KSA Shark ©

Euro Boks ‘well below par’

Written by Andre Bosch (KSA Shark ©)

Posted in :In the news, Springboks on 7 Jun 2010 at 18:09
Tagged with : , , , , , ,

Springbok coach Peter de Villiers took aim at the standards of rugby in Europe on Monday, when he said that the South African players from abroad are behind their domestic counterparts.

De Villiers, addressing a media gathering in Cape Town ahead of the one-off Test against France on Saturday, left no doubt about his feeling regarding players who continue to ply their trade in Europe.

De Villiers pointed to the form displayed by French-based stars like Frans Steyn and Joe van Niekerk, as well as Irish-based players like CJ van der Linde and BJ Botha, in the 34-31 win over Wales at the weekend when he took aim at the Euro standards.

The Bok coach had initially names six players in the squad who played in Europe and Ireland – with Jean de Villiers (injured) and Butch James (ruled ineligible by Premier Rugby) missing the Cardiff Test.

While James, De Villiers and Botha were named in the squad for the remainder of the Boks’ June internationals, Van Niekerk, Steyn and Van der Linde have been axed from the squad.

De Villiers said Steyn was always only going to play the one Test, but admitted that the form of the Euro players also contributed to his latest team selection.

“I had a chat with Frans Steyn and we agreed that he will play this one game only,” De Villiers said, when quizzed about the Racing Metro utility back.

But he did not hold back when discussing the general standard of club rugby in the Northern Hemisphere.

“I was criticised for not bringing back players from abroad,” De Villiers said, adding: “But if you sit down and watch the game [against Wales] very closely, you will see the players from abroad were off the boil.

“They didn’t have the pace to play the game, they are not up there [up to standard] were they normally are.

“That is what overseas, especially Europe, are doing to our players.

“They won’t come back and be at the same level as the guys that are here [in South Africa]. We all saw that on Saturday.”

De Villiers admitted that Steyn will have to make a decision soon about his future, as his standards will continue to slip.

“That is why I am very worried about Frans [Steyn],” the Bok coach said, adding: “I don’t know if he should stay there for very long, if he wants to remain the best in the world.

“He and I had a nice chat and we have to make some decisions going forward – more him than me.

“When he left here he was the best in the world.

“He struggled a bit on Saturday, and you can see why – the level they play over there is so much slower.

“We can’t afford to miss a beat. The people in this country expects us to be the best on the world.”

He also made it clear that while Steyn was undoubtedly one of the best, if not the best, players in the world, he is not irreplaceable.

“I don’t want to get caught up in individual performances – no doubt he [Steyn] is a brilliant player, and I’ll say it any time, but he is not irreplaceable.

“Look at the one Super 14 game, when Cheetahs fullback Rian Viljoen slotted a penalty from 60 metres. We do have players that can do those kind of brilliant things.”

Asked about other Euro-based players, like Van Niekerk, De Villiers said he will only look at those players if nobody is left in South Africa.

He said a player like Jean de Villiers was always going to return to South Africa and that is why he remained in ok frame.

“I had a long chat with Jean de Villiers after he signed [for Munster] and I knew from the outset he will be back by June 1,” De Villiers said.

The Bok coach also confirmed the well-know fact that James will to do everything in his power to come back to South Africa, but is tied up with Bath till 2012.

“We must support those players [who want to come back], but what we must understand is that if the players don’t play in the Super 14, they won’t be ready … unless we put them on special programmes. And how will you achieve that if they play for other people.

“We all saw it [that they are below par], I saw it on Saturday.”

Article courtesy of Rugby 365 editor Jan De Koning.


  • So essentially Butch is being given a chance to prove that he is not “below par”

    He may have foot in mouth but at least PdV is giving Butch a chance. :cool:

  • Comment 1, posted at 07.06.10 18:12:27 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 1) : PdV is an idiot. The more he talks the dumber he sounds. I have no confidence in him whatsoever.

  • Comment 2, posted at 07.06.10 18:50:34 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
  • @lostfish (Comment 2) :

    Forget about what he sounds like and what he says. He has delivered the required results and until he starts failing i will be a supporter of his.

