robdylan

The great Shark clear-out


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 9 Jun 2014 at 10:43
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

With stories filtering in over the course of the Super Rugby season, I thought it might be helpful to do a consolidated post listing all the Sharks players that we know are leaving at the end of Super Rugby – or have, in fact, already left to pursue their careers elsewhere.

Of the players below, several are leaving for Japan on short-term deals that will not affect their Super Rugby availability next year. Others have opted to leave for good and the repercussions are quite large, not only for the imminent Currie Cup campaign – where new head coach Brad Macleod-Henderson will additionally have to cope with a large cohort of absent Boks – but also for next year’s Super Rugby tournament.

With little movement the other way (at least, not that we’ve heard) the Sharks are going to have to lean heavily on their junior ranks in the months to come in the hope that a few new stars put up their hands and prove their worthiness for Super Rugby in 2015.

Here are the departures we know about at the moment.

Name Position Destination Return for Super Rugby?
 Wiehahn Herbst  Prop  Ulster  No
 Allan Dell  Prop  Edinburgh  No
 Anton Bresler  Lock  Edinburgh  No
 Peet Marais  Lock  Brives  No
 Edwin Hewitt  Lock  Biarritz  No
 Keegan Daniel  Flank  Kubota  No
 Jean Deysel  Flank  Toyota Verblitz  No
 Justin Downey  Flank  Suntory  No
 Ryan Kankowski  Number 8  Toyota  Yes
 Charl McLeod  Scrumhalf  Grenobles  No
 Shannon Rick  Scrumhalf  Albi  No
 Robert du Preez  Flyhalf  WP  No
 Francois Steyn  Centre  Toshiba  Yes
 Tim Whitehead  Centre  EP Kings  No
 JP Pietersen  Wing  Panasonic  Yes
 Hansie Graaff  Fullback  EP Kings  No


129 Comments

  • 16 players? Shit….

  • Comment 1, posted at 09.06.14 10:44:37 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : yoh. Scary when you look at it like this.

  • Comment 2, posted at 09.06.14 10:54:05 by gregkaos Reply
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  • added to this list, the Boks who won’t be available for Currie Cup

    Beast Mtawarira
    Bismarck du Plessis
    Jannie du Plessis
    Willem Alberts
    Marcell Coetzee
    Pat Lambie
    S’bura Sithole
    Lwazi Mvovo

    And then injured

    Pieter-Steph du Toit

  • Comment 3, posted at 09.06.14 10:54:18 by robdylan Reply
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  • Hopefully there will be some nice signings waiting. At least we have an experienced prop joining us for the CC. Will need one or two more experienced players in the squad, but we should have enough depth in the young players. Between Stevens, Wentzel and Odwa, we have some guys who have been around the block.

  • Comment 4, posted at 09.06.14 10:59:32 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanCurrie Cup player
     
  • Some big names in there…

  • Comment 5, posted at 09.06.14 10:59:39 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : hectic hey

  • Comment 6, posted at 09.06.14 11:00:30 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • So we shouldnt be expecting too much from the CC team then. Some newbies are going to be put through the wringer. I think this will be a good thing in the long term – Im quiete happy to have a poor CC if it is going to prepare some guys for a tough Super season. I wont be happy if those same players are spotted and bought by some foreign club with more money than rugby credentials.

  • Comment 7, posted at 09.06.14 11:02:57 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : I would have said eish but I think its a good thing,firstly panick struck when PSDT got hurt !but look at 4 and 5 now,in a class of there own(should actualy be playing for the Boks ),time for youngsters to be backed and schooled in a new winning culture which at moment is lacking and clearly diddicult to teach older players

  • Comment 8, posted at 09.06.14 11:08:22 by benji Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • @benji (Comment 8) : difficult

  • Comment 9, posted at 09.06.14 11:10:12 by benji Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • So, from all the players leaving, it’s only Kanko and JP and (hopefully!) Steyn that will be available for Super Rugby? Geez well.. you said it rob@robdylan (Comment 1) :

  • Comment 10, posted at 09.06.14 11:18:37 by Another Nick Reply

    Another NickCurrie Cup player
     
  • It’s bad news yes, but this is the Sharks. Youngsters will step up and I have confidence in our new management to sign good replacements. No more Strauli signings.

