robdylan

Stormers bolster halfback ranks


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Stormers, Super Rugby on 23 Nov 2011 at 07:37
Tagged with : , , , , , , ,

The Stormers have confirmed that out-of-contract flyhalf Burton Francis is training with their Super Rugby squad in the hopes of securing a deal ahead of the 2012 competition.

Francis, who left the Bulls a few years back to join the Lions in the interests of more gametime fell rapidly down the Lions pecking order last year, despite a bright start to his career there. With the Stormers forced to rely on a successively inexperienced bunch of flyhalf options last year following injury problems, along with the expected late arrival of Peter Grant from Japan, the door would appear to be slightly ajar for a player of Francis’s calibre and experience to force his way in ahead of the likes of Kurt Coleman or Gary van Aswegen.

A number of Boland players will also come into the Stormers reckoning next year, including veteran former-Bok scrumhalf Bolla Conradie, who is currently training with the side. Another promising flyhalf, Bolander Elgar Watts, is currently recovering from an operation, but may also come into the selection frame once fully fit.



93 Comments

  • Some reason I thought Burton Francis had signed for Boland a few weeks ago. :???:

    Stormers should be looking for a starting flyhalf, not players who they can go to in case of an emergency!

    Won’t go down well with some, but I really think Derick Hougaard would’ve been a very good signing. He’s got everything we get from Peter Grant, but also brings a better tactical kicking game and better decision-making.

  • Comment 1, posted at 23.11.11 07:41:31 by hendrikp Reply
    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Burton Francis is a better player then Kurt Coleman.

    Coleman got spoon-fed through the few games he played for the Stormers. Nothing to get excited about.

  • Comment 2, posted at 23.11.11 07:42:42 by hendrikp Reply
    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • So he will be #3 maybe 4 if he is contracted.

    1. Grant
    2. Catrikilis
    3. Joe Pietersen

    Maybe the Stormers are expecting another season of playing 10players at #10.

  • Comment 3, posted at 23.11.11 07:47:06 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 3) :

    1. Gary van Aswegen
    2. Peter Grant
    3. Joe Pietersen
    4. Elgar Watts
    5. Dimitri Catrakilis
    6. Burton Francis
    7. Kurt Coleman

    And I’d start moving Dillyn Leyds into the middle of that list somewhere. A heck of a lot of average flyhalves hey! Hopefully Gary van Aswegen can stay fit for once.

  • Comment 4, posted at 23.11.11 07:50:25 by hendrikp Reply
    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • So that would mean that the WP youngsters will be looking for a place to play next year…seems its not only the Sharks who dont have space for every youngster. Francis is a decent player though..but Conradie-surely not…unless there putting a legends side into the comp!

  • Comment 5, posted at 23.11.11 07:51:01 by SheldonK Reply
    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 4) : Has Sam Lane definitely left?

  • Comment 6, posted at 23.11.11 08:02:34 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 6) : I heard he was already in OZ and training with some team…cant remember which though

  • Comment 7, posted at 23.11.11 08:04:11 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @beet (Comment 6) :

    Yes. Signed with the Rebels I think.

  • Comment 8, posted at 23.11.11 08:16:55 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • So the Lions fly half stock looks as follows :

    1) Elton Jantjies
    2) Butch james
    3) Guy Cronje
    4) Hein Cronje

  • Comment 9, posted at 23.11.11 08:28:01 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 1) : Hougaard has hardly set the premiership alight either at Leicester or Saracens – he is currently third in line for the 10 jersey at Saracens behind Hodgeson and Farrell.
    He is a very good kicker of the ball from deep in the pocket but IMO that is about it.
    Grant is not as good a kicker but is miles ahead in his passing game, defence, and getting across the advantage line.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Strauli didn’t try and sign Hougaard – he is Strauli’s ideal 10 and he was after all the man who put DH in a green and gold jersey in what was possibly the worst period of Bok rugby that I have ever had the misfortune to witness.

  • Comment 10, posted at 23.11.11 08:34:46 by steve Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @steve (Comment 10) :

    Grants goalkicking was great last year.

  • Comment 11, posted at 23.11.11 08:37:08 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @steve (Comment 10) :

    Hougaard has had injury problems. Has nothing to do with him being ‘behind’ those players necessarily.

    I’ve seen enough of Hougaard to know he can cut it with the best.

    Peter Grant doesn’t get across the advantage line. On offense he’s really just another pair of hands.

