ChrisS

Springbok selection – Your turn


Written by Chris Smith (ChrisS)

Posted in :Original Content, Reader Submissions, Springboks on 8 Nov 2012 at 12:30
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Everybody has an opinion on the Bok Team selected to face Ireland but let’s enter the realm of fantasy for a minute and put on our own selectors hats.

Everyone is available for selection and not hampered by injury, passport issues or club commitments. Who would you choose as your Bok 23 for this weekend? This is an opinion piece so throw in whatever names you feel warrant inclusion and let’s discuss them…

My selection is:
1. Heinke Van Der Merwe
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
3. BJ Botha
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Johann Muller (c)
6. Heinrich Brussouw
7. Marcell Coetzee
8. Joe Van Niekerk
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Pat Lambie
11. Bryan Habana
12. Frans Steyn
13. Jacques Fourie
14. JP Pietersen
15. Louis Ludik

16. Schalk Brits (2,6 and 8)
17. Beast Mtwarira
18. Brian Mujati
19. Reinhardt Elstadt (lock and 7)
20. Keegan Daniel (6-8)
21. Jano Vermaak
22. Juan De Jongh
23. Jaco Taute (fullback, centre, wing)

I’ve left out a few big names such as Willem Alberts, Jannie Du Plessis and Eben Etzebeth just because of the style I’d like the Boks to play. Let’s see what team everyone would select…



101 Comments

  • 5. Johann Muller (c) – How old is this guy now? I also thought about him in the week as Captain , but then thought maybe his years count against him?

  • Comment 1, posted at 08.11.12 12:38:09 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • I dont reckon you would crack an invite to Christmas lunch with the deputy prsident. :twisted:

  • Comment 2, posted at 08.11.12 12:45:54 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • Alot of things to consider ,that I wont :lol: ;

    1.Beast
    2.Bismarck
    3.Jannie
    4.Bakkies
    5.Etzebeth
    6.Brusow
    7.Coetzee
    8.Daniel
    9.Pienaar
    10.Lambie
    11.Rhule
    12.Steyn
    13.Fourie
    14.JPP
    15.Ludik

    16.Strauss
    17.Oosthuizen
    18.Mujati?
    19.Bresler
    20.Alberts
    21.Hougard
    22.JDJ
    23.Goosen

  • Comment 3, posted at 08.11.12 12:51:45 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • 1. Beast
    2. Bismarck vc
    3. Jannie
    4. Etzebeth
    5. Muller c
    6. Brussouw
    7. Coetzee
    8. Kankowski
    9. Pienaar
    10. Lambie
    11. Habana
    12. F. Steyn
    13. De Jongh
    14. JPP
    15. Ludik

    16. Strauss
    17. Coenie
    18. Pat Cilliers
    19. Bekker
    20. Alberts
    21. Hougaard
    22. Jantjies
    23. Taute

  • Comment 4, posted at 08.11.12 12:53:28 by Ben Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 3) : Oh habs at 11 :roll:

  • Comment 5, posted at 08.11.12 12:54:31 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • Love the captain pick!

    Is Joe Van Niekerk still an option?

    I would put Josh Strauss at 8.

  • Comment 6, posted at 08.11.12 13:00:35 by Orelando_G Reply

    Orelando_GUnder 21 player
     
  • 1. Beast
    2. Bismarck
    3. Jannie
    4. Bakkies
    5. Etzebeth
    6. Brussouw
    7. Marcell
    8. Kanko
    9. Ruan
    10. SuperPat
    11. Habana
    12. Steyn
    13. de Jonge
    14. JPP
    15. Ludik

    16. Coenie
    17. Chilliboy
    18. The Other Pat
    19. Kruger
    20. Keegan
    21. Reinach
    22. Goosen
    23. Taute

  • Comment 7, posted at 08.11.12 13:11:55 by Die Kriek Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 7) :

    I like your team, very similar to mine. I copied and pasted yours :mrgreen: and I’ll add where I differ in brackets.

    1. Beast
    2. Bismarck
    3. Jannie
    4. Bakkies
    5. Etzebeth
    6. Brussouw
    7. Marcell
    8. Kanko
    9. Ruan
    10. SuperPat
    11. Habana
    12. Steyn
    13. de Jonge (Jaque Fourie)
    14. JPP
    15. Ludik

    16. Coenie (Guthro)
    17. Chilliboy (Brits)
    18. The Other Pat (BJ Botha)
    19. Kruger (Alberts)
    20. Keegan (Flo)
    21. Reinach
    22. Goosen
    23. Taute

    I would also consider Frans at fullback and then de Jongh at 12.

