robdylan

Lambie stuffed around further as Boks name their 21


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 1 Dec 2010 at 13:53
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The Springbok coaching side has named a 21-man outfit to take on the Barbarians at Twickenham. It more-or-less sum up their selection approach for this tour. After excelling in the Currie Cup at flyhalf – and deputising there for Morne Steyn on three occasions so far on tour, Pat Lambie is somehow, miraculously, named to start at fullback.

Up front, Coenie Oosthuizen makes his Bok debut alongside Adriaan Strauss and CJ van der Linde in an all-Cheetah front row. Sharks lock Alistair Hargreaves will start in the second row alongside Bakkies Botha, while Willem Alberts is, somewhat perplexingly, picked at open side flank ahead of Keegan Daniel. That Alberts is deserving of a starting spot is not in question – rather, the logic of picking him in such an unfamiliar position against a team who are guaranteed to play a fast-paced game seems backwards. Juan Smith, who captains the side from the other flank and Ryan Kankowski complete the loose trio.

It’s at halfback where the bizarreness shows itself most. Rather than backing Lambie to run the show from flyhalf, along with his provincial team mates Charl McLeod and Andries Strauss on either side, the coaches have opted to start Lions teenager Elton Jantjies at pivot, along with Bulls man Francois Hougaard. Jantjies has played no rugby at all on this tour – in fact, his team’s failure to qualify for the Currie Cup play-offs mean that the last time he played in a rugby match was almost two months ago. Strauss comes in for his first Bok appearance at inside center, with Adi Jacobs, Odwa Ndungane and Lwazi Mvovo completing an all-Sharks three quarter line (although Strauss is now technically a Cheetah).

The unavailability of both du Plessis brothers due to injury has seen a 6-man bench named, so it’s anyone’s guess who will end up occupying the number 18 shirt currently reserved for “AN Other”. Maybe Os du Randt will dust off his togs for one last gallop around the paddock, just for old times’ sake.

Boks to face the Barbarians
15 Pat Lambie, 14 Odwa Ndungane, 13 Adi Jacobs, 12 Andries Strauss, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Ryan Kankowski, 7 Juan Smith (capt), 6 Willem Alberts, 5 Alistair Hargreaves, 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 CJ van der Linde, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Coenie Oosthuizen
Subs: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 Tendai Mtawarira, 18 Werner Kruger, 19 Flip van der Merwe, 20 Keegan Daniel, 21 Charl McLeod, 22 Gio Aplon.



254 Comments

  • I actually have my head in my hands here…

  • Comment 1, posted at 01.12.10 13:54:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • Relax everybody, the world is not coming to an end yet ;-) Take a deep breath…GO BOKKE !!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 2, posted at 01.12.10 13:57:19 by Charlie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : Pull yourself together, thought you were tough as nails, they do not call you Die Hard for nothing :grin:

  • Comment 3, posted at 01.12.10 13:58:22 by Charlie Reply

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  • Posted this on the other thread. So by not selecting Lambie what does this say to him? That they have no faith in him starting at fh? Shameful from the selectors this, really terrible. They play him from the bench the whole tour as back up to Morne and don’t start him in this game? Feel for the youngster really do. Messing him about for sure.

  • Comment 4, posted at 01.12.10 13:58:48 by Puma Reply

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  • @Charlie (Comment 2) : this is bullshit, Charlie and we must say so. I don’t buy this “back Peter whatever he does” nonsense, especially now that it’s clearly Dick Muir who’s pulling the strings.

    Picking Jantjies ahead of Lambie is WRONG. Lambie is far and away the better flyhalf and everybody knows it.

  • Comment 5, posted at 01.12.10 14:00:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • Question…

    Has it been confirmed by the Sharks management that Patrick Lambie will be their first choice flyhalf for the team in 2011?

    Given Bosman, Andre Pretorius and JL Potgieter will be amongst players to perform there for them (all with Super rugby experience)

    Has Patrick also not been shifted to fullback by his own coaching staff in the last round robin matches of the CC against WP?

    Where did young Lambie play for the Baby Boks a couple of months back?

  • Comment 6, posted at 01.12.10 14:00:50 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 5) :

    Really?

    Who was the flyhalf in the CC team of the year of this site?

  • Comment 7, posted at 01.12.10 14:01:35 by Morné Reply
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  • maybe Puke will be called up from Bath to play. :razz:

  • Comment 8, posted at 01.12.10 14:02:24 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • Good to see them at least giving everyone a run!
    Lambie at fb isnt the worst thing…if Janjies goes well and so does Lambie at leats that starts to answer 2 questions as the Boks dont have a number 1 fullback or number 2 flyhalf.
    So let them play and will judge afterwards. Keen to see what Coenie can do!

  • Comment 9, posted at 01.12.10 14:02:25 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Charlie (Comment 2) : Charlie, what they doing is messing this youngster about. A bloody shame he never got to start at fh. Really daft these selectors.

    No Bissie on the bench even, so why the heck is he still in London and not back home? They have not damn clue the whole lot of em. Maybe the (An Other) is Bissie. Probably.

  • Comment 10, posted at 01.12.10 14:02:36 by Puma Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 9) :

    There we go, some optimism!

  • Comment 11, posted at 01.12.10 14:03:05 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 5) : Feel the same Rob. I am angry as blood hell about this.

  • Comment 12, posted at 01.12.10 14:04:10 by Puma Reply

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  • OMW, you guys, why so precious about Lambie? Div has made it pretty clear from the beginning that everyone would get a run, we’ve all be reading the reports and probable teams and all of them featured Jantjies at 10. I’m just surprised Lambie isn’t at 12, still not a biggie. We’re using this game as a test, it isn’t the be all and end all and certainly won’t be the end of Lambie’s career. Sheesh.

  • Comment 13, posted at 01.12.10 14:08:09 by molly Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 7) : cheap shot that.

    I picked Jantjies because it was a CC team. At the time it was made very clear that it was a CC team but if it was to be a potential Bok team then Lambie would have made the team because of his VASTLY superior experience.

    I think I was the swingvote on that selection.

  • Comment 14, posted at 01.12.10 14:08:37 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 6) : Morne, Look Lambie is a damn fine FB we saw that more so in the S14, but he deserved to start this game at fh, I think you would agree there. Why have him as back up to Morne the whole tour and finally when he can get a start they shift him back to FB, where we know he can play well from the start. I would have like to have seen him start this game with McLeod at fh and Hougaard to 14. Ag, the whole think of messing players about in this country never stops. Really gets to me but think we may see Lambie move into the fh position once Gio comes on later but that is not the point, just wanted to see him start at fh and see how he does with more game time there in a big game.

  • Comment 15, posted at 01.12.10 14:10:40 by Puma Reply

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  • Why the anger? This is a Barbarians game. Doesn’t even count towards a Bok test cap. Jantjies and Lambie in the same side is a pretty exciting prospect. So is Juan and Alberts. Very interested to see how that works.

    This is the one fixture where the coaches should be allowed to experiment in my opinion.

  • Comment 16, posted at 01.12.10 14:10:42 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 14) : and besides, if we’d chosen the team after the Currie Cup final, I would have called ANYONE who didn’t pick Lambie over Jantjies a sodding retard.

  • Comment 17, posted at 01.12.10 14:11:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 6) : since when do coaches “confirm” who’s going to be starting in which position months before the competition kicks off? Talk about inviting complacency…

  • Comment 18, posted at 01.12.10 14:12:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • On the bright side, an all SHARKS backline!!

  • Comment 19, posted at 01.12.10 14:12:56 by dawj Reply

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  • I’m out of here for a bit guys. Don’t want to say something I might regret

  • Comment 20, posted at 01.12.10 14:13:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • Maybe, just maybe, the management knows what Lambie can offer at FH and has proven himself enough? Now its Jantjies turn? We can def use some flexi players to cover a few positions, and as Van Wilder says, its a Baa Baa’s game, it’s ALL about experimentation.

  • Comment 21, posted at 01.12.10 14:13:34 by molly Reply
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  • Okay just read that both the Du Plessis brothers have a injury, so why Bissie is not there. Hope the injury both have is not serious.

  • Comment 22, posted at 01.12.10 14:14:38 by Puma Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 14) :

    Not at all.

    Ask a Sharks supporter who he reckons is best between Lambie and Jantjies, and they will pick Lambie.

    Ask a Lion supporter, and it will be the opposite.

    @Puma (Comment 15) :

    Lambie was the official 10 back-up for the tour, which means in the real tests, he obviously holds the wood over Jantjies.

