robdylan

Six Sharks make Baby Bok cut


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks on 14 Dec 2011 at 07:18
Tagged with : , , , , , , , ,

SA Under 20 coach Dawie Theron has announced a trimmed-down 33-man squad to take part in a training camp in January, including six members of the Sharks junior structures. In a surprising move, Paul Jordaan has been included as a wing.

Former SA schools centre Jordaan has enjoyed little game time in his regular position since leaving Grey College at the end of 2010; he was used as a utility back by Theron during the 2010 Junior World Championships and found himself playing mostly at flyhalf for the Sharks under 21s this year. Bok Sevens players Craig Barry and William Small-Smith have also been included in the squad.

It’s up-front that the Sharks are best represented, though, with under 19 captain Allan Dell joining front-row team mates Franco Marais and Maks van Dyk in the squad. Flankers Khaya Majola and Siseko Jafta have both been included too, along with monster Puma (and soon to be Bulls) lock Jacques du Plessis, who played Craven Week in 2010.

A number of players were not included due to Super Rugby commitments – and those watching the meteoric rise of Sharks lock Pieter-Steph du Toit will note with interest that his name is included in this category, a pretty sure sign that he is a key part of the Sharks plans for Super Rugby in 2012. Other players to miss out for this reason include Johan Goosen, Stephen Kitshoff, Tshotsho Mbovane and Ruan Venter.

The SA Under-20 training squad is:

Fullbacks: Craig Barry, Marais Schmidt.
Wings: Travis Ismail, Jan de Klerk, Paul Jordaan.
Centres: Jan Serfontein, William Small-Smith, Mathys Smit, Kobus van Wyk.
Flyhalves: Tony Jantjies, Errol Jaggers.
Scrumhalves: Kevin Luiters, Rudi van Rooyen, Hlanhla Hlungwane, Vian van der Walt.
Loose forwards: Shaun Adendorf, Wian Liebenberg, Fabian Booysen, Khaya Majola, Siseko Jafta, Cobus Nel.
Locks: Ettiene Oosthuizen, Paul Willemse, Ruan Botha, Jacques du Plessis.
Props: Marzuq Maarman, Gideon Muller, Allan Dell, Nicolaas van Dyk.
Hookers: Jason Thomas, Mihlali Mpafi, Mark Pretorius, Franco Marais.



187 Comments

  • What’s this I hear about Dries Swanepoel doing his cruciate? Shame man, that’s awful… all the pace gone and he’s only 18 :(

  • Comment 1, posted at 14.12.11 07:30:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) :

    Same deal with Mbovane.

    Interesting that no regular nr. 8 was included. Jafta maybe end up playing there!?

  • Comment 2, posted at 14.12.11 07:36:27 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 2) : oh is it? did Mbovane also bust a knee? Shame, man.

    Ja… pity Guyzie Alexander didn’t make it.

    Jafts is so versatile…

  • Comment 3, posted at 14.12.11 07:39:48 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 3) :

    Pity about any Sharks player that didn’t make it hey ;-)

    According to that columnist from Keo named Gareth, Mbovane did a knee and will be out until well into 2012.

    Not sure when Ruan Venter will be back either. He’s been out for a very long time now :???:

  • Comment 4, posted at 14.12.11 07:44:15 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Dries Swanepoel out till mid 2012 for those knee ligaments.
    The fact that Jordaan is selected as a wing is indication that Jan Serfontein is the choice at 12.

  • Comment 5, posted at 14.12.11 08:02:49 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

    JustPlainSHARKCurrie Cup player
     
  • The inclusion of Jordaan at wing does make sense, its where he performed well for the 7s side, altho it seems his conditoning since then has deteriorated…hopefully he sorts himself out before next season. Will the guys involved in Super Rugby be pulled out the comp to go to World Cup? Just thinking of the rediculous Jaco Taute situation this year.

  • Comment 6, posted at 14.12.11 08:06:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : That’s the okie from Grey innit? One of the centres?

  • Comment 7, posted at 14.12.11 08:14:10 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 6) :

    Playing on the wing for a 7′s side is a lot different, don’t you think? Will be interesting to see whether he can make a success of it though, we are lacking in quality wingers in SA.

    Wasn’t just Taute. Marcell Coetzee missed out because he couldn’t attend training camps, as was Frans Malherbe, Scarra Ntubeni & Steven Kitshoff.

    @Ice (Comment 7) :

    That’s the one.

  • Comment 8, posted at 14.12.11 08:18:47 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JustPlainSHARK (Comment 5) :

    Bulls is probably the worst place Serfontein could be over the next 2-3 years!

    Looks pro-ready, but he’ll be sitting behind Wynand Olivier & Franna Venter as an inside-centre. :???:

  • Comment 9, posted at 14.12.11 08:21:46 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • 10 Blitz Bulle mooi mense.Sad to hear about Dries Swanepoel i hope he recovers from that terrible injury.

  • Comment 10, posted at 14.12.11 08:28:44 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • Jan Serfontein is the complete package at 12 he has the size,physicallity and skill.A big asset for the bulls.

  • Comment 11, posted at 14.12.11 08:31:40 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • I can not wait to see the Venter and Serfontein battle for the 12 jersey.Hope Francois stays injury free he has a history of getting long term injuries

  • Comment 12, posted at 14.12.11 08:34:02 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • Tony Jantjies you yster.A good back up for Goosen.Tony will be jolling for tukkies under 20s next year.Very improved player at 10 great job by paul anthony in developing little tony.

  • Comment 13, posted at 14.12.11 08:36:31 by Muzi Reply

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  • Well done to all the Sharks players in the squad and Shaun Adendorff. I’ve always rated Shaun even tho he didn’t make KZN Craven Week. Franco Marais is doing incredibly well to stay in the reckoning but then again he is the biggest of the hookers left if you overlook Maarman as a hooker.

    Even tho Willa S-S and Paul Jordaan formed one of the most lethal centre combos in the history of SBR, I fear that they will now be up against each other for the starting spot at 13. The wings are likely to be Mbovane and Ismael with JJ de Klerk and Errol Jaggers fighting it out for the 3rd spot in the squad if that’s available, seeing that Jordaan is being groomed to cover wing and Serfontein can also fill that gap.

    Will be interesting to see who gets the nod at no.9. Vian vd Watt is my fav by a long way this season. But Poerie is classy and young Hlungwane, even tho he has limited junior rugga experience proved to be a game-breaker at CW. Not sure about Luiters’ toughness tho.

    Nice to see Jacques du Plessis there. He’s a very mobile player for 2.01m and 116kgs. After the Greystaat centres and Stoney, he’s probably the 4th best player in SBR for 2011.

    Finally I just hope the Sharks are doing Pieter-Steph justice. JWC is a once in a lifetime oppo. PSdT is the best Sharks signing of 2011 and has star quality written all over his play but it seems a long shot for him to be a 2012 SR regular esp in the 1st half of the campaign. I really hope that Pieter-Steph as well as Goosen, Kitshoff, Mbovane and Venter are available for the JWC. They are all key players.

  • Comment 14, posted at 14.12.11 08:38:55 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 14) :

    Rumor has it, Mbovane has picked up a serious knee injury and won’t be back in time.

  • Comment 15, posted at 14.12.11 08:41:56 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • The biggest surprise of them all is glenwood and quick flank adendorff.Guy alexander was seen as a better player than shaun.Now look whose made the next round.Adendorff is very underrated a great signing by xander.

  • Comment 16, posted at 14.12.11 08:42:48 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • I question the selection of craig barry.Look without a doubt he is good but lets he honest bulls full back Juan Nel had a better season at 15.Barry is injury prone marais and juan have the size and pace imo.

  • Comment 17, posted at 14.12.11 08:46:00 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 8) : Yeh it is a bit different playing wing at 7s than 15s obviously but i just think he showed the attributes there that woukd serve him well as a wing as in the modern game a wing needs to have the same skill set as a centre only with more speed. And yeh i know there was more guys, i was just using Taute as an example cos he was taken staright from the super rugby side and then thrown into the team , and they wondered why things didnt gel.

  • Comment 18, posted at 14.12.11 08:47:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I would pick william small smith to partner serfontein.Jordaan is talented but he can only jol at wing and inside centre.William is strong defensively and he knows how to release and create space for his wings tactically very good.

  • Comment 19, posted at 14.12.11 08:50:14 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 18) :

    Funny you say that.

    “A wing needs to have the same skill set as a centre only with more speed”

    Yet we’re still talking of Mvovo as the starting 11 for the Boks :lol: :razz:

    @Muzi (Comment 17) :

    No idea, but I presume Barry, if he makes it to senior rugby, will eventually play on the wing :?:

  • Comment 20, posted at 14.12.11 08:50:25 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 11) : I dont think we should get carried away just yet because him and a few others did well in our SA Schools system. Let us not forget that at the last couple junior world champs we have been made to look very average against sides like England and New Zealand who were bigger,quicker,stronger than us. So before we start inducting these kids into the hall of fame let us first see what they produce.

