robdylan

This whole sordid affair stinks to high heaven


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Cheetahs, Lions, Original Content, Sharks on 4 Nov 2010 at 10:39
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New developments, allegations and rumours continue to fly in thick and fast regarding the aptly named “Lionel Mapoe Saga”. If I were Rudi Straeuli, I’d be secretly ruing the day this particular pile of poo landed on my doorstep…

Just to recap, here’s the story the way I have it. Mapoe and his agent, Jan-Harm van Wyk, approach the Sharks towards the end of the Super 14. Mapoe has been sitting on the sidelines after injuring himself early on in the tournament and was reported to be bitterly unhappy about the fact that the Cheetahs were paying him a pittance of a salary – rumoured to be anywhere between R2 000 and R20 000 a month, depending on who you believe. Mapoe believed that the Cheetahs were unfairly holding him to a junior contract that he had been coerced into signing without any proper guidance – his illiterate father being the only other person present during the negotiations. Further allegations of favouritism and unfair labour practices have also been mentioned, with the Cheetahs paying other players of similar pedigree to Mapoe vastly increased sums of money.

Why Straeuli didn’t simply tell them to sod off is anybody’s guess. Fact is, despite all of Mapoe and van Wyk’s protestations to the contrary, the player did, in fact, have a binding contract with the Cheetahs at the time he picked up and moved to Durban. “Legal and binding”, in this case, are unfortunately not the same thing as “just and fair” and while any right-thinking individual could only be appalled at the shocking manner in which the Cheetahs treat the players they claim to love, they, unlike the Lions, do actually seem capable of drawing up a binding contract. Taking the pair at face value, though and (I believe) genuinely accepting that there was no valid contract in place, the Sharks agreed a very generous deal with Mapoe, gave him a place to stay, started paying a salary, paid all the medical costs related to his rehabilitation and began to integrate him into the squad.

The inevitable legal battle ensued and when Mapoe, not once, but twice, point blank refused to return to Bloemfontein following court rulings in the Cheetahs’ favour, the Sharks continued to provide support – most tellingly in the form of covering the frankly staggering legal fees that were beginning to mount. The one common factor throughout the sordid affair, though, was Cheetahs president Harold Verster’s intransigence in the face of all rational argument. Anybody with half a brain will tell you that it is simply impossible to hold on to a player who will defy an order of the court rather than return to train with your team. For all their other rumoured sins, the Sharks have never held a player to a contract against his will, because they know that such a dynamic is utter poison to a team environment. Given that Mapoe was earning R200 000 a year at the absolute most, the Sharks’ offer a transfer fee in the region of 3.5 times that (we’re told) should have seemed like manna from above to Verster. After all, his own structures and business practices had created the situation in which he now found himself – that of having a player who felt so exploited and undervalued that he would simply walk out and refuse to return. Surely in this situation it’s better to cut your losses and move on. Getting some money out of the bargain is an added bonus.

Not our Harold, though. True to form, he began throwing his weight around, making frankly ridiculous demands for transfer fees that were close to an order of magnitude greater than what he himself was prepared to pay the player. This in itself was perplexing, though – because on the one hand he steadfastly refused to enter into any process of negotiation, insisting that Mapoe was a “son” of the union and that they could never let him leave, while at the same time speculating in the media about what sort of transfer fee he would consider acceptable.

Needless to say, the matter ended in a complete impasse, with the Sharks posed to go to court again for the player on 12 November to try and overturn the earlier ruling that the player must return to Bloemfontein. The news broke this week, however, that Mapoe and his agent had suddenly done a complete about-face and cut a deal with the Lions that would see him immediately released from his Cheetahs contract to take up employment with the Johannesburg franchise. The more details that emerge, the more one can only shake one’s head in shame for the way Harold Verster does business; no longer is Mapoe an “indispensable player and son” of the Free State. It seem all that Harold wanted was “to bring closure” to the matter, which he could have done 6 months ago if he’d just been prepared to negotiate a reasonable transfer with the Sharks. Even more baffling is talk from the Lions camp that they paid no exorbitant transfer fee for Mapoe, but simply offered to settle his contract. That would mean that they picked him up for less than R500 000, when the Sharks had already offered R700 000.

One of two things happened here. Either Harold has no grasp of basic accounting (possible – nay probable), but what I feel is more likely is that we are seeing yet another common media tactic from our friends the Lions. It’s what we, in the trade, call a “bare-faced lie”. Shady forces are at work here and as Dan Retief points out, the fact that the Lions’ new backers, Robert Gumede and Ivor Ichiowitz were the ones going in to do the negotiating, rather than the CEO and Union President, raises some key questions about exactly what sort of business practices we can expect from the cash-flush union from Gauteng.

