robdylan

In the bleak midwinter….


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks on 19 Dec 2011 at 09:45
Tagged with : , , ,

Well, strictly speaking, it’s not winter at all in South Africa and particularly not in KwaZulu Natal. In fact, the summer holidays are well underway and while the weather may not always completely play along, time spent outdoors with family and friends will certainly dominate proceedings over the next few weeks.

When it comes to finding rugby (and particularly Sharks) related news to bring you, though, it is a cold, barren period indeed; simply put, with everyone enjoying a well-deserved Christmas break, there’s simply nothing going on out there.

Now, I’ve learned a few things in my time about running a rugby website and one of the most important ones is that you NEVER shut down, regardless of whether there’s anything going on or not. Rest assured, fans, this post is not an indication that Sharksworld is going to throw in the towel for the next few weeks – we’ll just keep ticking over with whatever news we can find. The other things I’ve learned, though, is that we can always count on some of our newer members to turn ANY thread, regardless of its content, into a discussion about schoobloy rugby, so with that aim in mind, we may as well get the ball rolling for the 19 December instalment!

Once slight whisper I’ve heard, just by the by, is that both Wandi Mjekevu and Morgan Newman are likely to be invited back to continue training with the Sharks in January. Whether that actually means contracts or not remains to be seen, but it seems that both have cleared the first hurdle.



98 Comments

  • Yip, also found Dick Muir + John Plumtree in Hilton having a beer or two…
    Wonder what the discussions were about….

  • Comment 1, posted at 19.12.11 10:12:36 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • Well there is one thing the sharks management can deliver in the off season . . . . A Flasher Girl Calendar for 2012 ! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 2, posted at 19.12.11 10:14:26 by Original Pierre Reply
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    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • Concur with @beet: wouldve signed mjekevu immediately .
    Put newman on trial period to see what he brings to the team.

  • Comment 3, posted at 19.12.11 10:15:24 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 2) : AWE… +100000 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 4, posted at 19.12.11 10:16:48 by Uli Reply
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  • @Uli: now THAT is interesting …

  • Comment 5, posted at 19.12.11 10:18:59 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Uli (Comment 1) : They were probably just catching up – I wouldn’t read too much into it.

  • Comment 6, posted at 19.12.11 10:22:19 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Uli:meant comment 1 and not comment5 :-D

  • Comment 7, posted at 19.12.11 10:22:57 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Uli:hilton,as in pmb? you from pmb?

  • Comment 8, posted at 19.12.11 10:24:18 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Comment4 ..correction :-|

  • Comment 9, posted at 19.12.11 10:34:05 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Bloody far from midwinter here today. An expected 37degrees. I spend most of the long weekend in water of some kind. Not the sea unfortunately but either the pool or jacuzzi.

    It’s tuff in Africa indeed! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 10, posted at 19.12.11 10:38:29 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 9) : you confusing yourself again? :)

  • Comment 11, posted at 19.12.11 10:38:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan: :-D

  • Comment 12, posted at 19.12.11 10:42:08 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Well I will do my level best to keep Sharksworld on track to start this week :mrgreen:

    So here goes nothing. What I was thinking about today:

    One thing is guaranteed for 2012. Change is going to come. Right now as I see things, the Cheetahs. Lions, Bulls and Stormers starting lineups look a lot more settled than the Sharks. So possibly the big surprise packages of the season, similar to Sias Ebersohn rise in 2011, will emerge out of one or all these sides as young up and coming players appear out of the blue to stamp their authority on the SR competition.

    At the Sharks, in terms of predicting a starting line-up, things aren’t so clear. The kickoff frontrow is easy enough to predict, the real question is who gets the nod on the bench van Staden or Herbst. As for the 2nd row, Plum has done his best to create a mini crisis at no.4 by picking Deysel at the backend of the season and it’s really anyone’s guess who’ll get first shot at jumping at 2 in the setpiece, but there is a really good chance it WON’T be Deysel. Skeate is overwhelming favourite to don on the no. 5 jersey based on his good form in 2011. The backrow permanents look to be Daniel and Alberts, meaning that Deysel and Kankowski battling it out for the last berth. If Marcell Coetzee shows the same % improvement that he did over this period in 2010/11, he’s bound to upset the apple cart. It might also be a tricky determining which l/fwd plays where as all of them seem to be pretty flexible.
    One can assume that McLoed is first choice at 9. Sadly no.10 is still a huge ?. One thing is assured. Lambie will be a starting player in 1 of 3 positions on the field in 2012. Pietersen is tick for 11. It’s reasonable to believe that both Whitehead and Viljoen will wear jerseys with no’s below 16, the latter being an obvious choice for 15, while it remains to be seen if the former is handed the 12 or 13 jumper. No.14 is another “your guess is as good as mine”. Personally I’d love to see Mvovo here but with Mjekevu, Sithole and veteran Odwa still on the books, it’s appears to be an open race. One of the safest fullbacks around, Ludik to me is a long shot but fans around here still have much faith in him and there have even been suggestions that he could fit in at 14 where’s he’s played for the Golden Lions or possible even 13, which to be honest seems a bit of a stretch in S/Hemisphere rugby conditions.

