robdylan

Deysel’s fate unclear


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 19 May 2014 at 10:11
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A good 48 hours have passed since the Sharks’ amazing Christchurch houdini act and yet there has been no real indication as to what further sanction loose forward Jean Deysel faces. Deysel was red carded in the 17th minute of the match and has duly been cited for allegedly infringing law 10.4 (b) – Stamping or trampling.

A lot of harsh things were said at the time of the incident, but as true Sharks fans, I’m sure we are all 100% behind Jean at what is an incredibly difficult time for him. We all saw the provocation – we saw yet another New Zealand team deliberately and blatantly practising the art of “holding on” after every possible phase of play, without so much as a mention from any of the match officials, far less any sanction. Paul Jordaan was clearly and cynically impeded by Ryan Crotty in the build up to S’bura Sithole try, an act worthy of a yellow card in any fair system, yet that indiscretion passed with nary a mention.

Deysel’s boot to the face of Jordan Taufua was reckless and stupid and warranted a card. If Deysel deserved red, which on the balance of probability he did, then his victim – who had himself committed a cynical infringement by holding on to Deysel’s leg metres from where the ball was – certainly deserved a yellow himself. Once again, the off-the-ball interference which is the Kiwi stock in trade went unnoticed and unpunished by a team of officials who saw nothing more than they expected to see: yet more South African thuggery.

Knowing Jean as I do, I can imagine how terrible he must feel about the situation. He lashed out in frustration, that much is clear and certainly didn’t think about what he was doing or what the consequences might be. It was reckless, dangerous and very silly indeed, but what it wasn’t was deliberate or pre-meditated and I hope with all my heart that that factor will be taken into account when the wise heads of the judiciary get together to determine his fate.

Wolla, our thoughts are with you! Let’s all hope for a fair and reasonable outcome.



69 Comments

  • I hope he will be available in the playoffs – so hoping for no longer than a 4 game ban.

  • Comment 1, posted at 19.05.14 10:14:00 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • I was thinking a 5 week ban would be appropriate.

    He would then miss the games against the Blues and the Stormers.

  • Comment 2, posted at 19.05.14 10:25:55 by jonnow Reply

    jonnowSuper Rugby player
     
  • The refs need to police the off the ball niggles more. Sure Deysel was held back but that didn’t warrant stamping on someones face. I would support a lengthy ban as there is no place in rugby for what Deysel did whether he meant to or not.

  • Comment 3, posted at 19.05.14 10:28:54 by lostfish Reply
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  • Well put Rob. I think it sums up the sentiments of most of the SW folks very well. Our thoughts are definitely with Jean.

  • Comment 4, posted at 19.05.14 10:29:59 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Another incident that made me mad was Crusader lock (4), Dominic Bird pushing Cobus Reinach’s face into the ground after he scored his try. What for ?

  • Comment 5, posted at 19.05.14 10:32:03 by Ernie Reply

    ErnieVodacom Cup player
     
  • In the 6 nations this year a Welsh player was banned for 12 weeks for stamping on an opponents head. It was 16 weeks and reduced to 12 by his guilty plea and his remorse.

  • Comment 6, posted at 19.05.14 10:32:41 by lostfish Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 3) : I agree what he did was stupid and isnt needed. I dont think he made contact with the head was more the corner of the neck shoulder region. still he needs his ban. What i would like to know if information feedback on why the refs ignore the off the ball plan all the time?

  • Comment 7, posted at 19.05.14 10:33:47 by Dunx Reply

    DunxSuper Rugby player
     
  • At the time of the red card I felt he’d ruined the game, but as we now know it galvanized the team. I watched the game again later on Saturday night night, without the emotion that was present earlier in the day and I noticed numerous infringements by the Crusaders. Cobus Reinach being taken out in full view of the officials, the interference with Paul Jordaan in the run up to Sithole’s try, players cleaning out beyond the ball and of course the ball to JP’s face all in the view of the officials.

    The question that remains is what will be done about this?

