comment 33, posted at 18.05.10 13:58:50 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 32) :
    Eish, I see this angle has been covered, sorry.

  • Comment 34, posted at 18.05.10 14:01:20 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 22) : please send me email with the source of that info? You’re the second person to tell me that.

  • Comment 35, posted at 18.05.10 14:03:40 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 29) :
    He is bound to land up at 3 some time or other, especially because that is where PDivvy prefers him. So I will understand it if Grant would rather not pick him at all.

  • Comment 36, posted at 18.05.10 14:05:41 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 29) : personally i would pick him at 2…he has been a bit of a revelation since reverting back with Bissy out.

    And he has added a lot of positives to the scrumming effort….which has been the boks achilles heel.

    So…ja…i would pick him at 2 ….for sure.

  • Comment 37, posted at 18.05.10 14:09:15 by grant10 Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 35) : rugby 365

    The Mitchell to Lions thread

  • Comment 38, posted at 18.05.10 14:10:25 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 36) : we will all know when smit moves to 3….

    thats when the turbo reverse begins

  • Comment 39, posted at 18.05.10 14:12:12 by grant10 Reply

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  • Afternoon all

    ….One less for the Saders to worry about.

    Let’s hope Dickinson hits a ruck without binding between now and Saturday. ;-)

  • Comment 40, posted at 18.05.10 14:17:44 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 34) : me thinks we should have bets on how long he’s gonna last. like at tehe beginning of S14. I think I was very close there.

  • Comment 41, posted at 18.05.10 14:19:41 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 40) : afternoon :cool:

  • Comment 42, posted at 18.05.10 14:20:06 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 34) : It’s bad when the first thing that all off us think off is how soon he’ll injure his butt muscle :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 43, posted at 18.05.10 14:23:09 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 37) : @grant10 (Comment 37) : or loosehead…we have some real talent in SA at hooker and I don’t think Smit is any worse than the other looseheads in SA

  • Comment 44, posted at 18.05.10 14:27:10 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 42) : ;-)

  • Comment 45, posted at 18.05.10 14:27:37 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 44) : ja….but with Bissy out i would play either Beast or Guthro at 1.

  • Comment 46, posted at 18.05.10 14:33:00 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 45) : i remember you saying some stuff 5 or 6 weeks ago about the stormers not winning another game.

    I hope you had a cold beer with your humble pie?

  • Comment 47, posted at 18.05.10 14:34:14 by grant10 Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 47) :

    I did i said that before the Force match.

    …and they have been ok since then…. best performance and the one that really impressed me was their performance against the Blues.

    To be honest very little else has since then

    …. i feel they will be up against it on Saturday.

    But in saying that i can’t believe the officials that have been appointed for the Semi…..JOKE

  • Comment 48, posted at 18.05.10 14:39:36 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 48) : Stormers by 8

    Bulls by 15.

    Saders win it will be truly remarkable….that travel schedule is absurd.

    Stormers cruised 2 nd half vs bulls b ….and are looking very comfortable at home.

  • Comment 49, posted at 18.05.10 14:43:51 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 48) : what is the problem with match officials?

  • Comment 50, posted at 18.05.10 14:44:46 by grant10 Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 49) : Neither game is going to be a walk over. The Tah’s have really impressed me in the last game.

  • Comment 51, posted at 18.05.10 14:45:21 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 49) :

    There will be absolutely no excuse for the Saders or Tahs.

    Saders were by far the better team against the Bull two weeks ago and were absolutely robbed…by one of the most ridiculous referring performances you will ever see…. and he got the Final (i think).

    …..i think the Saders may win and win well.

    Tahs will definitely find it harder but are playing well just need the rub of the green with the officials and could be in with a real chance.

  • Comment 52, posted at 18.05.10 14:48:39 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 50) :

    For starters they are all South African ….plus Dickinson

    … and of the South Africans selected they are the ones that have been having shockers recently.

  • Comment 53, posted at 18.05.10 14:50:43 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 53) : I gave you a starting 15 on the other thread as requested

  • Comment 54, posted at 18.05.10 14:51:43 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 51) :

    Tah’s look composed. So do the Stormers though. :???:

  • Comment 55, posted at 18.05.10 14:51:47 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 54) :

    Must go and have a look :cool:

  • Comment 56, posted at 18.05.10 14:52:27 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 52) : that ref hasnt got the final….Craig Joubert has. That ref was jonker. That was a great game…..and saders were very unlucky. Not sure the travel wont hamper the saders….thats just murderous travel.

    Tahs are playing well….but so are stormers…and again…its travel and home ground advantage to what will be a monster newlands crowd. I was there all season and got my semi tickets today….that crowd is fantastic and will be humming….

    Sorry mate…but a all sa final on the cards imo.