    Looking at the team, and given Kirchner is injured, who else to play fullback?

    Jantjies?

    Gio is on the bench, and he only covers fullback or center.

    Jantjies will not play 80 minutes, and similar to what your coach did against WP this year, Gio will come on, Lambie will shift to 10 with McCleod arguably also making an appearance at the same time or soon after and you can rest assured, Daniel will also be on and you will have half the Sharks team on the field which should please you all.

  • Comment 23, posted at 01.12.10 14:15:22 by Morné Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 21) : And it’s not unknown in SA teams for the fullback and flyhalf to switch roles on occasion

  • Comment 24, posted at 01.12.10 14:15:56 by vanmartin Reply
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  • :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    ………
    :cry:

  • Comment 25, posted at 01.12.10 14:16:52 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 5) : AAAAAAAAAAA f878ing men Rob i agree with you 1 milion %

  • Comment 26, posted at 01.12.10 14:17:32 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 16) : Agree that Janjties and Lambie in the same side is exciting, but then would have liked to see Lambie at inside centre with Elton next to him. That would be very exciting. Though not in this game, but maybe for after they both have played a few together, yes Lambie can tackle too. So have no problem with him at inside centre.

  • Comment 27, posted at 01.12.10 14:17:37 by Puma Reply

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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 26) : Howzit Sharky, I am bloody angry too. Messing Lambie about it seems.

  • Comment 28, posted at 01.12.10 14:19:04 by Puma Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 23) : Morne, why are you trying to protect every decision Pdiv makes.

    I’m not saying everything he does is completely wrong, and I get that he cannot pleas everyone, but this is just stupid.

    Absolutely stupid.

  • Comment 29, posted at 01.12.10 14:20:11 by Letgo Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 26) : make that 10 mil % :lol:

  • Comment 30, posted at 01.12.10 14:20:19 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Its an exciting team in what one would hope will be an exciting game. I’m a little worried about how light the backline is, but hells they’re should throw the ball around quite nicely. Frans isn’t there to dropkick every 2 minutes either.
    Also, haven’t Jantjies and Lambie played together in a team in these positions? They should know eachother pretty well.

  • Comment 31, posted at 01.12.10 14:20:30 by molly Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 29) :

    Yeal all Sharks supporters will agree with you.

    Fact is, Lambie has represented his age group national team at 15, and played Super rugby at 15.

    In my view, he is the best option to run out at 15.

    But I do not expect a single person here to agree with me.

  • Comment 32, posted at 01.12.10 14:22:43 by Morné Reply
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  • As a lions supporter im glad to see Elton getting some game time . Give they guy a chance to show what he got .. its not like ts an official test or anything

  • Comment 33, posted at 01.12.10 14:23:21 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Puma (Comment 28) : hiyas my brudda :mrgreen:

    have to agree , again its a sharks player that is being stuffed around , and if he has 1 bad game , the whole of south africa will be talking about a useless over hyped kid

  • Comment 34, posted at 01.12.10 14:23:39 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 29) :

    And who says I am protecting PDV, I have not mentioned him in one single post yet.

  • Comment 35, posted at 01.12.10 14:24:11 by Morné Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 31) : Yeah they played together in the u20′s wc. But that is not the point, Lambie should have been given a chance to start at fh. What are they saying to him that they have no faith in him playing fh? Cause that is how I see it by not starting him. Shameful the lot of them selectors.

  • Comment 36, posted at 01.12.10 14:24:14 by Puma Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 23) : You keep saying you would not have used Lambie in any other way, than bringing him on for the last 20 of every match cause he will get his 80 in the Barbarians game. He’s not a fullback anymore so what’s the point of selecting him there?

    This will mean nothing for him. He’d like to get selected at 10 or at the very least 12. That’s where he is bes, he has proved that. Now div selects him at 15. What will this selection teach us… nothing!

    Lambie is good at 15, we know that. I think he’ll be good at 14,11 13, 9. He’s a good player, but where does Div see him in the bok team of the future. Is this guy even thinking about these things? Is he thinking at all?

    :evil:

  • Comment 37, posted at 01.12.10 14:24:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 33) :

    Thanks, proves my point.

  • Comment 38, posted at 01.12.10 14:24:51 by Morné Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 13) : why n :roll: play jantjies out of position ?? then we can slate him is he fails?? not so?? its ok if its a sharks player

    thus we end up losing players to go play overseas as they get fedup

  • Comment 39, posted at 01.12.10 14:25:13 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 29) : I’m going to try say this without being sooper attacking, but there is a pattern here. For the last 3 weeks the team has been announced you come on here saying PdV is being stupid and most of the time its just Lambie that grates your nerve. And in the last 3 weeks we come here on a Monday and find out the team has won (except Scotland which I don’t think anyone saw coming).
    So here is my question, what is SO wrong about this team?

  • Comment 40, posted at 01.12.10 14:25:44 by molly Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 37) :

    In whose opinion is he not an option for Fullback anymore?

  • Comment 41, posted at 01.12.10 14:26:04 by Morné Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 34) : I know Sharky, the saffa supporters are ruthless and really hope they youngsters take no notice to it.

    Thought Lambie played well. Only missed two kicks that is about all he done wrong. Morne missed a sitter on Saturday too. Ag, it makes me really angry this.

  • Comment 42, posted at 01.12.10 14:26:34 by Puma Reply

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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 39) : But Lambie isn’t being played out of position? He knows FB better than FH. Jantjies I don’t think has played a minute of FB.

  • Comment 43, posted at 01.12.10 14:26:36 by molly Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 35) : You’re protecting the stupid decisions he makes. If Lambie is the best for 15 now, then why not for the tests. Aplon was preferred there for Ireland, he should have stated there this game. That would have been the logical thing to do.

  • Comment 44, posted at 01.12.10 14:26:47 by Letgo Reply
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  • cant understand u wp supporters, when the sharks move a guy like lambie around in the backline, then we are stuffing up his career like we did with Ruan and Russell, but its okey if Pdiv does it?? :roll:

  • Comment 45, posted at 01.12.10 14:26:50 by VanWilder Reply

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  • Morne, you have issues dude.

    I understand you back Peter to the hilt but you’re starting to sound like a youth league supporter whereby your support is so blind that the man can do nothing wrong and he even urinates Jack Daniels.

  • Comment 46, posted at 01.12.10 14:26:57 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • I bet if I head over to the Lions fan site, I will not find a single comment suggesting Lambie should be picked ahead of Jantjies.

  • Comment 47, posted at 01.12.10 14:27:06 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 38) : point is morne , a no matter game . lets say jantjies does have a good one?? so he now over atkes a player who is not giving the same chance\

    sorry mate i cant agree on this one

  • Comment 48, posted at 01.12.10 14:27:10 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 45) :

    Please dont use Morne to generalise about all WeePee fans.

  • Comment 49, posted at 01.12.10 14:27:43 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 46) : :lol:

  • Comment 50, posted at 01.12.10 14:27:56 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 34) : Stop overhyping him then. He is good we all know it. What annoys me is that he got stuffed around at the Sharks, ONE positional move at the Boks and PdV has ruined his career, amazing.

  • Comment 51, posted at 01.12.10 14:28:11 by molly Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 37) : Good post Letgo, Agree there.

  • Comment 52, posted at 01.12.10 14:28:48 by Puma Reply

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  • This is not only PDiv btw but Muir too assholes :twisted:

  • Comment 53, posted at 01.12.10 14:28:58 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 46) :

    Dude, every thing I said so far is in context of the players, positions, the game itself coming up on Saturday.

    Have a read through that team sheet quickly again.

    Look at who we are playing.

    How many of those okes, in those specific positions, would you reckon will run out for the Boks in 2011?

  • Comment 54, posted at 01.12.10 14:29:23 by Morné Reply
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  • I dont see why you’re all surprised/angry.

    This is probably the best selection decisions that have been made all tour!
    I mean really, Stegman started four tests on a grand slam tour and now you’re upset because Cupid was picked at FB instead of FH?

    I’m not particularly happy about the selection but that’s what happens when you have a tin-pot coaching… erm sorry managing… the side.

  • Comment 55, posted at 01.12.10 14:29:46 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 43) : No one said Jantjies should play FB?

    I’m glad jantjies gets a chance, but it should not have been at the expense of the player you trusted as the backup the whole tour.

    Think how you would have felt if you were Lambie.

    And Lambie is trying to specialize in one position, that position being 10 right now. His 20, do you want another Brent Russel, Gaffie, Frans, Ruan….and and and on your hands.

