Morné

Hospital job will lead to Bok trauma


Written by Morné Nortier (Morné)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 22 Nov 2010 at 13:18
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The Grand Slam dream is over.  The one thing that could have redeemed the Boks and its management came to an embarrassing end on Saturday as the Springboks went down to the Scots, and as my three-year old would say; ‘Now what now?”

Indeed, what now?

Predictably I see calls all over the show for De Villiers to get fired, even my friends from SharksWorld are asking me over emails whether I still ‘back him’?

To answer that it would probably be best to go back to what I said about the Springboks, and Springbok management in the past, and that was, if a decision is made regarding the Springboks and especially management, it has to be done with the view on improving the current situation.

Now of course the first reaction of most will be; ‘How can it get any worse than what we have seen in 2010, and a loss like we had against Scotland last weekend?’, and although I would agree it might not get any worse, I believe change like the ones suggested now, won’t improve anything either.

Firstly one has to look at De Villiers in isolation, and ask whether he is a good, or bad coach?  There are arguments both ways and his record although having a lot of downs, has had a lot of ups too.

Secondly we would have to look the team environment and if a new coach is appointed right now, if much or anything will change?

I don’t think De Villiers is necessarily a bad coach, but I do think there is a lot of scope for improvement.  I have voiced my concerns about the Boks and De Villiers often in the past, most importantly of which is my belief of the lack of expertise in the coaching department to assist the head coach.

Secondly, and more recently, is my concern with De Villiers seemingly being hesitant to make the tough calls, and wrestle some power back which he has extended too much to the senior players in the recent past – in other words, I think the setup needs discipline.

All of these are issues that can be easily rectified in my view, which is why I suppose I ‘back’ the coach.

Now the primary reason for not ‘backing’ the coach is centred around the World Cup it seems, where there is no hope in hell of us winning it, and that changing coaches even at this late stage, will change that or give us some hope.

I find this amusing if not a bit daft.

If we are going to fire a coach because we do not believe he can win a World Cup that has not taken place yet, then why appoint a coach for that sole purpose which will no doubt be nothing more than a hospital job?

Many who has read my views during the last World Cup will know I detest the competition.  Union’s whole cycle is built around that and say what you want about the guy, Keohane is right about one thing, the Rugby World Cup is just another tournament like the Six Nations or Tri-Nations, with the only difference being that it is a knock-out tournament which is both easy to win, and easy to lose for that very reason.

So why do we need a coach, or any team, to build 4 bloody long years towards one where results inbetween (just look at Jake White) means nothing?  The World Cup is a competition which needs the same, or similar build up to any competition.

But the reality is, everything now is about the World Cup.

And this brings me to the team context (excluding coaches).

If we do bring in Heyneke, Rassie, Allister, Mitchell, Plumtree or any of the other names touted as possible replacement to De Villiers should he be fired today, how will the team and player context change, if at all?

Given it will be a hospital job to ensure we stand a good chance of winning the World Cup, will any of these coaches drop John Smit, Victor, Schalk, Juan, Fourie, Morne, Jean, Habana or any of the seasoned senior Boks who are incumbents when fit?

Will there be a dramatic or evolutionary change in the way we play the game in the 5 tests left leading up to the World Cup?

I don’t think so.

None of them will make Victor a better line-out specialist, Morne a better kicker, Fourie a better scrumhalf or John a better captain.

So as much as De Villiers and his assistants deserve a lot of blame for the embarrassing loss to Scotland over the weekend, or the whole of 2010, the problem is not them alone but also the players, and how they execute on the field.

I will be bold enough to say that none of the coaches suggested to take over from De Villiers will have the balls to change the Bok approach fundamentally, because for that they would need to change the team, and team personnel fundamentally.  In fact, no matter who takes over, I expect a similar game plan to what we saw in 2009 and 2010, because that is what our players know and trust.

Peter de Villiers is being asked to resign or be fired (by the media) based on the World Cup next year, and I think that is stupid.  So if you ask me in the current context or the one explained here if I still back De Villiers, my answer is quite simply yes.

However, if you ask me if I believe we can appoint a better coach right now for Springbok rugby as a whole, looking beyond just a World Cup but looking to win at least 75% of our games over extended periods, I would say yes.

So by all means, fire De Villiers, but do it for the right reasons, and a World Cup hospital job is not it.



167 Comments

  • agree with you, Morne. We need to fix the problem for the sake of fixing the problem, not for the sake of trying to win the World Cup.

    Any coach that comes on board now needs to have the power to fundamentally alter the structures in place and have the security of at least 2 years in the job to get back to the top. ow why does this all start to sound so familiar?

  • Comment 1, posted at 22.11.10 13:30:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • Hospital job will lead to Bok trauma

    Cool title Morras. :cool:

    Disagree with everything else. Div must go.

  • Comment 2, posted at 22.11.10 13:38:52 by klempie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : I agree.If we’re not going to win the WC then we might as well make changes now…why wait till after the WC

  • Comment 3, posted at 22.11.10 13:41:54 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I think Div and Co must go. Kitch Christie did a great patch up job and so did the england coach b4 2007. If we make changes now we can still be successful at the world cup.

  • Comment 4, posted at 22.11.10 13:46:29 by RuckingFun Reply

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  • I’m also thinking that Divvie is too ‘buddy buddy’ with the players and some discipline is needed. What worried me even more is Divvie’s attitude after the game. I watched All Out Rugby yesterday and with the interview with Divvy he seemed to have a ‘don’t care’ attitude. ‘So we lost this one, so what there is always next week’ attitude. The other thing that concerns me is that he doesn’t seem to acknowledge or understand where the problem is exactly and he’s always looking for excuses elsewhere for the reason the Boks lost.

  • Comment 5, posted at 22.11.10 13:47:47 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 5) :
    I watched All Out Rugby yesterday and with the interview with Divvy he seemed to have a ‘don’t care’ attitude. ‘So we lost this one, so what there is always next week’ attitude.

