robdylan

Sharks selection picture becomes a little clearer


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 6 Feb 2012 at 11:00
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , ,

John Plumtree has revealed that he sees the final warm up game, against the Kings in PE, as a “dress rehearsal” for the season opener against the Bulls the following week. That’s a pretty clear indication that he will field his strongest side in that game with this weekend’s outing against Boland earmarked for a little more experimentation.

Sharing his thoughts with the Sharks website after the trial, Plum seemed to suggest that he hadn’t seen enough of the Raggies (or “possibles”) backs during Friday night’s trial, lamenting the lack of opportunities for those players. Of the 45 that were involved in the trial (or would have been involved had a power failure not curtailed the exercise) only 24 will be retained for the Boland game, assuming a return to action for the du Plessis brothers, Julian Redelinghuys and Marcell Coetzee.

Most of those names should be reasonably easy to predict, with the bulk of the youngsters falling back to the Vodacom Cup squad, but the trial match will have done much to crystallise Plumtree’s thinking in terms of the makeup of his likely starting 15, if not necessarily changing the makeup of the squad itself.

Running the rule over the positions, it’s probably safe to say that Dale Chadwick has the number 1 jersey properly sewn up, after a dominant scrumming display against admittedly junior opposition. The du Plessis brothers and Ross Skeate will be there too, with Plumtree still unable to separate his three (or make that four) candidates for the number 4 jersey. He specifically called out both Anton Bresler and Jandre Marais as having played well, while Pieter-Steph du Toit was perhaps the find of the trials, even played out of position at flank. Steven Sykes may even find himself on the sidelines for the time being, although much will still change. Jacques Botes gave the coach plenty to think about in that he probably showed up captain Keegan Daniel in terms of his play at open side, while the absence of Jean Deysel, Willem Alberts and Coetzee, coupled with a lacklustre showing from Ryan Kankowski, has left the loose forward combination wide open.

Don’t expect the backline named for that Kings game to differ much from the one that played in the white of the Zambezis on Friday, though – it sounds like Charl McLeod and Pat Lambie combined superbly, with Meyer Bosman and JP Pietersen also showing great promise as a centre pairing. Lwazi Mvovo was singled out for praise and it’s only really in the number 14 and 15 jerseys that some change might come as the coach ponders which two out of Louis Ludik, Odwa Ndungane, Riaan Viljoen and Sbura Sithole should wear those jerseys.

That Sharks, all-in-all, seem to be in a pretty good situation after the trial and in most cases, the selection conundrums are more along the lines of “who to leave out”.



48 Comments

  • Why must I live so damn far away! Would’ve loved to see that game!

  • Comment 1, posted at 06.02.12 11:18:34 by Die Kriek Reply
    Currie Cup player
     
  • Based on the various write ups, seems JPP is a possible long term solution in the previously problematic position of Outside Centre… I look forward to seeing what he can do, his distribution game will be tested, but I am sure he has the talent and tenacity to work on that and his work rate…

    I would like to see the following team for The Bulls:
    (based on available players)

    15. Ludik
    14. Odwa (experienced and always consistent)
    13. JPP
    12. Meyer Bosman
    11. Lwazi
    10. Pat
    9. Macleod
    8. Keegan Daniel
    7. Coetzee
    6. Botes (experienced and consistent)
    5. Skeate
    4. Sykes
    3. Jannie
    2. Bismarck
    1. Dale

    16. Burden
    17. Herbst
    18. Marais
    19. Bresler (utility forward)
    20. Steph-Du Toit (utility forward)
    21. Freddie (versatile)
    22. Viljoen (versatile)

    Deysel, Alberts will fight it out upon being fit – changes the dynamic quite somewhat…

  • Comment 2, posted at 06.02.12 11:24:55 by DarkDestroyer Reply
    DarkDestroyerVodacom Cup player
     
  • @DarkDestroyer (Comment 2) : Nice looking team but honestly I don’t see the point in have both Freddie and Viljoen on the bench. I’d risk Jordaan on the bench due to his greater versatility – he has to be exposed to SR at some point anyway. Let’s also not rule out Kankowski based on one trial match.