    I’m not trying to be over critical of Div, but he’s making it really hard not to.

    I’m pretty happy with the rest of the selections.

  • Comment 56, posted at 01.12.10 14:29:48 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 44) : Its obvious, he’s giving the youngsters a go.

  • Comment 57, posted at 01.12.10 14:30:05 by molly Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 48) :

    So Jantjies is not allowed to have a good one?

    How about Lambie proves himself as a 10 in the Super 15 first dude?

    Or do we pick players straight from Currie Cup into Bok positions now?

  • Comment 58, posted at 01.12.10 14:30:44 by Morné Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 48) : Agree there Sharky. Just watch they will give Jantjies more time there and not Lambie. Not fair, if anyone thinks this is fair don’t agree with them at all.

  • Comment 59, posted at 01.12.10 14:30:46 by Puma Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 32) : I DO AGREE !!! ;-)

  • Comment 60, posted at 01.12.10 14:31:09 by Charlie Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 43) :

    No not at the Lions . When Taute got injured Killian was moved to FB …

  • Comment 61, posted at 01.12.10 14:31:14 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 51) : how is wanting him to get his fair chance he deserves overhyping him??? come now you would be crying if it was one of your players being messed around

    this is about a young player who is being robbed of the chance to establish his place fairly, in the same posotion he normally plays

  • Comment 62, posted at 01.12.10 14:32:03 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 54) :

    Mate, if you really want to try that exercise why not look at it in the context of every single thing you’ve said about Peter over the last three years.

    Patterns dear boy, patterns. You’ve unfortunately got past form mate.

    The man is not always right… in fact I’d venture that he’s worng more than he’s right… yet you refuse to accept any criticism whatsoever.

    Occasional criticism is good Morne… blind faith is for idiots and zealots.

  • Comment 63, posted at 01.12.10 14:32:31 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Charlie (Comment 60) :

    Hehehe.

    Okay I have 1 :!:

    Thanks dude.

  • Comment 64, posted at 01.12.10 14:32:36 by Morné Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 49) : my bad Vin ;-)

  • Comment 65, posted at 01.12.10 14:33:46 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 63) :

    I don’t think I have changed much of what I said about him in 3 years, unless you can point out the obvious to me.

  • Comment 66, posted at 01.12.10 14:34:19 by Morné Reply
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  • I feel they just have not given Lambie enough chance. NO youngster should have to be messed about like this NONE. Lambie sat on the bench for the whole of the tour and waited his turn, now what? Has to play FB? Not fair this. Jantjies has not played even 1min this tour and gets to start. What does that tell Lambie? He is not good enough? Idiots the whole bloody lot who selected this team.

  • Comment 67, posted at 01.12.10 14:35:01 by Puma Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 58) :

    Precedent was set in the last three tests Morne… so the answer to your question is a resounding YES, we do pick players straight from CC.

    But, seen as its PdV, its probably a great decision. Non?

  • Comment 68, posted at 01.12.10 14:35:06 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 47) : You know Morne, if Pdiv preferred Jantjies all tour long, I would have been upset (a little less than I am now) if Lambie had started. Because in my opinion both players deserves a shot, but Pdiv should give Lambie a proper chance after only giving him 10/15 min here and there.

    Also if he did not want to select him at 10, rather select him on the bench and give him a full 40min run in the second half. That would have made sense.

  • Comment 69, posted at 01.12.10 14:35:30 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 66) :

    Thats my point buddy! You’re a stuck record and can see the man do nothign wrong.

    When you decide to be a bit more even-handed you may be able to have a decent debate about him on this forum.

  • Comment 70, posted at 01.12.10 14:36:12 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • Anyhows guess there is nothing all the moaning will do about it

    yes i am glad lambie is starting anyhow, but it should have bneen in the position he plays through thr year

  • Comment 71, posted at 01.12.10 14:36:22 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 62) : Your last paragraph. 100% spot on.

  • Comment 72, posted at 01.12.10 14:37:22 by Puma Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 32) : okey, but why did he not play at fullback in the other 4 tests, even as a sub?? I agree that he has the talent to play there, but can PDiv just make up his mind on where he wants to play him…

  • Comment 73, posted at 01.12.10 14:37:22 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 58) : True words :grin:

  • Comment 74, posted at 01.12.10 14:37:27 by diablo Reply

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  • Would you all feel much better if Naas Botha was selected @ 10 ?

  • Comment 75, posted at 01.12.10 14:38:07 by Charlie Reply

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  • I agree with you Morne!
    Jeez people need to relax. Its not even a test match!! :roll:

  • Comment 76, posted at 01.12.10 14:38:20 by wpw Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 48) :

    dam you sharks are selfish …. Give Jantjies a chance . give him some exposure … its not a big game .. its not even against Scotland …

    even if Jantjies has a total blinder .. i dont think he will be picked at FH for the boks till after the wc .. and even then lambie might have first go … its not a conspiracy .. chilll

  • Comment 77, posted at 01.12.10 14:39:02 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 73) :

    Dude, I think the obvious is that PdV picks his side in the same way your old high school coach used to pick his side.
    He picks the best side and picks them until they break and then picks the next guy.
    There is no vision about where he wants to be 3, 6 or 12 months from now and no forward-planning.

  • Comment 78, posted at 01.12.10 14:39:31 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 68) :

    It has?

    Let me think of new’ish players that played in the recent tests…

    Front row? none
    Locks? Nah
    Loosies? Stegmann I suppose but he is a Super rugby veteran almost
    Half’s? Nope
    Centers? Nope
    Back three? Nope – apart from Mvovo when we ran out of players.

    Bench – yeah a couple, Lambie, Alberts (although lots of Super rugby experience), Mvovo… (to which I am on record saying it is a good way to go about things).

    Nope sorry mate, can’t see the precedent you are referring too…

    @Letgo (Comment 69) :

    Do you seriously, for one second, believe that any performance on Saturday will put one guy in the saddle for Bok selection in 2011 given there is a whole Super 15 to be played?

    Are you guys for real?

    Or are you afraid Plum will not select Lambie as his primary 10 to prove he is indeed Morne’s official understudy?

  • Comment 79, posted at 01.12.10 14:40:58 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 41) : He is an option there, but then he needs to stay there. Not 10 for 3 tests then 2 min at 15 against England then 15 against the Barbarians 10 for the Sharks in the super 15. 15 again when the June tours comes for the Boks.

    His coaches, Plumtree and the player decided that he would like to be a 10. He should be selected at 10, like Morne Steyn is selected at 10. Bismark is selected at 2 and Fourie Du Preez is selected at 9, from now on. Otherwise he will not become anywhere near the player he could be.

  • Comment 80, posted at 01.12.10 14:41:51 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 79) :

    Morne, do you understand the meaning of the word precedent?

  • Comment 81, posted at 01.12.10 14:42:19 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 70) :

    I reason every point I make.

    It is open for you to agree to or not, even debate if it is necessary.

    I have been hugely critical of PDV in 3 years on many aspects, but alas, not too worry, I was told the same things when I ‘blindly’ supported Jake White.

  • Comment 82, posted at 01.12.10 14:43:00 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 79) : I am impressed with your patience, you control yourself WAY better than me.

  • Comment 83, posted at 01.12.10 14:43:27 by molly Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 77) : Zibbie, Jantjies deserves to have some gametime this tour, but starting him at fh after not eve playing 1min of this tour buddy? How can that be fair to Lambie who has only come on for 15 min of 3 games? Lambie deserved to start this game, get a chance to see how he does staring, then move him later to FB and bring on Jantjies, don’t you think that would have been fair to Lambie?

  • Comment 84, posted at 01.12.10 14:43:36 by Puma Reply

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  • just a question about Jantjes? he`s got the talent and everything, but i really hope that he does not end up like Ricky january, with his big ass and everything, he has got the talent for the same problem…

    not a problem in giving Jantjes a chance, but Lambie had to wait his chances from the bench, i think he deserves a start at flyhalf and Janjtes playing off the bench… its called a pecking order… :cool:

  • Comment 85, posted at 01.12.10 14:43:39 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Puma (Comment 84) : sorry for typos there.

  • Comment 86, posted at 01.12.10 14:44:20 by Puma Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 81) :

    Yeah, I even looked it up just now.

    Do you want me to post the meaning?

  • Comment 87, posted at 01.12.10 14:44:35 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 82) :

    I understand you reaosn every point.

    But have you ever considered that you’re not seeing the wood for the trees?
    Any decision anybody makes can be justified on the grounds of considering those specific circumstances.
    When you look at the bigger picture and the pattern of decisions made it suddenly looks completely different.

