Richard Ferguson

Western Province lift the Cup


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks, WP on 27 Oct 2012 at 18:47
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , ,

Western Province, after an eleven year drought, have lifted the Currie Cup by beating the Sharks 25 – 18 in the final at Mr Price Kings Park, matching the Sharks evenly throughout the match and doing the basics well when it counted, with their pivot Demetri Catrakilis playing the game of his life and kicking his team to victory.

The scoreline might have been close, but the Sharks never looked in the match in the second half, losing countless lineouts and being put under extreme pressure throughout. Western Province are deserved winners of the Cup, due reward for coach Allister Coetzee who has led this team to many playoffs, and finally getting a Cup in the cupboard.

Western Province were first to put points on the board, with the Sharks penalised for going offside at the breakdown, and Catrakilis slotting from 40m out. The Sharks, through Pat Lambie, equalised seconds later, when Western Province were penalised for obstruction.

After a busy first ten minutes, in which the Sharks had all the territory and possession, WP were again penalised and Pat Lambie put the Sharks into the lead for the first time in the match. At this point, Bryan Habana was substituted after what looked like a knee injury, with Joe Pietersen replacing him as early as the 13th minute.

Western Province finally got some ball in hand, but a loopy pass was intercepted by JP Pietersen, who booted it through and the Sharks forced another penalty for Lambie to stroke through the poles, for a 6 point lead after 17 minutes.

The game took a bit of a lull, with neither team taking the game by the scruff of the neck, but a scrum penalty for the Sharks after 27 minutes put the men in black and white further in the lead with Pat Lambie showing some very good kicking form.

The pressure was firmly on Province, who declined a kick at goal immediately after the Sharks scored, opting to take the lineout, which Catrakilis kicked out off the side of the boot, three points thrown away in a tight game. Five minutes later, Province again won a penalty, this time for a dangerous tackle by Jannie du Plessis, which Joe Pietersen put over to double their score and bring the deficit down to only 6.

A beautiful move from Western Province from set piece off a scrum led to Juan de Jongh carving up the Sharks midfield, scoring a great try under the posts, which converted, put WP back in the lead by a single point.

Demetri Catrakilis put Western Province even further ahead at half time, as the Sharks were all offside trying to charge down an attempted drop kick, which led to a half time score of 12 – 16 to Western Province.

The second half started much like the first did, with the Sharks getting most of the ball and possession, and were the first to put points on the board, reducing the deficit to a single point through the boot of Pat Lambie.

The Sharks kept possession and remained inside the WP 22m, making Province defend for long periods at a time without getting over the whitewash for that all-important five pointer. The lineouts let the Sharks down, at crucial times Eben Etzebeth was prominent and took Sharks ball. Eventually the Sharks got the penalty and Lambie duly put the Sharks back in the lead with 24 minutes to play.

The Sharks bench was unused for the first 60 minutes of the match, produced Wiehahn Herbst (on for Jannie du Plessis) and Meyer Bosman (on for Tim Whitehead) to bring on some fresh legs in a time where WP were putting a lot of pressure on the Sharks. Shortly after this Kyle Cooper and Jean Deysel were introduced for Craig Burden and Willem Alberts.

The pressure from WP was soon turned into points with the Sharks going offside in defending their line – Demetri Catrakilis scoring WP’s first points of the second half and taking the lead again. This prompted John Plumtree in to another substitution, with Charl McLeod on for Cobus Reinach with 16 minutes to play.

Western Province were on the attack immediately thanks to the Sharks kicking aimlessly, and got a further three points on the board through a drop goal from Demetri Catrakilis, stretching the lead to four points.

The Sharks’ indiscretions kept costing them possession, and more importantly, allowed the Province kickers another shot at goal, with Joe Pietersen taking the 40m shot and putting it short – a relief for every Shark supporter in the crowd. The Province pressure did not stop, and with 4 minutes to play, Catrakilis slotted another dropgoal, this time off his left boot, to put Province 7 points ahead and the Sharks very close to out of this clash.

The Sharks threw everything and the proverbial kitchen sink at the Province defence, but could not make the necessary ground, and with the basics eluding the Sharks when it counted most, Western Province held on for a deserved victory.

The Sharks will have to go back to their basics and build on what has been a good season for them, reaching two finals, and even though they lost both finals, did us as supporters proud.

Scorers:
Sharks:
Tries:
Conversions:
Penalties: Pat Lambie (6 from 6)

Western Province:
Tries: Juan de Jongh
Conversions: Demetri Catrakilis (1 from 1)
Penalties: Demetri Catrakilis (3 from 3), Joe Pietersen (1 from 2)
Drop kick: Demetri Catrakilis (2 from 2)



102 Comments

  • Well Done Province!