  • Comment 3, posted at 06.02.12 11:48:36 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    vanmartinTeam captain
     
  • I’ve noticed a few people worried about JP’s distribution. To be honest, i’d much rather have him there breaking the line on a regular basis than someone who cant, but can throw a good pass. I think it’s the ideal role for him, with Lambie and Bosman (good distributors)inside him it will create gaps simply because of the threat the back three and JPP at 13 pose.

  • Comment 4, posted at 06.02.12 11:51:25 by The Quirk Reply
    Author
    The QuirkVodacom Cup player
     
  • @DarkDestroyer (Comment 2) : Good team, as far as my knowledge goes, Alberts should be ready for that match. I think he should be our 8th, always preferred a power over pace at the back of the scrum

  • Comment 5, posted at 06.02.12 11:58:14 by Die Kriek Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • Kankowski should have been given a run behind the dominant pack.
    Plum did him no favours by playing him behind a pack that was retreating rapidly.

    Odwa is too slow now for a S15 quality winger. If I was an opposition winger I would love nothing more than to see Odwa’s name on the team sheet. Get Sithole or someone dangerous in there.

    Dark Destroyer, you’ve on ly got one out and out lineout forward there. We’d battle against the Bulls who dont mind the odd bit of kicking for territory.

  • Comment 6, posted at 06.02.12 12:05:59 by John Galt Reply

    John GaltCurrie Cup player
     
  • @John Galt (Comment 6) : It’s just such a pity that legs slow down when player gets older.

    Ideally we a Sithole or Mjekewu with Odwa’s brain out on the wing. Watching Odwa last Friday, I appreciated many things he does right esp in traffic to keep opponents honest for that precious second or so longer, making recycling that much easier.

    I agree tho, he no longer has the pace to pose the kind of threat we need out wide.

    Sithole and Mjekewu must be given a chance now. Maybe even Jordaan.

  • Comment 7, posted at 06.02.12 12:26:49 by beet Reply

    beetCurrie Cup player
     
  • Best line up for Bulls would be(If Deysel/Alberts are not fit, yet), my mind changes all the time ;-)
    1.Dale
    2.Bissie
    3.Jannie
    4.Sykes
    5.Skeate
    6.Botes
    7.Marcell
    8.Keegan
    9.Mcloed…upon hearing that he is passing the ball and not running with the ball…Fred doesn’t pass so well off the ground.
    10.Lambiele
    11.Mvovo
    12.Bosman…has def. gained some muscle mass over preseason…
    13.JPP
    14.Ndungane
    15. Viljoen…he does everything better than Louis, IMO…Louis is probably only better as a defensive fullback.
    16.Burden
    17.Herbst…has been training to be able to cover both sides since Beast got injured.
    18.Hargreaves
    19.Pieter Stef du toit
    20.Freddy
    21.Witkop
    22.Jordaan…Sithole misses out as we have lots of wing cover, Jordaan can play a similar role to that of Adi Jacobs this season, off the bench…Will be fighting for a Starting Berth in upcoming Currie Cup and next year.

  • Comment 8, posted at 06.02.12 12:34:05 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JJR (Comment 8) : This is probably not far off from what Plum would pick. My guess is that the only difference could be 15 and the bench for Witkop and Jordaan. Plum may also go for a 5/2 split on the bench?

  • Comment 9, posted at 06.02.12 12:48:00 by Viking Reply
    Author
    VikingCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Viking (Comment 9) : Indeed, he probably won’t exactly pick that lineup, i just would if i was coach. Either way we will still beat the Bulls ;-)

  • Comment 10, posted at 06.02.12 13:11:59 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JJR (Comment 10) : Good team but I still wouldn’t play Botes and Keegan in the same loose trio though….way too light.

  • Comment 11, posted at 06.02.12 13:51:39 by Pokkel Reply
    Author
    Team captain
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 11) : I also hate light loose trios; but Alberts/Deysel possibly out for 1st/2nd game, and Kankowski can’t really make much difference…yes heavier than Keegan and Botes; but it doesn’t make him more effective…aggression is what makes keegan cope being his weight. Simply Kankowski is off form, Marcell should be about 110kg after pre-season, so loose trio not too light.

    I would start Du toit at 7 for me if he had some more experience, and Stander and B.Groenewald also don’t have experience, yet.

