The list of players deemed “not quite good enough” to play in Durban, but just fine to run out in Lions colours, has grown a bit longer. Various sources report today that Andre Pretorius will again play for the Lions in 2011.
Pretorius, who has played most of his senior rugby for the Lions, left them to join the Western Force in Australia last year, before suffering just the latest in a string of crippling injuries when he pulled his hamstring before the start of the 2010 Super 14. He was released by the Perth outfit and managed to work his way back to fitness together with the dedicated Sharks medical team, before making a few appearances for the Sharks Currie Cup side late last year. The coaching staff (quite rightly) felt that he hadn’t really had the desired impact and with the influx of Jacques-Louis Potgieter, Meyer Bosman and Conrad Hoffman, all of whom can support Pat Lambie as flyhalf options, Pretorius was not offered a contract for the upcoming Super 15.
In an off-season raid that has seen the Lions fail to sign any big-name Sharks players (Beast Mtawarira being their most recent loss, although we’ll admit they came closer than we’d like), the cash-flush Joburgers have been only too keen to pounce on any cast-offs from the Sharks squad, including Pat Cilliers (third choice loosehead prop), Mike Rhodes (third choice blindside flank) and Rory Kockott (third choice scrumhalf). While they continue to crow in the press about the imminent signing of “big names” such as Butch James and Francois Steyn, it looks more like it’s players of the calibre of Pretorius who are the only ones prepared to make Johannesburg their home for the upcoming season.
One has to feel a little for one of the few truly gifted players in the current Lions set up, flyhalf Elton Jantjes, who will now have not one, but two of the worst possible tutors in the game when it comes to learning Big Match Temperament – Pretorius and the notoriously inconsistent Carlos Spencer.
I wonder if he will get his old treatment table back? Or is that one already reserved for Butch?
Great heading Rob..
I don’t personally know any of the players or wether they may have offended you in any way Rob,but as a lover of rugby i thought Cilliers and Kockett in particular, always gave their all in a Sharks jersey.To refer to them now as “sloppy seconds” i guess says more about your true estimation of anyone that dares to leave the Sharks rather than the players ability.Take a breath and leave the bile for something more deserving.
What’s the news on butch?
@wade (Comment 3) : it’s just an expression mate. The key here is that Pat and Rory were both deemed surplus to requirements in Durbs. I have nothing personal against either player – in fact, I quite like both of them.
Well i really don’t care if old pretoors goes they can hv him back i was never a fan of his from the start and black and white was nt his colour at all red was so let him go with a fast move it opens space for the young one now what i do have a problem with is FS
and not to get a contarct for the 1st S15 tell us a lot
The Lions are obviously having a bit of a shock realising that a briefcase full of money is only good enough when you actually have a half decent team.
Players have to either be contractless, or way down the pecking order elsewhere to want to go to that place.
Money can buy a lot but not everything. Pride (pun not intended) is one thing it can’t buy. Not many top players would agree to play for money knowing that they will lose week after week.
Jeez, Lions won`t like the tone of this article.
But I can`t say I`ll shed too many tears for Mr P. Apart from his injury concerns, I still fear the day he`s gonna start running from his own goal area again!
ouch!
@bergshark (Comment 4) : In the articles about Butch wanting to come home a lot of them gloss over the important bit and some even leave it out. “at the end of his english contract this season”
Butch will not play any Superrugby before June if any IMO.
@Original Champion (Comment 8) : well, there are more than enough sites out there that will find a pro-Lions way to spin this one. I don’t see why I should
@walter van Lions World (Comment 9) :
@KSA Shark © (Comment 10) : That`s what I saw as well. Butch will only join them towards the end of the super rugby tournament.
Wonder what the fixtures looks like . .. I`d hate for the Sharks to play against one of my favourite flyhalves!
So is butch joining the lions now?
Then the sharks will have money to go after frans steyn when his french contract is up (his rugby is regressing over there ,I think :_( )
We still thin @sh
We also thin @strong ball-carrier @flank..need one more player to go with alberts and deysel..rotation policy
@bergshark (Comment 14) : No, but he is on their wishlist.
@walter van Lions World (Comment 9) :
NOW LEAVE OUR PLAYERS ALONE YOU NEVER GOT WHAT U WANTED AND IT GOT YOU NO WHERE
@bergshark (Comment 16) : with McLeod, Hoffman and Tian Meyer?