    It’s not only the Crusaders who employ these tactics, the Chiefs are just as guilty, although they favour clearing out beyond the ruck.

  • Comment 8, posted at 19.05.14 10:35:49 by Jacques Venter Reply

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  • Those guys saying nasty things about Deysel need to look at his record – he’s not a dirty player.

    Clearly the red was justified as he fully intended to stamp; but I for one think that the video evidence is clear that he didn’t intend to stamp on his face – that part was accidental. So I’m hoping for some leniency.

  • Comment 9, posted at 19.05.14 10:36:53 by Big Fish Reply
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  • According to The Press (Chch newspaper) Deysel approached the Crusaders fellow and apologised. He said he no animosity towards Deysel and was sure it was a spur of the moment thing. However I don’t think this will vindicate him. I do however feel that some sort of punishment is needed for the provocation as well, never will happen, but still!

  • Comment 10, posted at 19.05.14 10:39:34 by Dynamite Reply

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  • @Dunx (Comment 7) : It doesn’t matter where he stamped the fact is that he did and he retaliated. Retaliation always gets a harsher sentence.

  • Comment 11, posted at 19.05.14 10:40:41 by lostfish Reply
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  • Quite honestly, if you’re in the middle of running and someone grabs your leg you will overbalance and who knows what might happen next!

  • Comment 12, posted at 19.05.14 10:40:49 by [email protected] Reply

    DenCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 9) : He is usually a decent clean player but the fact of the matter is he made contact with the face whether he intended to or not. As a Sharks fan I don’t really want him to be banned because he is needed but as a rugby fan he deserves a lengthy ban.

  • Comment 13, posted at 19.05.14 10:42:57 by lostfish Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 6) : I remeber something like that but cant remember how it came about. Was the guy being stamped on also infringing on the rules of the game.

  • Comment 14, posted at 19.05.14 10:45:40 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 13) :
    It’s not a question of whether he will be banned: that is a foregone conclusion.

    It’s a matter of the length of the ban. And here the severity of the incident and degree of intention should count.

  • Comment 15, posted at 19.05.14 10:47:24 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Deysel was a victim of a cynical provocation.
    He was held off the balll by the foot,he got clear then the guy grabbed him again ,while lying on the floor under his foot. Deysel never went looking for trouble Like a Dean Greyling.He got exactly what he deserved,and should get no sympathy.
    The fact that he grabbed him a second time should be taken into account.
    The indignant Crusaders should look into their own recent past if they want to talk about thuggery on the field Richard Loe single handily invented it.He was sub species on his own ,and now he’s a T.V. commentator .

  • Comment 16, posted at 19.05.14 10:49:29 by The hound Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 14) : if I remember correctly it was a maul and his leg was being pulled

  • Comment 17, posted at 19.05.14 10:50:17 by lostfish Reply
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  • @jonnow (Comment 2) : Don’t the bans usually apply to games – not weeks?

  • Comment 18, posted at 19.05.14 10:50:49 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 15) : It should but it might only buy him a weeks grace. If there is anything to go by he didn’t make the player bleed like the Welsh guy and perhaps he would get a week less than that. In my mind 8 weeks should be the minimum threshold for this. He will be lucky if it is less and it wouldn’t be undeserved if it were more.

  • Comment 19, posted at 19.05.14 10:52:48 by lostfish Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 18) : It is weeks.

  • Comment 20, posted at 19.05.14 10:53:12 by lostfish Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 18) : the bans are so wildly inconsistent that it’s hard to predict what will happen.

    Most of the time they are in terms of games, but not always

  • Comment 21, posted at 19.05.14 10:55:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • How do we stop incidents like this happeneing?
    My proposal would be to give the victim (the poor guy that a smack/kick etc because of HIS own infringement) exactly the same ban as what the perpetrator gets. So if Deysel gets 4 weeks then so too should Taufua get a 4 week sanction. Sounds harsh – I dont think so because if it was not for his intentional dirty play/baiting then Deysel would have had no reason to have struck out.

