robdylan

No new deal for Jacobs?


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 21 Nov 2011 at 16:34
Tagged with : , , , ,

Talk coming out of Durban suggests that veteran centre Adrian Jacobs has not been contracted by the Sharks for the 2012 season.

Jacobs, whose Sharks deal expired at the end of October, was apparently hopeful of a renewal and planned to continue (and possibly end) his playing career in Durban. The Sharks appear to have other ideas, though and Jacobs looks to have been left high and dry after a disappointing 2011 season that saw him struggle for game time, despite continued poor permanences by those picked ahead of him in the Sharks midfield.

With Stefan Terblanche also denied a contract extension, the Sharks seem to be putting all their outside centre eggs in Marius Joubert’s basket, although new signing Tim Whitehead could also be an option in this most troublesome of positions. Paul Jordaan’s elevation to the Super Rugby training squad may also mean that he is in the running for some game time, perhaps in the number 13 jersey.

We have no information regarding Jacobs’ future plans, but we’ll, of course, keep you posted as matters develop.



138 Comments

  • Plum has never been one of Jacobs’ biggest fans.

  • Comment 1, posted at 21.11.11 16:38:08 by PTAShark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    DragnipurSuper Rugby player
     
  • Jacobs will hopefully now come out and tell all about his relationship with coach Plumtree.

    Also his true market worth can now be established.

    If he wants to stay in SA and hopes to have an outside chance of playing SR, I think he should appraoch the Cheetahs.

  • Comment 2, posted at 21.11.11 16:54:49 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @beet (Comment 2) :

    Doubt Naka would show interest, and the Cheetahs wouldn’t have the $$ anyway (or anymore to spend…) :mrgreen:

    He’ll have to see if he can get anything in France. That or go play CC First Division.

  • Comment 3, posted at 21.11.11 17:04:28 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • It is absolutely ridiculous to contract Joubert ahead of Jacobs.

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.11.11 17:25:42 by war1 Reply
    Author
    war1Super Rugby player
     
  • Eish. Last cast aside a proven, loyal player for a bunch of has-beens.

    Any wonder that the Sharks leak players like their midfield leaks tries? Pitiful.

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.11.11 17:38:27 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • Pathetic.

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.11.11 17:56:17 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
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  • Anyone see Benjamin de Jager’s try for Treviso over the weekend?

  • Comment 7, posted at 21.11.11 18:01:52 by Ben Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 2) : I really really hope they give Piet Lindeque a chance i know Jordaan is the beez neez but lindeque is a great talent.

    What he produced in 2008 alongside venter at affies was sensational he had people talking and asking questions about his abilities and talent.

  • Comment 8, posted at 21.11.11 18:07:01 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • Still think the sharks could have snapped up stefan watermeyer he left because he wanted game time.

    And the sharks or any union is SA could have used his services.

  • Comment 9, posted at 21.11.11 18:10:08 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • Adi come to the Lions. Always rated u as a good impact played and devastating on the outside. Jacobs with Jantjies and Hollenbach would be great.

  • Comment 10, posted at 21.11.11 18:22:35 by Mutley Reply
    Author
    MutleyTeam captain
     
  • Really feel for Adi. Such a loyal player and treated this way. Damn pathetic by our Sharks.

    No wonder some of the best young talent we lost will never ever come back and play for us.

  • Comment 11, posted at 21.11.11 19:28:16 by Puma Reply

    PumaCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Puma (Comment 11) :
    Exactly. You reaps what you sow, that’s how it go.

  • Comment 12, posted at 21.11.11 19:31:03 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • Streauli will probably use the money to contract my garden tap. :evil:

  • Comment 13, posted at 21.11.11 19:38:38 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • very disappointing. a loyal shark who deserved better.

  • Comment 14, posted at 21.11.11 20:00:34 by Jeremiser Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    JeremiserVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 9) : I also rate Watermeyer but he still had a contract with the Bulls and was only released from it to go overseas. The way I see it, he was not actually practically available to another SA team.

  • Comment 15, posted at 21.11.11 20:06:02 by war1 Reply
    Author
    war1Super Rugby player
     
  • @Jeremiser (Comment 14) : Very disapointing indeed, how we treat our players really embarrasses me. Frans doesn’t want to come back to us, Waylon doesn’t want to come back to us, amazed that Rory is keen to come back! Granted, sport isn’t fair but at least be honest with the players. Adi should have know about this months ago so that he can arrange his future…anyway, really worried about number 13. We need to rethink our strategy around Robert Ebersohn. Looking at the other number 13′s in the country, MJ, Lindeque, don’t make me sleep better at night. Can Tim play 13? Then again, you don’t want two (MB and TW)regular sized players at 12 and 13.

