Richard Ferguson

Changes for Sharks as well


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks on 3 Sep 2013 at 12:05
Tagged with : , , , , , , , ,

While on the subject of changes, we are likely to see the Sharks make a few for their encounter with Western Province this weekend.

Thanks to Mr Andre Bloem’s twitter feed (@SportswaveAndre), we have gained some insight in terms of a injury update from the Sharks.

Odwa Ndungane is set to miss the match against WP due to an injury, which took the player off the field at half time against the Bulls. Ndungane was replaced by Jaco van Tonder, but his replacement for the match against WP might not be the same player. This is because Tim Whitehead looks set to make a return to the Sharks team.

Whitehead has missed large chunks of the 2013 season due to firstly an arm injury, and lately he has been struggling with an ankle, but news seem to indicate that he may well start this weekend. This may force a shift out of midfield for Louis Ludik, while SP Marais could well end up on the wing, with Ludik returning to the fullback jersey.

Another backline change could be Butch James starting ahead of Fred Zeilinga, this change being purely rotational. I cannot quite understand the logic here, with Zeilinga needing every minute on the field to gain as much experience as possible, but we will see if this change happens.

One other change that might come about is Danie Mienie starting the match, potentially replacing Dale Chadwick. As Rob mentioned in an earlier piece, Chadwick has played every minute, bar the ten minutes in the sin bin this weekend, and could well do with the rest.



47 Comments

  • ok, so interesting.

    I would look to minimise disruption by picking Tim on the bench this week and bringing Van Tonder in to start at wing. I think he’s been going well as a sub and now deserves a start. Don’t want to move SP from fullback…. I think he’s a good option long-term in that position and could even push for first-choice next season.

    Give Heimar another start – he hardly deserves to be dropped – and let Tim come on at either 12 or 13 in the second half, depending on how things are going.

  • Comment 1, posted at 03.09.13 12:10:14 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 1) :

    I agree with your thinking..

    Tim can play either 12 or 13, so I was thinking of moving Ludik to fullback, Marais on wing and Williams and Whitehead in midfield.

    But your recommendation looks better, while allowing Whitehead to start off the bench. Agreed on van Tonder, would be interested to see what he does with a planned start.

  • Comment 2, posted at 03.09.13 12:13:44 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 2) : well, there are lots of factors to take into account, of course.

    The one thing that is a huge concern is lack of options at 13 outside of Ludik. At some stage, we are definitely going to have to consider making one of the wing/fullbacks that we have into a 13… and it seems a bit silly persisting with Ludik there knowing that we won’t have him next year. I guess they feel tat with Jordaan and Steyn coming back into the picture for SR, we’ll be well stocked in midfield, especially now that Heimar is stepping up so nicely. Still…. I wouldn’t mind seeing a van Tonder, Maseko or Marais given a run at 13.

    Tim is a good 13, of that I have no doubt. Top-end pace does worry me in that position, but he’s probably no slower than Ludik if we’re brutally honest.

  • Comment 3, posted at 03.09.13 12:17:22 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 3) :

    Playing Ludik at all during this Currie Cup seems a little silly, but with gaps in areas thanks to injuries, one can understand them using him to fill those gaps.

    Interesting to hear your thoughts on he shift of a winger/fullback to thirteen. I have always been against the idea of shifting a player into a new position, but in this case, it could work.

    Once Super Rugby rolls around again, we have to remember that we have JP Pietersen back as well. He made some strides in being an able 13, but for him to make the move, we have to have super wings. In that regard, Lwazi is worrying me at the moment, and Odwa simply isn’t a Super Rugby wing anymore..

  • Comment 4, posted at 03.09.13 12:20:41 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • Just seen an update from Andre Bloem:

    It looks likely that Sizo Maseko will start in the place of Odwa Ndungane this weekend, meaning a largely unchanged midfield etc.

    Also, Justin Downey likely to remain on the bench.

  • Comment 5, posted at 03.09.13 12:25:03 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 4) : ah – hang on. Yes, of course, I have forgotten about JP.

    My issue with shifting him, though, was always because he is such a good wing. In my mind, if a guy is best in the world (or close to) in his position, you don’t even think about shifting him.