    So would you put Kanko in there? Cos, i don’t think his heavier weight will make much difference…his BMI is the telling factor, he can’t use his weight fully because of his height. Like let deysel and hargreaves scrum each other…hargreaves 2kg heavier; but the BMI of Deysel will dominate hargreaves…Lower centre of gravity increases impact of the persons weight/mass, especially in rugby :smile:

  • Comment 12, posted at 06.02.12 14:08:09 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • I agree that JPP may not be as slick a distributor as some, but adds some very valuable and entirely sufficient skills at 13.

    However, even if he doesn’t stay at 13, I think his game as a whole will improve from this exposure. Especially in terms of work-rate, tackling and running lines, he will learn a good deal just from a few games there.

  • Comment 13, posted at 06.02.12 14:10:05 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishTeam captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 13) : I really hope he stays there, over the past few years, he has performed better when he gets more ball, and that will happen at 13. He is also very strong runner, plus a guy at 100kg+ that can step the Roses outta you…plus very good aggression. JPP at 13 is exciting, it seems thats what we all feeling excited with a New Bok coach, New Sharks youngsters coming in…i’m feeling the x-factor :smile: 2012 gonna rock!!

  • Comment 14, posted at 06.02.12 14:15:27 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JJR (Comment 14) :
    I’ve long been a fan of JP. One of the first names I would put on the team sheet. He has all you want from an outside back – pace, power, techniques, good hands, big boot, and composure.

    I feel he is often wasted by the Sharks and Boks, so this change may allow him more freedom and opportunity.

  • Comment 15, posted at 06.02.12 14:22:03 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishTeam captain
     
  • @The Quirk (Comment 4) : I like your understanding of the game. Agreed, if you have Lambie and Bosman at 10 and 12 respectively, all you need from your 13 is good ruÑning lines and explosiveness.

  • Comment 16, posted at 06.02.12 14:40:03 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • many ways to counter JPP’s lack of a distribution game, many lines and angles support runners can give to aid this, but if JPP is serious about becoming a world class centre he will need to learn how to distribute – to have the knowledge and skill adds much more to an already dangerous weapon – opposition are quick to lacth on to preceived weakness, and this rings true for any player, keeping building on your game… Same can be said for Deysel and Alberts, now you are getting players who are faster, better skilled, and more involved at breakdowns – higher workrate with similar dimensions – keeping adding to your game. As for my team selection, our lineouts were a shambles last season with more than one specialist lock, so thus; my keywords or theme is adaption and evolution, do not limit your game, each player in the lineout should be a go to option… Adapt your game…

  • Comment 17, posted at 06.02.12 15:27:31 by DarkDestroyer Reply

    DarkDestroyerVodacom Cup player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 3) : I’m never going to rule out Kanko, class is permanent – I also am really looking forward to see what Jordaan can bring to the table, but my strategy is more horses for courses and against The Bulls, for me this team feels more balanced… Also Viljoen has a big boot and is adept at more than one position in case of emergency. Freddie obviously doubles up as backup 9 and 10. But merely opinion if course, we all have a fair insight into the game.

  • Comment 18, posted at 06.02.12 15:31:19 by DarkDestroyer Reply

    DarkDestroyerVodacom Cup player
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 16) : exactly…. otherwise if everyone is just distributing, we get the ball to the wings when they’re still miles behind the advantage line :)

  • Comment 19, posted at 06.02.12 15:33:26 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Man the guys on rugby365 are noobs!! No point in explaining why…the Bloggers there give no backup to their comments, makes me sick to read it. :evil:

    My Random statement of the day :)

  • Comment 20, posted at 06.02.12 17:47:51 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • Okay I get that JP was a revelation at 13.
    My question is : Are we gonna stick with Odwa at 14?
    Surely a guy like Ludik offers a lot more pace plus he`s got fullback qualities as well.
    Viljoen will definately start at 15, give Ludik a run at 14 I say.

  • Comment 21, posted at 06.02.12 17:49:25 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 21) : it kills me to agree with you as I simply love Odwa he is so reliable and a real worker, but his pace is seriously lacking now.

  • Comment 22, posted at 06.02.12 18:09:02 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's DudetteSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 22) : I`m with you there. Odwa has been one of my favourite sharks for a long time now, but sentiment goes out the window when we chase our first ever super 15 success.

  • Comment 23, posted at 06.02.12 18:31:02 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • I think if we’re going to turf Odwa on the grounds of lack of pace (not saying I necessarily disagree, in fact, I’ve been in favour of a move to 15 for some years) then we should not be too quick (eheehee) to replace him with a guy who had a serious knee injury and lacks pace himself as a result.