  • Comment 16, posted at 21.11.11 20:51:15 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 16) : umm… what strategy around Ebersohn? The strategy so far is we try to buy him and he says no… Can’t think what else we can practically do :)

  • Comment 17, posted at 21.11.11 21:19:51 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • :roll:

  • Comment 18, posted at 21.11.11 21:51:52 by JarsonX Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition WinnerCompetition Winner
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  • I’m hoping that something positive happens and we find ourselves with a backline that can tackle and score tries…

  • Comment 19, posted at 21.11.11 22:33:07 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Just worried about losing both sykes and mostert in the second row .that’s a bit of bulk,weight,grunt and experience gone in the matter of some weeks really.(Add to that the loss of rhodes the previous season – a player we couldve developed into a 7/4 forward – :-| )

  • Comment 20, posted at 21.11.11 22:35:55 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Re: loose forward :Maybe invite jacques engelbrecht to the training camp and have a really good look at him?

  • Comment 21, posted at 21.11.11 22:39:18 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Muzi: changed your mind over lindeque,then..?

  • Comment 22, posted at 21.11.11 22:40:04 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Johan goosen wasn’t yet in the picture (or I suppose he was,but more of “good schoolboy talent from grey college” kinda in the picture,and not” this kid is gonna be the next naas botha” after his performances benched sias) when the ebersohn twins re-signed with the cheetahs.

  • Comment 23, posted at 21.11.11 22:45:26 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Re: jacques engelbrecht: have a look at him again since he was in the squad that participated in the superrugby warm-up games vs lions and weepee in cape town this year.

  • Comment 24, posted at 21.11.11 22:58:47 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @GreatSharksays: dunno if kockott was keen on leaving the sharks in the first place? I really hope he comes back to the sharks “sooner rather than later”..as in january soon.?

  • Comment 25, posted at 21.11.11 23:07:22 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @beet: what happened in the eagles game this past weekend?

  • Comment 26, posted at 21.11.11 23:09:21 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • This is how we treat our own …shame on you sharks! Wonder if MJ and RS arent pulling out egyptian handshakes with this information ,deal on the side.

    I may end up supporting the Lions at this rate ,see all my peers playing for them anyway. Sorry Adi ,the Sharks family atmosphere hah ya right.

  • Comment 27, posted at 21.11.11 23:53:55 by Talent Reply
    Author
    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • Ok i know there are 1 or 10 Adi fans here but lets be honest, surely this is the Sharks moving forward? Adi is the wrong side of 30 and im not sure his conditioning is up to 80min of CC nevermind Super Rugby. So the Sharks are moving forward and we may yet just get to see a youngster or 3….isnt that what everyone was wanting a couple months ago? Yes the centres are probably going to be Bosman and Joubert but hey its rugby…anything can happen! U think Radike Samo practised on the wing before RWC?

  • Comment 28, posted at 22.11.11 07:51:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 28) :

    While I agree with you to an extent I think it’s got more to do with Joubert being there instead of Adi than anything else.

  • Comment 29, posted at 22.11.11 08:21:19 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I’ve always seen Whitehead as more of an inside centre. So my centre combo would be Whitehead/Jordaan.

    But then saying that I really thought that Bosman started to settle in during the CC until he was injured. Joubert, to me, is nothing more than dead weight who shouldn’t be included in the squad.

  • Comment 30, posted at 22.11.11 08:23:43 by Butchie34 Reply
    Author
    Currie Cup player
     
  • Sheldon we would not be so upset if it wasn’t Joubert we were left with :(

  • Comment 31, posted at 22.11.11 08:25:46 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's DudetteSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Butchie34 (Comment 30) : If you say you’ve seen Whitehead as an inside centre what was your view of Paul Bosch then?

  • Comment 32, posted at 22.11.11 09:01:00 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 29) : @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 31) : Yeh look i agree with you about Joubert, but every coach has his favourites and what he sees in a player that he likes or dislikes. I wouldnt mind if Both Jacobs and Joubert were told thanks but no thanks, same goes for Botes for that matter! But one at a time i guess…baby steps at they say.

  • Comment 33, posted at 22.11.11 09:04:36 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @beet (Comment 32) : I see Paul Bosch line dup for Montpellier this week i think?

  • Comment 34, posted at 22.11.11 09:05:41 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @beet (Comment 32) : I’m sure you are happy with the Heading of this article Beet? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 35, posted at 22.11.11 09:06:25 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 35) : Well it’s not necessarily the end of the road for Adi in Durban yet. This might all be part of the negotiation phase as far as the Sharks are concerned – holding out in an effort to try and get the player to settle for a lot less money.

    So I’m not going to volunteer to drive him to the airport just yet :mrgreen:

  • Comment 36, posted at 22.11.11 09:10:50 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @beet (Comment 36) : He can use his sponsored car to drive himself…hehe

  • Comment 37, posted at 22.11.11 09:12:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Well if this is true Sharks management just plummeted to a whole new low.
    Bosman and Joubert was absolutely useless yet they got game time right through the season?
    Maybe they have an incriminating video of Plum or something?