Craig Lewis of the Daily News caught up with Sharks CEO Brian van Zyl earlier this week to fill in the blanks and figure out what the Sharks will do next. “He’s left here and his integrity and credibility is in question, while he has also jeopardised the respect he had from us. We re-habilitated him from injury and incurred significant costs while he was here, and so we will need to take legal advice and will consider taking action against him,” van Zyl told Lewis.

“One thing you can say is that we don’t want him back here now,” Van Zyl said. “He’s 22-years-old and he came down this road quite a long way. So to now suddenly have a change of heart and sneak out in the middle of the night certainly puts his morals, integrity and credibility in question.”

One thing that does, of course, throw a potential spanner into the works for the happy back-stabbers is that, in his darkest hour, Mapoe was only two happy to put his paw-prints all over a 2.5 year contract with the Sharks. That, together with the fact that Mapoe and van Wyk clearly deceived the Sharks and led to the union incurring significant costs, whether medical, legal or salary-related, raises the possibility of further legal action being taken by the Durban union. “The Lions have clearly been very opportunistic and although they may have received a clearance certificate from the Cheetahs, we still have a contract with Lionel. So this whole thing can get quite messy. Their role in this is also questionable.”

An interview with Mapoe’s former counsel, Frikkie Erasmus, also hinted at a strong possibility that the Sharks will seek reparations from Mapoe and will possibly also launch an action against the Lions.



116 Comments

  • What a load of crap..

    And now I see the Lions are palming him off to play for the Sevens..

    He must have the worst agent in the country!

  • Comment 1, posted at 04.11.10 10:45:05 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Regulate agents and player transfers FFS!

    What can be more easy?

  • Comment 2, posted at 04.11.10 10:51:39 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 2) :

    Im with you on that!!

  • Comment 3, posted at 04.11.10 10:52:44 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 1) : after I swallowed the sob-story that van Wyk fed me, hook line and f*cking sinker, he doesn’t even have the decency to take my calls now.

    Keep burning those bridges, son… you’re untouchable when you don’t need any favours.

  • Comment 4, posted at 04.11.10 10:53:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) :

    What a f*cknut.. He doesn’t realise it yet, but this player will always be known for his off field antics, rather than his on field talents..

  • Comment 5, posted at 04.11.10 10:56:40 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • I actually feel we are waisting way too much time on this…

  • Comment 6, posted at 04.11.10 10:57:34 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 6) : He’s getting more ‘airtime’ than SBW. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 7, posted at 04.11.10 10:59:14 by McLovin Reply

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  • Still blah blah blah blah blah….i don’t give a sh!t about how this story unfolds

  • Comment 8, posted at 04.11.10 11:01:04 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Cut our losses and lets not do a “Harold Verster” by taking it any further

  • Comment 9, posted at 04.11.10 11:20:06 by dawj Reply

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  • @dawj (Comment 9) :

    I dont agree with you 100%. I would like this drama to end, yes, but we have to somehow get some of the money we spent on his rehab back..

  • Comment 10, posted at 04.11.10 11:22:01 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Send mapoe to the kings, forget about it, move on.

  • Comment 11, posted at 04.11.10 11:23:40 by PTAShark Reply

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  • time to remove more free state shields from that trophy we just won :)

  • Comment 12, posted at 04.11.10 11:30:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • If Mapoe knows whats going on and he is fine with it,the Sharks should f them up!

  • Comment 13, posted at 04.11.10 11:34:15 by Honey Badger Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 10) :

    Agree, there has to be a consequence for our actions, and Mapoe and his agent are not excluded from this

  • Comment 14, posted at 04.11.10 11:34:30 by Bump Reply

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  • Morne is quite right the only way to nip this in the bud, is to regulate and the sooner the better. I know this is a shark site and therefore you are all taking umbrage to this, however the Sharks have not been above board in all their dealings and therefore I do not spill too many tears for you over this one, and to be honest the sharks may have a contract with Mapoe, but it is not binding until the Cheetahs release him, they did not. So not sure you have a leg to stand on!! You will definitely have recourse against him over costs incurred as he had no right to accept that without a legally binding contract. At the end of the day a hell of a lot of money is being wasted and all that is being achieved is the Lawyers are getting rich!! What a waste of talent, because there is no doubt he is talented.