    Came out and showed us how to play finals rugby.

    Well deserved!

  • Comment 1, posted at 27.10.12 18:54:31 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • Congrats WP. The hungrier team lifted the cup in the end

  • Comment 2, posted at 27.10.12 18:59:52 by Die Kriek Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • Play wp without fetchers is suicide.

    Plum made late changes. The hungrier team really won.

    Marais and Deysel should have started this game.

    Etzebeth, Fourie and Catrakilis killed us today.

  • Comment 3, posted at 27.10.12 19:05:20 by lsotjf Reply

     
  • 12 turnovers. Yes 12 turnovers. Thats not counting lineouts. It makes a difference having deon fourie in your team than marcel coetzee. Substance always trumps flash. Really outstanding by fourie. Watch the 1st 20mins and the last 20mins. Lucky flo left otherwise this would have got really messy.

  • Comment 4, posted at 27.10.12 19:07:45 by cody007 Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • Congrats Province Well Done.

  • Comment 5, posted at 27.10.12 19:08:34 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • I’ll say it again…Willem Alberts is SH1T !!! only good when his pack is dominant

    Yes I know many of you will be shocked by this and your reply will go something like this…
    ‘But he was huge on defense and put in some big hits, carried the ball well etc etc…’

    Fact is he never made more than 3m over the advantage line at any single time, never made any turnovers, and never made any offloads – the end result is nothing…I repeat NOTHING.

    Deysel has been working on offloads and his offload at the death nearly won the game for us!!!

  • Comment 6, posted at 27.10.12 19:08:51 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 22) : and THAT is why I still don’t think Plumtree has it 100% right.
    His scores IMO.
    Coaching 80%
    Selection 90% (up from 45% early in the S15)
    Mental prep of the team 10% (failing grade)

    Need I say anymore? :evil:

  • Comment 7, posted at 27.10.12 19:09:21 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @lsotjf (Comment 3) : BOET you and I see things in the same light.
    I agree with every single one of your comments…Alberts was hard but innefective!!!

  • Comment 8, posted at 27.10.12 19:11:48 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • Difference between winning and losing – 2 tackles and 6 lineouts…..

    Dejongs try was covered by 2 defenders … Our fullback should have drawn his man and forced the tackle …

    We need a lineout coach who can teach our hookers/locks how its done

  • Comment 9, posted at 27.10.12 19:18:09 by byron Reply

    byronVodacom Cup player
     
  • Deon Fourie had an immense game. Sharks were ponderous and predictable when in the stroke zone – slowing the game down when we should have speeded it up.

  • Comment 10, posted at 27.10.12 19:18:20 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringSuper Rugby player
     
  • Well done WP!

  • Comment 11, posted at 27.10.12 19:18:45 by Pokkel Reply
    Author
    Team captain
     
  • @ pienaar111 (comment 8): Deysel has done a monster no-injury season and was the best fetcher we’ve had so far.
    Alberts is a good ball carrier, but when he has space. A tired Alberts is kind of useless.

  • Comment 12, posted at 27.10.12 19:18:49 by lsotjf Reply

     
  • @lsotjf (Comment 12) : How did you manage to quote Megatron on this thread?

  • Comment 13, posted at 27.10.12 19:21:27 by rhineshark Reply

    Spirit of RugbySuper Rugby player
     
  • @byron(comment 9): we did exactly what wp wanted. Ball at the front. Etzebeth won almost it all. Poor decisions all day long.

  • Comment 14, posted at 27.10.12 19:21:35 by lsotjf Reply

     
  • whats the use of making big tackles when it just results in the attacking team starting again. U need turnovers. How many turnovers did our forwards win? The backs made 2 turnovers which was 2 more than our forwards. Deysel was our specialist in that area until plum told him that marcel is better him. Similar to the stunt plum pulled with adi and marius. Sharks will never win the s15 with that fool in charge.

  • Comment 15, posted at 27.10.12 19:23:48 by cody007 Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • Unfortunately the sharks flattered to decieve yet again, they somehow are always found wanting when it really counts…must admit I have to agree on the alberts issue I was screaming for plum to make the change in the first half already but our biggest bugbear must have been our lineouts…how could we get it so wrong soooo often…

  • Comment 16, posted at 27.10.12 19:28:47 by SharkED Reply

    SharkEDUnder 21 player
     
  • alot of comment here about alberts and deysel. But what about coetzee? Do we really need the ‘running like mad, always on screen, but doing nothing substantial’ kind of player?