  • Comment 21, posted at 14.12.11 08:51:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 20) : I fully agree with you that Mvovo needs to improve his skillset if he wants to play for the Boks again. The thing Mvovo has is pure speed! And u cant coach speed…u can coach handling,kicking etc. So i think thats why Mvovo has been retained.

  • Comment 22, posted at 14.12.11 08:53:35 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 21) :

    Wouldn’t say we looked average.

    Last year we should’ve won the damn thing, but Courtnall Skosan handed it to England on a silver platter.

    Don’t think we’ll see such an impressive U20 side again for a long time.

  • Comment 23, posted at 14.12.11 08:54:46 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • My Backline would be as follows: 9.Van Rooyen he is classy. 10.Goosen the general. 11. Ismael very athletic,quick he is no skosan lol. 12. Serfontein the next big thing. 13. William a great leader and hugely talented. 14.Jordaan multi talented and blitz. 15. Barry very classy when fit and on form.

  • Comment 24, posted at 14.12.11 08:55:43 by Muzi Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 22) :

    So he’s not good enough yet?

    In that case I’d like to see him excluded alongside guys like Johan Goosen, Johann Sadie etc. who I’ve been told are unproven…

  • Comment 25, posted at 14.12.11 08:56:14 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Hendrikp last years side had etsebeth,arno botha,venter,taute, carr,kolisi how they did not win the damn whole thing i will never know

  • Comment 26, posted at 14.12.11 08:59:01 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 25) : you really can be aa twit , they have been said excluded for completely diff reasons cartmen!! I agree about Mvovo right now ,just doesnt have that guile that some wingers have .

    @Muzi (Comment 26) : Considering the names im also surprised

  • Comment 27, posted at 14.12.11 09:03:41 by Talent Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 26) :

    You forgot Ruan Venter, Johan Goosen, Paul Jordaan, Wandile Mjekevu & Tshotsho Mbovane.

    That was a seriously good side, that should’ve won.

    Unfortunately the preference for Bully boys resulted in having Skosan on the wing, who couldn’t score a try if all he had to do was put it down. His performance against England was easily the worst I’ve seen on a rugby field since Epi Taione :lol:

  • Comment 28, posted at 14.12.11 09:05:19 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Talent (Comment 27) :

    Rob, I’ve been insulted! Sort him out :razz:

    Different reasons? So you’re creating these reasons to justify the inclusion of more Sharks players? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 29, posted at 14.12.11 09:06:45 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 29) : not at all, and sorry for the early morning grumpy retort haha ,serious though . Diff reasons being the amount of game time at sr level

  • Comment 30, posted at 14.12.11 09:09:28 by Talent Reply
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  • Well done Shaun Adendorff, fingers crossed and holding thumbs that you make the final squad and make it 2 years in a row that Glenwood has contributed to the SA Under 20 side. Maybe the headline should read ‘Seven Sharks make the cut’. Go Green!!

  • Comment 31, posted at 14.12.11 09:11:00 by Grasshopper Reply

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  • @Talent (Comment 30) :

    Fair enough but my point is if he’s not good enough, which many of you agree with, then why is he being included as a left winger? Yesterday there was a rant about the best for every game.

    Is Mvovo really one of our 2 best wingers? Or even then is there not a player playing in the midfield who would make a better winger? He just doesn’t cut it compared to the Australasian wingers, and many of the European wingers as well actually.

    So excluding players like Sadie, Goosen etc. because they’re unproven… I’m thinking the same should count for Mvovo. He hasn’t proven to me he’s good enough at that level :mrgreen:

  • Comment 32, posted at 14.12.11 09:13:22 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • You sharkies,lion cubs and WPs hehe Remember the name Wiaan Liebenberg he is the best under 19 loose forward great player.Watch him next year and oh yea he is not for sale.

  • Comment 33, posted at 14.12.11 09:14:11 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper Carl Swart will join the list soon.Dnt rule out jacques taylor,dean moolman,ferdi horn at blindside flank making the SA under 20 side very talented players.

  • Comment 34, posted at 14.12.11 09:18:52 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 32) : Mvovo should be included as he is a good finisher and already has a number of Bok caps! He just needs to be utilised more…the few times the sharks use him as a runner off 10 he usually breaks a tackle or two and gets through the gap. He isnt perfect and does need to work on his skills as does everyone. Id rather see guys that have potential AND Bok caps included than just handing out caps! U know in the old days when a new Bok was selected it made front page news and there was a full story on the new Bok and on the next page there was a full page story on the guy that was replaced. But thats when playing for the Boks was not about the money and fame.

  • Comment 35, posted at 14.12.11 09:19:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 32) : okay i see your thinking and I for one am not in mvovos corner although i do think he could be a good winger ,certainly I would put him on par with aplon…

    Just remember what you say about habana ,he is no where near any of the other wingers in world rugby yet you include him anyway, by saying things like “at the very least he is a good defender”.

    My ideal winger is something between JOC and JPP -if there is such a wing that exists.

  • Comment 36, posted at 14.12.11 09:20:18 by Talent Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 26) : Yes those guys are good players…BUT good players in SA! There is a difference between being good in SA and being good internationally- Wynand Olivier case in point! So yes those players have heaps of potential…but maybe they arent as good as we think. Should have won is an excuse for losers! U win or you lose…should have,could have, would have are excuses!

  • Comment 37, posted at 14.12.11 09:23:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Talent (Comment 36) : I agree with u mostly but just curious..why does there have to be an ideal woner or an ideal flyhalf or fullbakc etc? Everyone is different with different skillsets, attributes etc. Shane Williams was a world class wing…with his size would he have made any provincial sides in SA, probably not! I just think we too quick to say a certain position must do this and that, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat as they say!

  • Comment 38, posted at 14.12.11 09:26:02 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 35) : also agree with that sentiment to some degree. The thing is form can be regained however if the player was only ever a physical presence in terms of strength ,fitness or speed then once you over 25 all the experience in the world cant help you climb up that slippery slope .Why we should emphasise skill development at a young age …but thats a whole other can of worms :roll:

  • Comment 39, posted at 14.12.11 09:26:19 by Talent Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 38) : ye i agree ,just my own preference. If the player gets the job done then ill back them.

  • Comment 40, posted at 14.12.11 09:28:29 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 39) : I guess its finding the balance , skills can be picked up very quickly if the player is open minded ,just by playing against the best a player can gain an appreciation for certain styles of play and ultimately adopt them.

  • Comment 41, posted at 14.12.11 09:32:30 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 39) : Yeh i know what u mean bout the skills from a young age thing…but as you said another story! As for the types of players, yes i know we should stick to our strengths in SA but if we look at the players getting produced in the schools these days we are moving to a quicker more dynamic era and i just think that a player that can offer something different will be the key to unlocking tight defenses. Whether that player is exceptionally big or exceptionally quick or a good stepper or someone that can offload under pressure like SBW.

  • Comment 42, posted at 14.12.11 09:34:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Mvovo is an excellent wing who doesn’t get used nearly enough at doing what a wing needs to do: finish opportunities.

    Of course an element of that is positioning (which strangely enough is a quality of his I haven’t heard criticised), but a large part is how the team uses their wings – and as some punter pointed out recently with respect to JP at 13 (which I think could work very well) – the Sharks need to look at 12 if they want to change play in the outside backs.

    Mvovo may not have great hands, but he is a wing – I couldn’t care less if he could pass as long as he scores tries – and I believe his strike rate is good there.

    Plenty of good wings were limited players – Lomu being a massive case in point, and Habana another. Mvovo’s only real weakness is his positioning on defence – and some half-decent coacing will sort that out. A definite Bok wing in my opinion.

  • Comment 43, posted at 14.12.11 09:35:07 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 42) : Things are moving away from out and out size imo ,which is good for the game ,its no longer an elitest sport. My fetish about player ability is passing ,id take a player who can pass accurately and intelligently over steppers, powerhouses and speed merchants any day of the week- well in terms of backline play . 2nd to passers would be steppers -I think my favourite player over the last 10 years in the backline depart for sa is a toss up between butch and frans.

  • Comment 44, posted at 14.12.11 09:40:10 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 44) : for reasons unkown to me .

  • Comment 45, posted at 14.12.11 09:41:57 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 44) : Interesting u mention Frans and passing as i dont think people take notice of his passing ability sometimes. Yeh for a professional player you have to be able to pass accurately with both hands over distance…hence why i think players that are lacking in that area need to pushed to 7s to learn those skills. Taking the Mvovo case…let him play 7s for a year…i think he could be devastating and then come back to 15s with a vastly improved skillset which will make him a better player.

  • Comment 46, posted at 14.12.11 09:44:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 46) : hed probably play in the front row in 7s :lol:

    Thats how I like my 12s; Berrick Barnes ,JOC ,Frans Steyn etc -why I think we should stick with Bos .