  • Comment 38, posted at 22.11.11 09:14:19 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • Re: paul jordaan at 13: how many times would he be able to to stop jaque fourie, robbie fruean, conrad smith,etc in defence?
    Has our big problem been at centre not the defence ? ( Sure they lack on attack also,but what cost the sharks this season was defence in the midfield ).

  • Comment 39, posted at 22.11.11 09:17:48 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 37) : We’ll get find out just how long a local car sponsor sticks with an out of contract player. :mrgreen:

    Might have to measure it in nanoseconds. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 40, posted at 22.11.11 09:18:11 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • But I don’t see pieter muller coming out of retirement :-|

  • Comment 41, posted at 22.11.11 09:19:50 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @beet (Comment 40) : They may ask him to drop it at the airport on his way out of Durban :) @bergshark (Comment 39) : Are u saying that his defense is bad based on his size? If so a certain “midget” in Pat Lambie would dispel that theory as would James O’Connor. Its about technique not necessarily size.

  • Comment 42, posted at 22.11.11 09:26:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK: some players it is technique and some it is just a case of not enough meat around the bones- robert ebersohn seems to be able to tackle above his weight.dunno if I have the same confidence in jordaan-yet.

  • Comment 43, posted at 22.11.11 09:32:53 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 43) : @bergshark (Comment 39) :

    There is no doubt that Paul Jordaan has to work hard on his defensive game.

    The opportunities for one outside centre to run at another all afternoon long is extremely rare tho.

    Outside centres never top the tackles made charts either.

    Like Hendrik said yesterday, SA players are forever slipping off tackles or making half tackles, it’s the cover defence that often saves the day.

    At the same time, the lessons learnt from Meyer Bosman’s 2010 SR defensive weakness is that there are times when you absolutely have to make a stop to prevent a costly line break. MB didn’t on several occasions. In fact guys sometimes got clean breaks on him – he didn’t touch them. Potentially his lack of speed at closing the space is of far greater concern heading into 2012 than that of a youngster who will have no trouble suffocating an attacking player.

    Whether PJ can hold an attacking player up or put him on the ground in 6 months time is the question that has to be answered.

    If PJ masters that aspect of his play, the Sharks potentially have one of the most deadly attacking backs in the S/Hemisphere. Passing and playmaking for those around him is some he was good at at GCB but he’ll have to prove that he can recapture that same kind of magic in midfield as well.

    BTW Eagles beat division rivals NY Football Giants by 7 points on Mon morning.

  • Comment 44, posted at 22.11.11 09:41:06 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 36) : I hope that is the case.

  • Comment 45, posted at 22.11.11 09:41:49 by Ben Reply
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  • Sigh…

  • Comment 46, posted at 22.11.11 09:52:54 by vanmartin Reply
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    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @beet (Comment 44) : And the Packers remain unbeaten! Woohoo! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 47, posted at 22.11.11 09:55:11 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @beet: congrats with the eagles beating the nygiants.
    Re:paul jordaan :I have worries about him on defence -if he isn’t gonna tackle outside centre,he is gonna have to make a tackle on someone- and I doubt it will be a small scrummy every time .
    Re: cover defence: agree with you.would like to see keegan daniel in a way re-invent himself next season by being the player in the sharks team that lead the tackle stats in every game – he must try and make defence before the the advantage line from opp first phase attack ,get up and look to make the next tackle ( if we haven’t secured turnover ball by having alberts and another big player dominate the area on opp side of tackle ball).he needs to swathe ‘em down from the side.

  • Comment 48, posted at 22.11.11 09:55:20 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @beet (Comment 44) : I think you would agree with me in that the tackling of the majority of south africans is quite poor and we do miss a lot of 1st time tackles in comparison to NZ, Oz and even Wales of late. I just think that not a lot of time is spent actually teaching tackling technique and we rely more on our big guys to just stop or bring down the opposition. Let me just make it clear that the South Africans scrambling defense is probably the best in the world, but if our first time defense was better then we wouldnt need to make those scrambling tackles that tire us out eventually.

  • Comment 49, posted at 22.11.11 10:03:38 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I agree to an extend with Sheldon and with Pokkel being it a case of MJ ahead of Adi.

    But I also know that a lot of the emotion here is because people are close to Adi so to speak. If it was any other player, same age etc, I think your reason of thinking might be slighty different ( if we take MJ out of the picture completely).

    Guys, we need to be realistic here – doesn’t matter how much we love Adi.

  • Comment 50, posted at 22.11.11 10:17:05 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Ice: :-|

  • Comment 51, posted at 22.11.11 10:20:54 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Perhaps saving money for cooke and steyn…?

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.11.11 10:30:53 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 52) :

    :???: Wondering what Cooke has done to have such a big reputation.

