Richard Ferguson

Who is playing for a Bok spot?


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :Currie Cup, End of Year Tour, Original Content, Sharks, Springboks, WP on 25 Oct 2013 at 09:02
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The Currie Cup Final is the showpiece this weekend, but there will be a few players with their minds on Monday night’s Springbok squad announcement, to go on the End of year Tour.

Even though there are a few Springboks in action anyway, even the Springbok captain, there will be some player who would want to put in an extra special performance to sway selection in their favour. We can start with the most obvious of all, being Deon Fourie.

Fourie has led Western Province with intent in this season, following in the lead from the front captaincy, having probably had his best Currie Cup season. This is quite a statement after the player was named the 2012 Currie Cup Player of the Year. He is surely in line for that award again this year, and that type of consistency is sure to make Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer sit up and take notice.

There is a slight snag in Fourie’s Springbok chances – Fourie is actually a hooker, and the Springboks already have two world class hookers to juggle. And to be fair, Fourie isn’t exactly the greatest hooker out there. I do not even think Fourie is the best hooker in the Cape, but he sure is one hell of a loose forward. This is the position is which he has shown the greatest form and should be the position in which he targets to represent his country. The Springboks have a wealth of loose forwards to choose from, with Francois Louw currently cemented in the six jersey. That would leave Fourie as a second choice behind him, should he be selected for this tour (which I would expect him to be). In the unlikely event of Louw not making it for the tour, for whatever reason, Fourie is right up there as a specialist breakdowner. Another good performance, both in play and in leadership, would see his shares with Meyer rise, unless Meyer already has Arno Botha lined up to go on tour.

Staying with the home team, there are two more players I think should be in line for Springbok selection, starting with hooker Scarra Ntubeni. Now, I am not a fan of giving a player a cap simply for having a good Currie Cup season, but in this case, I think he is one for the future. He is an agile hooker, much like Craig Burden, but he actually gets the hooker’s job done as well, in terms of scrumming and getting the line-outs right. And for those that want to tell me he is too small for the scrums, think back two weeks ago when he was in the middle of a dominant Western Province front row that put the Springbok front row on the back foot.

The big question is, can the Springboks afford to take both Deon Fourie and Scarra Ntubeni on tour, or rather, is it necessary? Should Fourie make the tour party, the Boks, by default, already have a third hooker on tour, so do they really have the need for another?

The final Western Province player having a go at Springbok selection is Demetri Catrakilis. The Greek won the Currie Cup for Western Province last year, and had a great run in Super Rugby where he showed class in a team that was struggling all season. Back in Western Province colours for the latter part of the Currie Cup season, he has shown that class again, not only in his kicking abilities, but as a general. The battle between the two flyhalves might just be the reason Meyer only wants to select his team on Monday. In my mind, there are four flyhalves able to go on tour: Morne Steyn, Pat Lambie, Johan Goosen and Demetri Catrakilis. Not all of them can go, and we know Meyer’s love for Goosen will lean towards him going along. Does that rule out Catrakilis or only force Lambie to go as a fullback? Some interesting choices to be made.

On the Pat Lambie dilemma, he is one of the Sharks that is sure to go on tour, but is set to get a raw deal yet again. Lambie got about 30 minutes of game time during the Rugby Championship, and this showed in his rustiness when he eventually got back to the Sharks. Now that he has had a few minutes on the park, he is slowly starting to look like the player we all know he can be. Does that mean I think he should start at flyhalf for the Springboks? No. Do I think he deserves a run at flyhalf for the second half? Yes. Whether he actually gets into the match 22 as a flyhalf remains to be seen.

I was going to complete my article by discussing Jean Deysel’s chances of making the tour after his solid Currie Cup campaign, but he is injured for the final, and we are not sure the extent of the injury. Deysel has been the form loose forward for the Sharks this season, again, we are seeing a player get back into the form that we saw prior to the injuries that ruined many a season for him. Should he make it into the Springbok squad based on that? I don’t know. I would want to see an extended period of consistent form before I put him into the Green and Gold jersey, but then again, if Arno Botha is primed to tour after last playing in the June Internationals, then Deysel can just as well tour!

