Morné

Re-capturing the Pride


Written by Morné Nortier (Morné)

Posted in :Lions, Original Content, Other SA Teams on 16 Feb 2011 at 09:53
Tagged with : ,

There are many reasons why I will keep a very close eye on the Lions this year, and their on-field results won’t be one of them.

Of course positive results in the Super 15 will mean a lot to the union, their fans and South African rugby in general because let’s be honest, it cannot get any worse than last year where they could not buy a win.  But on-field results will mean little in the bigger scheme of things and the route rugby as a professional sport will take in South Africa in years to come.

There is a lot I can say and have said in the past about Robert Gumede. To be honest, supporters do not like politics in rugby or political issues influencing rugby, and for most, the political association Gumede brings to the party might just be a little too close for comfort.

It was for me initially, but over the last couple of weeks I have been slowly converted from being a pessimist to becoming quietly optimistic about what is happening at the union.

For one, Gumede is certainly making the right noises. Noises I certainly like to hear about turning a struggling union into a professionally run organisation.

Noises that suggest that SA Rugby and other associations have in the past merely paid lip-services to transforming the game and how he intends to set this right focussing on development (at schools specifically) but only support merit selections at higher levels.

Noises that suggest that the business aspect of rugby has to be run by business people, and the rugby side by rugby people.

Noises that suggest rugby has to change its approach and become a family affair, event or day out again.

And most importantly, noises that suggest that decisions he will make in his capacity as investor and part-owner in the union will be done without emotion, and only what he and the board believes is best for the game and the union as a business.

Gumede is certainly ambitious if not somewhat fearless, in a recent interview with SA Rugby magazine he mentioned players he still wants to bring to the union include Frans Steyn, Thierry Dusautoir (France), Ma’a Nonu and Richard Kahui.

He also seemingly has no problem challenging institutionalised or entrenched norms in rugby either, with his team’s sponsor a direct competitor to the main competition sponsor in Super rugby.

All of a sudden, the Lions PR machine is working overtime, players are out and about meeting with fans, media releases through traditional and social media networks are sending out positive vibes about everything that is going on at the union to such an extent that you cannot help get caught up in the hype even if you are not a supporter!

So yes, there is a lot of things that will make one apprehensive about Gumede and his association with one of the oldest rugby unions in South Africa, but I for one, am becoming increasingly excited about the future of the Lions.

It remains to be seen how he and the union will handle pressure when results on the field does not go their way, and if he will stick to his promise of not getting personally involved with the ‘rugby matters’ of the union, but to deny that Gumede is possibly the best thing to happen to this union in a decade of mediocrity, would be short-sighted.



205 Comments

  • It is going to be very interesting to see this unfold..

  • Comment 1, posted at 16.02.11 10:05:32 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 1) : Are you ready to do some moderation? ;-)

  • Comment 2, posted at 16.02.11 10:06:54 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 2) :

    Haha.. Lets see how it goes..

  • Comment 3, posted at 16.02.11 10:08:01 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • but seriously…..the sooner Rugby is run as a business everywhere the better it will be for all. Like it or not nobody is going to go back to the amateur days so the unions need to think like business people…..now only is municipalities could be run this way too.

  • Comment 4, posted at 16.02.11 10:08:49 by Pokkel Reply
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  • No seriously if this gets out of hand I do not know, the angle in this is rugby otherwise I would never have considered posting this.

    You’d have to be a fool to discuss issues other than rugby on this topic and I will be the first to pull this if it is the case.

  • Comment 5, posted at 16.02.11 10:10:34 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 5) : Don’t think it will just pulling your leg!

  • Comment 6, posted at 16.02.11 10:14:40 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 6) :

    Nah dude I have all the faith in the world in the local guys and girls on here, otherwise I would never have posted it here first.

  • Comment 7, posted at 16.02.11 10:15:50 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 7) :

    Thank you for an insightful article Morne..

    I reckon it raises valid issues, and you hit the nail on the head when you said we all are feeling the hype.

  • Comment 8, posted at 16.02.11 10:18:25 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Good article Morne. I said a few months back on keo in a post, that Lions would never be a push over this year, also mentioned they could make a play off. Some laughed at me, but I think it could happen buddy. This team has the believe, that says enough. If the mind is right then you on the best start already.

    Thought Gumede would start to think of the big names overseas. Was wondering when he would look to some of the great New Zealand players. Also NH players. Good on him.

    One thing with a franchise with that kinda money, we keep some of our best players playing right here in SA. Wish all the franchises in this country had that kinda money. We would never lose any of our players to NH then. Well some would go cause we have such a huge pool (depth) of rugby players.

    I personally think it is good to see Lions coming back. They a huge union and in our largest city in SA should always have had a great team. Sad to have seen Ellis Park so empty in the past years. I have been to many Bok games there, nothing compares to a Bok game played anywhere in SA like it does at Ellis Park. You just get a unbelievable feeling we will always beat who ever there.

    Gonna be tough to beat the Lions there this year for any team. Their supporters will come out in droves this year.

    Have to say though for Super Rugby. No better place to be than the Tank. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 9, posted at 16.02.11 10:18:46 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • Hopefully the building starts again ,properly this time. Lions have been a disgrace. Should never be so poor with both 65 percent of the economy and population up north. SA rugby needs the Lions to be strong.

  • Comment 10, posted at 16.02.11 10:20:01 by Speed7 Reply

    Speed7Under 21 player
     
  • I have no problem with someone throwing a few rands behind the Lions if it means the quality of the team’s performances improves. A strong Lions team will only add to the benefit of SA rugby. In saying that i have no problem with luring Frans Steyn,Butch James, Big Joe, Jacques Cronje etc back to SA to play. But no foreigners please- rather get the SA boys back!

  • Comment 11, posted at 16.02.11 10:20:10 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 8) :

    ;)

    @Puma (Comment 9) :

    Get your hands on the SA Rugby interview.

    Some funny stuff in there, he mentions how he and Ivan have up till now only used their credit cards, wait until they take the chequebooks out!

    And without saying it in so many words, he reckons rugby will not grow until SA rugby allows private investors to own more than 49.9% in any union.

  • Comment 12, posted at 16.02.11 10:22:32 by Morné Reply
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  • @Speed7 (Comment 10) : Agree Speed, SA does need a strong Lions team.

    This is for sure a new era for Lions and it is very exciting.

    All the best to your team.

  • Comment 13, posted at 16.02.11 10:25:22 by Puma Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 12) : Will get it to read Morne.

    Had a laugh there about the credit cards and cheque book…hehehe.

    Absolutely agree, we need private investors in all our franchises.

