robdylan

Building the new Deysel


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby, Vodacom Cup on 11 Nov 2010 at 10:52
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While the Sharks should feel that they will go into next year’s inaugural Super 15 with one of the strongest sets of loose forwards in the competition, a clear-out of surplus players during the last year, coupled with a worrying tendency for the main ball-carriers to get injured, does raise a potential depth question mark. It is imperative that the Sharks use the Vodacom Cup to once again ensure that adequate reserve options are available should the injury curse strike.

The list of back-row players to have left the Sharks in recent times is staggeringly long. Jacques Potgieter (EP), Warren Whiteley (Lions), Renaldo Bothma (Lions) and Thabo Mamojele (Leopards) have all gone on to establish themselves at other unions. Mike Rhodes (Lions) and Skholiwe Ndlovu (retired) will also not play for the Sharks in 2011, while Justin Downey and Luvo Lusaseni are both still weighing up their future options, having been released on loan to Griquas earlier this year. With at least two of the regular starters for the Sharks under 21 side this year (Meyer Swanepoel and Jaco Otto) not given senior contracts, the back row cupboard is starting to look just a little bare – outside of the established stars, that is.

Don’t get me wrong – in Keegan Daniel, Jacques Botes, Willem Alberts, Jean Deysel and Ryan Kankowski, the Sharks have more than enough options to see off the challenges of all comers in the Super 15. The game that they play, though, is heavily reliant on a huge work-rate from the loose trio, though and with Deysel already sure to miss out on the opening period of the competition, there currently isn’t any loose forward depth at all in the squad. Mark my words – one or more of these player WILL break down during the course of the season and it is essential to ensure that there’s somebody there to step in. I have already made a very strong case for the Sharks to ensure they retain Downey’s services, as his ability to slot in anywhere in the back row makes him a vital asset.

Super Rugby squads have been enlarged to 40 players, it seems and in a group that size, I would expect at least 8 loose forwards. In addition to the five already mentioned, the Sharks have contracted Lambert Groenewald, Lubabalo Mtembu and Adriaan Theisinger (that we know of) as loose forward options and although each of those three is undoubtedly talented, it is unlikely that any is really ready to be thrust straight into Super Rugby at this stage. Mtembu is on duty with the Bok sevens team anyway, although his contract allows the Sharks to call him up for Super 15 duty if he is required.

It is crucial that the Sharks coaches agree on a common approach, training regimen and game plan with their Vodacom Cup counterparts, so that any players (particularly loose forwards) who are on standby for the Super 15 squad can stay match fit and sharp playing the same sort of game that will be required of them should they need to step up. While Theisinger is a pretty natural selection at 8 for the Sharks XV, it is Groenewald who offers somewhat of a conundrum. He is built to pretty much the same dimensions as Jean Deysel (1.89m and 110kg) making him a good candidate to play the wrecking ball role on the blind side. That said, though, there is no obvious candidate that I can see to play open side for the Vodacom Cup team and it may well be that Groenewald could provide the blueprint here for what the Sharks tried, with some success, of picking a big guy (Deysel) at 6 as well. That would free up the blind side slot for someone like Kene Okafor or Daniel Oijambo, both of whom are big ball carriers.



76 Comments

  • Why did Skholiwe Ndlovu retire Rob?

  • Comment 1, posted at 11.11.10 10:57:02 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • I thought Super rugby squads were 32 players, or does the 40 constitute the wider training squad?

  • Comment 2, posted at 11.11.10 10:57:20 by war1 Reply
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  • I look forward to seeing these guys play..

  • Comment 3, posted at 11.11.10 10:57:53 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 1) : Apparently he’s just had enough of rugby and wants to build a career doing something else.

  • Comment 4, posted at 11.11.10 10:58:24 by robdylan Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 2) :

    I saw the NZ teams were 32 players..

  • Comment 5, posted at 11.11.10 10:58:34 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 2) : the Kiwis have all picked 40-man squads… haven’t they?

  • Comment 6, posted at 11.11.10 10:58:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 5) : oh sorry – right… my bad.

    I misread an article on rugby365 which made me think there were 40 in each squad.

