The chaos is seemingly continuing. Bandise Maku, Charl McCleod and Odwa Ndungane have all been called up to the Bok squad today. This announcement from SARU comes days after Chilliboy Ralepele and Bjorn Basson were suspended for testing positive for the banned stimulant methylhexaneamine.
At the time P Devil made the point of saying that they would not call up a replacement for Basson, even though he had been injured before the drug test, as it was the right thing to do. SARU and Peter were going to take the moral high ground you see, even though they had a ‘legal’ right to call someone up.
What P Devil was referring to was the understanding that SARU had at the time, that you could not replace players in a squad that had been banned for doping.
Today however as ever, good old Peter was singing a different tune.
“I considered calling them in this week but with all the other disruptions I thought it would be better to focus as much as we could on what is a very important test against Scotland,” said De Villiers. “We can start afresh on Monday morning at the start of what will be a new test week.”
What has emerged is that the IRB regulations dictate that those players banned for drug related offences cannot be replaced during a Rugby World Cup competition only. Confusion reigns in the SARU ranks again. Be prepared for more surrounding how and why the Boks were digesting infested substances.
Take a bow SARU.
Follow me on twitter @sportbilly101
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you just like saying methylhexaneamine, don’t you?
Was on the phone to Gerrie Swart earlier today… you won’t believe how it fails to roll off his tongue
Hardly ‘chaos’ is it?
They mistakenly thought they couldn’t call up replacements. Not a biggie.
This minor mistake has now been rectified.
@McLovin (Comment 2) :
You mean after the “minor mistake” of doping your players and possibly giving them two year bans each?
So just to confirm: Our Bok management team doesnt know whats in the supplements our players are fed and also arent even aware of the IRB regulations.
Wonderful.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 3) : Minor drug.
I will call it “mini chaos”
@robdylan (Comment 6) :
Sure you do keo.
People change their minds all the time, this is no biggie.
I’m sure he thought he had adequate cover till Habs was ruled out, and since we’re flying one over, why not fly a couple?
@molly (Comment 8) : Do the tickets get cheaper by the dozen?
@VinChainSaw (Comment 7) : I didn’t write it!
@McLovin (Comment 2) : @molly (Comment 8) : It follows on from my previous article about chaos..
@robdylan (Comment 6) : Mini chaos is about right but to me showing the cluelessness behind the scenes if we needed any more ammunition.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 4) : About right
Well done Charl, he deserves it. I think winning the cc gave him the edge over Vermaak, Pretorius and Duvenage. I think Burden is very unlucky. Odwa is very lucky though – think van den Heever, Killian or even Shaun Venter(Pumas) would have been better.
@L13 (Comment 13) : Not van den Heever.
:sigh:
So the Bok management team can’t do anything right.
We haven’t just beaten Ireland at home for the first time in 10 yrs!
We’re not unbeaten on tour either.
I wonder if the Boks will get a ‘well done’ article is we do manage to win the Grand Slam.
Oh well what can we do to make its easy niks
I surpose we should be great full its nt the WC2011
and very glad 4 Mc Cloud he is a good player
Mountain – molehill.
I really shaun venter, he is also a good 13 14 11 option concerning depth…can’t believe the cheetahs haven’t looked at him….same..type of player as ronnie cook….My prediction for 2011, given just some super exposure next to Bosman, with those forwards—bye bye Abbi J Helllloooo Piet Linique
@wpw (Comment 15) :
Just what I have been thinking. Will everybody get off the managements back if they achieve the grand slam?
@wpw (Comment 15) : The Boks will most certainly get praise. SARU? No.
You guys almost sound a bit surprised by SARU`s actions.
How long have you been following rugby?
On the day this broke I asked all the journalists and ‘rugby experts’ on twitter whether we will be allowed to call players up.
None of them knew the answer.
@Morné (Comment 22) : Its not ‘experts’ or journalists jobs to know the answer. It is SARU’s.