    Bring in this form of sanctioning and I will guarantee you that most of this off the ball nonsense will end.

  • Comment 22, posted at 19.05.14 10:56:27 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 13) : As a fan of rugby, I’d prefer to see off the ball interference be stamped out once and for all.

    Get rid of the cause of dirty play, and stop merely focusing on the symptoms.

    Somebody somewhere said, that the captains need to be in the ears of the ref, warning him that unless he takes action, the players will be forced to take matters into their own hands, and it will be the fault of the ref for not addressing the off the ball interference.

    Bismarck has used this tactic before, he should keep that one handy at all times. It places more responsibility on the refs.

  • Comment 23, posted at 19.05.14 10:58:21 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 22) : Viking helmets :mrgreen:

  • Comment 24, posted at 19.05.14 11:12:03 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Ernie (Comment 5) : Yeah I saw that, I also noticed that when they replayed the try they showed it from an angle where you couldnt see the downward push on Reinach or simply ended the clip with Reinach dotting down. They did not analyse the incident at all.

  • Comment 25, posted at 19.05.14 11:13:01 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 23) :
    Surely that is the job of the Linesman and isn’t that why they are now called assistant refrees.

  • Comment 26, posted at 19.05.14 11:13:21 by The hound Reply
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  • I remember P Divvy making a stink about this and everyone dismissed it as sour grapes but the Ozzie rugby show (I forget the name) went and compiled a video and found numerous instances in just one game that they looked at.
    Im pretty sure the video on on youtube somehwere

  • Comment 27, posted at 19.05.14 11:20:57 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 27) : Something like “rugbydump”….I remember that clip, nothing has changed though, ab’s are untouchable, as long as they do it, it’s fine.

  • Comment 28, posted at 19.05.14 11:29:49 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 18) : it should be weeks and not games. @The hound (Comment 26) : yip foul play is one of a AR’s secondary roles , but these days Tmo’s may also point out foul play

  • Comment 29, posted at 19.05.14 11:47:58 by BR Reply
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  • We all make mistakes if provoked. Jean has always given everything for the sharks. Let us all forgive him and hope the sentence is only a few weeks. We need Jean in the play offs. He has been a rock in the last three games.

  • Comment 30, posted at 19.05.14 11:48:04 by Observer Reply

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  • @BR (Comment 29) : With the break in Super rugby these days bans in weeks do not make sense. So a guy that gets a two week ban at the start of the season sits out two games, while a player that gets the same sentence on the weekend of the 30th misses no games?

  • Comment 31, posted at 19.05.14 12:05:38 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 23) : Yes I agree.

    The problem I see is that the reward for dirty tactics is far too great. Penalties for purposely aggravating other players is virtually non existent, yet a player retaliating is massive.

    Now I hate to see stomps, punches, etc but we need to consider the frame of mind of the rugby players not take a step backwards for anyone, put their bodies on the line, and dominate the opposition. Add constant niggle, holding back, off the ball, etc, especially stuff that goes unpunished and bad things always happen.

  • Comment 32, posted at 19.05.14 12:30:44 by gregkaos Reply
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  • I doubt this will go further than the current red card sanction. Citing is mandatory following a red card.

    If you re-watch the footage, he’s not held at the last maul – he’s tackled about 10m from the preceeding maul and about 15 meters from play. Contact is primarily to the shoulder not the face. And the player can argue that he is off balance because of the interference. From the video footage theres not even a scratch on the players face.

  • Comment 33, posted at 19.05.14 12:35:33 by byron Reply

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  • Should realistically be closer to 10 weeks, I reckon. No matter what the provocation, that was the single most terrible act I’ve ever seen on a rugby field.

  • Comment 34, posted at 19.05.14 14:04:31 by Dewald Nel Reply

    Dewald NelUnder 21 player
     
  • @byron (Comment 33) : I agree, it was hard enough that we had to play with 14, sanction enough. But being a saffar we can add on 4 weeks,

  • Comment 35, posted at 19.05.14 14:04:58 by Dunx Reply

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  • @Dewald Nel (Comment 34) :
    Only started watching rugby on Saturday I take it?