    His defense is good though, and he’s a good goalkicker, but he’s not going to win anything.

  • Comment 12, posted at 23.11.11 08:38:51 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 12) : We must remember that for most of his career Grant has had a Bok centre or 2 outside him for WP so im sure the coaching instructions were to get the ball to them as soon as possible. Grant is a very attacking player…i remember him tearing defenses apart for College and later Maties. Hougaard seems to thrive in the Loftus environment and with the current group of backline players (Meisiekind excluded) the Bulls backline play could just mean a very different Hougaard and Morne Steyn next year.

  • Comment 13, posted at 23.11.11 08:45:38 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 8) : Sam Lane has joined the Brumbies Academy as far as I know.

  • Comment 14, posted at 23.11.11 08:45:53 by StevieS Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 12) : But as I remember DH, he isn’t exactly a gainline player. He’s slow on his feet. His vision is below avg and his passing game isn’t great. Has Eng Club rugby cured some of these things? They’ve worked some magic with guys like Percy and Stef in various depts of their play, so won’t be surprised if he’s improved but find it hard to believe nonetheless.

  • Comment 15, posted at 23.11.11 08:48:13 by beet Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 1) : Strangely enough I agree with you on this one.Liefling has a cool head on his shoulders and can punt the ball miles onto a pinhead if he needed to.

    @hendrikp (Comment 2) : Yep, most of the play came from Duvenage

  • Comment 16, posted at 23.11.11 08:48:15 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 14) : Do you follow schools or junior rugby in the W/Cape quite closely by any chance?

  • Comment 17, posted at 23.11.11 08:49:19 by beet Reply
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  • I’m still a big fan of Peter Grant

  • Comment 18, posted at 23.11.11 08:49:25 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 13) : Have to agree with you about Grant’s attacking skills. See if you can find footage of Grant playing for Natal at Craven Week in 2002 vs The Bulls, he tore them to shreds, scored a number of tries and won the game single-handed.

  • Comment 19, posted at 23.11.11 08:49:53 by StevieS Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 16) :

    Liefling would be a great fit in that Stormers backline. Too many players who are known as great attackers, but can’t score any damn tries.

    With Hougaard I know we’ll at least be in the right positions on the field. We’ll have a good decision maker who can manage a game properly.

  • Comment 20, posted at 23.11.11 08:50:56 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @beet (Comment 17) : Sorry no, I was in Durban for a while, so knew a lot of the schools and club players. Just a huge rugby fan, so follow the news closely. By the way, Jacobs apparently wants to join the Stormers.

  • Comment 21, posted at 23.11.11 08:52:12 by StevieS Reply
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    StevieSSuper Rugby player
     
  • I said it a few weeks ago.

    Peter Grant should’ve been a 12.

    It’s just a shame he ended up with Province at a time when they needed a 10, and had more then enough players who could play 12.

  • Comment 22, posted at 23.11.11 08:53:24 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 22) : I remember when he played 12 for a while and was great.Hell he played 12 outside Willem de Waal and looked great.

  • Comment 23, posted at 23.11.11 08:56:12 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 22) : Wow! Nice to hear someone else say it. My bro and I have been saying this for years! It would be like a Dan Carter/Aaron Mauger combo with 2 flyhalves on the field.

  • Comment 24, posted at 23.11.11 08:56:31 by StevieS Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 24) : Im also a big fan of play makers at 10 & 12, but a lot of SA sides like 9 to be their play maker which means your 12 has to be a hard runner or you will be caught behind advantage line.

  • Comment 25, posted at 23.11.11 09:08:14 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @StevieS (Comment 24) :

    He’s no 10.

    Important part of being a good attacking team is managing territory. Playing rugby in the right part of the field.

    While I really like Grant, his tactical kicking game is shocking. I mean really bad.

    I met him in Dunedin a few years ago. Spoke to him for a good 10 minutes in a pub down there and he is a genuine good guy! Nothing personal, just don’t think he’s cut out to be playing 10 for us.

    Wouldn’t mind him pushing JdV for the 12 jersey though!

  • Comment 26, posted at 23.11.11 09:11:55 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 25) :

    9 to be the playmaker? I don’t think that’s true of SA sides at all.

    Having a hard runner at 12 means options when you’re on the backfoot. Crash ball is mistake-free (pretty much). I’d never even contemplate selecting a smaller guy at 12, they’re just not up to the workload on defense especially.