  • Comment 7, posted at 11.11.10 11:00:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 6) : no, 32-man squads with more players in the wider training group

  • Comment 8, posted at 11.11.10 11:00:08 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 9) : ok well anyway… 32 man squad still means 7 loose forwards, I reckon? Or at the very least 6…

  • Comment 9, posted at 11.11.10 11:00:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) :

    Thats a bit of a surprise.. He was a decent talent..

  • Comment 10, posted at 11.11.10 11:01:24 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 8) :

    The Bulls squad announced early last wek was 37 players.. And then 5 would be cut from there..

  • Comment 11, posted at 11.11.10 11:03:44 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 9) : if we have 6 looseforwards in our squad I would expect that Keegs, Big Vic, Kanko, Botes and Wolla are automatic choices which leaves one spot open which I believe will go to Mtembu unless he will be on sevens duty

  • Comment 12, posted at 11.11.10 11:04:07 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 12) :

    Does Bresler then filter in as a lock or as a loosie?

  • Comment 13, posted at 11.11.10 11:06:21 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 11) : I think that was the wider training squad.

  • Comment 14, posted at 11.11.10 11:06:28 by war1 Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 13) : I would say lock and I would think that when Skeato is fit it will be between Bresler and Mostert for that fourth locking spot.

  • Comment 15, posted at 11.11.10 11:09:25 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 15) :

    But then surely Bresler will be in the squad to cover both lock and flank?

    And why not have 5 locks? Or is that too many?

  • Comment 16, posted at 11.11.10 11:11:47 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 16) : In my mind a 32 man squad would consist of: 4 props, 3 hookers, 4 locks, 6 loosies, 3 scrummies, 2 flyhalves, 4 wings, 4 centres and 2 fullbacks. But that may just be an oversimplification and I guess it depends on the squad balance the coaches want.

  • Comment 17, posted at 11.11.10 11:14:54 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 17) :

    So where do you go?

    Props: Jannie, Beast, Herbst, van Staden
    Hookers: Bismarck, Smit, Burden
    Locks: Sykes, Hargreaves, Skeate, Mostert
    Loosies: Deysel, Kanko, Botes, Alberts, Keegan
    Scrummies: McLeod, Kockett, Hofmann
    Flyhalves: Lambie, Cronje, Potgieter
    Centres: Bosman, Terblanche, Adi, Swanepoel
    Wings: Mvovo, Pietersen, Ndungane, ???
    Fullbacks: Ludik, ???

  • Comment 18, posted at 11.11.10 11:19:58 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 18) : yes, with possibly Bresler in place of Mostert. I would add Mtembu as a loosie and Sbura Sithole as a wing although I see they are both with the sevens camp. Extra fullback would be Wynand Pienaar

  • Comment 19, posted at 11.11.10 11:23:26 by war1 Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 16) : jeez, with the way Mostert and Skeate break down, you want Bresler in there.

    What about Mostert as a blindside option?

  • Comment 20, posted at 11.11.10 11:24:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 20) :

    Rob, is Andre Pretorius hanging around for the Super 15?

    And do you know who we will be looking at for the other fulback position?

  • Comment 21, posted at 11.11.10 11:26:31 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 20) : I think Mostert is definitely an option at blindside.

  • Comment 22, posted at 11.11.10 11:26:41 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 19) : both are with Sevens team

  • Comment 23, posted at 11.11.10 11:32:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 18) :

    Sorry, I added an extra flyhalf in there, remove Cronje, and there are three spots available..

  • Comment 24, posted at 11.11.10 11:34:03 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Do we need another fullback in the squad?

    We have both Lambie and Stef that can cover there..

  • Comment 25, posted at 11.11.10 11:36:06 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 23) : Zuks Vulindlu in Sithole’s place and Downey in Mtembu’s place then?

  • Comment 26, posted at 11.11.10 11:36:34 by war1 Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 21) : Wynand Pienaar

  • Comment 27, posted at 11.11.10 11:40:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 26) : ah yes… Zuks

  • Comment 28, posted at 11.11.10 11:41:18 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 28) : remember burden can also do a good job in the loosies!