We can go on for hours discussing each player’s chances, but I think I have touched on the important ones. If you feel I have missed anybody, please do not hold back in the comments below.



74 Comments

  • Aplon,de jongh deserve to be there but with f.steyn back and Meyers preferance for krusty and basson it looks unlikely

  • Comment 1, posted at 25.10.13 09:12:18 by Bok-Clyde-Kiwi Reply
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  • Demetri Catrakilis all the way. He is the only guy in SA rugby that will manage the Johnny Wilkinson drop goal in the WC final last 10 secs.

  • Comment 2, posted at 25.10.13 09:16:57 by Uli Reply
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  • Think A strong performance by Frans Steyn should see him go on tour. If he proves his fitness is there a better option at inside center behind Jean? Consider that we really need a suitable backup for Jean that fits HMs team. In other words big strong defender who can break the gain line.

  • Comment 3, posted at 25.10.13 09:17:35 by gregkaos Reply
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  • I think Aplon should be there and possibly Frans Steyn (as fullback).

    de Jongh doesn’t even make the run on WP team so I doubt he’ll tour.

  • Comment 4, posted at 25.10.13 09:18:11 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Deon Fourie would be a good backup to Flo, not sure the slow conditions in the north will suit Fourie though.

  • Comment 5, posted at 25.10.13 09:20:22 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Damian De Allende must be pushing for a bok place

  • Comment 6, posted at 25.10.13 09:24:27 by woody Reply
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  • Elephant in the room..

    What about Schalk Burger?

  • Comment 7, posted at 25.10.13 09:24:28 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 7) : Too soon I think, but you never know.

  • Comment 8, posted at 25.10.13 09:27:03 by Pokkel Reply
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  • And PSDT will want to show Heyneke that he can be entrusted with the green and gold #5 jersey

  • Comment 9, posted at 25.10.13 09:32:52 by woody Reply
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  • Marcel Coetzee and Siya Kolisi are already earmarked as Louw’s replacements, so there’s no chance that Fourie will make it…. It’s also easy to forget that the bok third choice hooker had his best SR season to date. Which leaves Lambie vs Demetri because everyone knows HM will pick Goosen despite the fact he’s only played 60 minutes of CC rugby. The bigger question is whether Fat Frans will make the squad ahead of project Jan or will he be picked at fullback? And if Frans is picked as a fullback, Gio has no chance in hell!

  • Comment 10, posted at 25.10.13 09:35:51 by Mpandla Reply

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  • My concern in the Bok squad (not mentioning the obvious useless fullback holding the position at the moment) is outside centre. Although JJ has played some good ruggas, I don’t think he is the solution. Not knowing what form Jacque Fourie will be in when we get him back next year, I do hope that Frans Steyn will impress on Saturday. Besides them, the only real contender will most likely be Ebersohn, which again mostly plays inside centre. What will happen if JdV breaks down, which with the amount of rugby he is playing seems more likely than not. Juan de Jongh is not an international midfield player in my opinion, good provincial player though. Maybe de Allende can book a spot with a huge performance this weekend which I hope will not happen being the Shark supported I am.

  • Comment 11, posted at 25.10.13 09:37:39 by Bite me Reply

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  • HM has already picked his squad I reckon.

    Regardless of who plays well for this game, the squad would have been chosen a few weeks ago.

  • Comment 12, posted at 25.10.13 10:02:43 by John Galt Reply

    John GaltCurrie Cup player
     
  • I’m not sure how all these players would fit into the Springbok squad, when you consider the following players likely to return: Schalk Burger, JP Pietersen, Jacques Fourie, Frans Steyn. I also think Francois Hougaard is over his injury, but I don’t expect him to walk straight into the Bok squad. Then you throw in the young bucks that are probably the future of Bok rugby – Arno Botha and PSDT. I’ll be interested to see what kind of team Meyer chooses because I think some of his players will need to be managed in terms of exhaustion.