    Everybody does it besides Australia. It’s not a SA thing.

  • Comment 27, posted at 23.11.11 09:14:44 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 25) :

    If anything we’ve lacked playmakers in that inside-back channel.

    Francois Hougaard may change the trend.

    But Fourie du Preez was a ‘manager’ rather then someone who sparked things.

  • Comment 28, posted at 23.11.11 09:15:47 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 28) : Fourie Du Preez was the Bulls only play maker! Steyn or Hougaard was so deep in the pocket u could barely see them from rucks and Olivier just runs straight! Pienaar,Kockett,Duvenage,Vermaak,Pretorious…all 9s in this country that all play makers. Id say only McCloed,Hoffman,Bondesio and Van Zyl from cheetahs are 9s that just clear rucks and get the ball to their 10s etc.

  • Comment 29, posted at 23.11.11 09:38:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 29) :

    Duvenage & Vermaak should be in the ‘non play-makers’ lot.

    And you can stick McLeod and Hoffmann in the ‘play-makers’ pile.

    McLeod makes too many mistakes when he’s trying things though, and to be fair to Hoffmann, he’s spent 90% of the last 3 years either injured or on the bench.

    Hoffmann and Pienaar I would call very similar players.

  • Comment 30, posted at 23.11.11 09:42:34 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 29) : @hendrikp (Comment 30) : To me Jano is definitely a playmaker.

  • Comment 31, posted at 23.11.11 10:07:03 by beet Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 30) : What made McCloed a Bok in 2010 is that he was the quickest 9 in the country to the ruck and the ball was gone before the opposition had a chance to slow it down. What made him fall out the Bok loop in 2011 was, injury aside, the fact that he now picked up from the ruck and tried too much himself. Same goes for the likes of Pienaar and Kockett…they strayed from what made them good!

  • Comment 32, posted at 23.11.11 10:08:56 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @beet (Comment 31) :

    Fair enough. I’d put him in the Dewaldt Duvenage mould of making the right decisions, but not necessarily being dangerous as a runner & creating opportunities close-in. Sarel Pretorius & Will Genia were the best play-makers in Super Rugby 2011.

    Anyway. Got another question for you:

    If you had to pick a squad with only 4 props in it, would you risk two specialist loose-heads?

    Reason I ask is because I think you need at least 3 players that can play tighthead. Preferably you’d have at least two players who can play on both sides (to go with a loosehead & tighthead).

  • Comment 33, posted at 23.11.11 10:11:26 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • I’d like to see Elgar Watts get a chance next year. He has been great and have experience.

    Scrummies , Dewaldt Duvenhage followed by Groom and Louis.

    @Beet: Any news on Anton Hauptfleisch Boet?

    Pretty sure young Handre Pollard have all the talent to become a Bok in future. He sure have the whole package.

    Lane is back to Aus Nat Academy.

  • Comment 34, posted at 23.11.11 10:13:28 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 33) :

    Jano an excellent support player though which has him scoring a lot of tries.

    What I’d like to see our halfbacks doing more often is picking up the ball, drawing in the guys close-in to the ruck before offloading to someone close by.

    Genia has perfected it. Fourie du Preez & Francois Hougaard got us past Wales with just that. Sarel Pretorius another who did it well.

  • Comment 35, posted at 23.11.11 10:14:27 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 33) : I think the prop situation would all depend on who the props were. If u have an experienced tighthead that isnt injury prone then i dont know if u need 3. A lot of youngsters these days are learinign to play both sides as it enhances their chance sof getting picked in squads and teams due to their ability to play both sides.

  • Comment 36, posted at 23.11.11 10:16:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 33) : I would tend to go with 2+2 specialists for SR for most of the season. However on the Australasian leg, depending on squad size, it wud definitely be more beneficial to have the TH who could play LH, so 3TH+1LH if limited to 4

    It’s not something we’ve had to consider much as Sharks with John Smit around, however now that you’ve mentioned it, we’ll have to pay more close attention. Fortunately Eugene and Jannie can play on both sides.

  • Comment 37, posted at 23.11.11 10:20:12 by beet Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 36) :

    See but if you have two specialist looseheads, you’re limiting your options in who you can select in the match-22.

    One will always miss out.

    You’d have 2 props who would have to be starting no matter what, and be in a bad situation if either got injured.