    Remember last year speaking about this very topic on keo, with a few there, but of course that few just never could see what I was trying to explain to them. This is exactly it. I had said then and will say it now. WE need private investors in our franchises. That way our rugby players, most of them will stay put in SA.

    Very excited about the Lions. They get it right, think we might see some other big investors looking at other franchises. Good times I feel for our rugby. Good on Gumede.

  • Comment 14, posted at 16.02.11 10:31:46 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • If the Lions are being run well then why is marvellous manie still there?

  • Comment 15, posted at 16.02.11 10:32:25 by war1 Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 12) : its been a long time coming. Private investors will ensure that the players that wants to persue big money in europe can then do so here in SA. The next big thing in rugby, after the super 15, cc, varsity cup should be schools rugby. maybe a national schools league of some type.

  • Comment 16, posted at 16.02.11 10:36:30 by VanWilder Reply

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  • @Puma (Comment 14) : The thing is, unions that make a profit will not want private investment as they would essentially be selling off their profit as well, I don’t expect the Sharks to go this route for that reason. The other thing is long-term sustainability, you can’t pump millions into a venture forever, it has to stand on its own feet eventually and start paying back the investment.

  • Comment 17, posted at 16.02.11 10:37:12 by war1 Reply
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  • Now imagne the benefits to the gautrng province if gumede and ivan had decided to use (their ill-gotten millions??)In social upliftment programs rather than to invest it in a rugby union(who ,though being the economic powerhouse of africa,rugbywise still cannot match the record of the cheetahs in the currie cup)..

  • Comment 18, posted at 16.02.11 10:43:33 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • The comment about the credit card/cheque book smacks of arrogance..sad attitude :-(

  • Comment 19, posted at 16.02.11 10:46:38 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • They are business men. Not social activists. They want to see profit more than trophies.

  • Comment 20, posted at 16.02.11 10:53:06 by Speed7 Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 18) :

    I once heard a great man say; ‘Sport can unite a nation’.

    The plans of the Lions to invest in schools and townships (as mentioned by Gumede) certainly does a lot for social upliftment imo.

  • Comment 21, posted at 16.02.11 10:54:09 by Morné Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 19) : Oh yes, which is one of the reasons why I can’t stand this team.

  • Comment 22, posted at 16.02.11 10:57:21 by war1 Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 18) : It’s their money, they can use it as they see fit.

    Cheetahs have won the Currie Cup 4 times(one shared),
    Lions have won it 9 times(once shared).

    Not sure how the Lions record doesn’t match the cheetahs one?

  • Comment 23, posted at 16.02.11 10:59:35 by Greg Reply

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  • @Morne: sport can unite a nation?? Or gloss over the problems for awhile,perhaps..but cannot cure the underlying problems in a nation..just read the papers and blogs to see how much division sports can cause in a nation..

  • Comment 24, posted at 16.02.11 11:00:37 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • But let’s focus on the rugby playing…

  • Comment 25, posted at 16.02.11 11:01:41 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 19) : Yeah, but it would have been a really funny joke had the sharks new billionaire investors said it :lol:

  • Comment 26, posted at 16.02.11 11:02:12 by Greg Reply

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  • @war1 (Comment 17) : Hello War1,

    The only way we will keep our rugby players in this country is with private investors. NO franchise has that kinda money. We will see far to many of our rugby players heading off to NH if we don’t get that sort of help. The reason we have young players like Frans Steyn in Europe now instead of here in SA.

    Imagine if we only had less than of the top players that we have now in the Sharks squad? Or for that matter, any of the other franchises only had a handful off their best and the rest were playing in Europe? I would then rather just watch rugby in NH. I personally only want to watch the best in SuperRugby and CC. Don’t think we will be filling our stadiums if we never had those players. The way it is going we might not in the future. So to see the standard of play we are seeing now, we here in SH have to keep our players right herer. The only way for that to happen is to have private investors.

    The way forward I think. That is if other franchises can get big investors like Lions have got.

  • Comment 27, posted at 16.02.11 11:02:47 by Puma Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 24) :

    Most certainly can. And it has done it in the past too, as recent as the SWC in 2010…

    @Greg (Comment 26) :

    Indeed!

  • Comment 28, posted at 16.02.11 11:03:37 by Morné Reply
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  • Why do SA need a strong lions team?

  • Comment 29, posted at 16.02.11 11:03:52 by Honey Badger Reply

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  • @Puma (Comment 27) : Sorry had to take a call during that post. So messed up a bit..hehe.

    2nd paragraph should read. Imagine if we only had less than half of the top players.

  • Comment 30, posted at 16.02.11 11:04:36 by Puma Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 23) : I think he means in this century ;) if you think about it, the lions have had a competitive team for most of the history of the currie cup and have still won it only 9 times, sa rugby’s great underachievers?

  • Comment 31, posted at 16.02.11 11:05:00 by war1 Reply
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  • @Greg: would not have been happy if gumede and ivan had invested in the sharks..won’t be happy if abramovich or some other russian oligarch invest in the sharks either..
    Would be happy if the sharks invest in their schools rugby structures some more..

  • Comment 32, posted at 16.02.11 11:05:16 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Puma (Comment 27) : herer = here

  • Comment 33, posted at 16.02.11 11:05:57 by Puma Reply

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  • @morne: for 6 weeks,yes..

  • Comment 34, posted at 16.02.11 11:06:45 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 34) :

    And whose fault is it that it does not last longer?

    The sport (Sport can unite a nation) or the people in charge of running it?

  • Comment 35, posted at 16.02.11 11:08:12 by Morné Reply
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  • @morne: sorry,but I’m not sold on sports being able to “unite” or having to play the role of “unifier” in an abnormal society..

  • Comment 36, posted at 16.02.11 11:09:38 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 36) :

    Each to his own, not my job to sell the concept either.

  • Comment 37, posted at 16.02.11 11:11:13 by Morné Reply
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  • @morne: this post is going nowhere except into the realm of politics.. Rather we stop it: you with your view and me holding onto mine..

  • Comment 38, posted at 16.02.11 11:11:30 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 19) : Not really buddy. It smacks of confidence, confidence of what they have. Reminds me of Luyt and I am enjoying the (we can) confidence coming back to the Lions.

    Just don’t buy the Sharks players though… ;-)

    Why I agree with Morne. All franchises will need big investors. I think it will head that way, more like football in Europe.

  • Comment 39, posted at 16.02.11 11:14:41 by Puma Reply

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  • @Puma (Comment 27) : I hope it does not happen, players go overseas because of a lack of bok opportunities or being messed around by bok management (think pienaar and steyn) and for a change of lifestyle. The currency in europe will always be stronger and the lifestyle will always be different so I don’t think having investors will reverse the player drain. For example if frans steyn went to the lions, it would not be because of money as he earns more in france than what he would at the lions, it would be about a better chance of playing for the national team and the fact that sa will always be home to south africans.

