Allister Coetzee has had to make a whole host of changes to the team that played last week due to injuries, but once again it gives the youngsters a great chance to show their capabilities.
There are quite a few weird selections that I hope to get clarity on soon, but injured doubtfuls Conrad Jantjes, Nick Koster and Johann Sadie are all doing bench duty, with Koster being bracketed with Pieter Louw if he doesn’t recover from his neck injury in time. I’m not sure what that means for Sadie and Jantjes, I can only assume we’ve officially run out of backups and are forced to pick ‘em on the bench.
Newcomer Heinrich Steyl starts for Jantjes, u21 inside centre Berton Klaasen starts at the slightly different outside centre. The almost all new loose trio sees Nizaam Carr come in at 8th man, Siya Kolisi makes a return to 7 while hard worker Nick Fenton-Wells has another shot at 6. Adriaan Fondse comes in for the rested Hilton Lobberts and I’m very happy to see JC Kritzinger making his return from yet another long injury layoff, is Coetzee perhaps rushing him back a little too early?
So without further ado, here is the slightly strange WP team:
Starting XV:
15. Heinrich Steyl, 14. Danie Poolman, 13. Berton Klaasen, 12. Marcel Brache, 11. JJ Engelbrecht, 10. Lionel Cronje, 9. Dewaldt Duvenage, 8. Nizaam Carr, 7. Siya Kolisi, 6. Nick Fenton-Wells, 5. De Kock Steenkamp, 4. Adriaan Fondse, 3. Brok Harris, 2. Tiaan Liebenberg (C), 1. JC Kritzinger
Reserves:
16. Deon Fourie, 17. Frans Malherbe, 18. Tertius Daniller, 19. Nick Koster/P Louw, 20. Louis Schreuder, 21. Johann Sadie, 22. Conrad Jantjes
Referee: Mark Lawrence
Kick Off: Saturday, 17:05 – Mr Price Kings Park, Durban.
This bench situation has me slightly perplexed… if they’re injured why risk them?
Hopefully Lionel has practiced his kicking for touch… would be nice to make more than 5 metres when we get a penalty. Also hope he shakes off more of the rust, after last week I think I’d prefer Dollie at 10
Rumours are that Sadie and Jantjes are getting a rest, but Jantjes also hasn’t trained this week… so who knows.
Weird stuff..
Why not bring in the immensely talented JP du Plessis?!
I heard he is a certain Springbok for the End of Year Tour…
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 5) : bwahahaha
@molly (Comment 3) :
I saw that in the news article I read.. If they are rested, and they did not train, why are they on the bench?
Brand new WP team vs Tried and Tested Sharks…
Now Plum will select his best OLD team…
@Charlie (Comment 9) : If Plum selects the Old toppies then Adi will play.
BTW only a few more days to the end of the month.
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 8) :
More like TIRED and tested.
If you guys don’t mind, this is a WP thread… plenty other ones for you to dominate with your shark agenda
@molly (Comment 12) : If you don’t mind, this is a Sharks site… Plenty other ones for you to dominate with your Province agenda
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 8) : some spelling mistakes there boet “Brand new WP team vs Tried(tired) and Tested(rusted) Sharks…”
Our young team is so inexperienced. If only we had the saviour of SA rugby in our team…
@Culling Song (Comment 13) :
how good are the lions ?
Strange side.
Sharks to violate the WP lady-boys by 20.
Carr at 8
WHY 
Forgot about Fondse
@Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 19) : he’s a play maker, hopefully one with pace. He seems well suited for there.
@wpw (Comment 15) : Goosen?
@KSA Shark © (Comment 22) : Henry Honiball
@molly (Comment 21) : ‘n bietjie klein neh?
@wpw (Comment 15) : ours is too old and too badly coached.
@wpw (Comment 15) : Hey lambie has a Sharks contract.
I thought they would have switched the centres around: Klaasen at 12 and Brache at 13.
Anyway it will be a good opportunity for Plum and co to have a look a good look at Klaasen. He holds his own at u21 level but this is a step up.
If the Sharks lose to this WP team at home we should just withdraw from the Currie Cup 2011 altogether.
@Salmonoid (Comment 26) : Oh hell, I typed Patricks surname with a small l, sorry Shaz, it was not intentional.
@beet (Comment 28) : haha, don’t write us off too easily, we’re playing to stay alive!!
@beet (Comment 28) : And I have this horrible feeling that that may just happen, well not the withdrawl.
@molly (Comment 30) : How do you see the scrums going?
@Salmonoid (Comment 32) : hmm… not sure what to expect from JC, and we’ve lost alot of grunt with Lobberts being rested. yeah… not too confident.
@molly (Comment 33) : Agree and if they battle upfront Im afraid it will be long day for your boys, if they hold their own upfront I think your unknown backs may just be able to pull a few surprises mainly because no one knows what to expect from them.