  • Comment 8, posted at 08.11.12 13:25:31 by Pokkel Reply
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  • 1 Heinke van der Merwe
    2 Bismarck du Plessis
    3 Jannie du Plessis
    4 Flip van der Merwe
    5 Eben Etzebeth
    6 Heinrich Brussow
    7 Schalk Burger
    8 Francois Louw
    9 Fourie du Preez
    10 Johan Goosen
    11 Bryan Habana
    12 Jean de Villiers
    13 Jaque Fourie
    14 JP Pietersen
    15 Francois Steyn

    16 Schalk Brits
    17 Gurthro Steenkamp
    18 Coenie Oosthuizen
    19 Pieter-Steph du Toit (Way outsider, I know, but would’ve taken him anyway)
    20 Willem Alberts
    21 Ruan Pienaar
    22 Patrick Lambie
    23 Juan de Jongh

  • Comment 9, posted at 08.11.12 13:30:50 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • Nobody has metioned schalk burger. Surely fit he is the best loosie in sa? Anyone agree with that?

  • Comment 10, posted at 08.11.12 13:32:52 by sharkbok Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 9) :

    Please tell me why Heinke? I haven’t see much of him since he left SA but then he was truly a one trick pony. He can scrum and…scrum and walk from scrum A to scrum B and then scrum.

    Has he improved his general play?

    Just asking.

  • Comment 11, posted at 08.11.12 13:35:37 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @sharkbok (Comment 10) :

    Perhaps it’s an ‘out of sight out of mind’ thing with Schalk.

    I’ll admit I forgot about him.

  • Comment 12, posted at 08.11.12 13:36:47 by Pokkel Reply
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  • 1. Steenkamp
    2. Bismark
    3. Jannie
    4. Etzebeth
    5. Franco
    6. Brussow
    7. Burger
    8. Vermeulen
    9. Pienaar
    10. Jantjies
    11. Habana
    12. F. Steyn
    13. Fourie
    14. JP
    15. Taute

    16. Brits
    17. Beast
    18. Cilliers
    19. Kruger
    20. Coetzee
    21. Vermaak
    22. Lambie
    23. De Jongh

  • Comment 13, posted at 08.11.12 13:41:36 by Mutley Reply
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    MutleyTeam captain
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 11) :

    I rate the guy. Yes, an excellent scrummager, but his general play wasn’t near as bad as you’re suggesting.

    He did end his career in SA in a terrible Lions team though. Confidence was shot… probably left a bad impression on some.

    Been watching a few Leinster games. He is behind Cian Healy, but genuinely think it only comes down to Healy being Irish. If they were both Irish, I think there would be nothing to choose between the two… or Heinke might even have gotten the nod ahead of him.

    Let me put it this way… What did you think of him when he spent a season (2006) with the Sharks? I thought he was excellent.

  • Comment 14, posted at 08.11.12 13:43:25 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @sharkbok (Comment 10) :

    Yessir.

  • Comment 15, posted at 08.11.12 13:43:52 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • 1 Gurthro Steenkamp
    2 Bismarck du Plessis
    3 BJ Botha
    4 Bakkies Botha
    5 Eben Etzebeth
    6 Heinrich Brussow
    7 Juan Smith
    8 Ryan Kankowski
    9 Fourie du Preez
    10 Pat Lambie
    11 Bryan Habana
    12 Frans Steyn
    13 Jaque Fourie
    14 JP Pietersen
    15 Jaco Taute

    16 Beast Mtawaira
    17 Schalk Brits
    18 Jannie Du Plessis
    19 Schalk Burger
    20 Willem Alberts
    21 Johann Muller
    22 Ruan Pienaar
    23 Juan de Jongh

    Can’t believe you all have forgotten Juan Smith…

  • Comment 16, posted at 08.11.12 13:44:50 by neilster Reply

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  • @hendrikp (Comment 14) :

    I remember his time at the Sharks and I really thought he was average at best. If I recall correctly he rarely started and played mostly of the bench.

    I wouldn’t play him ahead of Guthro or the Beast in any event.

  • Comment 17, posted at 08.11.12 13:49:10 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @neilster (Comment 16) :

    I think it’s more a case of realising that he will not recover to be back at his best.

  • Comment 18, posted at 08.11.12 13:54:30 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I know this is a opinion and preference article, but I’m amazed how underrated guys like Jannie and Beast are.

    If one looks at the Sharks season ,our fortunes changed dramatically when Beast returned, coincidence?

  • Comment 19, posted at 08.11.12 13:57:36 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • And I must say I would have Burger in my team at almost any cost; now that I remember him. :roll:

  • Comment 20, posted at 08.11.12 13:59:06 by Talent Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 8) : Honored to have done the dirty work for you! Although now I feel I should explain a few of selections (the ones you differ on)

    13. de Jonge (Jaque Fourie) – I left out Jaque, because I feel his partnership with de Villiers was more of a “whole is greater than the sum of its parts” deal, they were the best center combo in the world without either being the best at his position individually, he needs a player like Jean on his inside, Frans is not really that player imo. Juan can create things on his own, he doesn’t need his inside to make him great.