    But the real question I’d like to ask is do the Sharks have a relatively unknown young player in their stable (aside from Lambie who’s already proven his quality) who’s going make this his breakthru season by taking the SR compo of 2012 by the scruff of the neck and really WOW! us with his impressive match winning qualities??????????

  • Comment 13, posted at 19.12.11 10:43:54 by beet Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 8) : yip I am :)

  • Comment 14, posted at 19.12.11 10:46:36 by Uli Reply
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  • @beet:hoping that young player is found somewhere at lock..like no4 lock..

  • Comment 15, posted at 19.12.11 10:49:26 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @beet: I know he isn’t a fav of yours,but I’m hoping to see kockott back at the sharks as soon as possible – but,be needs to improve his passing game.

  • Comment 16, posted at 19.12.11 10:54:20 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • I would love to see the Sharks win a trophy or 2 next year but the main thing id love to see in 2012 from the Sharks and every South African sides is an improvement on defense so that opposition sides really struggle to score tries against us as opposed to the SA sides being a guaranteed 1 point for scoring 4 of more tries against them! So yes thats what i would like in my Christmas Stocking- an improved defense in 2012!

  • Comment 17, posted at 19.12.11 10:55:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Rory Kockott only 25 now… still got allot left in him…

  • Comment 18, posted at 19.12.11 11:00:00 by Uli Reply
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  • @SheldonK: agree!good defence creates opp for turn-over ball and that will create the try scoring chances ( just hone those handling skills in the off season,as they been doing ).

  • Comment 19, posted at 19.12.11 11:03:01 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Uli: agree re: kockott.he just needs to bring his passing game up to intl standard,because he can play for the boks.but it all starts with the pass for a scrumhalf.

  • Comment 20, posted at 19.12.11 11:07:40 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 19) : Im just so tired of seeing NZ or OZ teams running in easy tries against SA sides. ANd even in the CC the games were very high scoring with little emphasis on defense. The lack of defense, especially in the CC, makes teams attacking skills look better than they actually are.

  • Comment 21, posted at 19.12.11 11:08:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 7) : It would be easier to follow if you used the reply to comment function.

  • Comment 22, posted at 19.12.11 11:15:31 by lostfish Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 20) : Kockott needs to learn to PASS instead of breaking off on suicide runs, getting isolated and turned over. His suicide runs occasionally work but he really needs to pass more.

  • Comment 23, posted at 19.12.11 11:16:35 by lostfish Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 23) : I agree with u. If a scrumhalf snipes around the fringes everytime then its easy for him to be turned over. If a scrumhalf passes the majority of balls of the base and only runs occasionally then his runs are a lot more effetcive as they as used more as a surprise.

  • Comment 24, posted at 19.12.11 11:21:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • He needs to emulate the 2010 sr game vs stormers .he played a super game (not faultless,but huge improvement!).he was also helped out by other players taking over the role of scrummie to get the ball away quickly from breakdowns.

  • Comment 25, posted at 19.12.11 11:29:00 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Been thinking about it, I reckon we don’t really need Wandile or Morgan. Jordaan was picked ahead of Wandile(Outside centre) at the start of past U20 World Champs; and 12 is well covered at the moment. Players that can play 12 -Bosman, Joubert, Whitehead, Viljoen, Lambie and Jordaan. Can Play 13- Joubert, Whitehead, Jordaan and Lindeque. I would back what we currently have Everyone except for Joubert and Viljoen have more than 5 years to offer, they all young, so build some consistency in the centre positions…something that has been hard to come by the last few years.

    Just to mention, the classic 4/enforcer role is drifting away, the more rounded players, like taller looseforwards will be taking over the reigns in future. Juan Smith for Bok captain from the No. 4 Position ;-)

    Morgan can maybe be used as a Sharks XV leader to add depth, but signing Wandile would be stupid when we have Jordaan there, IMO.

  • Comment 26, posted at 19.12.11 11:29:32 by JJR Reply
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  • Kockott does bring a lot defensively to the 9 position.he is a competitor.