    I think we desperately need new props at Bok level, so I’m looking for big games from Kitschoff and Herbst.

    Does the tour fall inside the international window? If not, will Meyer be able to select Gurthro, Louw and the rest of the foreign legion?

  • Comment 13, posted at 25.10.13 10:08:59 by josefgremlin Reply

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  • @josefgremlin (Comment 13) :

    The rest of the world is also on tour, so it is in the International window.

    Whether he actually selects his overseas players remains to be seen.

  • Comment 14, posted at 25.10.13 10:21:24 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 7) : Thats a beeg fokken elephant! Id take Schalk over Arno Botha any day

  • Comment 15, posted at 25.10.13 10:33:26 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Marnitz Boshoff as a bolter for Bok fullback?

  • Comment 16, posted at 25.10.13 10:46:07 by vanmartin Reply
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  • My gast will be well and truly flabbered if Fourie makes it.

  • Comment 17, posted at 25.10.13 10:56:34 by McLovin Reply

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  • @McLovin (Comment 17) : Same here.

    If Heyneke Meyer was going to pick a player like Fourie, I think Brussouw would at least have gotten close to selection, which he never did.

  • Comment 18, posted at 25.10.13 11:05:46 by Letgo Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 16) :
    Good call, he’s looked excellent. To bad we only have the Currie Cup to look at for his form. Considering how thin we are at 15, it might be a good option though.

  • Comment 19, posted at 25.10.13 11:06:47 by Letgo Reply
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  • Johan Sadie to captain the Boks on the EOYT.

  • Comment 20, posted at 25.10.13 11:14:26 by Big Fish Reply
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  • We’re coming!!!

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1000609_10151662496530544_1541888768_n.jpg

  • Comment 21, posted at 25.10.13 11:20:40 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 20) :

    And take over JP du Plessis’ role??

    I think not! :mrgreen: :twisted:

  • Comment 22, posted at 25.10.13 11:23:10 by wpw Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 22) : Well played sir :grin:

  • Comment 23, posted at 25.10.13 11:24:09 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 22) :
    :lol:

  • Comment 24, posted at 25.10.13 11:28:32 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Can’t believe how short people’s memories are around here. Fred Zeilinga to get a ten minute cameo and sew up the Bok starting flyhalf spot!

  • Comment 25, posted at 25.10.13 11:55:58 by Culling Song Reply
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  • Who knows what Heyneke Meyer will do. Probably pick the fans favorite xv plus one or two Bulls players.

  • Comment 26, posted at 25.10.13 11:57:03 by Talent Reply
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  • I for one thing that HM needs to be told the riot act. The guys who left for overseas need to be excluded for the end of year tour to build depth and see whom you can use in place of them for the championship. Else what is the point of players remaining in South Africa?

  • Comment 27, posted at 25.10.13 12:15:03 by Dunx Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 7) : And by saying you dont think Lambie should start at 10 for the Boks, who do you think should??

  • Comment 28, posted at 25.10.13 12:20:39 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 28) :

    Morne Steyn.

    Steyn has been at the helm during one of the more successful Springbok seasons in a long time, only losing to the All Blacks home and away..

  • Comment 29, posted at 25.10.13 12:23:14 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 29) : My preferred Bok backline for the tour: 9.Vermaak 10. M Steyn 11. Engelbrecht 12. Serfontein 13. DeVilliers 14. Le Roux 15. Lambie, with reserves 21. Pienaar 22. F Steyn 23. Aplon

  • Comment 30, posted at 25.10.13 12:45:26 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 30) :

    That’s a decent backline that.. But I think Meyer would alter it to keep Serfontein on the bench and play Fransie and Jean in midfield.

    I wish Meyer would see Engelbrecht as a wing again, but it is unlikely that he would leave Habana out..

  • Comment 31, posted at 25.10.13 12:46:59 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 29) : Big time disagreement there man. We all have our opinions but here is mine.

