robdylan

Loose trio rotation at last


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks on 17 Sep 2013 at 13:08
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The Sharks have persisted with pretty much the same loose trio all the way this Currie Cup (with Keegan Daniel’s replacing of Brynard Stander in week 3 the only real change to date).

That’s set to change this week, though. We confirmed yesterday that Daniel will move to number 8 against the Cheetahs to replace the rested Jacques Botes. Marcell Coetzee is likely to get a start on the open side as well, while in a third switch, Tera Mtembu should get a first campaign start on the blind side flank – this info is courtesy of East Coast Radio’s Andre Bloem.

Coach Sean Everitt has meanwhile confirmed that Tim Whitehead will play outside center this week, as Heimar Williams returns in the number 12 jersey.



57 Comments

  • Perfect i have been waiting for a tim heimar combo for long !!! Cant wait for the game now

  • Comment 1, posted at 17.09.13 13:15:37 by johnny Reply
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  • Williams and Whitehead, just what I was waiting for :cool:

  • Comment 2, posted at 17.09.13 13:16:13 by Son Of Mayhem Reply
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  • I wonder if that means Deysel and Downey on the bench or does Downey fall out? And they may as well replace Van Tonder on the bench too as they not using him. So Ludick will replace him. Wonder what the front row will look like.

  • Comment 3, posted at 17.09.13 13:24:07 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Yay at last. I’ve been dying to see how Heimar and Tim combine!

  • Comment 4, posted at 17.09.13 13:32:03 by [email protected] Reply

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  • This should make for an interesting game.

  • Comment 5, posted at 17.09.13 13:47:51 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 5) : I don’t care if it’s boring as hell, so long as we win :)

  • Comment 6, posted at 17.09.13 13:57:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • Still no chance given to Franna, he will be off soon at this rate…

  • Comment 7, posted at 17.09.13 14:01:38 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 7) : terrific player, but at the expense of who?

  • Comment 8, posted at 17.09.13 14:13:00 by Ludz Reply

    LudzSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 7) : Im surprised he hasnt gone already. Unless nobody else interested. He is way down the pecking order and with u21s starting to come through perhaps he needs to look elsewhere.

  • Comment 9, posted at 17.09.13 14:26:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Great now non of the loose trio is in position!!!!! Terra is an 8 playing 7, Marcell is a 7 playing 4 and Keegan is a 6 playing 8?!?!?!?! Great selection!!!!! Why not pick Deysel at 5?!?!?!?!

  • Comment 10, posted at 17.09.13 14:30:06 by JD Reply
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  • @Grasshopper (Comment 7) :
    @SheldonK (Comment 9) :

    Who is Franna?

  • Comment 11, posted at 17.09.13 14:38:06 by John Galt Reply

    John GaltCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JD (Comment 10) : Got to disagree KD is not a traditional 6 – he is an unorthodox 8. Botes for example is much more effective at spoiling and stealing ball than Keegan

  • Comment 12, posted at 17.09.13 14:51:59 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 10) : Marcell definitely isn’t playing 4…

  • Comment 13, posted at 17.09.13 15:01:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • @John Galt (Comment 11) : Francois Kleinhans

  • Comment 14, posted at 17.09.13 15:02:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 14) :
    Ah thanks.
    Yes he’s been unlucky.
    Is Stander a blindsider or opensider. He plays like a 7 even though the Sharks have picked him at 6 this year.

  • Comment 15, posted at 17.09.13 15:12:22 by John Galt Reply

    John GaltCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 14) : U agree with my reckoning that he is behind Alberts,Deysel,Botes,Daniel,Coetzee,Mthembu, Downey,Kankowski?

  • Comment 16, posted at 17.09.13 15:15:51 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 16) :
    He’s a 6 isn’t he?

    So essentially he’d be behind Botes, Daniel and Downey.
    At this stage.

  • Comment 17, posted at 17.09.13 15:23:50 by John Galt Reply

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  • @John Galt (Comment 17) : and Marcell

  • Comment 18, posted at 17.09.13 15:24:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 18) :
    But of course.

