KSA Shark ©

That TMO Call


Written by Andre Bosch (KSA Shark ©)

Posted in :All Blacks, In the news, Springboks, Tri Nations on 21 Aug 2011 at 19:13
Tagged with : , , , ,

The advice of the television match official at the Tri-Nations match between South Africa and New Zealand on Saturday has evoked some questioning.

Article Courtesy of Rugby365.

Israel Dagg of New Zealand broke in spectacular fashion near the half-way line and headed for the South African line. About two metres from the goal-line François Hougaard of South Africa brought Dagg to ground. Brought to ground, Dagg passed to Jimmy Cowan who went over in Bryan Habana’s tackle.

The referee then consulted the television match official, saying: “Johan, is this a try – yes or no?”

The TMO looked at the incident in slow motion and reported to the referee: “There is no problem with the grounding. Do you require any information before the goal-line?”

The referee said: “Yes.”

The TMO said: “It was a forward pass.”

The referee signalled that a try had not been scored and awarded a five-metre scrum to South Africa.

Later, unofficially, there were queries about all of this. Was such a decision within the TMO’s jurisdiction.

The International Rugby Board has a protocol for how the TMO may or may not be used. The protocol states:

The areas of adjudication are limited to Law 6. 8 (b), 6.8 (d) and 6.8 (e) and therefore relate to: 

Grounding of the ball for try and touch down
Touch, touch-in-goal, ball being made dead during the act of grounding the ball. 

This includes situations where a player may or may not have stepped in touch in the act of grounding the ball on or over the goal line. 

The TMO could therefore be requested to assist the referee in making the following decisions: 
Try No try and scrum awarded 5 metres
Touch down by a defender  In touch – line-out
Touch-in-goal Ball dead on or over the dead ball line Penalty tries after acts of foul play in in-goal All kicks at goal including dropped goals.    

The TMO must not be requested to provide information on players prior to the ball going into in-goal (except touch in the act of grounding the ball).  The TMO must not be asked to assist in any other decision other than those listed. The referee must make an effort to make an adjudication. If he is unsighted or has doubt, he will then use the following process (4).

It is clear from the protocol that in this case the TMO was acting out of protocol – and yet the just result was obtained.

The pass was forward and for a forward pass a scrum is awarded, which is what happened.

If you watch the action, the referee and his assistant are left about 20 metres behind Dagg as he raced for the line. In fact all the players were left well behind Dagg except for Hougaard. That they were left behind is not surprising, for Dagg sped away.

From their position it was not possible for the referee or his assistant to judge the validity of a short pass. But the TMO could do so. It seems eminently sensible and fair to consult the TMO. It is not taking matters way back but is close to the line and part of the act of scoring – as a foot in touch would be.

Interestingly, the New Zealand coach, Graham Henry had no problem with the decision, saying in his dry way: “If it was a forward pass, it shouldn’t have been a try. If the officials can make good decisions on the evidence they have got, why not? I know it’s outside the laws of the game – they should only adjudicate over the goal line. But I haven’t got a problem with it.

“That was the reality – it wasn’t awarded. I don’t know if it was a forward pass or not. I asked Israel Dagg after the game and he reckoned it was 50-50. If we were on the receiving end and South Africa were disallowed a try because it was a forward pass, we would be happy about that.”

André Watson, South Africa’s refereeing boss, supported the decision. He said: “What we want is the right decision. It was clear that the pass was forward and if the try had been allowed we [referees] would have looked a bunch of fools.

“Protocols are important and we should try to stick to them but they are essentially guidelines and I’d rather apologise for what happened than get the wrong answer.”

The protocol is not a part of the Laws of the Game, just a regulation of a process of applying the laws.

Article Courtesy of Rugby365.



33 Comments

  • Big Balls shown by the TMO, but great common sense applied as well.

    And there is nothing COMMON about common sense.

  • Comment 1, posted at 21.08.11 19:14:48 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Very good decision imo.

    As long as the correct decision is made I’m happy.

    Maybe they should expand the powers of the TMO, or at least the questions the ref may ask.

    Also hats off to the headmaster for not bitching about it. Perfectly grown-up response from the old chap.

  • Comment 2, posted at 21.08.11 19:17:40 by McLovin Reply
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  • At least that was one forward pass that got picked up.