    I truly believe that Morne Steyn and Zane Kirchner (and NO Im no Bull basher) are a massive handbrake to the progress of Springbok rugby. And that view is widely held down here (Aus and NZ) as I get to hear there reviews more than you guys. The goal is to select complete players in each position – thats the ultimate goal. Regardless of what some think, Morne does not take the ball to the line and therefore DOES NOT offer a threat on attack.

    And if you review our performances this year – the attack has run off our scrummy.
    - du Preez in the home games
    - Pienaar in Brissy and Soweto (admittedly poor in the other games)

    Thoughts??

  • Comment 32, posted at 25.10.13 12:47:32 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 32) :

    Fair enough, a lot of people here do not like Steyn either..

    I understand the idea of a complete player, I really do, and it would be great to have a Aaron Cruden type player that can attack the line with ease, while still being able to fall back on his kicking game.

    The thing is, no other flyhalf in South Africa is MORE complete than Steyn. Yes he may not run the ball that often, but the way he plays Heyneke Meyer’s game plan in terms of kicking and gaining possession, while also taking into consideration his goal kicking, there is no equal at this stage.

    Many would call for Lambie here, but I disagree. Yes Lambie is fantastic at taking the ball up and is a wonderful attacking player, that cannot be your only attribute, not in a Springbok jersey.

    As for others, I would like to see Demetri Catrakilis get a run in Super Rugby with the Stormers. He has done well in two Currie Cups now, but you cannot really assess his Super Rugby stint with the King, he was playing behind a reversing pack and had absolutely no support.

    As for Johan Goosen, he needs to wrap his glass knees in bubble wrap and hope he gets some proper ones for Christmas. If he can play most of the Super Rugby season, he is likely to get in the team ahead of anybody else.

  • Comment 33, posted at 25.10.13 12:53:19 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • I’m not too sure what the Deon Fourie hooker/flank issue is, to be completely honest.

    If he was selected for the Boks he’d be selected as an opensider, who could potentially cover hooker if there was an injury. Thats a net positive in my book as it frees up a spot on the bench that would be occupied by a hooker.

    The fact that he has played two positions is a red herring and largely irrelevant.
    Schalk Burger, Francois Hougaard, Jean de Villiers, Patrick Lambie, Willie Meyer, Willem Alberts, Gio Aplon are all current players who’ve been shifted around.
    Going back in time there have been loads more – Danie Roussouw, Mark Andrews, Percy Montgomery, John Smit, Pierre Spies.

    And these are only the Springboks and I don’t even count tightheads that have become looseheads etc.

  • Comment 34, posted at 25.10.13 13:02:21 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 33) :

    The thing is, no other flyhalf in South Africa is MORE complete than Steyn. Yes he may not run the ball that often, but the way he plays Heyneke Meyer’s game plan in terms of kicking and gaining possession, while also taking into consideration his goal kicking, there is no equal at this stage.

    That doesnt make him a complete player; it makes him a Naas Botha wannabe.

  • Comment 35, posted at 25.10.13 13:03:23 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @pienaar111 (Comment 32) : I think we need to remember the difference is that the Bok game plan revolves around the forwards not the backline like in NZ or OZ. The All Blacks and OZ select ball players in pretty much every position in the belief that they will create opportunities to score tries and that will lead to a win eventhough that approach has a high error risk. So whilst the All Blacks make few errors and thus win games, the Ozzies are prone to errors and thus dont have the same results. The Boks view it differently. They believe the less risks they take the few chances the opposition has to capitalise on those mistakes and the Boks thereby hope to take advantage of their opposition trying things they shouldnt under pressure and thus giving away penalties and the odd try scoring chance. So the Boks need a 10 or 15 that can kick points. Because without that they will lose games.

  • Comment 36, posted at 25.10.13 13:04:12 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 35) :

    I didn’t say it made him a complete player..

    If the requirement is to be a complete flyhalf to represent the Springboks, we wouldn’t have a flyhalf in the team..