    16. Coenie (Guthro) – This was one of the tougher ones, I picked Coenie because, discipline asside, I feel he offers more to the team in the long run
    17. Chilliboy (Brits) – Never been a big fan of Brits, don’t know why, just feel he doesn’t fit somehow (instincts are a confusing bitch!)
    18. The Other Pat (BJ Botha) – How many years does BJ have left in the tank? Pat is a pick for the future
    19. Kruger (Alberts) – I know Alberts can cover lock, but why him over a specialist lock? On my side it would actually make more sense, but you have Brits and Flo already. I went with a specialist lock on the bench rather than the extra loosie path
    20. Keegan (Flo) – If I had to pick brawn here I would rather add Alberts than Flo, but I like an injection off pace late more than bruising tired bodies, that’s why Keegan got the spot

    Open to argument, just had to get my reasoning out there

  • Comment 21, posted at 08.11.12 14:00:14 by Die Kriek Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 18) : Nah, Burger and Bismarck came back from potentially career threatening injuries, and the brief is “not hampereed by injury” therefore he warrants inclusion IMO.

  • Comment 22, posted at 08.11.12 14:01:05 by neilster Reply

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  • @neilster (Comment 16) : Hasn’t he retired? Truth of it is it would be a fairy tale ending to his career if he makes it to the next world cup, but a long shot.

  • Comment 23, posted at 08.11.12 14:01:22 by Talent Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 2) : Well played sir :mrgreen:

  • Comment 24, posted at 08.11.12 14:02:55 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @neilster (Comment 16) :

    I wouldn’t look at Heinke as being above either the Beast or Gurthro.

    I definitely would’ve given him a shot though. See what he’s made of…

    If I had to pick props to play next years Rugby Championships right now…

    1 Gurthro Steenkamp
    3 Jannie du Plessis

    17 Beast Mtawarira
    18 Pat Cilliers

  • Comment 25, posted at 08.11.12 14:05:59 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @neilster (Comment 16) :

    I thought about him… but considering he’s been out for two seasons, it’s starting to feel like he’s retired.

    Can’t go picking retirees can we :mrgreen:

  • Comment 26, posted at 08.11.12 14:08:27 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • As it stands in 2012;

    6 front rowers;
    Beast/Oosthuizen ,Bismarck/Strauss ,Jannie/?

    4 second rowers;
    Etzebeth/Flip ,Bresler/Bakkies

    5 looseforwards;
    Burger, Brussow, Coetzee, Alberts ,Daniel

    9/10
    Pienaar/Hougaard ,Lambie/Goosen

    Centers;
    JDJ/Fourie ;Steyn/JDV

    Back 3;
    JPP/Habana ,Rhule/Mapoe ,Ludik/Coetzee

  • Comment 27, posted at 08.11.12 14:09:12 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • My team, with everyone fit and on form with no overseas based players:
    1. Beast
    2. Bismarck
    3. Jannie
    4. Etzebeth
    5. Pieter Steph du Toit (Based purely on his potential)
    6. Brussow
    7. Burger (c)
    8. Marcell
    9. Hougaard
    10. Lambie
    11. Habana
    12. F Steyn
    13. de Jongh
    14. Pietersen
    15. Taute

    16. Chiliboy
    17. Oosthuizen
    18. Elstadt
    19. Kolisi
    20. Van Zyl
    21. Jantjies
    22. Mvovo

  • Comment 28, posted at 08.11.12 14:09:27 by 13 Reply

    13Under 19 player
     
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 21) :

    I’m not sure I agree about Jaque only being good in partnership with JdV. Jaque played some of his best rugby when he played wing. Some of his most spectacular tries were scored at wing.

    I’ll concede on BJ Botha but not sure Pat Cilliers is the answer although he will be good as an impact player. I’m not sure how comfortable I would feel if Jannie cries of injured 5 min into a game and Pat needs to play 75min against a strong pack.

    If you want IMPACT of the bench then Brits is definatly a better option than Chilliboy IMO.

    Loosies are a really difficult call. I didn’t even consider Schalk and Juan. Alberts with 20 to go is a must IMO but who to leave out.

  • Comment 29, posted at 08.11.12 14:17:44 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 9) :

    No Arno Botha?? :shock:

  • Comment 30, posted at 08.11.12 14:26:14 by wpw Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 29) :

    Jaque hardly played wing from what I recall…

    3 games for the Boks on the wing.

  • Comment 31, posted at 08.11.12 14:26:31 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @wpw (Comment 30) :

    Ahead of??? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 32, posted at 08.11.12 14:27:45 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikpCurrie Cup player
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 32) :

    hehehe

    And no JP Dup. I’m shocked! ;-)

  • Comment 33, posted at 08.11.12 14:37:38 by wpw Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 29) : Thats the beauty of having Pat and Coenie on the bench together, if Jannie is off after 5, Coenie can come on. With the new 8man bench, props can specialize again, but there is still place for the double-sided prop

  • Comment 34, posted at 08.11.12 14:40:31 by Die Kriek Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • Well, this changes a lot. If neither of the normal restrictions apply, I would go for this line-up:

    1. Tendai Mtawarira
    2. Bismarck du Plessis
    3. BJ Botha
    4. Eben Etzebeth
    5. Johann Muller
    6. Heinrich Brussow
    7. Marcell Coetzee
    8. Ryan Kankowski
    9. Ruan Pienaar

    10. Pat Lambie
    11. Bryan Habana
    12. Tim Whitehead
    13. Jaque Fourie
    14. JP Pietersen
    15. Louis Ludik

    16. Schalk Brits
    17. Gurthro Steenkamp
    18. Brian Mujati
    19. Bakkies Botha
    20. Siya Kolisi
    21. Jano Vermaak
    22. Jaco Taute
    23. Willie Le Roux

    I still feel sad for not being able to include Cobus Reinach, Marnus Schoeman and Gio Aplon… Especially Schoeman is a fantastic player who is massively underrated.

