Big Fish

Coaching Conundrums


Written by (Big Fish)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Lions, Original Content, Sharks, Super 14, Super Rugby on 20 Dec 2010 at 23:26
Tagged with : , , , , , ,

The departure of Rory Kockott, and the apparently soon to be confirmed departure of Tendai “Beast” Mtawarira highlights an interesting question around the effectiveness of coaching on certain players.

Some players seem to thrive under their senior rugby coaches, while others seems to stagnate, or even deteriorate. One is left to wonder if clubs and their coaching establishments are failing players, or if some players just fail to engage the system and make themselves uncoachable. 

Beast and Kockott present an interesting contrast. Beast came into the system as a rough diamond – a natural athlete playing as a loose forward, with plenty of power and pace, but little finesse. There can be little doubt that he owes the Sharks coaching system a great debt for helping him make the transition from a good loosie to a world-class loosehead prop. By the same token, there is little doubt that Beast put in the hard yards, was willing to make a difficult transition, and learnt the darks arts of the front row very quickly. His is a success story that looks set to benefit Bok fans, and Lions fans in particular, for some years to come (it’s a pleasure Manie).

By contrast, Kockott is a player whose neglected talents were noticed by the Sharks while languishing in Lions purgatory, and who quickly took his opportunity to make himself first-choice scrumhalf – displacing the highly-rated Ruan Pienaar to flyhalf. But it is really there that the fairy-tale stops. His game never really kicked on from there, and if truth be told, he actually took a few steps backward in the last 2 seasons, culminating in a player mentioned as a Bok last year being relegated to bench-cover and an unheralded transfer this year.

I feel led to ask how this came about. Kockott certainly has all the facets to be a world-class scrumhalf. In my opinion, he is probably the closest direct substitute I have seen to the great Fourie du Preez – aggressive defender and abrasive ball-carrier, very educated boot, inclination and temperament to control a game from the base of the scrum, and of course, the glass-chewing attitude necessary to mix it with the big boys - and come out on top. 

However, Kockott has some glaring weaknesses in his game too; a slow, two-step pass, an affinity for running with the ball down blind alleys irrespective of what opportunities exist outside him, a penchant for kicking too much good ball away, and perhaps most critically, an apparent disinclination to pursue the team goal in the face of personal glory.  

The issue with the above is that it is nothing new – it may have become more patent over time, but it was always there. Short of eventually dropping the young scrumhalf completely, what did the coaching team do to improve his play? Judging by the speed of his fall from grace, Kockott was rewarded for his individual style of play right until he was unceremoniously dropped – talk about conflicting messages!

I can’t help but feel that an earlier and more substantial coaching intervention might have seen the blooming of his undoubted talent in the right direction, instead of the sullen, desperately glory-seeking displays toward the end of his Sharks sojourn. It is too late now, but for the sake of Bok rugby, one must hope that the Lions coaches can help Kockott find the balance between his individual strengths and what suits his team best, and show the discretion and honesty necessary to bend his talents and will to the best style of play.

Of course he will unfortunately not be the only unrealised talent to have departed Durban in recent years. One can hardly forget the likes of Brent Russell, Francois Steyn and Ruan Pienaar, none of whom could be said to be better players after their Sharks sojourn than they were before it. All came in as fantastically talented players, but none of them left substantially better.

Could this be because of the attitudes or discipline of the above players, or has their been a failing in the Sharks coaching system? It is hard to tell, but it is certain that the losses of Pienaar, Kockott and Mtawarira, each in their own way, should raise some concerns for Sharks fans about the coaching system at the home of the Currie Cup.



104 Comments

  • insightful stuff…..great read!

  • Comment 1, posted at 21.12.10 07:21:45 by grant10 Reply
    Super Rugby player
     
  • Thanx Feeesh.

    Good read and certainly makes one think!

  • Comment 2, posted at 21.12.10 07:27:02 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Unless I missed something, beast has not left yet, there is still a fight to be fought.

  • Comment 3, posted at 21.12.10 08:14:52 by war1 Reply
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    war1Super Rugby player
     
  • how true are the Beast rumours? last week his contract was ‘air tight’ and he was staying.