    The NZ try that was allowed also had one or two very dodgy passes in the build up. :twisted:

  • Comment 3, posted at 21.08.11 19:19:40 by McLovin Reply
    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 3) : We’ll give them that one try we don’t want to put the shock of a white wash just before the RWC. ;-)

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.08.11 19:26:38 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • I dig the way Henry is reacting to this… spot on… it was a forward pass, so no try was the correct call.

    You can just imagine the histrionics coming from some quarters if this call had gone against us… always puts you on a dodgy footing when you’re trying to argue that illegal play DID actually happen but shouldn’t have been called up due to a legal technicality :)

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.08.11 19:37:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • I wonder if the AB’s aren’t hoping that saluting the call might prevent any forward-pass drama for them in the 2011 WC? :twisted:

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.08.11 21:06:02 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Well I see Paddy O’Brien is not as magnanimous as Graham Henry. :lol:

    Graham Henry didn’t have a problem with it, while Israel Dagg thought the All Blacks were a bit hard done by.

    But IRB referees boss Paddy O’Brien was much stronger when it came to yesterday morning’s howler, in which referee George Clancy and TMO Johan Meuswesen failed to award All Blacks halfback Jimmy Cowan a fair try, in their 18-5 loss to South Africa at Port Elizabeth.

    “They were wrong,” O’Brien said of his match officials.

    As for why Meuswesen had gone outside of his jurisdiction, to inform Clancy that Dagg’s final pass to Cowan was forward, O’Brien didn’t know. Or why a referee as experienced as Clancy was swayed by advice that wasn’t Meuswesen’s to give.

    “I’ve asked for a reply from both of them and I haven’t received one, as yet,” said O’Brien. “They are expected to stick to our protocols and the message will be loud and clear come the World Cup, or come this week’s test matches, that there will be consequences for officials that go outside the protocols. That’s why they’re in place.”

    This particular one being that TMOs can rule on incidents that take place within the in-goal area, not out in the field of play.

    Meuswesen is one of two TMOs used during South Africa’s home test matches and had always been assigned to yesterday’s match, O’Brien said.

    “He’s a very competent TMO, just like George is a very good referee. But they got it wrong and they will be told that they got it wrong.”

  • Comment 7, posted at 22.08.11 00:34:07 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Duncan Johnstone in the Dominion Post is also not so happy and then also gets it wrong thinking that the TMO was a late replacement. :lol:

    It took an illegal call from the TMO to blot Israel Dagg’s exciting return to test action with the All Blacks……

    ……And in the second-half instance, Dagg’s pass to the supporting halfback was wrongly ruled against as Cowan dived over for a try that would have brought the All Blacks back into the game.

    TMO Johan Meuswesen, a late replacement for the job, ruled that Dagg’s pass had gone forward, ignoring the fact that he was allowed to adjudicate on only the grounding of the ball by Cowan, where there was no issue.

  • Comment 8, posted at 22.08.11 00:40:25 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 7) :
    I find it disgusting but unsurprising that O-Brien is so vocal on this but won’t speak up on some of the awful decisions SA has suffered at the hands of refs like Bryce Lawrence in the past.

  • Comment 9, posted at 22.08.11 07:21:09 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 9) : AMEN

    These assholes are actually trying to justify that they should have got away with scoring an unfair try. Can you credit it?

    Hope they choke on their World Cup hamburgers.

  • Comment 10, posted at 22.08.11 07:23:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • :roll:

  • Comment 11, posted at 22.08.11 07:33:12 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 11) : slow morning? :)

  • Comment 12, posted at 22.08.11 08:37:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : Not in the mood for whining a-holes :oops:

  • Comment 13, posted at 22.08.11 08:46:37 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 13) : And by that I’m talking about the TMO’s decision.

  • Comment 14, posted at 22.08.11 08:49:01 by JarsonX Reply
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  • Firsty I think the law should be that any TMO decisions regarding a try should simply be: Is there any reason why a try should not be given? That will then cover whether the ball was grounded, was it knocked on, foot in touch, forward pass etc. Its very simple really. Second for all and any New Zealander complaining, Think back to the 2007 WC and ask then is the TMO should have spoken about a forward pass.

  • Comment 15, posted at 22.08.11 08:49:59 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JarsonX (Comment 13) : ha ha… with you on that

  • Comment 16, posted at 22.08.11 08:54:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • The TMO looked at the incident in slow motion and reported to the referee: “There is no problem with the grounding. Do you require any information before the goal-line?”