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.11.11 10:35:02 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp: keep on wondering… :-|

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.11.11 10:40:40 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 54) : :lol:

  • Comment 55, posted at 22.11.11 10:44:32 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
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  • Who saw the Treviso vs Ospreys game over the weekend?

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.11.11 10:45:11 by Ben Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 54) :

    True. Just need to not be a proven failure to be a centre prospect at the Sharks.

    I’d imagine getting back Rudi Keil would put a smile on most of your faces :lol:

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.11.11 10:46:48 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Ben: didn’t watch the game but you wrote about benjamin de jager’s try (if anyone saw it?). Is he a safrican?

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.11.11 10:54:03 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 58) : Yup he is a Saffa. 1st time I’ve ever seen him. Six foot four winger. Made Shane Williams look like a fool on the way to scoring his try.

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.11.11 10:57:44 by Ben Reply
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  • In other news:

    I recall PJ Vermeulen being a pretty handy player a few years ago.

    Must’ve been playing alright seeing how dominant Boland were in the First Division, so why don’t the Sharks steal him?

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.11.11 10:58:10 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 57) : Ouch!! Uncalled for!!! I don’t think even Beet would have the temerity to call for Keil’s return…

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.11.11 11:00:37 by Culling Song Reply
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    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • I suppose this is just about confirmed.

    JPP just put this Facebook status on his page.

    ‘Morning Everyone. Sad news this morning. My friend/dad Adi Jacobs is leaving the Sharks. All the best on your new journey my friend.’

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.11.11 11:06:34 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
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  • @Culling Song: keil :-|

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.11.11 11:07:07 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Pokkel: :-(

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.11.11 11:08:37 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 61) : haha. Please remind me again whose returns I’ve called for?

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.11.11 11:09:32 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Pokkel: why didn’t you write an quick article,Pokkel?get all the fans reaction?

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.11.11 11:11:00 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @hendrikp: boland isn’t weepee- so guys like schalk burger,de wet barry,mj ,jean div were also all “stolen” by the weepee..

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.11.11 11:21:11 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 62) : He said the same on Twitter. This sucks!

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.11.11 11:22:18 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
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  • You haven’t called for anyone’s return (yet). But you’ve had the unmitigated nerve to be of differing opinion to me on several occassions, so expect some knives in the back from time to time… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.11.11 11:22:23 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @Culling Song: :-D :-D

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.11.11 11:29:12 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @beet: I hope adi gets to keep the car :-|

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.11.11 11:33:55 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Just read on JPP’s wall that Adi is indeed leaving but no details on whereto.

    Imo, Adi should have left long ago coz he isnt getting ANY game time with Plum and as far as I remember he is one of the few players contracted by SARU for the Springboks.

    Good luck Adi. Show dem

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.11.11 11:34:32 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

    JustPlainSHARKCurrie Cup player
     
  • …Everyone frantically writing the article..? Gone awfully quiet awfully fast..

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.11.11 11:36:11 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 62) :

    Oops, verskoning neef. Didnt see your post.

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.11.11 11:42:26 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

    JustPlainSHARKCurrie Cup player
     
  • Sad to see you go Adi! Really hope a nice rich club in France has urgent need of your services!

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.11.11 11:45:39 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @JustPlainSHARK (Comment 74) :

    Geen probleem nie!

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.11.11 11:47:17 by Pokkel Reply
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  • The only way not contrating Adi could be painted as positive was if the Sharks were backing the youth instead.

    But the contracting of the likes of Joubert and Viljoen, as well as recent history shows this to likely be a naïve dream.

    Good luck Adi – those who watched with both eyes would have enjoyed your contribution to Sharks rugby. If it makes you feel better, you are hardly the first (or likely the last) talented player to be screwed by the current regime.

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.11.11 12:07:19 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • Cheers Adi, thanks for the sevice, hope your future pans out for you and above all that you are happy.

  • Comment 78, posted at 22.11.11 12:20:09 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • My goodness we have been sucked into accepting mediocre centres at the Sharks if people are this unhappy at Adi leaving! He ranks with Jorrie Muller in terms of the worst Bok centres ever and is hardly anything to write home about in Super rugby either. His defense resembles Morne Steyn’s and yes he took the odd gap..but it really was the odd gap and he didnt have the pace to go through and score. But as i said we have become too accumstomed with mediocre at the Sharks.

  • Comment 79, posted at 22.11.11 12:47:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 79) :
    Put the crack pipe down. Good enough to keep Jacques Fourie is hardly amongst the worst Boks ever.

    And let’s keep some perspective here: we kept a 36-year old fullback, and a 33-year old has-been who spent the last few years getting sloshed in France, and then hire a 28-year old utility back whose highest honour is representing the Cheetahs in SR, rather than keep a loyal, established centre.

    If you can’t see the problem with this, especially in the light of player losses over the last few years, then maybe time for a reassessment of Sharks rugby.

