gregkaos

Why I’m backing Heyneke


Written by Greg Kaos (gregkaos)

Posted in :End of Year Tour, Original Content, Reader Submissions, Springboks on 22 Nov 2013 at 14:14
Tagged with : , , ,

I feel inspired to defend Heyneke Meyer, inspired by some of the unendingly negative comments I’ve seen on various blogs. The more I see, the more compelled I feel to come to his defence. We’re South Africans, we live to support the Boks. The constant flow of unwarranted criticism leaves me feeling embarrassed about a section of our fans.

So here’s why I believe HM deserves our patience & support:

Let’s start by looking at the Bokke since Heyneke Meyer’s introduction as coach. HM inherited a team that had just lost it’s heart – virtually the entire core set of players and leaders in the team gone. Heyneke had to rebuild from the ground up.

Some critics hold the All Blacks up as the benchmark against which we should be measuring ourselves. Really? Steve Hansen inherited a World Cup winning team; experience and confidence oozing out of every department, still high on their own success. He stepped up from assistant coach, already armed with the knowledge about structures and players since 2004. The All Blacks have had a head start on us of 4 clear years. Let’s see Hansen inherit the issues that Meyer did… Fairly confident I do not need to harp on about central contracting and it benefits.

Meyer’s track record speaks for itself – he has been incredibly successful at club level. When he was in charge of the Bulls he was the most successful coach in Super Rugby and Currie Cup. Players who were coached by him made up the large majority of the 2007 World Cup winning team. Heyneke Meyer is a professional coach with an enviable CV and he certainly knows how to coach with a goal in mind.

I am reformed. I was, like many, a doubter, who believed that Meyer was ruining the Boks by using an outdated game plan. However, as 2013 reaches its conclusion, with the benefit of hindsight, I realise what he was doing. HM had no choice in the beginning but to start with an extremely defensive strategy. He had very few options at his disposal. He started with a simple game plan, to win ugly, achieve momentum and blood a very inexperienced side with a heart of the few experienced players he knew he could trust. Once momentum had been achieved he worked quickly to expand that core of players in whom he could place his trust – bringing in young potential talent at his own pace. Ensuring that are properly integrated into the Bok culture and ready to take the field in green and gold.

He constantly strives to improve the belief and culture amongst the players. I follow these guys on Twitter, and it brings a smile to my face to see the positivity oozing from their every thought in respect of the Bokke regardless of whether they are on the field or holding tackle bags. It calls to mind something like that which Venter brought to the Sharks. We are seeing improvements in every facet of our game and they are all beginning to gel together. Scoring tries from set pieces, broken play, turnovers, phase build ups and the tactical kicking. As our players become more in tune with the system in place so will we score more tries and concede less.

I frequently hear people talk about how we should play more like the All Blacks – but why? We are the Springboks. We play like Springboks. We play the South African way – brutally, physically, with bone jarring collisions that our farms boys walk grinning away from, whilst injecting speed, aerial superiority and dominant set pieces from intelligent training ground tactics. The Springbok method has always been our pride and glory – why would we want to trade this in for the All Black ™ method?

It will always be an impossibility for a Springboks coach to choose a side without at least 75% of the population disagreeing with him. However, I now truly believe that the worst thing that Heyneke Meyer could do is bow to public pressure. He’s started down a road, which to my mind leads to great places, and if he were now to change his plan and lose confidence in his vision, where would that lead us? Do you want a coach who will implement a game plan and system he himself doesn’t have faith in? That road only leads to mediocrity.

When I read critics which have their favourite players all selected together with no vision of the future, I think pure accession – select them because they are good now. No thought toward succession planning, or who has the necessary skills and attributes that fit into the plan. Who are the players who can fulfil those roles off the bench?

I work daily with a large group of Kiwis and Saffas. In the 6 years that I have known the Kiwis, the one thing I have never heard from them is criticism of their coach. If he chooses to drop a player in favour of another, they seem to simply accept it and trust that the coach knows what he is doing.

To play the comparison game again, Pieter de Villiers’ inherited what Steve Hansen has now – a world cup winning team. Except that Steve Hansen has surely, by the passing of time, shown himself more of a tactical genius than Pieter de Villiers ever was.

One of the most important things, in my mind, is that regardless of the coach’s vision, is that the game plan and vision will become second nature to all players. For them to evince complete trust in their coach, for them to show belief in the parts that their team mates have to play. Regardless of your talent, willingness to show faith in your coach, and the faith he shows in your colleagues’ abilities, takes time. Takes trust. It has become clear to me that the Boks are embracing this.

Heyneke Meyer clearly has a long term plan. It is not so one dimensional as many people think and we’re only halfway there. The constant flow of harsh criticism towards the coach does the Boks no good. So I say lets support HM in the same breath as we support the Boks. This is how we, as fans, can contribute the most to the Springbok cause and Rugby glory.