    I’m thinking about the Gurthro Steenkamp & Beast Mtawarira situation.

    What’s the point in including both when you can only have 1 in your match-22? The other is just a passenger. Wouldn’t it make more sense to include a player who can cover both sides?

  • Comment 38, posted at 23.11.11 10:21:14 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 38) :

    So for example.

    The next Bok coach selects Jannie du Plessis & CJ van der Linde as his tightheads.

    Jannie is the obvious starter at 3. No worries.
    CJ can cover both sides so is an excellent choice on the bench, but can also start at 3.

    Who do you pick as your looseheads?

    I’d say you go with Coenie as one of them (who I rate, but forget about what you think about him for a minute) because he is another that can either start, or play off the bench.

    If you were to pick both Beast & Gurthro, you’re in a situation where you’ve got a player who is only in the team to cover another loosehead, and can’t even be seen as a realistic option off the bench.

    If you can’t include both in a match-22, should you pick both? My answer would be no.

  • Comment 39, posted at 23.11.11 10:26:28 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @PaarlBok (Comment 34) : Rob will know how Gavin Hauptfleisch is doing.

    I’m really looking forward to watching Pollard in 2012. He was nothing short of spectacular vs Glenwood this year. He’s going to have his work cut out for him tho. Me and everyone else that will be going to the Kearsney Fest in 2012 will get to see him, Pieter Jordaan (Paul’s brother at GCB), Johan Stander (Queens) and Jaco vd Walt (the Monnas, Lions and SA Sch current flyhalf) in action at the same venue for 3 match days.

  • Comment 40, posted at 23.11.11 10:28:49 by beet Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 39) : Yeh i think you right there. The Beast/Guthro situation is a like for like and would be a luxury to include both. So would ur bench mostly be a 4/3 spilt?

  • Comment 41, posted at 23.11.11 10:37:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 41) :

    I’d be all for a 5-2 split if we have a settled backline, and retain Ruan Pienaar.

    But then I’d also go for 5 props in the squad, and include 4 of them in the match-22.

    Have to always have 2 players capable of playing tighthead in the match-22, and 3 players in the wider squad in case one gets injured.

    If I could select 5, I’d probably go..

    Gurthro Steenkamp
    Coenie Oosthuizen
    Beast Mtawarira
    WP Nel or CJ van der Linde
    Jannie du Plessis

  • Comment 42, posted at 23.11.11 10:56:18 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @beet (Comment 40) : Beet do you have any detail on that festivals. Also looking forward to the Wilde Klawer one.

    Paarl Gim look set for a good year and I am expecting a very strong and competitive WC U18 competition. Bishops and specially Wynberg and Rondebosch will be stronger then ever.

    Paarl Gims 2012 program:
    http://www.paarlgim.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=337:rugby-2012&catid=35

    saw Handre in church on sunday, got his Boere matric.

    Myself will walk much more line at the High School next year, my laatlammetjie will be U14 and looking forward to it.

  • Comment 43, posted at 23.11.11 11:08:51 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 42) : Im not a big fan of a 5-2 split to be honest. Id go with a 4/3 spilt 98% of the time. Im not a WP Nel or CJ fan and if i could pick from overseas based players i would probably include Brian Mujati and Heinke Vd Merwe instead. Having said that i think only SA based players should be picked! So that counts Steenkamp out. Who would your 2 backline on the bench be?

  • Comment 44, posted at 23.11.11 11:10:25 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 44) :

    Thing I like about it is forwards becoming more ‘worn-out’ throughout the game, and you tend to get a much bigger impact from bringing on a forward – one that can be deemed an ‘impact player’ anyway.

    I’m a fan of WP Nel. He’s a heck of a lot better then Werner Kruger anyway who became a Bok ahead of him.

    If I went 5-2 split, backs would be:
    - Ruan Pienaar
    - One of Jean De Villiers, Franna Venter, Juan de Jongh & Johann Sadie.

  • Comment 45, posted at 23.11.11 11:36:55 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 45) :

    Way I put it up the other day on Keo was

    Best backline:
    9 Francois Hougaard
    10 Johan Goosen / Elton Jantjies
    11 Bryan Habana
    12 Francois Steyn
    13 Jaque Fourie
    14 JP Pietersen
    15 Patrick Lambie

    Second best Backline:
    9 Ruan Pienaar
    10 Elton Jantjies / Johan Goosen
    11 Gio Aplon
    12 Jean de Villiers
    13 Juan de Jongh
    14 Johann Sadie
    15 Jaco Taute

    Unlucky: Francois Venter & Robert Ebersohn

    - I’m on the Goosen bandwagon and having problems getting off. Will need to see average at SR level before I’m convinced he’s not our best 10.