  • Comment 36, posted at 19.05.14 14:15:57 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 31) : let’s say he played for the bokke he would have missed those games, the suspension is from al rugby so he won’t be able to play for his club for instance .

  • Comment 37, posted at 19.05.14 14:25:16 by BR Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 36) : Either that or he is yet to discover youtube.

  • Comment 38, posted at 19.05.14 14:33:33 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 38) : :roll: Take off your Sharky blinkers, and look at it again.

  • Comment 39, posted at 19.05.14 14:51:16 by Dewald Nel Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 38) : well, at least one of us will remain productive, then :)

  • Comment 40, posted at 19.05.14 14:51:40 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Dewald Nel (Comment 34) : You haven’t seen much then have you??

  • Comment 41, posted at 19.05.14 14:53:15 by lostfish Reply
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  • Just wondering, why is it that whenever a South African player is cited, the hearing seems to take forever to conclude. I’ve just read the O’Donahue fellow has been cleared of eye-gouging already……

  • Comment 42, posted at 19.05.14 15:16:58 by Bayshark Reply

    BaysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Dewald Nel (Comment 39) : I’m not arguing that it isn’t the worse you’ve seen, I’m simply stating that I’ve seen far worse bud. Time to expand your horizons and discover the time sink that is youtube.

    @robdylan (Comment 40) : No doubt :mrgreen:

  • Comment 43, posted at 19.05.14 15:16:59 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Bayshark (Comment 42) : Fair call, from my armchair view it looked more like attempted cornea harvesting than your run of the mill gouging.

  • Comment 44, posted at 19.05.14 15:38:46 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : they should get Barry Roux to defend Deysel, after cross examination Jordan would admit that he tried to headbutt Deysel’s boot.

  • Comment 45, posted at 19.05.14 16:47:50 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 45) : :lol:

  • Comment 46, posted at 19.05.14 17:16:39 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Craig Lewis is on tour with them…. this is what he has said:

    “Soon after the team’s arrival in Auckland, a preliminary judicial hearing into Deysel’s red card offence was held via tele-conference, with the case being considered in the first instance by Sanzar Duty Judicial Officer Nicholas Davidson.

    Deysel was sent from the field for stamping on Crusaders flanker Jordan Taufua, and after taking the matter under review overnight, Davidson is expected to pass down his judgment today. Although Deysel responded to clear provocation after being held back off the ball, and will have contested that his intention was not to make contact with Taufua’s face, the likelihood is that he could well face a further suspension.”

  • Comment 47, posted at 19.05.14 17:35:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) : so basically get ready for a long ban?!?!

  • Comment 48, posted at 19.05.14 18:15:37 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 48) : I think so. 6-12 weeks I guess.

  • Comment 49, posted at 19.05.14 18:18:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 49) : don’t think Deysel deserves more than 2-4 weeks max (seeing he was provoked and he has a clean disciplinary record) but seeing as he’s a “South African thug” you’re correct with the 12 weeks. :’(

  • Comment 50, posted at 19.05.14 18:29:52 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 50) : provoked or not he should not have made contact with the players face. He knew what he was doing and that should make it a top-end offence. IIRB regulations say a mid-range offence for stamping sees an entry point of a five-week ban with a top-end incident seeing at least a nine-week suspension with a maximum of a year.

  • Comment 51, posted at 19.05.14 18:47:01 by lostfish Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 51) : yes I agree there is no place for foul play in rugby, but if you’re looking for shit and provoke a player that must be taken into account when a player lashes out. Deysel is not a dirty player and that must also be considered.

  • Comment 52, posted at 19.05.14 19:04:50 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 52) : You cannot retaliate like that in a rugby game and it was silly niggling. If someone is pushing you from behind at a bar is that provocation to turn around and punch him? It is annoying yes but doesn’t warrant a violent reaction. Deysel isn’t a thug but he retaliated. The only things that will stand in his favour are his good character, disciplinary record, has shown remorse and the fact that he apologised to the other player immediately after the game. The fact that he was held back won’t get him any reduction in a ban.