    @Big Fish (Comment 43) : Imo JPP wont be a succes at 13 ,im not sure his passing game has the finesse required. My ideal 13 Conrad Smith

  • Comment 47, posted at 14.12.11 09:49:57 by Talent Reply
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  • @Muzi, yep those guys are all good players but probably only ready for next years side. They are only just out of school. Taylor could be a great hooker with some guidance from the Bulls hookers…

  • Comment 48, posted at 14.12.11 09:59:26 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Talent (Comment 47) : I think he would be on the wing hey…with space good luck catching him! Bosman has an excellent passing game that just needs to be utilised more…with Lambie and Bosman at 10/12 there is a lot of creativity so just need guys running off them…such as Alberts,Kanko..or the like sof Viljoen,Mvovo,Sithole,Whithead etc.
    Will be interesting to see the Ozzie lineup for next year…i reckon the Barnes/O’Connor 10/12 combo will be there.

  • Comment 49, posted at 14.12.11 09:59:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) :

    They won’t give up on Quade.

    He’ll need to be more precise… play a better tactical game and choose his opportunities to try thing better.

  • Comment 50, posted at 14.12.11 10:06:13 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 50) : If Barnes can hold himself together Cooper may have to come off the bench hey, which wont be a bad thing for them when the game opens up. Cooper plays high risk rugby, he always has and always will as its his nature…he tried to hone it in at the RWC and we all saw how he played.

  • Comment 51, posted at 14.12.11 10:12:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Anyone know what the pack will look like?

    Im thinking the following possibly

    1 – Steven Kitshoff
    2 – Jason Thomas
    3 – Allan Dell
    4 – Ruan Venter
    5 – Pieter Steph Du Toit/Ruan Botha

    Cant work out the backrow for the life of me. Will Liebenberg play 8? I think Jafta will be a class act. As for Jacques Du Plessis, i like the look of the fella, think he will go far. Does anyone know if Theron will select Ettienne Oosthuizen maybe as a flank/lock, he seems a litte on th shorter side and im wondering if Theron will do a Jean Cook with him.

  • Comment 52, posted at 14.12.11 10:19:02 by Pat Reply

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  • @Pat (Comment 52) :

    Reckon maybe Mark Pretorius at hooker? beet probably has a better idea though.

    Oosthuizen needs to make the final 26 first, which will be tough considering the players he’s up against.

  • Comment 53, posted at 14.12.11 10:22:29 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Pat (Comment 52) : I would play Wiaan Liebenberg at 6
    Jafta at 7 and Adendorff 8.

  • Comment 54, posted at 14.12.11 10:28:23 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Pat (Comment 52) : I would leave Jason Thomas at 2 very powerfull ball carrier and he is good in the scrums.

  • Comment 55, posted at 14.12.11 10:29:44 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 54) :

    Thought Liebenberg was more of a 7/8?

    Can’t recall him running out at 6 for the Bulls anyway :?:

  • Comment 56, posted at 14.12.11 10:29:48 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 56) : Liebenberg plays like an openside flank he is one of the best in the ground.

    I guess you right maybe 7 is his best position he is a great ball carrier VERY strong he was a stand out in the bulls under 21 side.

  • Comment 57, posted at 14.12.11 10:38:28 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • I think Liebenberg and Jafta are certainties. Not sure who the other few will be, Booysen it pretty athetic and talented but im not sure he will make the cut, maybe as a last forward, Nel from WP is also a big guy but again not sure of his chances.

    Think we have some great locks in this side, i was disappointed with Dawie’s selections in certain areas last year, i think he got Scrumhalf wrong, cos Rademan and Jacobs were poor and also he only took two specialist locks and didnt do enough to get players like Kitshoff, Taute, and Malherbe etc.
    I am also wondering if Paul Willemse will make it, just because of his size, he would scare the life out of some of those juniors – he is a huge oke!

  • Comment 58, posted at 14.12.11 10:46:19 by Pat Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @Pat (Comment 58) :

    Should’ve nabbed Eddie Bredenhann before Aussie got their hands on him :mrgreen: in hindsight lol

  • Comment 59, posted at 14.12.11 10:58:47 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Pat (Comment 58) : I agree Jafta and Liebenberg are certainties. One of them will be captain as well. I believe Lieb can be a 6 or a 7.

    I feel that should Khaya will be in the squad ahead of Booysen so that leaves Shaun and Cobus to battle it out for the remaining spot. Adendorff is tough as nails but Nel is a hard worker with very good skills – he was easily the most underrated player in the GCB unbeaten team of 2010.

    The issues I have with the 2 Lions u19 locks is they were not go to men in the lineout. They are great around the park, in rucks and at scrumtime but need to show much much more in the lineout to convince me they can win ball at 2. The impression I get is Paul W is very slow at getting into the air. If he’s matched against an athletic guy at 2 jumper it could be a problem.

  • Comment 60, posted at 14.12.11 11:02:31 by beet Reply
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  • @Pat (Comment 58) : You must tell me what you’re looking to know about SBR players for 2012. Is it just KZN that you’re interested in or the players to look out for nationally?

  • Comment 61, posted at 14.12.11 11:04:38 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 60) :

    Who you think will be the starting hooker?

  • Comment 62, posted at 14.12.11 11:14:31 by hendrikp Reply

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  • So the general opinion is the loose-trio will be:

    6 Khaya Majola
    7 Wian Liebenberg
    8 Siseko Jafta

    Any disagree?

  • Comment 63, posted at 14.12.11 11:17:27 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 63) : Spot on dude i like the look of that loose trio it should please alot sharks supporters :mrgreen:

  • Comment 64, posted at 14.12.11 11:46:34 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @beet (Comment 61) : Agree abou the lions locks they will struggle in seniot rugby if they do not improve their line out work.

    That is where Pieter Steph-Du Toit is ahead of his rivals not only is his work rate top class he is one of the best line out jumpers.

  • Comment 65, posted at 14.12.11 11:48:33 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • 4.Ruan Venter
    5.Du Toit

    Ruan Botha killed marvin orie and schalk van heerden with his height. :evil:

  • Comment 66, posted at 14.12.11 11:49:59 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 64) :

    They’d like it loaded up with Sharks players… but let’s not forget that the Sharks U19 side didn’t even make the semi’s :lol: It’s like loading up the Bok squad with Bulls CC players ;-)

  • Comment 67, posted at 14.12.11 11:51:43 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 21) :

    HALLELUJA !!!!!!!!

  • Comment 68, posted at 14.12.11 12:06:42 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 67) : :mrgreen: ‘the blitz bulle with their brand new swag an pink jerseys will win the currie cup next year. ;-)

  • Comment 69, posted at 14.12.11 12:09:06 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 63) : I think Khaya will make the squad but I’m not sure he’ll be starting the big game/s. Part of me wants Adendorff to make the team but the other part knows just what a good player Cobus Nel is.

    I think Mark Pretorius has done enough to make the team.

    I’m actually really surprised that the Sharks frontrow has stuck in there. Both Dell and van Dyk were big acquisitions for us this year (big name players) but our scrum has struggled at times, most notably against the power-pack of the Lions up at Cokellis Park. However our weak locks vs the Lions beefy locks had a lot to do with this I guess.

    Just thinking about it, people who’ve seen the Lions pack in action would be tempted to pick the full 8. Guys like Stemmett, Lerm and Nel were really good but didn’t make the u20 cut.

  • Comment 70, posted at 14.12.11 12:14:38 by beet Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 69) :

    Can’t argue with that one, but for long-term success they need to replace the dead weight, like I’ve said.

    1. They need Mellett to step up as a loosehead. Greyling is alright, but they could go better then him.

    2. They need a tighthead. At this stage I’d pay Rayno Gerber good money to come back, because Kruger is terrible and haven’t seen enough of Rossouw de Klerk.

    3. Need to ship out both Deon Stegmann and Dewald Potgieter, then find a half-decent openside. Those two are CC First Division level players… would be a good fit for the Kings.

    4. Find a darn fullback worth something.

    Then I’d also argue they could use an upgrade on the wing, but Basson is useful at that level. Preferably they should be playing someone with Springbok potential though, and Basson just isn’t ever going to be that guy.

    Pierre Spies needs to step up as well, but we won’t get into that :razz:

    And lastly I think Morne Steyn’s time may be coming to an end unless he can adapt to a more expansive game-plan.

    Wynand Olivier has to be one of the most under-appreciated players in SA right now.

  • Comment 71, posted at 14.12.11 12:16:44 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 67) : The Sharks and WP had opposite seasons. The Sharks were poor starters but finished strongly. Province looked like they were going to run away with things at one stage and then just suddenly ground to a halt. I think it had to do with their pack becoming ineffective after they lost Nel and I think Grobler as well to injury. Against the Sharks u19 in Durbs, they just couldn’t give their flashy backline any quality frontfoot ball.

  • Comment 72, posted at 14.12.11 12:18:28 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 72) :

    Think the SBR players might have improved the Sharks U19′s?