All it would have taken was a call to the IRB to investigate surely?
Now we sit with the situation where we don’t have wing cover on the bench, and we call up a scrum half on a Thursday before a match, whilst 1 of our 2 scrummies on tour is lying in bed with a sniffle.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 3) : To be honest, I don’t think they’ll get two years for this.
The FS kicking sensation, Something Goosen, who won junior player of the year also tested positive for the substance annd was only banned for three months.
I think their saving grace will be the fact that methylhexaneamine is being reduced onto the ‘stated substance’ list from 1 January 2011. Also the fact that it’s found in nasal decongestants and both players had been suffering from flu. Added in the fact that it has a thousand different names. They’ll probably only miss the first half of the Super 15.
The one who’ll really be screwed over will be Doc Roberts who should know the thousand names and that the players shouldn’t be taking it.
@Sportbilly (Comment 23) : I hate to tell you this, but McLeod and co are only coming through on Monday, so they aren’t really options for the weekend anyway. Maybe Lambie can play there?
@Sportbilly (Comment 23) : i`m with you billy. these okes get paid a hell of alot of money to be aware of the rules and regulations. and if they dont know it, go read it before making announcements. take an attorney for instance, he gets paid to know everything, and if he dont, he reads it up and consult other attorneys before giving the client the answers or guidence. Its not that i want to hammer the management, but its a bit unprofessional from professional okes, thats all. and yes, i will praise them for their coaching genius when they win the grand slam.
@Sportbilly (Comment 23) :
Correct me if I am wrong but the timeline went something along the lines of this;
02:00 am Sunday morning SA Rugby gets a call that two of their players tested positive for banned stimulant.
Monday, players are sent home.
Tuesday, team is announced.
Tuesday, during training Bryan Habana broke his hand.
Late Tuesday, Lwazi is confirmed as player to take Bryan’s place, Bryan goes home.
Wednesday, player’s day off. Bok management planning session.
Thursday, Bok management gets news Hougaard has developed symptoms representing a cold of flu.
Late Thursday, players called up.
News of doping players came through on Monday, Bryan broke his hand on Tuesday, Hougaard got sick on Thursday, and yet you bitch and moan about the Bok management being incompetent?
We have two fit and very able hooker on tour, up and till Thursday, we had two very fit and able scrummies on tour.
Up till late Tuesday, we had more than enough cover on wing.
Not forgetting, we have Jean and Frans that can also covering wing in an emergency.
You cannot pick more than 2 hookers in a match day 22, nor more than 2 scrummies.
So how I fail to see the ‘chaos’ you refer to.
You might ‘expect’ everyone on the Bok management staff to know the 376 page IRB document on regulations back to front, and word for word in the event of anything remotely possibly happening, personally, I would like them to be more pre-occupied with the team.
@Morné (Comment 27) : Looks like Billy’s from the School of Keohane journalism.
@molly (Comment 25) : Oh gosh. Really? So they only flying out on Sunday night? Double Eish.
Its very noble how the Province supporters stand behind their future coach.
@Morné (Comment 27) : Let me spell it out then.
Januarie injured. No scrum half called up. Take 2 on tour. Heard of anyone else in world rugby taking 2 scrummies on a 5 week tour? Disaster waiting to happen in the event of a late injury to a scrummie. We’ve been lucky.
In the same squad you have 3 specialist 10′s in Morne, Pat and Elton with Ruan and Frans also providing cover.
Adi Jacobs called up as ‘specialist’ cover for 13 but utility Zane Kirchner and Frans Steyn played there. Was Adi fit enough in the first place? What’s the reluctance to pick him all of a sudden?
If players had been called up on Monday as was allowed by regulations when Chilli and Bjorn were going home, they would have been there on Tuesday and settled in by this weekend.
Forget wing as there is cover there in case of emergency but what happens if there is a late injury to Bismarck? Whose gonna provide hooking cover from the bench?