  • Comment 40, posted at 16.02.11 11:15:02 by war1 Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 38) :

    Perhaps in your mind, not mine.

    Where you see a threat, I see an opportunity for the game and its development in South Africa and South African schools which has been terribly neglected in the last decade.

    Where you see arrogance, I see humour.

    What you perceive bad for union, or a union on private ownership, I see the future of the game in order for it to survive.

    My angle is always just the game.

    We might not agree on these issues, and thats perfect, like I said, each to his own.

  • Comment 41, posted at 16.02.11 11:16:19 by Morné Reply
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  • @Puma (Comment 39) : Another point, football clubs in europe are in massive debts, can South African unions really afford that?

  • Comment 42, posted at 16.02.11 11:17:35 by war1 Reply
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  • My problem is not with the money the lions now have,but from where that money comes from..how it was made..

  • Comment 43, posted at 16.02.11 11:18:06 by bergshark Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 11) : i fully agree with getting the sa boys back, even if it meens my team is playing against a player like frans steyn, its better to have him back, so lion …. keep bringing them back. all the best and may the lions team end 2nd on our confrence behind the SHARKS!!

  • Comment 44, posted at 16.02.11 11:18:14 by franshark Reply
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  • Why on earth do the lions want to go for overseas players. Instead of nonu why don’t they go for de jong? Instead of kahui just take frans they have taute as fb cover. As for that french plaer thierry I have no idea who he is and what position he plays. Care to help with that 1??

  • Comment 45, posted at 16.02.11 11:19:31 by Ben Reply
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  • @Morne: do not confuse arrogance for humour..

  • Comment 46, posted at 16.02.11 11:19:52 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 26) :
    Nope, sorry it would still have been tacky.

  • Comment 47, posted at 16.02.11 11:20:51 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 45) : Thierry Dusatoir is the French captain and plays flank.

  • Comment 48, posted at 16.02.11 11:21:23 by war1 Reply
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  • @Ben:captain of france..plays no7

  • Comment 49, posted at 16.02.11 11:21:29 by bergshark Reply

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  • @war1: eish,you got there by 6 seconds.. :-)

  • Comment 50, posted at 16.02.11 11:22:29 by bergshark Reply

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  • I hope the Lions mall the Bulls!

  • Comment 51, posted at 16.02.11 11:22:55 by Ice Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 40) : You have a good point War1. Yes playing for the Boks would also come into it. BUT if they could earn as much here as in Europe. I doubt we would lose as many players, actually we would never lose as many players. Euros/Rands don’t matter just give them the equivent to Euros in Rands.

    We have one of the best lifestyle in the world. The only thing of course is the crime. That will probably make many leave once they start families. While young and playing, if they earn here as much as they could in Europe. They wont leave, to play in a lesser comp over there.

    I am all for private investors. Like I said the way to go. It will happen. I have no doubt. Lions have started something big here. Other top investors will be looking too. Well hope they are.

  • Comment 52, posted at 16.02.11 11:22:59 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @war1 (Comment 48) : @bergshark (Comment 49) : Thanks guys I’m not too fond of the french so don’t really follow them closely. We have a shit load of quality flanks in this country so no need to go overseas there either.

  • Comment 53, posted at 16.02.11 11:23:56 by Ben Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 46) :

    Why do you confuse humour with arrogance?

  • Comment 54, posted at 16.02.11 11:24:29 by Morné Reply
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  • @Puma (Comment 52) : equivent = equivalent

  • Comment 55, posted at 16.02.11 11:24:30 by Puma Reply

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  • @Ice (Comment 51) : hehehe. Me too. ;-)

  • Comment 56, posted at 16.02.11 11:25:10 by Puma Reply

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  • @Ice (Comment 51) : There are already enough malls in joburg ;)

  • Comment 57, posted at 16.02.11 11:26:33 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 57) :

    :lol:

  • Comment 58, posted at 16.02.11 11:26:47 by Morné Reply
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  • @Ice: go the bulls!!! I sometimes think some of the more arrogant bulls fans are actually lions fans who crossed-over to the jukskei (in rugby terms)..can still remember some of their bravado when the lions had a bit of a successful run in 90s..

  • Comment 59, posted at 16.02.11 11:28:30 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Morne: eish ..

  • Comment 60, posted at 16.02.11 11:29:35 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Puma (Comment 52) : But that is irrelevant, the salaries will always be better in europe than here, they also have big investors here than there, figures I have heard is that steyn earns R7.5 million at Racing and the Lions offered Beast R4 million, thats nearly double. We simply cannot compete with overseas clubs.

  • Comment 61, posted at 16.02.11 11:30:55 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 57) : You know what Icy meant :razz:

  • Comment 62, posted at 16.02.11 11:30:57 by Puma Reply

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  • @Puma (Comment 62) : I do, which is why I added the ;)

  • Comment 63, posted at 16.02.11 11:32:28 by war1 Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 61) : just you wait for them to take out those cheque books. ;)

  • Comment 64, posted at 16.02.11 11:33:48 by Ben Reply
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  • MAUL!!!!! :lol: I need retail therapy!! :wink:

  • Comment 65, posted at 16.02.11 11:34:13 by Ice Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 59) : “a bit of a successful run in 90s..”

    Is that arrogance or humour (on your part) :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 66, posted at 16.02.11 11:34:53 by Greg Reply

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  • @war1:7.5 mill (when converted to rands)per season ..quite a nice nest egg already..

  • Comment 67, posted at 16.02.11 11:34:58 by bergshark Reply

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  • @war1 (Comment 61) : If Steyn comes back they will offer him probably the same. Beast was not earning R4 Million at Sharks, so that was attraction for him no doubt. If they had to lure him from Europe they would have matched it. I have no doubt.

    If we don’t get the investors in, watch come 2012 we will lose many top players to NH. Lions probably will not. They gonna attract players bud, somehow we have to go the same route as them. Anyhow I have hope and think we will all go that route with private investors.

  • Comment 68, posted at 16.02.11 11:35:00 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Puma (Comment 68) : Just make sure that whomever invest in the sharks doesn’t have both a credit card and a cheque book, because that would apparently just be arrogant :lol:

  • Comment 69, posted at 16.02.11 11:36:44 by Greg Reply

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  • @war1 (Comment 61) : @Puma (Comment 68) : But in all honesty the lions will be wasting to pay 7 mil a year to steyn when I’m sure any player in SA will gladly sign for the lions for even less money.