    Morne – I honestly think you may just enjoy being the contrarian.

  • Comment 88, posted at 01.12.10 14:45:37 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 78) : agree 100%. i get the feeling that he does not even worry about this game, just want to get it over with and get home…

  • Comment 89, posted at 01.12.10 14:45:54 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 64) : Hey, there’s two of us guy! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 90, posted at 01.12.10 14:46:37 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 80) :

    He has only played in a handful of games there for the Sharks in the Currie Cup.

    I hardly think you can say he is established.

    Or I missed the comment from Plum then in that regard.

  • Comment 91, posted at 01.12.10 14:47:02 by Morné Reply
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  • I really dont see what all the fuss is about? Janjies is a 10 and is being a chance there. Lambie is a 15 that has played a little bit at 10 but is now back at 15. Just look at O’Connor from Oz- does he moan and complain about playing wing now and then sulking about moving positions, no he goes out every game and then tries to prove that he is the best player in the position he is chosen in! Eventhough this isnt a test it is still playing for your country and they should feel damn lucky to get to be in the 22 nevermind start. So wherever they get put to play they should suck it up and perform, otherwise no they are not good enough and i dont care what position they play in! Scrumming/throwing & jumping in lineouts and goal kicking are specialist skills but other than that every player should be able to do everything as they are professionals. Dont tell me you cant run and catch and tackle just because you are at 15 and not 10!

  • Comment 92, posted at 01.12.10 14:47:48 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 80) : You can’t even compare those players. Morne is at 10 cause he is kak(-er depending on your feelings) anywhere else.
    Bismark the same, FdP the same.
    Whereas you can shift Aplon between 14/15 cause he fills them both out well. You can even move TWG13 to wing and he’d do it justice. You shift Alberts in the back row, he seems just fine as well. Same with Danie Rossouw and lock/loosie. Frans was also know to do 12/15 justice (I’ll debate the 10 cause he only played well there once, against WP in torrential rain).

  • Comment 93, posted at 01.12.10 14:47:56 by molly Reply
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  • What the heck Adi Jacobs with all his experience had to wait in line to start at last after make shift 13′s, so Baby Lambie be patient ;-)

  • Comment 94, posted at 01.12.10 14:48:03 by Charlie Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 79) : Morne, I have no doubt Plum will play Lambie at 10 this whole S15. The others will be back up. When Lambie gets a rest. Plenty will be rotated and rested this S15 but Lambie will be our number one fh. Plum wont mess Lambie about buddy.

  • Comment 95, posted at 01.12.10 14:48:45 by Puma Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 88) :

    Its true, I make no secret that I take the side of the coach, any coach really with the exception of Fester.

    @vanmartin (Comment 90) :

    Add Wes and Charlie and we are 4 strong!

  • Comment 96, posted at 01.12.10 14:48:55 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 58) : Jantjies has not played any Super rugby, Lambie has. What’s your point?

    Jantjies can have a good one. I’m glad for him, but Lambie should have been selected there based on the fact that he was preerred the whole tour.

  • Comment 97, posted at 01.12.10 14:49:11 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 87) :

    Only if you understood what you read Morne.

    The reason I asked is that a precedent refers to a singular event.
    Therefore, in this example, for a precedent to be set doesnt require the pervasive selection of players that have not had exposure to Super rugby, it only requires one.

    Lambie would therefore be the precedent set and going through the rest of the team seeking further examples is irrelevant.

    The answer is YES, a precedent was set when Lambie was selected with minimal Super rugby experience.

  • Comment 98, posted at 01.12.10 14:49:42 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • Out of here. Cheers everyone.

  • Comment 99, posted at 01.12.10 14:49:55 by Puma Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 96) :

    But mate, you dont see how this attitude influences your objectivity?

  • Comment 100, posted at 01.12.10 14:50:21 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Charlie (Comment 94) :

    Preech it brother.

    Now there is a player I believe should have started against Ireland already.

    And blow – he is a Shark!

  • Comment 101, posted at 01.12.10 14:50:51 by Morné Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 85) :

    exzactly .. thats why Hougaard got picked head of McLeod

  • Comment 102, posted at 01.12.10 14:51:25 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 57) : Why is Keegan not getting a go. He had 15min this whole tour? Juan Smith surely does not need to play this game. Giving Patrick a go at 15 is pointless btw!!!

  • Comment 103, posted at 01.12.10 14:52:58 by Letgo Reply
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  • I honestly can’t see Div picking Jantjies a year from now simply because he performed well in one ‘test’ against the Barbarians. He didn’t even give Earl ‘Tiger Woods’ Rose such a break.

  • Comment 104, posted at 01.12.10 14:52:58 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Just a quick note to all those moaning about the “fairness” of this selection.

    Life is not “fair”. There is no scorecard where you’re owed or owing “fair points”. It doesnt work that way and you get what you get.

    “Fairness” is a leftist ideology that has never worked. The world doesnt run on “fairness”, it runs on greed, conviction and sheer bloody-mindedness.

  • Comment 105, posted at 01.12.10 14:53:38 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 105) : And middle-eastern oil. You forgot oil. :grin:

  • Comment 106, posted at 01.12.10 14:55:40 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Well I was coming to have a good ‘ol bitch about the selections but I see it’s all be said already

  • Comment 107, posted at 01.12.10 14:55:41 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 103) : Who will be captain then ?

  • Comment 108, posted at 01.12.10 14:58:45 by Charlie Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 103) : ok, so lets say Juan doesn’t play, who is your captain? He is there for his captaincy and experience. You DO need a little experience dotted around the field, even for a baabaa’s game.

  • Comment 109, posted at 01.12.10 14:59:17 by molly Reply
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  • Let me make it clear, there is no doubt in my mind that Lambie will be the backup flyhalf next year, he’ll also be the backup centre and FB, cause he can cover all of those. But my guess is that JdJ will cover centre from the bench, and Hougaard wing and scrumhalf. (Hougaard… playing wing? But he’s just settled at scrumhalf for the Bulls… why shift him around, let him specialise, bla bla bla)

  • Comment 110, posted at 01.12.10 15:02:41 by molly Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 97) :

    Uhm yes, but he has played flyhalf exclusively his whole career, including at Bok age group level.

    Point is quite simple actually.

    @VinChainSaw (Comment 98) :

    Oh so one instance, or one factor sets a precedent?

    (An act or instance that may be used as an example in dealing with subsequent similar instances)

    Then you are right, I did not get the meaning.

    @VinChainSaw (Comment 100) :

    Have you read this thread, and you want to preech objectivity to me?

    What I will give you is the reason I usually select the view of a coach, or argue it, is because I think there is very little appreciation or understanding of the dynamics for it.

  • Comment 111, posted at 01.12.10 15:02:46 by Morné Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 105) : Well to moan about the unfairness of this is a waste too, by this time Lambie is already preparing himself mentally to do his country proud at 15, he is young, humble, surely no prima donna and plays for the team, hope we can go all out if something like this happens during next year’s Super 15, as I foresee some tough selections ;-)

  • Comment 112, posted at 01.12.10 15:02:59 by Charlie Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 103) :

    Who would you make captain?

  • Comment 113, posted at 01.12.10 15:03:27 by Morné Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 105) :

    Spot on.

  • Comment 114, posted at 01.12.10 15:04:03 by Morné Reply
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  • I think this is the quickest century in SW history.

    let it not be said I do not pay the bills for this site!

    I am out for 10 minutes.

  • Comment 115, posted at 01.12.10 15:06:14 by Morné Reply
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  • Any player that generates this amount of debate must be doing at least something right! I think we could all agree on that.

  • Comment 116, posted at 01.12.10 15:10:28 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Don’t mind this line up at all…they have gone for balance and have thought of combinations too and hoe effective they will be in a Barabarians game. Lambie Fullback…not a bad choice, he is classy at 15 too, plus it is the only way to get Elton some game time too, and Elton is spot on when it comes to the goal kicks. Dries adds balance to the midfield, eg. Lambie at inside wouldn’t have created good balance. Dries can make the hits and carry it up, leaving Adi with more space to create opps 4 the outside backs aswell as hitting the gaps hard himself. I understand why Alberts is at 6. Firstly Juan is captain and Alberts deserves a start and Kanko is also awesome in open games. The fetcher is mainly required during the first half when space in closed quickly and teams tend to keep ball in hand…we then need to get it back; But this barbarians team won’t be so organized on defence so we don’t really need a breakdown specialist. I think we will do well no matter what the conditions are on Sat, but hoping for a bone dry one. Interesting to see who will come in at 18???? Maybe we steal van zyl from Barbarians?? Not sure if we will fly someone in, but if we do maybe Danie/Sykes/Mostert…we will see…Bokke to take it by around 10 points…forwards will lay the platform, as long as we defend well too we should win.