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.12.10 08:27:12 by weeman Reply
    Author
    The HobbitVodacom Cup player
     
  • @war1 (Comment 3) : I agree. He hasn’t left yet. I somehow think that management are going to put in a serious fight to keep him.

    Hell, maybe they can organise an extra sponsor to help Beast out if he is in such a bad financial place.

    This ain’t over by a long shot.

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.12.10 08:27:27 by Butchie34 Reply
    Author
    Currie Cup player
     
  • @weeman (Comment 4) : Apparently the Lions believe there is a loophole that they think they can exploit. Maybe they think the Sharks used the same guy they used to draw up their contracts?

    But even if there is, it will go down to a court battle and can anyone remember Lionel Mapoe? It’ll be long and drawn out. Beast won’t be in the Lions camp for the Super 15 if he does move.

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.12.10 08:29:22 by Butchie34 Reply
    Author
    Currie Cup player
     
  • Very nice article Fish. Makes one think…

    It could off course also be a case of “who wanted to succeed more or who thought they knew better” – Beast who saw an opportunity and gave it 110% and Rory who decided to take the advise from the coaches, but only use what he thinks should work. I mean – one do not always think your coach is right – but the choice is still – do I follow instructions and give it a go, or do I follow my own head on certain issues.

    On the other hand – we might have stronger forward coaches and not so strong backline coaches…The Sharks are after all playing a “win the ball upfront game”..

  • Comment 7, posted at 21.12.10 08:47:09 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • Yeah good one Fish.

    It raises an interesting point…

    Which backline in recent years (since the departure of Campo) has been ‘made’ at the Sharks? Compared to those who has ‘fallen from grace’.

    Many forwards have come into their own at the franchise, but in the last 3 or so years, the backline and backline coaching has been rather average?

  • Comment 8, posted at 21.12.10 08:57:57 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • Fish, for now Beast is still with the Sharks, well the last time I looked :razz: Anyhow could Beast moving to the Lions be the biggest mistake he will ever make? (NOT saying going to the Lions he make him a bad player) rather the time of the move might not be the greatest. WC coming up and if there is a battle to keep Beast, it could land up like the Mapoe affair did. No game time for many, many months. That would leave him out of the S15 and maybe the WC. Then again Sharks never fight for a player if he wants to leave we let the player go. Another thought Smit will then start at Looshead for Sharks that is a given, no way then will PdV select Beast for WC at Loosehead even if all goes well with the move to the Lions and he starts the S15 with them. This move will then allow PdV to select Smit at LH for WC. Cause right now if Beast does stay with the Sharks then it just may be a headache where to play Smit. Hooker/LH/TH???? So who knows this move with Beast to the Lions could get Smit a starting position at Sharks and Boks at LH. Beast will be on the bench then for the Boks. My feeling. So back to what I was saying, maybe this move to the Lions is not such a great idea for Beast, playing wise for 2011 for the Boks, but money wise if he is in debt then probably a wise move, unless Sharks can find another sponsor to help out with keeping Beast.

    I for one would not like us to lose Beast to the Lions. Hope we can keep him at the Sharks.

    Anyhow Fish, good article. I kinda went off the subject a bit there :razz:

  • Comment 9, posted at 21.12.10 08:58:58 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 8) :

    Okay – you said it better than me…but thats what I meant! :lol:

  • Comment 10, posted at 21.12.10 09:01:30 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @war1 (Comment 3) :

    I think it’s a pretty done deal..

  • Comment 11, posted at 21.12.10 09:10:57 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 10) :
    :grin:

  • Comment 12, posted at 21.12.10 09:12:03 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 11) :

    a done deal in terms of beast joining the lions and the sharks taking it to court or a done deal that the sharks will let him go ?

  • Comment 13, posted at 21.12.10 09:20:47 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Not another court drama please?

    If the Lions pay a transfer fee and we don`t go to court we`ll have more money available to get a good replacement for Beast.

  • Comment 14, posted at 21.12.10 09:31:43 by Original Champion Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • Just heard jacques Hair Kallis was in a car accident about 2h30 this monring…apparently drove through his neighbours gate or something…too much celebration??