  • Comment 15, posted at 04.11.10 11:36:43 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 10) : @robdylan (Comment 12) : Maybe the Sharks should just move on….it might be an expensive lesson but a good lesson. The Sharks weren’t totally innocent in this whole thing

  • Comment 16, posted at 04.11.10 11:38:41 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I think the Cheetahs and Lions were planning this thing for a couple of months now, not only two weeks like it is suggested. These f@ckers wanted the Sharks to get Lionel rehabilitated, stronger, faster, etc etc. Just so that they do not have to spend the R100 000′s of thousands to fix him up.
    @Whindy (Comment 15) : Yes, the Sharks may have not worked accordingly as well. But the player was injured, and therefore did not contribute to the team in any way.
    I still think Lionel want to get back on the pitch asap, but definately am starting to think alternative motives might have contributed.

    I do not wish this on to any player.. But Lionel, if what Brian van Zyl is saying is indeed true….. May that injury of yours return 10 times worse boy!!!!

  • Comment 17, posted at 04.11.10 11:53:34 by SharksRTB Reply

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  • @SharksRTB (Comment 17) :

    Read much David Icke ? ;-)

  • Comment 18, posted at 04.11.10 11:56:00 by CoffeeShopBok;-) Reply

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  • Bah Humbug
    - Cheetahs got destroyed by Province in the semi (which the Sharks help keep away from being played in Bloem)
    - Lions didn’t make the semis and ended their season with a home defeat against the Pumas.
    Mapoe never got to wear a real Sharks jersey
    The Sharks won the Currie Cup convincingly.
    I’m Happy.

  • Comment 19, posted at 04.11.10 12:08:05 by Salmonoid Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 19) : amen… let’s shout it from the rooftops.

    Keep your dodgy crap, Lions and Cheetahs. We’ve got the real deal in Mvovo anyway

  • Comment 20, posted at 04.11.10 12:10:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • It’s our own fault for going about it in the way that we did from the get-go. Somethimes this kind of thing comes back to bite you – and now it has.

    The NRU should simply cut their losses and hopefully learn from all this so we have money left in the kitty after our usual shopping spree to keep guys like Strauss in a black and white jersey.

  • Comment 21, posted at 04.11.10 12:15:16 by rhineshark Reply

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  • Tie the dog loose, I say.

  • Comment 22, posted at 04.11.10 12:18:31 by Sportbilly Reply

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  • maybe as Sharks fans we could show a little more loyalty to the union that just gave us the Currie Cup? There is right and wrong on all sides here, but we need to be clear about whose corner we’re in.

  • Comment 23, posted at 04.11.10 12:23:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 23) : I’m not convinced…the longer this drags on the worse we will look. Just let it go.

  • Comment 24, posted at 04.11.10 12:27:24 by Pokkel Reply
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  • lol you were happy to get ludik en co … whats the diffrence now :twisted:

  • Comment 25, posted at 04.11.10 12:33:19 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 23) : Wow Rob, even if they were wrong, loyalty is one thing, but calling for blind loyalty is another. I support the Lions through thick and mostly thin, but I do not neccesarily support an idiot like Reyneke just because he is a Lions employee or Manager??

  • Comment 26, posted at 04.11.10 12:39:40 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 26) : I didn’t say blind loyalty, but there is enough doubt here that I wish the so-called Sharks fans blindly slating the union would show a little bit more backbone.

  • Comment 27, posted at 04.11.10 12:46:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • I personally say good riddance! I dont mind players leaving to further their careers but dont beg for help and then kick the very people who have stood by you in the teeth! However, if there’s large sums of money involved and legally we have grounds, nail him for all that he has cost us…simple. Gumede and Ichikowitz are both a bit shady and Ichikowitz is not the nicest, most humble person you would ever meet with dodgy political connections nogal, so let them pay on his behalf!
    On that note and without trying to hijack this thread have we got any billionaire’s in Natal that could play benefactor/owner? We have always been leaders in the professional era and this is how football has gone and province have Johann Rupert and the Lions have now got shady and fat shady so methinks Mr Straueli has missed something! Jonathan Beare…you listening?

  • Comment 28, posted at 04.11.10 12:48:24 by Vince Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 27) : Agreed, but your talent scout Mr Streuli is definitely not the most above board character in the rugby world!!

  • Comment 29, posted at 04.11.10 12:48:59 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Vince (Comment 28) : get onto the grapevine… we need a sugardaddy, but bad!

  • Comment 30, posted at 04.11.10 12:57:18 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Vince (Comment 28) : Vince you are so right, I reckon those two characters promised him the world, I just feel so sorry for him because in his ignorance, he will never be touched by anybody else, with actions like that, and if he does not perform, they will drop him like a hot cake, the joys of bringing in unscrupulous characters like them into the game, all because of money!! I can assure you I do not draw confidence from having them on board!!