    He certainly is up against it to get game time.

  • Comment 19, posted at 17.09.13 15:30:38 by John Galt Reply

    John GaltCurrie Cup player
     
  • Looking forward to the centre combination. If we want to win this Currie Cup, we need Louis Ludik at 15, still the best fullback in the country in my opinion. (Nothing against SP Marais). Still think we need Jean Deysel in the starting 15 with either Mthembu or Botes on the bench. The best props available is still up for debate. Is it Reinach’s turn to start at scrummie and Fred to start at flyhalf?

  • Comment 20, posted at 17.09.13 15:32:55 by Bite me Reply

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  • @Bite me (Comment 20) : I think we’re looking at Fred and Cobus this week

  • Comment 21, posted at 17.09.13 15:49:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 6) : That’s why I was careful to use the term ‘interesting’ as opposed to ‘entertaining’. I’m very interested in how both the loose trio and midfield are going to function. We have very hard-working but mobile flankers, the best linking 8 in the Currie Cup and two centres that should provide our wings with some decent ball (and perhaps a little more space to work with).

    I’m starting to suspect what the coaches intended strategy might be against the Cheetahs and I’m very interested in seeing whether these combinations will result in some running rugga this weekend.

  • Comment 22, posted at 17.09.13 15:58:00 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Bite me (Comment 20) : @robdylan (Comment 21) : Id love to see Reinach,Fred combo. With Williams and Whitehead. Wings Maseko and Sp Marais. Ludick back to 15. Then we starting to talk.

  • Comment 23, posted at 17.09.13 15:59:28 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 23) : you’ll get your 9,10,12 and 13

    I think we’ll see Mvovo 11, Marais 14 and Ngdunane 15 this week

  • Comment 24, posted at 17.09.13 16:23:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • To be honest, I agree with previous comments that Daniel should be at 6 with Mtembu at and and Coetzee at 7.

    When it comes to Super Rugby, isn’t Botes retiring? If yes, then for opensides I reckon Kleinhans would be behind Daniel, Coetzee, and perhaps Downey. To be honest, when he was given a CC shot last year, he didn’t really impress too much.

    When it comes to the centre combination, am I the only one who would prefer Whitehead at 12 with Williams outside? Whitehead has always been better in the distributing role and with Williams’ hard running style (and greater speed?), 13 could be more his style.

  • Comment 25, posted at 17.09.13 16:25:49 by David12246 Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 24) : U probably right if Odwa is back in selection frame. I think Mvovo needs just a week off to rejuvenate and also show his spot isnt secure. Odders at 15 with Maseko and Marais as a back 3 id be happy with. Rugby these days is a 22man game so if we can have McCloed,Butch,Ludick to come off the bench with Deysel etc I wont complain.

  • Comment 26, posted at 17.09.13 16:26:03 by SheldonK Reply

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  • To sum up, the team I would pick:

    1. Chadwick
    2. Cooper
    3. Herbst
    4. Hewitt
    5. du Toit
    6. Daniel (c)
    7. Coetzee
    8. Mtembu
    9. Reinach
    10. Zeilinga
    11. Marais
    12. Whitehead
    13. Williams
    14. Maseko
    15. Ludik

    16. Hadebe
    17. Mienie
    18. Marais
    19. Deysel
    20. McLeod
    21. James
    22. Mvovo

  • Comment 27, posted at 17.09.13 16:29:27 by David12246 Reply

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  • @David12246 (Comment 27) : goeie span. lekker sterk plaasvervanger bank

  • Comment 28, posted at 17.09.13 16:45:40 by DBOY Reply

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  • Hmmm seems to me people on this site consider weight before they consider how effective they are at certain roles; Keegan Daniel has never been a devastating open side flank but has set Super Rugby alight at 8.