90 Comments

  • Good job. :cool:

  • Comment 1, posted at 22.11.13 14:23:23 by McLovin Reply
    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • How long before this is turned into a Lambie thread? :twisted:

  • Comment 2, posted at 22.11.13 14:26:59 by McLovin Reply
    McLovinAssistant coach
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 2) : Hahaha! Oh god I hope not! I pained away from mentioning him or any other players.

    Thanks by the way! :smile:

  • Comment 3, posted at 22.11.13 14:32:33 by gregkaos Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    gregkaosSuper Rugby player
     
  • Bloody hell – so your name is really Greg Kaos? I thought that was a stage moniker, like Sid Vicious – only that you either couldnt spell or deliberately misspelt it!

    Good arti by the way.
    You touched a very good point actually – do you remember the move Cool Runnings? In the movie the Jamiacans are trying to be like the Swiss and fail miserably. Then they decide to just be themselves and find a modicum of success.

    Sometime I feel like the Boks are the Jamaicans and the ABs the Swiss.

  • Comment 4, posted at 22.11.13 14:34:39 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 2) :

    Still reckon Lamb*e is useless… :cool:

  • Comment 5, posted at 22.11.13 14:35:25 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • So I guess you are happy with him bringing back all the tired horses and almost encouraging Matfield to return? And what about mixed signals to players and the media?
    Oh well,thats your view then I suppose :roll:

  • Comment 6, posted at 22.11.13 14:37:18 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • Just because I don’t agree with everything HM does, does not mean I don’t back him and the Bokke.

    Just because I don’t think Morne, Spies, Flip, Jaque (Japan Jaque), Zane, Coenie, Guthro, Ruan, Jano … is necessarily the best options in their positions, doesn’t mean that I don’t back them when the ball goes their way or support them in each tackle.

    I can’t believe that All Black Supporters would agree with everything their coach does. I’d like to speak to those Kiwi’s. Surely they also have a player they favor ahead of another … then again, when you’re team is winning everything, who can complain and who would dare make any suggestions?

  • Comment 7, posted at 22.11.13 14:39:29 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 2) :

    You’re not helping.

  • Comment 8, posted at 22.11.13 14:39:55 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • I have to agree with this article, and glad someone had the balls to write this up especially on Sharksworld.
    I have been thinking about this bok team all day and something that is pretty true is that they are a darn god side, my feeling is the all blacks are really feeling us breath down their necks even though its not looking this way, they are in fear of us. No other team in the world are as close to them as we are and that is really something to be proud off.
    HM has really done well and I recon he is on the right path to the WC. Remember the Currie Cup is not won in May ;) the same can be said about the way he is busy structuring his side together two years before the WC. If we win this weekend which we should do, I can really say that we are just behind the AB’s in terms of success, them having a clean sweep this year and us just just just behind them losing only to them the whole year. I would say this is exactly where we should be sitting 2 years out from WC time.

    It also shows we are miles ahead of any other team but the AB’s. Which is pretty darn good if you ask me.

  • Comment 9, posted at 22.11.13 14:44:29 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieCurrie Cup player
     
  • @BarendL (Comment 6) :

    Erm… HM never said he wanted to bring back Matfield.
    That was a decision between VM and the Bulls.

    Meyer was simply asked if he would consider Matfield – he answered that if you’re good and fit enough then age doesnt come into it.
    A very neutral and politically correct comment.

    Anything above and beyond that was simply media and fan speculation.

    Furthermore – I dont think players are getting mixed signals – they know exactly where they stand with Meyer. And who gives a shit about the media? Sine when are they in any way a factor in the Boks winning ro losing?

    I’m not even a Meyer fan – dont know why im defending him tbh!

  • Comment 10, posted at 22.11.13 14:46:40 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Uli (Comment 9) :

    I cant remember the last time we went through a season only having lost to the ABs.

  • Comment 11, posted at 22.11.13 14:47:44 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 10) : The reason you are defending him is because he has earned some serious respect. ;-)

  • Comment 12, posted at 22.11.13 14:49:07 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 11) : exactly, we are as genuine good side.

  • Comment 13, posted at 22.11.13 14:49:43 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Uli (Comment 12) :

    Argh… dont make me say it.

  • Comment 14, posted at 22.11.13 14:49:51 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • Couldn’t agree more, thanks for this! HM is lightyears ahead of PDV in my opinion!

    Good things coming in the future of Bok Rugby! :grin:

  • Comment 15, posted at 22.11.13 14:49:58 by SeanyJMc Reply

    SeanyJMcUnder 21 player
     
  • The only thing stopping us from being the clear number 1 in the world is that the All Blacks have probably one of if not their best ever squad!!

    PDV managed to scrape 3 wins against the AB’s in 2009. I honestly believe our current Springbok team would have won with a bonus point against that AB team 3/3 times and certainly wouldn’t have lost to Australia.