PDV’s line about not wanting distruption is kak. They didn’t realise they could call up replacements until Thursday. They then wake up and say “Oh fork” we might only have 1 scrummy available for Sat…
And then I hear the replacements only arrive on Monday!
Someone say chaos?
@Sportbilly (Comment 31) : I too find the reluctance to pick Adi completely baffling…I thought he was Divvie’s boytjie…
@Salmonoid (Comment 30) : Would love to see PDV with a disa on his chest.
@Sportbilly (Comment 33) :
Me too. Im banking on it.
@Sportbilly (Comment 31) : i guess the players (called up) will be used for the baabaas game, but still, why not let them go over right away? why only on monday? shambles…
@Sportbilly (Comment 33) : and allistair with a springbok on his chest??
@Sportbilly (Comment 31) :
Speculation, conjecture, opinion…
Sauce is right, this has Keo written all over it.
On Monday, when you suggest these guys should have been called up, there was no indication that Habana would get injured, or Hougaard would get ‘sniffles’.
If there was a massive crisis, or late injuries, the Bok management has a number of players around the corner in the UK right now they can call upon. All rugby fit, and currently playing.
Whoever would have been called up on Monday would never have been considered for the 22 against the Scots, never. They were always called up for England and cover for that, and the Baabaa’s game.
So the difference between them flying on Monday, or Thursday or even over the weekend, is a moot point.
As for your speculation on why players are played where and for what reasons and who is fit or not, you are not part of the team or planning process, yet you seem to state your opinion as fact?
Sorry, not interested in spelling lessons like that, for that I get my fix on Keo.
@Salmonoid (Comment 30) :
I tell you what I find interesting lately…
Sharks developing an entitlement complex usually associated with the Bulls in making all of them Bokke.
Suppose it comes with the territory.
@VanWilder (Comment 36) : I like Coetzee but I prefer the Heyneke Meyer option just based on his success and experience. Either will do. Or Erasmus.
@Morné (Comment 37) : “Suppose it comes with the territory.” – the cup winning territory? dont worry, you guys will eventually get there…
@VanWilder (Comment 39) :
Hahaha.
Its on that note that I cannot understand how WP is now sponsored by DHL?
There is a complete lack of fit from the two organisations.
I mean WP hasn’t delivered anything in years!!!
@Morné (Comment 37) :
Thats unfair – we are saying that Allister Coetzee and PDivvy should swop roles after the world cup, actually boosting Provinces role in SA rugby. Thats hardly calling for all Sharks to be Boks. Mind you I do wish that Deysel was not injured….
@Morné (Comment 40) : whahahaha!! could have been worse…
Xerox Western Province (swipe at the lions…)
@Salmonoid (Comment 41) :
Mind you I do wish that Deysel was not injured
@Morné (Comment 37) : When a specialist position is not covered due to management not calling up cover I get worried.
It happened with scrumhalf, when Januarie was injured. It happened with hooker when Chilli was banned (and management was unaware of the regulation in this regard).
Game day injuries happen. Test history has proved this. Wales had 2 late replacements against us last Saturday in fact.
When you don’t have 3 hookers or scrumhalves in your squad you are asking for trouble. World wide it is considered the norm to select 3 in your squad whilst touring.
There we go, no opinion, no conjecture, no speculation.
@Salmonoid (Comment 41) : geez, thats something to look forward to, Deysel and Alberts freely roaming the fields of newlands, kings park and loftus…
@Sportbilly (Comment 44) :
I say again, no scrummy, or hooker called up on Sunday or Monday would have played any part in Saturday’s test. If there was a late injury to any specialist position during the week during practice, we have capped Boks in the UK that could have filled that role, and filled it better than anyone called up who has been out of rugby for more than a month in some cases.
It actually happened last year, and that was exactly what was done too.
So again, I fail to see the chaos factor.
Carefull guys….Morne is starting to develop a strong dislike in us Sharks! Be nice to him!