  • Comment 3, posted at 07.06.10 19:19:28 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • Well reading this thread very carefully and had a look at the game on sat F Steyn well wasn’t up his game like we new him when he played WC2007 and that for me to say is :sad: because stime he must come back but what i want to know is why Butchie get a chance and not Steyn is both contracts not up in 2012 :???: :?:

  • Comment 4, posted at 07.06.10 19:24:53 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 1) : i’m glad that butchie is getting a chance but why can’t F Steyn given stime i think hell back his game don’t you think :???: ;-)

  • Comment 5, posted at 07.06.10 19:26:11 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 3) : I’m sorry… unless he’s sharp enough to use reverse psych effectively, saying Frans Steyn is worse than he was when he played here is pure madness. Not only is he not helping the youngsters confidence… he’s adding to the French fans’ fire to keep him in France.

    From the French he hears how god he’s doing… from his own he hears how his going backward… Where would YOU play?

    And if Frans was so off form… why pick him in the first place? So he could slot a long range penalty that ended up being the difference between winning and losing… no no… think before one speaks…

  • Comment 6, posted at 07.06.10 19:28:49 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @SandTiger (Comment 6) :

    He is also giving Steyn a GOOD reason to come back to Sa and making the message pretty clear for others, if you leave SA your game drops below par. Stay here and stay on par.

  • Comment 7, posted at 07.06.10 19:34:35 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • @SandTiger (Comment 6) :

    How many, and the ARE many, SA hasbeens or neverwas’ (I don’t count Frans as either) have gone to Europe and then everyone calls for them to be Boks becasue they are playing such good rugby over there?

    Of course they play good rugby over there!! The NH hardly ever has 2 teams capable of beating SA Aus or NZ, becasue their Rugby is KAK. Of Course our Hasbeens are going to look good over there, but looking good by French or POM standards does not mean you will be good enough for SA standards.

  • Comment 8, posted at 07.06.10 19:38:02 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • Brad Barrit is a classic example. Would he be making the Bok squad ahead of our current crop of De Jongh, Fourie, Olivier, JdV (And Steyn possibly).

    AN EMPHATIC NO!!!!! Yet in England there is an outcry because he was the best center in the GP but was not chosen to play for England with all and sundry accusing Johnson of not picking him because he is a South African.

  • Comment 9, posted at 07.06.10 19:41:28 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 7) : now that is so true wanted to comment to sth like that but left it :???:
    now i thought going abroad is to up your game but now i understand it breaks your game and that for the money :???:

  • Comment 10, posted at 07.06.10 19:43:07 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 9) : Point taken… but then you get Percy. He left to go play in Wales because, well he was,as you so eloquently put it, to kak to play here… what happened? He came back a solid player that not only tackled and ran at and through defenses, he also kicked like a donkey.

    Frans would do well with some French flair. He has it in him and needs it developed. What we need is someone smart enough to hone that flair for the good of SA rugby.

    I dont’ deny that Europe is a retirement village, but that hardly applies in the case where any player is still in his early twenties.

  • Comment 11, posted at 07.06.10 20:04:14 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 9) : Barritt, unfortunately never lived up to his potential.

  • Comment 12, posted at 07.06.10 20:05:30 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • Who knows… maybe he’s the next Mike Catt and we’ll all say “he wasn’t even good enough to get a contract at a large union /franchise in SA” while he puts his second behind the post in a WC semi

  • Comment 13, posted at 07.06.10 20:07:59 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @SandTiger (Comment 12) :

    He is NOW The Best in England. :cool:

    BUT still at least #5 in SA. :sad:

    The GAP is HUGE.

  • Comment 14, posted at 07.06.10 20:08:57 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
  • @SandTiger (Comment 11) : that part about monty grammy is well known as the truth
    well he been there for s time and i don’t know maybe moeg from the flight but gee i don’t see that what happened to our guy from best to middle no way F Steyn its not good in the end
    come back i think the youngster could need you and my the Sharks need you too but if not well lambie is there

  • Comment 15, posted at 07.06.10 20:11:50 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • If he’s #5 and ever runs on for England and happens to show our better 4 how bad we are… some of us would need to eat a hat ;)

  • Comment 16, posted at 07.06.10 20:13:08 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @chaz (Comment 15) : Frans is playing most of his rugby at n.10 in France… don’t we need one of those? :grin:

  • Comment 17, posted at 07.06.10 20:14:41 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 14) : There is no I in team… he may make up a vital part of a potentially potent England squad… (DID I JUST SAY ‘ENGLAND’ and ‘POTENT’ IN THE SAME SENTENCE???)

    I’m so ashamed!