    In other words, it’s time to be brave and back Sbura on that right wing. Let Louis and Riaan fight it out over the 15 jersey (I give it to Louis based on the fact that he’s done NOTHING to warrant losing it)

  • Comment 24, posted at 06.02.12 18:44:34 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @Original Pierre (Comment 21) : Sithole/Jordaan…Jordaan/Sithole…look no further…you don’t need 2 fullbacks on the field…Louis has some good pace; but can’t really step and lacks flair….Jordaan and Sithole are both faster and they have tons of flair…i would back one of those 2 for sure. What has Louis ever givin us on attack? Sithole played a short while in CC and made and big impact and we yet to see jordaan, who is even faster than Sithole according to me and according to the SA Sevens :smile:

  • Comment 25, posted at 06.02.12 19:00:26 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • 15. Viljoen
    14. Odwa
    13. JPP -Not sure still.
    12. Meyer Bosman
    11. Mvovo
    10. Lambie
    9. Mcleod
    8. Keegan Daniel (c)
    7. Coetzee
    6. Botes
    5. Skeate
    4. Sykes
    3. Jannie
    2. Bismarck
    1. Dale

    16. Burden
    17. Herbst
    18. Marais
    19. Steph-Du Toit
    20. Zeilinga /Sithole
    21. Fredi M
    22. Jordaan

    I would like to see more from Zeilinga ! Also provides us with a decent place kicker .

    Also it may be wise to perhaps have two props on the bench .

  • Comment 26, posted at 06.02.12 19:12:06 by Talent Reply
    Author
    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 24) : totally agree with you! and add Odwa to the battle of the fbs he looked good there when they put him there.

  • Comment 27, posted at 06.02.12 19:12:39 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's DudetteSuper Rugby player
     
  • Changes ;

    15. Viljoen
    14. Jordaan
    13. JPP -Not sure still.
    12. Meyer Bosman
    11. Mvovo
    10. Lambie
    9. Zeilinga
    8. Coetzee
    7. Steph-Du Toit
    6. Keegan Daniel (c)
    5. Marais
    4. Sykes
    3. Jannie
    2. Burden
    1. Dale

    16.
    17. Herbst
    18.
    19.
    20. /Sithole
    21. Fredi M
    22.

  • Comment 28, posted at 06.02.12 19:15:37 by Talent Reply
    Author
    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 24) : Would be interesting to know who has the most pace amongst our backs? I`m sure Mvovo will out pace all of them.

    Sbura might be quicker than Ludik but I don`t trust his defense.
    Our defense is suspect enough already, I would not risk Sbura in super rugby just yet.

    I`m sure Viljoen will be a shoe in at 15 so the only place Ludik can realistic compete for a place in the starting line-up is wing or center. With JP at 13 the logical choice for him is on the wing.

    Odwa would be a good bench option. Can cover fullback and wing or just move Ludik back to fullback of something should happen to Viljoen.

    Best Possible backline :

    McLeod
    Fred
    Mvovo
    Lambie
    JP
    Ludik
    Viljoen

    Backline John Plumtree will select:

    McLeod
    Lambie
    Mvovo
    Bosman
    Hopefully JP
    Odwa
    Viljoen

  • Comment 29, posted at 06.02.12 19:15:41 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 29) : Jordaan reeled in Dan Nortan in the sevens series, and he is known as the fastest on the world series…jordaan reeled him easily…i was shocked, and that was almost a year ago now…i really wonder what his 100m time is…i know his 40 metre time must be seriously fast.

  • Comment 30, posted at 06.02.12 19:35:00 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JJR (Comment 30) : Good to know, maybe he can solve our 14 problem!

  • Comment 31, posted at 06.02.12 19:42:12 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • Ndungane is better than Louis at 15 people…everytime he has played there he has been great coming into the line, and his handoff comes into play, running from fullback…he’s hiding that handoff from us on the wing, i want to see more :smile:

  • Comment 32, posted at 06.02.12 19:42:18 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 31) : Ha Ha, is that sarcasm? I really don’t think we have any problems in the wings department :smile:

  • Comment 33, posted at 06.02.12 19:43:45 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 29) : I don’t agree with Fred at 10, and I’d not select odwa, I like him but its time for speed…..