  • Comment 11, posted at 09.06.14 11:22:11 by Caratacus Reply

    CaratacusCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : Fair enough but in all honesty, how many of those players (not returning for Super Rugby) would we have liked to stay on?

    Herbst, Dell, Bresler and Deysel would be my choices.

    Marais, du Preez, Rick and Graaf are largely unknown quantities. I’ve seen to little of them to have an informed opinion.

    Hewitt and Downey were reliable if memory serves but probably not huge losses.

    Daniel and McLeod weren’t unexpected. They’re not getting any younger and have both been great servants to the Sharks but need to be allowed their opportunities to earn some foreign currency.

    Whitehead was simply a victim of the Sharks currently having way too many good options at centre. I really like Tim but it’s not a situation I’ll complain about.

    Kankowski, Pietersen and (hopefully) Steyn will be back for Super Rugby and I wouldn’t be surprised if Jake provides them with some instructions for coming back in a better condition than this year.

  • Comment 12, posted at 09.06.14 11:24:34 by vanmartin Reply
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  • These mass exodus which happens – apparently every single year – if not at the Bulls (2011 and 2013), then at the Sharks – really cripples the side for at least one currie cup. Add injuries to those listed and any development which took place over the years are fast tracked with the speed of light.
    Result is management look crap. The case was true last year at the Bulls – which they did manage to rectify to an extent this year, but the Sharks have brand spanking new management and seemed to have worked hard to establish a winning culture. That is why it is a bit baffling that so many are leaving.

  • Comment 13, posted at 09.06.14 11:31:19 by Blue Centurion Reply

    Blue CenturionCurrie Cup player
     
  • So here’s an interesting thought. We’re going to have a new debut captain (if i’m not mistaken) at the Sharks. Who do you guys want to see promoted to lead the Sharks for their CC title defence?

    My first guess would be Kyle, but I wouldn’t mind Tera either. Both extremely hard working players that can lead by example IMO.

  • Comment 14, posted at 09.06.14 11:43:33 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 14) : I’m not sure you are completely right about that.

    I can think of an obvious captaincy candidate who has done the job before and will pretty much be a guaranteed starter given his experience in a very young squad.

    Know who I’m talking about?

  • Comment 15, posted at 09.06.14 11:46:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 15) : Monday mornings… Botes!

  • Comment 16, posted at 09.06.14 11:50:40 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 15) : Botes if playing will captain or Odwa. I wonder how many locks the Sharks have let go these last say 3-5 years…at least 10 probably. These exits could leave our u21 side quite under strength this years CC. So using who is left: Chadwick,Cooper,Stevens,Lewies,??, Botes, Kleinhans,Mthembu, Reinach, Zeilinga,Odwa,Williams,Esterhuizen,??, SP Marais

  • Comment 17, posted at 09.06.14 12:16:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKSuper Rugby player
     
  • I actually dont think our CC side will be as bad as some want to imply. We might struggle a bit but I still see a semi final spot for us.

  • Comment 18, posted at 09.06.14 12:32:11 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 17) : “Lewies,??” Oosthuizen should still be there shouldnt he, or is he also taking a break with his mentor.

  • Comment 19, posted at 09.06.14 12:32:16 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • Tough to loose this number of quality players all in one go, for sure. But I am also looking forward to who stands up and takes their oppotunities of those who have to step up.

    Personally I hope they look first at the youngsters who can come through the ranks before going outside and buying in a whole lot of players.

  • Comment 20, posted at 09.06.14 12:38:49 by stevovo Reply

    stevovoVodacom Cup player
     
  • I’d like to see something like this:

    15 Marais 14 Ndungane 13 Jordaan 12 Williams 11 Maseko 10 Zeilinga 9 Reinach 8 Mtembu 7 Meyer 6 Botes (capt) 5 Lewies 4 Oosthuizen 3 Adriaanse 2 Cooper 1 Chadwick

    16 Hadebe 17 du Toit 18 Stevens 19 Koegelenberg 20 Kleinhans 21 Underer 22 Swiel 23 van Tonder

    Other players to get a proper look in:
    Danie Mienie, Franco Marais, Wiehan Hey, Dan du Preez, Jean-Luc du Preez, Khaya Majola, Hanco Venter, Cameron Wright, Jean-Luc du Plessis, Andre Esterhuizen, Tyler Fisher, Sean Robinson

    decent enough squad for a semi at least.