  • Comment 31, posted at 04.11.10 12:59:43 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 29) : find the SA Rugby administrator who is and I will kiss you on any cheek you care to present :)

  • Comment 32, posted at 04.11.10 13:01:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • ‘I do not wish this on to any player.. But Lionel, if what Brian van Zyl is saying is indeed true….. May that injury of yours return 10 times worse boy!!!!’

    Sharks sure as hell have some real decent supporters hey!! :shock: :roll:

  • Comment 33, posted at 04.11.10 13:06:02 by wpw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 32)too true!! I often wonder what a powerhouse we(Boks) could be without all the bullshit and politics. Pipe dream

  • Comment 34, posted at 04.11.10 13:06:31 by Whindy Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 32) : I know a couple of Sheiks that may be interested!! :smile:

  • Comment 35, posted at 04.11.10 13:08:39 by Whindy Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 33) : I am on the warpath today, wes… I would rethink that strategy if I were you… :roll:

  • Comment 36, posted at 04.11.10 13:10:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 35) : Sheik Sharks? :)

  • Comment 37, posted at 04.11.10 13:11:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 31) : Agreed, maybe he’s got the same agent as the Rose brothers…on a road to nowhere if he’s not careful!That Ichyarse character is the most arrogant little *%@$*! you’ve ever met!b Would sell his mom for a profit so if I were a Lion player or supporter I’d be careful…what goes around…..!( And that’s not jealousy…for the sake of SA rugby we need the Lions to be strong)

  • Comment 38, posted at 04.11.10 13:11:56 by Vince Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 36) :

    I’m not stirring Rob.

    I just think its not cool wishing injury or illness upon any person/player!!

  • Comment 39, posted at 04.11.10 13:12:25 by wpw Reply
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  • @Vince (Comment 38) : Mapoe’s agent is Jan-Harm van Wyk, the former Cheetahs wing. He also represents Piet Lindeque…

  • Comment 40, posted at 04.11.10 13:19:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • Why Straeuli didn’t simply tell them to sod off is anybody’s guess.

    propbly becaus he thought .. hmmmmm free player .. like ludic .. like alberts . like Mosterd ….

  • Comment 41, posted at 04.11.10 13:19:27 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 36) : Rob, there is no place for that, whether you’re on the “warpath” or not. If you support that opinion and accept it on your site as “banter” then I would lose a lot of respect for this place.

  • Comment 42, posted at 04.11.10 13:20:40 by molly Reply
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  • Some food for thought…maybe we should get the supporters to club together and fund buying Brussouw a contract! Would pay good money to see the sh.tfit Verster has then because I hear Broussouw only renewed till the end of the world cup. Get Bissie and Jannie to chat to him on our behalf! :twisted:

  • Comment 43, posted at 04.11.10 13:21:29 by Vince Reply

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  • And further to Morne’s comment right at the beginning, they should regulate contracts and pay as well.
    That way there will be no finding loop holes or trying to break contracts, cause if you break one of another unions, they can just as easily break yours. Would cut that rubbish out asap.

  • Comment 44, posted at 04.11.10 13:22:37 by molly Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 41) : Mostert was out of contract and a free agent when he signed with the Sharks. And then according to the courts of SA so were Alberts and Ludick, therefore nothing like the Mapooh (spelling intentional) case.

  • Comment 45, posted at 04.11.10 13:24:01 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 40) : Ja I know his agent is Van Wyk I was actually being facetious…the Rose brother’s Dad was their agent and look what moving to the Lions has done for them!
    As far as Lindeque goes, we just have to keep him happy and well paid….where’s that Sheik that Windy was bragging about….

  • Comment 46, posted at 04.11.10 13:26:08 by Vince Reply

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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 45) :

    thus proving my point that he thought it was the same .. he thought ah we can get him out of his contract as well .. if according to the courst of south africa Mapoe did not have a valid contract with the FS the sharks would have been smiling and nobody would have moaned …

  • Comment 47, posted at 04.11.10 13:27:22 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 42) : Molly I really do not think that ? meant it to be a real injury I think he was just letting some steam off! No one whants a player injured. Although I cannot wait for the first time Mr. Mapoe meets,our loving Mr. Alberts on the green grass of Kings park :mrgreen:

  • Comment 48, posted at 04.11.10 13:28:01 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 47) : Zibbie the point about Ludick and Alberts was tongue in cheek, but was just pointing out that Mostert was not part of that saga, his contract did not go to court.