    - Lambie at fullback. I know I know. Just my opinion on where he adds the best value for the Boks. 10 for the Sharks, 15 for the Springboks. I don’t think Jaco Taute is good enough to be starting 15 for the Springboks yet.

    - Habana still our best left-winger. Don’t tell me no-skill Mvovo, please! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 46, posted at 23.11.11 12:02:19 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 46) : I do agree with you mostly to be honest. I agree Lambie adds the most value at 15 for the Boks and yes Habana still adds a lot of value. Im of the opinion that there should be fairly good goal kicker on the bench so i may lean towards having a M.Steyn/Goosen etc on the bench with a guy like De Jong or even Habana off the bench. i do see the merits of a 5/2 split for internationals but 4/3 would be better for Super Rugby.

  • Comment 47, posted at 23.11.11 12:17:02 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 47) :

    4/3 definitely at SR level yes.

    I’m sort of the opinion that if we aren’t going to continue with Morne Steyn as the starting flyhalf, then there needs to be a clean break.

    He offers little value elsewhere, and I’m guessing we’re looking at playing a more rounded game where the flyhalf would put his outside backs into attacking positions – no reason for Morne Steyn to be included.

  • Comment 48, posted at 23.11.11 12:24:06 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 47) :

    My good goalkicker on the bench would be Ruan Pienaar.

  • Comment 49, posted at 23.11.11 12:25:15 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 49) : So you would start with Hougaard at 9 and Pienaar bench? Not tempted to go with a Sarel Pretorius or Duvenage? So Pienaar on the bench with De Jong/JDV (assuming F. Steyn at 12). And the 5 forwards? which guys would make the biggest impact off the bench?

  • Comment 50, posted at 23.11.11 12:41:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 50) :

    I think a lot of players could make an impact off the bench.

    Gurthro probably more so then Beast, but I’d probably look at Coenie Oosthuizen as the bench loosehead option because of that big workrate.

    Chiliboy’s done well coming off. I’d probably, in an ideal world, give it to Adriaan Strauss who’s in my opinion the 2nd best hooker in the world, but I rate Chiliboy.

    I think Juandre Kruger or Andries Bekker, whichever one ends up taking the bench-spot (rather then starting) would make a good impact lock.

    And Willem Alberts has proven himself as an impact player, but I also think Ashley Johnson would be good off the bench if ever needed to play that role.

  • Comment 51, posted at 23.11.11 12:52:03 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 50) :

    And no, I wouldn’t be tempted by either Sarel or Dewaldt.

    Sarel Pretorius defensively is shocking, and moving to the Waratahs will count against him. Not interested.

    And Dewaldt Duvenage is no threat at halfback. To be honest I’d rather trade him with you guys to get Carel Hoffmann back. Hoffmann had more x-factor to him, and we might be able to get more out of him.

  • Comment 52, posted at 23.11.11 12:54:43 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 52) : No we keeping Hoffman thanks, he will come good here if given the chance. I agree that Gurthro would make more impact than Beast. Id like Bekker to start and not sold on Kruger yet.Many wud disagree but Wickus Van Heerdan has been very good at lock and would do well off the bench. Alberts is a good bench option but what about a guy like Brussouw off the bench and Francious Louw wasnt half bad against the Ozzies hey…mayb needs another shot if he ever returns to SA. im not an Ashley Johnson fan…think his game still needs a lot of work and he isnt international quality. If Juan Smith can ever stay injury free the loose trio selection will be interesting

  • Comment 53, posted at 23.11.11 13:00:59 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 53) :

    If everyone is fit, and they are willing to select overseas players, I don’t think we can look past:

    1 Gurthro Steenkamp
    2 Bismarck du Plessis
    3 Jannie du Plessis
    4 Flip van der Merwe
    5 Andries Bekker
    6 Heinrich Brussow
    7 Juan Smith (c) – He’d have to be captain if fit.
    8 Schalk Burger

    - Flip van der Merwe being the only one who I’d say I’m putting my neck out for. He needs some big performances or he’ll have Rynhardt Elstadt taking his place. Elstadt led ‘Line-outs Stolen’ in 2011 Super Rugby by the way. Had 14 from memory.