    Class 13s are thin on the ground. I remember in the past the Aussies would always start a potential 13 off at wing and then move him later in his career, just as the Kiwis tended to do between 12 and 10.

    Moving Mvovo to 13 might just be a great way to get him involved in the game a bit more. He’s really struggling from wing.

  • Comment 6, posted at 03.09.13 12:25:31 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 5) :

    Tera Mthembu is not quite ready for action and will not take part in Currie Cup action this weekend.

  • Comment 7, posted at 03.09.13 12:25:35 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • Shit, I’ve just remembered that we have S’bura set to come back in the next few weeks and also keen for game time.

    So while I hear you that wing is a concern in the short term, with Odwa too slow and Lwazi just not quite kicking on, we really do have superb depth developing in the back 3…. and that’s even after losing Ludik and Viljoen.

  • Comment 8, posted at 03.09.13 12:26:38 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 6) :

    The thing I have against Mvovo is his lack of hands, and the fact that he will come under a huge amount of pressure on defence, which we have seen can be a little wonky.

    Still, should be interesting!

    JP Pietersen really should stay on the wing, I would rather bring in a younger 13 to play either side of experiences players, than move a world class player out of position.

  • Comment 9, posted at 03.09.13 12:27:41 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 8) :

    Oh yes, fully agree that we are covered. It just becomes a question of who to start, who to bench and who stays at home in certain position, especially looking at wing in Super Rugby: JPP, Mvovo, Sithole, van Toner, Maseko, Robinson.. Plenty there!

  • Comment 10, posted at 03.09.13 12:29:20 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 5) : ja, just saw that too.

    Impressive consistency from the coaches and good treatment of Maseko. He was unlucky to lose out to Odwa last week and only fair that he comes back for another chance.

    That does mean that somebody is going to miss out, though…. and my feeling is it will be either Williams or van Tonder.

  • Comment 11, posted at 03.09.13 12:31:42 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 11) :

    Williams has been good, he will be unlucky to miss out.

    Van Tonder, I think, is set to miss out, just one too many wings in the team otherwise..

  • Comment 12, posted at 03.09.13 12:34:54 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 10) : Robinson? Man, it just gets worse, doesn’t it. Every time you think you’ve remembered everyone, another player pops into your head.

  • Comment 13, posted at 03.09.13 12:35:38 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 12) : I hear you, but then again, the coaches don’t seem to be looking at it like that. I think they’ve been pretty clear with the players about what sort of a run they should expect. Let’s assume that the plan was always to start Tim for 2 weeks, then Heimar for 2 weeks…. Heimar has already had an “extra start” due to Tim’s injury.

    It’s a tricky system to get used to this, but apparently the coaches have it all mapped out. We’ll need to look back at the end of the season to see how well they’ve done with giving everyone adequate game time.

  • Comment 14, posted at 03.09.13 12:38:00 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 13) :

    Fullback may become a worry, seeing as only SP Marais and Sean Robinson are fully fledged fullbacks. I suppose Odwa can be counted in there as well.

  • Comment 15, posted at 03.09.13 12:38:19 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • I think one thing that is for sure, though, is that they aren’t ever going to operate a “one chance and one chance only” kind of setup. It will make selections fairer on the one hand, but probably also less form dependent (which I guess is unfair) on the other.

  • Comment 16, posted at 03.09.13 12:39:07 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 16) : shit, did that even make sense?

  • Comment 17, posted at 03.09.13 12:39:22 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 15) : and Frans Steyn…. we still have very little idea about where they see him playing. Got to argue that with Whitehead and Williams, Steyn could become an expensive luxury at 12.

  • Comment 18, posted at 03.09.13 12:40:09 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 14) :

    That is the system Charl was talking about after the game, the fact that Cobus is going to start this weekend again.

    Interesting system, but gives the players time to settle, and they know where they stand. Good plan as long as the players buy into it.

    On that basis, should we expect to see Craig Burden, Peet Marais start again? What about the loosies though, are we going to see any rotation there?

  • Comment 19, posted at 03.09.13 12:40:21 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 18) :

    Won’t be surprised to see Steyn cover positions 10 – 15 from the bench, but yeah, I kind of forgot about him.

    Probably another fullback option, as well as covering flyhalf (even though we have enough there with Pat, Fred and probably Butch), but will probably look to play exclusively in midfield, whether at 12 or 13.