@Salmonoid (Comment 34) : yup, getting tired of watching them get decimated in the forwards in the first 20, if we can start strong hopefully we’ll maintain momentum. But I’m not a fan of Fondse or De Kock… and its a LIGHT loose trio, so I don’t really have high hopes.
@KSA Shark © (Comment 10) :
@molly (Comment 35) : Dissappointed in Fondse, I thought he would step up sometime but he seems to have actually got less mean.
@Charlie (Comment 36) : That looks promising.
Great job AC. A must win game and you start resting players. Why could they not rest against the Pumas
Think this pretty much ends WP’s semi-final hopes. Can’t see them beating the Lions in Jo’burg.
@molly (Comment 35) : I used to be a Fondse fan, never ever rated Steenkamp
Is Alistair Coetzee already having trials for his Super rugby squad?? Looks that way. Lets hope the Sharks pull finger this week!
@hendrikp (Comment 39) :
It’s not like we were ever going to compete what with all our losses to the Bok squad as well as the injuries sustained during the season.
Would it really make a difference if we select Sadie or Dollie??
Our problem in my opinion is our lack of grunt in the forwards – i.e. light 5
When is Elstadt coming back?
How big is Caruthers-Smyth? Sorry, I mean Fenton-Wells.
@robdylan (Comment 44) :
1.86m and 102kgs
@robdylan (Comment 44) : What’s the name of the Sharks lock that you posted a pic off? The one where he stands waist, shoulders and head above the other primary school boys.
@wpw (Comment 42) :
We’ve got a better chance starting Sadie, then leaving him on the bench. Are we now giving up instead?
Losing players to Springbok duty should be no excuse. We’ve only got 6 players in the World Cup squad. The Sharks have 8. The Bulls have 9. Injuries haven’t been as bad as is being made out either.
The real problem is a lack of depth. Now they’re bringing through everyone who plays U21 rugby, but they aren’t quite up to it either.
An injuried 15: 1 Steven Kitshoff 2? 3? 4 Rynhardt Elstadt 5 ? (Bekker would’ve been on WC duty) 6 ? 7 ? 8 Duane Vermeulen 9 ? 10 Catrakilis (shouldn’t have let Peter Grant go in the first place) 11 ? 12 Tim Whitehead 13 ? 14 ? 15 ?
So really only 5 positions.
I`ll admit, after our performance friday night I didn`t have much hope for the sharks against wp, but after seeing this wp team I`m slowly coming around again.
Surely we won`t lose against this team in Durban?
@wpw (Comment 45) : oh. Thought he was a bit bigger
@Ben (Comment 46) : johan schoonbee
Elstadt
Bekker
Vermeulen
Flouw (Bath bound)
Grant
Habana
JDV
JDJ
TWG13
Aplon
Any team that loses that many quality players will suffer. I mean our backline alone has lost 5 Springboks.
@wpw (Comment 51) :
The Bulls lost Gurthro Steenkamp, Chilliboy Ralepelle, Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw, Victor Matfield, Pierre Spies, Fourie du Preez, Francois Hougaard & Morne Steyn.
Yet they’re going to overtake Province with what I’d call a pathetic side.
@wpw (Comment 51) :
@hendrikp (Comment 52) :
What is this that I see Coetzee saying there are only 22 fit playes in the Province?!
Why can’t he use more U21′s?
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 53) :
I’m guessing he meant players who have trained with the senior side. You can’t exactly throw youngster in the deep end without rehearsing over a reasonable period of time what they are expected to do.
@hendrikp (Comment 54) :
Rather have a fit U21 player on the bench than someone who hasn’t trained all the week?
@hendrikp (Comment 54) :
And surely JP du Plessis is talented enough to already know all the Province plans?
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 56) :
He doesn’t have a contract. Something to do with Province signing players at the start of the season or something…. I’m sure someone will snap him up for next year.
@hendrikp (Comment 57) :
Looking forward to seeing this kid play…
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 58) :
Look forward to hearing how he goes
@hendrikp (Comment 59) :
You’ll have my honest and unbiased opinion…
@hendrikp (Comment 59) : Here’s where you lose me a bit.
, stating that they are either good or bad, whereas in fact many players not just here in SA but in NZ, Aus and Europe as well fall comfortably into the middle ground between good and bad, sometimes peaking as good and other times hitting the lows of being bad.
And I fear that coz of the way you classify players, you’d run into many dead ends / stale mates when it comes to recruitment.
I have a feeling that you tend to be too strict in your classification of players
Now understandable WP are in a bit of a pickle, having to rely on young players who may very well achieve your “good” classification one day, but aren’t there right now. Your feeling (please correct me if I’m wrong here) is that Province should have done a better job of building depth ahead of this CC campaign. However this is where my breakdown in understanding occurs. How could they have improved depth if you’ve already written off many of the available players from other regions as being “bad”
For example I say Tim Whitehead, accepted not a showstopper, but would be a welcome addition to the Sharks and could add value. However you seem to say, waste of time about the same player, the Sharks would be making a lateral move by signing him.