  • Comment 73, posted at 14.12.11 12:21:42 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 71) : Our bulls under 19s were thrashing sides like i said we always choke in the finals. :sad:

  • Comment 74, posted at 14.12.11 12:24:15 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 71) :

    Bulls really should’ve included Jan Serfontein in their training squad.

    Would’ve been a perfect opportunity using him as a winger at some stage.

  • Comment 75, posted at 14.12.11 12:25:40 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 71) :

    1.Heyneke Meyer will fix Pierre Spies :mrgreen:

    2.Mellet has just recovered from a long term injury so he will only play currie cup rugby in 2012.

    3.Our best Junior Full Back with potential is Ulrich Beyers on form no one touches him :mrgreen: BUT he is a back up outside centre i mean he did well against the highly rated Piet Lindeque. ;-)

    4.Francois Venter ans Jan Serfontein will eventually kick out Meisiekind. :mrgreen: because they are more talented,bigger,skillful and rising stars. ;-)

    5.Morne Steyn will be the bok 10 come next year no worries he can speel a running game. ;-)

  • Comment 76, posted at 14.12.11 12:29:03 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 75) : Have to agree with you BUT now that dries is out until june i doubt Meyer will risk Jan Serfontein. ;-)

  • Comment 77, posted at 14.12.11 12:30:08 by Muzi Reply

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  • Ruwellyn Isbell sa schools wing is also injured :???:

  • Comment 78, posted at 14.12.11 12:30:58 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 73) : Next year is William Small Smiths big break he will be tested like venter i hope he can step up and push the brilliant sadie.

  • Comment 79, posted at 14.12.11 12:31:52 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 76) :

    How will he fix Spies? I’m not sure you can fix a guy who’s really only been good in patches. I think his Bok career is over tbh.

    True about Mellett. That’s a bit of a disappointment but hopefully they give him some game-time. Maybe playing well at VC level will push him into the senior side.

    Tbh, what I saw of Beyers for the Baby Boks, he’s an average player. Probably the best the Bulls have at fullback, but not something I’d want long term.

    One of Serfontein & Venter is going to have to move on, or change position. Too good to spend the next 10 years backing each other up.

    And I don’t think Morne will be there hey. For what they want to do, there are better players. If he does make it, it will be because of his goalkicking.

    The coach will be Gert Smal, and I don’t think he’ll pick Morne.

  • Comment 80, posted at 14.12.11 12:37:10 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 73) : I think there were a number of things that improved.

    The locks got a bit stronger – Lewies was probably the most improved player over the course of the season.
    The cohesion and communication in the pack improved. I remember against the Bulls in game 1 of the season they played like schoolboys thinking they were going to just bash their way over the adv line as individuals. The Bulls sorted them other by knocking them backwards in tackles and winning the ensuing ground contest.
    The ballcarriers handling improved. They struggled to retain the ball in collisions at the start of the season.
    By the time the last home game vs the Lions came around, which we lost in the last minute of the game, the improvement up front was very noticeable. The forwards were imho the main the reason why things got better.

    Funnily enough the first backline of the season had both Zeilinga and Jordaan in it and just didn’t gel. Schoolboy Robert du Preez probably isn’t as talented as Zeilinga but he’s a much better fit for the style that the team plays – flat gainline challenging rugby. Du Preez is a good distributor. The schoolboy centres kept things simple. Moolman is a tackler of note and Fisher is like a Jonah Lomu. Fisher needs to work really hard on his awareness of support and his passing game but he is really strong on his feet in the tackle and has a very good hand off. But over all whereas du Preez proved to be vital I’m not so sure that the Moolman-Fisher combo was any better than the Allerston-Holland partnership.
    Tom seemed to be a step up from what we had before. He is however not a speedster. He cuts inside a lot but he’s really good for continuity and what I like about him is that he seems to respond well to technical training. The improvements he’s made in just one year are frightning. If he can continue to up his game at the rate he did in 2011, he’s be quite some SBR player next year. I just wonder if he shouldn’t focus on becoming a FB. At 1.76m and not expected to grow, you usually look for brinding pace or amazing footwork or both in a smallish wing. He doesn’t have either attribute.

    Long story short I think the Sharks u19 pack paved the way for improved results not the SBR players injected. The latter helped when depth became an issue coz players were used for u21 or were were injured.

  • Comment 81, posted at 14.12.11 12:44:04 by beet Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 80) : I’ve never understood why Muzi hypes Beyers so much or why the Bulls head-hunted him from WP.

    But he did play well in the u21 final on attack. On D he was a bit suspect. In one move he got shoved backwards and off his feet by a power hand-off from van Tonder. I must youtube that for Muzi.
    Why he was good on attack in the final was that unlike a traditional Bulls 13, he played like a WP 13. He had his peripheral vision switched on and linked perfectly with some good runners working well off the ball either side of him. There was a lot of old school draw and pass playmaker style rugby. It was good and I appreciated it.

  • Comment 82, posted at 14.12.11 12:51:36 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 82) :

    “Why he was good on attack was in the final that unlike a traditional Bulls 13, he played like a WP 13. He had his peripheral vision switched on and linked perfectly with some good runners working well off the ball either side of him. There was a lot of old school draw and pass playmaker style rugby. It was good and I appreciated it”

    Enough said.

    Piet Lindeque had no answer to beyers sure beyers needs work on defence we all know that can be sorted out.

    I’d rather have beyers than piet as my outside centre. :smile:

    You saw what beyers did with ball in hand that is what meyer wants.

    Bradley Moolman is just not good enough that is why he was replaced by beyers.

    Please please do not tell me about clayton blommetjies :???: he never did anything special against the bigger teams.

  • Comment 83, posted at 14.12.11 13:01:40 by Muzi Reply

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  • @beet (Comment 82) : Ulrich Beyers was a nobody last year lets be honest he did not even make the sa schools side.

    The guy had a massive work rate and a desire to be a bok.

    He is willing to make sacrifices so he can reach his goal and that is to be a bok.

    To me he fits well into our structures.That is what impressed meyer.

    We make boks.

  • Comment 84, posted at 14.12.11 13:08:38 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • Why are sharks supporters are soooo worried about the so called average bulls junior players that they forget a certain mr piet lindeque who still can not even make the sharks super 15 training squad i will say no more about piet send him back to bloem please.

    Paul Jordaan was hyped in a You Tube video leading up to the 2011 Junior World were he we was sadly average.

    Jordaan’s great moment came when his head getting stuck in a bush against ireland attempting to make a tackle. :mrgreen:

    Jan Serfontein has kicked him out of the 12 position. :smile:

    I’d be worried if i was a sharky because half the sharks academy graduates are at tukkies scrambling for bulls senior contracts. ;-)

  • Comment 85, posted at 14.12.11 13:20:42 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 69) :

    So all your players will be a lot better next year ? great to hear that :lol:

  • Comment 86, posted at 14.12.11 13:21:48 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 86) :

    or are you referring to the u/21 CC ?

    great you guys won the u/21 koppie using all the CC players that didnt make the semis .

    im personaly looking forward to mosching some school boys next season !!!

  • Comment 87, posted at 14.12.11 13:26:56 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 83) : Man you’ve totally misunderstood me re: Clayton B. Never rated him as a top brass player, just meant that teams that underestimate him do it at their own peril. He’s a lot better than he gets credit for. :mrgreen:

    Beyers would have been watching WP u21 action from the sidelines this year had he stayed in Cape Town. He made a good move. Need to see him in tight corridors in rugby to judge his worth at 13 but fully understand that he’s been asked to play out of possie. No argument that he outshone Piet Lindeque on the day but the road ahead is a long one. Sometimes you lose the battle but win the war ;-)

  • Comment 88, posted at 14.12.11 13:30:48 by beet Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 86) : Lions supporters think that lions players should make up the bulk of the bok side next year because they are the currie cup champions. :mrgreen:

    Apparently Josh Strauss,Derick Minnie and those sharks rejects are the next big things pppfffttt.

    The lions under 19s beat the bulls under 19s in a final soooo now word is in JHB the lions will attract the best talent in South Africa. :mrgreen:

    Sir Elton Janjties has been hailed as the next bok flyhalf after a brilliant currie cup season.

    For lions supporters the Super 15 does not matter at all.

    They have the currie cup now.

  • Comment 89, posted at 14.12.11 13:58:13 by Muzi Reply

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  • @beet (Comment 61) :
    I think just mainly what players to look out for in KZN and also on the national level. Also which school do you think will dominate KZN, or is that a stupid question (Glenwood if you get my drift). I know im gonna keep my eyes on Kriel from College, Van Zyl from DHS and Hugh’s son (Matthew i think) is got a decent rep as well. Obviously Tom will be around, and i think Cameron Wright went to Hilton to get game time. And of course Carel Swart looks a decent player, anyone else you recommend?
    As for the Lions lock, im not really thinking they will go onto anything special at senior level, but even including someone like Willemse would be interesting. He’s about 130kg i thing and seems to be what Theron is going for, and having that kind of power at this level is good i think, as long as there are backrowers that can jump as well.