  • Comment 29, posted at 11.11.10 11:44:19 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 29) : trust me – if we now start trying to turn Craig into a makeshift loosie he’s going to have a MAJOR sense of humour failure :)

  • Comment 30, posted at 11.11.10 11:46:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 21) : I have no idea what’s up with Petoors…. my take is he didn’t do enough in the Currie Cup to warrant a playing berth in the Super 15.

  • Comment 31, posted at 11.11.10 11:47:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) : haha yes but only if we don’t have any other choice…

  • Comment 32, posted at 11.11.10 11:48:52 by Ben Reply
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  • I asked on another post and didnt get a response, but what about Steve Meyer too? I would have him in there somewhere if he is fit

  • Comment 33, posted at 11.11.10 12:13:04 by Pablo Dinero Reply

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  • @Pablo Dinero (Comment 33) : Steve’s knee is bad, boet. He needs to have another op in January. No Super 15 for him

  • Comment 34, posted at 11.11.10 12:37:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • I cannot believe Jaco Otto didnt get a contract for 2011.

    Started 10 Games
    Benched 2 Games
    Injured 1 Game

    He is a talent like we have not seen for sometime and will be lost to the Sharks if they dont look after him. Other unions will be only to glad to sign him and Im talking big Unions.

  • Comment 35, posted at 11.11.10 12:40:07 by Barrel Reply

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  • @robdylan: would’ve have loved to have seen richardt strauss join sharks.but read an arti that he might be up for irish colours if his current form continues and he has ‘done the time’ in ireland..will be sad loss..but having big bro at cheetahs might see rich head back to bloem..anyway,i love his style:all action-hustle and combative (even though only 1.74m he doesnt shirk away from the contact..puts his body on the line and his heart into game,total commitment)..wouldve signed him if i could..

  • Comment 36, posted at 11.11.10 12:52:10 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Barrel: i agree with you-otto (the talented one,rob ;-) ) is a must have..sad,sad,sad ..wanna know made the call to cut him ..

  • Comment 37, posted at 11.11.10 12:55:57 by bergshark Reply

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  • Would keep kyle cooper more than craig burden imho..kyle is an awesome talent!

  • Comment 38, posted at 11.11.10 12:58:01 by bergshark Reply

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  • Any news on jacques engelbrecht from the eagles?

  • Comment 39, posted at 11.11.10 12:59:23 by bergshark Reply

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  • Looks like the Sharks management have forgotten 2011 in around the corner…no stadium sponsor, players contracts not sorted out. And is Plum sticking around for 2011 Currie Cup too?

  • Comment 40, posted at 11.11.10 13:00:56 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 21) :
    @robdylan (Comment 31) :

    I am probably far off the mark on this one, but my understanding was Petoors is still under contract to western force for super rugby, and only came back to SA to get game time during the Currie Cup?

  • Comment 41, posted at 11.11.10 13:01:46 by Greg Reply

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  • @Greg:Heard the same thing from Letgo awhile back ,re: petoors

  • Comment 42, posted at 11.11.10 13:11:27 by bergshark Reply

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  • After Deysel and Alberts…i would definately say that Ojiambo would be my 3rd choice ball hugger/7. He has the aggression, strength and size to do the job, he will probably gain even more weight in the next few years and my guess is he will end up at around 112-116kg. With his pace behind that weight it will be difficult to stop the Big Kenyan…hopefully becomes South African within the next year or so. How long has he been in SA?

  • Comment 43, posted at 11.11.10 13:12:15 by JJR Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 22) : Agree, he has the size…would be same as playing danie rossouw at 7. Although Mostert could work on his skills in terms of offloading and running at the gap, etc.

  • Comment 44, posted at 11.11.10 13:16:03 by JJR Reply
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  • He is 110 kg already..what ’bout him going for 120kg (just have to see how an extra 10kg influences his speed and workrate.)

  • Comment 45, posted at 11.11.10 13:17:16 by bergshark Reply

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  • Perhaps we should think of ojiambo as a much bigger version of keegan daniel..

  • Comment 46, posted at 11.11.10 13:20:37 by bergshark Reply

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  • I reckon we should use Dan at wing or outside centre and rather look to turn Okafor into a blind side. He is 110kg (hoping to get up to 114) and does a respectable 5.2s 40m…

  • Comment 47, posted at 11.11.10 13:22:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • Kockott and swannie staying?