  • Comment 16, posted at 22.11.13 14:53:56 by SeanyJMc Reply

    SeanyJMcUnder 21 player
     
  • I think he is a good coach, but I think he lacks that little extra we need to catch up to the All Blacks.

    And by that I mean I am not exactly in awe of his assistant coaches. Much say the Gray guy he got in purely for the breakdown has added a lot of value

  • Comment 17, posted at 22.11.13 14:55:44 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringCurrie Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 10) : Okay so if your good enough then age doesn’t come into it….PSDT?
    Coenie is no TH IMO,but gets the bench throughout the RC,so when Jannie is out,why not pick the guy you’ve been picking all year,why use a youngster instead,that would be demoralising if it had been me.
    Jacque Fourie looks like FS 1 year ago…fit enough?
    Kakkies Botha was huffing after 50-60 min….fit enough?
    In the week he said he already planned who will play which match a while ago,so its not a done deal to see Willie at FB after MOM performance….so what I read into that is that you might have 2 crap games and still get picked as discussed (so how do you then reward form as he has repeatedly said?) but then he does pick Willie (which I am very happy about) at Fb (mixed signals)

    Don’t get me wrong,I am a Bok fan through and through,I just question alot of the things he says because to me he contradicts himself at least 15 time a minute!

    That being said,GO BOkke,get that 16 year bogey off your backs!!!

  • Comment 18, posted at 22.11.13 14:57:05 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • @SeanyJMc (Comment 16) : yea this AB team is really good. How long can they stay up there? Surely its time the team takes a bit of a dip?

  • Comment 19, posted at 22.11.13 14:57:20 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 17) : Would you say us losing only to the AB in his second season in charge is not good enough?

  • Comment 20, posted at 22.11.13 14:58:20 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 4) :

    I agree, the Boks should play to their strengths, but there’s no harm in taking pointers here and there and mixing it up when you can.

    Btw… although Jake won the WC in 2007 with basically a kick and chase style, very basic brute force, cynical Jake White Bok style of rugby, we still scored some beautiful tries had a good flyhalf who took the ball flat and could release his backline, with the youngest Bok World Cup player on his outside and two of the most exciting wings and maybe one of the best in the world at that stage in our backline. Jake concentrated on the basics an being clinical, while still selecting players who could break the defense or release the backline.

    I think HM is making plenty of the same moves. I wouldn’t criticizes his overall tactics. Just a few of his messages about player selections confuses me.

  • Comment 21, posted at 22.11.13 14:59:15 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @Uli (Comment 20) : That is why I said he is a good coach, but I don’t see us challenging the no 1 spot.

  • Comment 22, posted at 22.11.13 14:59:17 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringCurrie Cup player
     
  • @BarendL (Comment 18) : You forget who was JW’s no10 when he started out hey…

  • Comment 23, posted at 22.11.13 14:59:27 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 22) : What I am asking is, dont you feel we are on the up with him as coach?
    Dont you think he is actually taking this team places?

  • Comment 24, posted at 22.11.13 15:00:34 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • @Uli (Comment 24) : 2nd place on the rankings, but then again perhaps the whole SA system is stacked against him.

    The Ellis Park test just showed me how far we still have to go to match the All Blacks. They made a big statement by winning that one.

  • Comment 25, posted at 22.11.13 15:05:33 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringCurrie Cup player
     
  • @BarendL (Comment 18) :

    Dude – I’m not gonna get into a debate with you about something this churlish.

    All I said was – Heineken got asked a question and gave a very diplomatic answer. He must get asked a million questions every day.

    ITs you who is over-analysing and trying to draw conclusions. I personally see it for what it is – a guy got asked a question and batted it away in diplomatic fashion.

    If you want to obsess about what is reported in the media down to the minutest detail, then thats your issue. I take my lead from what i see on the field, the same as it was when PdV was coach. I dont give a shit what is said and reporte don by journlists and hacks, all of whom have side agendas.

  • Comment 26, posted at 22.11.13 15:06:31 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 25) :

    Have you ever considered that its not our god-given right to be number 1?

    Or perhaps that the honest truth is they are simply better than this, with better structures and better players?

    God help any coach whose benchmark is beating the All Blacks on a regular basis.

  • Comment 27, posted at 22.11.13 15:08:22 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • I myself have warmed up a bit to HM. But he surely deserve to be given a Bell’s, purely because Krusty the Clown has not once played on this tour :mrgreen:

  • Comment 28, posted at 22.11.13 15:09:06 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 25) : I agree, but we also made one in the manner we challenged them. However don’t forget we had to score 4 tries, something that might only come along once every two to three years against the AB’s. We still got the 4 tries we wanted, we could just not keep up with the pace to the end and defense let us down that day.

  • Comment 29, posted at 22.11.13 15:10:52 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 10) : You love him and all he stands for – admitting this is the first step to your total integration to becoming Tshwanian.