    As for Ulrich Beyers i must say I have been impressed with him, he takes the ball very flat, i think he was very good at JWC in Italy, had a big boot and was a very strong runner.

  • Comment 90, posted at 14.12.11 14:00:48 by Pat Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @beet (Comment 88) : Please please just forget about clayton beet he is there to balance the demographics he was never that good. :smile:

    Would’nt be surprise if young Piet ends up jolling for Tukkies.

  • Comment 91, posted at 14.12.11 14:02:54 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Pat (Comment 92) : Beet and Hendrikp said Beyers was average that is why Dawie Theron started beyers ahead of little Craig Barry.

    “he takes the ball very flat, i think he was very good at JWC in Italy, had a big boot and was a very strong runner.”

    You know your rugby very well.

  • Comment 92, posted at 14.12.11 14:05:41 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Pat (Comment 91) : Half those KZN players you have listed will probably end up at the bulls. :smile:

    Hans Scriba and Rudolf Straulli need to chance their scouting system.

    Also the varsity cup is a BIG issue and problem for th sharks union.

    They have to counter varsity rugby or else they will sign scraps. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 93, posted at 14.12.11 14:08:41 by Muzi Reply

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  • @beet (Comment 88) : Just found out Hooker Morne Du Plessis from waterkloof has signed with the sharks.

    So let me see the sharks have poached warren potgieter,marne coetzee,du plessis ansd full back robinson.That is 4 transvaal schoolboys.

    Is that revenge for the bulls stealing glenwood players ?

  • Comment 94, posted at 14.12.11 14:10:54 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 90) :

    Hehe very good points.

    I find it hard to read that stuff as well. I mean I’ve even heard ones calling for a Bok recall for Wikus van Heerden, and then we had Hoskins saying that Franco van der Merwe is going to become a Springbok star.

    Like they can’t process that a Lions side would get hammered by test sides :lol:

  • Comment 95, posted at 14.12.11 14:12:31 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 90) :

    haha dude . dont make up stories here now . there are one or 2 players that i think could be included in the boks side . but like everybody they need to be included on merit . not just because they have a Bulls snr contract. Also , you have to admit that winning the Currie Cup does help towards becoming a springbok

    Taute for me is very close . sure he is not perfect but hes young and good .

    Elton needs a Good SR season . If he has one sure why not include him in the Boks . but if Goosen has a better season then include him . or even Lambie.

    if the 19 CC and SNR CC is anything to go by we are attracting one or 2 worth while players , dont you think ;)

    oh no Super 15 matters . but that doesnt meen we wont celebrate winning the currie cup … its nice and shiny and i like shiny things ..

  • Comment 96, posted at 14.12.11 14:14:05 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 92) :

    Barry was at a disadvantage because he was a year younger…

    It’s never going to be all the best players that are eligible. Playing for the Baby Boks straight out of school is an achievement by itself.

    @Muzi (Comment 94) :

    It’s those players realizing they’ve got a better shot making it at a franchise who don’t already have a HUGE group of youths signed.

  • Comment 97, posted at 14.12.11 14:15:57 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 95) : Its true i do not buy this whole John Mitchell thing.

    He sure did achieve alot with the western force he has a habit of running away from completing his projects. :mrgreen:

    Look what he achieved with the western force. :smile:

    I still can not believe it that John does not rate Wandile Mjekevu and David Bulbring :???:

  • Comment 98, posted at 14.12.11 14:18:13 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 97) : The selection of Kevin Luiters makes me mal that kid is spoilt is he even that good.

    I saw him playing for grey college he looked rather small and average.

  • Comment 99, posted at 14.12.11 14:20:30 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 98) :

    To be honest I’m not big fan of Mjekevu either. Even his highlight package I could point out that he takes the ball almost flat-footed, and when he does make a break he struggles to beat people after that. For me, he’s more hype then genuine quality.

    Bulbring is a tough one. I’ve only seen him play a couple of VC games. Was keeping an eye on him because of what I perceived to be a shortage of quality locks at the Lions.

    Also thought he was a quality player, but they obviously thought they could get more value out of what they already had (which wasn’t bad either) and having a lot of very good youth locks coming through. They can’t afford to be paying players they aren’t using.

  • Comment 100, posted at 14.12.11 14:25:09 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 95) :

    lie we lost against the Springbok back line of the Stormers in the CC semi final … Oh wait …

    and how the Springbok front row smashed the Lions front row to bits in the CC final .. oh wait …

    Where they guys not motivated ? why did they get dominated by a so called useless Lions side full of rejects . ?

    @Muzi (Comment 98) :

    lol . you know Mitch got stabbed last year ? Ideal opportunity to run away from the horrible Lions . Luckily for us he did not run away.

    lets see what happens next year . a few of my sharky friends where also lekker windgat before the CC final …

  • Comment 101, posted at 14.12.11 14:26:17 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 99) :

    His reason for going to Grey College says it all. He supposedly left his previous school because his coach didn’t appreciate him enough – he reckons because the coach was jealous that Luiters uncle is Allister Coetzee. What a bunch of bullcrap! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 102, posted at 14.12.11 14:27:46 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 101) :

    I’m not saying they’re useless, I’m saying they aren’t Springbok quality players.

    The Lions had built up great momentum, played above themselves & had home-ground advantage.

    They’ll come dead last again in the SA conference. :mrgreen: Sorry

  • Comment 103, posted at 14.12.11 14:29:51 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 98) :

    I don’t think he could’ve done much more with the Force anyway.

    You need to remember that having a rugby team in Perth is like having a rugby team in Washington (for example).

    They don’t know the game. In Perth they play Aussie Rules.

    And Perth is on the other side of Australia, the worlds most secluded city. The other Australian cities generally stretch down the east coast, whereas Perth is on the West.

    The Force will struggle to become any better then they already are because they’ll be taking players who don’t make it on the West Coast, where they play rugby.

  • Comment 104, posted at 14.12.11 14:33:23 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • A Bok coach will always pick a bulls,sharks,free state and wp player before considering a lions player.

    The lions side plays as a team mitchell has very good players BUT alot those good players will make the bok jersey look cheap. :mrgreen:

    Apart from taute,mapoe and elton there is nothing to get excited about.

    The key word is QUALITY.

    Hougaard is quality,sadie is quality,juandre kruger is quality,chilliboy is quality.J-J is quality the bulls have alot of quality players in their side.

    Is bondesio quality ?!??!hollenbach bok quality!?!?franco van de merve bok quality?!?oupa wickus is he still quality!?!?!?
    bandise is he really bok quality is he better than chilliboy.
    !?!?!?

    The lions are a good team as a coach i would struggle to pick 8 boks from that side.

  • Comment 105, posted at 14.12.11 14:35:20 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 104) :

    Melbourne actually has the same problems. Again more of an Aussie Rules & Rugby League town. Union is not the code they prefer.

    I believe their 30-man squad for 2012 only has one local player in it, Lloyd Johansson.

  • Comment 106, posted at 14.12.11 14:36:06 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 102) : The way things look at the moment Kevin will be out starting number 9. :evil:

    Even Wps Guy Whitfield is better.

  • Comment 107, posted at 14.12.11 14:37:28 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 103) :

    we will see .. ill still be here either way ..

  • Comment 108, posted at 14.12.11 14:38:43 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 104) : If he wants to improve the lions side then he really need to bolster the side.

    Even Pine Pienaars bulls side beat that side at ellis park.

    I worry about the key players the lions have.

    Its just not enough for me.

    They are 4 quality bok players short.

    Francs Steyn would be a big step forward.

  • Comment 109, posted at 14.12.11 14:40:23 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 105) :

    I’m trying to bring in the term “Franchise player”.

    Basically means the same as you saying they are ‘quality’. A player who can compete with the others in his position… who is ‘up there’.

    So use it :mrgreen:

  • Comment 110, posted at 14.12.11 14:40:40 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 110) : :mrgreen: haha.

  • Comment 111, posted at 14.12.11 14:43:19 by Muzi Reply

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  • If i was Kevin De Klerk o would seriously consider getting Frans Steyn,Mujati,Big Joe and a player like Ruan Pienaar.

    They would make MASSIVE difference to the lions.

    As things stand right now no one is scared to play against the lions. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 112, posted at 14.12.11 14:45:20 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 109) :

    They are short a few game-breakers yes.

    I do think they have a few youths who can add value though. They’d be stupid to start signing Springboks considering their apparent financial situation.

    At the moment I think the Lions are best served trying to get the best out of the lot they have, and then not lose too many to Springbok duty. Then bring through the quality players they need and try HOLD ONTO THEM!! :lol:

    Getting Heinke van der Merwe back would also be worthwhile. I rate JC Janse van Rensburg… but sadly for him there are plenty of very good looseheads available to the Springboks.

  • Comment 113, posted at 14.12.11 14:45:31 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 105) :

    always is a very long time . and you also forget to quickly who made up the Bulk of the 1995 world cup team . Or is that not part of Always ?