  • Comment 15, posted at 21.12.10 09:34:11 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 15) : Maybe his new hair got in his eyes. :twisted:

  • Comment 16, posted at 21.12.10 09:35:02 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 15) : In a R8 nogal. :shock: Didn’t know cricketers were that well paid.

  • Comment 17, posted at 21.12.10 09:37:34 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • I thought that Pienaar left because of Springbok coaches and not the Sharks’ ones. At least this seems to be an official version. The Sharks’ coaches I feel were more than accomodating for him.

    Not sure whether Steyn had a problem with Sharks’ coaches either.

  • Comment 18, posted at 21.12.10 09:39:32 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Original Champion (Comment 14) : i do not think money is such a problem for the Sharks. If a man wants to go let him go.

  • Comment 19, posted at 21.12.10 09:40:26 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 8) :
    Nail on head Morne.

    Since the days when Campo was working with the likes of JPP, Murray, Barritt, Steyn and Pienaar – all of whom went on to play international rugby, not much good has happened in the Sharks backline until this CC season.

    Mvovo is another Beastly success story of course, and Lambie is looking really good. Early days yet though.

    Another interesting comparison with a Lions twist is JPP and Waylon Murray.

    Back in 2006/7, when both were young talents making their way, sources in the camp said that the coaches rated Murray much higher because of his high work ethic and willingness to learn.

    Not so with JPP, who was apparently said to be a bit lazy and less inclined to take advice.

    Ironically Murray’s career is the one that stalled, while anyone can see the massive improvements JPP has made – especially in terms of his aerial and positional play and kicking (he kick like an ostrich – ungainly but powerfully).

    These are skills that a player can only improve by hard work and targeted practise. So how come were these players so badly misdiagnosed? Or what changed in them or with the coaching team?

  • Comment 20, posted at 21.12.10 09:46:09 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • smit at loosehead for the boks>???

    In front of beast and Guthro?

    Whew! Big call….Sa player of the year and Beast part of a front row that outscrummed the poms?

    I think sentimentality getting the better of a few fans!!

  • Comment 21, posted at 21.12.10 09:48:12 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 16) :
    Can I have a go?

    Must have been a hair-raising ride! :mrgreen:

    Pass the wine…

  • Comment 22, posted at 21.12.10 09:51:57 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 17) : Nah, according to Hershell the money in cricket is very far from shabby these days.

  • Comment 23, posted at 21.12.10 09:53:29 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
    Administrator
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 23) :

    I also reckon it nust be good…for Minki to hang out with so many cricketers – they must have some bucks to entertain the blonde..

  • Comment 24, posted at 21.12.10 09:56:21 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 22) : Lets not mention wine today.please

  • Comment 25, posted at 21.12.10 09:56:38 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 24) : Also all you need is an IPL contract and you are good.Minki minki minki

  • Comment 26, posted at 21.12.10 09:59:00 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 22) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 27, posted at 21.12.10 10:04:00 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 26) : Settle Down Clayton . . . You know you need an R8 before you`re allowed to talk to Minki :razz:

  • Comment 28, posted at 21.12.10 10:04:41 by Original Champion Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 23) : Oh ja, forgot about the 20/20 stuff. :smile:

  • Comment 29, posted at 21.12.10 10:05:22 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 24) : @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 26) : Are you guys suggesting that there are women out there who would marry men only for the money? :shock: ;-) :twisted: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 30, posted at 21.12.10 10:06:20 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • If Minki came calling I’d certainly hope I had a R8. To make a quick getaway. :twisted:

  • Comment 31, posted at 21.12.10 10:08:34 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @Original Champion (Comment 28) : That and a massive chin, you mos know how she marries bigger money and then still plays hide with wicket with biff

  • Comment 32, posted at 21.12.10 10:19:59 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
    Administrator
    Clayton(PJLD)Team captain
     
  • Reckon she can make a millionaire out of any billionaire…

  • Comment 33, posted at 21.12.10 10:26:32 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • Time for some xmas (corny) jokes.