    But alas – the average fan’s passion for his team usually blinds him to the signs of an ailing union right until the end.

  • Comment 80, posted at 22.11.11 13:05:46 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 80) :

    Ja ne – it seems I can only write about the circus which is Sharks and WP rugby recently – maybe I should post one of them here…

  • Comment 81, posted at 22.11.11 13:12:13 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 81) :
    You know that I will always beg you to post one of your articles here!

    The Sharks have entered a downward cycle since 2007 – any coincidence that this involved Kiwi-born ex-players?

    Any further coincidence that recruitment during both these periods was characterised by contracting of no-name brands who were usually found out within a season or 2 of being contracted?

  • Comment 82, posted at 22.11.11 13:28:51 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 80) : U surely cannot compare Adi Joacobs and Jaque Fourie..unless u been chatting to PDV too long! Ive never been a fan of the signing of M. Joubert but Viljoen is a great signing as he has taken the Sharks apart in pretty much every game he has played against us. Adi Jacobs has been well over rated since his days with the Valke! Yes he is produced a few decent performances but for some people to put him in the same category as Frans Steyn or Brad Barrit…no man!

  • Comment 83, posted at 22.11.11 13:33:38 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 81) : Wud be interesting to hear if you saw a way around WP NOT having to part ways with the likes of Sadie, JJ and Cronje, players who were no doubt offered better deals or in one case maybe a deal involving working with a coach the player stood a chance of getting on with :mrgreen:

  • Comment 84, posted at 22.11.11 13:35:37 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 82) :

    Well the one referenced an article Culling Song (I believe it was) wrote about players contracted and lost from 2007. I will post it here rather than an article I think.

    It is called Player Contracting or Cattle Trading?

    When you approach player contracting like cattle trading, expect to shuffle shit more than what you will count trophies.

    I hate going the obvious route blaming this on coaches, in effect, they can only work with who or what they are given, nevertheless, it amazes me how some unions in this country approach the issue of contracting new players and letting some others go.

    I have all the understanding and respect in the world for just how difficult it is to get the balance of youth and experience right, but at some stage you have to realise you are not just working with contracts or pieces of paper which you can trade off against each other – you are working with individuals, people or more to the point, personalities – personalities who all contribute to a team culture, a fundamental cornerstone of any successful rugby team.

    A team culture does not only involve players – it involves players, coaches and administration.

    A couple of weeks ago I chatted to Boertjie where he told me about a book he is reading about WP Rugby and specifically Jan Pickard and their golden run in the 80’s of five successive Currie Cup titles. A theme which comes through in this book quite strongly is the work Pickard did behind the scenes to create a culture within the union (not only the team or players).

    It is a similar theme I have highlighted as one of the main reasons for the Bulls’ success in the last couple of years under the guidance of Heyneke Meyer where this ‘culture’ became evident when Wynand Olivier turned down a financially lucrative offer from WP Rugby to stay at the Blue Bulls citing the team or family culture that exists in the union.

    Yesterday I read an article on the Sharks union and players that have come and gone since 2007 – a theme which to my mind is and has been repeated within WP Rugby Union.

    There is a common theme in these two unions where you have a substantial financial investment in high profile players at the expense of losing junior players that has come through the ranks (at times from U/16 level) who ends up at other unions or even in other countries.

    In recent months WP fans had to read how the union decided to let promising youngsters, Johan Sadie (center), JJ Engelbrecht (wing) and Lionel Cronje (flyhalf/fullback) go whilst they contracted Joe Pietersen (for more money he earned when he left WP Rugby 2 seasons ago) and agree to contracts with Peter Grant and Jaque Fourie which will see them play in Japan up and till (and probably well into) the Super Rugby season leaving them tired, overplayed and probably broken when they have to do duty for the Stormers in the toughest provincial tournament in the world.

    Another example was the recent contracting of Deon Carstens (ironically originally from the WP/Boland region as age group player) from Saracens while quite happily letting youngsters SP Wessels (WP Craven Week two years in a row and WP U/19 not offered a contract for 2012) and Rossouw Kruger (Boland as late as 2011 now in the Heineken Cup squad for Castre, France) go.

    Reasons offered for releasing these players range from financial constraints (junior players on junior contracts offered senior contracts elsewhere) to surplus requirements (the old ‘we cannot offer everyone a contract’ line).

    And no I do not buy the line offered from certain individuals that some of these junior players were ‘guaranteed’ a jersey or starting spot by other teams as no coach can every guarantee that. It’s as ridiculous as saying the SA Super Rugby Conference trophy means something when you lose the actual competition you are playing in; the Super Rugby competition.

    First off let me be clear that I have no problem with Carstens or Pietersen as they are experienced and very good players, but I have to question the circumstances in which it was done.