  • Comment 54, posted at 23.11.11 13:07:21 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 54) : U have just lost all credibility saying Flip Vd Merwe! haha HE would have to cut his penalty count by plenty if he wants to be selected and im afriad his record has meant the selectors looking past him already. I would pick Hendrik Roodt over him. I have serious doubts over the fitness of Brussouw and Smith so captaincy would go to Burger with Alberts and shock pick Derrick Minnie completing the loose trio. Id pick Brussouw and Wickus Van Heerdan on the bench with probably Chilliboy and Coenie if i were to gamble.

  • Comment 55, posted at 23.11.11 13:11:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK: left field call? How about adding some more meat to juan smith and making him a 4 lock in the bakkies mould?but @hendrikp: elstadt has been a revelation at lock.

  • Comment 56, posted at 23.11.11 13:12:59 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK: dunno if we can pick minnie ahead of brussow just yet..

  • Comment 57, posted at 23.11.11 13:18:10 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 57) :

    Or ever.

    Jeez I thought people on SharksWorld were clued on. But that one was a shocker.

    @SheldonK (Comment 55) :

    Saying Wikus should be on the bench is like saying Oupa should’ve gone to the World Cup. Heck no.

    And never in a billion years is Minnie better then Brussow. That’s a shocker right there man!

    If you mean Brussow gets injured too often… if a guy comes in from the side with his shoulder into your ribs, you’re going to get injured! It’s not like he tweaked a hamstring or something.

  • Comment 58, posted at 23.11.11 13:21:17 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Also, Flip van der Merwe conceded 5 penalties in 365 minutes of Super Rugby in 2011.

    It’s a little bit on the high side, but not something to be overly concerned about.

    Not when you consider Coenie Oosthuizen conceded 36! :lol:

  • Comment 59, posted at 23.11.11 13:23:06 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp: you funny guy :-D

  • Comment 60, posted at 23.11.11 13:30:23 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • I wouldn’t even talk about Minnie as a Springbok. Not even close.

    We only have one openside in SA, and that is Heinrich Brussow. When he gets injured, we’re screwed.

    Francois Louw was never a suitable replacement. More of a blindside then he ever was an openside!

    Schalk would probably still be our 2nd best option in the 6 jersey. There, I said it! :mrgreen:

    Loosies would have to be drawn from:
    6 Heinrich Brussow
    7 Juan Smith / Willem Alberts / Ashley Johnson / Duane Vermeulen
    8 Schalk Burger / (And I think you’ll soon find… Nick Koster)

    That’s excluding the likes of Arno Botha, Jacques Potgieter & Marcell Coetzee, who I’d like to see more of at SR level first.

  • Comment 61, posted at 23.11.11 13:34:16 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 60) :

    Why thank you :mrgreen:

  • Comment 62, posted at 23.11.11 13:36:15 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 58) : Id pick Brussouw and Smith if they were both fit but they both havnt played a full season in years so u can surely see my doubt? Minnie was the best in the CC this year so thats why my pick. Id go with Flo but he is taking a Bath. Van Heerdan isnt old for a lock…Brad Thorn just won a RWC medal! Yeh between Coenie and Flip the ref wud get tired of giving penalties. Who knows mayb Eugene come sback from France and can push for a place…anyone but Werner Kruger or Greyling…and nobody say Cilliers..he is still looking for his head up his ass.

  • Comment 63, posted at 23.11.11 13:37:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 61) : If your placing all your bets on Brussouw i think u better donate your knees! And i cant believe u said Koster…a year ago he wanted to play wing…mayb u should wait a bit he may want to play 10 next year! Schalk at 6 with Alberts and dare i say Josh Struass.

  • Comment 64, posted at 23.11.11 13:41:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 63) :

    Eugene probably wouldn’t make a bad option off the bench for the Springboks actually! I like that one. Unlikely though considering minimal game-time with the Sharks.

    Minnie being alright at CC level matters little when you consider Brussow was mixing it up with the best. You can’t ever put Brussow on the bench behind Minnie. That’s just craziness right there man! Is it hot in SA or something! :mrgreen:

    And Wikus ain’t much of a lock. To be honest I can’t really see the logic in having him in the ’4′ jersey with Rhodes in the ’7′ jersey when they are performing each others roles everywhere but in the scrums.