  • Comment 18, posted at 07.06.10 20:16:40 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @chaz (Comment 15) : Also, could be partly the reason why he didn’t shape to all of your expectations… he didn’t play at 15 all that often…

    I still think he did us proud. Much more so than some of the others.

  • Comment 19, posted at 07.06.10 20:18:54 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @SandTiger (Comment 17) : oh yes we do and F Steyn can play good in 15 and 10 so what do we do get him fired in France but how ;-)

  • Comment 20, posted at 07.06.10 20:23:30 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @SandTiger (Comment 19) : agreeme was a great fan of his and it hurt when he went but it will be good to get him back to :lol:

  • Comment 21, posted at 07.06.10 20:25:43 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • Let me call his agent quickly… or go speak to his dad… they farm in Bethelem area and its on the way to my in-laws in Fouriesburg

  • Comment 22, posted at 07.06.10 20:26:19 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @chaz (Comment 21) : You know the lill’ shite called me OOM? I was shocked… I’m just 31

  • Comment 23, posted at 07.06.10 20:27:10 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @SandTiger (Comment 19) : but was that not the problem when he played for the boks and sharks in 10 and then in 15 the poor kid could not find his play :?: :smile:

  • Comment 24, posted at 07.06.10 20:27:14 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @chaz (Comment 24) : exactly… now PDivvy, in stead of making excuses on his behalf is crucifying the lad… not right, is it? I kinda understand why Frans is a bit peeved

  • Comment 25, posted at 07.06.10 20:32:47 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @SandTiger (Comment 22) : well thats great my kids and hubby are all ovs but go and phone them i sometimes think they won’t listen i think if its like this then he is waisting his time :???:

  • Comment 26, posted at 07.06.10 20:33:27 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @SandTiger (Comment 23) : Got good manners still getting the hang of this tannie thing the age might not be there but my word i’m not old ;-)

  • Comment 27, posted at 07.06.10 20:34:59 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • Not really wasting time if you do what you love…

  • Comment 28, posted at 07.06.10 20:35:43 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @SandTiger (Comment 25) : i would too so he must just leave Lambie alone at 15 the lad has class :mrgreen:

  • Comment 29, posted at 07.06.10 20:36:08 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @SandTiger (Comment 28) : thats true but if to think a person goes over for the money and leaves your birth land for that and gets nearlly back in but then to slow is it werth it in the end :???:

  • Comment 30, posted at 07.06.10 20:42:04 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @chaz (Comment 30) : I see it like chosing the wrong field of study at university… you have to make absolutely sure its not for you before changing courses. Frans probably wnet there to learn and is now making absolutely sure its the right thing

  • Comment 31, posted at 07.06.10 20:45:37 by SandTiger Reply

    SandTigerUnder 19 player
  • @SandTiger (Comment 31) : true but in the end would it of helped :???:

  • Comment 32, posted at 07.06.10 20:53:40 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • the funny thing is that even when he was @ the sharks francois never played @ 15 regularly. The 1st ever coach that played him @ 15 regularly is peter de villiers and the next thing francois goes to france plays 2 or so games @ fullback and then moves to inside centre and tells the WHOLE world that his preferred position is inside centre and that he must be selected for the Boks even though he plays overseas.

    Conrad Jantjes was the incumbent 15 in 2008 and if he didn’t break his leg francois would have been a bench warmer/utility player like he always was.

  • Comment 33, posted at 07.06.10 21:05:12 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
  • @Megatron (Comment 33) : oh megatron
    maybe true but what the hell i’m off to bed with a glass of OB sherry and leave the learning for 2 morrow all i did say is
    :mrgreen: GO SPRING BOKS :mrgreen:

  • Comment 34, posted at 07.06.10 21:09:43 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
  • @chaz (Comment 34) : nite Chaz ;)

  • Comment 35, posted at 07.06.10 21:34:08 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
  • Frans Steyn is overrated! The guys has talent but he is by no means one of our better Bok players and he is far too inconsistent!
    People are creaming in their pants cos he slotted a 60m drop goal a few ago and yet they didn’t bother to watch the rest of the game to see how average he was.
    I’m sorry but people need to calm the hell down.
    He has a cack attitude and thinks he is bigger than the team. We don’t need players who want the Bok coach to come begging for them to play for thei country.

  • Comment 36, posted at 07.06.10 22:35:36 by wpw Reply
    wpwAssistant coach
  • Amen wes

  • Comment 37, posted at 07.06.10 22:43:40 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
  • What exactly are you lot disagreeing with PDV about?