    If offering very talented (and no doubt ready for Super Rugby) junior rugby players senior contracts or more money (which would only be fair) is the issue, then why pay huge amounts of cash for Joe Pietersen, Peter Grant and Jaque Fourie for what seems last minute stop-gap or desperate solutions to a very big problem knowing at least two of these players may well be truly knackered when the pitch up for Super Rugby duty?

    Secondly, I seriously have to question the talent scouting abilities of WP Rugby when I see players (props) like Rossouw Kruger included in Heineken Cup squads in Europe (having been told he is not good enough even to play for Boland) and a youngster in SP Wessels who came through all the age-group levels within WP Rugby (snapped up by Heineken Cup team Clermont in a flash) who was told his contract will not be renewed for 2012.

    It is not that the individual cases stated above concerns me, it is the obvious trend that is continually being followed by WP Rugby (and the Sharks) where they seem incapable or simply not interested in developing talent right under their noses rather opting to buy ‘developed’ or ‘recognised’ talent from elsewhere. If you go back over the last 5 to 8 years there are plenty of examples of players that left or were not rated within WP Rugby as juniors to other unions or teams to become stars and in some (or a lot of cases) being bought back years later by the very union that let them go!

    WP Rugby, as with the Sharks are clearly getting it wrong when it comes to building any form of culture within the union, because as far as I am concerned youngsters do not only leave for monetary reasons, they leave for monetary reasons which is accentuated by bad administration and lack of opportunities as the Wynand Olivier case mentioned above clearly illustrates.

    Perhaps it is time that the current administration of both unions read the book of Jan Pickard and how a team (and success) is built around a culture and not superstars. Until then, WP Rugby and Sharks Rugby fans will be shuffling more shit than what they will count trophies.

  • Comment 85, posted at 22.11.11 13:37:13 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 82) : How can the Sharks be on a downward spiral since 2007 if we won the CC in 2008 and 2010? Yes we havnt won the Super Rugby title but we did make the playoffs this year. It doesnt mean a Union is a failure if they dont win every year. If that was the case WP would have shut down long ago.

  • Comment 86, posted at 22.11.11 13:37:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 83) :

    Did you watch test rugby in 2008??

    I don’t think you did… surely you would have seen how exceptional Adi was to the extent he scored 6 tries for the Boks that year.

    He was also nominated as one of SA’s players of the Year!!

    Jorrie Muller you say?? :roll:

  • Comment 87, posted at 22.11.11 13:40:32 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 60) : He is contracted at his rooted province Griekwas Boetie.

  • Comment 88, posted at 22.11.11 13:47:01 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 87) : Tell u what u take Adi to WP then and we will take Jaque Fourie…fair trade you seem to think?

  • Comment 89, posted at 22.11.11 13:47:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 89) : Nee we have enough midfielders. I wont be surprise to see him coming this way but will probably end up at Griquas.

  • Comment 90, posted at 22.11.11 13:48:43 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • See we have the old Paarliet Burton Francis back on books.

  • Comment 91, posted at 22.11.11 13:49:36 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Morne: how convenient you write: “wp/boland region”.. :-|
    .. If the weepee crowd can only realise that boland is not weepee (rolling eyes)..
    But aside from that little oversight (mr:green) ,I like reading your comments and articles :-)

  • Comment 92, posted at 22.11.11 13:49:39 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 92) :

    Boland part of Stormers setup – only reason I included it as WP/Boland.

    And thanks! :)

  • Comment 93, posted at 22.11.11 13:52:16 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morne: :-D oops my wrong :$

  • Comment 94, posted at 22.11.11 13:59:42 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 93) :

    You’ve been scare this side né!

  • Comment 95, posted at 22.11.11 14:00:17 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 95) :

    Been scarce everywhere!

    Been a long year.

  • Comment 96, posted at 22.11.11 14:03:26 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 79) : I won’t go as far as saying you shoulp put you crack pipe down. As everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But dude, in this case your opinion is WRONG! ;)

  • Comment 97, posted at 22.11.11 14:12:48 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 89) : Do you work for the Sharks PR department? I may be wrong, but I have never seen you criticize the the Sharks once. Most are 100 % Sharks supporters and we back the Sharks all the way, but the Sharks are not above criticism.

  • Comment 98, posted at 22.11.11 14:13:03 by Mocho Reply

    MochoVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Ben (Comment 97) : So point is. Maybe drink less beer before watching a game! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 99, posted at 22.11.11 14:15:01 by Ben Reply
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  • @Mocho (Comment 98) : No i def dont work for the Sharks but I am just amazed at people thinking that Adi Jacobs is the best thing since sliced bread! The guy is well average. So no i dont think the Sharks are always right, far from it but i def wont be shedding a tear to see the back of Jacobs…Joubert,Ndungane,Botes can all get on the bus with him for that matter!

  • Comment 100, posted at 22.11.11 14:21:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 89) :

    Dude, you compared Adi to Jorrie Muller.