    In my opinion he is best suited to 8 because of his linking skills with backs and his ability to create opportunities. He will be wasted if he has to spend his time at the bottom of every ruck .From personal experience I can tell you that an open-side flank spends the majority of the game looking up from the bottom of Rucks and seldom will be involved in counter attacks unless he managed to pilfer a ball and then wrestle his way free from contact.

    Another point to consider ;our scrums have battled recently ,so why play Daniel, a light weigh, directly behind a prop?

  • Comment 29, posted at 17.09.13 17:36:27 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 29) : @David12246 (Comment 27) : Good team selection,give the youngsters a chance and back them,that’s what CC is all about,as for KD,just cause Dumtree in his cluelessness put him at 8 at the expense of a supreme 8,Kanko,does not make him an 8′s backside(Saffix).

  • Comment 30, posted at 17.09.13 17:57:59 by benji Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 29) : I agree. KD strength is his linking and creating play. Just because he does not have the bulk to bash it up like a Vermeulen, does not mean he does not excel at 8 at S15 level. He unfortunately does not have the size to play 8 at test level though.

  • Comment 31, posted at 17.09.13 18:32:32 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 31) :I must say I agree .In 2012 I may have argued differently ,but certainly not test match quality the way he has been playing since that final. Also you cant pick a player that vanishes in tight games.

  • Comment 32, posted at 17.09.13 19:43:31 by Talent Reply
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  • Kleynheins will appear somewhere else to haunt the Sharks. I mean who is Downey? Botes is ancient and Daniel is erratic. Anyway, he just needed a chance like they gave Fred and Kyle…he played in the same Glenwood side as them in school.

  • Comment 33, posted at 17.09.13 21:04:59 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 33) : And once again good young talent ignored to allow old age pensioners the opportunity to play out of position,same old same old

  • Comment 34, posted at 17.09.13 22:21:03 by benji Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 31) : Have to ask what the difference is between Super 15 and test rugby?

  • Comment 35, posted at 17.09.13 22:24:02 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 35) : For one thing the Boks under HM play a different pattern to the Sharks S15 team. He prefer huge loose forwards like Vermeulen and Alberts with the bulk to smash it over the advantage line. KD even at his best will just not fit into that pattern.

    KD’s weakness is also his turnover rate – which is something you can get away with more at S15 than at test level.

    However in the 2012 S15 KD IMHO was probably overall the best South African 8 on show – even his stats showed that (except for his tendency to turnover the ball). Even when he played at 6 with Kanko at 8, he still played as a second 8 rather than a more orthodox 6 like Brussow, Stegman and Louw.

  • Comment 36, posted at 18.09.13 11:30:58 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Grasshopper (Comment 33) : yeah – and let’s pick the other 12 okes for the Sharks too, while we’re at it.

  • Comment 37, posted at 18.09.13 11:36:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 34) : you know mate, there are few things that irk me quite as much as mindless, thoughtless, negativity.

    Do you actually THINK before you post this kak, or is it just an opportunity to vent whatever comes into your head?

    Or maybe you’re a master at the pisstake and I just haven’t been smart enough to spot it yet. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 38, posted at 18.09.13 11:40:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • Challenge to the band-wagoners out there… please list one verifiable thing that Francois Kleinhans has done (since school) that would justify his selection ahead of Keegan Daniel or Jacques Botes.

    Just one.

  • Comment 39, posted at 18.09.13 11:41:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • When you’re done scratching your head about that one, repeat the exercise to justify why he should be selected ahead of Marcell Coetzee or Brynard Stander.

  • Comment 40, posted at 18.09.13 11:42:39 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 39) : He hasnt made 1 error in Super rugby! Pick him! haha

  • Comment 41, posted at 18.09.13 11:56:56 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 41) : haha – yes. Also he has better hair then either of them.

  • Comment 42, posted at 18.09.13 11:58:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : Now thats 2 reasons…we building quite a case here.

  • Comment 43, posted at 18.09.13 11:58:42 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 43) : ag look – I don’t really want to get into slating Francois. He’s a very promising young player and a very nice young man to boot. It’s just this biased school-inspired shit that gets to me.

