Richard Ferguson

Player ratings: Boks v Scotland


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 23 Nov 2010 at 08:30
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I was tempted to give every single player a 2/10, but I thought that it was too easy and would be giving some players too high a rating.

Zane Kirchner
Was okay at the back but spilled a few high balls. But that’s about it, he never really got involved in any other phase. Oh wait, he kicked the bloody ball into Scotland’s hands – 4/10

Gio Aplon
Chased aimless kicks all evening and one can almost say that it is useless to rate a player who got no chance to play at all – 4/10

Frans Steyn
Knocked on, missed his kick at goal and was generally useless. He does deserve something for his defence though – 4/10

Jean de Villiers
Definitely his worst game of the tour so far. Was poor on the day and gave away penalties for his rush defence. Will have to play as he is the only inside centre in the tour group – 4/10

Lwazi Mvovo
Was caught out of position on more than one occasion, and just didn’t look the part in the first half. His defence did earn him another chance – 4/10

Morne Steyn
Kak – 3/10

Francois Hougaard
Has to be my player of the match for the Springboks. He had a quick pass, was a pain in the arse to his opposite number and was defensively good. Oh yes, and he held onto the ball – 6/10

Ryan Kankowski
He had a good run from a little kick he collected, but isolated himself and lost the ball. I am still unsure whether he was on the field in the second half – 4/10

Juan Smith
Stood out with a good hard graft game, the Springboks cannot afford to start a game without this man – 5/10

Deon Stegmann
Was nowhere to be seen in the 45 minutes he was on. It amazes me how he can hold his spot above the man called Keegan – 3/10

Victor Matfield
His main job was to dominate in the lineouts, and he failed miserably doing that. His captaincy was shown up in the last minutes of the game – 3/10

Bakkies Botha
Bakkies is enjoying an extended run without suspension and is making it count. Disappointing in the lineouts, but good on defence – 4/10

Jannie du Plessis
Jannie needs a break! He looked very tired and conceded too many penalties – 2/10

Bismarck du Plessis
A solid game from the big hooker. He was busy as always with ball in hand, but conceded a few penalties. Looked impressive at the breakdown – 5/10

Beast Mtawarira
Couldn’t really dominate his opposite number, but otherwise didn’t do anything wrong. Quiet game from the Beast – 4/10

Replacement worth rating:

Willem Alberts
One man cannot win the game for the Boks, even though this man tried! Good try but it wasn’t enough on the day – 5/10

Ruan Pienaar
STOP… KICKING… THE… FLIPPEN… BALL!!!! – 1/10

Pat Lambie
Great big talent but will have to work on his kicking. Did not get get much in the form of that white thing called a ball, seeing as Ruan was so keen to give it to the Scots – 4/10

All the other replacements were on for 10 or less minutes.



134 Comments

  • Jeez Richard…you being tough on the players.

    3 ratings I totally disagree with.

    Hougaard probably kicked away as much posession as Ruan. 4 at most

    Ryan had a pretty good game and was a lot more involved in the hard graft than usual. That’s probably why you didn’t see him. At least 5 or 6

    Morne Steyn. Calling an oke kak when he scored 13 points is a bit unfair…at least a 4

  • Comment 1, posted at 23.11.10 08:43:50 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I was really pissed of when I saw the Rapport newspaper. The idiot that did the ratings gave Stegman a 6 which was joint highest of all the Boks and said he was replaced too early and had a real impact. :evil:

  • Comment 2, posted at 23.11.10 08:45:52 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I’ll give all of them a ’0′ except for Lambie and Alberts who deserves a bit more. :evil: Worst Bok performance I have seen in my life.

  • Comment 3, posted at 23.11.10 08:50:11 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 1) : I agree with you about Hougie and Ryan, but Morne can’t get points for just putting over penalties anymore. His overall game was really bad. I do however agree that you should not call a player kak, there is better words in the English vocabulary without having to use foul language…or is that the Afrikaans vocabulary? ;-)

  • Comment 4, posted at 23.11.10 08:54:17 by Letgo Reply
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  • I wouldn’t rate any of the players that low, they were executing a gameplan. Start counting the actual errors they made, then you’ll realise it has more to do with what they were told to do as a team, than what they did as individuals. In the last 20min some bad errors came creeping in, but desperation can to that to a team.

  • Comment 5, posted at 23.11.10 08:56:52 by Letgo Reply
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  • Agree with Pokkel about Hougaard, replaced a crap scrumhalf performance with another crap one. Hougaard employed nearly the same gameplan as Ruan, just that he’s a better defender around the rucks.

    Can’t get over how Kanko ran away from the TWO supporter he had on his left to “gloryboy” down the middle.

