Having had almost two days for the Bok selection for the Wales test to sink in, I must admit that I’m still scratching my head about it, to a large extent. While it’s not really a bad team per se, there just doesn’t seem to be any real common thread to many of the choices.
We’ve heard various theories in the build-up to the announcement, mostly along the lines of how the Bulls and Stormers player wouldn’t feature, assuming they made the Super 14 play-offs. We’ve also heard that the test match against Wales would be used as an opportunity to assess some of our foreign-based talent. While Peter de Villiers certainly has seen fit to include a whopping 6 overseas-based players, we also see a good number of players in the team who will be somewhat knackered after playing in the Super 14 final a week before.
There are some good picks, though – let’s not take that away from the coach. Francois Louw has been superb all season and certainly deserves a test start, although I’m not sure why he’s playing at open-side flank when he’s operated (with distinction) on the other side of the scrum all season. Gio Aplon and Juan de Jongh are two other players who have been consistent performers in an exciting Stormers backline and it’s good to see that form rewarded. Jannie du Plessis and particularly Alistair Hargreaves have also been in fine form for the Sharks over the last few weeks and it will be interesting to see the latter, in particular, in the test arena.
There are a few calls that I simply can’t fathom, though. Why is Joe van Niekerk there? To my mind, it really doesn’t matter how well he’s playing for Toulon, because we have more than enough quality loose forwards plying their trade in the Super 14. Duane Vermuelen, for instance, is a far more sensible pick for the future (Willem Alberts would be as well, but he’s injured) and I also can’t really see the logic in picking Ryan Kankowski on the bench. The same argument applies to Butch James’s selection at inside centre. James is not a 12 and is also on his last legs (quite literally) so what the Boks have to gain from playing him there mystifies me to an extent.
To my mind, if you’re going to make an unorthodox selection, it should always be to learn something, or to achieve a particular purpose. I fail to see what we learn in picking James out of position at this stage of his career.
My only other gripe is at loosehead prop, where CJ van der Linde is is picked out-of-position ahead of the in-form Beast Mtawarira. I find myself wondering if Beast’s eligibility problems might not be ongoing, in which case it may be a while before we see him in the green and gold again.
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amazing! Not a single (current) Lions player in the squad.
@robdylan (Comment 1) : All things considered, is it really that amazing?
@FireTheLooser (Comment 2) : no – I guess it isn’t.
I mean, who would you actually pick?
I think Butch’s selection at 12 might serve as a confidence boost for Pienaar, Div is probably hoping Pienaar will be more at ease with Butch next to him.
But Div selected January?! All the confidence that Butch’s selection might have instilled will be undone by the fatman.
Joe from-no-church’s selection is on the brain dead side of life, maybe Div selected some of these guys merely to mix experience with the youth, always good to have experience combine with youth. Never a good idea to have too much of the one (you know who you are….Sharks…..snoiL
)
@robdylan (Comment 3) : Ummmmmmmmmmmm, Dick Muir?
Vermaak
Heinke
Chavangha
Rose
bwahahahahahahaha
@wpw (Comment 6) : Damnit I forgot about Rose, luckily we’ve not been subjected to another Rose selection.
That alone makes this a very satisfying selection.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 4) : Joe from -no church.
ah, it’s good to laugh on a Monday morning.
So considering you wanted to pick some players playing in Europe and no bulls and stormers, except I guess players you wanted to give a chance that does not usually get picked. How would your bok 22 have looked for the wales game.
I’d like to see the wise men’s opinions.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 7) :
I heard that Rose is wanted by the Sharks!!
He can play 10,12 and 15.
i think this is a great squad. it gives players overseas a taste of the bok jerseys again. reminding them what they are missing and if they want first dibs at a rwc position, play well in this game, and move back to sa. it also give pdiv a chance to chat to the players without the quagmire frollicking agents around to sour relations. but more importantly it gives the front line players a break before another hectic season and it gives the second stringers a chance to impress pdiv. last year our replacements let us down, this year we need to find guys that won’t.