  • Comment 30, posted at 22.11.13 15:11:00 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • For example, I never thought Heyneke would select Willie, a very exciting, yet risky choice over Zane.

    But then he continues with Coenie at tighthead. I don’t understand his fascination with this experiment of Coenie at tighthead. Sure the stocks seem to be a little lean, but then when the Coenie experiment started a few solid SA tightheads decided to leave the country.

    Then there’s Malherbe and Herbst, take your pick – both promising in their positions.

  • Comment 31, posted at 22.11.13 15:13:04 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • Also do I need to remind you that HM continued with the Wynand Olivier selection until he left for Japan, when that time could have been used developing a centre.

    Who do we have now?

    I’m happy with JJ getting gametime, but wasn’t Heyneke’s hand just forced. He selected JJ as a wing last year. There’s plenty of young talented players who could have been given an oppertunity in the Bok midfield. HM couldn’t find one to develop and had to fall back on Jacque. That’s a bit of a fail to me.

  • Comment 32, posted at 22.11.13 15:15:33 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @Uli (Comment 23) : I never suggested that any past coach have been perfect (except Kitch)
    JW was just as poor at stages,subbing Butch for Andre Pretorius and we ending up loosing to the Poms,every coach have had a brainfart,we as the public see it every 4 years,such blogs as this are there for the common guy to voice his disgust at such brainfarts….so I dont quite see the point to this article,if we cant complain about selections..admissions..Walkie Talkie abuse..then whats the point?

  • Comment 33, posted at 22.11.13 15:16:03 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 31) : The Coenie experiment will either fail terribly or succeed amazingly, but every coach has had his own pet project. For me the biggest issues is bringing back Bakkies, playing Flip and for some reason thinking that Guthro is worthy to own a Bok blazer.

  • Comment 34, posted at 22.11.13 15:17:21 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanVodacom Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 27) : Isn’t that what I am saying?

    The All Blacks do something South Africans frown upon – succession planning. They do it with coaching staff and players. When the old hands start to falter, the next in line is ready to step up.

  • Comment 35, posted at 22.11.13 15:20:35 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringCurrie Cup player
     
  • I can continue ignoring these strange things (IMO) that HM has been doing since starting as a coach and just be surprised when we don’t manage to beat the All Blacks again next year and don’t manage to beat the All Blacks during the World Cup (which we all know you have to do to lift that trophy), but I choose to question it and be prepared for those things to happen.

  • Comment 36, posted at 22.11.13 15:20:46 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 26) : :razz: Getting the bold button out I see,sorry,didn’t know you where so passionate about ol’HM!
    :twisted:

  • Comment 37, posted at 22.11.13 15:21:09 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 34) :

    Ive been pretty vocal about my dislike for Bakkies over the years.

    That said – I think he is goign to work out very well for the Boks.
    He’s playing the rugby of his life at the moment and his attitude has changed immensely.

    Lets talk in a year or two and give him and HM the chance to prove themselves. But I’ll put my head on the block and say this is a very good idea.

  • Comment 38, posted at 22.11.13 15:21:57 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 36) : I 100% fully agree!!

  • Comment 39, posted at 22.11.13 15:23:07 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 35) :

    Yeah, but thats a SARU issue – it has nothing to do with the coach.
    HM’s mandate isnt to build the team to be the best in 10 years – its to win the game this weekend, and then keep on winning until the RWC.

    Thats his job. Like my job description and presumably yours.

    Moreover – its a culture thing in SA. Nobody in SA plans that far in advance for anything – I believe its because SA has always been quite an unstable place so most people live day to day.
    Funnnily enough – Ive found the same attitude and lack of planning in other parts of the world that are continually in a state of flux.

    When youre not sure what will happen tomorrow, you live for today.

    As for them playing older players – you do realise Bakkies is less than 6 months older than Richie McCaw, right?

  • Comment 40, posted at 22.11.13 15:27:07 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @BarendL (Comment 37) :

    Lol. Ja nee swaer!

  • Comment 41, posted at 22.11.13 15:27:41 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 27) :

    That’s my benchmark. Otherwise we will all be perfectly happy. Why would our benchmark be any lower than the best?

    All my comments are made based on that benchmark. I want the Boks to beat the All Blacks on a regular basis. If we are commenting on how we are doing now and not on improving and beating the All Blacks then, awesome job HM keep going exactly as you are.

    For me, whatever needs to be done to beat the All Blacks and every other team that dare step on the field with us next year!

    If that’s not what we’re all discussing here then there’s a very good reason why we can’t come to an agreement.

  • Comment 42, posted at 22.11.13 15:29:39 by Letgo Reply
    Author
    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • Ma’a Nonu – 31
    Conrad Smith – 32
    Dan Carter – 31
    Kevin Mealamu – 34
    Wyatt Crockett – 30
    Andrew Hore – 35 (Picked for this weekends games against Ireland)

  • Comment 43, posted at 22.11.13 15:33:16 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 34) :

    If he was going to bring back Bakkies, Fourie, Fourie, or even Matfield, why do it now? Running out of ideas?