    Saw that too. Disgusting.

  • Comment 6, posted at 22.11.10 13:48:41 by klempie Reply

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  • Thanks for the article Morras !!

  • Comment 7, posted at 22.11.10 13:48:57 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 5) :

    You cannot expect to fix the system, if you are part of the system.

    Player power has gone too far.

  • Comment 8, posted at 22.11.10 13:50:41 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 8) : How do you fix the ‘player power’ problem in the squad without replacing the coach? It will be very difficult IMO

  • Comment 9, posted at 22.11.10 13:54:16 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Here is something I posted months ago.

    If players are relied upon to drive preparation, then it’s far more likely that they will stick to one thing and not evolve, especially if they’re great players who know success. This is the reason why many great players become very poor coaches – they tend to do what worked for them.

    The best coaches are often players who had limited ability and had to think very creatively to compensate! Also, if players own too much of the ‘intellect’ and strategy, then it makes the integration of new players difficult, because their dynamic within the squad is complex.

    Generally, having the parts of the system drive the system is a bad idea in terms of sustainability, it needs external guidance and drive.

    If 15 players each make 1 error more than usual, because of focus, or desire not being exactly where it needs to be, then that’s 15 errors a match and enough to hand 14 points to the opposition. The players of course wouldn’t ever admit to this, and they may well be unaware.

  • Comment 10, posted at 22.11.10 13:54:47 by Morné Reply
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  • im not a fan of Pdiddy…BUT…with RWC in mind he did what no coach has done in a long time…beat NZ in NZ and 3 times on the trot last year…remember how bad we were in 06 when Jake was nearly fired…i think Pdiddy can take us to NZ and win it…

    guess we have to wait and see but something to ponder…

    JW had a terrible 06 and won the RWC in 07

    Pdiddy having a terrible 10 and win will the RWC in NZ in 2011…

    and he has history of doing it in NZ…

    remember he will have smit back as well and a few others to fall on…

    BACK THE BOKS

    MY BLOOD IS GREEN

  • Comment 11, posted at 22.11.10 14:06:19 by Barrel Reply

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  • @Barrel (Comment 11) : Im going to go with you on this one

  • Comment 12, posted at 22.11.10 14:18:19 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • Morne, I agree that far to much emphasis is placed on the World Cup. This line interested me: “looking beyond just a World Cup but looking to win at least 75% of our games over extended periods”

    Who would you elect as Springbok management to achieve this?

  • Comment 13, posted at 22.11.10 14:22:27 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Morne, let’s call a spade a spade: calls for PDV’s head are hysteria based on anger and not logic.

    I’d love to hear from someone how they would go about maintaining stability and improving our lot before the WC after firing PDV – Jake White is probably the only coach desperate enough to take the job, and he hasn’t coached in 3 years!

  • Comment 14, posted at 22.11.10 14:27:54 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Barrel (Comment 11) : I hope you’re right. The difference for me though is that Jake was building a new team through that time were Divvy has got a team with all the experience and he’s going backwards.

  • Comment 15, posted at 22.11.10 14:33:16 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 14) : I can’t let that slide, Fish. It is completely logical to contemplate firing a coach who has the sort of record that Peter has returned in 2010. Completely.

    What is illogical is expecting that the man brought in is going to magically win the World Cup. My take is that 2011 is New Zealand’s year and it doesn’t really matter who else plays, because the All Blacks are not going to lose that one. Trust me – Paddy will ensure it even if the team themselves can’t.

    So it’s logical to get rid of de Villiers and replace him with someone else who can take the team forward. The World Cup is just part of that process, but must not be seen as the goal in and of itself.

  • Comment 16, posted at 22.11.10 14:41:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 16) : I agree totally…why wait another year before making changes even if the change won’t win us a World Cup

  • Comment 17, posted at 22.11.10 14:47:11 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Robbie, you may be right that PDV is not delivering at the standard he should be – hell, you are certainly right!

    But assuming (and maybe this is where you differ) we still want to push for the WC, what is the other, better option?

    I still believe we can win this if we make some changes, but only if we have continuity. Say cheers after the WC by all means.

  • Comment 18, posted at 22.11.10 14:49:45 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 18) : that’s a very astute question… busy pondering now

  • Comment 19, posted at 22.11.10 14:51:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 18) : I don’t think the WC result will be any different with or without Divvy…so why wait?

  • Comment 20, posted at 22.11.10 14:52:05 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 18) : ok, so let me start by saying this – and maybe turning the question around. What do YOU see as the 3 most fundamental changes that need to be made in order for the Boks (under Div) to stand a chance of at least making the final of the WC? I’m working on my answer in parallel

  • Comment 21, posted at 22.11.10 14:52:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 18) : What changes do you suggest? Divvy already tried to get other coaches to help without success.

  • Comment 22, posted at 22.11.10 14:53:50 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @RuckingFun (Comment 4) : I’m inclined to agree with you BUT where will we find another Tich :?: :?: :?:

  • Comment 23, posted at 22.11.10 14:53:51 by Me2 aka Mama Shark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 16) : Slightly off-topic but this is bothering me. It seems to be the in thing to propagate this Paddy-will-ensure-an-All-Black-WC-win conspiracy at the moment. There may be a lot of bias in the IRB but what you’re suggesting borders on match fixing. Is the rumour-mongering really necessary?

  • Comment 24, posted at 22.11.10 14:57:58 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 14) :

    I’d love to hear from someone how they would go about maintaining stability and improving our lot before the WC after firing PDV

    OK I’ll bite.

    Firstly, PDiv is an idiot and embarrassment to SA. On that basis alone he should’ve been out the door ages ago. End of. I’m just glad SARU have gone through this little experiment, and hope they’ve learnt from their mistake.

    Now that that’s out of the way, what to do about the World Cup? Well, if I’m honest, there’s probably too little time left for anyone to come in and turn things around. We’ve got, what, 5 Test matches between now and then? Write it off.