    With Jordaan (Another potential wing), Williams and Whitehead, we seem to have a bit of depth there as well..

  • Comment 20, posted at 03.09.13 12:42:44 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 19) : to answer your last question – I fully expect to see Craig and Peet starting again.

    Regarding the loosies – injuries to Stander and Mtembu have kind of killed off some of the rotation options, although a guy like Francois Kleinhans still needs to get a look in. Sounds like the pack will be unchanged this week bar the straight Mienie/Chadwick swap.

  • Comment 21, posted at 03.09.13 12:45:55 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • A couple of thoughts, the WP centres are pretty decent so I wouldnt experiment too much in this game in that area unless we dont mind losing. So stick with Williams and Ludick, SP at 15 and Mvovo and Maseko on the wings. Up front we need fresh legs and motivation, so why not start Gerber and Mienie and Downey. Let Deysel come on in 2nd half. As we saw last week its not the starting team that wins you the game these days. U have to think about who is going to come off the bench to win the game.

  • Comment 22, posted at 03.09.13 12:47:01 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • There is definitely no need to move another player to centre. We already have Whitehead and Heimar and then what many expected to be our first choice centre combo this year in Steyn and Jordaan coming back from injury. And then not to mention Esterhuizen and Fisher coming through the ranks

  • Comment 23, posted at 03.09.13 12:47:37 by woody Reply
    Author
    woodyUnder 21 player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 21) :

    Very interesting rotation policy this, I am not sure whether I like it or not..

    Surely if a player is clearly outplaying the other player in his position, he should start every match. Think about it this way, look at Kyle Cooper and Craig Burden. Kyle has been the better player by far this season. What happens if he suddenly loses form thanks to sitting on the bench, and when it is his turn to play again, we are back to playing with two hookers that are both off form.

    After typing all that I can see an answer to my problem already, and it happened in the match this weekend. Even though the other players were allowed to start the match, most of them came off just after half time anyway, so the form player would still play half the match, whether he starts or sits on the bench..

  • Comment 24, posted at 03.09.13 12:51:05 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @woody (Comment 23) : I hear you, but that last statement makes me want to add a proviso.

    Tyler and Andre are not Super Rugby options for next year. The year after, most definitely, but they will get their senior chance in NEXT year’s Currie Cup.

  • Comment 25, posted at 03.09.13 12:51:26 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 24) : I’m not sure Coops was such a good example to use, though :) My feeling is that his form in 3 starts wasn’t great.

  • Comment 26, posted at 03.09.13 12:52:46 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 24) : BUT on the whole, you do have a very good point.

    But remember that never rotating because the incumbent is “too good/too reliable/a proven matchwinner” is Plumtree thinking. It works great until you have an injury to that player. Then you are left with no depth and only excuses about not winning because of injuries.

  • Comment 27, posted at 03.09.13 12:54:05 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 26) :

    Okay, look at Charl then. We risk that player getting discouraged now that he has to sit on the bench once again. Could he lose his form if he is not starting?

    I think the key thing in all my issues is that the players buy into the policy 100%

  • Comment 28, posted at 03.09.13 12:54:36 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 27) :

    Yes, and Plumtree thinking is not where we want to go.

    A new system is positive, it means the guys in the background are thinking about the players and are actively doing something about it.

    Whether it works, we shall have to wait and see.

  • Comment 29, posted at 03.09.13 12:55:51 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 28) : yes, exactly.

  • Comment 30, posted at 03.09.13 13:06:42 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 25) : I agree that they won’t necessarily play super rugby next year. But if we were to have a crises in the centres I would prefer they were thrown in the deep end than play somebody else out of position

  • Comment 31, posted at 03.09.13 13:20:11 by woody Reply
    Author
    woodyUnder 21 player
     
  • There is nothing wrong with rotation if it is well communicated to the players and they all know exactly where they stand. In the modern game you cant except a guy to play every game- he will get injured. Whilst results are the main focus you also have to give guys game time to prove their worth as the next best. Sometimes coaches need to take gambles.