Why is SA looking so bleak at 13…we’ll have to convert Kanko or Keegan into a great outside center. Jacque Fourie is our only quality 13…and Adi, but he’ll probably go after the WC.
and what i love most is we have done to the nh teams what they do to us and that is bring a c team to play.
@Letgo (Comment 12) : jaco pretorius is very good. you don’t get to see much of him because morne and wynand hang onto the ball too long.
The person i feel sorry for is Ruan – he is going to be the scapegoat if this goes pear shaped.
I would have picked Lambie at 15, I’d like to see how he goes in an international game…if not Lambie then Joe Pieterson who’s been playing really good rugby this year. Steyn would have been my last pick at 15 since he hasn’t played any or hardly any rugby in that position.
I can see why most are picked.
WHat I cannot fathom is the selection of Chiliboy and January.
@Letgo (Comment 16) : Steyns been playing plenty of good rugby – you cannot afford to leave him out – anyone who can get you three points from 60m out makes the opposistion nervous.
@Morné (Comment 17) : No-one can – Ricki has at least been on the park – wihtout much success – CB looks like he might be the new splinters. Which sucks – he looked talented.
@Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 18) :
Correct.
I would have tried to use this game to blood a new 4, 6, 12 and 15, if possible. We’ve missed that boat.
Gio Aplon at 14, he deserves it. Good player, I’d like to see how he goes at international level. Basson as back-up.
@Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 18) : I didn’t say I wouldn’t pick him. Just not 15.
Ja, basson is another good pick. Quality player.
@Morné (Comment 17) : teachers pets?
13. Looks bleak as I said. I wouldn’t mind seeing how JdV goes there. Maybe Jaco Pretorius, but I personally haven’t been impresses with him so far. Not enough continuity in game time. Would rather have givem that kid that filled in for him a run there or even Steyn. I don’t like playing guys out of position, but it might be necessary to see if Wynand can’t maybe fill that gap. I also like how Corne Uys from the cheetahs and Walter Venter from the Lions goes at 13. So those would have been my options. With JdV probably getting tipped at the end.
@Morné (Comment 17) : simple januarie is the scape goat if we lose and chiliboy is there to get him injured early so he isn’t around when we need our a team.
@try time (Comment 11) :
All of what you said and affording Dick the opportunity to do some active recruiting to bolster the Lions and at the same time save some face as a coach.
12. Frans Steyn…he and Jacque Fourie made one of SA’s best combo’s during the world cup, I’d like to see that combo at one point again. And as someone said before, can’t leave Steyn out, Lure him back. Juan de jong…who’s name I can’t spell… is the definite other choice. Wynand Olivier was the other in form 12.
Why is this match taking place anyway !
….aren’t they meant to visit us at this time of the year !
PS This Boks debacle of a side better win
11. Mvovo has some serious speed and talent, I would have given him a go. Why play Odwa…we already know what we have in him. Odwa can be back-up, but Basson should actually get a run from the bench so not even that. If not Mvovo, I would have picked any other young wing who has shown potential, not Owda.
@Letgo (Comment 23) : My bad – sorry assumed you didn’t want to pick him.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 30) : So it’s a all SA final…you never saw that one coming did you?
10. Maybe I won’t be very popular, but Butch. Because even if Ruan and Morne is our 10′s I’d like to see Butchies experience there. He took us to a WC victory once and I don’t think it would be a bad thing to see how he’s playing now.
After hearing that Ruan is leaving the Sharks I don’t want to see him in a 10 jersey ever again. Anyway when Fdp leaves he’s the best option at 9 and Morne and Grant will make decent 10 for the future. Ruan just needs to stay in the country, because he won’t be picked playing in Europe.
…maybe in the last 20min or so I would have given Steyntjie a run at 10 with …can’t spell his name, de jong next to him. Looking to the future a team of 9ruan10steyn12de jong looks pretty good.
http://www.sportingo.com/rugby-union/a13129_south-africas-green-party-celebration-all-blacks-expense
For anyone interested.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 30) : @Pokkel (Comment 33) :
Yeh HH! Stop trying to change the subject of the Great Antipodean Shutout!