    That the Southern hemisphere leagues are harder?
    That playing in an easier league is not good for the players?
    That SA players have shown better form?
    That guys should come play in SA if they want to make the team?

    He was pressured to play the Northern-based guys, and they didn’t blow anybody away. Frans Steyn certainly was worse than the last time he pulled on a Bok jersey. The coach acknowledges his precocious talent and then advises him to come home; how is this a sin?

    Some times I think people just look for something to chirp PDV about; irrespective of validity.

  • Comment 38, posted at 07.06.10 22:58:30 by Big Fish Reply
    Big FishAssistant coach
  • that would explain Schalk Brits awards :evil:

  • Comment 39, posted at 07.06.10 23:31:49 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinekTeam captain
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 3) : that’s true – so far he has a very good record as a coach. his enemies will however argue that this is because he inherited such a good team and also that SA rugby seems to be well above the rest.

    I am not particularly unhappy with the man but your blood boils when you see the substitutes instead of contributing making a mess.

  • Comment 40, posted at 07.06.10 23:34:58 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinekTeam captain
  • @SandTiger (Comment 17) : wasn’t he supposed to play 12?

  • Comment 41, posted at 07.06.10 23:39:45 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinekTeam captain
  • on a different subject – can we have WC SB pool :cool:

  • Comment 42, posted at 07.06.10 23:41:00 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinekTeam captain
  • @Megatron (Comment 33) : I don’t think Frans ever said that fullback is his preferred position. It was always 12 or 10 but mostly 12.

  • Comment 43, posted at 07.06.10 23:45:27 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinekTeam captain
  • @rekinek (Comment 43) :i never suggested that he said that, all i am saying is that he knew where peter had plans for him and had managed him so well, even francois in his many interviews said this was the best any coach had managed him, letting him know exactly what he has planned for him. Then francois moves to france where the play him in a position the springbok coach has NO plans for him, and still he demands to be picked for the boks from france!

    @rekinek (Comment 40) : harry viljoen inherited Mallet’s 17 game winning streak team, what did he do with it? Please tell me?

  • Comment 44, posted at 08.06.10 06:34:00 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
  • If we wanted someone with eloquent speech and a well rounded public persona we might be better off with a politician, but the poli-tic will keep giving us millions excuses to why the Boks keep losing and how they will turn things around the next season……NO THANK YOU.

    I don’t care how much garbage PdV talks, we’ve white washed the kiwis last year, when last did that happen? He brought the pride back to the Boks, an attitude of ‘winning is everything’. He understands us fans expects them to be the best, probably because he is one of the biggest fans of the Boks himself.

    As long as we keep winning I couldn’t be bothered less with him (PdV) wearing his heart on his sleeves.

  • Comment 45, posted at 08.06.10 07:06:16 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserAssistant coach
  • @Megatron (Comment 33) : Exactly – How can PDV only NOW turn around and say FS was the best fullback in the world, when PDV almost never gave FS a full 80 minute run. Is that how you treat “the best in the world”…PDV is playing mind games that will likely turn around and bite him in the arse!.

    Percy, Bob Skinstad and Stefan terblanche all came back better players.

    Rickie Januarie continues to play below par, Potgiter even had to do his job for him on Saturday, but Mechanice gets picked no matter what.

    Refuse to get worked up about it anymore. The only thing that is keeping me sane is the thought that PDV can’t be coach forever.

  • Comment 46, posted at 08.06.10 08:27:30 by Just a Fan Reply

    Just a FanCurrie Cup player
  • @Big Fish (Comment 38) : Smit, Matfield, and Kirchner all played worse than the last time they pulled on the Bok jersey. The team that played on Saturday were only together for 5 days..I think the PDV assessment of the players was unfair.

  • Comment 47, posted at 08.06.10 08:32:04 by Just a Fan Reply

    Just a FanCurrie Cup player
  • @Megatron (Comment 44) : ok. but PdV was not really selecting him as 15 before 2009, when Jantjies was injurred. He was selecting him as 10 and 12. The fullback story came on when PdV had a choice between moving Steyn to 15 or putting a new cap like Kirchner (or old Terblanche) there for Lions.

    Re: Viljoen. I was not watching rugga back then but from what I hear read Viljoen was a rather “inventive” and experimental coach.

  • Comment 48, posted at 08.06.10 08:55:20 by rekinek Reply
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