  • Comment 117, posted at 01.12.10 15:11:23 by JJR Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 116) : Well it’s obvious, the player is linked to SW playing for the Sharks :twisted:

  • Comment 118, posted at 01.12.10 15:12:23 by Charlie Reply

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  • @JJR (Comment 117) :

    Some people (reading comments on various other blogs) actually prefer him at 15 believe it or not.

    And now we are 5!

  • Comment 119, posted at 01.12.10 15:12:27 by Morné Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 116) : Thats the thing, he is a great talent and is the future. We are not debating that, just reminding everyone that this is a BaaBaa’s game and hence, a little experimental.

  • Comment 120, posted at 01.12.10 15:16:11 by molly Reply
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  • @Charlie (Comment 118) : Agreed, but imagine this was Andre Pretorius being mentioned in the article. 10 – 20 comments max. :lol:

  • Comment 121, posted at 01.12.10 15:16:34 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 119) :

    Then who have you earmarked to be the back-up fly-half for the RWC, surely that should be an issue Bok Management should have decided by now and be giving them as much Bok game time as possible?

  • Comment 122, posted at 01.12.10 15:18:09 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @Charlie (Comment 118) :

    Everybody will argue a point from a specific reference.

    For most, their reference is their association with the game. And that is their union. And obviously fair enough.

    KSA will be split on this, because his reference for example is refereeing and his union – just look back to how he tore into Kanko for stamping on the one player in one CC game…

    Mine is coaching.

    At least people cannot accuse KSA and myself most of the time of being bias… ;)

  • Comment 123, posted at 01.12.10 15:18:22 by Morné Reply
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  • hehehehe

    I like the team. Jantjies has had to sit on the sidelines all tour so far and watch. He is a specialist 10. Lambie has had some goes at 10 in proper internationals, a nice ‘n easy blooding. Now he gets a full 80 minutes at 15 to show his versatility and can also easily cover 10 should things go awry and still get the full 80.

    Lambie has the upper hand as he already showed he can handle 10 at international level.

    Good balance for the team in general. Old and young combined.

  • Comment 124, posted at 01.12.10 15:18:22 by Ollie Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 121) : Lol, AP is completely underrated ;-)

  • Comment 125, posted at 01.12.10 15:19:39 by molly Reply
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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 122) :

    Finally someone asks me that question…

    My personal choice right now (remember a Super rugby tournament might change quite a bit in this regard) is Lambie to back up Morne.

    And no, I do not buy into the game time issue in this debate.

    One game will not define Jantjies or Lambies role for 2011, definitely not a game against the baabaa’s.

    A super 15 however, will.

  • Comment 126, posted at 01.12.10 15:20:45 by Morné Reply
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  • @Ollie (Comment 124) :

    And we are 6!

  • Comment 127, posted at 01.12.10 15:21:14 by Morné Reply
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  • did I miss anything?

  • Comment 128, posted at 01.12.10 15:21:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 128) :

    Nah not much.

  • Comment 129, posted at 01.12.10 15:23:20 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 128) : Werner Kruger also called up to the Boks so I assume he will replace AN Other

  • Comment 130, posted at 01.12.10 15:23:27 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Werner Kruger called up to the Boks…

  • Comment 131, posted at 01.12.10 15:23:52 by Charlie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 128) :

    About 100 comments repeating 3 view points

  • Comment 132, posted at 01.12.10 15:25:23 by Ollie Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 128) :

    Not much.. Its been a quiet afternoon!

  • Comment 133, posted at 01.12.10 15:25:34 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 127) : 7

  • Comment 134, posted at 01.12.10 15:25:43 by diablo Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 128) : Not much. I suggest you ban everyone :twisted:

  • Comment 135, posted at 01.12.10 15:26:15 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 126) :

    I think Lambie has got an “old head” on his 20 year old shoulders but I still think the more time we get him acclimatised to the green and gold 10 jersey the better, in case of a Morne Steyn break down or even loss of form.

    Having said that I also believe Jantjies is a great talent and deserves a run but I am not sure of the timing.

  • Comment 136, posted at 01.12.10 15:26:25 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • well – we just found out who AN Other is… Werner Kruger.

  • Comment 137, posted at 01.12.10 15:27:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Ollie (Comment 132) : just checking the URL… KEO.what? :)

  • Comment 138, posted at 01.12.10 15:28:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 136) :

    It is funny Jantjies didn’t impress me at all in the Under 20 World Cup but with Mitchell and Co, he has looked a different player. Shows what effect coaching and game plan can have on a player.

  • Comment 139, posted at 01.12.10 15:28:55 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @Ollie (Comment 132) : :lol:

  • Comment 140, posted at 01.12.10 15:29:12 by Charlie Reply

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  • ok – so the chaos continues. Given that we already have a prop on the bench, why bring another one out from SA? Why not get another back?

  • Comment 141, posted at 01.12.10 15:29:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 141) : Not a lot of what Divvie is doing makes any sense :|

  • Comment 142, posted at 01.12.10 15:30:34 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @diablo (Comment 134) :

    By tomorrow we might outnumber the rest ;)

  • Comment 143, posted at 01.12.10 15:31:09 by Morné Reply
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  • I can understand where some of you are coming from when saying “that this is not even a real test, so what does it matter?” I wonder what would’ve happened if the Picked Duane at 6? Or someone like JDJ(i know he is injured before you tie up your panties) on the wing? Would you also just have said “ah well, Its just a baabaas game?”

  • Comment 144, posted at 01.12.10 15:34:58 by SharksRTB Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 143) : Fat chance.. :roll:

  • Comment 145, posted at 01.12.10 15:35:17 by diablo Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 128) : :lol:

  • Comment 146, posted at 01.12.10 15:35:24 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 138) :

    Now why you go and swear at me like that. i was just trying to be helpful :twisted:

  • Comment 147, posted at 01.12.10 15:35:44 by Ollie Reply

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  • If i’m not mistaking this site is called SharksWorld??? So forgive us for wanting the best for the players…… especially the Sharks players…… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 148, posted at 01.12.10 15:36:54 by SharksRTB Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 141) :

    It follows the general pattern of PDivvy and the Golden Cocks..

  • Comment 149, posted at 01.12.10 15:38:36 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @SharksRTB (Comment 144) :

    I would call for PDV’s head pronto.

    Duanne should not be allowed close to a Bok jersey!

  • Comment 150, posted at 01.12.10 15:38:52 by Morné Reply
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  • @SharksRTB (Comment 144) : I think I would, but honestly, I can’t be sure. Would be stoked if Duane started anywhere!

  • Comment 151, posted at 01.12.10 15:39:43 by molly Reply
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  • PDIV is HILDA from 7de Laan. :razz:

  • Comment 152, posted at 01.12.10 15:39:47 by SharksRTB Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 151) : I thought as much. wanted to put in my previous comment already ;-)

  • Comment 153, posted at 01.12.10 15:40:33 by SharksRTB Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 150) : :?:

  • Comment 154, posted at 01.12.10 15:41:01 by SharksRTB Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 150) : sarcasm? please let it be sarcasm….

  • Comment 155, posted at 01.12.10 15:41:09 by molly Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 150) : @molly (Comment 151) : @SharksRTB (Comment 152) :

    Well Done SharksRTB….now you have the WP supporters fighting amongst themselves!

  • Comment 156, posted at 01.12.10 15:41:21 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 156) : just doing my bit ;-) :twisted: :razz: :mrgreen: :lol: :grin: :cool:

  • Comment 157, posted at 01.12.10 15:43:18 by SharksRTB Reply

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  • uhm, with regards to Werner being called up, its not in the test window, is that maybe why we can’t call someone up thats there already?

  • Comment 158, posted at 01.12.10 15:43:48 by molly Reply
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  • @SharksRTB (Comment 154) : @molly (Comment 155) :

    Partly yes, but if you ask me if I think Duanne should be picked ahead of Spies, Kanko, Alberts at 8, I’d say no.

    Same goes for 7, Juan, Deysel, Alberts

    And 6, Brussow, Schalk, etc.

    I do not rate Duanne as much as most.