    Look at the Reds . a few years back you would not find one reds player in the Aussie side. But as they improved they got more and more players in the Ozzie squad .

    dont you worry . the Lions will be there to give the Bulls hell . t Mitch will be there to make sure of that

  • Comment 114, posted at 14.12.11 14:47:05 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 113) : Heinke van der Merwe the bulls need this guy ASAP.

    I am sick and tired of seeing the bulls turbo reverse and props folding and not binding properly. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 115, posted at 14.12.11 14:47:43 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 110) : Jacque-Louis Potgieter is a real franchise player – he’s played for nearly every franchise.

    Am I doing this right??? :grin:

  • Comment 116, posted at 14.12.11 14:48:05 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 114) : Boet the difference is that the lions had Quality Franchise Players in those days.

    Sorry But Mitchells side is about teamwork no superstars at all.Just good players who work hard for the team.

    The bulls played as a team loaded with something like 10 bok players in the side that won the super 14 twice.

    That is what Heynke Meyer is working on.

    You do not rate Venter BUT watch that kid next year. ;-)

  • Comment 117, posted at 14.12.11 14:51:26 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 112) :

    With the Lions

    I don’t think Derick Minnie has it in him to play test rugby. He might be the 2nd best openside in SA, but it just points out what a bad situation we are in if Brussow gets injured.

    I’m also not convinced that Josh Strauss is anything beyond average. A poor mans Schalk Burger at this stage, though he does have a bit of energy. If you think back at what he does on the rugby field though, is he really that impressive? Heck no.

    Franco van der Merwe is a decent player… no Springbok though.

    Bandise Maku doesn’t keep up with the big three – Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss & Chiliboy Ralepelle.

    Won’t even start on the backs. :lol:

    A few of them do make very good/valuable players to have, but just aren’t ever going to be in contention for Springbok spots.

    The ones I’d be earmarking for higher honors are: Michael Rhodes, Elton Jantjies (though I’m not convinced he can stay there) & Jaco Taute.

  • Comment 118, posted at 14.12.11 14:51:54 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 116) : :mrgreen: enough said

  • Comment 119, posted at 14.12.11 14:52:32 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 117) :

    ok your right . Lions suck . we will never ever win anything again .. lol :roll:

  • Comment 120, posted at 14.12.11 14:54:49 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 116) :

    Hehe not quite.

    @Muzi (Comment 117) :

    I agree Venter is a star! You do take it a bit far with some other players but he’s special :mrgreen:

    A couple of years from now we’re going to have 3 Springbok quality inside centres all coming from Grey College: Frans Steyn, Jan Serfontein & Franna Venter.

  • Comment 121, posted at 14.12.11 14:54:49 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 118) : You could not have put it better i hope Zibbie reads that comment.

    The lions culture has changed its all about team work and a bunch of individualls playing together to be successfull.

    What is missing and i will say it again is QUALITY or Frachise players who will walk right into a bok side.

    Sorry lions supporters its true. :smile:

  • Comment 122, posted at 14.12.11 14:55:27 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 118) :

    thats 3 more then we had this time last year ..

    but like you and Muzi keep and telling me the Lions will again be no where .. wipping boys of Sa rugby … oh the pain …

  • Comment 123, posted at 14.12.11 14:57:28 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 121) : Thats exactly what i’m trying to tell Zibbie.

    The lions do NOT have Venter,JP Du Plessis,Serfontein,De Jong.

    Hollenbach,Doppies and Murray are good just about good NOT BOK quality. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 124, posted at 14.12.11 14:57:33 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 122) :

    Totally Agree .. wow your brilliant

  • Comment 125, posted at 14.12.11 14:58:31 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 120) :

    I think the Currie Cup showed us the huge benefit you get from home-ground advantage, and playing together as a team over an extended period of time – also they suffered basically no injuries.

    Just need Lions supporters to realize the players as individuals aren’t all that great. Rather it was a hell of a great team.

  • Comment 126, posted at 14.12.11 14:58:37 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 124) :

    yes yes i realize this now … how blind i was not .. man … thank you for pointing me in the right direction …

  • Comment 127, posted at 14.12.11 14:59:35 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Zibbie the lions need to win the super 15 i am soory BUT the currie cup is like an upgrade of the vodacom cup. :mrgreen:

    The super 15 is the real test.

  • Comment 128, posted at 14.12.11 15:00:18 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 126) :

    hey i never said we need the whole Lions team to be with the boks . lol . Im thinking Taute might have a chance . Elton maybe … .. Roads first need to work on his discipline.

    Should you not have a team that plays well together ? its a team sport or did i miss something along the way .

    the problem with 15 superstars is that is just that . 15 guys that are great on there own . Are they willing to work together as a group .

    but like you remind me the whole time we will get wipped . im preparing myself … very depressing … but ill work though it .

  • Comment 129, posted at 14.12.11 15:06:00 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Look i am not trying to slam or critisize the lions.

    I am happy for the lions they proved me wrong when they won the currie cup.

    All i am saying is that they need to recruit abit better and sign top talent in SA.

    Top talented players like JP Du plessis who will wear the green jersey.

    This requires money.

    The lions winning the currie cup has rattled the sharks,WP and the bulls.

    It has opened a few doors for investors to pump money in the side.

    We got a rude awekening. :mrgreen:

    When the lions have the funds to match the sharks,WP and the bulls then they will be able to attract the venters,sefonteins ect.

    Buy Real Franchise Quality players who will walk straight into a bok side.

    Enough said :mrgreen:

  • Comment 130, posted at 14.12.11 15:06:13 by Muzi Reply

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  • @Muzi (Comment 128) :

    and we will fail … yes we will .. man theses bulls players are good .. how could i nit have seen this before ..

  • Comment 131, posted at 14.12.11 15:07:34 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 130) :

    yes again wow wise words … what luck the Lions had that all the Bulls players played at the world cup . lucky they will the there 15 boks back and they will show the Lions who are really boss .. the Lions will once again take there rightful place in super rugby conference … last . the currie cup is not worth anything . why dont we just scrap it …. ?

  • Comment 132, posted at 14.12.11 15:10:08 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 126) :

    Considering how weakened the other top teams were, the Lions weren’t even really all that impressive during the CC.

    Their round-robin record versus top sides

    Versus Bulls: Won by 9, Lost by 3. Weak Bulls team in win with many players in that days backline now released, yet Lions needed a 77th minute try to seal it.

    Versus Sharks: Won by 9, Lost by 44. Again needed a last minute penalty to seal things in the win. Lack of depth resulted in HUGE loss in second game.

    Versus Cheetahs: Won by 7, Draw. Good win against a side that also lacks depth in 1st game. 2nd game pulled a miracle out of the hat to come back against a Cheetahs side 5-mins from full-time after Tewis de Bruyn yellow.

    Versus Province: Lost by 2. Won by 17. They lost to a weak Province side who only scored 1 try… Then hammered an even worse one that had Fenton-Wells on the flank and Brache & Klaasen as centres, go figure.

    Just gives you some insight into the opposition. The Lions weren’t that good.

  • Comment 133, posted at 14.12.11 15:10:52 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 133) :

    yes i understand now … thanx

  • Comment 134, posted at 14.12.11 15:13:01 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 133) :

    They didn’t even win both games against any of the top sides.

    That from a Super Rugby side while everybody else was playing sides which resembled the Vodacom Cup.

    Heck man at least the Stormers went 7-from-8 during Super Rugby. The Lions only went 4 1/2-from-8 during the Currie (or Vodacom) Cup.

  • Comment 135, posted at 14.12.11 15:13:46 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 134) :

    I love sarcasm :razz:

    Don’t be angry with me hey. I know you’re not saying anything about making them all Boks! Just pointing out before anyone does :mrgreen:

  • Comment 136, posted at 14.12.11 15:14:50 by hendrikp Reply

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  • ;-) @hendrikp (Comment 135) : The lions will do VERY well in the super 15 comp.

    Zibbie is confident they have the right depth.

    I worry Hendrikp the lions need that extra quality’

    Peace i’m out bro

  • Comment 137, posted at 14.12.11 15:17:03 by Muzi Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 133) :

    oh yes . and i could never understand why the Lions team did not perform all out in the last game against the sharks .. wow . having already secured the top spot on the log . they should have gone all out . i mean who cares if they get injured in a match that doesnt matter … stupid lions players id say …

    and you didnt even mention the semis and finals ? playing against those boks , who just came back from NZL all battered and tired . and who ois motivated for a game against the Lions anyways .. and in the currie cup . what a waste of time terrible id say ..

  • Comment 138, posted at 14.12.11 15:17:34 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 138) :

    By that time they had already gotten home advantage in a play-off game. Unfair to include that.

  • Comment 139, posted at 14.12.11 15:18:31 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 136) :

    not angry at all . im just giving up . busy wasting my time

  • Comment 140, posted at 14.12.11 15:18:48 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 137) :

    See you.