    Get someone new in (on MERIT), someone who shows the ability to adapt when things aren’t working, who is able to admit when he’s wrong, who is amicable with the media, humble, INTELLIGENT, and can string coherent sentences together. Any of Plum (I know, I know. A kiwi. In my dreams), Mitchell (although he may be a bit *too* controlling) or Coetzee will do.

    Inform the candidate that he will have the reigns until the end of the 2015 WC no matter what happens next year. I personally believe that sides CAN be turned around in short time, the Sharks being an obvious example. It’s not impossible. But should that goal not be achieved, the 2015 WC is still the target.

    I’d also like to add, that we wouldn’t be in this predicament if they’d got rid of Helium Pete sooner.

  • Comment 25, posted at 22.11.10 14:59:22 by klempie Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 20) : I do. I think it will be better. Maybe not a tournament win, but I don’t see us getting past the quarter finals with that sad sack dragging his moustache ends around with him.

  • Comment 26, posted at 22.11.10 15:02:48 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 25) : Enjoyed that comment ;-)

  • Comment 27, posted at 22.11.10 15:03:01 by Me2 aka Mama Shark Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 25) : Klempie that must be the longest post ever by you were you actually spoke about rugby :shock:

  • Comment 28, posted at 22.11.10 15:04:21 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : @Pokkel (Comment 22) :

    I see you guys are of the “the best defence is a good offence” fraternity. :cool:

  • Comment 29, posted at 22.11.10 15:05:07 by klempie Reply

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  • @Me2 aka Mama Shark (Comment 27) : @Pokkel (Comment 28) :
    I couldn’t take the INANITY anymore!!

    :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 30, posted at 22.11.10 15:06:08 by klempie Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 24) : it was a throwaway comment, to be honest, mate. Wouldn’t read too much into it

  • Comment 31, posted at 22.11.10 15:06:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 28) : spoke about rugby? Really? Then why did I have to edit it?

    I swear, klempie, some days that platinum star of yours is the ONLY thing that stops me deleting your login permanently.

  • Comment 32, posted at 22.11.10 15:08:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 31) : Gutter journalism.

  • Comment 33, posted at 22.11.10 15:09:44 by klempie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 31) : The part you edited wasn’t THAT bad… :roll:

  • Comment 34, posted at 22.11.10 15:10:25 by Pokkel Reply
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  • So – for the Boks to do well at the World Cup with PDivvy in charge:

    1) The coach needs to be given complete and unwavering authority and autonomy over every aspect of the team – selection, tactics, the works. Div must be given carte blanche and be told that he does it ALL his way and must be held accountable for the results. This includes sorting out the issue of senior players having any say in selection or tactics.
    2) Get rid of the current assistants, neither of whom is helping matters one jot. Div needs to replace them with men who share his vision and are prepared to help him implement it. Problem is, I don’t think he’ll find those men, because I don’t think anyone knows what his vision is.
    3) Get rid of the outdated kick-at-all-costs gameplan and focus on ball retention and quick possession as the primary goal of ANY move. If the players we have can’t do that, then get new players. We have more than enough of them in Durban.

  • Comment 35, posted at 22.11.10 15:12:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 18) : If the changes you’re suggesting includes a change of coaching staff I’m with you ;-) .

    Obviously it’s not. So in the immortal words of Bill Lumberg, “uuhm, I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there.”

    I can’t see the current coaching team suddenly getting things right. If they could they would have already.

    Think about it. What more motivation is there than fighting for survival and the honour of taking a team to the World Cup.

    Yet we have seen absolutely no progress, a game plan that didn’t work in the 3N still in use, a complete inability to adapt and impliment a Plan B, and worst of all, a complete cluelessness in how to manage substitutions.

    These are things inherent to this coaching team, so as long as they remain we will struggle.

  • Comment 36, posted at 22.11.10 15:13:31 by rhineshark Reply
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  • Duf should go,does he even coach?

  • Comment 37, posted at 22.11.10 15:13:48 by Honey Badger Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 34) : Thanks big guy. :cool:

  • Comment 38, posted at 22.11.10 15:13:57 by klempie Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 33) : rules is rules and let’s be honest, he doesn’t have a great track record.

    You guys honestly think that if you contravene in a cute, or clever, way, it’s going to make me any more lenient? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 39, posted at 22.11.10 15:14:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) : If memory serves though, it not the first time you’ve made that allegation?

  • Comment 40, posted at 22.11.10 15:14:25 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 39) : We can try! :mrgreen:

    Now can you please unmoderate comment 30?

  • Comment 41, posted at 22.11.10 15:16:11 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 37) : ;-)

  • Comment 42, posted at 22.11.10 15:17:02 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 40) : Curious. What is the text in your “motivational poster”?

  • Comment 43, posted at 22.11.10 15:21:30 by klempie Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 40) : isn’t it?

    Ok, so look… I think it’s clear that the All Blacks get the rub of the green when it comes to reffing decisions far more often than other sides do, especially us. Right now, they’er playing so superbly that it doesn’t matter. But somehow I just don’t see something like “the Barnes debacle” that knocked them out of the World Cup being allowed to go down on home soil – not while Paddy is in charge.

    That’s not an allegation or accusation about anything. It’s just a feeling I have.

    Let’s be honest, though. The poor buggers deserve to win that thing, don’t they? I mean putting aside our “blood is green” blinkers for just a minute. We’re not in the same class as them right now and I honestly don’t see us closing the gap any time soon. Not the way we’re going about things.

  • Comment 44, posted at 22.11.10 15:23:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 39) : @klempie (Comment 38) : Klempie is like Bakkies….his previous infringments counts against him. If someone else left that well worded sentence you would have probably let is slide :mrgreen:

  • Comment 45, posted at 22.11.10 15:24:35 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) :

    Let’s be honest, though. The poor buggers deserve to win that thing, don’t they? I mean putting aside our “blood is green” blinkers for just a minute. We’re not in the same class as them right now and I honestly don’t see us closing the gap any time soon.