So help me out if you have time. Reasonably pick say 5 players within achievable budget that you believe Province could have recruited at some stage in the last 12 months, that could have averted their current perceived dilemma.
@beet (Comment 61) :
Good or bad is probably the wrong way to describe my evaluation on players.
Whitehead for example. You’re all complaining about Meyer Bosman, but why sign a player of a similar standard? The whole point is to upgrade. I wouldn’t say he’s a BAD player, but I wouldn’t deem him to be a solution at 12, so why bother when you’ve got talented players at the province already? He’s not going to get much game-time at the Sharks I’d imagine so why use that money signing him? I’d even put Paul Jordaan as a better player at this stage based on what I’ve seen from him at the Junior World Champs.
5 players Province could’ve signed? I’d put it more down to letting talented players go. Looking through all the Currie Cup squads, I see plenty of talented players who originate from WP of reasonable quality who could be playing for them. The Griquas team is loaded with them. The Bulls have a handful. The Lions have some. Even the Cheetahs have a few.
Considering SA Rugby pay the provinces who are supplying Springboks, where is the money saved from paying the Boks spent? I’m confident there are plenty of players who would’ve been prepared to play for WP.
@hendrikp (Comment 62) :
Or in other words the point should be to either develop a player of Springbok quality, or sign one from another Province who has that potential, or is currently sitting behind someone of a similar standard.
Why not back Paul Jordaan who seems to have a big future? Give Juan de Jongh a big contract? Whitehead is not an upgrade. He’s a short-term solution.
Franna Venter also seems to have a BIG future ahead of him. Why do the Bulls sign all the talented youngsters and other provinces are stuck with the ones who don’t want to move out of home?!
@hendrikp (Comment 62) :
You’ve just compared a hyped up player (Paul Jordaan) who hasn’t even played CC rugby to a fairly decent back up player in Whitehead who represented the Stormers and has had some very good games for WP.
Paul Jordaan has achieved absolutely SQUAT and is one of the most overhyped players in recent times.
Similar to JP du Plessis and Ish-mael Dollie!!
@wpw (Comment 65) :
Great. He had what I thought was a pretty good IRB Junior World Champs. Looks talented.
So the Sharks should sign a decent back up rather then play him?
Paul Jordaan = What looks like a very talented player. Potential Springbok. Possible long-term solution
Tim Whitehead = wpw calls him a fairly decent back-up.
I know who I’d invest my time and money in.
@hendrikp (Comment 67) :
I’m inclined to agree with you here. Rather back a player who is POSSIBLY really good that purchase one who is proven average.
@Big Fish (Comment 68) :
Thanks. Especially when you’ve already got one on contract. Why sign a 2nd one? Can Paul Jordaan do any worse then Tim Whitehead?
I don’t think so. Back him now if he’s got a future, rather then spending more money signing another player who doesn’t demand a starting spot.
@hendrikp (Comment 62) : Thanks Hendrik
haha) without enough grey area.
I still feel that although you’re not a Sharks supporter, when it comes to categorizing players, you’ve got too many things painted in black and white (
If I understand you better, you feel that Province haven’t erred so much in the recruitment drive as they have in letting the likes of I’m guessing WP Nel, Josh Strauss, Adriaanse etc leave. Do you have specific players by name you would have liked to have seen WP hold onto. There are obviously there are guys like Dippenaar and Martin Muller who although Cape boys aren’t necessarily worth wanting back.
I know that it’s part of SA rugby’s culture that always sees players moving around to achieve best fit type solutions. If I could share some insight with you on the quality of the 4 schoolboy locks that the Bulls have signed for 2012, you would be as sad as I am, knowing that SA rugby’s interests would have been better served to see at least 2 of these youngsters going to other Unions, which they inevitable will have to do one day, prompting a debate of a different kind when it happens I’m sure.
BTW I actually think of Whitehead as a no.13 role player and I’m a big fan of Paul Jordaan – have been for almost 2 years now.
I think the disconnect here is that WP are losing good players with experience, we’re now trying to groom some to prepare them for a loooooong S15 season next year. While Tim might be average, he’s had experience at CC and S15 level, will be a more than capable rotation option for Bosman or whoever else you guys have. Whereas WP now have to look for the next u21 star to make the step up because we let Bosch, Sadie, (potentially) Whitehead go. So as soon as one of JdV, JF or JdJ gets injured who are we going to put on the bench? Brache? With NO S15 experience… I’d rather have Whitehead/Sadie methinks. BUT… at least I can see we’re trying to get a big pool to choose from out of the youngsters.