  • Comment 65, posted at 23.11.11 13:42:30 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 64) :

    Koster didn’t want to play wing. He was played there because, as Allister said, that was the only position he was going to get game-time.

    AC & Rassie actually said something along the lines of: It’s better for Koster to get game-time playing on the wing, rather then waiting his turn to play in the loose-forwards and not playing there.

    Josh Strauss also isn’t Springbok quality hey! I think you will change your mind on a lot of the Lions player when Super Rugby starts. Strauss does get around the field quite well though, I’ll give him that, but he doesn’t compete with the best loose-forwards in SA.

  • Comment 66, posted at 23.11.11 13:48:39 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 66) : Im still not convinced about a lot of guys, Koster being 1 of them, Minnie too. Just to tip the apple cart…do u remember the 1 scrum at RWC we had a lock off so Schalk went to lock-ive never seen our scrum go forward so quickly! I also think Spies still has a bit to add to the Boks. Having watched Johnson and Deysel this year i dont think they are Bok material. Strauss reminds me of Gary Teichman and perhaps just needs a bit more experience. So realistically if and when Brussouw is forced to sit and watch then who is next? Flo in the Bath or who?

  • Comment 67, posted at 23.11.11 13:57:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 67) :

    If Brussow was forced to sit and watch… heck that one is tough.

    I’ll rate them like this:
    1 Heinrich Brussow
    2 Schalk Burger
    3 Francois Louw
    ———————
    4 Derick Minnie
    5 Keegan Daniel
    6 Deon Stegmann

    But after Francois Louw I’d probably give up on having an ‘openside’ and look at somebody out of position. Any of the other loose-forwards basically.

    Ashley Johnson I thought played rather well for the Boks. Was a bit surprised he didn’t go ahead of Francois Louw. One of our very best ball-carriers in my opinion. Able to put his head down like Willem Alberts and just gain yards. Rate him very very highly, if only he would stop missing so many tackles!

    Nick Koster was statistically our best attacking loose-forward. I’m thinking general improvement, alongside much more game-time now that Francois Louw has moved, will mean him forcing his way into the Bok squad. Remember, you heard it here first.

    Pierre Spies is too weak in contact hey. Another who misses tackles like crazy, and when carrying the ball, if they get their hands on him, he gets tossed around. I’ve said it before, those chicken legs might make him fast, but they do sweet f-all for a loose-forward in traffic.

  • Comment 68, posted at 23.11.11 14:09:21 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 68) : No not Daniel or Stegman for the Boks please! Johnson misses too many tackles and it a tight game he goes missing too. I honestly thought Kanko had a great year this year. People say he hardly had any of his trademark runs but those were the same people that asked for him to get stuck in the tight exchanges which is exactly what he did this year. And he improved his tackle count. As much as i think Brussouw adds value, i think the Bok loose trio is going to be without him more often than not im afraid. Alberts and Burger must play in my opinion, so its just that 1 spot to fill. Same as if Bekker is fit there is 1 lock space available.

  • Comment 69, posted at 23.11.11 14:15:02 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) :

    How can you say they’ll be without Brussow more often then not?

    He’s not injury prone, he’s just had some unlucky injuries.

    Not like he’s running around pulling hamstrings etc. Things just haven’t gone his way.

    We need depth in case of injury, but that’s no reason to basically write him off!

    You don’t maybe have something against the Cheetahs do you? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 70, posted at 23.11.11 14:20:43 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 70) : He has had a bad run of injuries and some players struggle to come back from that and the injuries repeat etc especially if they are rushed back. Like i said he hasnt played a full season in a bout 3yrs i think. So lets see him make it through that first then we can talk bout him playing for the Boks, same with Juan Smith. So yes if i was Bok coach i wouldnt be hedging all my bets on Brussouw being there..i would look to invest in other guys and if Brussouw is available then great, but if not then at least i have someone who is fit and in form and in the structures etc.

  • Comment 71, posted at 23.11.11 14:33:38 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 71) :

    I think you’re being unreasonable with Brussow and his injuries. And he’s only missed 2010 and then about half of 2011.

    He came back from that with a few HUGE displays straight back from injury. Not one to take his time getting back into it.

    If we had to look elsewhere because of injuries, then every single player should be in the same boat as Heinrich Brussow. We can’t look at Bismarck du Plessis as a sure thing either then, because he might get injured.