  • Comment 35, posted at 08.11.12 14:41:07 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

    TRF_EzequielUnder 21 player
     
  • Pieter Steph du Toit? Lol, that is priceless.

    Based on potential? Since when the f*** do we give out Springbok caps based on potential?
    Especially when the player in question has played, like what, 6 caps in total at senior rugby.

    Have you lot lost the plot?
    This reminds me of how this site went on last year about Charl McLeod, as if he was the second coming or something. Where is he now?

    I’m just amazed that some of you think the Springbok jersey should be some sort of training ground for precious young Sharks players.
    Do you hold the jersey in such low esteem?

  • Comment 36, posted at 08.11.12 14:42:27 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 34) :

    Glad to see you have it all figured out! Clever boy! Now get back under that rock!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 37, posted at 08.11.12 14:46:28 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 36) :

    Vinnie Vinnie Vinnie…..relax chom after all your team won the CC. ;-) :grin:

  • Comment 38, posted at 08.11.12 14:47:27 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Now here’s a more realistic proposal.

    Which team would you pick if you were Heyneke Meyer, given injuries, availability etc.

    I mean, why daydream when we can make real choices?

  • Comment 39, posted at 08.11.12 14:48:10 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 37) : The rock is getting mossy from all the rain, I don’t like mossy damnit!! Just dont tell CS :razz:

  • Comment 40, posted at 08.11.12 14:51:04 by Die Kriek Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 38) :

    I’m actually quite chilled. I normally just spill my guts and then re-edit it to make it sound nice. Just cant be bothered today.

    I just thought it was absolute precious BS and I called it as such.

    We’re all happy to celebrate the history of the Springbok and how much it means to all of us and how proud we are. We all go to great lengths to follow the game etc. And then somebody sees some kid they like and think he’s going to be the next Sachin Tendulkar and should just be given a cap. Its frigging crazy.
    Becoming a Bok is more than just having the talent. Its also about being able to get through the first few seasons, produce consistent performances and say injury-free.
    If you can do all of that you have the possibility of becoming a Bok. Fail in any one of those and you don’t make it, it really is that simple.

    We’ve seen so many players with “potential” simply not step up to the plate. We all go on about somebody like Pear Spear, but then we go and do exactly the same thing. PS also had ”potential”.
    Then you contrast that to somebody like Etsebeth. He simply stepped up and delivered.

  • Comment 41, posted at 08.11.12 14:54:03 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 26) : I know, one can only dream though. I still think with Brussow and Smith on top of their game at 6 and 7, and a running 8…thats our best mix.

  • Comment 42, posted at 08.11.12 14:57:51 by neilster Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 41) :

    I agree!

    I also can’t see the premature hype of some players but it’s not limited to Sharks players or Sharks fans. Don’t forget JP du Plessis, Arno Botha, CJ Stander and countless others.

    I reckon a players needs to consistently prove themselves in SupeRugby before ‘legend’ status can be achieved.

  • Comment 43, posted at 08.11.12 14:58:58 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 36) : Indeed, another opportunity for me to diss the Jacques Potgieter selection! Arggh I’m still angry about it.

  • Comment 44, posted at 08.11.12 14:59:14 by neilster Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 41) :

    Look at Pollard…still writing Matric and already the next great Bok flyhalf. :shock:

  • Comment 45, posted at 08.11.12 15:00:46 by Pokkel Reply
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  • For my money, I’m exceptionally glad that Brits got a call up.

    I’ve watched him play an enormous amount of rugby over the last few years and he hasd consistently delivered an extraoridnary level of performance.
    He has consistently picked up awards and is a delight to watch. One of the few modern-day player who really has the x-factor. Very sad that he has wasted his career up North, but such is the circus that is SA Rugby.

    I’d pick JdJ, I’d have Kitshoff on the bench, Kirchner would never again see a GnG jersey.
    Steyn would be gone and I’d have Elton on the bench.

    If I could get rid of JdV I would, but luckily for him there are no obvious replacements.

    And I’d include a specialist wing instead of a retreaded scrummie.

    As a matter of principal I’d not play players out of position, except for Etsebeth who could decide where he wants to play. He could even coach the side in my mind…

    Last, but not least, its not quite relevant to this thread, but I’d sack HM and Pear Spear would also never again play without wearing a babablou jersey.
    I’d also introduce mandatory basic skills training to ensure somebody of his ilk is never again selected to represent the mighty Republic.

  • Comment 46, posted at 08.11.12 15:01:10 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 46) :

    And always have Sheryl Calder in the Bok setup!