  • Comment 6, posted at 23.11.10 08:58:08 by molly Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 4) : Strond, bollie, poof, no2 :wink:

  • Comment 7, posted at 23.11.10 08:58:13 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 5) : They were executing the gameplan VERY poorly. They deserve terrible ratings, it was painful to watch.

  • Comment 8, posted at 23.11.10 08:59:21 by molly Reply
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  • Rich, don’t know how you got Hougaard above anything but a 3.

    He was piss-poor.

  • Comment 9, posted at 23.11.10 09:00:05 by Morné Reply
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  • Bismark should lose at least a point for his lineouts. He almost lost us one on their 5m if it hadn’t been for some SERIOUS skill from Alberts to catch that ball and manage to get over, they would have cleared and we would’ve been even more embarrassed.

  • Comment 10, posted at 23.11.10 09:00:35 by molly Reply
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  • Let see, Kirchner I would give a bad rating, because he got the most opportunities of all the backline players and never did anything with it. In fact the only time the ball went wide and we got over the advantage line with our backs he decided to kick the ball away. Lwazi was there for the inside pass. Had Krusty made that pass, Mvovo would have had enough space to get in close, or offload to the many players coming in for support over his right shoulder. This coupled with the fact that he kicked to many useless kicks from the back will get him a 2 in my book. And dropped out of my team, not just because of this game, because he should not have been there in the first place.

  • Comment 11, posted at 23.11.10 09:00:38 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Jarson (AddicteD) (Comment 7) : :lol:

  • Comment 12, posted at 23.11.10 09:01:49 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 1) :

    Hougaard was sniping and even stole a ball from a scrum and kicked 4 times in his 50 minutes

    Pienaar kicked 6 times in 30 minutes, while we were trying to hold on to the ball and win the game.

    I did not see Ryan doing anything useful in the second half of the game, so if it was rucking and doing he hard graft, then I agree, but we all know Kanko doesnt like doing that work and most likely sitting on the wing.

  • Comment 13, posted at 23.11.10 09:01:51 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 11) : If Mvovo had stayed on the outside he might’ve been able to get to the ball first. Mvovo was in no man’s land when Kirch had broken the line. You have to look from every angle, not just the one that benefits the Sharks.

  • Comment 14, posted at 23.11.10 09:04:38 by molly Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 13) :

    Ryan was great for the first 15 minutes of the game, he must have put a scrumcap on after that cause I did not recognise him or see him for the rest of the game.

  • Comment 15, posted at 23.11.10 09:05:00 by Morné Reply
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  • I will put the same effort into rating the players as they put into playing! Hence no rating from me. Definitely the worst I have ever seen The Boks play. They looked clueless and that is putting it politely.

  • Comment 16, posted at 23.11.10 09:05:42 by Grey Shark Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 11) : Not one single player kicked un-aimlessly, but ja, lets rate Kirchner lower than everyone else for it.

  • Comment 17, posted at 23.11.10 09:06:23 by molly Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 5) :

    They lost against Scotland?! How high do you want to rate them then?

    How would you rate the Sharks should they lose to the Leopards?

    Gameplan aside, they should adapt to what is in front of them. They cannot just play to plan that doesnt work.

  • Comment 18, posted at 23.11.10 09:06:55 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 14) :

    I have to agree wih you Molly..

    Mvovo never looked like he knew where to be.. He was very anxious and got caught seriously lost when Scotland put that kick in..

  • Comment 19, posted at 23.11.10 09:08:36 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 18) :

    Pretty similar to how you guys rated the Sharks when they lost to Griquas… :twisted:

  • Comment 20, posted at 23.11.10 09:09:03 by Morné Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 6) :

    Kanko is one of those players who can’t seem to do wrong in the eyes of the Sharks faithful. :twisted:

    He did the very same thing on more than one occasion during the S14.
    When he broke the line, instead of passing or looking for a team mate he tried to have a go at the try line only to lose possession!! :roll:

    He is not a team player imho.

  • Comment 21, posted at 23.11.10 09:09:31 by wpw Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 13) : Ryan has changed in that respect IMO…remember the CC semi’s and final?

  • Comment 22, posted at 23.11.10 09:09:48 by Pokkel Reply
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  • “None of the other replacements were on for more than 10 minutes.”

    That is more than enough time to rate them as none of the players played for more than ten minutes! The rest of the time they were just there to make up numbers.

  • Comment 23, posted at 23.11.10 09:10:14 by Grey Shark Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 19) :

    What did I say last week about wanting to drop Habs (before his injury) and playing an untried and new combination in the back three who shared 20 test caps between them?

  • Comment 24, posted at 23.11.10 09:10:43 by Morné Reply
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  • Also, for every good thing Mvovo did, he turned the ball over twice (I think) after getting over the advantage line. Someone needs to teach him how to hold onto the ball in the tackle. He has the talent, just need to smooth over the rough areas.