@KSA Shark © (Comment 18) : Wish list that i hope has stop at beast we can still use old butchie he still has alot of mmm in those bones and legs of his
Good riddance
@chaz (Comment 19) : relax, for goodness sake. Walter is one of the good guys!
Jeez chaz. Take a frikking pill already. Get to know people before you attack them. It’s in the rules.
@robdylan: yes we still thin @sh (when it comes to proven ability)
@robdylan: the good guys wear black_and_white
@robdylan (Comment 23) :
not attacking him and if its looks that way i’m sorry i know he is one of the good guys just had to get it my chest then at least he can carry the story over if i had never mind lets just let it be the story is over and we hv the best in our hands 
@chaz (Comment 26) : posting all in capitals is shouting… you might not think it comes across as an attack but it does to everybody else reading it.
@walter van Lions World (Comment 9) : ok sorry Walter i didn’t mean to lash out on you it the top gun in ur team sorry
gee i’m in the sorry zone today
@chaz:
@robdylan (Comment 27) : ok got it
@bergshark (Comment 29) : eish i can never ever just keep my mouth shut bvut thats what happens when i’m all work up
@chaz: your heart is in the right place..just don’t type in capital letters
@chaz: also once got taken on for typing in capital letters (even though I didn’t mean to convey that I was shouting ..)
@bergshark (Comment 32) : i was commenting on the other thread 4 beast and left the caps lock on and didn’t look until i had pressed submit
but its ok i can take it
@ROB : Really having a go at the Lions there you…… I love it
Hear that Zibbie / Whindy
@robdylan (Comment 5) : we know, but the title seem somewhat harsh.
Looks like you’re having a go at the Lions managements and poor players just ended in the middle.
@SharksRTB (Comment 35) : morning my friend how are you long time no hear
in a nice way i meant
@chaz (Comment 28) : Don’t worry I can take it, I’m thick skinned!
I was never that convinced about having Pretorius so will not miss him too much. Liked Kockott but professionally I think that Sharks got out of him as much as they could so not too worried about his departure either.
Pity about Cilliers and Rhodes though.
@walter van Lions World (Comment 39) :
thanks my friend
@rekinek (Comment 40) : yep it hart sore to hv seen pat go
@chaz (Comment 37) : Very well. Back at work after spending some time in KZN. Some angry looking avatar you got there? Did this angry shark have anything to do with your CAPSLOCK comment? Heard about this news down in KZN, but until now, I only caught up with it all.
What a huge relief!
@rekinek (Comment 36) : it’s true – that’s exactly what happened. But I do reserve the right to have a go at the Lions management. Unreservedly.
@walter van Lions World (Comment 39) : you’ve been in this game long enough
Real men blog
@SharksRTB (Comment 43) : no it was on before it was for the snoils and just to be aware of the sharks they won’t give up even if its cost a fight to dealth
@bergshark (Comment 46) : and ladys to
@SharksRTB (Comment 43) : why do you like it its great don’t you think after evrything that has been going on
@robdylan (Comment 45) : I only lose it when people say our management is competent! LOL!
@walter van Lions World (Comment 50) : we are all just humans my lions friend
@walter van Lions World (Comment 50) : you’ll never see that written here!
@robdylan (Comment 52) :
@walter van Lions World (Comment 50) :
@SharksRTB (Comment 35) :
soon we gonna start sounding like mike scutte .. you win some you loose some
@Zibbie (Comment 55) : you guys are more like “you lose some, then you lose some”
@robdylan (Comment 56) : -thanks for the sharks jersey link
mine are on their way
i called the sneakers head office in pine town and asked them about their jerseys , and was told it is exactly the same you will but at the tank
they obviously the supplier , so thanks boet
Well to be honest, I can see why the Lions are trying to sign some big names. Afterall the big names will attract more spectators. But they should rather not follow the example set by the Sharks recruitment agency. I might be a proud Shark supporter but I’m not blind to their faults. The unions should get their acts together and start doing things profesionally.
@Farlington: and so should the weepee (mujati and fourie ..)
But now lions by the sound of things are going after bekker,jdj and vermeulen..aren’t all those players still legally contracted by the weepee?
@bergshark (Comment 60) : It does not seem like a contract carries much weight anymore. Besides, WP has a fairly wealthy “investor” who could always match any offer made by the Lions.