  • Comment 49, posted at 04.11.10 13:29:19 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I started on 3 stars and have just earned my 4th I am so proud!!!!! :razz:

  • Comment 50, posted at 04.11.10 13:31:09 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 49) :

    guilty on 2/3 charges … not bad ;) :twisted:

  • Comment 51, posted at 04.11.10 13:31:46 by Zibbie Reply
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  • And if I continue to talk to myself I may very well earn my fith by the end of today :shock:

  • Comment 52, posted at 04.11.10 13:32:01 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 51) : :lol:

  • Comment 53, posted at 04.11.10 13:32:45 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 48) : I’m sure not everyone supports that opinion, but no one called SharksRTB out except wpw, the silence speaks volumes.
    I get the anger, but it needs to be directed a little better than that.

  • Comment 54, posted at 04.11.10 13:33:40 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 42) : I didn’t say I support it, Molly, but wes has an annoying habit of finding the rawest wounds he can and rubbing salt into them.

  • Comment 55, posted at 04.11.10 13:33:59 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 51) : But again I cannot be unhappy about Alberts, would have done worse to get him :oops: what a success he has been at the Sharks!

  • Comment 56, posted at 04.11.10 13:34:30 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 54) : Yeah you are probably right, except that I really did not take it seriously, ’cause its not something I wish on anyone and don’t believe that anyone would either! but yeah there are better ways of venting anger.

  • Comment 57, posted at 04.11.10 13:36:34 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 44) : you guys misunderstand me quite fundamentally.

    Of course the answer is a properly-regulated system, but you need to get your heads out of the clouds and look at what’s in front of us. this is RUGBY in SOUTH AFRICA. I challenge you to find any sports code anywhere that is less professional, more shambolic or worse run. We can beat our fists against our chests for as long as we like, but as long as we continue to have the Versters of the world involved, nothing is ever going to change.

    It is what it is… it is imperfect, it is broken, but we need do the best we can despite that.

    I stick by my standpoint that the Sharks were trying to make things better for Mapoe when he kicked them in the face. Nothing else that Straeuli or van Zyl have done (or are rumoured to have done) is of any relevance.

  • Comment 58, posted at 04.11.10 13:38:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 56) :

    true ! he is turning out to be an awesome player ;)

    i would just like to add that im not happy with the lions signing Mapoe .. ( he doesnt seem to have a loyal bone in his body)

    the other young players the lions signed so far . Maku , Rhoads , jacobie , Cilliers . at the sharks and bulls they would have been behind the likes of the beast and and alberts dysel ect ( who are decent players )

    they are young we can develop them . maybe one they hey will also be great . im glad we are not signing old farts ….

  • Comment 59, posted at 04.11.10 13:39:06 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 54) : i don’t think anybody took SharksRTB seriously on this one but I take your point.

    @SharksRTB (Comment 17) : come back here and say you were joking.

  • Comment 60, posted at 04.11.10 13:43:14 by rekinek Reply
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  • @SharksRTB (Comment 17) : ja – actually have to say, that last remark was off-colour and of course we should never wish ill on anyone.

    The guys I’ve spoken to seem to think that Lionel is actually a hell of a nice guy, so maybe he is really just an innocent victim in all of this? Hard to believe…

  • Comment 61, posted at 04.11.10 13:45:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 57) & @rekinek (Comment 60) : I get it, but there have been quite a few comments like that floating around here of late, its really in poor taste, whether its a joke or not.

  • Comment 62, posted at 04.11.10 13:47:07 by molly Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 59) : Yes you are right, frankly I wouldn’t whant Mapoe now either his loyalties are really suspect! Very sad about losing Cilliers and Rhodes, but can well understand the reasons he left and I wish him well, you have a really good players there its also nice to see Waylon looking good again instead of seeing him crabbing accross the field :sad: like he was doing at the end of his carreer with the Sharks. It will be nice if SA Could have three teams on top of the log of course with the Sharks being at the top, Cheetahs claiming their 10th wooden spoon wouldn’t upset me too much! :twisted: ;-)

  • Comment 63, posted at 04.11.10 13:51:28 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : How can he be innocent if he puts pen to paper then he must have been complicit, or was his signature forged? You cannot claim ignorance three times over, surely, he may have signed without knowing what he was doing with the Cheetahs, but surely any reasonable person would then have learnt from that?! Surely?