  • Comment 25, posted at 23.11.10 09:12:07 by molly Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 21) : What is he suppose to do? Run back towards his own(slow) supporting players? He backed himself and has scored many tries that way!

  • Comment 26, posted at 23.11.10 09:12:41 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 24) :

    Good point dude.. And that is how we learn.. Hopefully.

  • Comment 27, posted at 23.11.10 09:13:10 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • bring on Ricky – he does not know how to kick so we will have this problem solved :twisted:

  • Comment 28, posted at 23.11.10 09:13:11 by rekinek Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 21) : Go back to wpworld if you don’t like it! :twisted: ;-)

  • Comment 29, posted at 23.11.10 09:13:24 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 8) : What? The suicide mission they were sent on. They executed that perfectly. Kick possession away as much as possible. Do not send the ball to the backs.

    How can the whole team just suddenly be useless. These are all great players and on the day they looked completely out of their league? So if we turn this around and win against England, it will just be the players who turned their game around? That doesn’t make any sense. What went wrong was that they went into the game without a clear idea of what will win them the game.

    Our captain got frustrated instead of pulling his players together he started falling apart and his players followed. After that we couldn’t put together more than 2 phases of play before getting penalized. I don’t agree with all the refs calls, but Matfield needed to get his team to play to the ref. What ever that meant on the day, he needed to be the one to get his players on the right side of the ref, Scotland would not have been able to win if we could simply have kept the penalties to a minimum.

    And maybe if our guys got to the breakdown faster and in more numbers it would have been harder for the ref to penalize us. It’s not the players who suddenly decide we’re not going to clean out the rucks anymore. This is how they were asked to play. You can’t look at the whole pack and say, well they didn’t clean out the rucks good enough so they were bad. Clearly if all of them were doing the same thing, then that’s how they practiced it for the game.

    So the game plan in my view gets 1, the ref gets 0 and the players gets rated as good as they can get rated with what they were given from their coach.

  • Comment 30, posted at 23.11.10 09:14:07 by Letgo Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 25) : @Richard Ferguson (Comment 27) :

    Mvov’s is a superstar. I have not been as excited about a backline player since…

    Well since…

    I have never been this excited about a backline player.

    With a bit more streetsmarts this guy will become the best wing in the world.

  • Comment 31, posted at 23.11.10 09:14:44 by Morné Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 26) :

    He could of tried something like a chip or something.

    You will never see a New Zealand player running away from his support!!

  • Comment 32, posted at 23.11.10 09:14:44 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 31) :

    I think the Super 15 will do him well.

  • Comment 33, posted at 23.11.10 09:15:32 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • I think Rich you overpriced Hougaard. He was not good, actually quite shocking. Same Lambie, who really did nothing in this game except missing penalty. I know they are both talented young players but this is supposed to be rating for this one game.

    I though Bismarck was Ok and Alberts also tried to do something.

  • Comment 34, posted at 23.11.10 09:16:26 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 32) :

    You know my theory about this…

    The guy with the ball in hand never runs away from his support.

    The support runners run away from him.

    It is the support runner’s duty to support the ball carrier, not the other way around.

    Any player getting isolated, is the fault of his support players.

  • Comment 35, posted at 23.11.10 09:16:27 by Morné Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 32) : And kick good possesion away AGAIN(imagine his rating if that didn’t work)..he was right to hold on hoping that his support will get there in time IMO

  • Comment 36, posted at 23.11.10 09:18:24 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 21) : isn’t support suppose to come. It is same with chasing the kick. Kicker always get the blame but itç chaser that are sloppy most of the time.

    I thought Kanko was ok on saturday but the rest of the team set really low standard.

  • Comment 37, posted at 23.11.10 09:18:39 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 35) : amen

  • Comment 38, posted at 23.11.10 09:19:11 by rekinek Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 8) : There was no game plan to execute! Victor Matfield should get a minus for failing as the Captain to arrest the diabloical mess and putt in place a game plan once they were on the field. “I am the Boss” P Devil can’t do anything whilst they are on the field. :twisted:

  • Comment 39, posted at 23.11.10 09:19:23 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 35) : Thanks for that. At last we agree on something again ;-)

  • Comment 40, posted at 23.11.10 09:19:23 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 39) : There I agree completely. That last decision at 77 minutes was just diabolical.

  • Comment 41, posted at 23.11.10 09:20:50 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 21) : Sadly I agree, but only a little bit :mrgreen:

  • Comment 42, posted at 23.11.10 09:21:03 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 39) : matfield should get minus for getting irritated at the ref. The only time I like him doing that is when Bulls play Sharks :twisted:

  • Comment 43, posted at 23.11.10 09:21:27 by rekinek Reply
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  • This weekend I have a choice. Watch the Boks or paint the kitchen. At the moment watching the paint dry will probably be the more exciting of the two. But being a Bok supporter I will be there shouting my support at the tv. I support through good times and bad. How i long for the good.