  • Comment 57, posted at 18.05.10 14:54:39 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 53) : ja…should be neutral refs…for sure.

  • Comment 58, posted at 18.05.10 14:55:30 by grant10 Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 57) :

    Jonker and kaplan are on the line in both games….there performances in recent week have been shocking and as for Dickinson….his refereeing of the Stormers v Saders game was an absolute disgrace as well.

    Saders will be rapped NOT.

    It should be an all SA final but then again it may not feature a SA side at all.

    I expect the Saders to beat the Bulls…..can’t understand them resting their players last week.

  • Comment 59, posted at 18.05.10 14:59:11 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 58) :

    I’m all for the best Officials you just can’t convince me that Dickinson Jonker and Kaplan would be in that mix !

  • Comment 60, posted at 18.05.10 15:00:52 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 57) :

    Brilliant will look for you on the TV ;-)

    Your right that crowd looks absolutely awesome.

    Should be a really good game as well….just hope the officials stay out of it….bet they can’t resist wrecking it !

  • Comment 61, posted at 18.05.10 15:03:50 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 52) : I think the Bulls will win the semi , but there are few things that would worry me such as the fact that Saders almost beat them and Saders would take lots of confidence from their last game at Loftus and their last game against Brumbies.

    Plus I am not sure whether Bulls won’t loose momentum. Van Der Heever will be missed.

    I think change of venue will not affect the bulls but it may be less intimidating for saders than loftus.

    I don’t believe that ref gonna be biased. If anything he will err on the side of caution and against SA side, which is why I think the neutral ref would be better. But then again saffa refs are the best.

  • Comment 62, posted at 18.05.10 15:06:29 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 60) : no Kaplan but Lawrence

  • Comment 63, posted at 18.05.10 15:08:09 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 62) :

    There is no way Dickinson should be let anywhere near the Saders.

    When he refereed them against the Stormers, he absolutely blew them off the park…..it was absolutely ridiculous. I was amazed the Saders kept going. I loved his first penalty (converted) against the Saders before anyone touched the ball.

    There are lots of factors pointing towards the Saders win….only one obstacle and you know who that is !

  • Comment 64, posted at 18.05.10 15:13:13 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 64) : who :shock:

  • Comment 65, posted at 18.05.10 15:15:50 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 63) :

    Jonker is on the line ! :evil: Kaplan on the line in the other match :twisted:

    Hopefully we don’t see either popping up with a ‘no that wasn’t a forward pass ….it’s a fair try’ ! Call

  • Comment 66, posted at 18.05.10 15:15:58 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 65) : Big Dick :shock:

  • Comment 67, posted at 18.05.10 15:16:47 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 53) :

    Bro, I was watching highlights of the Northhampton vs Saracens game last night and I noticed that Wayne Barnes was the referee.

    I immediately thought of you (If that means anything) :twisted: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 68, posted at 18.05.10 15:19:38 by wpw Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 60) :

    Before the Saders game we won something like 2 out of 10 games reffed by Dickheadson.

    He was a bit ‘over the top’ when we played the Saders but you have to agree that we thrashed them and Dickenson’s decisions aside, there is no way the Saders were even in the game.

    In other words, they deserved to lose!!

  • Comment 69, posted at 18.05.10 15:24:41 by wpw Reply
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  • Bulls vs Crusaders at Orlando Stadium, Soweto
    Referee: Stuart Dickinson
    Assistant referees: Jonathan Kaplan, Reuben Rossouw
    Television match official: Johann Meuwesen

  • Comment 70, posted at 18.05.10 15:26:15 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • Stormers vs Waratahs at Newlands
    Referee: Mark Lawrence
    Assistant referees: Marius Jonker, Cobus Wessels
    Assessor: Shaun Veldsman

  • Comment 71, posted at 18.05.10 15:26:39 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @rekinek (Comment 62) :

    The Saders backline with the exception of Carter and Ellis is VERY inexperienced and most of those youngsters have never played in a S14 semi final.

    I doubt they have what it takes to beat the Bulls!!

  • Comment 72, posted at 18.05.10 15:26:41 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 69) :

    Dickinson reffed them off the park…. you are right i have absolutely no idea how they were even competitive…..loved his card to Read just before halftime time. Would have loved to have seen the first half penalty count.

  • Comment 73, posted at 18.05.10 15:27:58 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 68) : Ouch :lol:

  • Comment 74, posted at 18.05.10 15:28:30 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 68) :

    Still have nightmares …. hate him with a passion. ;-)

  • Comment 75, posted at 18.05.10 15:28:58 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 73) : In the end it was Saders 17 – Stormers 11 if i recall from the Idiot Box.

    I also thought Stuie was a little harsh on the Crusaders, but in retrospect i think he blew consistently – i just think the Stormers played him better

  • Comment 76, posted at 18.05.10 15:30:09 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 72) : the problem is when carter is on song, which he has not been regularly this year.