  • Comment 72, posted at 23.11.11 15:05:25 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 72) : I dont think im being unreasonbale, im just not pinning all my hope son Brussouw. i think the Boks can do fine if he is out. I mean Pocock made him his b*tch in the short time he was on the field in that q/final. And Flo stood up to Pocock pretty well for the rest of the game. Since his debut how many Bok games has Brussouw missed? I hope he does come through his injuries, but i wont be holding my breath

  • Comment 73, posted at 23.11.11 15:24:56 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • What about Warren Whitley, when he gets some more experience, he was the best defender in the 2010 CC not missing a tackle and he hardly missed this year. He is also a strong ball carrier and he has pace. I think in a couple of years if he gets game time will be the 1st choice bok no8

  • Comment 74, posted at 23.11.11 17:26:18 by Mutley Reply
    Author
    MutleyTeam captain
     
  • @Mutley (Comment 74) :

    I think not.

    But I’ve enjoyed his game. Good Super Rugby player who might even push Michael Rhodes into lock sooner then later.

  • Comment 75, posted at 24.11.11 09:44:26 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Mutley (Comment 74) : Maak die Lions almal Bokke! :roll:

  • Comment 76, posted at 24.11.11 09:47:29 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Mutley (Comment 74) : Whitely is a very good player but i cant see him forcing his way into the Lions loose trio unless Rhodes moves to lock!

  • Comment 77, posted at 24.11.11 10:13:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • in other news … : The Lions are doing a bit of cleaning … i dont really agree with anything said in this article but the players named have been released

    http://www.ruggaworld.com/2011/11/24/lions-prune-viciously-from-pride/

  • Comment 78, posted at 24.11.11 15:05:30 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 78) : So is it off to the Leopards and pumas for those released then??

  • Comment 79, posted at 24.11.11 15:15:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 79) :

    well at the current rate the Stormers are signing players ….

  • Comment 80, posted at 24.11.11 15:23:22 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 80) : haha good point

  • Comment 81, posted at 24.11.11 15:31:55 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 78) : ag ja – it’s true those okes have been let go, but our old friend David will never say anything in a nice way if there’s the option to say something spiteful.

  • Comment 82, posted at 24.11.11 15:44:34 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • he also leaves out one of the best ones to have been released – flank Renaldo Bothma.

    I also had no idea Ray was contracted to the Lions…

    I’m told that there’s something sinister going on there. Zibbie… can you check with your Lions maatjies?

    When last did anyone see Walter, BTW?

  • Comment 83, posted at 24.11.11 15:45:48 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : I have pmed walter and havent got a reply. Maybe should try Vleisboek.

  • Comment 84, posted at 24.11.11 16:04:33 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     
  • @PaarlBok (Comment 84) : ja… I haven’t heard from him in months

  • Comment 85, posted at 24.11.11 16:14:45 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 83) :

    Yea sad about Renaldo . he is a godo oke . but the problem is you cant have every good oke on your books . i meen heck .. we still had heno mentz on our books :shock:

    havent seen anything from walter in a while , his site has been down for 2 weeks now …

  • Comment 86, posted at 24.11.11 16:31:41 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 86) : really? I just got to it…

  • Comment 87, posted at 24.11.11 16:37:41 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 86) : oh – you mean the forum. Ja. That’s off.

    Must say, Iw as expecting WTR to be busier, given the CC Final result :)

  • Comment 88, posted at 24.11.11 16:38:28 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 88) :

    waiting for the new lions fans to find it :P

  • Comment 89, posted at 24.11.11 16:43:23 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 83) :

    ‘I’m told that there’s something sinister going on there. Zibbie… can you check with your Lions maatjies?’

    Hi Sinister in terms of what ?

    the players being let go ?

    its to my understanding that they do not feacher in John Mitchell’s plans … ?

  • Comment 90, posted at 24.11.11 16:48:25 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 89) : LOL…. classic :)

  • Comment 91, posted at 24.11.11 18:04:49 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 91) :

    hahah you know how it is … some how we lions fans cant just be happy and everything …

  • Comment 92, posted at 24.11.11 19:04:29 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • Stormers draw in a schoolboy, Bishopper and Craven Week 10 Timothy Swiel

    http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Stormers-turn-to-schoolboy-20111128

  • Comment 93, posted at 28.11.11 16:18:58 by PaarlBok Reply

    PaarlBokCurrie Cup player
     

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