  • Comment 21, posted at 09.06.14 12:43:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 19) : Yeh true forgot about him…i just assume all locks leave unless stated otherwise haha

  • Comment 22, posted at 09.06.14 12:45:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : Yeh flip i forgot about a few of those names. I dont rate Hadebe im afraid. Otherwise looks pretty decent

  • Comment 23, posted at 09.06.14 12:47:14 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : That is by no means a bad squad for the CC.

  • Comment 24, posted at 09.06.14 12:49:51 by Another Nick Reply

    Another NickCurrie Cup player
     
  • @stevovo (Comment 20) : @robdylan (Comment 21) : Looks decent, but our Vodacom Cup side have left a big worry after their last 2 outings and we will have to rely heavily on many of them. Im backing Esterhuizen to come through and make the centre conundrum even more exciting come 2015.

  • Comment 25, posted at 09.06.14 12:51:05 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 22) : :grin:

  • Comment 26, posted at 09.06.14 12:53:21 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : Tonderai is still in the mix right? That’s a guy I want to see more of.

  • Comment 27, posted at 09.06.14 13:02:22 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 27) : oh yes, of course.

    Sorry, there’s always one guy I forget. This time around it was him

  • Comment 28, posted at 09.06.14 13:18:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • going to be rather interesting seeing our young pack scrumming against the Lions…

  • Comment 29, posted at 09.06.14 13:21:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : Very decent squad.

  • Comment 30, posted at 09.06.14 13:22:03 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : That’s what we want to see in CC…the young hungry players showing what they’re made off.

    This year I would like the Sharks Boks to be completely rested from CC rugby. Let the talented young guys prove their mettle.

  • Comment 31, posted at 09.06.14 14:08:54 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 21) :

    So Swiel moves from (WP) bench to (Sharks) bench? If you don’t want to use him give him to the Cheetahs :twisted:

  • Comment 32, posted at 09.06.14 14:10:45 by Morné Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 31) :

    Rested? Is Jake going to be around? :lol:

  • Comment 33, posted at 09.06.14 14:11:38 by Morné Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 27) : I agree 100%. Tonderai really impressed me in the game he played before he got injured. He was always looking to offload in the tackle which not many players do in South Africa.

    @FireTheLooser (Comment 31) : The Boks mustn’t play at all. It was plain to see on Saturday, against the World XV, that Beast, Bissie and Jannie are tired and need a rest. They look flat and got their asses handed to them!

  • Comment 34, posted at 09.06.14 14:18:00 by ChrisS Reply
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    ChrisSCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 33) : Good question, I asked it the other day, “does anyone know how long Jakes contract is with the Sharks” …no answer so I presume that he could be off whenever and if that is the case then Jake may feel that he has to win the SupeRugby trophy now and thus will play his best players at all times. I dont have any problem with this, his duty is to the Sharks and if that brings us 2 trophies this year then I am happy.

  • Comment 35, posted at 09.06.14 14:23:00 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 32) : The tsietas will chase him off to Racing Metro ;-)

    @Morné (Comment 33) : Maybe he’ll be sipping on umbrella drinks while BMH runs the show. I hope JW’s learned his lesson from the Streamers game.

    @ChrisS (Comment 34) : Agreed 100%.

  • Comment 36, posted at 09.06.14 14:25:13 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 35) : Think his contract will run until he receives an offer to coach international rugby.

    Unlike Mallet, JW is not scared of coaching international rugby.

  • Comment 37, posted at 09.06.14 14:28:08 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 33) : Shouldnt HM be resting Frans Steyn?

  • Comment 38, posted at 09.06.14 14:30:13 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 37) : Yep and thats why he would go full out to try and win this darn competition now.

  • Comment 39, posted at 09.06.14 14:34:19 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 39) : I can’t see him getting an international offer form any of the wc hopeful countries before the 2015 wc.

    Let’s face it, if Argentina… Italy… Scotland… Fiji… Samoa or Japan come knocking, JW won’t be answering the door. Well maybe Argentina, if he’s allowed to overhaul their entire rugby structure, which they desperately require.