  • Comment 64, posted at 04.11.10 13:54:58 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 63) : the lions and cheetahs sharing the wooden spoon will now just do nicely for me :x

  • Comment 65, posted at 04.11.10 13:59:43 by bergshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : Ja, the lack of communication doesn’t help his case. Reckon he was just desperate to play and took the easiest option that offered the least resistance. Think the Cheetah’s would’ve dragged it out as long as possible. Wouldn’t be surprised if PdV/Dick told him to, so that they can justify picking him… soon.

  • Comment 66, posted at 04.11.10 14:00:18 by molly Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 65) : was being diplomatic :) and then I do like Plummy’s friend :oops:

  • Comment 67, posted at 04.11.10 14:01:10 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 62) : molly, I’ve maybe seen 1 previous comment like that and the poster who made was ripped to shreds – had hits coming at him from all sides.

    I would never claim to be above criticism, but let’s at least keep it factual?

  • Comment 68, posted at 04.11.10 14:02:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 25) : :?: :?: :?:

  • Comment 69, posted at 04.11.10 14:03:01 by bergshark Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 66) : interesting… because bergshark (I think) suggested yesterday that Muir might have had a hand in this and was widely dismissed as a crazy conspiracy theorist…

    dodgy business practices are RIFE in this sport of ours. I take serious umbrage at anyone pointing fingers at the Sharks when the teams they support are no less guilty.

  • Comment 70, posted at 04.11.10 14:04:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 65) :

    the lions seems to be going somewhere .. the cheetahs on the other hand

  • Comment 71, posted at 04.11.10 14:06:05 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 58) : No one is innocent Rob. Streuli, Wagner/Rassie, Verster – they’ve all done dodgy dealings and they’ve all been found out for it.

    I’m glad you have such high thoughts for the Sharks and them wanting the best for Mapoe, but there is no denying that the best for Mapoe would have helped the Sharks out quite a bit (if he’d been able to move to them). Mapoe wins, Sharks win.

  • Comment 72, posted at 04.11.10 14:07:52 by molly Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 70) : agreed WP had Fourie, and Mujati, they even played him without a clearance certificate, that is just to mention two cases that I remember ’cause they are recent

  • Comment 73, posted at 04.11.10 14:09:04 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • funny how the more reputable publications seem to be seeing this one my way:

    http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=125851

  • Comment 74, posted at 04.11.10 14:17:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 72) : and yet somehow, whenever it’s the Sharks, the amount of vitriol poured out on them defies belief. There’s nothing quite like a bit of petty Sharks-bashing for uniting the fans of all other provinces in the country.

  • Comment 75, posted at 04.11.10 14:20:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 75) :

    “From the Lions’ perspective though, it will be in the union’s best interests to ensure that Mapoe’s new contract is water- tight and that there are no escape clauses, given his track record with contracts.”

    Thats no effing lie!!

  • Comment 76, posted at 04.11.10 14:24:54 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • Under an orderly and well regulated system the Sharks would have faced a very stiff fine for contracting a player whilst knowing he was under contract elsewhere.

    Under and orderly and well regulated system the Sharks would not currently have Willem Alberts and Louis Ludik in their team.

    Under an orderly and well regulated system the Sharks would have been kicked out of rugby in the early 90s for brazenly flouting the amateur rules of the time.

  • Comment 77, posted at 04.11.10 14:25:06 by fyndraai Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 77) : oh cry me a frikking river, fyndraai. How far back do you want to take this?

  • Comment 78, posted at 04.11.10 14:28:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • enough of winny mapoe… please… can someone do a profile on the junior wingers?

  • Comment 79, posted at 04.11.10 14:29:06 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 77) : Having spoken to both Alberts and Ludick in a system you seem to quote, the Sharks may not have had them but an english/french club would have, they were that wanting to leave :x

  • Comment 80, posted at 04.11.10 14:31:51 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 74) : You mean the same reputable newspaper that values the opinion of one Mark Keohane? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 81, posted at 04.11.10 14:32:05 by rhineshark Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 77) : All the Sharks did was create a world-class brand and pay players cash when the other unions were still paying their players in after-match beer.

  • Comment 82, posted at 04.11.10 14:34:02 by rhineshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 78) : Cut them some slack Rob, it was so much easier to compete with the banana boys when they could be called up to the North under the banner of the Defence force! They just needed to turn up no need for actually playing any rugby, the 90s turned all that around! and in 94 when conscription ended their woes multiplied :twisted:

  • Comment 83, posted at 04.11.10 14:34:55 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 83) : What terrible english :oops: What I meant was It was easier to play the Banana boys when their best players were called up North in the guise of the Defence force!