  • Comment 37, posted at 25.10.13 13:05:17 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 35) : Im no avid Steyn fan but nobody can deny that Steyn has won the Boks games with his kicking. So if you didnt celebrate those wins then fair enough criticise the guy. But if you celebrated with the rest of the country i dont think any of us have room to complain.

  • Comment 38, posted at 25.10.13 13:07:55 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 35) : @SheldonK (Comment 36) : @Richard Ferguson (Comment 37) : These arguments are all futile. Fred Zeilinga is going to own that 10 jersey!

  • Comment 39, posted at 25.10.13 13:09:21 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 39) : you are out of your mind. I heard Earl Rose is back in training and looking fit…he needs his chance! With Earl the Pearl at 10, Jorrie Muller and JP Nel outside him. Hell bring on the Scottish, Welsh and French

  • Comment 40, posted at 25.10.13 13:12:46 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Culling Song (Comment 39) :

    FFFF!!!

    Fred For Future Flyhalf!!!

  • Comment 41, posted at 25.10.13 13:12:51 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • With less than 20 games left before the next worldcup throwing away ur flyhalf for a youngster is madness and will not happen!!! That said Demitri looks great, aka matchwinner. A Botha is the next nr8 after vermeulen, if he gets injured before wc do we really wonna fall back to spies? Yes we need more props, but facing wales and france with new props…..no ways! Would love to see pieter-steff and lood de jager on tour.

  • Comment 42, posted at 25.10.13 13:20:57 by KingsArmy Reply

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  • We all know j fourie is a good senter, think jj should play more, also jan. We can’t put all our eggs in one basket and wait for fourie. De allende is looling also good.

  • Comment 43, posted at 25.10.13 13:27:00 by KingsArmy Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 33) : Where are Lambie’s weaknesses though??

    - Best defensive 10 in SA no doubt
    - of the best attacking 10′s (with Goosen and Jantjies when the latter is on form)
    - his career goal avg is 77% (take into account he was not prolific in this regard in his first 2 seasons, making him an 80% man now)
    - has clearly demonstrated BMT in pressure games.
    - very good tactical kicker

    And with regard to tactical kicking, which NO DOUBT is essential at 10. In the pressure games Lambie, has played exceptionally in that regard…outplaying a certain Morne Steyn on both occasions (’10 and ’12 semis) with both being in wet conditions – would you agree??

  • Comment 44, posted at 25.10.13 13:36:43 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 36) : Agree and disagree…The Aussies are woeful tactically. ie. run everything from everywhere and look where it got them this year??

    I disagree that the ABs plan revolves around their backs.

    The ABs play as close to a complete game as possible at the moment (or try to anyway). Their forwards (loosies in particular) are always scoring tries or constantly involved in the build up. – This is my hope for SA rugby. Have forwards with skill and mongrel, partnered with backs that can score from anywhere while still displaying great vision tactically!!

  • Comment 45, posted at 25.10.13 13:40:43 by pienaar111 Reply

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  • @pienaar111 (Comment 44) :

    Has Lambie been in any sort of form this season so far? He has been struggling to find his 2012 form all year.

    Look, I am not saying Lambie is kak, not by a long shot. But if you ask me which is better for the Springboks at this stage, it is Morne Steyn.

    I personally feel more comfortable with Steyn at flyhalf than I would with Lambie in the same position. This is based purely in the form shown in the current year.

    Yes Lambie is good on defence, and can attack like no other flyhalf in the country BUT:

    - how many points has Lambie left on the field just in his last few Currie Cup games? It is those points that could just as well have put South Africa in a loss position against Argentina.

    - How many times does Lambie not kick the ball out when we try line up an attacking line-out. I have seen it in Super Rugby and in the Currie Cup. That is throwing away good attacking possession.

    You have to kind of agree that Morne has been exceptional in the tests this year? Yes we cannot say whether Lambie would have done any better, but we cannot with any surety say that he wouldn’t have done any worse..