  • Comment 70, posted at 16.02.11 11:38:54 by Ben Reply
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  • @Puma: patrice motsepe is a bulls fan,I believe(from an interview I read about him a couple of years ago)..he was asked if he will get involved in rugby(since he is the owner of sundowns),and he said not at present..(Few years ago)he could def match and surpass the money the lions duo or putting on the table.

  • Comment 71, posted at 16.02.11 11:39:45 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Ben (Comment 70) : And we have a lot of players playing in SA that are much better than steyn and I’m sure they will sign if the lions offer them 5mil.

  • Comment 72, posted at 16.02.11 11:41:39 by Ben Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 61) : he earn so much not because they pay so much, its because his first name is Frans(i wish):) and still.. the lions better beat those bulls, even if that the only good thing coming from all this lions racket…

  • Comment 73, posted at 16.02.11 11:42:06 by franshark Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 71) : You think?

  • Comment 74, posted at 16.02.11 11:42:58 by Ben Reply
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  • @Greg:just make sure who ever invests in the sharks did not make their money under questionable circumstances..but I guess sa’s very own “big apple” has the mentality:it doesn’t matter how make it,just as long as you make it..any which way..

  • Comment 75, posted at 16.02.11 11:44:12 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Puma (Comment 68) : The players at the Sharks are getting paid decently, the team is successful, the lifestyle in Durbs is good, the team spirit is good. If we are going to lose so many players why haven’t guys like Beast, Smit, Kanko and JPP left for the big money they were offered?

  • Comment 76, posted at 16.02.11 11:44:18 by war1 Reply
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    war1Super Rugby player
     
  • The reason unions sign high profile players are for two reasons mainly, one, to upskill youngsters in the union and two, as a marketing exercise.

    Van Zyl made it quite clear a couple of years back after the Sharks signed Monty that he was unhappy with the access the union had to him because his role was as much as get numbers through the gates as it was his rugby ability.

    Bob Skinstad the same I reckon.

    Habana for WP the same, Bakkies for the Lions next year, Butch, etc.

    It is all about investing in a player, and investing in rugby terms these days does not always mean investing in the rugby ability alone.

  • Comment 77, posted at 16.02.11 11:45:50 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @I think only rupert and oppenheimer have more money than motsepe..in sa..

  • Comment 78, posted at 16.02.11 11:45:59 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @war1 (Comment 76) : War1, Cause the world cup is this year mate. :???: Watch next year the offers will all be back. I know they have contracts, but those offers will come and come. Just hope we don’t lose any. BUT I am nervous about our Sharks losing players after the wc.

  • Comment 79, posted at 16.02.11 11:46:28 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 77) : Yes you right there Morne, but if those top names don’t deliver, then they will never last at that union. Supporters wont want them otherwise. Supporters want winners, players that deliver. We are ruthless us supporters..haha. We know without our support then nothing will work.

  • Comment 80, posted at 16.02.11 11:50:25 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 75) :

    Dude we can ask the question of every single apparel sponsor in the game too, all made in China under dispicable working conditions only to save a buck or two.

    We can also point fingers at local companies on how they exploit consumers (operators), sometimes illegally through cartels. Dirty money is all around, and gains most of the time ill-gotten with some more than others depending on the individual and what ’cause’ is important to you.

    But that topic does have nothing to do with the game, so I will leave it there.

  • Comment 81, posted at 16.02.11 11:50:31 by Morné Reply
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  • @Puma (Comment 79) :

    I mentioned this to a Bulls supporter recently too…

    Wait for the World Cup to come and go, and their perceived sense of loyalty will be shot to pieces…

  • Comment 82, posted at 16.02.11 11:52:06 by Morné Reply
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  • @Puma (Comment 79) : If they do, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it and on the positive side it would free up places for the younger players to step up into.

  • Comment 83, posted at 16.02.11 11:55:50 by war1 Reply
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  • @Morne:patrick shoo_shiong is listed as being 5 billion strong..self-made billionaire in generic drugs(medicine)..country of origin.. South africa??!

  • Comment 84, posted at 16.02.11 11:56:04 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 82) : Yep, Beast stayed at the sharks for one reason only, he didn’t want to get into a protracted contractual tangle, and end up not playing rugby in the WC leadup.
    Unfortunately for the fans, the money in the sport, while needed, has killed the sense of loyalty.

  • Comment 85, posted at 16.02.11 11:57:42 by Greg Reply

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  • @war1:that’s the attitude :-) there will (should) always be talented youngsters waiting to step-up and fill the void

  • Comment 86, posted at 16.02.11 11:58:23 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 1) : Morne obviously got the out of office email……..

  • Comment 87, posted at 16.02.11 11:59:10 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 85) : Did he tell you that?

  • Comment 88, posted at 16.02.11 12:04:24 by Ben Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 87) : hehehe…he would never do THAT on purpose

  • Comment 89, posted at 16.02.11 12:05:34 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 88) : Yeah, he’s a big mate of mine :lol:
    You seriously think he turned down the kind of money that was being bandied about out of a sense of loyalty?

  • Comment 90, posted at 16.02.11 12:06:09 by Greg Reply

    GregSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Greg (Comment 85) : How sure are you about that? If everything was about the World Cup why did these guys sign 3 year contracts?

  • Comment 91, posted at 16.02.11 12:06:43 by war1 Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 90) : How about Kanko, JPP and Smit? They didn’t even have contracts and stayed.

    I don’t think you can make that statement about the Beast in all honesty.

  • Comment 92, posted at 16.02.11 12:07:59 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 90) : He is not being paid badly at the Sharks

  • Comment 93, posted at 16.02.11 12:08:22 by war1 Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 90) : No he turned it down because he knows money can’t buy happiness. He has seen to many post match interviews with Wickus v Heerden and Ernst Joubert in tears trying to explain why the lost AGAIN.

  • Comment 94, posted at 16.02.11 12:09:48 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 90) : Yes in fact I do believe it was loyalty. The sharks made him!

  • Comment 95, posted at 16.02.11 12:11:04 by Ben Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 90) : I see you have got yourself a new pair of Oakley Antix.

  • Comment 96, posted at 16.02.11 12:11:30 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 92) : All three of them turned down the Lions offer before either the MTN sponsorship or the Gumede buy in were announced. At that stage the offer could not have been as much as the Lions could make now. The difference between the Lions offer, and what the sharks had on the table was not that big.

  • Comment 97, posted at 16.02.11 12:12:00 by Greg Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 96) : You, however, have had a pair for years :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 98, posted at 16.02.11 12:13:47 by Greg Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 97) : You’re going on a road to nowhere now buddy.

  • Comment 99, posted at 16.02.11 12:14:39 by Ben Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 98) : But yes, I do see most things in a distinct shade of red. I am, after all, a Lions supporter

  • Comment 100, posted at 16.02.11 12:15:14 by Greg Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 99) : Maybe. You may believe it was loyalty, and that’s cool. I, however, don’t think so.