    My post was in response to that and in no way did I bring Jaque Fourie into the equation. :roll:

  • Comment 101, posted at 22.11.11 14:21:40 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 99) : I need to drink more beer if im going to think Jacobs is a good thing!

  • Comment 102, posted at 22.11.11 14:22:24 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 85) : Good one, as always Morras. Wonder if the Sharks’ “laid back” attitude in the camp have anything to do with this.

  • Comment 103, posted at 22.11.11 14:22:51 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 101) : My Jorrie Muller comparison was an exaggeration as he is the worst Bok ever, well backline anyway. But there were others suggesting Jacobs compares to Fourie which is very far fetched!

  • Comment 104, posted at 22.11.11 14:24:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 102) : Glad you admitted that you drink beer before games. Now we have some solid ground to work from. :)

  • Comment 105, posted at 22.11.11 14:25:58 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 86) :
    You watch the rugby, as well as the log? Look at the standard of rugby and tell me that we aren’t on a downward cycle.

    The most objective opinion on a player often comes from those who don’t support the team, as they don’t have vested interests regarding favourite players competing for positions etc. I reckon the comments from the non-Sharks here are quite revealing in that sense.

  • Comment 106, posted at 22.11.11 14:28:12 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 104) : Adi doesn’t come close to J Fourie. But he’s certainly better than MJ. T Whitehead could have learnt a lot from Adi. Now we are stuck with MJ as our only “experienced” option at 13. That’s the problem.

  • Comment 107, posted at 22.11.11 14:29:21 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 104) : Have to agree with you re the Jacobs / Fourie comparison. Adi has always struck me as being a very humble, down to earth person. On the other hand… :roll:

  • Comment 108, posted at 22.11.11 14:30:41 by diablo Reply

    diabloVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Ben (Comment 107) :

    On Adi, being equally effective at 12 or 13 makes him a real asset. And imo, he has some of the best hands in the business as a center.

  • Comment 109, posted at 22.11.11 14:31:40 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 106) : I dont know about most objective opinion coming from non supporters..i mean i think Jaco Vd Westhuizen is amazing if the Bulls play him! I thought that in 2010 the Sharks played a very good brand of rugby. They played like the Brumbies of old in that their high priority was on ball rentention and going through the phases whilst building pressure. In 2011 they seemed to try and replicate that same gameplan but the accuracy was not there which seemed to lead to frustration and that together with a dodgey defense seemed to be the downfall.

  • Comment 110, posted at 22.11.11 14:31:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @diablo (Comment 108) : Wow! It’s alive! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 111, posted at 22.11.11 14:32:56 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
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  • @Ben (Comment 107) : To be completely honest id rather have Jacobs than Whithead! But id even prefer if Jacobs,Joubert and Whithead all went! Back the youngsters coming through and soon enough 1 of them will swim instead of sink!

  • Comment 112, posted at 22.11.11 14:35:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 112) : And would you rather have MJ than Adi?

  • Comment 113, posted at 22.11.11 14:38:14 by Ben Reply
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    BenAssistant coach
     
  • Saw MJ last week, been at Schalk Burgers bachelors last week who get married soon. Marius will be much better next year, playing in his position.

  • Comment 114, posted at 22.11.11 14:42:23 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @PaarlBok (Comment 114) : Sure thing! :roll:

  • Comment 115, posted at 22.11.11 14:44:56 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
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  • @Ben (Comment 113) : Id rather have neither but if i had to pick then id take Adi provided his conditioning was up to it. And i have a feeling that is where the Sharks went with MJ over Jacobs. Id like to see Ludik at 13 for the Sharks but I think he has as much chance of playing their next year as Jacobs does…

  • Comment 116, posted at 22.11.11 14:47:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 115) : Well he never should have played in 12, never was a 12 in his life. Wing would have been a better bet but luckily for the Sharks Stefaan is gorne. He occupied that 15 jersey way to long and Luddick never had the time to develop since his Lions days at the Sharks. For some reason the Sharks have a way of playing players in so many positions the end up lost to the province. Time Plumtree play them in their preffered positions or simply drop them. Thats been the Sharks biggest mistake but then who am I to tell you wise lot?

  • Comment 117, posted at 22.11.11 14:49:29 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 116) : See thats what I mean. Luddick is/was a 15, now you want him in 13? Not making any sense. I just hope you lot dont kill Riaan Viljoen also in the processed. Flippen talented and wish WeePee could have got him.

  • Comment 118, posted at 22.11.11 14:51:42 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • By the way AD Jacobs should have played 12 all his life. Remember the late Ettiene Botha? AD use to put him in space as easy as pie.

  • Comment 119, posted at 22.11.11 14:53:52 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @PaarlBok (Comment 117) : @PaarlBok (Comment 118) :

    jy sien nou dat Lionsworld af is moet ons die lot bietjie kom tou wys maak ;)

  • Comment 120, posted at 22.11.11 14:54:37 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @PaarlBok (Comment 117) : Are you aware that MJ played 12 a lot while he was in France? Doesn’t matter where you play him. He’s useless.