  • Comment 27, posted at 19.12.11 11:31:06 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JJR: like the call of juan. Smith at 4..I think @hendrikp had a few laughs when I mentioned that (and juan smith as bok capt ).

  • Comment 28, posted at 19.12.11 11:35:50 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JJR (Comment 26) : U do make a good point regarding Newman and Mjekevu…by the sounds of it they looking for those two to play more Vodacom Cup and just add depth rather than be an integral part of the Superrugby side. As for the no.4 lock, why cant Skeate and Hargreaves play lock if u have ALberts,Deysel and Kanko/Coetzee as loosies? I see no reason why1 (Altho Hargreaves needs to pull his socks up a bit)

  • Comment 29, posted at 19.12.11 11:36:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @JJR: wandile has proven him a real finisher at sr level ,but playing on the wing.

  • Comment 30, posted at 19.12.11 11:37:48 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK: think newman was brought in on trial basis for vodacom squad ,but wandile was brought in on trial for the sr squad.
    Although,both can be offered vodacom cup or sr contracts..or neither any contract.

  • Comment 31, posted at 19.12.11 11:41:31 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK: ali hargs must def pull up those socks.
    When we lost sykes and mostert,we lost about 240_245kg in the second row..and quite a bit of experience.

  • Comment 32, posted at 19.12.11 11:44:29 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 32) : Yeh but when Hargreaves is fit etc we have seen what he can do- CC Semi Final 2010 against the Bulls. A lot of people say that there must be a tall skinny jumping lock and an enforcer lock- i think thats garbage! There is no reason if fit why Hargreaves and Skeate cant play together…means they should win our lineout ball effectively and disrupt the opposition lineout. And with their being more lineouts than scrums teams use the lineout to attack a lot these days. The scrums are a lottery the way they are reffed.

  • Comment 33, posted at 19.12.11 11:53:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 28) : And Juan according to the opposition is one of the most feared loose forwards. He can play that aggresive role from 4, he is also one of the best loose forwards i have seen come lineout time and he has been a leader for a number of years. With soo many quality looseforwards and a lack of established No.4′s at the moment in SA, Smith at 4 could be a master stroke and extend his career by a couple of years, look what the move to lock has done for Van Heerden.

    The Future is exciting indeed, Boks gonna have a great blend of experience and exciting new blood the next four years…exciting. Sharks find themselves in a similar situation, with a lot of experience having left the last 1-2 years. I’m Keen for 2012!

  • Comment 34, posted at 19.12.11 12:20:49 by JJR Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 29) : Yes, i actually want Skeate and Hargreaves lock combo; but to keep the balmce of the pack right, i would go for a Big, but still Mobile loose trio. My favourite Trio would be Marcell, Deysel and Alberts. No fetcher some might say…keegan doesn’t fetch anyway, so i would rather have the very effective ball carrying and defence of Coetzee; i alos believe he has the potential and attributes to also steal ball at the breakdown.

  • Comment 35, posted at 19.12.11 12:23:43 by JJR Reply
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  • @JJR (Comment 35) : Keegans form over the CC doesn’t warrant a starting spot either. Lets hope he gets his mojo back.

  • Comment 36, posted at 19.12.11 12:34:53 by lostfish Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 13) :

    Reckon they’d be mad not to start Kankowski 99% of the time. Excellent link between backs and forwards… perfect eighthman to have in Super Rugby.

  • Comment 37, posted at 19.12.11 12:57:52 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Think the Sharks really have to start with Jandre Marais, or let him go when his contract comes up for renewal.

    If they don’t see him as their solution to the problems at 4-lock, then they need to find someone who can do the job. At the moment it’s a lot of 5 locks but no grunt.

  • Comment 38, posted at 19.12.11 13:00:13 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 28) :

    If I had to pick one of Juan Smith & Willem Alberts to play lock though… I’d pick Juan.

    Think you need a different sort of player in that jersey though. Less of a ball-carrier & more defensive orientated.

  • Comment 39, posted at 19.12.11 13:05:56 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JJR (Comment 26) :

    Jordaan was actually on the bench while Mjekevu was starting (every game if I remember correctly)… but on the wing.

    But I don’t think Mjekevu has the x-factor to be a big success at that level anyway. Doesn’t look to have the little things extra that could set him apart. Won’t go down with a few who are rooting for him though :mrgreen:

  • Comment 40, posted at 19.12.11 13:08:26 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Wadup Sharksworld…

  • Comment 41, posted at 19.12.11 13:32:21 by Ben Reply
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  • I would go with Skeate and Hargreaves, Skeate playing at 4. Its not ideal but that is the only option at the moment. I like Jandre Marais and Anton Bresler and i would make sure they both get plenty of opportunities in that 4 jersey, but at the moment i think we have to go with Hargreaves and Skeate.