    The referee said: “Yes.”

    The TMO said: “It was a forward pass.”

    TMO did not speak out of turn, he simply asked a question.

  • Comment 17, posted at 22.08.11 08:57:08 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 16) : That’s a first :wink:

  • Comment 18, posted at 22.08.11 08:58:14 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 18) : nah…. wouldn’t say that :) You need some love, Jarson? Come get a hug!

  • Comment 19, posted at 22.08.11 08:59:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 17) : well, strictly speaking, he did speak out of turn, because he offered the ref advice that he wasn’t allowed to give, according to “protocol”.

    It was, to my mind, a Ghandi-like moment. He broke the rules to do what is RIGHT, showing a massive middle finger to the MAN (Paddy) in the process.

  • Comment 20, posted at 22.08.11 09:00:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • The referee then consulted the television match official, saying: “Johan, is this a try – yes or no?”

    The TMO could have given a simple answer here and said “NO” which is the truth.

  • Comment 21, posted at 22.08.11 09:05:22 by JarsonX Reply
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  • Remember the penalty against Beast (super rugby) where the ref uttered “dangerous play” during the scrum. My point is: You win some, you lose some. Get over it :smile:

  • Comment 22, posted at 22.08.11 09:12:44 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 21) :

    Good one Jars: So if he answered “No try due to a forward pass just before the ball was grounded”it technically would not have been wrong then?

    Some balls shown by Meuswesen!

  • Comment 23, posted at 22.08.11 09:44:16 by Ice Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 10) : :shock:

    but agree with you

  • Comment 24, posted at 22.08.11 09:46:30 by chaz Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 15) : the thing is, HOW far back do you before the TMO doesn’t comment? Did the guy step in touch and it was missed by the ref and TJ when he was in his own 22, 45sec earlier.

    That is why the protocol is only for ingoal actions.

    We got the right decision because of common sense, lets hope that prevails all the time.

  • Comment 25, posted at 22.08.11 10:08:34 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @JarsonX (Comment 17) : He did speak out of turn AND the ref should have said NO.

    The thing is that sometimes it is acceptable to break prorocol to reach the just result. Paddy O’Brien can’t see that through his black glasses though.

  • Comment 26, posted at 22.08.11 10:11:47 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @JarsonX (Comment 21) : He would then have been all but fired as the act of scoring the try (which he was asked to judge) had nothing wrong with it. He SORT of covered his arse by ASKING if the ref wanted the info.

  • Comment 27, posted at 22.08.11 10:14:29 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 20) :

    One important thing to remember here:

    “The protocol is not a part of the Laws of the Game, just a regulation of a process of applying the laws.”

  • Comment 28, posted at 22.08.11 10:44:51 by Morné Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 25) :

    Last pass in my view is still the act of scoring a try if it happens inside the 22.

  • Comment 29, posted at 22.08.11 10:46:36 by Morné Reply
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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 25) : I know what u mean bout how far back do we go. I think the referees can be more specific because at the moment they are fairly vague about what they want the TMO to look at. If the ref said I was not in the 22 can you see if the try should be awarded then the TMO can look from the 22 to the act of scoring. If the ref said im happy with everything just check the grounding then the TMO knows what to look for. Screw protocols and uniform questions, ask for the info that will help u make the decision.

  • Comment 30, posted at 22.08.11 11:52:13 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 29) : Yes but you and i have common sense.

    These guys are trying to implement a set of protocols and then allowing NO ROOM for interpretation.

    Strangely we all call for the referees to not be allowed to interpret the laws but to blow them as they are written, in this case we don’t :)

  • Comment 31, posted at 22.08.11 11:58:06 by KSA Shark © Reply

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  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 31) : “Interpretation” What a powerful word :razz:

  • Comment 32, posted at 22.08.11 12:54:35 by JarsonX Reply
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  • If they don’t allow the TMO more discretion then they should look at having 2 x refs on the field like League. As far too many times during the Super season and now in Internationals the refs are struggling to keep up with the play and forward passes are going unpunished. Also as I long suspected during his carrier as a ref Paddy is showing that he is biased, and shouldn’t hold his position on the IRB as he never seems to get invoved unless the AB’s are concerned.

  • Comment 33, posted at 22.08.11 23:33:53 by Dynamite Reply

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