    Shhhhhh. HH will hear you. :razz:

  • Comment 46, posted at 22.11.10 15:25:35 by klempie Reply

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  • On a different topic, I find the ‘my blood is green’ slogan rather peculiar.

  • Comment 47, posted at 22.11.10 15:26:04 by McLovin Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 45) : Ahem. I have never been suspended, thank you very much. :cool:

  • Comment 48, posted at 22.11.10 15:26:16 by klempie Reply

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  • @McLovin (Comment 47) : I’m less than enamoured with it myself if I’m honest.

  • Comment 49, posted at 22.11.10 15:27:10 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 43) : INTIMIDATION. Loyalty is gained through hard work and perseverance, but is gained faster through intimidation.

    A horrible sentence and not in any way indicative of any personal beliefs :mrgreen: . I just really liked the two Shark fins.

  • Comment 50, posted at 22.11.10 15:29:00 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 48) : But you’ve been damn close on several occasions….and the only reason is because Rob can go back and edit your comments….Bakkies doesn’t have that luxury :mrgreen:

  • Comment 51, posted at 22.11.10 15:29:11 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 45) : well, live by the sword…

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.11.10 15:29:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 50) : :razz:

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.11.10 15:29:42 by klempie Reply

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  • I don’t think the AB’s deserve to win the WC. It would be a step backwards imo. If they win the world will think that it’s acceptable to cheat.

    What is their yellow card to penalty ratio and how many penalties do they concede in their own 22?

    :evil: :evil: :evil:

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.11.10 15:30:41 by McLovin Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : Fair enough.

    I’m in complete agreement with your second comment by the way. If they continue with their current form and (heaven forbid) improve on it then they thoroughly deserve to be world champions.

  • Comment 55, posted at 22.11.10 15:34:00 by vanmartin Reply
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  • To paraphrase some American teaching BS.
    There is no such thing as a bad coach, only bad coaching.

    Will better coaching turn Matfield, Smit, Steyn etc. into better players? No. Will it turn them into better team players? Yes.

    Will better coaching win SA the WC? No. Will it increase the probability of winning the WC? Yes.

    And if player-power in the current system is a problem, then the only way to break it is with a new coach.

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.11.10 15:39:19 by fyndraai Reply
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  • What annoys me most is that Big Fish lays down the gauntlet like that, I respond….and nothing. :roll:

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.11.10 15:42:04 by klempie Reply

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  • Why does everyone seem to forget just how good the All Blacks were in 2002, 2006, and for that matter 1998, and we all know how well they did in RWCs the following years. Why would we think this time is any different? Sure I know it “could” be different, but history does have a way of repeating itself.

    A lot of SA rugby supporters tend to blow very hot and cold, depending on how well the team is doing. This is not any different.

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.11.10 15:45:19 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 58) : Just cause the AB’s might ‘choke’ it still doesn’t solve our problem and won’t guarantee us the title. It might however open the door for another team to take the title.

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.11.10 15:48:41 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 58) : As much as I love this place and my fellow bloggers, a lot of people who frequent this site, our beloved host included, could do well to temper their emotions about the Boks (and Sharks) just a little bit. :wink:

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.11.10 15:49:12 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 59) : Understood, I was really referring to Rob’s comment that they deserve to win in 2011 because they are so good now, also his comment that 2011 is their year.

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.11.10 15:50:06 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 61) : It seemed, reading Rob’s comment, that the only team that has a chance to win is the ABs, nobody has mentioned a single other team though.

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.11.10 15:51:22 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 60) : It’s a hell of a lot better here than elsewhere and rugby is all about emotion and passion and we need to debate without getting personal.

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.11.10 15:53:08 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 62) : If the Boks don’t win the WC next year I’ll be supporting the AB’s because they play beautifull rugby at the moment.

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.11.10 15:54:32 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 63) : ;-) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.11.10 15:54:36 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 64) : My Saturday was actually made better watching the AB’s vs Ireland after the disappointment of the Boks game.

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.11.10 15:55:56 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 64) : That’s where I differ, I will never support another team, if the Boks do not win the RWC, I really don’t give a toss who wins, I will simply be disappointed by the Boks loss.

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.11.10 15:56:15 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 67) : I admire the way the AB’s play and at the same time get extremely frustrated because I know we have the talent in SA but we just don’t manage to play to our full potential on a regular basis.

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.11.10 15:58:43 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Also, if the ABs deserve to win the RWC next year based on their form this year, why didn’t the Boks deserve to win all matches on their end of year tour last year after their BIL and Tri-Nations wins? Sorry, form this year means nothing for the RWC, nothing at all, and no team has proven this better than the ABs.

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.11.10 15:59:26 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 66) : A masterful few minutes either side of half time just when the Irish thought they had a shot. BAM! 1-2-3. Blown out of the water. Game over.

    Was awesome watching a team that knows how to win.

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.11.10 15:59:47 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 58) : Mister DB how goes it sailor?
    Unrelated question but have you seen with clip of the Northampton scrum marching some poor sods 40m down the pitch?With Mujati at TH nogals (nothing to do with Mujati but more just the awesomness of the scrum)

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.11.10 16:00:48 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 68) : I agree, but it is not all rosy in NZ, it seems every year before a RWC year, everyone talks about how wonderful it is to watch the ABs play and how frustrated we are that SA can not play like that. And then the ABs choke, so who is more frustrated, the SA fans, or the NZ fans? Neither team or their fans deserve the RWC win.

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.11.10 16:01:11 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 58) : This is different.

    I always support the Boks. I don’t care who plays or coaches them. I do however want to see my team to win consistently (not just in world cup years to use your example). I want to seem them adapt when new laws are introduced. To sum it up and to paraphrase Morne: “I want to see them being managed and coached well and play intelligently as a result”.