Truth be told,both messrs gumede and rupert can do much better with their gazillions ..
@Farlington (Comment 61) : as have the sharks, i wonder the PRICE he loves his sharks
Rupert is like a biilionaire,though..maybe we can entice patrice motsepe..but I ve heard he is a bulls fan
@bergshark (Comment 64) : rupert is WP
surely someone has the stats for who bought whom from where for the last 2 years. i am sure every club,university,province and franchise have poached or headhunted. to say the likes of the sharks players are “sloppy” is a bit the below the belt. i am also sure that in previous blogs the likes of rhodes,cilliers,kockett have been praised for their efforts for the sharks, so the heading is a bit contradictory
@sharks_lover: see comment161 and 162
@prgdad: yes,everyone headhunts/poach..even the cheetahs!
@prgdad (Comment 66) : would you guys feel better if I changed the title to “leftovers”? Seems the “sloppy seconds” thing has people up in arms…
It was actually a reference to Pretorius, more so than Rhodes/Cilliers/Kockott
@robdylan (Comment 69) : Rob I’ve got to say that I’ve been a big fan of both Carlos Spencer and Andre Pretorius for many years and happen to think that any younger no.10 could learn tons from these 2 exceptionally talented old guns. Spencer played an instrumental part in all 3 Blues super rugby titles and his 2003 season was one of the best by any individual player ever. Pretorius was a stand alone shining star in many a Lions S14 campaigns. Since I’m a bit of a Robdylan fan as well, I can’t exactly hate you for that closing paragraph. Nevertheless interesting comment about BMT – so you believe BMT can be taught?
@beet (Comment 70) : well – I believe that two players notorious for their flakiness on the field are hardly the kind of mentors that a guy like Jantjies – himself a little temperamental needs.
It’s all just opinions, though.
@robdylan (Comment 71) : Ya I understand about the opinion bit. Here’s a different opinion. I remember watching Wimbledon a few years ago and hearing either Becker or Navratilova say that no matter how many hours of training a young pro tennis player put in, no amount of preparation could ever equip him to deal with the situation he’d be in when trying to close out an important tight match. Just a suggestion that BMT is something a player develops on his own and can’t be taught or simulated on the training ground.
@Robdylan ‘the notoriously inconsistent Carlos Spencer.’
As a so called journalist you should know that King Carlos is retired as a player and that Elton is the Lions first choice flyhalf who will be backed up by Butch and Francis. As for Lambie well he will find himself back at fullback because it is well known that JLP will fill the flyhalf position – check the fine print in his contract.
@RL (Comment 73) : Correction. Lambie will move to 12.
@Original Champion (Comment 74) : The Sharks have real problems don’t they.
JLP was promised the 10 jersey and that is why he left the Bulls – then they promised Bosman the 12 jersey making it easy for him to leave the Cheatahs where he was doing just great as their first choice 12 – now what to do about Lambie play him at 10 or 12 and create a very unhappy situation for two players. Plum will have no choice but to move Lambie back to where he belongs, 15.
And people (Robdylan) say that he was screwed around by Divvy when he was moved to 15 to make place for a real 10.
I cannot wait to see Lambie run out wearing 15 on his back.
@RL (Comment 73) : As much as I’d love for Rob to rewrite his last paragraph, with regards to King Carlos he did state “tutor” which is not necessarily a player.
And you’d be better off referring to Rob as a so called clairvoyant not journalist if you want him to state that Butch and/or Frans will be part of the Lions setup. Not even Kevin de Klerk and Co would be prepared to commit to this (unlikelihood).
@RL (Comment 75) : and you know all this for a fact? rather wait and see what happens, my bet is that lambie will stay at flyhalf
@robdylan (Comment 20) :
Is Tian Meyer back with the Sharks again?
@JustPlainSHARK (Comment 78) :
Never mind……got the Meyer-thread
@RL (Comment 75) : you honestly think the Sharks are stupid enough to include guarantees about positions into a player’s contract? Go back to talking crap with the rest of your deluded Lion mates.
@RL (Comment 73) :
As a so-called whatever you are you should know that Butch and Frans haven’t signed for the Lions yet.
@beet (Comment 72) :
Interesting question: can one learn BMT.
I think it is something that some are born with, and others have to learn.