  • Comment 47, posted at 08.11.12 15:05:04 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 47) :

    Couldnt agree more!

  • Comment 48, posted at 08.11.12 15:18:42 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 46) :

    Dude, you post way to little.

    How about writing an article or three?? ;-)

  • Comment 49, posted at 08.11.12 15:19:19 by wpw Reply
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    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • One more thing – this may be controversial but I dont think overseas Boks should be selected at all.

    You pays your money and you takes your chance. Guys that go overseas made their choice. I dont, for example, in any way believe that the standards in Japan are in any way on par with the standards even in Europe, not to mention in the Currie Cup or SR.
    There is perhaps scope to give a guy a chance, but that player then needs to return to SA.

    We have the depth and we need to make it work with the players available.
    Selecting overseas Boks just reinforces the mindset that they will be selected if the need eventually occurs.

    Selecting guys like Heinke also does no justice to somebody like Kitshoff, who more than held his own at a very young age both in SR and in the CC final.

  • Comment 50, posted at 08.11.12 15:24:23 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 49) :

    Wes my brew!

    Dude, I took a self-imposed break from rugby after the WC last year.
    It was good and I found I actually have other interests! The world is an interesting place!

    I really should pull finger and scribe something, but where to find the time. I’m also so out of it its not even funny. Watched like three SR games this season.

    Its depressing being a Bok fan – just when things seemed to be coming right we went and took a few massive steps backward with the appointment of the Pretoria Broederbond. It just becomes exhausting watching a proud nation repeatedly hitting their head against a wall, all in the name of chasing a playing style that went out of fashion in the late seventies. Admittedly it made a brief comeback when the Bulls were mullering all and sundry, but the game were playign now is vastly different from that played in 2005.

  • Comment 51, posted at 08.11.12 15:27:51 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 49) :

    I used to get the odd email from Rob urging me to tone an article down… seems he’s MIA. Who will edit my articles now?

  • Comment 52, posted at 08.11.12 15:29:06 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • 1.Beast
    2.Bissie
    3.Jannie
    4.Etzebeth
    5.Bekker
    6.Flouw
    7.Alberts
    8.Burger(C)
    9.Fourie Du Preez
    10.Lambie
    11.Habana
    12.Fransie
    13.Jaque Fourie
    14.JPP
    15.Kirchner

    16.Brits
    17.G.Steenkamp
    18.Mujati
    19.J.Kruger
    20.Coetzee
    21.Francois Hougaard
    22.Goosen
    23.Rhule

  • Comment 53, posted at 08.11.12 15:29:44 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 36) :

    Relax bud, it’s just my opinion.

    I agree du Toit hasn’t really done enough to be selected, but I think he has huge potential so would give him a chance.

    You obviously feel the same way about Kitshoff, even though he hasn’t really proven himself yet.

  • Comment 54, posted at 08.11.12 15:49:01 by 13 Reply

    13Under 19 player
     
  • @13 (Comment 54) :

    What, you mean like playing three season of Super Rugby and winning the Currie Cup?
    As opposed to like 6 caps?

    Why dont we just play Morne Morkel at lock? He also has potential and about the same level of experience as Steph.

    If he’s good enough he’ll be the reckoning next year, or the year after that.
    But to give somebody Bok colours who doesnt even have half a season of professional rugby under his belt is nuts. If he your son or something?

  • Comment 55, posted at 08.11.12 15:52:30 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @13 (Comment 54) :

    Has Steph even played against any of the top10 locks in the game?
    Kitshoff has already scrummed against the best in the southern hemisphere, including Jannie dup, the Bok incumbent, in the final of the domestic competition and he’s not selected. .

  • Comment 56, posted at 08.11.12 15:57:00 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @13 (Comment 54) :

    Sorry if I sound annoyed, I just believe bok colours are the highest honour that can be bestowed on a South African rugby player.
    And honours like that are resevred for the deserving that have proved their mettle, not one that are big and fast and have potential.

  • Comment 57, posted at 08.11.12 15:58:23 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 57) : Mr. Fun-Police – this is a fantasy selection thread. You really need to calm down and remind yourself that none of the folks posting in this thread are involved in actual Springbok selection.

  • Comment 58, posted at 08.11.12 16:07:59 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 55) :

    I think you may be mistaken, Kitshoff has basically played just one super rugby season (of which you saw only three games I believe), and two Currie Cups.

    In my opinion he has been no more than adequate in those games. He is very young for a prop so there is little doubt that he will become a very good player, but currently I don’t think he has proven enough to be selected.

    As I said before neither has du Toit, but in some cases giving a young player, with potential but no experience, a chance can work. Frans Steyn and James O’Connor are just two players who had not proven anything when selected, yet really made a success of it.

    In all honesty, if I was the Springbok coach right now I would not select du Toit, but since it was a fantasy pick I went for him because I think he is a very exciting player with massive potential.

  • Comment 59, posted at 08.11.12 16:09:27 by 13 Reply

    13Under 19 player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 58) :

    Dude, why would you think I’m not calm? Because I dont agree with somebody? Dry your eyes my man. I’m not exactly sitting here spitting coffee; I’m having a debate and having a bit of fun.