@Pokkel (Comment 47) :
Why would you say that, I spend more time here than on any other website!
@Morné (Comment 48) : I read some comments on another site that had me wondering that’s all!
@Morné (Comment 46) : Schalk Brits? Disaster…
Who would the capped scrumhalf have been? Claassens?
@Pokkel (Comment 47) : how can any wp supporter dislike the sharks? In the last week of October, we brought them to Durban, with true hospitality, gave them a rugby lesson, gave them a peak at our cutlery and all this for free… pfff…
@robdylan (Comment 50) :
Schalk Brits v Maku? My choice is Brits personally.
Scrummy, Claassens yes.
@Pokkel (Comment 49) :
My feelings regarding McCleod? We discussed the same things when selecting the team of the year.
@Morné (Comment 46) : The scrummy should have been called up 3 weeks ago. I’m talking game day injuries. They happen! Have cover. Why not call up players? Expense? Are times that tough? Come on boet, you’re clinging to something that just ain’t there.
@VanWilder (Comment 45) :
I mentioned that to my brother in law the other day – he is a huge Province fan – he just went dead quite.
@Sportbilly (Comment 53) :
McCleod who was part of the touring plans, was injured when they left for the UK.
So call up who?
You have two on tour, and a couple (one capped) in the UK where you are going on tour!
Clinging on? Please, it is just logical but it seems it is only me.
@Morné (Comment 52) : I quite like Maku, to be honest. Solid grafter – got the basics well covered. Doesn’t think he’s a centre…
@Morné (Comment 48) : I know that you place some of your articles on different websites and I find it interesting to see the different reactions on the different sites from the bloggers and your right..sharksworld is very bias towards Sharks players…but then again it is called Shaksworld so forgive us our bias views.
You have 3 scrumhalfs out that are either Bok incumbents, or got injured just prior to the tour (named in the touring squad).
You have two fit ones on tour.
That is 5 scrummies.
So call up another scrummie to do a hospital job (read carrying tackle bags on a free holiday through the UK for 5 weeks)?
If you want a hospital job, then rather use guys already there who is as likely to pull a Bok jersey over their heads next year as the 6th choice scrummy in SA.
Morras, Billy… to be honest, I don’t think you guys are getting anywhere with this one.
It’s fun to watch and all, but maybe agree to disagree and let’s talk about something else?
@robdylan (Comment 56) :
Haha, come now Rob, you know my feelings RE Brits, but you are in the UK and this guy has been playing very good rugby of late.
@Pokkel (Comment 57) :
Fascinating isn’t it.
And there would be something wrong if you were not bias. I am more referring to the clowns on Keo however, not here so no worries.
@Pokkel (Comment 57) : SHARKSworld… it does what it says on the label.
@Morné (Comment 60) : I am ashamed to admit I watch very little (i.e. zero) domestic rugby here. I don’t even watch Sarries when Brad is playing!
@Pokkel (Comment 57) :
No problem with being biased to be honest.
Its just got a bit worse since we all started blogging here!!
@Morné (Comment 58) : hang on…. are you really calling McLeod the 6th choice scrummy in SA?
@robdylan (Comment 62) :
Shame on you. Mailing Brad right now.
@Morné (Comment 55) : I’m sorry but an injured scrumhalf sitting in South Africa is hardly part of your tour plans no matter what PDV would have you believe.
Plenty of other scrumhalves that could have been considered, who is always debatable but thinking anyone of Dewwies, Jano Vermaak or Sarel Potgeiter is a better bet than Claasens or De Kock.
@robdylan (Comment 64) :
No that would be 5, in reference to:
1. Fourie being number 1
2. Januarie having been his deputy for 3 years
3. Ruan being the cover for both (utility)
4. Hougaard the new flavour
5. McCleod playing himself into contention this year
Three of those out injured, two of them being in the initial plans to take on tour.
So given that, what other scrummy stands a hope in hell to actually play a test on tour, or be a Bok next year with all of them back?