    Fact is, ANY young loose forward at the Sharks is going to struggle for game time given what we’ve got available. And anyone who really thinks that Botes or Daniel don’t deserve their spots is just crazy.

  • Comment 44, posted at 18.09.13 12:05:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : No i fully get what you mean. When Kleinhans plays club rugby you can see how good he actually is. But the gap between club and the Sharks is massive. I cant for the life of me remember his name at the moment but there was a very good 6 that played Sharks vodacom cup and for Rovers. He signed for the Pumas I think. Any news on him? Havnt seen him playing. And people must realise that not every junior developed by a union will play for them as there just isnt space. On a sad note- did you see Rory Kockett qualidfies for France next year! The new Morgan Parra for France?

  • Comment 45, posted at 18.09.13 12:39:13 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan: I agree with you that Botes and Daniels deserve their spots, I just feel that maybe that could give Franna another chance in Downey’s place because he is a better player than what he showcased last year when he got a chance…He played with kolisi and arno botha for junior boks if i’m not mistaken so surely that is something worth mentioning after school??

  • Comment 46, posted at 18.09.13 12:48:20 by Stripes111 Reply

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  • @Stripes111 (Comment 46) : Hi Stripes.

    Yes, I think you’re right. Franna did do very well for the junior Boks, so it is unfair to say he’s done nothing since school. I do feel, though, that Stander has taken his chances better so far at senior level – what’s more, Stander is seen as a utility option at 6 and 7 (as is Downey) whereas Franna is really more an out-and-out 6. But even so, his ground skills aren’t great and he’s prone to giving away penalties.

  • Comment 47, posted at 18.09.13 12:55:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) : Exposure to a higher level brings out true potential.

    I think people are more annoyed that, we as fans, don’t seem to see what development plans are in place for junior players, so therefore assume they are ignored or not considered.

    I do feel though that we are a bit conservative with giving juniors exposure ,and is why we find ourselves in the shit when injuries pile up.

  • Comment 48, posted at 18.09.13 13:10:40 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 48) : yes, under Plumtree. You can’t ignore all the fantastic work that the new coaches are doing in this area simply because one guy (who’s like 9th choice) isn’t getting a run.

  • Comment 49, posted at 18.09.13 13:32:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • No old school bias at all, Robbie Harris and Marne Coetzee are average at best. Marne got pommeled at the junior World Cup. However, Cooper, Zeilanga and Franna are class. I think the same for Warren Whiteley where ever he is. Same for Shaun Adendorff, big potential. John Roy Jenkinson on the other hand who played briefly for the Cheetahs is too fat and slow, needs a few months in the gym…

  • Comment 50, posted at 18.09.13 16:26:32 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 50) : good to know that you only rate 80% of Glenwood’s players, rather than all 100% :)

  • Comment 51, posted at 18.09.13 16:41:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 13) : ag hell sorry should have been 6 not 4.

  • Comment 52, posted at 18.09.13 17:29:44 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 52) : :) I know.

    I attacked the easiest bit to attack.

  • Comment 53, posted at 18.09.13 17:40:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 53) : Still sticking to what I said, don’t think Keegan is a super rugby 8 and thus he should play 6.

  • Comment 54, posted at 18.09.13 17:50:39 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 54) : I agree with you.

    My preference is not to play the two in the same trio.

    But if we do, I want Keegan at 8 and Botes at 6

  • Comment 55, posted at 18.09.13 18:02:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 55) : in your view why do you think Mtembu is not given a chance and backed at 8 ?

  • Comment 56, posted at 18.09.13 18:09:34 by benji Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 55) : To be honest i prefer Botes at 8 as it adds stability to the scrum, Keegan has tended to try do too much of late from the back of the scrum and has knocked on and turned over the ball a lot. But other than scumtime does it really matter who wears 6,7 or 8? What matters is the roles each is asked to perform by the coach. So does the number on the back really matter?

  • Comment 57, posted at 19.09.13 07:58:39 by SheldonK Reply

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