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 30) :
SARU + Greed = Additional test against Wales
9. Ruan…he is second best and close t best in the country in this position and needs to be left alone to play there. in 18months time when Fdp leaves we’re gonna which we made him our back-up Bok scrummy a long time ago.
As far as a 9 back-up for this game. I like Sarel, and Dewald…I also think Houghaard is a really talented player, but won’t pick him due to the fact that he played 11 all year long. So I guess Sarel as back-up. He deserves it. Good scrummy.
8. Kanko…no doubt. from-no-church would not have featured in my team. (still laughing at that one… am I lame)Duanne and Alberts are the other 8′s. Might have had Duanne on my bench but only since Alberts are injured. I don’t like Duane.
@Pokkel (Comment 33) :
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 30) : Apparently it’s a 10-year celebration of the Millenium Stadium and they’ve asked us to play cos the opening game was against us and it was the only time they’ve beaten us in 104 years of rugger. However, that game was on 26 June 1999.
7. Francois Louw, why Div insists on playing him out of position baffles me. Deysel is just behind him…to bad smith’s not available, still rates him as one of the best 7 in world rugby right now.
6. Botes…how this guy doesn’t have one Bok cap behind his name I just don’t get. Even with all the talent in SA, no one can deny the quality Botes brings to a team. He was the best 6 in SA behind Schalk burger, so why choose a guy out of position.
If Botes had a good run in this game, which I don’t don’t, he would not have doubted for a second to take him with me to 2011WC. Even just as a benchy or a solid cover. How ever and when ever you use him, he never disappointed.
5. Bekker is Matfield’s successor I don’t think anyone would disagree there, but I would have given Hargreaves the start with Bekker of the bench, since he just played or would have just played a final and we all know that he can do it at international level. I would have liked to see how Hargreaves goes.
4. We know Danie Rossouw, why pick him there…don’t see what you would learn out of this, or is he there to make sure we win? No pick Sykes or Fondse, two players for the future.
3. Smit…to captain the team, and why would you pick him at 2, when he’s not going to play there when Bismark returns. Get a decent back-up for Bissie. We can’t just always rely on smit to cover all the front row positions. Jannie on the bench.
2. Tiaan Liebenberg, had areally good season and deserves the call up…or Gary Botha. He strengthens the scrum and I would have liked to see him have a go with smit. Doen fourie or Britz on the bench. Same type of players, I’ll pick the guy who played in SA.
1. Beast, like Rob said and I thought Brok Harris had a good season. Was I wrong? I like BJ, but why would you pick the guy when he doesn’t want to budge on his decision to play abroad? You’re just wasting your time.
@Pokkel (Comment 33) :
No not really… Stormers a real surprise package for me !
They have done very well….one more step for the job to be complete !
@klempie (Comment 36) :
No the Sa Teams have done very well this year.
Just looking at the stat’s they appear a lot older on average than the NZ Sides !
Saders just gave the Bulls to much of a head start !
….were never in it !
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 50) : The Boks will be on average a lot older than the ABs or Wallabies come 2011. However, NZ is unfortunately just not pulling it together at the moment. The real threat will come from the Aussies. I just hope big match experience will see the Boks through if we face them.
So this is what my team would have looked like…
15. Patrick Lambie
14. Gio Aplon
13. Jean de Villiers
12. Frans Steyn
11. Lwazi Mvovo
10. Butch James
9. Ruan Pienaar
8. Ryan Kankovski
7. Francois Louw
6. Jacques Botes
5. Alister Hargreaves
4. Steven Sykes
3. John Smit(C)
2. Tiaan Liebenberg
1. Beast Mtawarira
16. Gary Botha
17. Jannie Du Plessis
18. Andries Bekker
19. Duane Vermuelen/Jean Deysel
20. Sarel Pretorius
21. Juan de Jongh
22. Stephan Dippenaar/Walter Venter/Corne Uys
…do you like me more or less than SNOR???
@klempie (Comment 51) :
I don’t think you need to worry to much about the AB’s pulling it together the Aussies look potentially good.
France will be strong as well.
The thing about the NZ side is that it is very settled.