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.11.10 16:01:17 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 71) : Have not seen it. Is there a youtube video? Would love to see that. One would think that once you went backwards 5 metres like that, you would just drop to ground and eat the penalty, at least avoid a try and force the oppo kicker to take a difficult kick. :lol:

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.11.10 16:03:37 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 70) : And the funny thing was that the Irish commentators couldn’t stop praising the Irish for how well they were playing(and they were pretty good) but they still lost by 20. If you just listened to the commentators you’d swear that the Irish were winning.

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.11.10 16:04:28 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 73) : I agree with you. My point was intended to counter Rob’s contention that the ABs deserve to win the RWC based on their current form.

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.11.10 16:05:10 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 74) : I kept waiting for the scrum to fall but nope, all the way.

    Will find the link for you now

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.11.10 16:07:07 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 75) : It is amazing the difference in perspective. The Boks ran the ABs close and beat the Aussies at home in 2010, and the SA supporters were bitterly disappointed in the Bok performance in the Tri-Nations. The English run the ABs close and beat the Aussies at home and all my English friends can talk about is just how great the English team is right now, and how they will destroy the Boks. Quite laughable really, they do get upset when I laugh at them though.

  • Comment 78, posted at 22.11.10 16:08:02 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 77) : Rugby dump has it, they also set up a killer maul didn’t they?

  • Comment 79, posted at 22.11.10 16:09:12 by molly Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 77) : You hardly see a scrum going 5 metres without disintegrating or collapsing. Definitely want to see this.

  • Comment 80, posted at 22.11.10 16:09:30 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 79) : yep its on rugbydump, ive got the link here but trying to get around posting it on the site

  • Comment 81, posted at 22.11.10 16:10:33 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 75) : Right. Up to that point Ireland were actually doing pretty well. Before THE END by the Doors started playing just before half time :mrgreen:

  • Comment 82, posted at 22.11.10 16:11:13 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 80) : Ok ill break the link up a bit, you can patch it up http://rugbydump (.)blogspot(.)com/2010/11/ midweek-madness-northampton-saints-30m.html

  • Comment 83, posted at 22.11.10 16:12:08 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 76) : To be fair, I think he meant to imply that if they continue with their current form they deserve to win.

  • Comment 84, posted at 22.11.10 16:16:30 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 83) : :lol: funny, who was that 19 on the side of the scrum getting destroyed and doing nothing to help. LH on the losing side was scrumming straight in, good example of how staying square and tight can destroy a scrum that is cheating.

  • Comment 85, posted at 22.11.10 16:16:58 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 84) : He should have said that then, because history does not support the contention their current form would continue. :wink:

  • Comment 86, posted at 22.11.10 16:17:50 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 85) : A host of illegalities on the losing side. The scrumhalf dropped back from the scrum, but did not go 5 metres like he is required, every player became unbound at the end. Funny, yet sad a professional team could be so poor.

  • Comment 87, posted at 22.11.10 16:20:39 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 83) : Holy crap! :shock:

  • Comment 88, posted at 22.11.10 16:21:51 by klempie Reply

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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 60) : what would this place be without my occasional fits of pique, DB?

  • Comment 89, posted at 22.11.10 16:22:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • Also, the hooker that stopped the maul was offside and totally missed by the ref.

  • Comment 90, posted at 22.11.10 16:23:27 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Swing low, sweet chariot
    Coming for to carry me home,
    Swing low, sweet chariot,
    Coming for to carry me home :twisted:

  • Comment 91, posted at 22.11.10 16:25:01 by Honey Badger Reply

    Honey BadgerCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 85) : :razz:

  • Comment 92, posted at 22.11.10 16:30:26 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 89) : Of course :wink: not going to stop me pointing them out. :grin: Nothing but love my friend. :smile:

  • Comment 93, posted at 22.11.10 16:33:43 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @klempie (Comment 25) :
    Very generalised suggestions there. Appoint whom? Give a person, not a bunch of characteristics – who fits the bill? Will they take the rescue job? Are they free from a contract? Will they be free to act differently? Do they actually do much different?

    PdV came in with many big ideas on how his legacy was gonna be different from White, but the reality is that if the shit aint broke, it takes an awfully brave man to fix it – eventually he just accepted many of White’s Winning Ways.

    Sail the ship home, and change the master and commander at the home port once the WC voyage is over.

  • Comment 94, posted at 22.11.10 16:34:20 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 92) & @Dancing Bear (Comment 85) : Who is the 19? I don’t know the Newcastle team, or that many overseas teams for that matter.

  • Comment 95, posted at 22.11.10 16:35:41 by molly Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 78) : Keeping this in mind, anyone want to tell me why they think the Boks have no chance against England?

  • Comment 96, posted at 22.11.10 16:35:46 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 95) : Looks like Brent Wilson. Kiwi flanker. Used to play for North Harbour and the Blues.

  • Comment 97, posted at 22.11.10 16:47:55 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 95) : 19 is some guy by the name of Mark Sorenson, he just stood out because he did absolutely nothing to support the scrum at any point through the whole debacle. He was more interested in looking around and binding on the opposition which is not allowed.

  • Comment 98, posted at 22.11.10 16:48:36 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 97) : According to the match report, 19 was Mark Sorenson.

  • Comment 99, posted at 22.11.10 16:49:15 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 97) : Shotto! Don’t even recognise the name :oops:

  • Comment 100, posted at 22.11.10 16:49:15 by molly Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 98) : Except that Sorenson is a lock. Unless he played blind-side flank that day.

    I also initially thought it was him from the squad list, because he is put on as 19. But Sorenson plays with a scrum cap and the guy on the video looks a lot more like Wilson.

  • Comment 101, posted at 22.11.10 16:49:46 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 101) : I wouldn’t know, just read the match report on the Newcastle site, and they listed 19 as Mark Sorenson.

  • Comment 102, posted at 22.11.10 16:51:54 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 102) : Gcobani Bobo is listed in the Newcastle squad.