  • Comment 60, posted at 08.11.12 16:17:01 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 52) : He he, I remember your Brian Mujati piece.

  • Comment 61, posted at 08.11.12 16:17:07 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @13 (Comment 59) :

    My man *sigh*.

    Stepehen Kitsoff:
    Currie Cup caps 20
    Super Rugby caps 20

    Pieter-Steph du Toit
    Currie Cup caps 6
    SuperRugby caps 6

    Now, unless I missed something, there arent even 20 games in a season in either the Kerrie Koppie or SR.

    Add to that, a a semi in the SR comp, a semi in the CC and a final in the CC.

    I appreciate this is only you opinion, but in this case your opinion is completely and utterly wrong… ;-)

  • Comment 62, posted at 08.11.12 16:19:55 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 61) :

    Yeah, not my finest moment eh!

  • Comment 63, posted at 08.11.12 16:21:07 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • One thing I didnt know is that love child Pieter-Steph du Toit is actually Capetonian…

    Actually, I think you might have a point 13…

  • Comment 64, posted at 08.11.12 16:23:17 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 63) : Nah, a bit of spice is necessary every now and then.

  • Comment 65, posted at 08.11.12 16:29:15 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • And not one pick for poor morné steyn?! Not even from the bulls fans. Burger and Smith gets picked and not morné?! All three of them last had some form back in 2009 and at least morné is match fit unlike the other two. Come on guys give the warrior some love.

  • Comment 66, posted at 08.11.12 16:29:39 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 64) : Pieter Steph is a Swartlander, from Malmesburry. The ironical thing is that it was a Stormers fan (Hendrik) that first suggested him.

  • Comment 67, posted at 08.11.12 16:31:09 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 66) :

    JD, I wouldnt pick any of them. And Id add Brussouw to that list.

    Their time has come and gone… and in my experience players rarely come back from long-term injury with their skills in tact.

    Also, the game has changed since they last played and younger, better players have come through. Players that havent yet had to deal with long-term injury and are still fearless.

  • Comment 68, posted at 08.11.12 16:32:30 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 67) :

    Dude, I was driving in the UK last year and I got lost and stopped this little delivery guy on a scooter and asked for directions.
    So it turns out he has the biggest brei Ive ever heard.
    So I ask him, in my put on brei accent, if he’s from Malmesbury, and he replies “No, I’m actually frrrom Morrrresburrrrg hey”.
    He had no idea I was a saffa.

    I had a mate with me in the car, also from Slaapstad, and it took everything we had not to collapse laughing. I drove off and broke myself laughing. It was so, so funny.

  • Comment 69, posted at 08.11.12 16:35:55 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 60) : My bad, in retrospect your comment 36 is the very picture of fun :roll:

  • Comment 70, posted at 08.11.12 16:37:41 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 69) : :lol: There is no chance of getting rid of / hiding that bgrrrreeeiii.

  • Comment 71, posted at 08.11.12 16:40:04 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 70) :

    Ah at last you’ve come to your senses…
    For a second there I thought you needed a cuddle.

  • Comment 72, posted at 08.11.12 16:45:10 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 72) : Not the best back-peddle I’ve seen but not the worst either…

  • Comment 73, posted at 08.11.12 17:05:59 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 62) :

    My apologies, I was in fact the one who was mistaken. Kitshoff has played two Super Rugby seasons.

    Still, as I said before, wouldn’t pick him though.

  • Comment 74, posted at 08.11.12 17:07:21 by 13 Reply

    13Under 19 player
     
  • @13 (Comment 74) :

    Thats fair play mate.

    I would also say that Etsebeth has also only 13 Super Rugby caps… and 8 Springbok caps…

    but then he was at the right place at the right time. And he is an absolute monster!
    I remember on Reunion or one fo those kiwi programs, somebody mentioned (in awe) “these bloody saffas, they just shake a tree and a 6 foot 6 gorilla falls out”.

  • Comment 75, posted at 08.11.12 17:19:36 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 75) :

    In the end it all depends on the player. Some guys just have what it takes at that stage, some still need a bit of time to develop.

    All we can do as supporters is speculate, and hope that the guys in charge don’t stuff it up too badly.

    Etzebeth is just a freak. The guy is only 21. He still hasn’t even reached his physical peak yet. In a couple of years he is going to be incredible.

  • Comment 76, posted at 08.11.12 17:35:27 by 13 Reply

    13Under 19 player
     
  • @13 (Comment 76) :

    Lol, I was looking at him the other day, he still looks like an adolescent.

    If he stays injury-free he’s going to be the best we’ve ever seen.

    Best thing that could happen to our Malmesbury boy Steph, is if he was to get regular gametime with the Sharks next year. Unfortunately that would mean somebody would need to step aside, dare I say it will be Bresler? ;-)

    Or he could come home and partner Etsebeth, its not like the man of glass will keep him out.