  • Comment 32, posted at 03.09.13 13:22:24 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 28) : Bumping in here :mrgreen:

    On the Charl point, hasn’t he always played better when his position is up for grabs? As soon as someone close to or as good as Charl comes around, starts a few games, Charl is at his best (this weekend being case-in-point). It’s like he wants to outplay his teammate, not the opposition (hope that makes sense :???: )

  • Comment 33, posted at 03.09.13 13:30:56 by Die Kriek Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 33) :

    Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I spoke about exactly that yesterday, once his position is at stake, he delivers the goods.

    My point above is purely aimed at what would happen if he suddenly plays a crap 40 minutes this match, does that mean he remains on the bench once again, or does he start to try get some form back?

  • Comment 34, posted at 03.09.13 13:38:05 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • Kyle’s stint on the bench seemed to refocus him,he came on alot more hungry and played at a higher intensity than he has been lately.

  • Comment 35, posted at 03.09.13 13:39:36 by bobby 26 Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 34) : I think it’s different for each position and set of players, but in the case of Charl and Cobus, the coaches seem to have agreed a fixed rotation policy with the two players up front.

  • Comment 36, posted at 03.09.13 13:51:35 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 36) :

    Understood..

  • Comment 37, posted at 03.09.13 13:52:49 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @bobby 26 (Comment 35) : good.

  • Comment 38, posted at 03.09.13 13:58:46 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 38) : Awesome :lol:

  • Comment 39, posted at 03.09.13 14:11:24 by Die Kriek Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 39) : fantastic

  • Comment 40, posted at 03.09.13 14:18:49 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 34) : I believe it is the same for any player (person) We need pressure to improve and deliver. We have a good situation in the team competing for the 9.
    The rotation systems seems to attempt to give every player game time each week. The starter gets to play longer for 2 weeks. I believe it is good mentally and keeps them fit. Nothing worse than spending 80min or more on the bench.
    If the player has a bad game it’s okay. If he has more than one, he needs to be coached or substituted. Some days that egg can just make you look silly no matter how hard you try.
    Fred should be allowed to start IMHO. He is gaining confidence and needs to shoulder the responsibility early in the season to prepare him for a final. Even if they do rotate at 30 minutes.

  • Comment 41, posted at 03.09.13 14:46:09 by KILLER SHARK Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    KILLER SHARKTeam captain
     
  • Rayno Gerber is going to start as well, based on the pic from training

  • Comment 42, posted at 03.09.13 15:08:58 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Assuming they go ahead with the changed that have been discussed above, it looks like BMH and co are really looking at keeping the squad fresh, rotating a few players each week. Good to see, as they are not going overboard or anything.

  • Comment 43, posted at 03.09.13 16:27:16 by Here be dragons Reply

    Here be dragonsVodacom Cup player
     
  • Think Mvovo needs some time on the bench to “freshen-up”.

    Seems the disappointment of not making the Boks really knocked the guy.

  • Comment 44, posted at 03.09.13 16:41:19 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 14) : What’s wrong with playing Williams at 13? Let’s face it, his physicality could be very good there (much like Steyn during SR). I think it would also make more sense in terms of keeping Whitehead at 12 where he has a more distributing role.

    My team for this weekend would look like:
    1. Mienie
    2. Burden
    3. Herbst
    4. Marias
    5. Wentzel
    6. Daniel
    7. Deysel
    8. Botes
    9. Reinach
    10. Zeilinga
    11. Marais
    12. Whitehead
    13. Williams
    14. Maseko
    15. Ludik

    16. Cooper
    17. Gerber
    18. Hewitt
    19. Downey
    20. McLeod
    21. James
    22. Mvovo

  • Comment 45, posted at 03.09.13 17:19:28 by David12246 Reply

    ApolloCurrie Cup player
     
  • Pretty happy the way the rotations are working for the Sharks. Seems to me that the 9 off the bench has out performed the starter in each game. Probably a combination of contrasting styles playing havoc with opposition defence and a healthy dose of friendly competition. It’s certainly getting them noticed more and more.

  • Comment 46, posted at 03.09.13 17:45:55 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaosTeam captain
     
  • Only Loose Head and Hooker bothers me! Really need to sort Burden’s (and Cooper to a lesser extend) line-out work!!!!! Hope Ballie can sort Chumlee’s scrumming!!!!!

  • Comment 47, posted at 03.09.13 21:02:46 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     

Add Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.