  • Comment 101, posted at 16.02.11 12:17:16 by Greg Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 100) : I’ve heard with my own ears keegan daniel say that another team will have to offer him 6 mil plus a car plus a house for him to even think about leaving the sharks. So the sharks must be doing something right!

  • Comment 102, posted at 16.02.11 12:18:10 by Ben Reply
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  • Morne as always the voice of reason !

    Its hilarious to see now Lion threads with more than the measly 10-15 replies ..in years gone by you couldn’t buy a debate or a discussion on any Lions thread on any blog or forum …

    And the really best part is the season hasn’t even started …

    As mentioned in the article supporters and those getting caught up in the hype must not get disheartned at resulots cause lets face it we are not going to be cleaning up ..not yet anyhow.

    There are still at the very least 3-4 Sharks players we need to get on our books :lol:

  • Comment 103, posted at 16.02.11 12:21:01 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Greg (Comment 90) :
    Do you seriously think that, when you are already earning good money, the lure of a lot more money will compensate for having to move to Jozi.

  • Comment 104, posted at 16.02.11 12:21:39 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 94) : @Greg (Comment 101) : @Ben (Comment 99) : Do you guys think there’s a chance that the Beast has entered into some kind of agreement to join the Lions for 2012, sort of like the Cristiano Ronaldo going to Real Madrid but playing 1 last season for M.Utd. Or no chance?

  • Comment 105, posted at 16.02.11 12:22:54 by beet Reply
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  • And not just any car or house ! Lol :-D

  • Comment 106, posted at 16.02.11 12:23:00 by bergshark Reply

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  • @csb (Comment 103) :

    :grin:

    Love your work.

  • Comment 107, posted at 16.02.11 12:23:30 by Morné Reply
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  • @csb:that you coffeeshopbok??

  • Comment 108, posted at 16.02.11 12:25:10 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 59) :

    There are those that will tell you the Lions won the first Super rugby trophy and through that success a foundation was built for the Boks to go on and enjoy success at the WC in 95 thanks ofcourse to the great Kitch Christie.

    Dammit is it Sat yet !!!

  • Comment 109, posted at 16.02.11 12:26:00 by csb Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 107) :

    The old sailor himself.

  • Comment 110, posted at 16.02.11 12:26:18 by Morné Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 102) : Didn’t say for a moment they weren’t doing something right. They must be, if players stay there for more than they could earn elsewhere. He may well have said that, but has it ever been tested?

    I love my job, if I was offered ten times what I currently earn, I would not move, and I stand by that statement until someone actually offers me ten times what I earn.

  • Comment 111, posted at 16.02.11 12:27:36 by Greg Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 98) : still trying to find an online retailer where I can get them. :(

  • Comment 112, posted at 16.02.11 12:27:43 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @beet (Comment 105) : No chance in my books I think he will see his contract out.

  • Comment 113, posted at 16.02.11 12:28:10 by Ben Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 108) :

    Yes Bergie :mrgreen:

    As a show of my eternal optimism.. :cool: I’ll be choosing the Lions on LMS this weekend :razz:

  • Comment 114, posted at 16.02.11 12:28:52 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 82) : Absolutely, think that will be the case next year.

  • Comment 115, posted at 16.02.11 12:29:49 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 112) :

    Try military surplus sites.

  • Comment 116, posted at 16.02.11 12:30:20 by csb Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 107) : For me their most interesting character is going to be John Mitchell. I believe that when he joined the Lions conditions were perfectly suited to his approach – a team that had hit rock bottom, youngsters with a lot to learn etc. Now the dynamics have changed a bit in the Lions camp – like more established outsiders on board + higher expectations. Right now he’s a Dr Jekyll in Jozi. I wonder if the old Mr Hyde that we know exists in there somewhere will surface at some stage this year?

  • Comment 117, posted at 16.02.11 12:30:54 by beet Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 83) : 100% there. That will be a positive our youngsters to come through.

  • Comment 118, posted at 16.02.11 12:31:56 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Greg (Comment 111) :

    I dunno .. I’m not so sure but my personal opnion is that Beast knew he is onto a good thing being with the Sharks.

    And it wouldn’t suprise me in the least if the whole Mapoe saga helped sway him to stay.

  • Comment 119, posted at 16.02.11 12:32:21 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • greetings from Amsterdam… you kids playing nicely?

  • Comment 120, posted at 16.02.11 12:32:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 104) : Absolutely, as evidenced by the number of people in Jhb that have moved here from other areas of the country.

  • Comment 121, posted at 16.02.11 12:32:36 by Greg Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 120) :

    Yes teacher ..now go order me a Koffie Verkeerd please :grin:

  • Comment 122, posted at 16.02.11 12:33:08 by csb Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 111) : You make a very valid point. But what he said aswell is he doesn’t have any reason to move he’s happy at the sharks. But sometimes money talks. And some fall for it more than others.

  • Comment 123, posted at 16.02.11 12:33:11 by Ben Reply
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  • @cbs: and didn’t the sharks play in the 1994 s10 final??that is a lot closer to the 199d wc final than victory in ’93..
    You also seem to (willfully?) Not acknowledge the work ian mac did ..

  • Comment 124, posted at 16.02.11 12:33:57 by bergshark Reply

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  • @beet (Comment 117) : duuude – Was it you asking for the list of newly contracted u19 players?

  • Comment 125, posted at 16.02.11 12:34:20 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 121) :

    As a local it pisses me off them driving around in their 4×4 with Sharks stickers and Province jersey’s bitching and moaning about how kak Joburg is. ;-) ;-) ;-)

  • Comment 126, posted at 16.02.11 12:36:10 by csb Reply

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  • @cbs: how you doing?

  • Comment 127, posted at 16.02.11 12:36:11 by bergshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 120) : hehehe…always ;-)

  • Comment 128, posted at 16.02.11 12:36:21 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 112) : Knock offs at the traffic lights, and a bit of spray paint works for me! Can send you some if you like, any colour you like, even the blue ones which are not yet available in the shops :lol:

  • Comment 129, posted at 16.02.11 12:36:43 by Greg Reply

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  • @beet (Comment 117) :

    Agree, the team assembled is what impresses me most.

    Cannot help but worry about one individual in there still…

    Reynecke.

  • Comment 130, posted at 16.02.11 12:36:55 by Morné Reply
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  • Great article as usual Morné. I don’t want to mention politics, but I think a big money backer like Gumede would do lots more for SA rugby if he spent his billions in the Eastern Cape.