    @Zibbie (Comment 138) :

    I better go as well. 2:20am here. Have a good day :mrgreen:

    Don’t worry about the Lions. Isn’t it better to win a CC anyway, rather then have plenty of Boks? Easier doing it without losing guys all season for Bok duty.

  • Comment 141, posted at 14.12.11 15:20:08 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 137) :

    lol . wow putting words in my mouth .. thanx man !!! your saying what i should have !!! wish i thought of it !!!

  • Comment 142, posted at 14.12.11 15:20:12 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 137) : Thanks for the info on Morne du Plessis. I know that Hanco Venter the Monnas scrummy is also coming our way.

    Where is Guy Whitfield? Injured? Earlier in the year Duncan Campbell’s folks said that Guy was in training and a strong contender to start for WP u19. I ask a couple of Bishops contacts what happened to him but they couldn’t give me an answer.

  • Comment 143, posted at 14.12.11 15:20:27 by beet Reply
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  • One needs to remember that the Lions are in their infancy at the moment, a lot of their players were only signed at the beginning of 2011 (i.e. Patric Cilliers, Rhodes, Bandise Maku)etc, and during Superrugby Mitchell didnt know what his best team was. I think Mitchell almost had to do a Jake White with the Boks. Remember before White took over SA’s real problem was a lack of consistent selection, some would argue that has gone the other way and there is too much consistency of selection now. But that is the big thing the Lions achieved in the CC was a consistent and stable team that has now got a much better spine to it. The frontrow and backrow are settled and the backline is shaping up.
    I think the Currie Cup was good for the Lions, and I think they are going to be a lot better in Superrugby. I dont think they will challenge for higher honoours or even necesssarily be the best team in SA but i think we will see improvement.
    As for their players I think there are a few of Bok quality – Taute, Jantjies, CJ and possibly Minnie as a replaceemnt for Brussouw if he gets injured. I also think Rhodes will be a fantastic player if he knuckles down and works on his issues. Throw in a few talented youngsters like Callie Visagie, who i rate highly and im sure they will be good. They’ve also got Stephan Greef who i think will be very good as well, and Roodt and Mockford are very underrated.
    Re Bullbring; i wasnt that impressed with him, and if he was that great he wouldnt have moved on to the EP Kings, he would have come to the Sharks. Re Mjekevu he is a good prospect but i dont think he is a centre, more a wing, he is not physically imposing enough to be a 13.

  • Comment 144, posted at 14.12.11 15:20:32 by Pat Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 141) :

    im not worried .. you have now convinced me that we will be no where come SR so i can go and relax and work on my knitting …

  • Comment 145, posted at 14.12.11 15:24:00 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Pat (Comment 90) : Ja, just about all the local guys you have mentioned are worth tracking. Here are a few more incl the one’s you’ve mentioned:

    DHS
    2.Zuko Nqawe 10.Le Roux van Zyl 15.Mbembe Payi
    Glenwood
    1.Worrall-Clare 2. Pani 3. Marne Coetzer (SA Schools),7. Marlo Gouws,8. Carel Swart 9. Mtokosizi Makabela (SA Academy) 10.Warren Potgieter 11. Siya Tom 12. Legend Marwana 13. Dylan Coulsen
    Michaelhouse
    7/8: Josh Moon
    Hilton
    8.Chris de Beer, 9.Cameron Wright,12. Jonathan Hugo (might have finished school but u18) 15.Calvin Smith
    Kearsney
    4. Daniel du Preez, 7. Jean-Luc du Preez, 9. Mat Reece-Edwards, 12.Sandile Khubeka,
    College
    7. Malherbe 8. Regan Smith, 12.Bombar, 13.Daniel Kriel, 11. Marcel Coetzee 15.Jesse Kriel (also heard that centre Pretorius wud be returning to College
    Westville
    6. Thabo Ngcobo 7. Jackson Buthelezi 8. Ed o’Neill 14.Dylan Aylward 15. Louis Snyman

  • Comment 146, posted at 14.12.11 15:41:36 by beet Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 139) : Are you suggesting that home ground advantage automatically wins you the game? Or possibly that WP and the Sharks are not good enough to win away from home?
    You already showed that the Stormers won 7 of 8 local games in Super Rugby (including away games) so why now all of a sudden is them playing away so detrimental?

  • Comment 147, posted at 14.12.11 15:50:35 by 13 Reply

    13Under 19 player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 105) :

    Do you think Kitchner is Better then Taute ? do you think Meisiekind is better than Doppies or Hollenbach . Do you think werner Kruger is Better than Pat Cilliers ? Do you think Basson is Beter then Killian ?

    well … Do ya ?

  • Comment 148, posted at 14.12.11 16:55:08 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 137) :

    lets hope the Bulls second stringers suddenly improve a lot cause they showed in the CC they dont really have back up .

  • Comment 149, posted at 14.12.11 16:57:08 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Wow, loads of hubris on this thread! Look, I said all season-long that I wasn’t too bothered with the Sharks winning this CC, but rather more about us building depth (which we completely failed to do), but let’s not belittle the Lions – they had an awesome season.

    However, I hear what some are saying – they aren’t quite packed with stars in their line-up. But that shows just what good coaching and commitment can do – they whipped a star-studded Sharks side lacking both of the above.

  • Comment 150, posted at 14.12.11 21:04:41 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 150) :

    Thanx you for saying this Big Fish . I appreciate this .

    look dont get me wrong . im not saying the Lions are world beaters now . not by a long shot . im saying for the first time in 12 years they are showing signs of improvement . i dont think you will see the same side as you did in 2010 in next years SR side . i feel the guys can end mid table if they play like they did for about 65 % of die season . where they perfect in the CC campaign ? again no . did they look better then 2010 ? yes .

    where the boks there ? no . Where the boks there in 2010 . No .
    i agree SR is the big test . no arguments from me about that . But i do have hope . IF (imagine this if to be bold and underlined) they play like they did in the CC AND improve on the CC performance they MIGHT find themselves mid table . nobody can say its impossible . that i can assure you .

    But on the other hand , please writes us off . send second teams to play against us . give your fringe players a chance .

    (PS hehe BF the you’s are not aimed at you as in big fish but you as in every rugby player and supporter the Lions will face in 2012)

  • Comment 151, posted at 15.12.11 06:39:53 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 151) :

    Others sent their second teams during the Currie Cup.

    You guys went 4 1/2 from 8 against those sides :mrgreen:

    Bring on the Super 15!!! Life is boring without.

  • Comment 152, posted at 15.12.11 07:01:42 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 151) :

    Also i keep on hearing that the Lions dont have any world clas performers . the only guys that should be included are bla bla bla . Heck i wouldent even include some of them in my Bok side . I think a guy like Micheal Rhoads still have a heck load to prove before he is even considered close to bok quality .

    A guy like Taute is CLOSE . But he needs to have a great SR season before i would say yes do it . But i would say the same about any player . some guys who have been there and still perform for the boks , like lets say Hougard i might consider no matter if he players well or not .

    But im by no means suggesting we take the whole Lions side to the Boks . Not by a long shot . They need to improve still . BUT i have the confidence that they will .

    We need players in the bok side who have proven themselves . At the moment we are in a position where we will be building a bit on the Bok side . getting in a few fresh faces . i cant remember who pasted a side . The only Lions he included were Taute @ 15 and Minnie on the Bench . and that looked like a pretty good side .

    i dont mind only 2 Lions . i dont mind not having any Lions . What i do mind is the guys not being given a fair chance .

    I keep on being told . No it was a weak currie cup . Dont rate your players based on this . The they turn around and say a guy Like Sadie will be in the bok side . Based on what i ask then ? are you saying our school system is better then the CC ?

    but like i said we will see . the Lions need to have a good SR season . if been told i dont care about SR cause we won the CC . Trust me i would not have been here backing the boys and hoping that they will improve in 2012 if i didnt care about SR . I care about both . and im more than sure they players do as well . i will be here backing the boys

    i hope they do what they did in the CC and give a few guys a rude awakening .

    im not saying they will win . nope . but as long as they show improvement ill be a happy man .

  • Comment 153, posted at 15.12.11 07:02:27 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 152) :

    and compare that to 2010 . how did we do in 2010 ? was there an improvement between 2010 and 2011 . please give me those details ?

  • Comment 154, posted at 15.12.11 07:04:17 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @13 (Comment 147) :

    I’m saying that home ground advantage is very important to winning at that stage, yes. If you don’t think so, then maybe check how often away sides win in Super Rugby play-offs – it’s rare.

    And yes, I’m saying that the Sharks and Province 2nd-teams aren’t good enough to beat the Lions away from home in a semi-final or final. 1st teams are a different story.

  • Comment 155, posted at 15.12.11 07:05:07 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 154) :

    Improvement, yes :mrgreen:

    I’m not arguing with anything you’re saying… only that the expectations for SR 2012 might even be a bit high. Don’t be shocked if they finish last.