    It’s a fallback, not a brilliant move.

  • Comment 44, posted at 22.11.13 15:34:55 by Letgo Reply
    Author
    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 43) :

    Hom many of these players has been out of the international loop for 2 years?

  • Comment 45, posted at 22.11.13 15:35:48 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 43) : But don’t you think that they are still among the best in their positions? SA tend to play the old guys even though they’re heading downhill (exceptions are of course Percy,Os and JDV)

  • Comment 46, posted at 22.11.13 15:36:49 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 40) : Off course you have to win each game – that is how you get to number one. But you also need to blood new players judiciously without disrupting the whole team.

    I just think HM will rather stick with the tried and tested rather than invest in newer players, e.g. JF vs JJE.

    And it is not the NZRU that tells Hansen to give Cruden, Barrett and Taylor some meaningful game time. He knows he cannot depend on Carter forever and he has to find his next in line.

  • Comment 47, posted at 22.11.13 15:37:07 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 45) :

    Pretty much all of them at some time or another.

  • Comment 48, posted at 22.11.13 15:37:12 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • I don’t know why we would all just agree with everything a coach does. How does that help anyone?

    Not that I am saying questioning the coach would make any difference? But if we’re going to have an opinion, why does it have to be in agreement with that of the coach, I fail to see the point of that?

  • Comment 49, posted at 22.11.13 15:37:28 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 48) :

    Serious? I wasn’t aware of this? When?

    Injured? Or took time of from the game? Plied their trade in another country?

    If you’re right then I was completely oblivious of this.

  • Comment 50, posted at 22.11.13 15:39:46 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 47) :

    I dont really see your point. We also give younger players a run.
    We’ve played Goosen, Lambie and Jantjies at flyhalf over the last couple of years.

    None have been good enough. Same as NZ – none of those mentioned have really challenged Carter.

    Not sure I understand your point. Its not like we havent been blooding players at all. Willie le Roux, Eben Etsebeth, PSdT, Coenie, Kolisi, JJ, Lambie.

    Id hazard a guess and say the age profile of the Boks is not very different to that of the ABs.

  • Comment 51, posted at 22.11.13 15:41:44 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 48) : The difference being when they have been out,they showed their worth again domesticly before being picked for the AB’s,HM prefers you come and show your worth after 2 years out in a Bok jersey??Kinda the wrong way around IMO

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.11.13 15:42:07 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 50) :

    Ma’a Nonu – has been in and out of the side (didnt get game time when SBW was playing)
    Conrad Smith – was injured for almost two seasons
    Dan Carter – sabattical in Europe and injured for a length of time.
    Kevin Mealamu – has been out of the side for long periods of time
    Wyatt Crockett – no comment
    Andrew Hore – Hore spent a long time in the international wilderness and they brought him back (at the age of 35) for the RC, where he replaced Dane Coles, who is only 26.

    They’ve also, in the past, brought back several players, including ali williams, dougie howlett etc.

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.11.13 15:46:38 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @BarendL (Comment 52) :

    Again, not sure what your point is. Or why you think i dont agree.

    If you just want to slag off HM, then thats your prerogative, but you’re scratching for bullshit in an attempt to find anything to vilify the guy with.

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.11.13 15:48:41 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @BarendL (Comment 52) :

    Jonah Lomu.
    Sonny Bill Williams.
    Justin Marshall.

  • Comment 55, posted at 22.11.13 15:50:50 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 54) : Didn’t think what I was trying to say was so complex or difficult to comprehend,but hey,what can you do
    I’m not trying to slag anyone but as far as I know this is a blog spog where you can voice your opinions..or did I get that wrong as well?Do I take it you are the Sharksworld gatekeeper on all topics HM? Die lewe is ernstig genoeg

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.11.13 16:00:54 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • Great article !! Always been n big HM fan. Yes I also don’t like coenie at TH, but jannie and malherbe is infront of him so give HM his pet project, its not the end of the world. Psdt will play just chill!!! HM saw last year our breakdowns were not up to it, what did he do…….he fix it. He brought flow back, pick vermeulen and got Gray to help out. He ask that eben also play at 5 in next years s15, he’s building a great second row combos. Picking willie at 15!!! Wow the guy is trying, give him some credit! HM is putting a good squad together, two years out its looking good!

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.11.13 16:02:02 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 53) :

    Fair enough.Point taken.

    Jake White did this with Percy Montgomery.

    I’m not against Bakkies’ inclusion btw, but rather what HM has been doing before bringing him in. Etzebeth is the definate, but Flip has been getting very little playing time while Kruger (who is now completely left out of the team) has been starting with Eben.