    As for the backline i really hope Jordaan comes through. He has serious talent and I would use him as an impact player off the bench initially and see how he develops.

    I would like to see Lambie or Hargreaves as captain as we need somebody local or failing that maybe Alberts. I would go with

    15 Viljoen
    14 Pieterson
    13 Whitehead/Joubert
    12 Bosman
    11 Mvovo
    10 Lambie (c)
    9 McLeod
    8 Kankowski
    7 Alberts
    6 Coetzee
    5 Hargreaves (vc)
    4 Skeate
    3 Jannie Du Pless
    2 Bismark
    1 Beast

    16 Burden
    17 Van Staden
    18 Bresler/Marais
    19 Deysel
    20 Hoffmann
    21 Michalak
    22 Jordaan

  • Comment 42, posted at 19.12.11 13:34:31 by Pat Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 40) : Didn’t Jordaan start the first game at 13? Doesn’t really matter, if i had to pick between Jordaan and Mjekevu for 13, i would go Jordaan evry day of the week. Jordaan is faster, both of the mark and Top speed, Jordaan has way more handling and creative skills, reason why he has played a lot at 10. Jordaan even has a better step than Mjekevu, Wandile just steps without prupose if you know what i mean…stepping for the sake of stepping. What can i say, i will always be a P.Jordaan fan.

  • Comment 43, posted at 19.12.11 13:35:38 by JJR Reply
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  • @ JJR (Comment 26) : sorry I would play my granny at 12/13 rather than Joubert! He was rubbish this season! Sick of seeing the headless chicken in the Black and White! NO more free rides at the Sharks this year, I hope!

    @hendrikp (Comment 38) : I agree with you here. Personally I far prefer Jan Andre to Hargreaves. Alistair is inconsistent has a good game then follows it by average performances. He also lacks the agro for a lock, more of a tall pussy cat really.

  • Comment 44, posted at 19.12.11 13:36:46 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's DudetteSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Pat (Comment 42) : Jeez, no Keegan Daniel in your 22. Big mistake..

  • Comment 45, posted at 19.12.11 13:36:57 by Ben Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 40) :

    I think Mjekevu has talent but at this stage he is not physical and imposing enough to play at 13. Any role in the Sharks would be restricted to wing, and besides i think we have enough players already. Id still sign him thought, and wouldnt sign Newman, id back Lindeqe, Heimar Williams and Jordaan over him.

  • Comment 46, posted at 19.12.11 13:37:38 by Pat Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • My Fav 22 for Superugby 2012 Sharks-

    1.Beast
    2.Bizzie
    3.Jannie
    4.Skeate(C)
    5.Hargreaves
    6.Coetzee
    7.Deysel
    8.Alberts
    9.Michalak
    10.Lambie
    11.JPP
    12.Bosman
    13.Joubert
    14.Ndungane
    15.Viljoen

    16.Burds
    17.Van Staden
    18.Kankowski
    19.Keegan
    20.Mcloed
    21.Whitehead
    22.Jordaan

  • Comment 47, posted at 19.12.11 13:39:53 by JJR Reply
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    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Ben (Comment 45) :

    Maybe in the 22 off the bench depending on what team the Sharks are playing. He is a no 8 not a fetcher, so he can rotate with Kankowski. I would try and make Coetzee into more of a fetcher at this stage and ensure that him and Bismark work in tandem at the breakdown.

  • Comment 48, posted at 19.12.11 13:40:34 by Pat Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @JJR (Comment 47) : My Fav 22 for Superugby 2012 Sharks-

    1.Beast
    2.Bizzie (c)
    3.Jannie
    4.Jan Andre
    5.Skeate
    6.Coetzee
    7.Deysel
    8.Alberts
    9.Michelk
    10.Lambie
    11.JPP
    12.Bosman
    13.Whitehead
    14.Mvovo
    15.Viljoen

    16.Burds
    17.Van Staden
    18.Kankowski
    19.Keegan
    20.Mcloed
    21.Ludik (covers wing and f/back)
    22.Jordaan/ndungane

  • Comment 49, posted at 19.12.11 13:52:03 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's DudetteSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 44) : hahahahaha!! But I wholeheartedly agree!

  • Comment 50, posted at 19.12.11 14:13:32 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 37) : Kankowski…hasn’t had a good game in ages; and under performs even more when the weather and pitch conditions are not perfect. Too one dimensional…needs to add something else.

  • Comment 51, posted at 19.12.11 14:16:10 by JJR Reply
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  • @JJR (Comment 51) :

    Not always necessarily about having the guy who is making an impression… you’ve got to have the right balance for what you want to do.