  • Comment 44, posted at 23.11.10 09:21:40 by Grey Shark Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 32) : No…it’s the other way round – NZ players know how to support the ball carrier.

  • Comment 45, posted at 23.11.10 09:22:12 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Grey Shark (Comment 44) :

    Boks will win.

  • Comment 46, posted at 23.11.10 09:23:09 by Morné Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 21) : Kanko can only off load if there is somebody to offload too

  • Comment 47, posted at 23.11.10 09:23:43 by Pokkel Reply
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  • The way the All Blacks, Aussies and Welsh used their backs to run it up everytime we kicked those up and unders, I fear the worse. Fiji are gna polverise us at the RWC next year if we use the same tactic.

  • Comment 48, posted at 23.11.10 09:24:42 by Mocho Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 46) : Oh come on Morne…you know your track record…the Boks have just been jinxed :lol:

  • Comment 49, posted at 23.11.10 09:24:49 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 24) : Habana didn’t do any better and it’s not like Mvovo got many chances in this game. @molly (Comment 17) : Kirchner’s running line didn’t really allow Mvovo to stay on the outside. When you run an angle usually the wing cuts inside. Anyway I looked at it from all the angles the TV gave me and as far as I could see, if the inside pass was made Mvovo would have been in space, as all the defense followed Kirchner.

    I’m getting pretty annoyed with everyone just saying I look at everything from a Sharks perspective. I just wanted the damn pass to be made, irrespective of the player on his inside. Surely it would have had a better result than kicking the ball away did.

  • Comment 50, posted at 23.11.10 09:25:04 by Letgo Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 43) : :lol: :lol: ..me too. And it’s not like we didnt know that Dick-enson was going to ref like that. He is a habitual offender when it comes to the Boks….we have lost the last five games he has reffed us…The Boks should have been better prepared!

  • Comment 51, posted at 23.11.10 09:25:21 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 46) : you know that some people on this side consider you a jinxer ;-)

  • Comment 52, posted at 23.11.10 09:25:49 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 46) : No they wont :smile:

  • Comment 53, posted at 23.11.10 09:26:09 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • @Mocho (Comment 48) :

    The All Blacks are using an age-old strategy, a technique used in the 60′s already (the more things change hey), called the diamond technique when supporting ball carriers or players going into contact.

    And the secret is that it is not a designated role but the job of every single player, wing or lock, to employ this technique if they are the first players at the breakdown – just notice how many of our players are ‘running away’ from rucks to form defensive or attacking lines…

    Dof.

  • Comment 54, posted at 23.11.10 09:27:23 by Morné Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 49) :

    Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

    @Letgo (Comment 50) :

    I am not talking about his attacking play, I am specifically referring to his positional play, which directly affects his work rate.

  • Comment 55, posted at 23.11.10 09:28:40 by Morné Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 50) : mvowo was very unlucky to get to showcase his talent at the very shaky platform laid down by his new teammates. That’s all. He should not be judged by this performance alone and hopefully will get more chances. Though for England I’d rather see Odd-one as a starter.

  • Comment 56, posted at 23.11.10 09:28:46 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 46) : I also think the Boks will win purely because a hurt Bok team usually comes back stronger but I’m too afraid to say it out loud.

  • Comment 57, posted at 23.11.10 09:29:12 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 50) : Don tlet “them” irrate you….they are just bitter because “their” boytjies didn’t perform.

  • Comment 58, posted at 23.11.10 09:29:41 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 51) : if I was a Bok strategists I would factor at least 9 points against us for the reffing for each game.

  • Comment 59, posted at 23.11.10 09:31:13 by rekinek Reply
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  • Sharksworld should consider asking 5 or 6 people to do player ratings and then report on the average score. One person cannot be expected to spot everything?

  • Comment 60, posted at 23.11.10 09:34:10 by vanmartin Reply
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  • I also though Kanko had a good game, not like that means anything, because I’m just rating him as a Shark right! :roll:

    @Morné (Comment 35) : Anyway, I think it goes both ways Morne, you have to be aware of where you support runners are and in this case I felt like Kanko isolated himself from the players on his left by going right.

    The backline had been standing deep the whole game, so he should have known that there was no way that they would get there in time for an ofload.

    The best thing would have been if he had gone left and found Juan smith in support. Or otherwise if he felt there was more space on the right, go right, but give some time for your support players to arrive.

    Also the tackler never gave him a chance to place the ball. So the penalty should have gone our way.

    The reason I would have given Kanko a good rating was, that he always made good meters when he did carry the ball, but that wasn’t alot, because mostly possession was given away. He was involved in the defense and rucks a lot. He had a solid game and stood out for me even when the team looked clueless. I would give him more than 6, but just because the game didn’t allow him to do much more than a 6.