    Did you hear about the two ships that collided at sea? One was carrying red paint and the other was carrying blue paint. All the sailors ended up being marooned.

  • Comment 34, posted at 21.12.10 10:36:26 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • What did the inflatable teacher at the inflatable school say to the inflatable child caught holding a pin?
    You let me down, you let your friends down, you let your school down but most of all… you let yourself down.

  • Comment 35, posted at 21.12.10 10:37:41 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • A woman walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre…
    So the barman gives her one.

  • Comment 36, posted at 21.12.10 10:42:43 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • How many ears has Captain Kirk got?
    Three: the left ear, the right ear, and the final front ear.

  • Comment 37, posted at 21.12.10 10:44:21 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 37) : :shock:

  • Comment 38, posted at 21.12.10 10:45:38 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
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  • On the news just now – Kallis was not drunk – yeah right, just like Skinstad was as sober as a judge (exclude Motata here) when he T-boned his jammy.

  • Comment 39, posted at 21.12.10 10:46:37 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 38) : Not a star trek fan? :smile:

  • Comment 40, posted at 21.12.10 10:47:07 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 40) :

    hehe it was more at the over all corniness of all the jokes :P but keep them coming :twisted:

  • Comment 41, posted at 21.12.10 10:48:32 by Zibbie Reply
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  • What do you call a bull asleep on the ground? …

    A bulldozer.

  • Comment 42, posted at 21.12.10 10:56:17 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 41) : Yip, they’re only allowed at xmas. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 43, posted at 21.12.10 10:56:49 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 42) :

    and a female bull…a bulldaisy :mrgreen:

  • Comment 44, posted at 21.12.10 10:57:59 by Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • Please,can we focus on the article..and not waste valuable comment space with these poor jokes..!! ..lol ;-) hope beast stays at the tank,be a sad day when he leaves

  • Comment 45, posted at 21.12.10 10:58:26 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Why did the baker get a shock? …

    Because he stood on a bun and a currant ran up his leg.

  • Comment 46, posted at 21.12.10 10:58:49 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice-Cool CC Champ 2010 (Comment 44) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 47, posted at 21.12.10 11:00:09 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 47) :

    There is a thread up for you!

  • Comment 48, posted at 21.12.10 11:02:50 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice (Comment 48) : Cool. :smile:

  • Comment 49, posted at 21.12.10 11:03:44 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • Perhaps we should then go after jc janse v rensburg..hehe

  • Comment 50, posted at 21.12.10 11:03:55 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Okay so if the well coached Beast decides to throw his lot in with the Lions I feel that the Sharks must make it a package deal ie he must take his younger brother with him and let him gain the advantage of the Lions junior coaching structures. I see no need for the Sharks academy to invest any further money on him if he too will fall for the lure of the mighty (shady, in this case) dollar.

  • Comment 51, posted at 21.12.10 11:15:12 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • Def a very shady dollar…

  • Comment 52, posted at 21.12.10 11:25:31 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • The power of the crooked rand in sa rugby..

  • Comment 53, posted at 21.12.10 11:26:44 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • BTW Big Fish – nice article.

  • Comment 54, posted at 21.12.10 13:21:52 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 8) : What was the real story for Campo being cast aside anyhow, seemed to me to have all the goods for a backline coach. Secondly then, if he is that good then why is he coaching Northwood Boys’ High and not at some other union?

  • Comment 55, posted at 21.12.10 20:34:37 by neilster Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • guys its sad to say but i think its time to start with life withot the beast in sharks colours.

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.12.10 10:44:59 by skull Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • you cannot blame the coaching structures for the departure of rory frans or ruan. all blame should be levelled at the players themselves. frans thinks he is god almighty, ruan has poor self confidence and rory thinks he knows better than everyone else.

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.12.10 14:33:22 by try time Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • as for beast, he wants to be a shark, but he has some off field problems that the lions contract sorts out. so it will be sad to see him go (if he goes) but he still will be a class bok player.