  • Comment 17, posted at 27.10.12 19:37:40 by cody007 Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • Cue the sackloth and ashes brigade… :roll:

  • Comment 18, posted at 27.10.12 19:46:54 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
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  • Biggest choke of 2012. Not even the proteas is this shit

  • Comment 19, posted at 27.10.12 19:48:47 by SharksRTB Reply

    SharksRTBCurrie Cup player
     
  • Rob… please dint even bother rating them on monday.

  • Comment 20, posted at 27.10.12 19:50:37 by SharksRTB Reply

    SharksRTBCurrie Cup player
     
  • Hard luck sharkies

    Congrats Province

  • Comment 21, posted at 27.10.12 19:57:05 by Zibbie Reply
    Competition Winner
    ZibbieCurrie Cup player
     
  • I know people will be saying we are to harsh and we made it this far and so on…

    But we all want a championship team, don’t we?? Then we need a better coach and that is that.
    - 3 successive finals defeats.

    This is a team that has always promised greatness and then faltered at the final hurdle and then gone into a sort of ‘mini-remission’ – only for the cycle to repeat itself again and again and again…

    I have never been a fan of Plums selections. Selections determine tactics…and just as Heyneke Meyer has learnt this year (i sincerely hope) ANY GREAT TEAM HAS A QUALITY FETCHER!!!

  • Comment 22, posted at 27.10.12 20:07:06 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • Great game, great final. Well done to the province folk. Commiserations to the sharks.

  • Comment 23, posted at 27.10.12 20:26:10 by Worcestershire Sauce Reply
    Author
    Worcestershire SauceCurrie Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 8) : Dude that was his 1st ever comment on the site? :???: :razz:

  • Comment 24, posted at 27.10.12 20:38:55 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 24) : WOW….
    U realize he made many statements in that ’1 comment’…you knew what I meant so stop nitpicking

  • Comment 25, posted at 28.10.12 03:08:14 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • I feel most gutted for guys like Ludik and Lambie, this game really hurt their chances at making the Springbok starting 15, in Ludik’s case he’ll be lucky to make the squad today.

    And Keegan’s record as captain for finals is 3 and 0.

    It’s that same bug of the beginning of the 2012 SR season that’s once again come back to haunt us – lineouts, we simply killed ourselves.

    And lastly, we played to “not lose”, that’s the pressure of being the favorite.

  • Comment 26, posted at 28.10.12 06:17:54 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • The Currie Cup has really become the tournament of the underdog over the past three years.

    2010 – A very green Sharks team had to beat a star studded Bulls and WP team to lift the cup.

    2011 – Same for the Lions having to beat star studded teams

    2012 – Not to the exact same extent as the above, but yet again the stars faltered and the dog got the spoils ;-)

    Probably why CC success does not translate into SR success.

  • Comment 27, posted at 28.10.12 06:33:10 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • Well done to AC and the boys! Great win away from home. Now on to the EOY tour!

  • Comment 28, posted at 28.10.12 07:18:38 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • Tough luck boys and girls, the best team of the season is not always the best team on the day – finals can be cruel.

  • Comment 29, posted at 28.10.12 07:27:30 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • Any ideas what time the Bok squad is to be announced?

  • Comment 30, posted at 28.10.12 07:29:26 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Well done to the Province players, coaching staff and supporters! Given how many dodgy calls by the referee favoured the Sharks, that was quite a comprehensive victory!

    I must also say, I’ve been quite vocal all year long in my criticism of Juan de Jongh, but that try of his was simply sublime. Looks like I’ll be eating humble pie for a while yet.

  • Comment 31, posted at 28.10.12 07:34:15 by Culling Song Reply
    Author
    Culling SongCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 31) : ag dont beat yourself up, for some it takes longer to see quality when it’s not wrapped in 1,90m 105kg paper…you’re in good company as heyneke meyer also thinks a lions fullback is a better 13 than juan.

  • Comment 32, posted at 28.10.12 07:39:08 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 32) : @Culling Song (Comment 31) : But that stupid celebration dance of his :roll: :twisted:

  • Comment 33, posted at 28.10.12 08:13:26 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 31) : I’m glad someone else saw that as well. Peyper cocked up so many calls that helped the Sharks and yet we still lost :(

    I’d like to know why the sharks reverted to letting the big guys take crashballs all the time rather than using the backs that have been so successful in the last weeks. :(

  • Comment 34, posted at 28.10.12 08:19:32 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • The Sharks were lucky that “elendige” dude was on the field and not Brache. De Allende died with the ball almost everytime where Brache would have been much more damaging.