  • Comment 61, posted at 23.11.10 09:34:13 by Letgo Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 59) : Absolutely.

  • Comment 62, posted at 23.11.10 09:36:05 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 57) : So they weren’t hurting during the Tri Nations? :wink:

  • Comment 63, posted at 23.11.10 09:36:28 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • Daniel is currently playing better than Kanko :twisted:

  • Comment 64, posted at 23.11.10 09:39:40 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 55) : Was he given much chance to be in the right position. Did the ball even go wide more than 5 times?

    I do agree that this is a part of his game that needs some work, but in this game I thought a few passes should have gone to him when they didn’t. I also get that maybe some of these passes weren’t made because Mvovo didn’t run into the right space, but that could also have something to do with communication and understanding between new combinations. I would definitely start him again for the next two games. Because if he does find himself in the right space he is dangerous.

  • Comment 65, posted at 23.11.10 09:40:14 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Jarson (AddicteD) (Comment 63) : but England is not exactly All Blacks or Aussies – or wait they beat Aussies :shock:

  • Comment 66, posted at 23.11.10 09:40:15 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Jarson (AddicteD) (Comment 63) : They were but the opposition were too strong. England isn’t that great IMO…they definately not the AB’s and I think they might go into this game expecting to win and an overconfident English side have often lost.

  • Comment 67, posted at 23.11.10 09:40:47 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Jarson (AddicteD) (Comment 64) : How would you know??

  • Comment 68, posted at 23.11.10 09:41:27 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @rekinek (Comment 56) : I don’t think this one should count against him. It’s not like anyone else did any better.

  • Comment 69, posted at 23.11.10 09:41:46 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 35) : I don’t know Morne, alot of the time when a NZ/Aussie breaks the line, they’ll slow down a little and look for support, or run towards the support. That Irish guy got berated when he broke the line and decided to go for Aplon instead of looking for the pass.
    We all know how fast Kanko is, and he had 2 people on his left, that I could see and none on his right, surely looking to link up with the players nearest you is the best option? How do you support a player who does the opposite of what is the best option?

  • Comment 70, posted at 23.11.10 09:42:59 by molly Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 69) : Looking at the stats Mvovo put a lot of defensive work in

  • Comment 71, posted at 23.11.10 09:43:08 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 54) : Now see, there’s what a call a good plan. If the Boks were given this and still did not clean out properly then I would have blamed the players.

    They weren’t given the same kind of orders, clearly, because players arrived at the ruck on by one and very late. That’s asking for a penalty, especially from a ref like Dickinson!

  • Comment 72, posted at 23.11.10 09:45:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 39) : The gameplan seemed to be the one we’ve played for years, kick up and unders, put pressure on the receiver with good chasing, get a. turnover or b. penalty. It worked for us a few times. Now we seem to a. kick poorly or b. chase even worse.

    Also teams have adapted, I didn’t say it was a good gameplan, but we certainly didn’t execute well. Kicks were either too far or our chases were poor or our first up tackling was diabolical.

  • Comment 73, posted at 23.11.10 09:45:36 by molly Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 68) : The little guy on my shoulder whispered it to me :mrgreen: They are very similar type players but imo Keegan works just that little bit harder.

  • Comment 74, posted at 23.11.10 09:48:04 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 70) : I agree with you on this one. as I said in comment 61, it goes both ways. The supportive players can only do that much from where they are on the field. Kanko should have done more to link up with some kind of support.

    It is disappointing, that none of the backs saw this little kick coming though, because then they would have chased Kanko for support much faster, but since our backline were on the back foot the whole game, Ryan should have known to stay with the support he has on his left.

  • Comment 75, posted at 23.11.10 09:49:05 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 50) : I disagree, Kirchner at first rounded the one defender and then straightened immediately, leaving lots of space on the outside for Mvovo, Habana would have backed his pace to chase the kick down, Aplon as well. I’m not 100% sure but I think Mvovo moved just as Kirchner kicked. Also the kick was nearly perfectly weighted, the FB did bloody well waiting for it to go over the line, but Kirchner was ALSO right there, and no one rates his pace, so imagine if Mvovo had chased it. Could have been a try, a 5m lineout to us or a 5m scrum if we’d put a little more pressure on there.

  • Comment 76, posted at 23.11.10 09:49:46 by molly Reply
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  • I can’t believe you guys are down on lwazi after a superb defensive performance. Do you guys not remember how many tries we’ve leaked down that side of the field with Habana there?

  • Comment 77, posted at 23.11.10 09:50:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 65) :

    The way to judge a player is to look at what he does off the ball, not on it.