  • Comment 131, posted at 16.02.11 12:37:52 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 121) : How many players that moved to the lions actually got regular 1st team action from the team they moved from? Think about it…

  • Comment 132, posted at 16.02.11 12:38:57 by Ben Reply
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  • @csb (Comment 126) : Some okes just don’t have a choice….they forced to live in Jozi. I work for myself though and I can’t see myself living there even if the money is good.

  • Comment 133, posted at 16.02.11 12:39:38 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 121) :
    Read my question again, I asked how many people who are ALREADY earning good money would move.

  • Comment 134, posted at 16.02.11 12:42:06 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 127) : @bergshark (Comment 124) :

    Good thanks You ?

    Yea you right and I also realize the work done by Mac. It was a culmination of factors the biggest being Christie imho.

  • Comment 135, posted at 16.02.11 12:45:09 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • Can we have that u19 team in an arti sometime?

  • Comment 136, posted at 16.02.11 12:45:16 by bergshark Reply

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  • @csb:kitch christie: 100% win record as bok coach..can’t fault that.
    Glad to hear you doing fine.

  • Comment 137, posted at 16.02.11 12:47:22 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 133) :

    Yea I know Pokkel just having a laugh .. look there are days this city gets to me big time but if you not a lazy ass Joburg can be alot of fun !

    Just a shame we don’t have a ocean ..but for now Emmarentia will have to do :grin:

  • Comment 138, posted at 16.02.11 12:47:43 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Ben (Comment 123) : Add to that the fact that the sharks are doing well, at Currie cup level anyway, and over recent years certainly better than the Lions at Super level. As much as players want to earn decent money, they also want to play for succesful teams, because that enhances their Bok chances.

    Do you think, for example, that Willem Alberts was seriously crap at the Lions, but one season later, with the sharks, and a Currie cup to boot, he is now suddenly good enough for national selection?

  • Comment 139, posted at 16.02.11 12:49:06 by Greg Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 132) :

    Other than Waylon M none ..and even he didn’t feature with the Sharks as much as he use to … but the move has revived him imo.

  • Comment 140, posted at 16.02.11 12:49:36 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • Just one question what happens if all this money and players don’t produce…n there is no progress from the senior team..

  • Comment 141, posted at 16.02.11 12:52:53 by shaniboi Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 134) : All those who could earn even more?

  • Comment 142, posted at 16.02.11 12:53:19 by Greg Reply

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  • @csb (Comment 140) : @Greg (Comment 139) : yeah waylon took a serious slope at the sharks in his last 2 seasons. I agree he is much better now.

    To play for a team that’s always on the front foot really helps and that’s why willem is doing so well. Just look at the games when the sharks are on the backfoot the whole time, kanko can’t do much then so for that reason had kanko played for the lions he might not have been a springbok now. So yes playing for a succesfull team plays a huge factor!

  • Comment 143, posted at 16.02.11 12:54:30 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 143) : On the other hand (Darren), a player who stands out in a losing team can also make a name for himself. Jacques Fourie springs to mind.

  • Comment 144, posted at 16.02.11 12:57:26 by Greg Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 144) : Jacque Fourie is in a class of his own. Darren???

  • Comment 145, posted at 16.02.11 12:59:56 by Ben Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 139) : @Ben (Comment 143) :

    I dunno so much .. The likes of Van Heerden, Jantjes, Januarie and TWG13 all got into the Boks playing for the Lions.
    As for Alberts many a faithful has been calling for him to be a Bok for ages but was being kept out by the likes of Kanko and Spies.

    I watched games where Alberts man alone was taking on the opposition for the Lions so I guess having to fight harder took his game away from being more flash..if that makes sense.

    So in that regard him moving to the Sharks certainly helped him being noticed more.

  • Comment 146, posted at 16.02.11 12:59:56 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @csb (Comment 146) :

    Yup, called Alberts 3 years ago already too, and old Rob here did the same if memory serves…

  • Comment 147, posted at 16.02.11 13:01:24 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Greg (Comment 142) :
    Seems a few, in fact all, the top name rugby players that you guys have approached disprove that thought.

    If people thought that way you would have the all the top earners from the whole country clambering to live or work in Jozi.

    As for myself, I have never lived there but for some reason really enjoy the vibe of the place, much more so in the late 70s and 80s but even now its good to get there every now and then.

  • Comment 148, posted at 16.02.11 13:01:33 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Greg (Comment 139) : I’ve always rated Alberts…way before he joined the Sharks!

  • Comment 149, posted at 16.02.11 13:02:12 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @csb (Comment 146) : I wasn’t targetting the lions by saying if kanko played for them. Just getting the point through that he’s not the same player if he plays from the back foot.

  • Comment 150, posted at 16.02.11 13:03:39 by Ben Reply
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  • How keen was rory on making the trip up to jhb to join the lions?

  • Comment 151, posted at 16.02.11 13:04:38 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Ben: that warren whiteley is a lively and skillful youngster!can’t understand(judging by his performances last season,why he couldn’t get a senior contract at the sharks??)

  • Comment 152, posted at 16.02.11 13:09:02 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 151) :
    Ai and poor Butch, I really feel for him.

  • Comment 153, posted at 16.02.11 13:09:10 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 150) :

    Sorry think we are getting crossed wires here.. I didn’t think you implied that ..

    @bergshark (Comment 151) :

    Very Much nothing like a pink and orange sun set inhanced by the layers of smog to greet you :razz:

  • Comment 154, posted at 16.02.11 13:09:23 by csb Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 149) : Many people did, but yet he only got a callup after a season in durban. Which is kind of the point I was making.

    Yeah, Lions have big money, but money alone is not going to lure the big names. It might get some here, but some will still opt for the lesser money at a union that has a winning track record.

    However, imagine, the Lions finish second in the SA conference, win the playoff game, and make the semi, and then go on to win the Currie cup. How many players will be clamouring to be offered the big money contracts? How many will regret rejecting those offers when they had the chance?

  • Comment 155, posted at 16.02.11 13:09:45 by Greg Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 130) :

    I couldn’t agree more .. one of the final rotten apples that need to fall from the tree..

  • Comment 156, posted at 16.02.11 13:11:22 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Greg (Comment 155) : True…money isn’t everything unless you are only going to play for 2 years and want to stock up!

  • Comment 157, posted at 16.02.11 13:12:09 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 152) :

    Yip Im very pleased that he fell thru your nets ;-)

    I rate him very highly … Once we have trained him good and proper and got him into the Bok squad he can return to the Tank..

  • Comment 158, posted at 16.02.11 13:14:06 by csb Reply

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  • @csb (Comment 154) : Cool :)

  • Comment 159, posted at 16.02.11 13:15:33 by Ben Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 153) :

    I’m sure his wallet will feel for him too ..