    Why not play the guys you will use? Why bring Bakkies in now? Why not last year if you were going to do it?

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.11.13 16:05:37 by Letgo Reply
    Author
    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 55) :

    Btw… Just to clarify!

    While I do think HM is a great coach, proven by his track record, and while I do think he is doing plenty of good things with this Bok team, I do not agree with everything he has been doing and have been left confused by some of the messages he has been sending through the media to the rugby viewing public.

    That’s why I can’t agree with this article. I don’t think backing the Bok coach necessitates that we just nod and smile at every move he makes. Bok fans are passionate (just like HM, I might add), we’re always going to have an opinion and we’re going to look and sound like HM yelling into his walkie, when we voice that opinion.

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.11.13 16:11:53 by Letgo Reply
    Author
    LetgoTeam captain
     
  • @BarendL (Comment 56) :

    Nah, of course you’re entitled to your opinion.

    Just as Im entitled to tell you if i think your opinion is nonsense… ;-)

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.11.13 16:12:12 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 60) : I second that Vin

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.11.13 16:27:13 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 60) : Fair enough…i guess :lol:

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.11.13 16:45:13 by BarendL Reply

    BarendLUnder 19 player
     
  • @BarendL (Comment 62) :

    Just like a good debate mate. And Ive got a lot of time for a reasoned argument.

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.11.13 16:53:35 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 59) : U should have an opinion…..its the SA way, that’s why talking rugby is a great pass time. Its understandable to be upset over one or two players that u think should be 100% in the team, we would all like to make one or two changes. We must also give credit when its due. I don’t like coenie at TH at all or ruan anywhere near the team. HM gave kruger his chance, he failed and HM dropped him. Think all the players know where they stand. HM first year was not good, second year he made some adjustments and its looking better…..learning on the job, AB’s Hansan has been around the block. Bokke aren’t perfect yet, but its looking better…..for that he must surely get a small thumbs up……

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.11.13 17:00:11 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 59) : Don’t get me wrong. I’m not going to blindly agree with everything HM does. He will make mistakes just like anyone else. I certainly don’t think he will ever take Bissie off a field 5m from the AB line again. So yeah, I will disagree with various things HM does but I can accept that I’ll never be as knowledgable about Rugby as him nor will I be able to see the bigger picture like he can.

    I do believe that he is taking the Boks in the right direction, that the game is evolving and that if he sticks to his guns he will lead us to to RWC glory over the ABs.

    Side note: To be fair this article turned into something that isn’t really directed at posts I’ve read at SW. I don’t want to point at any particular blog sites but some of the scathing garbage criticism I’ve seen flung at HM is truely insane.

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.11.13 17:46:27 by gregkaos Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    gregkaosSuper Rugby player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 43) : To add to that here are the caps those guys have.

    Ma’a Nonu – Tests: 87
    Conrad Smith – Tests: 75
    Dan Carter – Tests: 100
    Kevin Mealamu – Tests: 110
    Wyatt Crockett – Tests: 23
    Andrew Hore – Tests: 82

    Kinda touches on one of my points about the advantage the ABs have currently with having many of the core players within the system for so long. They know eachother so damn well from playing side by side within the base system initially setup by Graham Henry. Like when a guy like Reid charges into a tackle area he has complete trust in there been a teammate on his shoulder to pickup the offload. He does not even have to look for the player. He knows where a team mate should be and 9 out of 10 times the player is there.

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.11.13 17:51:14 by gregkaos Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    gregkaosSuper Rugby player
     
  • Nice one Greg! Hope to read more of your articles, you write well.

    Regarding Meyer, I was over the moon when he was announced as coach because the team he coached put the fear of God in me each time we played them. Always felt they could find an extra gear when necessary and do whatever necessary to win, whether it was a longe-range penalty or a try from nowhere. Sharks fans know the dread those teams raised all too well.

    Doubt crept in, in the first year but he’s won me over again. He’s not a perfect coach but he’s a coach with a vision I can get behind. I can see this Bok team eventually haunting opposition fans and that makes me warm and fuzzy all over.

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.11.13 17:53:53 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    vanmartinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 67) : Cheers Van! Will try write some more then :)

    Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I still have nighmares. Probably not as bad as the Reds fans when he inspired the Bulls to beat them 92 – 3.

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.11.13 18:13:07 by gregkaos Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    gregkaosSuper Rugby player
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 68) : the game at ellis park HM could easily went just for the win over the AB, by playing it save, keeping it tight and take all ur penalties. But we/he didn’t, he went all out for the bonus point to try and win the whole RC…..I like that killer instinct. When the bulls had u on the ropes they didn’t let up….they finished u!!! They put up some big scores…..92 past reds; 75 past strms; and some others I can’t recall exactly now…..