    As I said in the article, I wouldn’t simply drop Morne Steyn after the season he has had, I would still play him and then play whoever else for at least the last 30 minutes in a match.

  • Comment 46, posted at 25.10.13 13:44:46 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @pienaar111 (Comment 45) :

    I know that reply was not for me, but can I just add something.

    I am not sure if you saw the stats, but it was interesting for me to note that the All Blacks kicked away more ball than the Springboks did in the Rugby Championship this year. Amazing that we blast our players for kicking away the ball, which I do just as much as anybody else, yet it seems to work for the All Blacks.

    We can really learn plenty from the way they approach each game and each opposition.

  • Comment 47, posted at 25.10.13 13:47:02 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @pienaar111 (Comment 45) : Until our franchises start playing rugby and picking players liek the Cheetahs do nothing is going to change. If we continue to pick big ball carriers to break the advantage line rather than guys who make passes to break the advantage line then SA backlines will always play second fiddle to the forwards. I dotn think the Boks should play like the All BLacks- it wud be boring if everyone played the same. I just think slight tweaks to the Bok gameplan is needed. Get forwards running off our flyhalf instead on taking channel 1 crash ball. This will give the team 2 avenues of attack-shot to our big forwards or in depth to our backs. And if opposition doesnt get its match ups correct they will have theor backs tackling our big forwards and our backs running against their forwards. Simple right? hahaha

  • Comment 48, posted at 25.10.13 13:49:28 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 47) : Ah yes they kick BUT their kicks are different. They use chips and grubbers a lot and wen they do kick long they kick for the ball to land on the grass as they believe this gives them the best chance to regain possession rather than the lottery of up and unders

  • Comment 49, posted at 25.10.13 13:53:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 46) : Morne is generally reliable kicking to poles (except for last year), and that is about it. His tactical kicking is no better than any of the others. His decision making under pressure is too slow – he had gaps opening up in the RC, but due to indecision had the defenders closing those very quickly. The opposition knows when he is going to pass and when he is going to kick.

    I would take any of Zeus, Lambie or Goosen (if he can last) ahead of him.

    Problem is he is the one player HM refuses to sub – giving his understudy a bit of time at full back.

  • Comment 50, posted at 25.10.13 13:54:10 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) : They were actually very successful with up and unders this year. Ben Smith reclaimed a couple from our fragile back 3.

    On top of it Cruden probably produced the best kickoffs of all the flyhalves on display.

    The thing is their flyhalves mix up the kicking very well.

  • Comment 51, posted at 25.10.13 13:56:37 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • I definitely agree he has been off form this year. (IN A TERRIBLE TEAM) and yet his kicking won many games for the terrible Sharks. Fast forward 3 months and he must return to kicking proficiently??

    And I actually dont think Morne was excellent in the tests this year either. Again he was solid (that I would certainly agree with), but not great. And plus his turnstyle efforts at Ellis Park gifted 2 tries if not mistaken?

    Form should certainly play a role, which Lambie lacked in Super Rugby for sure (though he was never poor apart from the Bulls game). How then did Morne hang on to his spot last year when he was woeful the entire season?? – that you cant deny (again a Springbok mindset in terms of selection)

    But yeah we have our opinions and I reckon we wont agree until/if Lambie does get a fair go and prove 1 of us wrong…

    But 1 last thing…I have only seen 1 Bok 10 stand up and play well against an absolutely dominant AB pack!! It happened in Wellington in 2011 – that takes serious talent and BMT

  • Comment 52, posted at 25.10.13 13:59:44 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 51) : It was more the exception than the norm with their kicking though. And if the Boks could actually catch a kick off or up and under I can guarantee that tactic of theirs would be shelved very quickly.

  • Comment 53, posted at 25.10.13 14:01:48 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @pienaar111 (Comment 52) :

    Yes, Morne has had his own slump and somehow managed to stay in the team. Look what happened in that year, we were rubbish and drew with Argentina!!!