    Kanko is a huge line-out threat at the back which is great attacking ball, is more rangy then any of the other loose-forwards mentioned…

    The balance just feels better with Kanko in there, I think :mrgreen:

  • Comment 52, posted at 19.12.11 14:51:41 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • I can fully understand fans not backing Daniel at the moment (his current form ain’t great) but I’m pretty sure he’s be the designated captain come the start of the 2012 season and therefore a guaranteed starter.

    Should our campaign start to go south at some point, I’d expect the captain to feel the pressure and maybe even see him hand over control to go to another player either willingly or be force. I’m not sure who tho.

    I agree with blogger Pat that Lambie is a captain in the making but I very much doubt he will be thrown into the deep end a some point during 2012 season unless he is the settled upon first choice no.10 from day 1 of the new season.

    At this stage I have no idea who the Sharks vice captain/s will be. I do however believe that apart from uncertainties over the l/fwd combo, the flyhalf, right wing and fullback and questionmarks about the abilities of the no.4 lock, the scrumhalf and the midfield to step up to the required SR level of competence, a HUGE worry for all Sharks fans has to be the leadership pedigree of Daniel.

  • Comment 53, posted at 19.12.11 15:05:05 by beet Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 52) : Kanko is a player that can’t be overlooked with the condition being that he produces his form from seasons prior to 2011.

    He has x-factor potential, is a game-breaker and has won us matches in the past.

    I however fear that he may have been over-reliant on his pace before and now that it appears to have deserted him, he has to work extra hard to reinvent himself as what you said above ” excellent link” player. I don’t think Alberts being given some of his previous responsibilities is helping Kanko’s cause either.

  • Comment 54, posted at 19.12.11 15:12:11 by beet Reply
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  • The idea of moving Fred Michalak closer to the scrum seems to be enjoying growing momentum amongst Sharksworld fans and it will be interesting to know if the Sharks coaching staff are entertaining this same idea for the season ahead :?: :?: :?:

  • Comment 55, posted at 19.12.11 15:20:52 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 53) : “I do however believe that apart from uncertainties over the l/fwd combo, the flyhalf, right wing and fullback and questionmarks about the abilities of the no.4 lock, the scrumhalf and the midfield to step up to the required SR level of competence, a HUGE worry for all Sharks fans has to be the leadership pedigree of Daniel.”

    Isn’t it just great to be a Sharks fan? With Super Rugby looming in the not-too-distant future, at least we can take comfort in the certainty we have in the performance of our front row, one lock and one wing… I bet fans from other unions are sick with envy :mrgreen:

  • Comment 56, posted at 19.12.11 15:24:17 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 56) : :lol:

  • Comment 57, posted at 19.12.11 15:30:41 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's DudetteSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Culling Song: :-D

  • Comment 58, posted at 19.12.11 15:50:00 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @beet: I think the call for michalak at 9 is also to ensure lambie gets the ten jersey.
    With michalak most probably set to leave for france at the end of his contract with the sharks (june/july?),won’t it almost be better to see if he can’t be released now and take that money to buy kockott out of his contract?
    The thing is: we need to build a 9/10 combo.so even if it isn’t kockott,then I feel macleod needs to step-up (dunno ’bout hoffman,but let’s see what he puts into the off-season’s training).

  • Comment 59, posted at 19.12.11 15:57:52 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 56) : The uncertainties aren’t about quality, just about who should be first choice due to compo for possies.

    The ? are the more serious concerns. So that makes 4,9,12,13 our areas of concern imho. These are the possies where we are going to need the younger guys or newbies to really put their hands up and be counted in 2012.

    Also I think the captain merits a starting berth as a player which is important. It’s his leadership that is questionable.

    So 4/15 problems. Still bad but not enough to send other unions to the ICU with envy sickness just yet :mrgreen:

  • Comment 60, posted at 19.12.11 15:59:32 by beet Reply
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  • Kockott brings a goalkicking boot with him,but also a passing game that isn’t the best around..but why this hasn’t been worked on whilst at the sharks,I dunno??not enough balls to go around at training?or were the coaches not interested on working with the player after hours?

  • Comment 61, posted at 19.12.11 16:04:08 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • 9,12 and 13.. Close on half of the backline :-|

  • Comment 62, posted at 19.12.11 16:07:02 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @beet (Comment 60) : Assuming Pat is handed the 10 jumper, my concerns would be 4, 6, 9, 12, 13 and the captaincy armband. Keegan’s most compelling performances have (for me) been at 8, and I believe him and Hoff should be rotating/competing for that spot, but that would throw a spanner in the leadership works…

  • Comment 63, posted at 19.12.11 16:12:27 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @hendrikp makes a good point re: kanko’s lineout ability.