Whereas the Sharks are sitting with a player some think is the next big thing but isn’t getting any CC gametime, would you want him to make his debut at S15? Not me thanks. And thats why Plum is making the purchases he is, once you look past the first choice you have no experienced backup (especially in the backline) and sadly there seems to be no real plan to groom them in the CC.
Keep in mind I’m only capable of saying this now, last year instead of grooming a youngster at FH to take over in Grant’s absence we picked a 40 year old hasbeen/neverwas that was leaving before the S15 even kicked off. I am much happier with our processes in place at the moment, even though it means opening up to other teams seeing our talent and being able to purchase them
@molly (Comment 71) :
I hear what you are saying with regards to inexperience in the backline in the reserves..
I think the plan is for him to settle at this stage first and potentially come through during next year’s Currie Cup. I think he should have been given a run in the current competition, there was absolutely no chance he could do any worse?
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 72) : ja, thats fine, but tell me who are your centres for the S15 next year?
Bosman, Joubert… then? Adi proooobably won’t want to stay another, is Stef still playing next year? JLP?
Please don’t interpret this as me poking fun, I know all too well about glass houses, I’m just concerned about the plan for next year for you guys.
I’m not sure if it’s just me but I feeling that Tim Whitehead is being poorly assessed here on SW.
I think he’s a lot better than people are giving him credit for.
@molly (Comment 73) :
Im actually trying to figure this out for myself..
If Stef stays, which I personally do not want, then I reckon Adi will leave.
Otherwise, its Bosman, Joubert and Jacobs, maybe Pat at inside centre if ush comes to shove, and Riaan Viljoen?!
Jeez, that paints a dour picture..
Hopefully the likes of Lindeque and Williams will get a look in, but after no Currie Cup action, I seriously cannot see that happening.
We will probably end up buying again..
Who is in their 30′s and plays rugby in Europe that we can buy? Molls, is Fleck perhaps available?
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 75) : thats the problem I see for you guys, beyond your first 2 choices, maybe 3 (if Adi/Stef stays) you then have to resort to playing players out of position. That makes Whitehead a good purchase, but still would have been better to try some youngsters now should you need them in the S15, CC is testing ground, super rugby shouldn’t really be.
@beet (Comment 74) : I think you’ll find most WP supporters dig him, he didn’t get enough credit at WP and hence not much game time, I really thought he was looking good this year before he got injured.
@molly (Comment 76) :
I agree 100%..
Maybe there is a bit of truth to the rumour that Fransie is coming back to South Africa? I can’t see out coaches being so short sighted?
@molly (Comment 76) :
And how long will a player like Joubert last, playing 80 minutes a weekend and getting battered?!
Seems like Plum’s still struggling to select a team…
@Charlie (Comment 80) :
Must be waiting on injuries or something?
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 81) : As a full fledged member of the Johan Goosen Fan Club, I can’t wait for the next SW article. Will it be you or Rob that brings the great news FC Goosen news to bloggers?
@beet (Comment 82) : bwahahahahahahaaaa. Whats a bet there won’t be a post?
@beet (Comment 82) :
Look, I’m a fan of any player that makes it big at a young age, ie Lambie, Steyn (I was a fan at one stage) and the like.
But I reserve judgment until he has played some Super Rugby…
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 84) : Steyn got the call up to the Boks after just 1 CC game… just saying
@molly (Comment 85) : having said that… I see a trend.
Young Sharks player has one good game against WP and must immediately be written into the annuls of legend.
of course both have achieved much since then.
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 81) : Ai die kroklys…
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 84) : Hey Rich, does this mean we’ll have to wait for SR season to hear who won PotM for Sep 2011?
@beet (Comment 88) : ag ok, I can see its not forthcoming, I’ll get it up.
@robdylan (Comment 50) : Oh thanks. How tall is he now??
@Ben (Comment 90) : I think he’s Bekker’s height – 2.10m.
Affies have an u16 player this year who’s 2.04m. He’s a good player.
I hope your enjoying the NFL season.
@beet (Comment 91) :
Thanks
NFL is boring as hell!
@beet (Comment 91) : How old is Johan now?
@Ben (Comment 93) : He’s in his 2nd year of u21 my guess is that he’s either 21 or about to turn 21.
@beet (Comment 94) : Is he any good?
@Ben (Comment 95) : I don’t think he has a future as a pro player. He doesn’t seem to have the same kind of burning desire to do well as a lot of the guys I’ve seen who’ve gone on to make the step up.
At the Sharks in recent seasons we’ve had a good success rate when it comes to young locks making the step up. I think 2 of our current crop – Peet Marais and Pieter-Steph will do well at senior level. Lewies is a player I’m undecided on. Having been a bit critical of the few performances of his that I’d seen before, I was actually pleased with how he went against SWD.
@beet (Comment 96) : That’s a real shame.