    Durbs is in any case alot closer to Joburg than Bath :lol:

  • Comment 160, posted at 16.02.11 13:15:39 by csb Reply

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  • @Greg: and what if the bulls 3-peat in the s15?

  • Comment 161, posted at 16.02.11 13:16:28 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Greg (Comment 155) :
    Ok, now you are talking.
    But can that money buy success, time will tell.
    I dont think that players that rejected Lions big money offers will feel they lost out if their teams are also doing well. Of course there will be some considering that the Lions seem to have approached every high profile player in the northern and southern hemispheres.

  • Comment 162, posted at 16.02.11 13:17:55 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 152) : Very talented. Guess the sharks couldn’t find a place for him in the long term.

  • Comment 163, posted at 16.02.11 13:18:13 by Ben Reply
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  • @cbs: thanks!(Re: sending whiteley back to the sharks).

  • Comment 164, posted at 16.02.11 13:18:35 by bergshark Reply

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  • @bergshark (Comment 161) : They may well do that, but they won’t be making big money offers to any one, they currently don’t need to.

  • Comment 165, posted at 16.02.11 13:24:05 by Greg Reply

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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 162) : If their team still does well, but if not, they could end up being disappointed!

  • Comment 166, posted at 16.02.11 13:29:48 by Greg Reply

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  • Gumede is probably the first in a wave of private rugby investors: other unions will need to compete with both him and the NH in the future. I have long said that I see this as a positive.

    Money alone will not make the Lions successful. All the other unions (including the Sharks under Putt) had money but couldn’t attract players (for various reasons – mainly performance and vibe) at one time. Lions still have to show more than some dollars.

    Loyalty and team excellence has a big part in recruitment – Beast may have stayed to continue playing in an all-Bok pack as opposed to a no-name one.

    Most professionals can get 40% on their current salary by moving to Gauteng – but they don’t. Make of that what you will.

  • Comment 167, posted at 16.02.11 13:38:14 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 167) :

    I know many are not privy to this, but there has been (imo at least) a complete about turn in everything about this union, especially their drive in focussing on fans and making the Lions brand a family brand.

    I have said as early as last year the Lions are the most pathetic union to work with from a PR point of view, in a matter of months, they have turned that around completely and are second only to the Bulls (imo) having embraced the web, social networks and traditional avenues of marketing and PR lines to up their game.

    And they are doing a damn fine job at it too.

  • Comment 168, posted at 16.02.11 13:42:36 by Morné Reply
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  • And they managed to shut Manie up, which is massive!!! ;)

    (love you Manie!)

  • Comment 169, posted at 16.02.11 13:43:46 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @csb (Comment 160) :
    Will help him buy one of those big 4x4s with the Sharks stcikers.
    Hopefully some of that moola will make its way to KZN.

  • Comment 170, posted at 16.02.11 13:49:12 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Morne:we need reputable businesses and businessmen to invest in our sports teams..not just the first one (or two)who flash around cash ..

  • Comment 171, posted at 16.02.11 13:51:54 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 171) :

    According to who?

    If you dig deep enough you will find dirt on anyone.

  • Comment 172, posted at 16.02.11 13:57:31 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 171) :
    You are on a separate topic here: not a question of whether private money is good for SA rugby or not, but rather on the ethical standards of such investors.

    That is a relevant topic, and I respect (and perhaps share) your views, but that is not an issue that can really be canvassed here, nor do we have enough information to do so.

  • Comment 173, posted at 16.02.11 13:59:27 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • Its always the ones without money that say it never matters.

  • Comment 174, posted at 16.02.11 14:07:46 by Speed7 Reply

    Speed7Under 21 player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 171) :

    Just a quick example, it took me all of 5 minutes to dig up dirt on one of the directors of the Mr Price group of companies, an ANC political activist who in the build up to the Soccer World Cup and awardings of tenders in Durban was embroiled in bitter disputes between rival companies and the awarding of tenders.

    But yes, Fish said it, enough of that, last on that topic from me.

  • Comment 175, posted at 16.02.11 14:10:14 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • From the tick tick tick of your time’s up
    To the yes yes yes of ‘I’ll sell’
    From the fact fact fact of the souless
    To the pact pact pact with hell
    Corruption corruption corruption
    Rules my soul
    Corruption corruption corruption
    Chills my bones

  • Comment 176, posted at 16.02.11 14:16:03 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Greg (Comment 69) :

    hahaha Greg you legend !!!!!

  • Comment 177, posted at 16.02.11 14:23:39 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • Good article this.

    I just wonder why that bergshark is so disgruntled with the Lions equity investors. It is not something new that just happened in October 2010. The Sharks, Bulls and WP have all sold out between 25% and 49% of their rugby companies to equity partners years ago and have for the past 5-10 years been enjoying spending their improving their team.

    I wonder bergshark will write a letter to the Sharks company asking them to end their involvement with the Sharks and have them rather spend all those millions of rands uplifting the people in that very poor province KZN.

    :roll:

  • Comment 178, posted at 16.02.11 14:35:53 by RL Reply

    RLUnder 19 player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 171) : LOL you do not even know the names of those who bought into the Sharks so how do you know that they are ‘reputable’ Maybe they are drug traffickers looking to launder their money from goods sold innocent people right there in Durban.

    :roll:

  • Comment 179, posted at 16.02.11 14:42:26 by RL Reply

    RLUnder 19 player
     
  • Never mind being backed by Transnet/Spoornet at the arse end of Apartheid.

  • Comment 180, posted at 16.02.11 14:50:38 by Speed7 Reply

    Speed7Under 21 player
     
  • Guys, you are not doing Morne justice with the direction of this discussion; he raised som good points and its a shame to let that die.

  • Comment 181, posted at 16.02.11 14:59:33 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • You’re right. Good article.

  • Comment 182, posted at 16.02.11 15:04:30 by Speed7 Reply

    Speed7Under 21 player
     
  • I’m biting my tongue. :roll:

  • Comment 183, posted at 16.02.11 15:08:28 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • The point is: It’s hard to make a comeback, if you’ve never been anywhere… :twisted:

  • Comment 184, posted at 16.02.11 15:08:29 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Speed7 (Comment 180) :

    I Suggest you read the rules and don’t bother replying to this comment.

  • Comment 185, posted at 16.02.11 15:11:05 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Huh Ice ? What do you mean ?

  • Comment 186, posted at 16.02.11 15:11:46 by Speed7 Reply

    Speed7Under 21 player
     
  • What did I say that’s so bad/worse than anything anyone else said ? Nerve touched ?