  • Comment 64, posted at 19.12.11 16:24:30 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • ..Especially if we gonna select short props :-D

  • Comment 65, posted at 19.12.11 16:33:44 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Although he will jump most of the time at the back.

  • Comment 66, posted at 19.12.11 16:35:03 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Man…i wish we had Rockett back now…i feel so uneasy with Mcloed and Hoffmann as our no.1 and 2 scrumhalf. Hoping Michalak gets the Nod at 9 though. Sharks perform a lot more consistently with Lambie at 10. Some of Fred’s best performances in France have been at 9, so i really want to see what him and Lambie can do as a combo.

    Mcloed and Hoffmann are the Kings of the silly errors.

  • Comment 67, posted at 19.12.11 17:12:14 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • would like to see this 22

    1)Beast
    2)Bismark
    3)Jannie
    4)Jan Andre
    5)Skeate
    6)Alberts
    7)Deysel
    8)Coetzee
    9)Michalak
    10)Lambie
    11)JPP
    12)Viljoen
    13)Whitehead
    14)Mvovo
    15)Ludik
    16)Burden
    17)Wiehahn Herbst
    18)Kankowski
    19)Keegan
    20)Mcloed
    21)Jordaan
    22)Sithole

  • Comment 68, posted at 19.12.11 17:46:55 by BR Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Currie Cup player
     
  • @BR (Comment 68) : Maybe want to swop Alberts and Deysel? I think Mvovo would like to switch wings ;-) Not far off the 22 i like; Glad to see Sharks fans thinking alike. Especially like the fact that fans prefer that loose trio combo and the Michalak/Lambie halfback combo :smile:

  • Comment 69, posted at 19.12.11 19:13:28 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • - Daniel might not be the greatest fetcher, but still plays to the ball better then any of the other loose-forwards mentioned. He’s a must. They’d be shooting themselves in the foot going in without him.

    - I’d pick Marcell Coetzee, Willem Alberts & Ryan Kankowski as the other 3 loose-forwards. Never been a big fan of Jean Deysel – overrated, like a Deon Stegmann type, IMO.

    - Paul Jordaan needs to start at centre. Need someone with the pace to break the line and then do something after they’ve done that. Whitehead would make a better 10 then a 13 IMO, but could make a good short-term solution I guess.

    - And I’d go with Hoffmann at scrumhalf, but that’s just me :mrgreen:

  • Comment 70, posted at 20.12.11 00:39:05 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • MY ideal Sharks 22:

    1 Beast Mtawarira
    2 Bismarck du Plessis
    3 Jannie du Plessis
    4 Jandre Marais
    5 Ross Skeate
    6 Keegan Daniel
    7 Willem Alberts
    8 Ryan Kankowski
    9 Conrad Hoffmann
    10 Patrick Lambie
    11 JP Pietersen
    12 Meyer Bosman / Tim Whitehead
    13 Paul Jordaan
    14 Odwa Ndungane
    15 Riaan Viljoen

    16 Craig Burden
    17 Eugene van Staden
    18 Alistair Hargreaves
    19 Marcell Coetzee
    20 Charl McLeod
    21 ??
    22 ??

    Wouldn’t really care who takes up those last 2 :mrgreen:

  • Comment 71, posted at 20.12.11 00:52:30 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 71) :

    Random thoughts:

    - If they’ve got Michalak on the bench, with 2 backline bench positions usually reserved for a scrumhalf and flyhalf, they’d have a position for possibly another forward, especially considering the number of players in the probable starting backline who can already play flyhalf also.

    I’d go with either Herbst or Deysel as the extra player on the bench.

    Regarding the Cheetahs… something I’ve been thinking about:

    They should give Coenie Oosthuizen game time at hooker. Make him comfortable in the position. Opens up the bench options (for both the Cheetahs & Springboks) and increases his value.

  • Comment 72, posted at 20.12.11 06:35:41 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 72) : Firstly Coenie Oosthuizen at hooker is the worst idea ever, and i was just starting to take u seriously! ;) As much as the Sharks starting xv interest me, its the composition of the bench that could be even more interesting. The guys on the bench have to make an impact or offer something different when they come on. No longer are the guys on the bench just there to replace an injured or tired player. Very often the guys on the bench need to change or win a game. So guys like Burden,Herbst, Kleinhans/Cloete, Deysel, Mvovo, Michalak are guys that i think would make a good impact off the bench!

  • Comment 73, posted at 20.12.11 07:55:42 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 71) :

    Do you think if they didnt try a guy like Paul Jordaan in the watered down CC they would try him in SR ?