  • Comment 48, posted at 11.11.10 13:23:03 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 46) : kind of like two keegan daniels piled one on top of the other? :)

  • Comment 49, posted at 11.11.10 13:23:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 48) : we don’t know yet.

    Swannie has apparently not been offered a great contract.

  • Comment 50, posted at 11.11.10 13:24:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) :

    Carter?? :lol:

  • Comment 51, posted at 11.11.10 13:26:02 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • Are the coaches (seriously)considering ojiambo @centre/wing?

  • Comment 52, posted at 11.11.10 13:26:08 by bergshark Reply

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  • Cant believe true hasnt had a look at ojiambo ,re 7s team(he safrican yet?)

  • Comment 53, posted at 11.11.10 13:28:37 by bergshark Reply

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  • Treu:$

  • Comment 54, posted at 11.11.10 13:30:04 by bergshark Reply

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  • Treu ,i meant

  • Comment 55, posted at 11.11.10 13:30:22 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 51) : Nope, can’t be, carter is no where near 110kg, and hasn’t done anything respectable in a long time :!: :lol:

  • Comment 56, posted at 11.11.10 13:31:36 by Greg Reply

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  • @robdylan: how bout swannie at blindside flank? :-P

  • Comment 57, posted at 11.11.10 13:32:00 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 56) :

    Damn right (off the field at least!) The bugger went and got engaged!! :lol:

  • Comment 58, posted at 11.11.10 13:39:36 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • @robdylan: you bringing us an update/arti on jean deysel soon?

  • Comment 59, posted at 11.11.10 13:40:04 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 53) : not yet, no

  • Comment 60, posted at 11.11.10 13:45:45 by robdylan Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 57) : I reckon he’d be a better openside flank, actually.

  • Comment 61, posted at 11.11.10 13:46:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 59) : if I hear from him, yup

  • Comment 62, posted at 11.11.10 13:52:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • Swannie must improve his handling..

  • Comment 63, posted at 11.11.10 13:53:20 by bergshark Reply

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  • Heard the guys coming back for training on the 22 nov

  • Comment 64, posted at 11.11.10 13:59:09 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 64) :

    Are you some sort of stalker by any chance? :twisted:

  • Comment 65, posted at 11.11.10 14:00:49 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • @the ice-lady : no,heard it on sharkbite last night :-D

  • Comment 66, posted at 11.11.10 14:04:23 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 65) : I have also heard that.

    But the difference is, I actually AM a stalker.

  • Comment 67, posted at 11.11.10 14:05:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 67) :

    Ja man, but that is mos common knowledge! The Sharks hear “Rob” and they sny ‘n lyn! :lol:

  • Comment 68, posted at 11.11.10 14:08:14 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • @robdylan: if the sharks website and hq were more helpful ,you wouldnt need to go through all that trouble :-)

  • Comment 69, posted at 11.11.10 14:16:56 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 69) : you wouldn’t need my site at all!

  • Comment 70, posted at 11.11.10 14:27:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan:guess so :-) ..and then wpw would be totally lost,not knowing what to do with himself :-D (jokes wpw:-))

  • Comment 71, posted at 11.11.10 14:34:16 by bergshark Reply

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  • What? Will Deysel not be ready for the opening rounds?!

    How long does he take to recover?

    Wonder how much that Strauss no 8 from Lions would cost us hehehe

    I know I know buying isn`t the answer :twisted:

  • Comment 72, posted at 11.11.10 17:50:14 by Original Champion Reply
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  • @Original Champion (Comment 72) : I would honestly be very disappointed if the Sharks bought another loosie. We have so many talented loosies on the fringes.

  • Comment 73, posted at 11.11.10 18:22:35 by war1 Reply
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  • We need a firm decision on Ojiambo: flank or wing. He can be awesome in either position, but needs to be nurtured in one position from now.

  • Comment 74, posted at 11.11.10 18:39:43 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 74) : agree… he needs to pick a position before he starts playing seniors. I call wing.

  • Comment 75, posted at 11.11.10 21:03:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 75) : I say make him a 13?

  • Comment 76, posted at 12.11.10 00:28:58 by Honey Badger Reply

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