Whoever would have been called up 3 weeks ago would have been a poor hospital job sucker, carrying tackle bags and water – seems useless to me.
@robdylan (Comment 59) : Agreed. To disagree with Morne on this one.
Over.
@Sportbilly (Comment 66) :
You have a problem believing what PDV is saying, not the situation, and that is where the problem with this discussion lies.
When PDV says, ‘McCleod was in our plans but got injured before the tour’ you think he is lying.
Cannot form a base for constructive debate from there. You are judging the integrity of the man, not the situation and I am discussing the situation.
Done.
@Morné (Comment 67) : ok – got you. I think he’s better than Ricky, but ja…
@Morné (Comment 69) : Over.
@Morné (Comment 40) :
@robdylan (Comment 71) :
No question, I am just going on the context for the Boks and what we have seen so far and those being used.
@Morné (Comment 74) : ja – fair enough, mate…
P Devil.
@Morné (Comment 58) : If Ruan or Hougaard breaks then Charl is there to cover.
@wpw (Comment 15) : Pensie, what is it that fails to get through to your head? National pride does not only consist of consistent performance (unless you’re Aussie). It’s how you go about doing it. I couldn’t give a shit if Snor won all 4 Trinations during his tenure, the B&I Lions Series, the Grand Slam and the WC. His behaviour is arrogant and unacceptable. He’s giving Saffers the same reputation as Aussies…except unintelligent.
@klempie (Comment 78) : Hear! Hear!
I am honestly shocked that you guys even consider Duvenhage, and I’m a WP supporter. From my point of view he is what is wrong with WP, poor decision maker, average executer… and he is supposedly our future? I’m still absolutely seething about the loss of Hoffman, especially since Dewald can’t step up for the big games.
@molly (Comment 80) : Your honesty is admirable.
@klempie (Comment 78) :
And you’re telling me this why??
Dude, i dont care what YOU think of Div. I really dont.
@molly (Comment 80) :
Sometimes I think you are my twin
@molly (Comment 80) : RETWEET!!
@wpw (Comment 82) : Wes, while your defence of Div on rugby grounds is admirable and has merit, can you not concede that his outbursts make us (as South Africans) look stupid?
@robdylan (Comment 85) :
And I’m not defending Div’s outbursts!!
What do you want me to do?? Write an article about Div’s gaffes??
*sigh*
@wpw (Comment 86) :
Bro, i couldnt care less what other people think of our country.
@molly (Comment 80) : @Morné (Comment 83) : @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 84) : You guys should have a serious talk with ‘ol Vinnie
@Just a Fan (Comment 87) : Don’t you just hate when that happens.
@klempie (Comment 85) : not a nice comment from wpw, and to think i had respect for the man.
@VanWilder (Comment 89) : oops – looks like I missed all the action. Probably better
While I was taken aback by Wes’ statement, I’m not sure it warranted moderation. Just putting that out there.
@rekinek (Comment 90) : the curiosity is killing me….
@Just a Fan (Comment 92) : Comment 85 should explain.
@Just a Fan (Comment 92) : he only said that he could not live with the lies anymore and that he`s actually a HUGE sharks and Francois Steyn fan…
@VanWilder (Comment 94) : I KNEW it!
@klempie (Comment 93) :
Thanks…..Gotta be honest if you are a Sharks supporter you are a SA supporter too no?
@Just a Fan (Comment 96) : I think you’ve got the wrogn end of the stick. The italics in that post is what Wes said.
@klempie (Comment 97) : Um..yes it took me a while to actually get that…but my reply is I understand about being moderated when you say you dont care about your country..sorry its friday, I live in Cape Town, so my brain switched off at lunch time…
@Just a Fan (Comment 100) :
I live in Cape Town, so my brain switched off at lunch time…
There’s a lot of honesty coming out of the Mother City today. First Mols, then Wes and now you!
guys please -let’s all agree to disagree here and move on. The bickering is getting out of hand and is not in keeping with the character of this site.