  • Comment 74, posted at 20.12.11 08:00:41 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 74) : Anyone know if JLP is still in Durbs? Cos i have a feeling Jordaan will be at 10 for the Vodacom Cup side…

  • Comment 75, posted at 20.12.11 08:11:01 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 63) : I think ur concern about no.6 is valid. I’d be lying if I said I was completely comfortable with our opensider options at the moment. Altho part of me says I should be content with the quality of our l/fwds, another part cries out: “Hell! I’m not a long suffering Lions or Cheetahs fan. I have a legit right to go into a season believing my team can win SR and therefore I don’t have to set my squad expectations too low”. I want the best available options for my team. Villie actually mentioned a useful player Bouwer from the Pumas about a week back. I can’t see it hurting to give him a trial run. Not many SW fans are talking about Botes right now.

    I also disagree to an extent with those who say the fetching role should be the responsibility of all players or all forwards in a team. Yes all players should be coached up to effect turnovers at rucks but this line of generalised rugby league type thinking doesn’t pay enough respect to the healthy combo of general and specialist skills needed to succeed in the far superior game of rugby union. There has been much evidence over the years to suggest that a specialist opensider who performs his fetching role well is worth his weight in gold and is an easily identifiable match winner, purely because of his defensive abilities.

  • Comment 76, posted at 20.12.11 08:17:05 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @beet (Comment 76) : Beet im one of those people that say the fetching role is the responsibility of the whole team and to be honest the only reason the likes of Brussouw,Pocock and McCaw are made to look good is the poor standard of refereeing in the modern game. Watch the RWC Semi…Joubert applied the rules correctly which negated Pocock and showed McCaws other qualities.

  • Comment 77, posted at 20.12.11 08:28:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 73) : That’s interesting about the bench.

    I kind of like the traditional reasoning behind selecting a bench: one that covers all the possibities, injuries and tactical subs fairly well so that the team in adversely effected when a sub comes on. I hope that the fresh legs accounts for the impact part if the sub comes on in the last quarter but essentially it’s a change in game plan or tactics that I’d count on to change the course of a game if things aren’t going my way or if I’m chasing a BP. This wud involve the whole team adapting to change in approach, not just 3 or 4 subs playing a different style.
    If I’m in the lead in the game, I really want to maintain the standard that brought about the winning formula. So possibly I’d want minimum disruptions to the team doing the job but I’d want to counter subs that my opponents make, again coz I’m a believer that fresh legs work better than 60min old ones. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 78, posted at 20.12.11 08:33:30 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @beet (Comment 78) : I kinda get what you saying and im just raising a point here…why do SA players seem to be conditioned for 60min but guys in NZ or OZ can play the full 80 week in week out? It just kinda goes with your fresh legs point. The reason i raise the point of the bench is taking the Ndungane/Mvovo scenario…id rather have Mvovo coming off the bench as Ndungane off the bench would be solid without really being able to change the game with express pace. Same goes with the Alberts/Deysel rotation that seemed to work well. If we say Daniel is captain then why cant guys work in pairs so for instance Alberts/Kanko with Deysel/Coetzee on the bench, then the following week Deysel/Coetzee start with Alberts/Kanko bench…

  • Comment 79, posted at 20.12.11 08:44:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 73) :

    Why would Coenie Oosthuizen being a part-time hooker be such a bad thing? If Ollie could do it… He’s got a workrate most prop forwards will never get close to.

    @Zibbie (Comment 74) :

    Hardly the point is it :mrgreen: Jandre Marais isn’t going to be there either… yet I still he should be.

  • Comment 80, posted at 20.12.11 09:16:35 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • I just saw some sad news that De Wet Barry lost his 2 year old son.

  • Comment 81, posted at 20.12.11 09:16:39 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 80) : Coenie was just starting to play both sides of the scrum quite successfully so he should continue to do that to increase his value. There is a lot more to hooker than just being mobile and standing in the middle of the scrum.At the moment Coenie”s workout is very high but so is his penalty count! And Ollie wasnt a good hooker!

  • Comment 82, posted at 20.12.11 09:21:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 81) : Yeh he had a lung infection…poor kid! Condolences to the Barry family and friends.

  • Comment 83, posted at 20.12.11 09:22:14 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 82) : Ollie was also an average prop.

  • Comment 84, posted at 20.12.11 09:23:50 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • @lostfish (Comment 84) : But he knew how to eat a burger :)

  • Comment 85, posted at 20.12.11 09:34:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 82) :

    You’re making it out to be much more difficult then it is :mrgreen:

    Having versatility in the front-row is much more valuable then we sometimes realize. Him being able to play anywhere in the front-row means being having different options from the bench… I’m not asking for him to be a genuine starting option there. I’m saying let him practice his line-out throwing, and give him a few chances – if possible – to prove that he can play there also.