  • Comment 159, posted at 01.12.10 15:44:02 by Morné Reply
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  • can anyone see our SA players lack of basic skills?? i saw that against wales when J dup stood at the base of the ruck giving a lolly pop pass to morne steyn… we REALLY have a drawback with this new law interpretations, as we are use to grind a game, from school level, not run it from every blade of grass of the park. Dont get me wrong, we have skilled okes, but we are far inferior to our Aussie and NZ counterparts. How many times have we seen an overlap being wasted by a forward banging it up, and with Aus and NZ, the forwards can make a gap, pass etc, ussually part of a sweeping backline move… maybe our Boks skills are limited to the kick and chase and banging it up game… (on the other hand, the sharks and bulls proved otherwise in cc and s14 respectively)

  • Comment 160, posted at 01.12.10 15:44:47 by VanWilder Reply

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  • Same goes for Duvenhage btw…

  • Comment 161, posted at 01.12.10 15:44:55 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 150) : Agree, i would choose Spies,Alberts,Kanko,Danie and even Deysel at 8, before i choose Duanne. Speaking of Deysel…can’t wait to see him back on the field…love seeing him bounce okes and then watch them lie on the ground grouning because they are seeing stars…LOL!!!

  • Comment 162, posted at 01.12.10 15:48:25 by JJR Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 159) : Yeah, Alberts is quite similar to Duane in the way they play… and at the moment, Alberts is much better.

  • Comment 163, posted at 01.12.10 15:48:46 by molly Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 159) : In those orders?

  • Comment 164, posted at 01.12.10 15:49:55 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 163) :

    I reckon Duanne is the best defending number 8 we have, but it stops there.

  • Comment 165, posted at 01.12.10 15:49:56 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 161) :

    Come on Morne don’t fain objectivity….you’re as one eyed as the rest of us rugby suppoeters ;)

  • Comment 166, posted at 01.12.10 15:50:32 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 164) :

    No not specifically, I mean I am on record I still prefer Spies as our first choice although I really like Alberts.

    Juan is a no brainer.

    And Schalk still cuts the mustard for me at 6.

  • Comment 167, posted at 01.12.10 15:51:04 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 161) : Dislike Duvenhage immensely, secretly hoping we get Kockott cause he is ALOT better, especially in temperament.

  • Comment 168, posted at 01.12.10 15:51:24 by molly Reply
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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 166) :

    I will give you my brother’s number.

    He is a huge Duanne fan, we argue every single time…

  • Comment 169, posted at 01.12.10 15:51:53 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 161) : Once again i agree…Duvenhage is useless compared to the way people rate him…Scrummies in order 4 SA…fourie,hougaard,mcloed,claasen,ruan,Rocket,Vermaak, etc before i even think of duvenhage…he sucks

  • Comment 170, posted at 01.12.10 15:52:06 by JJR Reply
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  • @SharksRTB (Comment 144) : I was one of the people who said that and honestly I wouldn’t mind. I see the Barbarians game as a golden opportunity to experiment against world class opposition without fear of losing ranking points, coaches being axed, etc….

    Imagine a loose trio including Duane, Alberts and Smith? It may be completely off-balance but can you imagine the number of injured Barbarians?

    The Barbarians games are probably the only places we could see these thought experiments become reality.

  • Comment 171, posted at 01.12.10 15:52:43 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 168) :

    I said it before too. Losing Hoffmann pissed me off badly.

    Would also take Kockett any day of the week. Rate him technically the best 9 after Fourie.

  • Comment 172, posted at 01.12.10 15:52:50 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 167) : Same for me.

  • Comment 173, posted at 01.12.10 15:52:56 by molly Reply
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  • GO BOKKE !!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 174, posted at 01.12.10 15:53:43 by Charlie Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 165) : Not Alberts? he has been taking okes back for the last season…he is the man!!!!

  • Comment 175, posted at 01.12.10 15:54:25 by JJR Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 172) : Define ‘technically’?

  • Comment 176, posted at 01.12.10 15:54:33 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 172) : That was the motivation for me writing my first article, watch him embarrass WP next year by killing us.

  • Comment 177, posted at 01.12.10 15:55:39 by molly Reply
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  • @JJR (Comment 170) : no place for january?? :shock: ;-)

  • Comment 178, posted at 01.12.10 15:56:35 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @VanWilder (Comment 178) : He can have my old position in high school: reserwe lemoen-man

  • Comment 179, posted at 01.12.10 15:59:21 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @JJR (Comment 175) :

    Like I said, I have like Alberts since he broke onto the scene for the Lions.

    He is a more complete 8, strong in all areas of the game – a classical 8 if you will and I like those traditional types.

    I have however seen Spies destroy teams, given what I know he is capable of, he just edges it for me still.

    @Pokkel (Comment 176) :

    All round 9 play.

    Technical skills (passing kicking etc).

    Awareness.

    Variation.

    Defense.

    Application.

    He has gone through a slump I know, and some people may argue his decision making is off the mark.

    Hell I even joked about it right here where I would prefer Kocky at 9 when they played WP because I knew the space he found himself in mentally.

    but give that kid an extended run at 9 again, and he will have the ability to destroy.

  • Comment 180, posted at 01.12.10 16:00:09 by Morné Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 178) : Seriously now, Januarie is more of a gamebreaker than Duvenhage.

  • Comment 181, posted at 01.12.10 16:00:12 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 181) :

    True, I would play Januarie ahead of Duvenhage.

  • Comment 182, posted at 01.12.10 16:01:19 by Morné Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 177) : @Morné (Comment 172) :

    Hey guys now come on now, play the game properly! Stop saying all these nice things about Sharks players! It is just not on.

  • Comment 183, posted at 01.12.10 16:02:15 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @Dive Pass (Comment 183) : hopefully Kockott won’t be a sharky soon ;-)

  • Comment 184, posted at 01.12.10 16:03:29 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 181) : @Morné (Comment 182) : valid point, but i guess in a few years time your scrummie stock will be overflowing with your u/19 and u/21 captains coming through. i still think with more game time duvenhage will come good, but will never be world class… :|

  • Comment 185, posted at 01.12.10 16:05:14 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 184) :

    Now that is better…. gee for a while I thought you were going all soft on us. Its the mountain you know it has that effect on people. That is why Vinnie is still Vinnie, he is far away from the mountain.

  • Comment 186, posted at 01.12.10 16:06:22 by Dive Pass Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 184) :

    Allister has a love affair for some reason with Duvenhage…

  • Comment 187, posted at 01.12.10 16:09:11 by Morné Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 29) : I think Morne’ is actually Dick Muir protecting his job. Dick why don’t you go and coach that sorry excuse for a backline instead of blogging on here! I know its cold over there – I spent 8 yrs there – but pls shut down the laptop and get out there on the fields and teach these okes how to use an overlap ;-)

  • Comment 188, posted at 01.12.10 16:10:25 by neilster Reply

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  • Much ado about nothing imo.

    Suppose missing a couple of sitters at goal didn’t strenghten his case for inclusion at flyhalf.

    Besides why should Jantjies not be given a go? If Currie Cup form is what we’re using then he deserves it just as much if not more. :roll:

  • Comment 189, posted at 01.12.10 16:11:22 by McLovin Reply

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  • @neilster (Comment 188) :

    If only I could do that…

    (Teach them how to use space that is, not shut down the laptop – I use a desktop).

  • Comment 190, posted at 01.12.10 16:12:31 by Morné Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 189) :

    Best point I have read so far ;-)

  • Comment 191, posted at 01.12.10 16:13:04 by Ollie Reply

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  • Anycase, must be off, press conference in 10 minutes ;)

    Ciao

  • Comment 192, posted at 01.12.10 16:13:21 by Morné Reply
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  • Kirchner is out injured.

    Jantjies the kicker?

    Makes perfect sense then to pick Lambie at fullback. Where did he play junior rugby?

  • Comment 193, posted at 01.12.10 16:16:55 by McLovin Reply

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  • @Ollie (Comment 191) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 194, posted at 01.12.10 16:17:46 by McLovin Reply

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  • This was a chance to give Lambie a fair chance at 10 to see what he can do for 80 min not 10 or 20min.

    So let’s wait and see how EJ goes.

    Somebody told me before the tour that I have to look what they are going to do with EJ.I ask why and he said he is only going to play 10 against the baabaas and if he he performs he will be Morne rserve for the wc.