    I hear you, I am by no means a Morne Steyn fan. Yes he is one dimensional and would not make any other top tier nation’s bench, but my argument is that he is probably the best SA has (the proven best, without throwing a youngster in there).

    I want Lambie to play at ten for the Springboks, I really do, I just cannot say that he deserves that at this stage. I am looking forward to Lambie playing some good rugby in Super Rugby again, and that way forcing his way into the Bok team.

    Should Steyn not be available for the tour though, I would give Lambie a full go and see if he can perform consistently. But then again, in Northern Hemsiphere rugby, will Lambie be able to play his natural game?

    So many questions..

  • Comment 54, posted at 25.10.13 14:05:20 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 47) : I like how we started up THE GREAT DEBATE hahaha.

    And ja Im fully aware of their kicking stats and in fact it highlights 1 of my points.

    I dont want Boks to run everything. THats not what I mean by more attacking. Good tactical kicking, and not simply kicking the ball without a good plan, is absolutely essential at test level.

    But the fact that they kick more and get more from it proves that their kickers kick better tactically than ours?? – Morne, Kirchner, etc…

    Would you agree with that??

  • Comment 55, posted at 25.10.13 14:05:51 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • Carter is the best flyhalf in the world, but steyn is the best tactical kicker in the world, and that’s what u need to win a worldcup. The rest of sa nr10′s are fighting for 2nd place. Right who do we want to sit on the bench at the worldcup…..

  • Comment 56, posted at 25.10.13 14:06:08 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 55) :

    Fully agree with that..

    They play a smart kicking game, we simply kick because there is no plan in place to run the ball, unless it is a turnover..

  • Comment 57, posted at 25.10.13 14:09:50 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • For me, these are the candidates:

    Player of the Year:
    Gio Aplon
    Jacques Botes
    Scarra Ntubeni

    Young Player of the Year:
    Cheslin Kolbe
    Heimar Williams
    Fred Zeilinga

  • Comment 58, posted at 25.10.13 14:10:29 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

    TRF_EzequielUnder 21 player
     
  • Goosen we know is allout attack, lambie can do abit off everything, but Demitri looks like a matchwinner, can drop with both feet, control a game, just look like the allround flyhalf. Lambie look like he can make mistakes…..

  • Comment 59, posted at 25.10.13 14:10:54 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @KingsArmy (Comment 56) : Both Carter and Cruden kicks better tactically than Morne.

  • Comment 60, posted at 25.10.13 14:12:41 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 48) : You probably hit the nail on the head. until our provinces start playing the same template of rugby it will be challenging.

    And I kind of agree with your gameplan strategy…although it kind of already is similar to the ABs with forwards and wingers running off the 10. Their loosies play a huge role in their attack!!!

    eg. Flo has proven himself now, gr8 on Defense, gr8 at scavenging and gr8 on attack – PLUS he is a big guy!!! Put Duane Vermeulen at 7 ahead of Alberts and add a Kankowski or similar type player (Kanko at peak form would do well but who knows if he still plays rugby haha) would be the loosies I would pick.

    Or at least that kind of balance. I believe Duane has been gr8 for the Boks (not a bad game this year) and yet his game does not involve sweeping and linking like a Reid. So We can strengthen the trio by including someone who can whilst certainly NOT dropping Duane.

  • Comment 61, posted at 25.10.13 14:17:40 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 61) :

    Interesting name in that comment – Ryan Kankowski..

    He is going to be playing Super Rugby for the Sharks next year, so will he somehow make himself an option for the Bok team?

    It does leave he Sharks with some difficult decisions to make in selecting 3 loosies from what they have available.

  • Comment 62, posted at 25.10.13 14:20:02 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 50) : Fully agree..

  • Comment 63, posted at 25.10.13 14:20:42 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • Deysel’s hammy isn’t badly hurt…he could probably play this weekend if he was forced to play…next week his hammy will be 100%

    I just want to see these following guys on tour, and i think they all deserve to be in the group.