There will be very few bolters……hopefully Sonny Bill Williams may come through on the end of year tour if he signs.
….not many others maybe Victor Vito…but that’s a long shot !
@klempie (Comment 51) : Don’t forget the French, they are a really good team at the moment.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 53) : NZ may be settled, but I think the expectation will simply be too much for them. A pity cos they are my second favourite side. I think there are only two other teams in it and that’s Aussie and SA mainly because of their experience in NZ and expat support.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 53) : It would be nice to see SBW in a black jersey but I have a feeling he is playing for the highest bidder and Toulon can provide the funds. I have seen him play a few times for Toulon and while he still has a bit to learn he is going to be much much better in a couple of years.
@lostfish (Comment 56) :
I think SBW will sign with the NZRFU in July…and will be on the end of year tour.
…..and if that happens will be in the RWC Squad
How far is this off the Bok for the RWC Final
15 Kircnher
14 Habana
11 JP Pietersen
13 Fourie
12 De Villiers
10 Steyn
9 FD Preez
8 Spies
7 Burger
6 Brussow
5 Matfield
4 Bekker
3 Smit
2 Du Plessis
1 Matawira
…am i miles out !
@Letgo (Comment 43) : If Botes had a good run in this game, which I don’t doubt he would have, I would not have doubted for a second to take him with me to 2011WC. Even just as a benchy or a solid cover. How ever and when ever you use him, he never disappoints
very confusing paragraph fixed…
AB’s in the same Final
15 Miliania
14 Sivitatu
11 Mesaga
13 Smith
12 Nonu
10 Carter
9 Cowan
8 Read
7 McCaw
6 Thompson
5 Donnelly
4 Thorn
3 Tialata
2 Hore
1 Woodcock
….am i miles out here as well.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 58) : You’ll have to have Frans Steyn in there somewhere I’d imagine….at 15 or 12.
I think JdV is sadly past his best.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 58) : Kircnher, Brussouw…don’t think they’ll start. See Juan smith at 7 and not Kircnher at 15, probably Frans Steyn if he’s willing to come back to SA. That’s what SNOR would hope.
@Letgo (Comment 52) :
I’ve always liked you more
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 58) :
You’ve been around us for far too long you closet Bok supporter you!!!
Bakkies will be at 4
Steyn SHOULD be at 15. If not I think Div might go with Joe Pietersen
Juan Smith should also own the no 7 jersey
Smit at 3?? I am not so sure hey!!
@klempie (Comment 61) : @Letgo (Comment 62) :
On Steyn ….i think he is not a 15 or 10 but a 12
….but would he push JDV out…if he comes back which i’m sure he would.
….i have even been really impressed with Olivier this year.
@wpw (Comment 64) :
Steyn for 12
@wpw (Comment 64) :
Very closet ….make that very, very closet !
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 60) : Don’t know the AB’s that well, but I would imagine Rockoko would be 11. Don’t see masaga there at all. I don’t know that they would start with Thompson and Read, both smaller players…I see a player like Kaino there. 2. Hore? Don’t the AB alsways start with Meulamu and then bring Hore on?
5.Donnally – maybe anthony boric, but like I said. Don’t know the AB’s so well.
@wpw (Comment 64) : Why not Smit is a great 3?
I have bad feeling we are going to lose this match
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 63) : Hey thanks.
@Letgo (Comment 68) :
You need to stick to the Boks
@wpw (Comment 64) : Hey I missed that he sneaked Bekker in there at 4. No doubt bakkies at 4. But I do think john will be at 3.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 57) : I am hoping so, doesn’t he have to prove himself in the club competition first?
@Letgo (Comment 68) :
Rokocoko probably not !
Kaino…..good call will go head to head with Thompson
PS Read is not small…will be the Starting Number 8 and Captain of the Side after the RWC
@Pokkel (Comment 69) :
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 65) : I agree, he’s a 12, but he won’t play Jdv out and you can’t leave him out of the team and SA has a little no owning that 15 jersey, so steyn needs to be there.
@lostfish (Comment 74) :
Yes will play in the National Provincial Championship !