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.12.10 14:36:03 by try time Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • Yes,all we can do is to wait and see what the outcome of the beast saga will be

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.12.10 14:47:50 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Yes,all we can do is to wait and see what the outcome of the beast saga is

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.12.10 14:48:22 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Yes,all we can do is to wait and see what the outcome of the beast saga are

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.12.10 15:37:51 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • Yes, all we can do is wait and see what the outcomes of the beast saga are

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.12.10 15:47:05 by Pablo Dinero Reply

    Pablo DineroCurrie Cup player
     
  • Ditto that… :lol:

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.12.10 15:48:45 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • Copy that.

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.12.10 15:51:22 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • You cab say THAT again

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.12.10 15:51:52 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice (Comment 63) : Wat se jy drol?

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.12.10 15:52:06 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @klempie (Comment 66) :
    all we can do is wait and see what the outcomes of the beast saga are

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.12.10 15:54:20 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice (Comment 67) : No. I meant, “what’s up?” :roll:

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.12.10 15:55:36 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • So we are in agreement… :idea:

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.12.10 15:56:11 by Pablo Dinero Reply

    Pablo DineroCurrie Cup player
     
  • Ja, al dat ons kan doen is wag en sien vat die outkoms van die bees verhaal is

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.12.10 15:57:50 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 70) : “al wat ons kan doen”

    Bliksemse rooinekke. :roll:

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.12.10 15:59:47 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • Sí, todo lo que podemos hacer es esperar y ver cuáles son los resultados de la saga Beast.

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.12.10 16:02:00 by Pablo Dinero Reply

    Pablo DineroCurrie Cup player
     
  • @klempie (Comment 71) :
    I gave it my best shot coach!

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.12.10 16:03:03 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 73) : OK, OK. Goed so. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.12.10 16:05:32 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • @Pablo Dinero (Comment 72) :
    I can’t compete with that! :lol:

    @klempie (Comment 74) :
    Dankie Oom.

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.12.10 16:24:04 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 75) : :lol: You could always use google translate… For example.. Da, tot ce putem face este s? a?tept?m ?i s? vedem ce rezultate din saga fiarei sunt

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.12.10 16:28:22 by Pablo Dinero Reply

    Pablo DineroCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 75) : He’s got me too. LOL

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.12.10 16:28:31 by klempie Reply

    klempieTeam captain
     
  • Ok damn, doesnt accept certain characters…

  • Comment 78, posted at 22.12.10 16:30:09 by Pablo Dinero Reply

    Pablo DineroCurrie Cup player
     
  • all we can do is wait and see what the outcomes of the beast saga are

  • Comment 79, posted at 22.12.10 16:31:08 by rekinek Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 70) :

    is n beast nie meer n ondier nie ? beauty and the beast het in afrikaans oetlief en die ondier geword ???

  • Comment 80, posted at 22.12.10 18:23:13 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 80) :
    That’s so far above my head its not even funny. :lol:

  • Comment 81, posted at 22.12.10 18:44:18 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • yes just wait and c just hope he comes to his sences and stays with the SHARKS

  • Comment 82, posted at 22.12.10 20:30:09 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • @Pablo Dinero (Comment 72) :

    Got that one :mrgreen:
    Sí, eso es todo lo que podemos hacer a mi amigo :cool:

  • Comment 83, posted at 22.12.10 20:39:46 by chaz Reply

    ChazTeam captain
     
  • Lol

  • Comment 84, posted at 22.12.10 20:50:41 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 80) : oetlief? :?:

    Maybe skoonlief? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 85, posted at 22.12.10 23:45:08 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 85) :
    dalk SOETLIEF?? :lol:

  • Comment 86, posted at 23.12.10 08:19:17 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 85) :

    soetlief skoonlief .. they wanted to make mother n law sound better :P

  • Comment 87, posted at 23.12.10 08:37:47 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Skoonlief en die ondier – that’s the official title. :smile:

  • Comment 88, posted at 23.12.10 09:55:19 by McLovin Reply

    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 88) :

    oh sorry had it wrong then :P

    skoonlief .. sounds like a movie starring ge korsten ?