  • Comment 84, posted at 04.11.10 14:37:06 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

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  • @VanWilder (Comment 79) : I’m busy collecting the info I need

  • Comment 85, posted at 04.11.10 14:38:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 82) : actually not true… the envelope system was widely used by ALL unions at that stage. fyndraai is just choosing to propagate a myth from a time that he actually has no real knowledge of.

  • Comment 86, posted at 04.11.10 14:39:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 72) : Which comes back to the very 1st post and until we do that all the underhand dealings will carry on at the expence of a player like Mapoe, who is an exceptional talent, being promised the world by everybody including the sharks, and I reckon the swing vote was our newest benefactor at the Lions Mr Gumede, who could speak the same language as Mapoe and convinced him that the Lions was the best deal for him!! Not Sure if he was best served but you can be sure that his agent is collecting a good agents fee!!

  • Comment 87, posted at 04.11.10 14:41:04 by Whindy Reply
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  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 83) : no politics dear :roll:

    I see even Rob is steaming here ;-) :lol:

  • Comment 88, posted at 04.11.10 14:43:26 by rekinek Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 68) : ja, I remember that, but I didn’t say he/she wasn’t ripped, I said there’ve been more comments like that, from none to 2… is an increase. fact.

  • Comment 89, posted at 04.11.10 14:45:49 by molly Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 85) : just drop me a mail, i will help where i can :grin:

  • Comment 90, posted at 04.11.10 14:47:33 by VanWilder Reply

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  • I would be interested to know who else Jan-Harm van Wyk represents…
    Anybody got any ideas where I could fin this info?

  • Comment 91, posted at 04.11.10 14:48:28 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 70) : probably is, but we know Div wants him… and there’s an insider in Dick.
    Also, Sharks are the most recent dodgy dealers, of course people will have a go, as long as its not their team at this time.
    Think only the Bulls keep their dealings above board, or keep very quiet about it.

  • Comment 92, posted at 04.11.10 14:51:23 by molly Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 87) : Probably a few fees, one from the cheetahs, another from the sharks and another from the Lions. He’s done quite well with this player.

  • Comment 93, posted at 04.11.10 14:55:53 by molly Reply
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  • Molly,it would be nice if wpw could just as harshly condemn schalk the next time he is caught on tv with his fingers/hands/knuckles in a player’s face!! Now isnt that intent to cause serious harm to a player!!have a look at the penalty for high tackle on lambie-not ten seconds after that,he can be clearly seen attacking the face/eye area of alberts!!but wpw prefers to turn a ‘blind eye’to the actions of a wp ‘hero’ ..just like pdivvy would rather defend ‘the eye gouge’2nd test vs british lions! !

  • Comment 94, posted at 04.11.10 15:00:21 by bergshark Reply

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  • Ok… I have allowed myself to get carried away here. Apologies to everyone I may have offended. I’m going to (dis)gracefully bow out of this one now.

  • Comment 95, posted at 04.11.10 15:00:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 95) :

    :shock:

  • Comment 96, posted at 04.11.10 15:05:32 by wpw Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 94) : look, I’m going to ignore that, cause I know your bias against Schalk, I’d love to see some evidence, where is the citing from that game then? If it was “clearly seen”.

  • Comment 97, posted at 04.11.10 15:06:01 by molly Reply
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  • 1987 fyndraai.. Tvl somehow lure carel and michael dup from wp..one season only..forget where they were ‘employed’during that year in joburg..

  • Comment 98, posted at 04.11.10 15:07:00 by bergshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 95) : Which is kinda why I have not involved myself in this one all day. I have been fairly vocal regarding this issue in general, and have even on a couple of occasions quoted from the SARU document pertaining to player movement. Why does this document even exist, because nobody sticks to it 100%, and there is no consequenc3e to provinces that ignore it.

  • Comment 99, posted at 04.11.10 15:07:17 by Greg Reply

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  • ??? Molly??? You for real??? Ive watched the game 5 times,and i picked it up the first time.. You didnt see it? You sure you never played rugby against schalk ? Hehehehe

  • Comment 100, posted at 04.11.10 15:12:37 by bergshark Reply

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  • Was some comments deleted?

    Pity. The debate would have been interesting for a change.

    But this one is about ethics. Perfectly allowed, for now.

    Most here are finally in agreement that Mapoe’s ethics in this manner were poor.
    Why so, only after he double-crossed the Sharks?
    People have a hard time telling right from wrong when the they think there interests are being served.

    The Sharks also acted poorly. Hard to accept on http://www.sharksworld.co.za but true none the less.