    - Deysel
    - Aplon
    - De Jager

    We will see what heyneke decides.

  • Comment 64, posted at 25.10.13 14:20:45 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJRCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 62) : Do you like my loosie comment then?? haha

    Keegan and Kanko are both great on attack in terms of skill and deception, but Kanko is simply bigger, stronger and faster so the obvious no8. – in that case size does come into account.

    I would go with:

    6. Keegan
    7. Marcell (if he plays like last week) – BLINDSIDE
    8. Kanko

    With Deysel and/or Alberts to terrorize tired defenses.

    Not sure what Mtembu’s scavenging skills are like, but he has impressed otherwise so I would give him opportunities at 6.

    Id pick Marcell at 7 because HE IS NOT SMALL at 106kg (there abouts) and has good pace to improve forward mobility.

    Could do with an out an out fetcher in the loosies though…

  • Comment 65, posted at 25.10.13 14:31:02 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 65) :

    I am not sure about Keegan as a flank – I would be close to dropping him from my team for a free running Coetzee at 6, and Deysel at 7. I agree with Kanko at 8, he is the better option.

    That leaves the team without a captain though, so another problem to contend with..

    We can go on like this for days, most important thing would be to rotate them and keep them all happy with their game time, so as to not lose any of the players..

  • Comment 66, posted at 25.10.13 14:35:00 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • Anyway, this is me for the day..

    See you all here tomorrow and good luck to both the Sharks and Western Province. May the best team win.

  • Comment 67, posted at 25.10.13 14:37:16 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard FergusonCoach
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 65) : I like that 6/7/8 combo IF and its a beeeg IF Coetzee learns to pass the ball. That loose trio weud be very dynamic and we dont have to play the root 1 bash it up and hope our loosies break through the defense. Ona similiar but different point- why doesnt our front rowers ever carry the ball? Jannie/Herbst never do, Beast occassionally but goes to ground so quick, Bismarck never runs onto the ball. If our front row did what our loosies do now then that wud free up our loosies to do just that- play a more loose game. Locks are there to clean rucks.

  • Comment 68, posted at 25.10.13 14:38:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 68) : you try dragging your 120 kg body across the park for all those carries hahaha

  • Comment 69, posted at 25.10.13 14:44:59 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 66) : That would be too similar to the bok trio last year which didnt work, but yeah.

    Im sure we will have lots to discuss/argue about after the game and certainly after the squad announcement. cheers

  • Comment 70, posted at 25.10.13 14:46:37 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 69) : Run fat boys run…

  • Comment 71, posted at 25.10.13 14:55:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Let the record show that u am in favor of Deon Fourie being selected for the EYOT.

    I mean, can you think of the good it will do in promoting a non-racial Bok team if we include a goblin…!?

  • Comment 72, posted at 25.10.13 18:04:38 by Culling Song Reply
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    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • Between Boks and Sharks, Lambie is never allowed to make his preferred spot (Flyhalf) his own. So how can he ever get as good at it as he can if he is shifted from pillar to post? He has made it clear at the Sharks that he wants to play Flyhalf. I think he is the best flyhalf in this country right now, irrespective of his not always reliable place kicking. In the 2007 World Cup. Butch was the flyhalf and the fullback – Percy Montgomery took all the place kicks. Lambie IS NOT ANY BACKLINE PLAYER. HE IS A FLYHALF AND WANTS TO BE THAT. WE have plenty of good fullbacks in this country. Gio Aplon is my favourite for the Bok spot at the moment, even tho I am a full on SHARKS supporter. Louis Ludik should have been given a chance long ago but HM loves you know who!

  • Comment 73, posted at 25.10.13 18:23:20 by [email protected] Reply

    DenCurrie Cup player
     
  • I’d say Kitshoff, Fourie, Malherbe, de Allende, Catrekillis, Schrauder, Frans, SP Marais and Kolbe are playing for tour spots

  • Comment 74, posted at 25.10.13 19:33:12 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexCurrie Cup player
     

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