  • Comment 86, posted at 20.12.11 09:37:26 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 85) : That was his true talent.

  • Comment 87, posted at 20.12.11 09:46:41 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 86) : I just think he should concentrate on prop as he is nowhere near the finished article there yet. And there are plenty of other good hookers in the free state and country for that matter. Hooker is a specialist position, line-out throwing and scrumming at hooker are not something you just do a few times in your spare time and then play professional rugby there. The idea is good but very unlikely.

  • Comment 88, posted at 20.12.11 09:52:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @beet (Comment 76) :

    I would like to see the Sharks have a look at Corne Steenkamp, everytime he’s played he stands out as a mongrel type 6 that could do a job, and would bring leadership. I was also mightily impressed with Jaco Bouwer, he is very powerful, though I may be wrong but he seems more of a carrying flank, i.e. a blindsider than an out and out opensider.

  • Comment 89, posted at 20.12.11 10:58:09 by Pat Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • The Sharks team I would love to see.

    1 Beast Mtawarira
    2 Bismarck du Plessis
    3 Jannie du Plessis
    4 Willem Alberts
    5 Ross Skeate
    6 Botes
    7 Jean Deysal
    8 Ryan Kanko
    9 Freddie
    10 Patrick Lambie
    11 JP Pietersen
    12 Meyer Bosman
    13 Tim Whitehead
    14 Mvovo
    15 Riaan Viljoen

    16 Craig Burden
    17 Herbst
    18 Alistair Hargreaves
    19 Keegan
    20 Charl McLeod
    21 Ludik
    22 Wandile

    Marcell Coetzee should be sent to that NZ rugby institute to learn to become a fetcher.

  • Comment 90, posted at 20.12.11 11:15:28 by Mocho Reply

    MochoVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Pat (Comment 89) : Both Steenkamp and Bouwer stood out for the Pumas but i think the Sharks feel that they are well covered at loose forward, hence the reason Rhodes and now Adonga were let go.

  • Comment 91, posted at 20.12.11 11:23:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Mocho (Comment 90) :
    I agree re Coetzee, I think he should develop his breakdown skills, but possibly dont think we should make him and out and out fetcher because he carries a lot, and some players that are natural flanks or 8′s dont always adapt that easily. If you’ve ever seen Sean O’Brien for Ireland he is great as a ball carrier but tends to be less effective as a opensider. I reckon that as the Sharks have Bismarck and as he is potent at the breakdown the Sharks can get away with playing someone less of an out and out opensider like Coetzee, but i would like to see him develop his skills more in that area.

  • Comment 92, posted at 20.12.11 11:41:24 by Pat Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @Pat (Comment 92) : Brussouw is just as good as a ball carrier as he is a fetcher. It would be the same for Marcell.

  • Comment 93, posted at 20.12.11 11:48:59 by Mocho Reply

    MochoVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Mocho (Comment 93) : I love Marcell’s work but I think his body dimensions are out of sync with those of a typical fetcher type player.

    Ideally I think a smaller framed guy with a good low centre of gravity fits the profile of an opensider best unless the player is a freak. These dimension seem to work better for things like speed to the breakdown, getting back onto the feet after making a tackle and bending really low over the tackled player while getting hands on the ball and strength to withstand the efforts of cleaners long enough to effect turnovers.

    I think Marcell will be seriously challenged to excel in a few of these departments.

    Like Hendrik said about Kanko, I wud much prefer to see Marcell up his link play. Also his decision making with ball in hand is an area he has to work on. His defence and strength are right up there with the best of the best tho. :smile:

  • Comment 94, posted at 20.12.11 12:30:52 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Pat (Comment 89) : I really liked what I saw of Corne Steenkamp this season.

    It’s unfortunate that we don’t have a less restrictive budget so that we could at least try a few of these smaller union players out for a couple of months prior the start of the season.

  • Comment 95, posted at 20.12.11 12:34:47 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • @beet: you don’t think some of these smaller union players would jump at the opportunity to train on a trial basis with the sharks pre-season with the possibility of making sw aquad?

  • Comment 96, posted at 22.12.11 13:32:20 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Meant superrugby squad not sw squad :-D

  • Comment 97, posted at 22.12.11 13:33:28 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • But I suppose one would still have to pay the union the player is contracted to for the trial period?

  • Comment 98, posted at 22.12.11 13:36:14 by bergshark Reply

    bergsharkSuper Rugby player
     

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