  • Comment 78, posted at 23.11.10 09:51:26 by Morné Reply
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  • Well that’s me in anycase.

  • Comment 79, posted at 23.11.10 09:51:51 by Morné Reply
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  • I just want to clear something up, I’m not saying Kirchner is a brilliant player, he’s solid and just a little above average. But everywhere he gets a raw deal because no one likes him and he seems to do nothing right in anyone’s eyes. I’m playing a little bit of a devil’s advocate, he does sometimes deserve a little credit, but some people would rather die than give him any plaudits.

  • Comment 80, posted at 23.11.10 09:51:52 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 73) : Yeah, your right, I guess the kicks weren’t always that great, but four years ago those kicks would have worked. We did have a few pretty good one, but the game has changed and teams has adapted. Even when you execute this gameplan well, it doesn’t work any more. It’s harder to get possession away from a team nowadays, so when you kick. Al your doing is putting yourself back on defense.

    I think maybe the kicks has become worse, since the players know that kicking the ball won’t do much for attack. I just wish someone took the initiative to start running the ball.

  • Comment 81, posted at 23.11.10 09:53:20 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 77) :

    His defence was great, but otherwise he was generally average Rob. Okay he got a rough deal, I agree, but he was out of position quite a few times.

  • Comment 82, posted at 23.11.10 09:54:11 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Zane is lucky to get a 4
    FH-useless
    Morne Steyn-can just kick

  • Comment 83, posted at 23.11.10 09:54:31 by Honey Badger Reply

    Honey BadgerCurrie Cup player
     
  • @molly (Comment 76) : I’m convinced Mvovo would have been tackled out if he received the ball on the outside. How could he have know in which direction Kirchner would kick? Unfair blaming Mvovo for that one except maybe for a lack of communication.

  • Comment 84, posted at 23.11.10 09:56:34 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 77) : Lwazi was caught out of position so many times because he looked to get some ball and zane did not help his cause.
    I agree with you.

  • Comment 85, posted at 23.11.10 09:56:44 by Honey Badger Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 76) : In this case Kirchner should have hung on to the ball. There was no space on the left and two Scots had the line covered. Mvovo moved into space and was there for the pass when Kirchner kicked it away… Not even Habana would have chased that ball down. The 15 was standing deep and would always have covered that kick quite easily. It was not the right option.
    @molly (Comment 80) : And no one ever said they don’t like Kirchner. Or I have never said it. I thought he did a decent job at 13 (more decent that Frans Steyn is currently doing) and gave him credit for that. I have nothing against him, I just don’t think he’s good enough to be wearing the bok jersey and unfortunately he hasn’t proven me wrong yet.

  • Comment 86, posted at 23.11.10 10:00:35 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 86) : I need to watch that clip again, seems I’ve got it all wrong, but I think the inside of Kirch was covered as well, wasn’t it?
    The FB might have been in a good position, but with a good chase the ball wouldn’t have rolled over the line, he would either have had to have taken it back, or kicked it out, at least thats how I saw it. It was a very well weighted kick, just a tiny bit too far. But considering Zane was on top of him when he dotted down, and we don’t rate his pace. If Mvovo had chased it down it would’ve been very difficult for the FB.

    With regards to your second comment, I didn’t see what you said, but most of the comments after his centre appearance was that he was the reason for one of the Irish tries. And he only did one thing, and it was the wrong thing. He has been very good for the Bulls, and he’s not horrible for the Boks, just not great either. Based on his S14 performances in the past I can see why he got picked.
    That comment wasn’t aimed at you, it was just in general.

  • Comment 87, posted at 23.11.10 10:04:51 by molly Reply
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  • @HoneyBadger: read rampage won the fight but machida can feel aggrieved @ result..you managed to youtube some of the action?
    How much will you give the coach and his two aides?

  • Comment 88, posted at 23.11.10 10:06:55 by bergshark Reply

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  • @rekinek (Comment 28) : At least Ricky have a sense that posession is crucial in rugby :evil:

  • Comment 89, posted at 23.11.10 10:08:46 by Charlie Reply

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  • @molly: we need cameras that provide the “eagle eye view”at all superrugby stadiums..this will help players and coaches get a better feel and understanding of space and running lines/support lines..
    Only way to know if there was or wasn’t sufficient space inside for mvovo,would be to see an eagle eye view of the play in question..

  • Comment 90, posted at 23.11.10 10:12:09 by bergshark Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 87) : Kirchner is a solid player and has been known to take the up and under option 90% of the time. So the selectors know what they will get from him. It’s not something I would have wanted, but clearly this was where they were going.

    You can’t really blame the player for those kicks from the back. So really his only really bad error was not passing to Mvovo that time and that was after he made the only linebreak for the Boks. We’re being pretty harsh I guess, but it’s because one pass could have been a try here. If he had not made that mistake I would have given him 4 or 5 with the rest of the players.