  • Comment 35, posted at 28.10.12 08:22:22 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • The Sharks started to panic the moment their lineouts became a disaster! Mentally the Sharks were worried about the ball going out and as a result the rest of their game went to shite! Its as simple as that! When our lineout worked in the first few minutes WP couldnt live with the Sharks! The latter stages also showed how weak our scrum is without all 3 of the Bok front row there! Quality prop depth and lineout jumpers are needed Mr Stauli…and dont tell me we have youngsters coming through as our junior sides get hammered at scrum and lineout time against the bigger teams! And please dont sign more backline players- the backline is good just let them be and gel!

  • Comment 36, posted at 28.10.12 08:24:36 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 34) : It might be part of the whole choking scenario, they panicked – tried to play it safe or something to that effect.

    It was as painful as watching the Springboks play. Same brain dead game plan. :roll:

  • Comment 37, posted at 28.10.12 08:25:05 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • I @KSA Shark © (Comment 34) : plum reverted back to what worked so well in 2010′s final… he did not stick to what worked so well in 2012. Even last week against the bulls.. the weather was shittier than yesterday, but we played our game that got us there. Why he deviated frkm that game is a mystery. … but then again, why did he play beast, sykes, and alberts! All 3 of them shouldve played of the bench. Sorry, but i’m blaming this one firmly on the coaches…. again…

  • Comment 38, posted at 28.10.12 08:40:28 by SharksRTB Reply

    SharksRTBCurrie Cup player
     
  • There is some irony here.

    I have accused the Stormers many times of playing the game with a mindset of ‘not to lose’ instead of ‘playing to win’.

    The Sharks ended up doing exactly that yesterday.

  • Comment 39, posted at 28.10.12 08:43:53 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @SharksRTB (Comment 38) : with quality players like that in a squad and being the dominating union the last couple of tournaments, its really dissapointing not winning any trophys…. weare seriously wasting our opportunities for silverware.

  • Comment 40, posted at 28.10.12 08:45:18 by SharksRTB Reply

    SharksRTBCurrie Cup player
     
  • All Blacks are the only team that can (sometimes) win despite having a terrible line-out.

    If you can’t secure ball off set-phases, you’re in trouble.

    PROVINCE!!!

  • Comment 41, posted at 28.10.12 08:51:40 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 32) : Not beating myself up, just acknowledging where I was wrong in my assessment of a player.

    @FireTheLooser (Comment 33) : I may have been wrong in my assessment of his talent, but that celebration dance (which I assume he’s learnt from Digby Iaone) means he will stay on my “least like people” list, sandwiched between Beyonce and Bon Jovi.

    @SharksRTB (Comment 38) : I disagree, the problems wasn’t starting with Sykes, Alberts or Beast, it was starting with Burden ahead of Cooper. I imagine that selection was aimed at righting the line out woes of last week, and we all saw how well that worked out… :roll: I think Burden is a great player with tons of X-factor, but he can’t match Cooper for work rate and mongrel in tight situations

    @KSA Shark © (Comment 35) : Apparently that “ellendige” dude is my wife’s cousin’s son… So I really did not have much to be proud of yesterday!

  • Comment 42, posted at 28.10.12 08:59:57 by Culling Song Reply
    Author
    Culling SongCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 41) : Say What??

    I could have sworn we had just as bad a lineout last week.

    I could have sworn we won last week.

  • Comment 43, posted at 28.10.12 09:59:16 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 42) : :razz: Eish! You can’t pick your family hey. :)

  • Comment 44, posted at 28.10.12 10:00:17 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 39) :
    Hoping to get some time for an article, but for me this was the main reason for the loss.

    A lack of composure under defensive and attacking pressure and a lack of continuity in the hooking department were also big factors.

    Just a reminder to the fans; neither Cooper nor Burden were available to train up to about 2 weeks ago.

  • Comment 45, posted at 28.10.12 11:03:47 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishTeam captain
     
  • eben schooled bresler….eish.

  • Comment 46, posted at 28.10.12 11:32:50 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 46) :
    i think bresler and eben would make a really good lock partnership for the boks. hopefully meyer doesnt look too much into that final

  • Comment 47, posted at 28.10.12 11:59:58 by HORSEFLY Reply

    HORSEFLYUnder 19 player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 46) :
    I don’t think it was just a lock issue.

    In any event, I really rate Bresler for his defence and workrate. He’s come along nicely.

  • Comment 48, posted at 28.10.12 12:17:18 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishTeam captain
     
  • Some of our normal forward stalwarts completey disappeared yesterday. Alberts, Coetzee, Daniel and Bresler were nowhere near as effective as usual.

    This put Reinach under pressure and we never looked like creating any kind of back attacking platform.