July onwards
@Letgo (Comment 77) :
Would be handy to have a Fullback !
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 72) : @Hertford Highlander (Comment 75) : So it wasn’t that bad after all. I got one right.
Read is taller and doesn’t get go forward as much as other short loosies with a lower center of gravity. All I wanted to say, with those loosies you’re missing someone to really hit it up and drive over the advantage line, but Thompson is a talented player and the AB selectors have favoured him recently.
Why not Rokocoko (how do remember how many ko’s and co’s to add…impossible) experience and good s14 season, the other guy is Wulf. I don’t rate Masaga, does the AB selectors?
How bout Boric, who does Donnelly play for? Highlanders? I know Thrush and Retallick, Triggs…Donnelly I should know this right?
@Letgo (Comment 77) : What am i writing “SA has a little no owning that 15 jersey” makes no sense – so basically what I was trying to say was that no one in SA has made that 15 jersey their own like Jdv with 12 and Fourie with 13, Matfield 5, Fdp 9 and most of the others. 15 right now is kind of vacant and up for grabs to any player who wants it.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 79) : Yip…just to clear that up, we do have some talented players in that position. Zane is not bad, Joe Pieterson had a good season, Aplon played well there when Joe left, and Lambie shows a lot of talent and could be the guy to play there in the future.
I won’t feel comfortable if any of these guys had to play there during the WC though.
@Letgo (Comment 82) : Depends a lot on Lambie’s second Super 14/15 season. If he can build on this year, then he may be the answer for the WC.
@Letgo (Comment 80) :
Your not too far off the mark.
Donnelly a Highlander …Yes
Mesasga is the goods…..but Wilf has played really well this Year, i’m also a fan of Hosea Gear.
The AB Selectors are all for playing Fullbacks on the wings these days…….guys that can go to altitude and catch a Garry Owen.
…so they like guys like Corey Jane, and Ben Smith there is Izzy Dagg this year, as well who will be pushing hard !
@MysticShark (Comment 83) : I think I’d be comfortable with a 20 year old that has no international experience under his belt playing any position in the WC. So if he is the answer, he needs to be picked now so we can see what he’s worth at a higher level. No use waiting for him to get his first cap in the WC.
@Letgo (Comment 85) : I don’t think I would be comfortable.
@Pokkel (Comment 33) : Rub it in boyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 58) : No, I think your out by a few kilometers
congratulations to the blue bulls, deserved winners on the day! They played a risk-free game & executed it well. Our outside backs were found wanting when morne & du preez rained bomb after bomb of the boks favoured kick & chase
@Megatron (Comment 89) :
As I was supporting the Bulls and there are no other supporters around here I take your congratulations with humility on their behalf. Thank you.
It was a bloody great performance.
I rather like that this game is being used to give our regular boks a bit of the rest especially since most will be involved in the Super 14 final.
I’m happy to see Frans back in the team no matter at what position, he makes the opposition worry. Gio deserves his spot, he might be small, but he definately showed he does not lack courage to make the tackles, but I can’t help but ask if courage is enough to bring down a Sivivatu or Rocokoko or Messaga?
@Megatron (Comment 89) : Don’t admit it, the Nulle are still a bunch of brandy-and-coke drinking dutchman.
You can take the Nulle out of loftus, but you can’t take the loftus out of the Nulle.
@MB1810 (Comment 91) : Yes, Frans does make the opposition worry, for various reasons.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 92) : So true, which made their win so much sweeter.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 92) :
@Salmonoid (Comment 94) : I think a certain closet Nul is on the verge of getting out of the closet.
Another glory hunting rat gets set to jump ship
@Salmonoid (Comment 90) :
I mean supporting one thing but accepting congrats
@FireTheLooser (Comment 96) : and the excuse is – it’s good for SA rugby
@rekinek (Comment 98) : Blou Nul rugby will never be good for SA rugby.
The last time me and my sister talked was when the Sharks lost to the Nulle, I’ll never ever support those plonkers.
I’ll be less disappointed when the Streamers win the S14, but it still won’t replace the empty feeling of not having my beloved Sharks there.