  • Comment 103, posted at 22.11.10 16:53:36 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 101) : Haha, I’m an idiot, I was looking a the Northampton 22 for the match. You’re right of course it was Wilson in 19 for Newcastle.

  • Comment 104, posted at 22.11.10 16:55:30 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 102) : Exactly what I did, but the guy didn’t look the same, so I delved a little deeper and found the Wilson chap’s pic on his Bio. Then I watched the scrum video again and 19 has the same sideburns as Wilson, where Sorenson doesn’t have sideburns at all and seems to play with a scrum cap.

    This was the most and sum total I’ve ever learned about Newcastle. The only other club rugby side I know and support other than the Sharks is Toulouse.

  • Comment 105, posted at 22.11.10 16:57:05 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 104) : I did the same thing until I had a second scrounge :lol:

  • Comment 106, posted at 22.11.10 16:59:46 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @rhineshark (Comment 106) : :lol: at least you recognized some of the players.

  • Comment 107, posted at 22.11.10 17:11:23 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 94) : lots of flowery language, but not much content there, Fishy… :)

  • Comment 108, posted at 22.11.10 17:51:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 108) :
    Glad we can still agree on some things ole buddy. :wink:

  • Comment 109, posted at 22.11.10 18:11:26 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Ten months out or so till rwc..perhaps start a count down clock to the big event,rob?
    Compared top the abs,we are in a terrible state..but we were so close @orlando..and what if bakkies didn’t head-butt cowan(and the tj saw cowan’s indiscretion?)?what if danie rossouw didn’t step on mcgaw and steyn nailed the pen?
    I know,I know..building hopes on “what ifs”..but on such things games turn..
    We have mentioned the abs style of play but something else that struck me was their “physicality” in the games vs boks ..read on a kiwi site that the numbers @breakdown gave it to the abs( boks being outnumbered @breakdowns and dominated..but that is a mixture of tactics and fitness,reckon..abs look big AND are fit..)

  • Comment 110, posted at 22.11.10 18:13:04 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 109) : it’s an old trick, but a good’un nonetheless!

  • Comment 111, posted at 22.11.10 18:15:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 111) :
    I’m still an O.G.

    Anyway, my post was a question – surely you weren’t expecting too much meat on it?

    My point is that its one thing to paint the picture of this option being less than satisfactory – quite another to identify a better one.

    Classic human foible.

  • Comment 112, posted at 22.11.10 18:20:46 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 112) : it’s a kind of defeatist attitude, though… cos you’re kind of admitting that the Boks aren’t really going to get better than this (losing to Scotland) no matter what we do

  • Comment 113, posted at 22.11.10 18:26:37 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 113) :
    Come on Rob, you are far more sophisticated than that!

    I’m saying that choosing to ride this horse, but adjusting the saddle and making some other changes is better than buying and beginning to train a new horse.

    I never said no changes should be made – its the kind and quantum of change that we apparently disagree on.

  • Comment 114, posted at 22.11.10 18:35:06 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Big fish,we don’t wanna change the horse but the jockey..

  • Comment 115, posted at 22.11.10 19:06:49 by bergshark Reply

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  • Don’t think the problem is the saddle ..if anything,the reins(if the coach is under the thumb of the senior players)

  • Comment 116, posted at 22.11.10 19:10:02 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 114) : so far, I haven’t seen you list your changes, though… or did I miss them somewhere?

  • Comment 117, posted at 22.11.10 19:11:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • Lol rather like the horse riding the jockey! ..(Don’t think it true though,that senior players are running team selections and on-field strategy)

  • Comment 118, posted at 22.11.10 19:13:07 by bergshark Reply

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  • Rob I think you are being a bit simplistic.

    The margins between winning and losing in professional rugby is extremely small.

    Simply consider where the Sharks were in the Super 14 and where they ended up not 5 months afterwards – and nothing suggests that the success of the CC is going to result in success in next year’s Super rugby competition.

    Point is, like I said above and before, if every guy, or even just 10 guys are 1% off their game the team is 10% off their game, and in pro rugby, that is a shit lot.

    We are not down and dead – we know these players can beat anyone in the world, they just need to get that click the Sharks found from the Super 14 to the Currie Cup, and it is not that complicated to find it – it just requires small changes. Mostly in attitude than personnel or skill.

  • Comment 119, posted at 22.11.10 19:13:39 by Morné Reply
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  • Ten guys one percent off their game in a fifteen man game can impossibly equate to the team being ten percent off their game..

  • Comment 120, posted at 22.11.10 19:20:28 by bergshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 108) : heheheheheeeee

  • Comment 121, posted at 22.11.10 19:21:06 by klempie Reply

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  • Just saw charl running around the field in his bok training gear.. :-) go charl!!!!

  • Comment 122, posted at 22.11.10 19:22:13 by bergshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 117) : My suggestions might be “generalised” but at least they’re suggestions. :razz:

  • Comment 123, posted at 22.11.10 19:26:06 by klempie Reply

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  • You perfectly right in saying the margin between winning and losing is sometimes very much smaller margins than reflected on the actual stadium scoreboard..

  • Comment 124, posted at 22.11.10 19:27:25 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 120) :

    Really?

    Line-outs missed we would win with our eyes closed?

    Our best defenders falling off tackles or out of position?

    80% of kicks out of hand going no-where when it was our strength a year ago?

    Margins in rugby are extremely small.

    One mistake, can have a 14-point turn-around and given test match average scores between the winning and losing teams from the top 6 teams in the world in 2010 is 9 points, that is one hell of a margin (points) in 80 minutes of rugby where one simple mistake can have that effect

  • Comment 125, posted at 22.11.10 19:28:19 by Morné Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 94) : Appoint whom? Give a person, not a bunch of characteristics – who fits the bill?

    I gave you three candidates who fit the bill. Must I spoonfeed you? :twisted:

  • Comment 126, posted at 22.11.10 19:31:09 by klempie Reply

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  • Game will be re-broadcast @9pm on dstv channel 206..if anyone is interested..