    The only place, where we gained ascendancy as the match progressed, was the scrum. Then Plum subbed Jannie and we lost two tightheads in short succession, which meant we were then crap at lineouts AND scrums.

    You can´t win games like that, let alone finals.

    WP´s youngsters deserve praise for how well they coped with the occassion and how well they stuck to their guns, even after losing an in-form Habana quite early on.

  • Comment 49, posted at 28.10.12 12:20:19 by rhineshark Reply

    Spirit of RugbySuper Rugby player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 46) : Um how exactly ? Alberts competed directly with him in the front of the line out.

    It wasn’t pleasant .I got the feeling that this may happen .Underdog tag goes along way.

    If anything this emphasized what we need to work on.

    I agree about Alberts ,he is a marked man .

  • Comment 50, posted at 28.10.12 12:20:58 by Talent Reply
    Author
    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • Our attitude on defense was poor ,in contrast to wp`s attitude

  • Comment 51, posted at 28.10.12 12:23:12 by Talent Reply
    Author
    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Talent (Comment 50) :
    deysel should have started in any case. his offloading ability in the tackle has improved massively and most of the time creates space and an opportunity for his teammates, he can also do the things that alberts does but the difference is that he gains a bit more ground then alberts

  • Comment 52, posted at 28.10.12 12:51:54 by HORSEFLY Reply

    HORSEFLYUnder 19 player
     
  • For me…the sharks lost,..because they played like the boks played against the all blacks

  • Comment 53, posted at 28.10.12 13:10:38 by sharktooth Reply

    sharktoothUnder 19 player
     
  • hi guys, how do you put a pic in? :oops:

  • Comment 54, posted at 28.10.12 13:17:44 by HORSEFLY Reply

    HORSEFLYUnder 19 player
     
  • @HORSEFLY (Comment 54) : click on your nic where it says “logged in as HORSEFLY”

    the scroll down & you’ll find where to upload ur avatar

  • Comment 55, posted at 28.10.12 13:47:01 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Talent (Comment 50) : @Talent (Comment 50) : who calls the sharks lineout, alberts or bresler?

  • Comment 56, posted at 28.10.12 13:48:02 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • let’s see if meyer will pick burden after the mare he had yesterday…

  • Comment 57, posted at 28.10.12 13:48:55 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • OMW Heyneke meyer what is wrong with you????
    arno botha ahead of keegan daniel and juandre kruger ahead of anton bresler????
    if i remember correct these two showed they were better than the two bulls

  • Comment 58, posted at 28.10.12 14:06:43 by HORSEFLY Reply

    HORSEFLYUnder 19 player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 56) : Neither, they let the opposition locks call it for them.

  • Comment 59, posted at 28.10.12 14:10:50 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 57) : Interesting how you posted that 2minutes after the squad was announced without Burden in it. :lol:
    The Hookers are
    Ralepelle
    Strauss
    Flits Brits

  • Comment 60, posted at 28.10.12 14:16:23 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 60) : 2 min BEFORE…look there’s no liebenberg either who was in front of burden.

  • Comment 61, posted at 28.10.12 14:19:31 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 61) :

    Springbok squad of 31 announced for tour
    28 October 2012, 13:46

    Your comment:
    Comment 57, posted at 28.10.12 13:48:55 by Megatron

  • Comment 62, posted at 28.10.12 14:31:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 61) : Liebenberg and Du Plessis were not considered due to injury.

  • Comment 63, posted at 28.10.12 14:32:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 29) : especially when your team lacks the BMT to play in the big games.

  • Comment 64, posted at 28.10.12 16:24:09 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld SupporterCompetition Winner
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  • @lostfish (Comment 64) :

    Personally ‘BMT’ is an overstated phrase as bad as the dreaded ‘X-factor’ one!

    I stick to my first post, finals are cruel, just ask the All Blacks. WP was the best team on the day, Sharks were the best team throughout 2012, if you want to be pissed off at your team because of that then fair play, I just think we miss the context at times.

  • Comment 65, posted at 28.10.12 18:27:10 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 65) :
    Agree. Getting wise in your old age. ;-)

  • Comment 66, posted at 28.10.12 18:56:52 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishTeam captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 66) :

    Haha, jou gat man!

  • Comment 67, posted at 28.10.12 18:58:10 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • funny how bmt is dismissed but mental coaches are touted…

  • Comment 68, posted at 28.10.12 19:09:12 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 68) :

    Surely you are smarter than this Trans?

    As a Kings supporter I would have thought that context is something that should come naturally to you.