Billy has aired his opinion and everybody else has had ample opportunity to respond. Enough is enough
@klempie (Comment 101) :
And when are you coming out?
Funny thing is that I find most South Africans don’t need PdV’s help to look stupid – have that well-covered themselves.
@Big Fish (Comment 103) : Wow. No holds barred, eh?
Trying to follow this thread is like trying to follow one red tail-light in the rain. One moment it’s there and the next it’s not actually the one you were following.
@KSA Shark © (Comment 105) :
I won’t ever go on vacation again, I miss to much.
@KSA Shark © (Comment 107) : Especially when Wes and I are having one of our tiffs.
@klempie (Comment 108) :
@wpw (Comment 86) : There are so many and they are so frequent it would only be ready for publication months after he is no longer coach…
Didnt know Peter de Villiers was a translator/politician/uni lecturer.
He’s a rugby coach and, as such, his statements made in public are quite irrelevant to me and a minor distraction from what his job really entails.
I’m a bit puzzled about how one man can make SA look bad… especially given our political history and ongoing problems.
Some guys will just use any stick to beat a guy – just ignore them.
@klempie (Comment 93) : Give us the censored version.
@McLovin (Comment 112) : Comment 87 in italics. Uncensored.
@klempie (Comment 113) : Seriously? That’s it? All of it?
@klempie (Comment 93) : Wes moderated his own comment. It’s all been fixed now.
Nothing more to see
@robdylan (Comment 115) :
@klempie (Comment 78) : I kind of disagree.
While some of Mr de Villiers’ statements makes one cringe, winning is everything to me.
So as long as the Boks win I don’t care if the coach shows up for press conferences/interviews wearing a mankini and answering questions in Klingon.
But that’s just me.
@McLovin (Comment 117) :
Agreed McLovin.
Would rather have a coach who wins and looks like a fool in the post-match pressie than a coach who charms one and all but couldnt buy a win. A certain Welsh coach is a good example.
@McLovin (Comment 117) :
@VinChainSaw (Comment 118) :
Was just speaking with a friend about this.
Isn’t it ironic that there is more intense discussion around PdV now that we are doing so well on the EOYT than there was when we were struggling through the 3N?
@KSA Shark © (Comment 119) :
Isn’t it ironic that there is more intense discussion around PdV
There is?
@klempie (Comment 120) :
you guys have been going at it a lot harder than usual lately.
@KSA Shark © (Comment 121) : I really haven’t. In fact, I’ve hardly been on here during the EOYT.
@klempie (Comment 122) :
Just the impression I got, although i have been spending less time on the site in the last few weeks.
@KSA Shark © (Comment 123) :
@klempie (Comment 124) :
maybe it’s just a coincidence that you have been vocal when i’ve been on.
@KSA Shark © (Comment 125) : Well I think the only times I’ve really been on were on game day, when I was punting for the opposition. I think that’s generally the time you’ve been on too.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 111) :
Part of this might be because of me, as I have stated many times a coach is more than just a coach, he is so much more.
What irritates the living shit out of me though (sorry Rob), is when a coach is judged on happenings which forms part of responsibilities outside of his mandate. The Bok machine is made up of close to 30 staff members, all with a job.
The Job of PDV, is to win, simple.
But as is very clear, that is not good enough for the SA public or rather let me say, the media.
Today I saw comments made months ago, when Plum went through some stick in the Super 14, and then I compared that to what I read in the recent month or so.
I came to the conclusion a coach, no matter who, is in for a hiding not matter what. Thank goodness I stopped while I was still ahead.
We are 160 minutes away from a feat we have not achieved in 50 years!!!
And just look around the main-stream media websites what is being discussed.
I am at a loss.
@Morné (Comment 127) : You have a point…it’s a bit like telling a world cup winning coach he needs to re-apply for his job….why should pdv get special treatment.