  • Comment 121, posted at 22.11.11 14:56:12 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 120) : Hello Zibbie, wat gaan daar aan my mater? Ek verlang vir dood na my pap en sous.

  • Comment 122, posted at 22.11.11 14:57:29 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Ben (Comment 121) : You obvious dont have any clue about useless. :roll:

  • Comment 123, posted at 22.11.11 14:58:41 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @PaarlBok: plum also suggested ludik as an option at13 (but that was already (wo seasons ago_before the start of the ’10 sr season).seems the thinking is to contract backline players who can play more than one pos perhaps at the sharks?
    Freddie as 9 but then as fh ( though he can play 9 and that is why he was contracted for initially in sr season),
    Now viljoen.before him ludik and the mention he is an option at 13.lambie has played 3 diff positions,hoffman is another player who one could also bracket as utility back_though I think I’ve only seen or heard of him play @9 for the sharks thus far( but it is only his first season :-| ).paul jordaan been invited to training camp and he has been at a few positions it would also seem.
    Just get us a backline coach.. :-|

  • Comment 124, posted at 22.11.11 15:00:57 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @PaarlBok (Comment 123) : Okay let’s see how he holds up in SR against some of the best centres in the world.

  • Comment 125, posted at 22.11.11 15:01:04 by Ben Reply
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  • @PaarlBok (Comment 119) : I remember those games for the Valke. Adi at his absolute best. He was a class act along with Ethienne Botha. However rugby has changed a lot since then. I’m not even sure that if Tim Horan was somehow an up and coming youngster all over again that he’d even play 12 and he was pretty much as good as they get.

  • Comment 126, posted at 22.11.11 15:01:54 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Ben: @PaarlBok: wouldve been nice if we had the 2004 version of mj.. 7,8 years on.. I dunno.. Would love for him to show me wrong big time :-D

  • Comment 127, posted at 22.11.11 15:04:54 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • I actually think Marius must rather stick to 12. I don’t think he should wear 13 again.

    People have to accept that the demands on Superugby are huge. It’s a much faster game than the club rugby played in Europe. For any back the wrong side of 30, it’s going to be a challenge keeping up. FH and FB are just about the only places left for a golden oldie back to hide.

  • Comment 128, posted at 22.11.11 15:10:23 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 124) :

    Yup, Cattle Trading.

  • Comment 129, posted at 22.11.11 15:11:08 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @beet (Comment 126) : Beet my friend we all know AD was never the best defender but he sure can destribute and have an eye for space. Thats what you need for a 12. Jouba is a 13 or maybe winger, finisher but he sure still have some gas left in his tank.

    I know Conrad Hoffman quite well, seen him since his u14 days and know he is a very good place kicker and can play 10 or 15 if needed. He first have to mature in the 9 position. You obvious dont want a second Ruaan Pienaar, do you? He still have to find his feet on this level.

  • Comment 130, posted at 22.11.11 15:11:24 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @beet (Comment 128) : If that means having MJ on the bench for Meyer Bosman. I’m all for that! :)

  • Comment 131, posted at 22.11.11 15:14:22 by Ben Reply
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  • @PaarlBok (Comment 122) :

    self self !!! nee ek wetie .. dis baie baie stil en dood … moet dalk by die baas hoor ?

  • Comment 132, posted at 22.11.11 15:15:32 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @PaarlBok (Comment 118) : I agree with you that Ludik is a 15, but he is good there without being exceptional. I have for a long time thought he should play 13. Altho arguably his best performances for the Sharks have been on the wing! Riaan Viljoen offers something quite different to 15 that the Sharks havnt had in a while and that is a player with a big boot and a good running game. So i think he will be the starting 15.

  • Comment 133, posted at 22.11.11 15:16:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • ” Jouba is a 13 or maybe winger, finisher but he sure still have some gas left in his tank.”

    You have got to be kidding me! Have you watched him play in the last 5 years? :roll:

  • Comment 134, posted at 22.11.11 15:17:27 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 131) : Bos kak, you must be kidding. But its your team, Boskak dont understand the word defense.

  • Comment 135, posted at 22.11.11 15:18:55 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 132) : ja wat , laat ek maar sny, sal hom maar ‘n PM gooi en hoor hoe ver hulle vorder. BlikBrein, die man wat hom uitgedink het se ma moes hom doodgele het. :idea:

  • Comment 136, posted at 22.11.11 15:21:01 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • One way or another the Sharks centres will surprise me in 2012..they will either suprise me and catch the ball and tackle..or they will drop the ball and miss tackles and ill be surprised if they dont get hit with an orange or 3 from the stands!

  • Comment 137, posted at 22.11.11 15:40:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • :-D :-D

  • Comment 138, posted at 22.11.11 15:51:07 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     

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