  • Comment 69, posted at 28.10.12 19:26:30 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 65) : Finals are cruel but the Sharks in their last 3 finals have fallen apart and let the occasion get the better of them. The leadership within the team also has a big part to play as Daniel cant seem to rally the troops when the going gets tough.

    All credit to Province though, they came to play and play they did. Even with the ref helping them the Sharks couldn’t get going.

  • Comment 70, posted at 28.10.12 19:31:58 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld SupporterCompetition Winner
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  • @Morné (Comment 69) : forget my supposed intellectual capacity for a sec. the sharks have been in three final & lost all three. a case of lacking big match temperament can be made – especially the 2 currie cup losses.

  • Comment 71, posted at 28.10.12 20:05:07 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 65) : :shock: 5 or 6 good games at the end of the SR season and a good CC season does NOT justify calling them the best team IMO.

  • Comment 72, posted at 28.10.12 20:28:13 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • if you want to be pissed off at your team because of that then fair play, I just think we miss the context at times.

    The context I see it in is that we don’t have the brains to realise that we need to actually pitch up for the games that are considered easy.

    Very few if any of us get pissed off with the team when we lose the tough games, but then losing the piss easy ones and making their OWN lives difficult by having to travel (insert any one of the exagerated figures bandied about over the last 4 month in here) kilometers and expect sympathy and/or praise for actually making the final??? BULL SHIT!!!!

    If they had their heads screwed on properly and their priorities sorted out then they wouldn’t have been in such a difficult position.

    They screw themselves and then expect comiseration or sympathy from us. FUCK ‘EM

  • Comment 73, posted at 28.10.12 20:33:04 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 68) : I find that strange as well. If they don’t have BMT a mind coach will help them get it. :(

    The Sharks don’t have Small MT in my opinion. It’s always the supposed walkovers that we lose and then teams get given the bogey tag. Strange how WP and the Bulls aren’t Bogey teams for us but The Lions, Griquas and Cheetahs are.

  • Comment 74, posted at 28.10.12 20:36:20 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 74) : wp “earned” the underdog tag and thus slipped under the sharks radar of danger :lol:

  • Comment 75, posted at 28.10.12 20:58:09 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 75) : The Sharks would lose to 15 blue and white striped drums purely because it would be a game that they “couldn’t” lose.

  • Comment 76, posted at 28.10.12 21:09:25 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 75) : The Sharks would lose to 15 blue and white striped drums purely because it would be a game that they “couldn’t” lose.

  • Comment 77, posted at 28.10.12 21:09:41 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Megatron

    Thanks bru. Truth be told I didn’t give my team much of a chance considering the Sharks had beaten us the previous 4 times, had the stronger team and home ground advantage.

    With regards to Morne’s comment about the Sharks being the best team in 2012, I also disagree. WP/Stormers have won the Vodacom Cup, Currie Cup, U19 title and SR Conference Champs. :wink:

  • Comment 78, posted at 28.10.12 21:26:18 by wpw Reply
    Administrator
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 77) : ja bru “best team in 2012″ surely would be 12 wins out of 14 but hey…

  • Comment 79, posted at 28.10.12 21:35:03 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 74) : @Megatron (Comment 75) :

    When one refers to BMT or the temperament to win the big games it is not just something that ‘kicks in’ when so-called big games are played. It is a temperament that either exist or does not.

    A mind coach does not coach teams to win big games, a mind coach helps players appreciate and understand their individual states throughout their job/season as a whole.

    Understand one thing – the fact that the Sharks (or any other team) needs a mind coach is not in question, but to suggest a mind coach would be able to change the outcome of 80 minutes in context of close to/more than 1000 minutes of rugby played in 1 competition (not a full season of 3 different competitions) is just absurd.

    You talk about mind coaches like they weave a magic wand, where the truth is that they need as much work with a player, and a team, as your traditional forwards/backline/attack/defence coach.

    ‘Tags’ earned by teams in pre-game predictions is nothing more than selling newspapers and opinion as fact to gullible readers.

    If you want to define temperament, define it over an era, or at least a season, not a single match.

    If the Sharks capitalised on 1 of the 3 try-scoring opportunities they had yesterday which was defined by one tackle, one pass and one non-pass, the issue of ‘BMT’ would never have been discussed today.

    You accuse a team of not having temperament for the big occasion because of one single decision made by one single player that had the wrong result?

    If Ludik dummied and went on his own the Sharks would have sipped out of that cup last night. If Daniel used the right technique and did not fall off De Jongh for his try the result would have been different. Both (Sharks) players all of you still want in the Bok setup.

    Those were mistakes made in the moment, in a second, but yet it defined a season…

    My suggestion would be to revisit your definition of BMT, or in fact, rename it to something more appropriate.