  • Comment 156, posted at 15.12.11 07:07:22 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 152) :

    2010 CC we went 3/8 against the big sides . so a slight improvement.

    in 2010 we lost against the Pumas and the Griquas as well .

    lol im looking at it a bit differently . im looking for an improvement .

    but i wont win against you so ill keep quite now … lol

  • Comment 157, posted at 15.12.11 07:10:59 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 155) :

    wait . we didnt play 2nd stringers in the semis or finals did we ?

  • Comment 158, posted at 15.12.11 07:11:54 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 156) :

    Dont be shocked if they dont

  • Comment 159, posted at 15.12.11 07:12:36 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 158) :

    Oh whoops I take that back :mrgreen:

  • Comment 160, posted at 15.12.11 07:13:03 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 160) :

    hahah or did you meen the great Johan sadie and Johan Goosen didnt play :razz: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 161, posted at 15.12.11 07:15:21 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 161) :

    Jealous the Lions haven’t got them on their books? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 162, posted at 15.12.11 07:17:34 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 148) : I don’t think Werner Kruger is better than my gran…

  • Comment 163, posted at 15.12.11 07:47:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 94) : du plessis?

  • Comment 164, posted at 15.12.11 07:48:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 163) :

    Meisiekind is definitely better then those other two mentioned.

    And Basson and Killian are equally bad! :lol:

    @robdylan (Comment 164) :

    Morne du Plessis.

  • Comment 165, posted at 15.12.11 07:52:24 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 165) : duh! Thanks… I have the attention span of a dead whale this morning.

    As for Olivier, I agree with you. Hugely underrated player everywhere other than at test level. But much better at 13 where his refusal to ever pass is less of an issue.

  • Comment 166, posted at 15.12.11 08:00:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 153) : Thats the kind of thinking most supporters should have, irrespective of who they support!

  • Comment 167, posted at 15.12.11 08:03:50 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 166) :

    Yup. Not a test level player, but heck he’s one of our very best at Super Rugby level.

  • Comment 168, posted at 15.12.11 08:18:27 by hendrikp Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 162) :

    Not at all . i believe Elton and Hollenbach are part of why the Lions are improving .

    I believe Elton has what it takes to be Big . If he goes on to be big will be dependent on him and how he performance .

    Hollenbach might not be the most talented player ever . But hes willingness to work hard makes him a great team player . the stories i heard about Jaque Fourie training at the Lions are …. not so good .

    But we really need to hang onto Elton and Taute .

  • Comment 169, posted at 15.12.11 08:54:34 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 166) : Maybe some time in the 13 jersey at the Bulls may seem him push for a Bok place again, especially if new coach only picks local guys. @hendrikp (Comment 168) : And before you say Sadie will play there…why cant Sadie play 12?

  • Comment 170, posted at 15.12.11 08:55:51 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 170) : Olivier looked good at 13 this currie cup because when he is at 12 he NEVER passes. ;-)

    Enough Said :mrgreen:

  • Comment 171, posted at 15.12.11 09:01:15 by Muzi Reply

    MuziVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 171) : Yes he doesnt pass at 12 as he believes his job is to catch and run straight until tackled then place the ball. At 13 he seemed to play with more freedom and ran off the 12 and 10 very well. A creative player like Sadie or Venter at 12 with Olivier running off them could be a dangerous Bulls combo….but chances of that happening…hmmm

  • Comment 172, posted at 15.12.11 09:14:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 155) : I do concede that home ground advantage does play a big role during play-off games, but the team still needs to pitch up on the day and perform, they can’t just rely on the fact that they are at home.

    @hendrikp (Comment 165) : Do you really feel that Killian is that bad? I agree he’s not Springbok quality, but the guy has never let the team down, and he does have a nose for the tryline.

  • Comment 173, posted at 15.12.11 09:46:23 by 13 Reply

    13Under 19 player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 170) :

    Sadie can play 12, he played there until recently actually… he’s just a better 13 perhaps? It’s like asking why Jaque Fourie can’t play 12. Silly question :mrgreen:

    @13 (Comment 173) :

    I don’t think Hollenbach is ‘that bad’. I just don’t think he’s going to be able to compete with the best. Not sure where you got the idea he’s got a nose for the tryline either. 3 tries isn’t much hey!

  • Comment 174, posted at 15.12.11 09:57:02 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 171) :

    Never passes… but heck it’s worked for the Bulls hasn’t it.

    I mean a bucket-load of Super Rugby and Currie Cup titles says it all.

    Just because he doesn’t do it doesn’t mean he can’t. Can’t blame a guy for not doing something when you’re telling him not to. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 175, posted at 15.12.11 10:00:39 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 174) :

    hehe . he is talking about Killian . im talking about Hollenbach ..

  • Comment 176, posted at 15.12.11 10:03:22 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 174) : The point i was making is that why cant we utilise guys in different positions where they have the skills that they would do well there. I think we too quick to say a specific player must play a certain position because of his size or strength or whatever. If more coaches thought outside the box in SA our rugby would go forward at a rapid rate.

  • Comment 177, posted at 15.12.11 10:06:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 176) :

    Whoops. Killian is about as average as you can get.

    He won’t let you down, but he’s not exactly dangerous either.

  • Comment 178, posted at 15.12.11 10:31:11 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 177) :

    Fair enough, but I think Sadie is best utilized out wide where he’s more of a runner with ball in hand rather then a distributor.

    Genuinely reckon 12 is the most difficult position on the field in senior rugby. Huge playmaking responsibility, you get rated on your ability with ball in hand also, and you regularly have to make the most tackles of any player on the field.

  • Comment 179, posted at 15.12.11 10:35:38 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Let us wait and see how the lions go against the cheetahs loosies .. And I’m talking ’bout juan smith,brussouw,johnson ;-)
    Then add in the front-row
    Locks could be even..
    Halfbacks..? Hmmm..in teresting..
    Centres and back three..have to wait and see- perhaps the lions on the balance of things?
    But it is all about how much damage the cheetahs front row and loosies can do ( and not just against the lions but plenty of teams ).that might put a player like goosen in a position to shine from broken play?

  • Comment 180, posted at 15.12.11 10:55:58 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 180) :

    it will be a tight Battle . but it will be won by the forwards . will be interesting to see what happens . dont think you can predict to much before hand .

  • Comment 181, posted at 15.12.11 10:59:06 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • I was glad the sharks didn’t have to contend against a cheetahs team in the semi with juan smith and brussow ..and so should the lions have been also ;-)

  • Comment 182, posted at 15.12.11 10:59:18 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 177) : Its exactly that “out of the box” thinking that led to the Sharks losing Pienaar and Steyn. Play a player in his best suited position and keep him there. That’s how I feel.

  • Comment 183, posted at 15.12.11 11:00:46 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 183) :

    Agreed… sort of.

    I don’t think he meant messing guys around in different positions, and not everybody is as uptight as Pienaar & Frans.

    Frans had a case to make, he’s proven that 12 is easily his best position, but Ruan probably would’ve been at his very best at flyhalf – he just didn’t want to.

    Rather he meant assessing their skill-sets and then playing them in a position that best fits that… like Pierre Spies on the wing for example, something he was never opposed to. Need to have an open mind sometimes.

  • Comment 184, posted at 15.12.11 11:32:38 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 184) : Yeh thats kinda wat i mean. Pienaar and Steyn had their own issues and moving around the backline was just anm excuse believe me. I cant tell my employer where and when i want to work and its the same with them…the Sharks employ and pay them and they should do as told. What i meant ,and taking Olivier as an example, his game has stagnated at 12 BUT he has the attributes to be a good 13..so move him there and see if he can rejuvenate his career. Its kinda the same thing with moving Wickus Van Heerdan to lock.

  • Comment 185, posted at 15.12.11 14:22:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK: think it is bit of a different situation re: employer/employee. A rugby union/sports union needs to have a good name( work environment,being a place where a player can develop to his best ,etc) amongst rugby players/sportsmen so as to retain who they have and to have something to bargain with when trying to attract new players.

  • Comment 186, posted at 15.12.11 14:37:36 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 181) :

    Tell you what. If I were the Lions, and rumors about their financial situation are true, I’d be targetting players who might be desperate for game-time elsewhere but come with big reputations.

    - A guy like Kyle Cooper or PW van Vuuren at hooker. Maku is a good rugby player, but has the mobility of a decent prop.

    - If they don’t think Ruan Botha can be a starter for them at senior level, target a line-out lock like Wilhelm Steenkamp (too late now maybe?), Pieter Steph du Toit or even Eben Etzebeth.

    - Someone to add something to that midfield. In this case Frans would be perfect as a 12. Aren’t many top quality midfielders that aren’t tied up so they might have to spend big money there.

    - Then maybe try get their hands on some of the extra loose-forwards floating around. Somebody like Nizaam Carr or CJ Stander would be a good addition.

  • Comment 187, posted at 15.12.11 16:12:09 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     

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