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.11.13 18:41:33 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • I like Heyneke Meyer as a coach. I just get concerned when he doesn’t take the future into consideration when making selections. No, I am not talking solely about PL, but about the team in general. Some examples:

    J Kruger
    We have no young loosehead for when Beast leaves
    Our loose trio is awesome, but hasn’t been rotated at all
    Steyn
    Not giving de Villiers a rest or Serfontein a start
    J Fourie
    Kirchner
    Coetzee
    Young wings ready to take over

    Overall he is a great coach and I certainly don’t mind winning. Perhaps he doesn’t take enough risks. That could be costly in the future. Sure, he came in with not much to work with, and he did pretty well, but I fear he is going to be leaving the next coach with the same dilemma.

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.11.13 18:46:36 by David12246 Reply

    David12246Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @KingsArmy (Comment 69) : I totally agree. I feel like HM realised this was possibly his only chance to throw a full out attacking game plan. It really sucks that we lost but I reckon we got some valuable experience from it. We know we can scores 4 tries against the ABs now. No one else has managed to get close to that this year. (i think). If we can combine that attack with our top defence we will topple the ABs.

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.11.13 18:52:03 by gregkaos Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    gregkaosSuper Rugby player
     
  • What frustrates me with Meyer is number 1 the mixed messages he gives. First Lambie was only a flyhalf and we suffered with Kirchner at FB. When Morne lost form he turned around and said he always felt Lambie was best at 15…… forgive me if that was confusing! Once again his statements about how highly he rates PSDT only to follow it up by picking Franco ahead of him against the AB then 8 mins of game time against Whales? Forgive me if that is confusing? The whole Coenie issue is also confusing as hell for me. Surely the guy on the bench must be capable of starting? What happens if Jannie went down in the first few minutes?

    I also find that in every team he names there is at least one positional or player selection where the majority of the public sit back scratch their heads and think “huh?”

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.11.13 19:21:31 by Half-Pint Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • Meyer is the Bok coach and I back him fully.

    But he won’t take us past the ABs. That said, few can.

    I wonder how things would have worked out if PdV and SARU could have been mature.

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.11.13 19:35:07 by Big Fish Reply
    Administrator
    Big FishTeam captain
     
  • @Half-Pint (Comment 72) : last year HM tried a couple of players and it didn’t go to well, this year was all about winning and getting the confidence up. I haven’t met anyone who’s liking the coenie experiment…..but that said, sitting on the bench doesn’t mean he’s our 2nd best TH, u might just be a impact player. Rating a player doesn’t mean he’s ready to play. HM seems to rate a couple of young players and they will probably come through next year, like: psdt; A botha; goosen; jj; malherbe; coetzee; kolisi

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.11.13 20:36:04 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • Read some crazy idea that HM must bring some good young players through for the next coach……what utter crap!!! HM only need to do two things: 1) get a good win ratio[we should all want that as bok supporters]. 2) win the worldcup!!!!!

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.11.13 20:42:35 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 5) : No one really pays much attention to the insane ramblings of a troll.

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.11.13 21:16:15 by markp Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • :grin:

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.11.13 22:40:24 by denese.newby@gmail.com Reply

    denese.newby@gmail.comUnder 21 player
     
  • @markp (Comment 76) :

    You missed the wink, didnt ya?

  • Comment 78, posted at 23.11.13 00:16:58 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 73) : I wanted to quip about mentioning maturity and SARU in the same sentence but your comment lead to a moment of introspection. We as SA rugby fans, sadly do tend to get the leadership we deserve.

  • Comment 79, posted at 23.11.13 11:18:35 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    vanmartinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KingsArmy (Comment 75) : And there you have hit the nail on the head. This is my issue with HM. He is so scared of losing, he is willing to sacrifice the self-same players who is giving him that %. JDV will not make the next WC. The older players who do make the WC, wil be broken and will not win the WC. HM is better person than you @Kingsarmy and do want to leave a legacy. He is Springbok through and through, but he will levae Bok rugby broken just because the idea of losing gives him nightmares. Believe in yourself HM! And in your players. The 2nd stringers would have klapped the Scots. ( and well done on adding to MS caps with the 5 min stint. Looking after his boytjies nicely)

  • Comment 80, posted at 24.11.13 14:34:09 by catfish Reply
    Author
    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • Meyer has improved things this year results wise but has regressed in terms of personnel. We have some way to go to challenge the Kiwi’s. The Kiwi’s have the correct model, they have a core supplemented by youngsters, we have a core supplemented by hasbeens.

    Therein lies the difference and the reason why our squad does not represent the best players we have at our disposal and why the Kiwi squad does.

    It is also the very reason the Boks will not challenge the Kiwi’s for top spot and why our side will not be properly set for the next WC.