  • Comment 80, posted at 28.10.12 22:56:04 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • You accuse a team of not having
    temperament for the big occasion because
    of one single decision made by one single
    player that had the wrong result?

    No! you are saying that! it’s s nice scarecrow to put up & smash… nowhere did you see me say one moment showed lack of bmt on the part of the sharks.

    there was an article on SI titled “beer, biltong & bmt” which chronicled SA golfers and how they’ve acquired the sense to overcome & step up & it is indeed built incrementally over time & situations & mentorship.

    3 finals 3 losses. something is lacking

  • Comment 81, posted at 28.10.12 23:11:13 by Megatron Reply

    MegatronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 79) : We have a very different opinion of what BMT is it seems. The wrong decision on the dummy or pass by Ludik or Daniel’s slipped tackle have nothing to do with BMT IMO.

    BMT is the ability to not crumble under the pressure of the moment, which the sharks definately did on Saturday. SMT (as I’ve now called it) is the ability to lift your game even for the smaller opposition. The Sharks have neither of those. A mind coach would be able to prepare them for both of those.

  • Comment 82, posted at 29.10.12 05:21:13 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 79) : Ludik’s decision to pass or dummy MAY have been different if he was working with Dr. Calder for example where he might have been able to see that there was space on the inside for him not to pass, but a mind coach would have had little effect on that.

  • Comment 83, posted at 29.10.12 05:23:37 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 81) : The Sharks were of the impression that this game was in the bag. A mind coach would have ensured that they stayed grounded and played to the level they needed to win.

  • Comment 84, posted at 29.10.12 06:02:19 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • Well done Province.

  • Comment 85, posted at 29.10.12 07:10:39 by JarsonX Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition WinnerCompetition Winner
    JarsonXAssistant coach
     
  • Sharks becoming the perennial bridesmaid team of SA. Can they only play when nobody rates them to win?

    Province rose to the occasion – a number of key Sharks players did not.

    These are my ratings – mostly based on perceptions.

    All forwards got at least 1 point subtracted for their part in the lineout shambles – either as lifter, jumper or thrower.

    Beast – 2012 version a shadow of the Beast we used to. Scrummed well = so I would give a 5 (minus 1 for line outs) – 4

    Burden – fairly quiet in general play. Scrum good when he was on. Lineout throws a total mess – 5 (minus 3 for line outs) – 2

    Jannie – scrum lost its power when he went off. His usual in the tight loose – 6 minus 1 = 5

    Sykes – scrummed well, reasonable in tight loose and defense 5 – 2 = 3

    Bresler – his usual high work rate, but getting outjumped by Etzebeth = 6 – 2 = 4

    Coetzee – does his usual thing of trying to tackle everything, except missing De Jong when it counted. Not so effective on taking the ball up, not really much at the breakdown, definitely not an openside flank = 5 – 1 = 4

    Alberts – played his usual game, bit predictable though, getting turned over often = 6 – 2 = 4

    Keegan – pretty anonymous in this game, part of poor tackling that let De Jong score = 5 – 2 = 3

    Reinach – sloppy service at times, stopping attacking momentum due to poor passes behind players, slowing down play in the strike zone when he should have speeded up = 5

    Lambie – one of the few Sharks who could hold his head high, flawless kicking to poles, mostly good tactical kicking game, good little kick that almost led to a breakout, should have held on to one crucial pass, solid game = 7

    Mvovo – not really much chance to shine, usually received the ball with plenty WP jerseys around = 6

    Whitehead – reasonable game overall, did his duties = 6

    Jordaan – some nice chasing at times, defense OK, nice break on outside of Habana = 6

    Peterson – intercepted when Sharks in trouble, tried hard to get involved = 7

    Ludik – fluffed a definite try when he passed at the wrong time, could have run the ball back a few more times at a time when the Sharks struggled to get possession rather than kick up and unders = 6

    Herbst – scrum lost its power when he came on = 3

    Cooper – very busy in tight loose, difficult to stop, line out as bad as Burden, scrumming worse – conceded a tighthead, pity about the dropped pass at the end = 6 – 3 = 3

    Marais – did not really see a lot of him so can’t rate

  • Comment 86, posted at 29.10.12 08:20:33 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringSuper Rugby player
     
  • Come on people, do you really think this team went out there to lose? They were not allowed to play their game by a team that as more accurate and took kit’s chances better. The WP team was full of game breakers and that is where they won it. Sharks were not their normal dominant selves and I think Plumtree went into this game with the idea of playing a low risk, conservative game. Backfired horribly as WP came out attacking. If we had played the the whole game like we played the last 10 minutes we would have won by 15. Not to be. WP were great and deserved the win. Sharks were brilliant all season so give them their due.