  • Comment 89, posted at 23.12.10 10:01:43 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 89) : Close enough. :mrgreen:

    Gé was a real liefling. ;-) :smile:

  • Comment 90, posted at 23.12.10 10:13:13 by McLovin Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 89) :
    Hey Zibbie
    I saw somewhere that you had a problem with my suggestion that if Beast goes to the Lions then it would make sense for his brother to go with him. Why?

  • Comment 91, posted at 23.12.10 10:42:37 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 91) :

    You wanna figt?? :lol:

  • Comment 92, posted at 23.12.10 10:54:11 by Ice Reply
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  • @Ice (Comment 92) :
    Neverrrr, but I wouldn’t mind knowing why Zibbie would moan about my brainwave to someone else but not to me.

  • Comment 93, posted at 23.12.10 11:00:20 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 93) :

    :mrgreen:

  • Comment 94, posted at 23.12.10 11:11:17 by Ice Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 91) :

    well its not nice wanting to throw out the whole lot because of one guys none conformed decision …

    what you gonna say when beast stays ? ‘dont worry buddy we never doubted you for a moment…..’ ??

    and why arent you directing your comments at beast but at a rugby website :P

  • Comment 95, posted at 23.12.10 11:42:49 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 95) :

    This was previously written when I first saw your comment on the other thread.

    Whats wrong or unfair with that. The article was about adding value to players – this was clearly done by the Sharks in Beasts case and the chances are pretty good that the same will apply in his brothers case. The chances are also pretty good that the younger boet will follow Beast if he encourages him to. Its in view of that that I say cut him loose with Beast and let the Lions do the developing.
    Surely you have confidence in your development / age group structures to do a sterling job with you the younger Beast.

    BTW I dont doubt for a second that Beast wants to play his rugby at the Sharks but is probably unable to -for whatever reason. It changes nothing on my view that if he goes then it would not be in the Sharks best interests to develop his brothers career any further.

  • Comment 96, posted at 23.12.10 11:56:29 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 95) :
    “and why arent you directing your comments at beast but at a rugby website” ???????? :?: Sorry I dont understand.

  • Comment 97, posted at 23.12.10 12:02:57 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 96) :

    but surely they are not the same person ? the Ndungane’s doesnt play for the same team .. ? they are not joined on the hip are they ??

  • Comment 98, posted at 23.12.10 12:06:41 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 97) :

    you where unhappy about me not directing my comments at you .. or discussing what i had to say with you ..

    but you have things to say about the beast and his younger brother .. why dont you tell them that personal … ?

  • Comment 99, posted at 23.12.10 12:09:37 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 98) :
    No they are not the same people, one has been developed at the Sharks, the other is hoping to be developed at the Sharks -both from a formative base. Surely you can see the problem that the Sharks may experience if Boetie Beast shows as much promise and your Gumede friend decides he too must be made a ridiculous offer – the temptation to accept will be so much greater if his brother is already at the Lions and if the same brother puts pressure on him to move across. I also think Beast will be happier with his family around him.

    Re the Ndugane twins – they were already “developed” rugby players – totally different scenario.

  • Comment 100, posted at 23.12.10 12:26:32 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 99) :
    This thread deals specifically about coaching, Beast and Rory were highlighted in the article. I posted a comment about coaching on the thread, the appropriate place. – there was no malice to Beast or his brother (you obviously read it differently) but there is plenty of “whats best for the Sharks”
    in my comments.

  • Comment 101, posted at 23.12.10 12:42:53 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 100) :

    thats why you are supposed to pay a transfer fee .. to pay for the development the team you buy the player from has done ..

    but … i dont want to fight .

  • Comment 102, posted at 23.12.10 14:53:37 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 102) :
    Thats another reason why you should be glad to take young beast now before any transfer fee is payable.

    Hey I dont want to fight either, as I posted somewhere else…

    “And in true 60’s tradition, courtesy of The Youngbloods,

    *Come on people now
    smile on your brother
    everybody get together
    and try to love one another right now”

    Please.”

  • Comment 103, posted at 23.12.10 16:09:28 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 84) : :mrgreen: ;-)

  • Comment 104, posted at 23.12.10 16:59:22 by chaz Reply

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