  • Comment 77, posted at 18.05.10 15:30:22 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 64) :

    The first penalty went against Chris Jack for interfering with the tackler (he blocked the tackler from making contact with the ball carrier)

    Richie McCaw was offside on more than one occasion and was therefore rightfully penalized.

    Next time I suggest you take off those ‘NZ tinted’ glasses when you watch the Saders play SA opposition!! ;-) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 78, posted at 18.05.10 15:31:02 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 72) :

    Start watching their form…Carter and Ellis have been their worst backs

    They were brilliant against the Bulls two weeks back and excellent last weekend.

    They definitely have the measure of the Bulls Backs

    …that’s as long as mullet boy doesn’t go digging in the back of the Saders ruck and doesn’t recieve the odd dive pass to score tries

    ….however with Dicko at the Helm who knows :evil:

  • Comment 79, posted at 18.05.10 15:33:33 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 77) : He’s going well at the moment !

  • Comment 80, posted at 18.05.10 15:35:06 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 76) : @Hertford Highlander (Comment 73) :

    and wasn’t Dickonson reffing Stormers / Sharks game and that did not exactly help stormers

  • Comment 81, posted at 18.05.10 15:35:13 by rekinek Reply
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  • For the whole game:

    Penalties conceded: 28
    Stormers: 12
    Crusaders: 16

    Free kicks conceded
    Stormers: 0
    Crusaders: 13 (2 scrums, 1 mark)

  • Comment 82, posted at 18.05.10 15:36:11 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 78) : First penalty was an absolute JOKE

    ….and one thing is for sure there is nothing consistent about Dickinson

    …and McCaw is on fire at the minute……Class apart !

  • Comment 83, posted at 18.05.10 15:36:52 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 81) : Nah i think the Stormers didn’t help themselves against the Tjorks. The Tjorks also forced us to play like that.

  • Comment 84, posted at 18.05.10 15:38:27 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 82) :

    Interesting….

    ….will be interesting at scrum time ……Saders have the best scrum in the Competition and Dickinson hates scrums ….. just dishes out free kicks for imaginary things.

  • Comment 85, posted at 18.05.10 15:39:14 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • Strict application of the laws is very unfair against kiwi teams.

    How do we expect them to play their normal game if we are going to strictly apply the laws?

  • Comment 86, posted at 18.05.10 15:39:59 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 86) : :roll:

  • Comment 87, posted at 18.05.10 15:42:33 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 85) :

    Via illegal tactics.

    Here they got away with going underneath and scrumming up-and-in as well as an off-side by McCaw.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz4Jy8knqc

  • Comment 88, posted at 18.05.10 15:42:37 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 87) :

    Whenever a referee applies the laws strictly the kiwi commentators deride him as “pedantic”, “bad for the game.”

    I’ve also heard them say: “A good 7 is suppose to test what he can get away with every game.”

  • Comment 89, posted at 18.05.10 15:46:19 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 88) : OMG

    Franks minced them at scrum time

    as for McCaw ….you will have to do better than that.

    ….i think you missed the key blunder in that series of play ! :sad:

  • Comment 90, posted at 18.05.10 15:46:26 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 89) : I don’t think you need to worry about the commentators on Saturday !

  • Comment 91, posted at 18.05.10 15:47:36 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • HH

    Bro are you on a stirring mission?? :lol:

  • Comment 92, posted at 18.05.10 16:12:42 by wpw Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 90) :

    …by scrumming illegally

    … a loose forward that unbinds before the ball is out is off-side.

    … “key” and “blunder” as viewed from New Zeeland.

  • Comment 93, posted at 18.05.10 16:33:50 by fyndraai Reply
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  • New Zeeland teams finished the round robin phase placed 4th, 7th, 8th, 11th and 12th.

    That is very bad considering they had 3 teams in the semis last year and 4 in the top 7 is typical.

    The main reason for this is the idea of strict application of the laws. It neutralized New Zeeland’s biggest advantage.

  • Comment 94, posted at 18.05.10 16:42:55 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 94) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 95, posted at 18.05.10 18:20:48 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 91) :

    I remember last year the kiwis sent their own commentators for the finals and the 3N.

    The mood in the commentary box was all black. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 96, posted at 18.05.10 21:40:10 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Sorry, but I have watched this clip so many times, and apart from entering from the side, he didn’t do anything different to what everyone else clearing a ruck does! This stinks of a stitch up.

  • Comment 97, posted at 19.05.10 09:19:56 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 96) :

    Is that right ….sounds like a jolly.

    Let’s hope they keep them at home this year.

    Maybe we need neutral commentators as well. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 98, posted at 19.05.10 09:23:23 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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