Its something I find interesting, because it applies it many fields, not just sport. Its really about how you respond to stress and pressure – especially extreme instances of either.
In my experience, a person’s personality can help or hinder a lot, but any willing student can be taught to better manage their fear, stress and anxiety, via better discipline, use of mental models and techniques like visualisation.
Good example would be a cricketer like Jacques Kallis or Rahul Dravid – not the most fabulously gifted strokeplayers, but disciplined in technique and focused very strongly on each ball they face.
Incidentally, these techniques are being more widely rolled out in the business world today.
My Sharks Backline
9. Mcleod
10. Lambie
11/14. Mvovo and JP
12. Bosman
13. Jacobs
15. Ludik
20. Hoffman
21. JLP
22. Odwa
Will be interesting to see what happens with terblanche
@RL (Comment 75) : Dude I don’t know if you’ve been watching the 2010 currie cup but lambie is much better at 10 than at 15! Well that’s just my opinion. So lambie will start at 10 and if jlp doesn’t like that he can go run back to those silly little blue cows. Lambie is much better than jlp with the sharks type of running rugby so jlp can warm the bench thank you! Do you have facts about the contracts or just speculation?
@RL (Comment 73) : Butch?!?!?!?!
It’s that kind of thinking (where wishes are portraited as done deals) that has lead to your team’s administration being as kak as they are.
RL? geRookte Lion?
@Ben (Comment 83) :
Didn’t you learn anything from this article? If JLP does leave it will probably be to the Lions.
@RL (Comment 75) : I`d rather have too many options than too few. Don`t think I`ll lose much sleep over our flyhalf/centre personnel hehehe
Problem with moving Lambie to fullback ( where I agree he might add good value ) is that you still have to select Stefan somewhere and Adi should get gametime at 13.. .
My Prima Facie opinion is that Bosman should find himself on the bench. But who knows what Plum is thinking?
Things we must remember before we start analysing what the coach is thinking: 1. The S15 comp is a lot longer than the S14 so rotation of guys will be needed otherwise guys will become stale. 2. The form/injuries of players can not be seen in advance and in the modern game is very possible so a good squad is needed. I for one would like to see Terblanche and Smit coming on in the second half of games as experienced impact players- who said impact players have to be youngsters. That experience off the bench cannot be undervalued. Im not a fan of the PDV 60min change all policy but if around that time you have Smit,Botes,Terblanche,Ndungane coming onto the field, that seems a pretty good idea to me. As for Tiaan Meyer- quality ball player much like McCloed-give him time and you will see.
@SheldonK (Comment 87) : Good Thinking.
But I might start with Botes. Secure lots of possession early on, depending on how its going you can sub either Botes or Deysel with Keegan later on.
22 Days to go !
@Original Champion (Comment 88) : I am a fan of Botes as i think he does very well. However, the problem I have is that people say he is good because he secures possession. Thats the biggest problem with SA rugby-we try rely on 1 guy to secure possession when its a whole team responsibility! Keen for rugby season to start- got my season tickets sorted- right on halfway line!
@SheldonK (Comment 89) :
SheldonK you are one of the lucky ones that stay’s in Durban to get to see the games
Some more Lions news:
David de Villiers will join them from FS.
Ian MacDonald is the new forwards coach.
James Kamana joins them from Waikato. He is a wing but could probably feature anywhere from 13 to 15.
Saw a clip on youtube and he doesn`t look half bad. . .
@Original Champion (Comment 91) : if he was that good, he’d be playing for one of the five NZ franchises, don’t ya think?
@robdylan (Comment 92) : LOL they`ve got so many options over there they won`t miss him!
@Original Champion (Comment 93) : kinda sad that the 20th or so best wing in NZ is good enough for the Lions…
Maybe we should see if we can find their 20th or so best outside centre . . .
@Original Champion (Comment 95) : LOLsters
@robdylan (Comment 96) : LOLsters?
David de villiers might not be half a bad signing.
Sharks only 4 lock options it seems with the news of bresler training with vodacom squad(from arti:sean everitt keeping his options open)
@Original Champion (Comment 95) :
Interesting thing that the youtube clip of him doesn’t show him scoring tries? How well does that bode of a wing?
@klempie (Comment 97) : I got it from Worcester Sauce
@Big Fish (Comment 100) :
It also shows a very selfish wing…plenty times he had support, but preferred to go through the defence himself..