    And he did cause a try in the first game. A player that’s selected because he’s solid can’t make mistakes like that.

  • Comment 91, posted at 23.11.10 10:12:16 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Charlie (Comment 89) : Yes if its a cheese burger…

  • Comment 92, posted at 23.11.10 10:12:59 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • P div has gone mad why doesn,t he put F.Steyn at 12 an JDV ,steyn doesn,t have the feet speed for 13 ,his a good 12 maybe better then JDV.JDV has played 13 well b4 .Surely Lambie is a better fullback option than kirchner and why is frans louw not on tour and you need to start Alberts at 8 in the NH .PDV is losing on purpose he must be ,he can,t be this stupid

  • Comment 93, posted at 23.11.10 10:13:03 by zvision10 Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 86) : I will put up my hand and admit that I don’t like Kirchner. Not as a person – I’m sure he’s a great guy – but as a rugby player.

  • Comment 94, posted at 23.11.10 10:13:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 90) : Eagle eye would help, but the angle I got was sufficient to see Mvovo on the inside with no defense in front of him and players on his inside for more support.

  • Comment 95, posted at 23.11.10 10:14:01 by Letgo Reply
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  • We need to fall back in greater numbers so that we can counter-attack initial opp def line with overlaps..fitness,fitness,fitness,and reading the play..

  • Comment 96, posted at 23.11.10 10:15:39 by bergshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 94) : Is it because he plays for the Bulls? I try my best to leave provincial colors behind when the Boks play.

    I’ve never minded Krusty. I just don’t like it when players get selected when they’re not good enough, and more specifically when we have other players who will do a better job. That makes me mad. :evil:

  • Comment 97, posted at 23.11.10 10:16:34 by Letgo Reply
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  • @zvision10 (Comment 93) : He could even play Lambie at 12 JDv at 13 and Frans at 15

  • Comment 98, posted at 23.11.10 10:19:33 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 98) :

    Please pick Lambie at 12 …that’s the way forward will have SBW shaking in his boots ! :lol:

  • Comment 99, posted at 23.11.10 10:21:41 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • The abs almost always seem to have that diamond shape in attavk..ballcarrier with support inside and outside and player running behind.. they also move at pace and head for space in this shape..(Okay perhaps not always..) Creates confusion in opp def.. We seem to labour on attack or just move the ball diagonally across field into contact..

  • Comment 100, posted at 23.11.10 10:23:10 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 100) :

    There is not much between the way all the teams are currently playing…..the boks just seem to be focussed on a different style of play.

    Good luck to them …they may have the last laugh…..on a cold wet windy RWC semi final

  • Comment 101, posted at 23.11.10 10:25:46 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • Sbw who?? .. ?? .. Oh that hype .. Hahhahaahhaa!!

  • Comment 102, posted at 23.11.10 10:27:47 by bergshark Reply

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  • Beating the abs in the semi will be even better than doing it in the final..

  • Comment 103, posted at 23.11.10 10:29:51 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Hertford Highlander (Comment 99) : Have you watched any cricket lately :wink:

  • Comment 104, posted at 23.11.10 10:30:47 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • Morning guys. Feel kirchner was the best actually ,i wouldnt mind seeing him at 13 again(saying that he is not that talented and all he can offer are spirited perfromances, i wonder why he is on tour)…the worst where our forwards ,that pack looked apathetic and should have won the game for us . The only guys who looked like they tried where juan smith and bismarc and their execution was poor. I would have been tempted to give the whole forward pack a 1 ,they should have ground those scots into the ground ,and if this game was of more importance they would have …

    At the moment our backs are hopeless ,not worth mentioning ,i feel sorry for jdv and frans steyn …they only two who should go to the world cup out of the incumbent backline, yet they have been awful

  • Comment 105, posted at 23.11.10 10:36:50 by baw Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 98) : I like that backline. Well, more than the one Pdiv will select!

  • Comment 106, posted at 23.11.10 10:37:06 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 97) : it might be :)

    You see, I have never pretended to be unbiased

  • Comment 107, posted at 23.11.10 10:37:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • @baw (Comment 105) : I’ll give Kirchner this much – I’d rather see him at 13 than Fransie “mini-Snor” Steyn

  • Comment 108, posted at 23.11.10 10:38:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 108) : How’s your mo doing?? Send pictures :grin:

  • Comment 109, posted at 23.11.10 10:47:01 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I think that one tackle from Frans Snor Verstaan was worth at least one point on its own!! Give that man a five! :twisted:

    Hougaard was tjit!