  • Comment 77, posted at 08.11.12 17:38:10 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 77) :

    And by man of glass, I mean Bekker.

  • Comment 78, posted at 08.11.12 17:39:01 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • Here goes let me pick a team I think would dominate

    01. Beast
    02. Bismark
    03. Jannie
    04. Alberts
    05. Etzebeth
    06. Brussow
    07. Coetzee
    08. Kanko
    09. Pienaar
    10. Lambie
    11. Habana
    12. fransie
    13. JFourie
    14. JPP
    15. Ludick

    16. Brits
    17. Cilliers TH
    18. Oosthuizen LH
    19. Mostert/PSDT (lock)
    20. Deysel
    21. Hougaard/CJ Stander
    22. Goosen
    23. Jordaan

    I have 1 bench position in question as it would depend on who your opponents are, 6-2 split or 5-3 being the factors.

    Hell the thing is I sit here and yes I see a team which most will tell me too many Sharks in it?? but there are a few that could even be in there, not to speak of Flouw etc etc etc.

    What this tells me is how the hell are we not ruling world rugby?????????????????????????????????????

  • Comment 79, posted at 08.11.12 18:29:08 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverAssistant coach
     
  • I mean If i was a selector right now i would have Bakkies as lock partner to Etzebeth. the problem is then you have to have someone that is not a lock call the line outs. Fact is Bakkies does not call and nor does Etzebeth, thaat is also a reason why Kanko would be a must.

    Before he left for Japan and became Ryan-San, he was calling the Sharks lineouts.

  • Comment 80, posted at 08.11.12 18:31:50 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverAssistant coach
     
  • 1 Guthro
    2 Bismark
    3 Jannie
    4 Bakkies
    5 Etsebeth
    6 Siya Kolisi
    7 Juan Smith
    8 Kanko
    9 Pienaar
    10 Lambie
    11 Habanna
    12 Frans Steyn
    13 Fourie
    14 JPP
    15 Ludick

    16 Beast
    17 Oosthuizen
    18 Brits
    19 Muller
    20 Burger
    21 Goosen
    22 Reinach
    23 Taute (Outside center, FullBack)

    You have to have two props on the bench – I chose Coenie over BJ ad Mjati because e can cover both loosehead and tighthead.
    Kanko to call the lineouts so I picked a no5 lock in muller as bakup. I cant resist putting etsebeth and bakkies to start together.
    My loosie combo has speed and power with burger covering all three incase of injuries. You can’t not have 2 scrummies in a team.

  • Comment 81, posted at 08.11.12 19:48:46 by byron Reply

    byronSuper Rugby player
     
  • seriously….. Burger…..

  • Comment 82, posted at 08.11.12 20:16:11 by Franshark Reply
    Author
    FransharkTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 77) : Well if you consider our line out performance in the final PSDT can walk into our team.

  • Comment 83, posted at 08.11.12 20:38:27 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • My team:
    1 beast mtawarira
    2 bismarck du plessis
    3 jannie du plessis
    4 eben etzebeth
    5 anton bresler
    6 schalk burger
    7 francois louw
    8 ryan kankowski
    9 ruan pienaar
    10 pat lambie
    11 bryan habana
    12 francois steyn
    13 juan de jongh
    14 jp pietersen
    15 louis ludik

    16 adriaan strauss
    17.Coenie oosthuizen
    18 BJ botha
    19 willem alberts
    20 marcell coetzee
    21 cobus reinach
    22 johan goosen
    23 jaco taute

    I think Bresler and Eben will form a formidable lock partnership with Eben calling the lineouts. Obviously sideshow bob out of the 23 other wise I think its pretty self explanatory oh and Alberts is great off the bench like when he was under PdV. As effective as dead rubber when starting…

  • Comment 84, posted at 08.11.12 22:09:36 by HORSEFLY Reply

    HORSEFLYUnder 19 player
     
  • 1. Beast
    2. Bissie
    3. Jannie
    4. Bakkies
    5. Etzebeth
    6. Schalk (captain)
    7. Marcel
    8. Kanko
    9. Ruan
    10.Lambie
    11.Habana
    12.Fransie
    13.de Jongh
    14.JPP
    15.Ludik
    16.Chilli
    17.Gurthro
    18.BJ
    19.Alberts
    20.Keegan
    21.Hougaard
    22.Goosen
    23.Mvovo

  • Comment 85, posted at 09.11.12 06:24:44 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • here is the worst springbok team, but i need help can’t fill it
    1 chadwick
    2 cooper( just because of that knock in the cc final and his great line out work)
    3 dean greyling
    4
    5
    6
    7 jacques potgieter
    8 spies
    9 january
    10 morne
    11 hougaard
    12 wynand olivier
    13
    14 van den heever
    15 zane kirchner
    16
    17
    18
    19
    20 bolla conradie
    21 earl rose
    22
    23

  • Comment 86, posted at 09.11.12 11:44:06 by MJ Reply

    MJUnder 21 player
     
  • @MJ (Comment 86) : Rather put Dean at 1 and Werner Kruger at 3

  • Comment 87, posted at 09.11.12 12:04:41 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • Worst Springbok XV:

    1. Dean Greyling
    2. Tiaan Liebenberg
    3. CJ van der Linde
    4. De Kock Steenkamp
    5. Ross Skeate
    6. Deon Stegmann
    7. Dewald Potgieter
    8. Tera Mtembu
    9. Tewis de Bruyn
    10.Earl Rose
    11.Akona Ndungane
    12.Barry Geel
    13.JP du Plessis
    14.Gerhard van den Heever
    15.Zane Kirchner

  • Comment 88, posted at 09.11.12 12:34:33 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

    TRF_EzequielUnder 21 player
     
  • @TRF_Ezequiel (Comment 88) : :mrgreen:

    I’d substitute Spies for Mtembu though and I’m dissapointed that you couldn’t find a space for Wynand Olivier in your team.

  • Comment 89, posted at 09.11.12 12:43:21 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • Re: the worst Springbok team ever, how can you select the likes of Chadders, Cooper, etc if they were never Boks in the first place?? :roll:

    Same goes for Earl Rose. He never played test rugby! :twisted:

    And besides, Louis Koen was far worse than him.

  • Comment 90, posted at 09.11.12 12:59:14 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @TRF_Ezequiel (Comment 88) : @wpw (Comment 90) :

    I agree with Wes. You can’t chose players that haven’t played for the Boks yet.

  • Comment 91, posted at 09.11.12 13:52:04 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
    Assistant coach
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 91) :

    In that case, here’s my worst Bok team of all time (post 1992):

    15 – Russell Bennett
    14 – Henno Mentz
    13 – Jorrie Muller
    12 – Kaya Molatana
    11 – Andre Snyman
    10 – Louis Koen/Gaffie du Toit
    9 – Dan Van Zyl/Dave Von Hoesslin
    8 – Anton Leonard
    7 – Rob Brink
    6 – Solly T
    5 – Fritz Van Heerden
    4 – Quinton Davids
    3 – Ettiene Fynn/Werner Kruger
    2 – Dale Sandton
    1 – Wessel Roux/Dean Greyling

  • Comment 92, posted at 09.11.12 15:36:17 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @wpw (Comment 92) : you’d better edit that comment and remove Brink’s name RIGHT NOW, because I’m getting on a plane as we speak to come and kick your ass

  • Comment 93, posted at 09.11.12 15:40:53 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 93) :

    Is that because he was born in your home town Rob? ;-)

  • Comment 94, posted at 09.11.12 16:09:58 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 92) :

    Dude, how can you rate Solly as worse than Steggman?

    That’s crazy man talk man!

  • Comment 95, posted at 09.11.12 16:11:21 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • Oops. Forgot about Stegmann. :roll:

  • Comment 96, posted at 09.11.12 16:13:39 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpwAssistant coach
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 91) : I was just picking players who are in the Currie Cup First Division. I will give it another go.

    1. Dean Greyling
    2. Tiaan Liebenberg
    3. Werner Kruger
    4. Albert van den Berg
    5. Alistair Hargreaves
    6. Deon Stegmann
    7. Luke Watson
    8. Dewald Potgieter
    9. Ricky Januarie
    10.Jaco van der Westhuizen
    11.Jongi Nokwe
    12.Wynand Olivier
    13.Wayne Julies
    14.Akona Ndungane
    15.Gaffie du Toit

    16.Hanyani Shimange
    17.Eddie Andrews
    18.Gerrie Britz
    19.Pierre Spies
    20.Bolla Conradie
    21.Andre Pretorius
    22.Bevin Fortuin

  • Comment 97, posted at 09.11.12 16:39:34 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

    TRF_EzequielUnder 21 player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 94) : first Bok from my high school

  • Comment 98, posted at 09.11.12 16:46:04 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 98) :

    :-)

    I thought as much! I’m just still glad you took the ring out of your nose when you moved to the coast…

    Its amazing how one can get defensive like that though. A certain Etsebeth grew up in my neighbourhood; didnt even know it until a couple of days ago. Given that I left there when he was like 10 doesnt help… still proud of the boy though. They breed em tough down there!

  • Comment 99, posted at 09.11.12 17:46:47 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @wpw (Comment 92) :

    Probably not th worst springboks bu definitely some of the more disapointing

    15 –
    14 – Jongi Nokwe
    13 –
    12 – Wynand Olivier (35 Matches for the Boks – 1 try?)
    11 –
    10 – Gaffie du Toit / Earl Rose?

    9 –
    8 –
    7 –
    6 – Puke Watson
    5 – Alistair Hargreaves
    4 –
    3 – Werner Kruger
    2 – Hanyani Shimange
    1 – ear Biting Johan le Roux

  • Comment 100, posted at 09.11.12 21:11:59 by byron Reply

    byronSuper Rugby player
     
  • If a “worse bok team” is selected earl rose must be there, even if he did not play a test he went on enough tours to be selected. Will pick earl at 15 and liefling hougaard at 10.

  • Comment 101, posted at 09.11.12 21:22:17 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     

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