  • Comment 195, posted at 01.12.10 16:25:01 by Honey Badger Reply

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  • @molly (Comment 181) : How sad is THAT for WP …when last did WP produce a protege worth getting hot under the collar for like Lambie…Schalk Burger is the last decent rugby player to come from WP to my recollection.
    Cant believe the PDV is shafting Keegan – seems like he would put his grand mother on the pitch before Keegan….have been holding thumbs that Lambie survives PDV trenure and doesnt get wrecked like Ruan and Frans.
    Janties – 2 mths since he last played and now he is STARTING against a team filled with giants, that laaitie is gonna kak – I hope he survives too.

  • Comment 196, posted at 01.12.10 16:34:21 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 196) :

    Erm… any of the Louws? JdJ? Gio Aplon? Andries Bekker? MORNE STEYN?

  • Comment 197, posted at 01.12.10 16:44:23 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 196) : I’m quite fond of JdJ, Aplon and Flouw. They have high hopes for the u20 scrummie and captain, no excitement from me there yet.

  • Comment 198, posted at 01.12.10 16:47:15 by molly Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 197) : Morne Steyn?

  • Comment 199, posted at 01.12.10 16:47:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 197) : hey, nice one!

  • Comment 200, posted at 01.12.10 16:47:45 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 198) : Schreduer? Nee wat, he’s average in the extreme.

  • Comment 201, posted at 01.12.10 16:48:09 by robdylan Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 197) : we could add Francois Hougaard to that as well. Pity we don’t hold on to the good ones.

  • Comment 202, posted at 01.12.10 16:48:24 by molly Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 201) : I don’t like him, but the management see’s something, will give the benefit of the doubt a little longer.

  • Comment 203, posted at 01.12.10 16:49:05 by molly Reply
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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 196) : Oh, and I’m glad you’re blaming PdV for those 2, to my mind its a combo of Jake, Dick, Plum and PdV. They all shuffled them around to the extreme. Didn’t JW play Ruan at 15?

  • Comment 204, posted at 01.12.10 16:51:00 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 158) : you’re right

  • Comment 205, posted at 01.12.10 16:52:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 205) : I usually am ;-)

  • Comment 206, posted at 01.12.10 16:55:33 by molly Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 199) :

    Yup, a Bolander born and bred and taught how to kick the oval ball.
    Schooled at Landbou to my knowledge.

  • Comment 207, posted at 01.12.10 16:59:56 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 197) : Good players…none of them have a spark though and obviously are easily replaced.

  • Comment 208, posted at 01.12.10 17:00:19 by Just a Fan Reply

    Just a FanCurrie Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 207) : you mean Grey Kollege Landbou?

    You’re confusing your Bulls flyhalves…. it was Hougaard who went to Boland Landbou

  • Comment 209, posted at 01.12.10 17:03:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 208) : I think you’re disappearing down a rabbit hole with this one. Any who reckons Juan de Jongh isn’t a special player clearly doesn’t watch much rugby…

  • Comment 210, posted at 01.12.10 17:05:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 210) : Yeah I know – but I am just winding the WP’ers up…its very easy to do…. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 211, posted at 01.12.10 17:24:17 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • @Just a Fan (Comment 211) : LOL! Good work, in that case!

  • Comment 212, posted at 01.12.10 17:29:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 198) : Well WP can’t seem to hold onto any “up and coming stars”….not sure how De Jong slipped under the rader of the Bulls

  • Comment 213, posted at 01.12.10 17:38:43 by Just a Fan Reply

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  • When PDV said Earl ROse is the tiger woods of rugby 2 years ago we should have seen what will happen if the core of our experience reashes there peak…now we are pissing in the wind if we think he will be replaced….saterday the babaas need 10 min of total dominance to give the boks a moerse hiding…geo on the bench…lambie at 15…stegman on tour….just glad rose is lost to first division for now…and then there is chilli….well let’s not go there and follow with rickey january…dick muir is a great couch but he is also very stuborn and when he wants to prove a point young lambie has no chance—bunch of monkeys!!! Let’s get Allistor as head couch with white assisting and the plum on ther forewards…a good defensive couch…clean house and get on with a new staff…rassie and bobs on technicle…steal on fitness…os and percy advising we will lift the world cup!!! With PDV we will lift our suitcases back home!!!

  • Comment 214, posted at 01.12.10 18:17:06 by BoerSeun Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 209) :

    Hmmmm maybe… he was born in Slaapstad though… or Wellington or somewhere to my knowledge.
    But yeah I think you’re right – those boys in blue all look the same to me anyway… ;-)

  • Comment 215, posted at 01.12.10 18:31:35 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 189) : come on bud….EJ made some terrible decisions in the CC…what are U going to state next-EJ deserves it as he is the new player of the year…EJ had a terrible game against the pumas his last to my recollection…he is there on the Dicks promotion…lambie has been robbed the best thing they could have done was to pick a team that have played together. As much as possible…to allll my fellow sharks fans…I can’t wait till next season to see what influence this exposure will have on our boys…exposure is the one thing that the ausies have above all and why I feel they get there youngsters on a roll….a very good sharks side for 2011…

  • Comment 216, posted at 01.12.10 18:42:01 by BoerSeun Reply

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  • not really a surprise. Jantjies did not have any opportunities at this tour so no wonder that de Villiers wanted to reward him a bit. And if this tour is about looking at players then this is the last opportunity to look at Jantjies.
    Pdivvy already had like 60 or so minutes to look at Lambie at flyhalf.

  • Comment 217, posted at 01.12.10 18:43:16 by rekinek Reply
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  • :cool: so many Sharks

  • Comment 218, posted at 01.12.10 18:43:45 by rekinek Reply
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  • @BoerSeun (Comment 216) : You might want to read my post again. :roll:

  • Comment 219, posted at 01.12.10 19:12:48 by McLovin Reply

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  • Wow, talk about much ado about nothing! :shock:

    Its a freaking Baabaas game! Reckon some folks need to buy some perspective…

  • Comment 220, posted at 01.12.10 19:45:53 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 23) :

    Yes I agree with what you say in this comment but that is COMPLETELY the opposite of what you said in the previous comment implying that even on SW Jantjies was chosen as the best CC flyhalf.

  • Comment 221, posted at 01.12.10 19:57:15 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • Werner Kruger is the New guy on the bench.

    Uncapped Blue Bulls prop Werner Kruger has been called up to the Springbok squad for Saturday’s game against the Barbarians at Twickenham in London.

    Kruger, who was a member of the Boks’ preliminary training squad back in October, will depart for London late on Wednesday and will take his place on the Bok bench for this match – the last of South Africa’s year-end tour.

    The 25-year-old front row forward, who has played in close to 50 Super Rugby matches since making his debut in 2008 and 70-odd provincial games, comes in for the injured Bok hooker Bismarck du Plessis.

  • Comment 222, posted at 01.12.10 20:03:00 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • I am being sarcastic about EJ- based on form he was most certainly not the best fly half in the competition and his award as best new player was written off as one crazy joke by about every rugby writer in the Country..jantjies did very well in the CC-but really…come on…this was giving away a bok jersey…

  • Comment 223, posted at 01.12.10 22:30:52 by BoerSeun Reply

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  • Lots of comments!

    What did I miss.

    Am a happy or upset that I had to much work to do to stay and chat?

    Maybe the question should be were you??? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 224, posted at 01.12.10 22:58:45 by Letgo Reply
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  • Saw this coming along time ago .If people are angry at Lambie being shifted from position to position wait till the super 15 your heads will explode .This a south african rugby tradition .To be fair though jantjies can,t play any other position and you need to know what you have in him .Lambie might be the best option at fullback for the world cup ,percy wasn,t fast and he did fine .I wouldn,t drop morne steyn for lambie unless there was another place kicker

  • Comment 225, posted at 01.12.10 23:43:03 by zvision10 Reply

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  • Much too much emotional energy being invested in a player and his position.

    Lambie is our 10. Last year: Ruan is our 10. Before that: Bradley?

    Perhaps you girls should take a time-out and go watch Oprah for a bit.

  • Comment 226, posted at 02.12.10 03:30:52 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Its Ruan Pienaar all over again… mess him around at every position for a few years til he gets bored and pisses off to play abroad.

  • Comment 227, posted at 02.12.10 06:54:57 by Nhumrod Reply

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  • Funny, read an inteview with Lambie recently, he is not even sure where he is best at just yet.

  • Comment 228, posted at 02.12.10 08:28:01 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 228) : it was the same thing with Frans Steyn when he started out, mumbling something about he`s happy just to play where-ever he is needed… until he was second choice to all the backline positions, then he started singing another tune… but on the other hand, frans had the making of being abit cocky from the start of his career, you just dont get that with lambie.