    And I agree with Morne – I am very excited for the future of Lwaxi ‘superstar” Mvovo! :lol:

  • Comment 110, posted at 23.11.10 10:52:21 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 109) :

    I had to shave mine – was starting to irritate the living daylights our of me! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 111, posted at 23.11.10 10:52:56 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 109) : I’m afraid I caved. IT was going nowhere… had no appreciable growth after 3 weeks, so decided to cut my losses.

    Will get fully behind “beardvember” next year

  • Comment 112, posted at 23.11.10 10:54:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 112) :

    Was it a case of Rob ‘mini-snor” Dylan?? :lol: :twisted:

  • Comment 113, posted at 23.11.10 10:55:47 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 108) : Yes frans at 13 is disgusting need him at 12 or 15

  • Comment 114, posted at 23.11.10 10:55:51 by baw Reply

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  • I’m actually with Rich on Hougaard. I thought he was far from the worst of the Bok backs – and that’s saying something

  • Comment 115, posted at 23.11.10 10:56:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Jarson (AddicteD) (Comment 104) : :lol:

  • Comment 116, posted at 23.11.10 10:57:08 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @baw (Comment 114) : I think we need him to get fit and improve his form before we pick him anywhere, TBH…

  • Comment 117, posted at 23.11.10 10:57:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 103) : ;-)

  • Comment 118, posted at 23.11.10 10:57:51 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 113) : more like “no-snor”

  • Comment 119, posted at 23.11.10 10:57:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 80) : It’s not because no one likes Kirchner that he gets a raw deal. It is because he is not good enough to be there that he gets a raw deal. It’s not the players fault, he doesn’t select himself. People are overly harsh on him, myself included. There are better fullbacks who have been on holiday in SA. I would have rather seen them on tour rather than Kirchner who we know what he can do and he just isn’t quite good enough to be a Bok.

  • Comment 120, posted at 23.11.10 11:22:09 by lostfish Reply
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  • I cant agree with Hougaard scoring a 6 – he might have had a good first 12 minutes or so, but gee did things go down hill from there – I blame peer pressure, everyone else was playing kak and he probably thought he should join them. I also though Bismark had a bad game. I blame him for the line outs we missed, I know the weather was bad, but 2 of the throws we lost were way to high – matfield would have needed another 30 cm to reach them. It’s not only his fault, but he definitely contributed. Deon Stegman was quiet like in the first 2 games, he might be good enough for Super 14, but he’s not cutting it in the tests

  • Comment 121, posted at 23.11.10 11:25:26 by MB1810 Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 88) : Yes I saw some of it,I don’t like rampage or machida but for me it was really close and would have given it to rampage for his attacking approach.
    I looked forward for Hughes and penn but it ended in 21sec.
    I am not even going to rate them,the wheels of Jake white’s work is coming of at the wrong time for pdv I think

  • Comment 122, posted at 23.11.10 11:28:18 by Honey Badger Reply

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  • @lostfish (Comment 120) : I completely agree – He leads the running meters gained stats against Scotland, but the majority of those meters is when he catches a highball runs 10meters up field and then either kicks or gets tackled by the first defender he faces. His game is predictable and dull and he doesn’t deserve that spot.

  • Comment 123, posted at 23.11.10 11:28:32 by MB1810 Reply

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  • @zvision10 (Comment 93) :

    Frans doesnt even deserve to be in the team on current form. ANd definitely not at centre.

    He is currently the most overrated and hyped up player in the Bok team!!

  • Comment 125, posted at 23.11.10 12:47:30 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 125) : I agree.

  • Comment 126, posted at 23.11.10 13:55:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 126) : :shock: ;-)

  • Comment 127, posted at 23.11.10 14:03:46 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 125) : On current no-one deserves to be in the team, bar a handful of Sharks players of course :lol:

  • Comment 128, posted at 23.11.10 14:17:55 by CS Reply

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  • @CS (Comment 128) : On current FORM no-one deserves to be in the team, bar a handful of Sharks players of course :lol:

    (Frickin edit function doesn’t work!!!)

  • Comment 129, posted at 23.11.10 14:19:30 by CS Reply

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  • @CS (Comment 129) : read before you post. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 130, posted at 23.11.10 14:49:11 by Letgo Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 127) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 131, posted at 23.11.10 14:49:57 by Letgo Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 125) : More overrated than Kirchner?

  • Comment 132, posted at 23.11.10 18:32:27 by Original Champion Reply
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  • I’ve never rated Ruan and thankfully on Saturday, when it mattered, he had a mare. And thankfully it was completely expected.

    The most unreliable player I’ve ever had the misfortune of supporting.
    I hope du Preez has a speedy recovery and we never again have to see this clown in the GnG.

  • Comment 133, posted at 23.11.10 18:59:54 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • Well lets just hope that the ratings will go up because i just think they had a bad day ;-)

  • Comment 134, posted at 23.11.10 21:12:10 by chaz Reply

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