  • Comment 87, posted at 29.10.12 08:21:29 by Amateur Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 85) : It is a strange thing when the Sharks backline outplays our forwards.

    Imagine both of these elements of our team bringing their best for every game!

    Definitely not a championship team that’s so easily overcome by the favorites tag.

    Agree with KSA, we need a mental coach. Get Dr. Calder for next year’s SR, we’ve definitely got the players with the skill, they’re just lacking that composure required (except Lambie, he’ll be able to stay calm with a freight train coming at him).

  • Comment 88, posted at 29.10.12 08:29:57 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @Amateur (Comment 86) : Unfortunately there is no trophy for being brilliant all season.

    This game was lost in the lineouts.

    Even the All Blacks cannot win a game without at least getting most of their own lineout ball. Finals are about building pressure. You cannot build pressure if you cannot capitalize on lineouts from penalties nor keep the opposition pinned down in their 22.

  • Comment 89, posted at 29.10.12 08:30:50 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringSuper Rugby player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 87) : Just so we’re clear, Dr Calder is not a mental coach she works with hand eye coordination and vision exercises. :)

  • Comment 90, posted at 29.10.12 08:44:04 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©Head Coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 79) :
    BMT is a punter concept for discussion around pubs. You are presenting the scientific area of performance coaching. Wrong audience to appreciate that topic.

  • Comment 91, posted at 29.10.12 08:52:05 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishTeam captain
     
  • FIT WE HAD WON THE BOYS WOULD BE HERO’S it is just one of the games when things did not go our way.

  • Comment 92, posted at 29.10.12 09:17:05 by pete69 Reply

    pete69Currie Cup player
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 89) : I know that, but with proper hand eye coordination the guys are able to make better on field decisions – she could turn all our guys into half of what we have in Lambie. :grin:

    That will lead to confidence in their ability, and they might be less prone to panicking when under pressure.

    Her skills seem to make a much bigger impact than merely hand eye coordination.

  • Comment 93, posted at 29.10.12 09:30:44 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @Megatron (Comment 80) :

    My response to you was from your first post, on mental coaches and BMT and how one is dismissed.

    I read the article, also get your hands on Tim’s new book Raising Talent – fascinating stuff.

    @KSA Shark © (Comment 81) :

    Yes I think we are coming from two very different sides here. For the record, Ludik is working with Calder hence the huge improvement in his play this season (IMO).

    Managing mental states, or for a better word, become a strong mental player is a process similar to fitness for any rugby player. You have to first get to a level of ‘fitness’ and then you have to continually manage those levels or states.

    I say again, the fact that the Sharks need a mental coach is not in question, hell I have been saying it for years on here. But any mental coach will tell you that a good mental state or a player that can manage it does not guarantee you will win all the time, you will still lose matches as the dynamics is just too great to control 100%.

    The Sharks were not beaten because they lack BMT. They controlled enough ball and territory to win this with ease. They lost it because they could not convert chances into points when on offer, one or two bad decisions, substitutions, and a couple of individual errors.

  • Comment 94, posted at 29.10.12 10:13:24 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 93) :

    Yup, missed chances!

  • Comment 95, posted at 29.10.12 10:19:07 by Pokkel Reply
    Author
    Team captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 93) : I agree on the not taking chances, but by loosing all those lineouts they could not maintain pressure on WP or relieve pressure. To me that is where the game was lost.

  • Comment 96, posted at 29.10.12 10:20:23 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 95) :

    The line outs was a shocker.

  • Comment 97, posted at 29.10.12 10:57:47 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 96) : Under 6′s have a better functioning lineout than the Sharks ;-)

  • Comment 98, posted at 29.10.12 11:08:47 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld SupporterCompetition Winner
    lostfishSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 96) : At some point I wanted Keegan to give the ball to the WP hooker on Sharks lineouts, as the Sharks jumpers probably had more chance of catching his throws. :evil:

  • Comment 99, posted at 29.10.12 11:40:55 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 79) : Well what more can be said, uhm maybe, Hallelujah.

  • Comment 100, posted at 29.10.12 12:07:57 by Salmonoid Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 82) : Im sure I read somewhere that Ludik is in fact one of Dr Calders pupils.

  • Comment 101, posted at 29.10.12 12:13:15 by Salmonoid Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 100) : Yep, a Google search confirms this. Ludik has been under the wing of Calder.

  • Comment 102, posted at 29.10.12 12:15:48 by Salmonoid Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     

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