  • Comment 127, posted at 22.11.10 19:32:59 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 127) : I need to catch up on some sleep, so I think I’ll watch it.

  • Comment 128, posted at 22.11.10 19:34:07 by klempie Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 126) :

    I can raise an argument for every single coach you mentioned which will suggest they will fail.

  • Comment 129, posted at 22.11.10 19:38:10 by Morné Reply
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  • Great artical Morne and it was long but read it with much thoght

    I still say their must be SOMEBODY that is better than PDV :smile: to win small comp like the S14 TN and the Lions nt so big as the WC 2011 :mrgreen: and its GOLD what we want and i do really nt think that PDV has the [email protected] to do it i just hope in my heart that our team does good and does nt hurt the name of the WC CHAMPS 2007 :smile:

  • Comment 130, posted at 22.11.10 19:38:39 by chaz Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 2) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 131, posted at 22.11.10 19:39:26 by chaz Reply

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  • @Morne: I agreed with you saying that winning and losing is sometimes much smaller than what is seen on the scoreboard at the end of game..
    But your “ten guys off their game (rugby,which has fifteen guys..or lady guys lol)by one percent means the whole team performance is off by ten percent,cannot be logically correct..

  • Comment 132, posted at 22.11.10 19:39:47 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 3) : do u really think that if we get a new coach like now and the boks get home we hv nt enough time to get a least 1st 2nd or even 3rd in the WC 2011
    i think we might if the team starts working together as a team and do nothing else just practice and practice and leave all the other comp alone and work together to win the WC 2011 most of the SNR playres are still their so let them lead the Jnr Boks and we might just make it ;-)

  • Comment 133, posted at 22.11.10 19:44:09 by chaz Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 117) :
    Ok Rob, but its nothing revolutionary – which is really my point.

    Definitely get Dr Gerrike (mental coach0 back in to sort out the player attitudes and mental preparation.

    Work on the execution of certain key tactical weapons – tactical kicking, rucking and defensive alignment spring to mind.

    Identify and groom the back-up players to our key personnel.

    Maybe a few more – but this is mostly it – understand that the Boks do not need to formulate a new strategy – the problem is the execution of an existing one.

    And I think Morne already mentioned most of what I had to say – hence my not wanting to repeat what I believe is a reasonably clear way forward.

    @Morné (Comment 129) :
    And does anyone of them actually want the job, or are they free to take it?

    @klempie (Comment 126) :
    Baseless speculation. And none of those candidates have expressed interest.

  • Comment 134, posted at 22.11.10 19:46:03 by Big Fish Reply
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  • I yesterday commented that letting diddy (and don’t forget his two aides!!)Go or not,and appointing someone and his extras,will cost sa rugby quite a bit of money..

  • Comment 135, posted at 22.11.10 19:46:40 by bergshark Reply

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  • @klempie (Comment 25) : agree if we can’t win this one lets get a 2nd and 3rd team and work towards the WC 2015 :smile:

  • Comment 136, posted at 22.11.10 19:46:52 by chaz Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 132) :

    Yeah it is a very simplistic view but I think you understood the point I was trying to make.

    I am finishing a braai, must be off till later, cheers.

  • Comment 137, posted at 22.11.10 19:48:12 by Morné Reply
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  • I don’t suspect many changes for the Boks especially to the backline :-(

  • Comment 138, posted at 22.11.10 19:50:17 by Charlie Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 129) : Raise away, but Div is the only one who HAS ACTUALLY failed. No coach is perfect. Do you truly think I believe that?

  • Comment 139, posted at 22.11.10 19:52:45 by klempie Reply

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  • @Morne: enjoy the braai !! ( And it was a good arti,def got everyone excited !!)

  • Comment 140, posted at 22.11.10 19:53:01 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 134) : What’s baseless about it? Those three coaches coached gameplans during the CC that are MOST needed by the Boks right now….successfully!! And none of those three have expressed interest in being a bailout for Div. Offer them a contract til end of 2015 and see if they bite then.

  • Comment 141, posted at 22.11.10 19:56:10 by klempie Reply

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  • i’ve got one Q if the AB can hv like 3 AB teams that can work towards the WC 2011 look what they did in the TN then why can’t we gee is there to little South Africans to make up 3 snr teams :?: that can work together towards a WC of any year :smile:

  • Comment 142, posted at 22.11.10 20:02:37 by chaz Reply

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  • @klempie:well,as a bok coach kitch christie had a flawless record(agreed,he never coached a bok team in nz,but 14 from 14 is pretty good..)..unfortunately,no movie was made about his contribution to boks winning rwc 95 :-( .. Only some factless eastwood directed hollywood movie about the 95 triumph :-( ..ian mac couldve beaten the abs in nz in 94 if tiaan strauss didn’t go for glory in the first,if goalkicking was better in the second,and if japie mulder passed instead of trying to also ,again,go for personal glory :-(

  • Comment 143, posted at 22.11.10 20:02:44 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Charlie (Comment 138) : i think we must start looking for a HC and a BLC :mrgreen:

  • Comment 144, posted at 22.11.10 20:04:23 by chaz Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 143) : I wasn’t really into rugby back then. Guess you could say it was before my time. :razz:

  • Comment 145, posted at 22.11.10 20:05:47 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie: lol oukie bogsnuiter :-)

  • Comment 146, posted at 22.11.10 20:09:39 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Vast gulf between CC and Test rugby, klempster.

  • Comment 147, posted at 22.11.10 20:28:32 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 147) : OK. So you’re saying only coaches with Test experience need apply? Silly, but I’ll play your little game. Mitchell it is then.

  • Comment 148, posted at 22.11.10 20:32:53 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 148) :
    Nope, but I’m saying that the success that you mention was at CC level – and far from being a fair indicator of test rugby success.