    The Bok core should be JP, Habana, Frans, Jean, du Preez, Beast, Bismark, Strauss, Chiliboy, Jannie, Flip, Louw, Brussouw, Alberts and Vermeulen……supplemented by young incumbents or close like Willie, JJ, Serfontein, Lambie, Goosen, Hougaard, Coenie, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Steph du Toit, Kolisi, Coetzee and Arno Botha. Add a few other worthy youngsters to that squad like Taute, de Allende, v/Zyl, Kitshoff, Nkanyane, de Jager, Willemse, Elstadt and CJ Stander and we have the Kiwi model mirrored.

    Bringing back Fourie, Steenkamp and Bakkies is regressive and the continued investment in Morne and Pienaar is flawed. Take these five players out of the Bok equation and our side has a positive look about it. Steenkamp and Bakkies stifle in terms of progression and development…….Pienaar, Morne and Fourie stifle our attacking options in a big, big way.

  • Comment 81, posted at 24.11.13 14:52:27 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Saffex (Comment 81) : agree on some points, but not all……yes HM is not doing everything the way I want him to do things, but that’s probably ok since he’s the coach and not me. Agree with steenkamp and pienaar, but think steyn is fitting in with the bokke style of play, hopefully one of the young 10′s will perform consistent next s15……but if not so be it, steyn can still win us that worldcup. Fourie did improve our defense on tour, one try in 3 games. Think HM will bring some of those youngsters through next year, think bokke will be a bit more exciting next year.

  • Comment 82, posted at 25.11.13 08:53:45 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • There are a lot of positives from this year. Willie le Roux hasnt cemented his place at 15. Duane/Alberts/Louw have been outstanding. Flip Van Der Merwe looks a different player since his disciplined improved. Pienaar has regressed which is a worry and we have 2 very good hookers but which ever one comes off the bench never looks that good and always misses lineouts.There will be a few interesting choices next year as what does HM do with a fit again Frans Steyn, Jaco Taute, Johan Goosen , Pierre Spies, Schalk Burger and Juan Smith.

  • Comment 83, posted at 25.11.13 09:34:01 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 83) : Not sure what they gonna do with f steyn since jdv is captain. Think ABotha is also gonna push for a place. Hope willie will play more at 15 with the tahs….he need more exp there, but really like him. Malherbe also looked good!

  • Comment 84, posted at 25.11.13 10:01:33 by KingsArmy Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @KingsArmy (Comment 84) : Yeh I forgot Arno Botha- wouldnt mind Kolisi/Coetzee/Botha loosies, also possibly throw in Francious Hougaard and if Kanko has a good S15 does he come back into the reckoning?. I think HM is looking at Steyn 12 with JDV at 13. Serfontein and JJ will combine at Bulls so if they fire will make HM’s selections difficult. HM also likes Taute so will see. The Tahs seem to like Daniller at 15 so Le Roux might not play there.Tahs have a massive gap at 12 to fill.

  • Comment 85, posted at 25.11.13 10:11:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKCurrie Cup player
     
  • I must give HM his dues. I see he would like to have a national brainstorming session on how to get to the next level to beat the All Blacks.

    I personally see the 9-10 axis as a big issue. FdP is clearly the Bok general directing our attack. However my issue is when he sub him (or he is not available), the next 9 is clearly in a different class in that respect.

    Should we in those cases not rather revert to a game plan where 10 makes the decisions and allow the 9′s to concentrate on getting the ball out fast and cleanly to 10. Surely it would be easier for the Van Zyl’s, Reinach’s, Schroeders (:razz:) to concentrate on providing good service rather than trying to figure out tactically what to do next at the same time?

    So when FdP is playing, by all means let him run the show. But when he is not, let 10 run the show. And then get a 10 that can run the show

  • Comment 86, posted at 25.11.13 11:42:31 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 86) : Interesting that you mention the issue of a 9 being a play maker as opposed to the 10. I think the majority of 9s in Sa now and the ones coming through are all focussing on getting to the ball and clearing it quickly to their 10s. They do not act as play makers, which is a big change fro the way most 9s used to play in SA. I think the only 9 that still plays as a playmaker is Sarel Pretorius.

  • Comment 87, posted at 25.11.13 11:49:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 87) : But if you look at the Boks, Fdp and Ruan are the chief directors of play. We usually have a bunch of forwards running of 9, before we allow 10 to get hold of the ball.

  • Comment 88, posted at 25.11.13 11:52:40 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 88) : Yes i agree, but thats why its hard to see the succession plan at 9 because the 9s coming up now dont play like that.

  • Comment 89, posted at 25.11.13 12:52:49 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKCurrie Cup player
     
  • @KingsArmy (Comment 82) : Problem is, Fourie offered nothing on attack, he was pretty pathetic in fact. In 3 tests he gained a total of 13 m with ball in hand, never beat a single defender or made a clean break……its just not good enough.

    Sorry but for as long as we retain the ponderous Morne at 10, we have no chance of beating the AB’s or winning the WC

  • Comment 90, posted at 26.11.13 01:55:53 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexVodacom Cup player
     

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