  • Comment 187, posted at 16.02.11 15:15:25 by Speed7 Reply

    Speed7Under 21 player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 167) : You make some good points here. The Lions have struggled to hold on to their top players for years now be it Big Joe, Schalk Brits, Jacque Fourie. I believed that the problem with the Union has been a behind the scenes one and that if they ever hope to have sustainable success they’d have to address this issue as a priority. Further evidence was Frans Ludeke. He was a failure as the Lions coach and a few years on he’s captured 2 S/R titles.
    I also recall our difficulties under Putt when I actually mistakenly thought we’d run out of money coz like you mentioned we couldn’t attract good players to revive the team.

  • Comment 188, posted at 16.02.11 15:17:51 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 125) : Yes Rob always. I’d love to know who we’ve signed up for the u19s.

  • Comment 189, posted at 16.02.11 15:19:06 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Speed7 (Comment 187) :

    You have the arse end of it ..seriously though u should make an effort and mind your tone in some of your posts ..it spoils it for the rest of us …

    Now please don’t take this article into a direction it was not meant for.

  • Comment 190, posted at 16.02.11 15:23:07 by csb Reply

    csbSuper Rugby player
     
  • Proper nerve touch. Good luck on Saturday. Hope your team lives up to your high expectations. Over and out.

  • Comment 191, posted at 16.02.11 15:27:22 by Speed7 Reply

    Speed7Under 21 player
     
  • @Ben:yes,seeing whiteley play for lions last year,I had to ask myself:why was he let go????he seemed like the perfect replacement and youngster to keep kanko on his toes ..also,perfect sub for kanko (same type player)if injuries or bok call-up.just left shaking my head :-(
    But then,they also let mike rhodes go :-( ..that was bewildering!

  • Comment 192, posted at 16.02.11 15:57:36 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @beet: good afternoon,sir.yes,would also like to know who was signed up for u19s (@robdylan:just keep it secret..perhaps only circulate it amongst us true sharks fans..don’t want dick muir and co at lions to poach.. )

  • Comment 193, posted at 16.02.11 16:00:18 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 193) : :grin:

  • Comment 194, posted at 16.02.11 16:06:24 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA SHARK : .. Would like to know how much of their time the lions “brains” spend on sharksworld..:-D

  • Comment 195, posted at 16.02.11 16:09:52 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 195) :

    Hehehhehehehehhee

  • Comment 196, posted at 16.02.11 16:15:47 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • OK. My contribution to the discussion, for what it’s worth, is that money may buy talent, but it doesn’t necessarily buy class.
    Private investors, whether politically correct, ethically kosher or otherwise, would appear to be a necessary evil if one is to look at the staggering change in premier league soccer in the UK over the last decade or so. Has it made the sport “better”? I would argue that it has not, but it has changed it nonetheless in that it has dragged clubs screaming and kicking out of an almost Dickensian fog and into the 21st Century, where profits matter more than people and anything can be bought and paid for if the price is right.
    This brand of “privatisation” in professional sport is, as Morne so rightly put it, based on clear and well-defined business models. This is not charity, it’s business. Money goes in in the expectation that more money will come out. It’s all about return on investment (ROI). The David Beckhams of this world are not traded from one wealthy club to another because investors like a pretty face, they expect big names to earn them even bigger money.
    What Gumede is doing at the Lions is spending money to make money. He’s doing it with flair, with a certain amount of panache and is making all the right political and developmental noises to win support. That’s a clearly thought out business strategy which is patently working.
    He’s buying talented players, but is expecting them to deliver and maximise his ROI. He’s trying to tempt even better players away from their current clubs because it looks good on paper, sends out a clear message that money is no object and that the Lions are serious about top-class rugby.
    However. A collection of top names do not necessarily a team make. And adding big names to a team does not necessarily guarantee a class act. Take one Bryan Habana as a prime example. Does anyone here really believe that he has given WP a good ROI? Or turned them into a prize-winning side?
    Investment of this nature carries with it an inherent risk – that you don’t get what you pay for.
    It is early days for the Lions. Pumped up with adrenalin, buoyed by a fresh approach and a seemingly bottomless chequebook, they look likely to give their SupeRugby colleagues a run for their money… But time alone will prove whether Gumede’s money has been well spent.
    One has to remember that rugby is a professional sport. It pays for play. So it goes without saying that players want to be paid what they, and their agents, think they are worth. The bigger the player, the bigger the anticipated pay-cheque. But there are always going to be some players who place loyalty and lifestyle in the same sentence as lucrative. The trick for any union is rewarding those players for their loyalty, thus allowing them to maintain their lifestyle so that the more lucrative offers don’t matter.
    How many of us on this site would leave our jobs at the drop of a hat if we were offered considerably more to do a very similar job a few hundred kilometres down the road? And how many of us would pass up the opportunity of fresh pastures because we are happy living where we are, doing what we do and love where we are in life?
    Money is not everything. Not for everybody.
    For the Frans Steyns, the Luke Watsons and those with axes to grind about missed Bok opportunities, unfair salaries and political bias, the lure of the Euro is always going to be greater. As is the chance to prove a point and give the middle finger to those perceived to have wronged them.
    Then there are other players who just jump at the chance to experience something different, a new lifestyle and culture. For those Europe is a given, because it offers the chance to broaden horizons rather than say “up yours” to the Bok selectors.
    Let us not forget that as alluring as the European lifestyle and forex may be, the cost of living in France and the UK is excessively prohibitive and the politics make even ours look pale in comparison.
    The difference is that the politics is not directly related to the sport. And that, I believe, is the major hurdle that South African rugby has to overcome.
    For as long as there is a political agenda at provincial and national level, there will be instability and restricted growth. That’s where private investment is perhaps the greatest hope for lasting change for the better in this sport… Because money talks louder than any politician ever can.

  • Comment 197, posted at 16.02.11 18:24:02 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    ShazCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 197) : Want to write an article about it? ;)

  • Comment 198, posted at 16.02.11 18:42:12 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 198) : Eish. Think I just did! :lol:

  • Comment 199, posted at 16.02.11 18:44:56 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    ShazCurrie Cup player
     
  • Sorry. Got on my soap box there. Hard to get me off when I get started!

  • Comment 200, posted at 16.02.11 18:45:47 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    ShazCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 199) : Haha yes I think you did! Well done! :)

  • Comment 201, posted at 16.02.11 18:47:25 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 201) : So you think I should turn pro? Ha ha!

  • Comment 202, posted at 16.02.11 18:51:10 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    ShazCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 202) : haha your already there!

  • Comment 203, posted at 16.02.11 18:58:29 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 203) : Private investors, where ARE you? :lol:

  • Comment 204, posted at 16.02.11 19:07:59 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    ShazCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 204) : I hope we get a rich one seen. Though I’m gonna get involved in the political talk.

  • Comment 205, posted at 16.02.11 19:22:43 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     

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