  • Comment 101, posted at 04.11.10 15:19:57 by fyndraai Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 100) : @molly (Comment 97) :

    I’m going to respectively request that the two of you agree to disagree on this one and rather move on.

  • Comment 102, posted at 04.11.10 15:22:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 101) : I haven’t deleted any comments on this thread, because none have warranted deletion. Quite unlike other sites, I don’t delete comments that I disagree with, much though I may want to :mrgreen:

  • Comment 103, posted at 04.11.10 15:24:18 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Whindy (Comment 87) :

    I think calling him an exceptional talent is a bridge to far, at this point in his career. That he is talented is without doubt, how talented is still to be established imho.

  • Comment 104, posted at 04.11.10 15:43:39 by Bump Reply

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  • @wpw (Comment 39) : And you wp supporters take every thing literally?
    I was arugby player myself, my playing got cut short because of a back injury. SO I DO NOT WISH ANY INJURY ONTO ANY PLAYER OF ANY UNION. I was simply talking(typing) before thinking…..

    Let me rephrase: Lionel, I hope the 7 sorts of shit gets tackled out of you when you get back on the pitch……. You are not bigger than the game boy!!!! Stop acting like it.

    (WPW, MOLLY again, i mean 7 sorts of shit figuratively speaking, ok :roll: ;-) )

  • Comment 105, posted at 04.11.10 15:49:56 by SharksRTB Reply

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  • @SharksRTB (Comment 105) : thank you!

  • Comment 106, posted at 04.11.10 15:57:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @SharksRTB (Comment 105) : haha, thanks!

  • Comment 107, posted at 04.11.10 16:05:01 by molly Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 77) :

    Fyndraai that comment about the sharks flouting amateur rules in the early 90′s is absolutely laughable.

    One of the Natal players who played in the final in 1990 when we beat Northern Transvaal showed me a cheque signed by louis Luyt that he was sent together with an offer to come and play for Transvaal.

    Needless to say he never cashed it.

  • Comment 108, posted at 04.11.10 16:41:10 by jonnow Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 100) : Also saw that..

  • Comment 109, posted at 04.11.10 16:50:43 by Honey Badger Reply

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  • @jonnow (Comment 108)

    “Needless to say he never cashed it.”

    Why not? Perhaps because the Sharks check he did not show you was bigger?

    You guys should stop being so sensitive.

    WP and NTvl used the military, the police and the state funded universities to employ players.
    Natal pioneered under the table contracts. Transvaal copied them and the amateur system collapsed.

    The Sharks was the team of the 90s because they turned pro before anybody else. Good for them, but it was against the rules at the time. I did not say they were the only rule breakers. Just the most brazen. Likewise for the current messy contract system. The Sharks are the most brazen.

  • Comment 110, posted at 04.11.10 17:23:21 by fyndraai Reply

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  • 109 comments on this issue. I don’t give a rat’s. cat’s, dog’s ass to where and how he will play his rugby. All the best of luck to Lionel. I am an ardent advocate of local talent. And if i get this English idiom correct ” necesity leads to inovation”. Which means, that WE WILL inovate a local outside centre, u/19 or u/21. And for F$%^& sake, dont say that Piet or Jerome or Arno or who ever needs 2 year’s time to develop. If you are friggin good enough, you are old enough. Give the local guys the OPPORTUNITY and we will be more than happy. Dont let us lose another Pat Cilliers or Mike Rhodes. I have not read all the comments above so if i’m repeating something, i do apologise. Lets look ahead to the S15 and cut our losses. Let Lionel go. My 2 zim bob.

  • Comment 111, posted at 04.11.10 17:25:54 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 110) : pioneers sounds better ;-)

  • Comment 112, posted at 04.11.10 17:28:41 by rekinek Reply
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  • Rob, the bok 22 is on the official website

  • Comment 113, posted at 04.11.10 17:29:59 by rekinek Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 113) : and now on this one too :)

  • Comment 114, posted at 04.11.10 17:50:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 114) : if I see sth first can I post it ? when I log in there is sth that looks like a place to post posts.

    hmmm that reads really blonde :mrgreen:

  • Comment 115, posted at 04.11.10 17:57:03 by rekinek Reply
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  • Does anyone know whether Morgan Newman has signed with the Cheetahs?? Last time I heard he was in Bloem checking it out. He’s a very talented individual. Would love to snatch him under Verster’s nose (he deserves it). I’m not sure what’s happening with Adi, he’s even behind Zane in the pecking order, is his match fitness that bad?

  • Comment 116, posted at 04.11.10 20:12:02 by GreatSharksays Reply

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