  • Comment 34, posted at 06.02.12 19:47:39 by Franshark Reply
    Author
    FransharkTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 24) : agree, let Louis and Viljoen fight it out for the fullback position. I’m an big Odwa fan, he is reliable but needs to mentor Sithole and Mjekevu seeing that one of them is going to take over from him next year.

  • Comment 35, posted at 06.02.12 21:13:42 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 29) :
    JPP was 2nd quickest at the Boks along with Spies a few years back. Only guy faster was Habana at his prime.

    As far as I heard, Sithole’s PB 100m is same as Habana’s was – around 10.4. I would be very surprised if anybody else in world rugby is that quick.

  • Comment 36, posted at 06.02.12 23:40:20 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishTeam captain
     
  • May I claim the honor of calling the JPP at centre on this site before anyone else thought about it? :cool: :cool: :cool:

    Way cool! The next line is borrowed: Sometimes I myself think I am overrated, but not today!

  • Comment 37, posted at 07.02.12 06:02:44 by Silver Fox Reply

    Silver FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • I don’t have a problem with the backline players at the Sharks, there is serious talent there. I still wonder if HRH and Bashford have actually learnt how to coach in the off season. No point in having great players when the coaches are clueless. My only backline concern is whether Charl will serve up the same shit he did last year. If he does, then it doesn’t matter how good the players outside him are.

    My take on the forward pack is, Du Plessis discipline. If they can keep their heads they won’t drag the team down with them. Hopefully though the forwards will get more assistance from the backline this season. This will require the backline holding onto the ball and not kicking it away cheaply.

  • Comment 38, posted at 07.02.12 07:31:53 by waje Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @waje (Comment 38) : HRH? :shock:

    We have royalty coaching at the Sharks? :wink:

  • Comment 39, posted at 07.02.12 07:45:51 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 39) :

    Hahaha!

  • Comment 40, posted at 07.02.12 07:48:43 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • A successful season will require:
    A creative backline
    Du Plessis’ brothers keeping their cool
    Charl getting dropped as soon as he loses form
    More attack less defending will keep the players fresher.
    Ryan and Keegan getting involved more at the breakdown
    Player rotation
    But all the above can be in place and it can all fall apart with the biggest factor, referees.

    As much as the IRB has tried to simplify the laws for the referees, the referees are still playing too much of a part in deciding the winner. The last decade has seen a big dip in the quality of referees officiating. A look at the shocking decisions being made in the Aviva and Heineken has left me concerned about what we will see in the Super Tournament. And we all saw how easy a tournament can be fixed by putting the right referee in the right games. Paddy O’Brien made it easy for his home nation to win, by picking the right guys to officiate against the biggest threats.

  • Comment 41, posted at 07.02.12 07:52:28 by waje Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 39) : Yup, he thinks so.

  • Comment 42, posted at 07.02.12 07:53:26 by waje Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @waje (Comment 42) : Who? Hugh Reece-Hedwards? :)

  • Comment 43, posted at 07.02.12 08:05:19 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 43) : Yup. The one and only. Coach above all coaches.

    However I have yet to see any decent results when he coaches the Sharks.

  • Comment 44, posted at 07.02.12 08:08:48 by waje Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @Franshark (Comment 34) : I get your misgivings about Fred at 10, but I have far greater concerns at 12, that`s why I want to move our best player there. Fred at 10 gives away a lot less than our current first choice at 12.

  • Comment 45, posted at 07.02.12 09:16:51 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 45) : Fred is not the sharks future, may not even finish the S15 with us, and to give Lambi the best chance to become the next Bok 10… No Lambi at 10 for me.
    If Mcloed have a better year at 9, Lambi will at 10, and JP can do it for us at 13, then MB will come to his best at 12, and we could then even start using youngsters there…

  • Comment 46, posted at 07.02.12 09:31:19 by Franshark Reply
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    FransharkTeam captain
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 45) : but I do understand your way of thinking.. 12 is a specialized position

  • Comment 47, posted at 07.02.12 09:35:19 by Franshark Reply
    Author
    FransharkTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 24) : I see Odwa as an option at 15 and 13 since he has lost a tiny bit of pace but is still quick enough for top-flight rugby!

  • Comment 48, posted at 07.02.12 10:10:08 by ChrisS Reply
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    ChrisSCurrie Cup player
     

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