  • Comment 229, posted at 02.12.10 09:07:48 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 209) : didnt morne steyn attend Sand du plessis Secondary?

  • Comment 230, posted at 02.12.10 09:17:43 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @VanWilder (Comment 230) : Yes Morné Steyn went to Sand du Plessis in Bloem. He played Freestate schools in 2002 with Bissie and Ruan Pienaar, but didn’t make the SA Schools. One of the no.10’s picked ahead of him was Peter Grant.

  • Comment 231, posted at 02.12.10 10:19:26 by beet Reply
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  • @VanWilder (Comment 229) :

    I am looking forward to see him at 10 in the Super 15.

  • Comment 232, posted at 02.12.10 10:19:53 by Morné Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 231) : oh shit… really? I was so sure he was one of the Grey boys…

  • Comment 233, posted at 02.12.10 10:52:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • Like Lambs to the slaughter. A margin of no less than 25 points against us, I tell ya’ll.

  • Comment 234, posted at 02.12.10 11:05:28 by Jarson (AddicteD) Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 228) : Phew… took me 2 days to read all these comments :mrgreen:

    I’m a die hard Sharks supporter… but I’m adding my name to Morne’s team list on this one.

    If we go by the theory that both Lambie and Jantjies were taken on this tour for exposure to international rugby, then Lambie’s 3 x 20 mins of game time at flyhalf has given him great exposure… and I think we all agree he acquited himself excellently in the pressure situations he found himself.

    What exposure has Jantjies had so far? Wouldn’t you all be pissed off if Lambie had gone on tour for 4 weeks and didn’t get any game time? I think it’s only fair that Jantjies gets some game time too… but where else would you play him.

    And coming into a Baabaas game, without a strong team, I feel for Jantjies… because he’s going to be the proverbial lamb to the slaughter. Rather him than our loveable “Cupid”

    Don’t you think it’s also in Lambie’s favour to prove to Div that he can competently cover more than one position, because if Div is forced to play Morne for his kicking abilities, at least he can choose Lambie at Fullback over Crusty, Aplon or Frans Steyn… and let’s be honest, none of them have set the field alight at FB this season nor do they tick all the boxes… so if Lambie steps up there’s a position avialble for him in the starting team next year at FB.

    Look at the positives people :twisted:

  • Comment 235, posted at 02.12.10 11:19:44 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • @CS (Comment 235) : stop interrupting my rant with this “sense” of yours! :)

  • Comment 236, posted at 02.12.10 11:31:24 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @robdylan (Comment 236) : I’ll be quite now :smile:

  • Comment 237, posted at 02.12.10 11:46:04 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • @CS (Comment 237) : thank you… :)

  • Comment 238, posted at 02.12.10 12:05:19 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @CS (Comment 235) : Good argument but I want to see Lambie play 10 for the Sharks in the Super 15 and he can’t go to the WC as a 15 having played 10 the whole year. Then Lambie will have to wait his turn to play in the WC behind Morne IMO. What if Morne get’s hurt and Lambie has been playing 15 then he would not have had enough time at 10 to really be effective.

  • Comment 239, posted at 02.12.10 12:17:18 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 228) : A young player like Lambie just wants to play and he’snot going to limit himself by making a statement that he WANTS to play in a specific position.
    @Pokkel (Comment 239) : In any case SA has a huge shortage in quality 10′s so let’s develop those 10′s that shows promise rather that make utility players out of them.

  • Comment 240, posted at 02.12.10 12:20:09 by Pokkel Reply
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  • It would be great if Lambie could improve his overall kicking accuracy and distance by between 15-20% in the short offseason. If he can get this right, not much will stand in the way of him moving ahead of Morné Steyn in the no.10 pecking order in 2011.
    However Elton Jantjies is a fantastic prospect as well. Like Lambie, he’s proven to be a key player, confident and good decision maker. I’m impressed by the maturity and low error rates of both youngsters.
    Hopefully they’ll ID each other as biggest rivals and this compo will inspire them to improve at the same rapid rate that we’ll seen this season. That will be awesome for Bok rugby.

  • Comment 241, posted at 02.12.10 12:44:16 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 91) : He played a few more than a handful Morne. 2 games 15, 3 games 12, 11 games 10…two of those in play-offs against the two best teams of the super14!!!

  • Comment 242, posted at 02.12.10 21:41:09 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 228) : Don’t you think that’s exactly the reason why his coaches and mentors needs to push him in one direction. No player shifted around the backline has ever been the best at one of those position. Only greatish in all of them!

  • Comment 243, posted at 02.12.10 22:05:50 by Letgo Reply
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  • @CS (Comment 235) : If gametime is your argument, what then about Keegan. Has had 15 min so far.

  • Comment 244, posted at 02.12.10 22:08:09 by Letgo Reply
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  • @CS (Comment 235) : And by the way, being able to play in multiple position makes your chance of being the preferred starter in any of those positions much smaller. Chance is Lambie might then be seen as a good bench player as he can cover the whole backline.

    That would suck for him.

  • Comment 245, posted at 02.12.10 22:10:01 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 240) : There, that’s what I wanted to say. Why turn a player into a utility player or even a fullback when we have about 5 other players competing for that position already. At 10 we have Morne Steyn :roll: Butch :???: And then Lambie and Jantjies…

    I’ll say it again. If you preferred starting Jantjies, then Lambie should have covered 10 from the bench.

    Why on earth would you take any player showing some real promise in a position that SA has never had depth in and put him in a position that we never really had a problem with????

  • Comment 246, posted at 02.12.10 22:15:14 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 246) :

    Just think for a minute.

    We dont have fullbacks on tour with the exception of Aplon and he has played a full S14, full CC season when the Boks became available and he played in all 4 tests on EOYT.

    He deserves a break imo and for the very last time THIS IS NOT A TEST MATCH!!

    Lambie will get his chance at flyhalf!

    I am pretty sure he is much more patient that some of the drama queens on this site!! :twisted:

  • Comment 247, posted at 03.12.10 09:38:56 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 247) : Hey…who you calling queens?? All the queens live in CT anyways! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 248, posted at 03.12.10 09:47:47 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Some interesting views on this thread!

    A couple of comments, posted through the season, by sharks fans, on this site:

    “wtf lambie in front off the pols shit man get a grip we need points”

    “Lambie back to 12 for the super 15 with Meyer at 10″

    “But you could also say that Lambie’s poor place-kicking lost us the game.”

    “I want the Sharks to make better selections and pick a kicker. Hell, if it means starting the Rocket over McLeod, I’ll take it!”

    “I hope we can now all agree that Lambie is a kak kicker! ”

    Now take a look at the squad. Two players there that, when on the field, have taken the place kicks for their home unions, and every one here questions the fact that both Elton & Pat need to start?

    Lets rather start with Pat at FH, Elton on the bench, and hope like hell that we score lots of tries, because that way we certainly won’t be kicking a lot of points.

  • Comment 249, posted at 03.12.10 10:24:26 by Greg Reply

    GregSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Greg (Comment 249) : geez mate… how much time did you spend going through the archives to put that together? Or are you perhaps keeping a database of everything everybody says, just in case. That’s perhaps even more worrying!

  • Comment 250, posted at 03.12.10 10:42:50 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @robdylan (Comment 250) : Actually a small lie, they weren’t posted through the season, but all on one thread, after the sharks/Lions game at the Park. I remember them, because I got fairly roasted on that thread, because I was trying to defend Pat, a lot of people mis-read my comments.

    My point is, if you guys are worried when he is the only starting kicker in the sharks line-up, how can you be upset when he is not picked as the only starting kicker in the Bok line-up?

  • Comment 251, posted at 03.12.10 10:56:08 by Greg Reply

    GregSuper Rugby player
     
  • Lambie will be fine at fullback.

    Remember the ball he plucked out of the air in the pouring rain to wrap up our semi final?

  • Comment 252, posted at 03.12.10 11:32:18 by Original Champion Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Original Champion (Comment 252) : I didn’t try to imply anything less. IMO he will be more than fine, but that’s not the point.

    This debate will never be over, maybe long into the future.

    Let’s keep this thread and come back to it in about five years and see if these comments makes more sense then than they do now. ;-)

  • Comment 253, posted at 03.12.10 23:17:23 by Letgo Reply
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  • According to Gavin Rich, Lambie was supposed to start the Scotland/England match but Victor was against it and put Morne ahead.

  • Comment 254, posted at 04.12.10 11:18:30 by Mocho Reply

    MochoVodacom Cup player
     

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