  • Comment 149, posted at 22.11.10 20:57:51 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 149) : In other words, only successful coaches at Test level need apply. What’s Eddie up to these days? Come on dude. :roll: When have we ever had a coach appointed that was already a Test coach? :roll:

  • Comment 150, posted at 22.11.10 20:59:26 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 148) :

    Not quite, after the glory of the 2008 Currie Cup under Plum, where did the Sharks end up in the 2009 Super 14?

    A record of 57% if I am not mistaken…

    You can slide down as quickly as you take the step up. One week in rugby is a very long time, imagine what 10 months are…

  • Comment 151, posted at 22.11.10 21:02:05 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 150) :

    Mitchell had a 50% record in the CC this year. You want to appoint him as the national coach?

  • Comment 152, posted at 22.11.10 21:03:16 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 151) : Plum was still benefitting from the DM era. Once he abandoned that style, and got the backs to kick EVERYTHING away, the Sharks went from great to abysmal. Plum’s realised his mistake and the Sharks are playing Sharks rugby again. Happily, Sharks rugby is PERFECT for the new laws.

  • Comment 153, posted at 22.11.10 21:05:03 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 152) : Did you see what he was left with? :|

  • Comment 154, posted at 22.11.10 21:05:47 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 153) :

    Okay, take it further, more than a year into the job, after winning the CC (2008) and slumping in the Super 14 in 2009, what happened in the CC in in 2009?

    Embarrassing loss to the Cheetahs in the semi? (and please let us not forget Plum has been part of this Shark setup for a long time prior to 2008 when he took over).

    Then almost 2 and 1/2 years into the job, came the Super 14 in 2010 – what happened there (we can easily go an revisit some of the comments from back then).

    So what gives you any idea things will be different next year?

    As for Mitchell…

    What he was left with?

    How many years has he now coached the Force?

    And what was PDV ‘left with’ for the EOYT? Do you want me to list all the players out and/or injured? Since when is that an excuse? Or why is it only an excuse for one but not the other?

    Seems to me the goalposts are shifted depending who is discussed at any given point.

  • Comment 155, posted at 22.11.10 21:18:24 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morne: definetely! Ten monthd left..if (and this is a big IF)we use the time right,we are in with a chance..a big chance!there are some absolute bok legends in this team..and one or two at home..talent-wise we shouldn’t feel inferior to ANY team ANY stadium. It is all about the work done in the back-office,the war room ..planning must be perfect..(Do we have the planners,the most capable generals in the war room..?)

  • Comment 156, posted at 22.11.10 21:19:01 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 155) : Dude whatever man. Whatever I suggest you will simply not agree with. Your position is clear. PDiv of niks.

  • Comment 157, posted at 22.11.10 21:20:38 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • Also, you might want to hang on to that perception that the Sharks game is perfect for the new laws until they play quality international teams whose games also seem ‘prefect’ for the new laws.

  • Comment 158, posted at 22.11.10 21:21:27 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 156) :

    At the moment, no.

    But as I said, nothing that cannot be corrected.

    It was done in 2006 leading up to 2007 – no reason it cannot be done now.
    @klempie (Comment 157) :

    Serious?

    PDV of niks?

    No dude.

    It is simple, for every argument leveled against PDV right now, another argument can be raised.

    Given the ratio of arguments raised against him, I reckon I am in the minority actually.

    But I read and listen intently, I just choose to offer something more than doom and gloom.

    And for the record, I still find it kak funny how I ‘back’ PDV, where what I back, from where I sit, is rugby and trying to apply simple rugby logic.

    Mind you, in 2006 I was accused of the same shit – where I ‘blindly backed Jake White’.

  • Comment 159, posted at 22.11.10 21:25:33 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 155) : Also, if your argument is that CC coaching credentials should be the benchmark AGAINST appointing one of the three, then how do you explain Snor’s appointment? Surely a bad CC record (according to you) is better than none at all? :|

  • Comment 160, posted at 22.11.10 21:26:01 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 159) : It’s interesting cos I was one of the “blind” backers of Jake too. :razz:

  • Comment 161, posted at 22.11.10 21:26:55 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • But enough from me.

    Have a good night gents, we can rip this apart again tomorrow (especially after the team gets announced).

    Have a good one all.

  • Comment 162, posted at 22.11.10 21:27:37 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • First choice players not there..j fourie (big loss,stuffs up our centre combo big time..perhaps better generals would have made better decisions in the planning after that happened)
    Fdp..a BIG loss..
    Schalk burger ..uhm,maybe 3 less pen per game AGAINST bokke ..
    Heinrich brussow..seems there some critics who doubt his style of play under new laws ..therefore,unknown quantity(personally I think he is an even greater loss than fdp)
    Andries bekker..def big loss..
    Danie rossouw..don’t know really,had fab s14..always proved himself in nh conditions though..on the balance of that..big loss..
    Wynand olivier..great @s14 level and cc ..not yet made the same impact @ test level..
    Juan de jongh.. Big loss..

  • Comment 163, posted at 22.11.10 21:31:56 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @klempie (Comment 161) :

    Well at least we share something tonight! :lol:

    My parting shot…

    You know when people ask me how I can continue to ‘support’ a team or coach, I have one simple answer.

    I might not know any of them (coaches or players) personally, but I do know one thing, not one coach, or player, I have ever met in my life, goes out there to lose. They try their best, and yes sometimes their best is not good enough, but just the fact that they are trying to do their best, leaves me with no option but to support them – because unlike some lazy shits out there in the world, at least they are trying.

    Ciao gents.

  • Comment 164, posted at 22.11.10 21:32:22 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 164) : Later.

  • Comment 165, posted at 22.11.10 21:33:32 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • That is their work.. If he does my work after hours (like I’m trying to do his lol ;-) ),I will say he is a hard worker and not a lazy 9-5 bum,just there for the monthly pay cheque..all tongue-in-cheek lol

  • Comment 166, posted at 22.11.10 21:42:01 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Stick with the coach ..Get rid of Gary and Muir pronto !

  • Comment 167, posted at 23.11.10 08:40:18 by CSB Aplon's Biggest Fan ! Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     

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