  • Comment 53, posted at 19.05.14 19:17:22 by lostfish Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 53) : I don’t totally agree with you. In some cases the provocation was taken into account and resulted in a shorter ban.

  • Comment 54, posted at 19.05.14 19:33:17 by JD Reply
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  • It would be a positive, if all the publicity result in the referees starting to penalize cynical play more often.

    Whatever the ban, it would not be in vain. Somewhere in the future we may Deysel him for his sacrifice.

    I’m an optimist. :smile:

  • Comment 55, posted at 19.05.14 19:43:39 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 54) : Some cases yes but that usually involved physcial assault from either side. Deysel looked down and stamped his boot on the other player. Thinking back I also think Deysel has been banned before for a choke hold on another player.

  • Comment 56, posted at 19.05.14 19:52:05 by lostfish Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 55) : The niggling by NZ teams is a blight on the game and it should be policed far more thoroughly. If the ref actually had to do that he wouldn’t need to take his whistle out of his mouth.

  • Comment 57, posted at 19.05.14 19:53:29 by lostfish Reply
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  • Ok so now I an comment on this whole thing as it’s the first time I saw what happend.
    1. Jordan surely must be in the run for an Oscar after that pperformance!
    2. If they think that was stomping they must come to me I will show them what stomping is!
    3. It was not a full force stomp it was more a leave my foot or……
    4. It was stupid but not nearly as bad as sme people made it out to be.
    5. If he gets a ban I would really be moerig if it’s longer than 2 weeks!
    And that’s what I think of this whole thing! !!!!

  • Comment 58, posted at 19.05.14 20:50:02 by JD Reply
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  • Adam Thompson got a yellow and a 1 week suspension

  • Comment 59, posted at 19.05.14 21:16:55 by byron Reply

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  • @byron (Comment 59) : for doing what?

  • Comment 60, posted at 19.05.14 21:26:05 by JD Reply
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  • For rucking a scottish player in the head in 2012 …

  • Comment 61, posted at 19.05.14 21:28:31 by byron Reply

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  • Or 2011 … sure it was 2012. Just remember there being an outcry.

  • Comment 62, posted at 19.05.14 21:29:20 by byron Reply

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  • @byron (Comment 61) : thanks. Ja don’t think what I saw tonight deserves more than max 2 weeks.

  • Comment 63, posted at 19.05.14 21:33:05 by JD Reply
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  • @byron (Comment 62) : It was extended by a week after the IRB appealed.

  • Comment 64, posted at 19.05.14 22:07:22 by lostfish Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 63) : I think you have your Shark tinted glasses on. I am as biased as they come when it comes to the Sharks but I think he deserves a harsh ban for that stupidity.

  • Comment 65, posted at 19.05.14 22:11:54 by lostfish Reply
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  • @lostfish (Comment 65) : I do not wear glasses. Yes it was stupid but he’s not charged for being stupid he was charged for stomping. My 11 year old daughter stomps harder than what Deysel did on Saturday. The Saders player milked it even more than European soccer players. At best it was a glancing blow to the face, if big Jean stomped on his face he would have woke up in hospital not lie on the ground crying.

  • Comment 66, posted at 19.05.14 22:30:07 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 66) :
    Ok, no glasses, but definitely black and white tinted contact lenses then!

    A stamp is a stamp. I’m just going for leniency.

  • Comment 67, posted at 20.05.14 07:46:03 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Still no news? I wonder what’s taking so long?

  • Comment 68, posted at 20.05.14 07:49:44 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 67) : the Saders player admitted to holding Deysel back and that it was not a full blown stomping. but yeas seeing as he’s from SA he would probably be banned for 6 months.

  • Comment 69, posted at 20.05.14 09:04:11 by JD Reply
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