  • Comment 40, posted at 09.06.14 14:48:38 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • As far as I know, White’s contract is for 2 years. There’s probably a crap load of clauses saying this and that. But for now we have untill the end of the WC next year.

  • Comment 41, posted at 09.06.14 14:56:07 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 38) :

    Why should the National Coach rest players he only has for a maximum of 12 games in a year where they represent the country as the National Team?

    And in the case of Frans why should he rest him if his provincial coach does not rest him (or any other player for that matter).

  • Comment 42, posted at 09.06.14 15:20:30 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 42) : Agreed

  • Comment 43, posted at 09.06.14 15:29:56 by Bokhoring Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 42) : The only reason I ask is because the Bok camp made a big song and dance about how Steyn was injured and needed rest, since then he has been practicing and playing full out while the chronic injury remains.

  • Comment 44, posted at 09.06.14 15:30:39 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 42) : Agree as well. I dont see why provincial coaches, especially those still with a shout of winning the competition, should rest players – just like the Bok coach they too have to live and die by their results.

  • Comment 45, posted at 09.06.14 15:33:55 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • To win The World Cup you need to play 7 games in 6 weeks,7 hard full tests.
    Surely Muppet Meyer cannot believe that Victor ,Schalk and Jean de Villiers are capable of doing this.
    Other playersin his Saturday team that are never going to go that distance must be Jannie, Guthro,Habbanna andMorne Steyn,the glass boy Goosen and the perennially injured Coennie
    Oosthuizen.
    What is this guy doing,he should have his team in place for 2015 by now,yet he keep[s returning to Jakes team of 8 years ago.

  • Comment 46, posted at 09.06.14 15:41:30 by The hound Reply

    The houndCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 44) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 45) : Like a boss ;-)

  • Comment 47, posted at 09.06.14 15:52:01 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • No ways the coach of the top team in the comp has to rest players so they can be fit for a W XV exhibition match. If that must be the attitude, then I overestimated the importance of Super Rugby.

  • Comment 48, posted at 09.06.14 15:59:26 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 48) : If it was PdV, then the typical HM fanboys would have been singing a whole other anti-Bok song….back then, bulls rugby came first.

  • Comment 49, posted at 09.06.14 16:17:41 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 48) : @FireTheLooser (Comment 49) : Agree, then SR has suddenly got no value at all. funny this tune was not being sung when Stormers or Bulls were on top.

  • Comment 50, posted at 09.06.14 17:34:20 by sharks_lover Reply

    sharks_loverTeam captain
     
  • National teams should always take priority. Provincial coaches may not agree but that’s mainly because they don’t implement proper rotation policies.

  • Comment 51, posted at 09.06.14 17:41:51 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 50) : They just absolutely hate the fact that SR 2014 will be chalked up to the “maybe next year” board.

    As for us, there will be – at the bare minimum – a home qtr. final. :cool:

  • Comment 52, posted at 09.06.14 17:48:01 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • Rotation is not a bad thing in terms of the Super 15 either. Starting a couple of fresh players (e.g. front row) against the Stormers could not have had a worse result than what we actually got.

  • Comment 53, posted at 09.06.14 17:49:28 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringTeam captain
     
  • Rob – I see that Frans changed from ??? to Yes under the Return to Super column. Has it been confirmed that he will miss the RC?

  • Comment 54, posted at 09.06.14 17:54:18 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 44) :

    They manage him game to game, same Jake did/does. Same reason our players break down.

    Alberts, Bismarck, Jannie, Vermeulen will break down before this year is out.

  • Comment 55, posted at 09.06.14 17:54:22 by Morné Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 45) :

    What is bigger, provincial or national cause?

    Also, how do you rotate when you only have maximum 30 to 35 players (squad) for 12 games, or 3 months of the year where in that time you travel 30%, juggle media and public commitments for 30% and try and get some game plan in the remaining 20% that is not taken up by the actual game and game-days?

    But it is not new and not only relative to the Sharks (who has the most Boks currently in the setup), provincialism and club before country is nothing new in the SA game.

    It will change in 2016.

  • Comment 56, posted at 09.06.14 18:02:18 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 56) : Can you elaborate on the 2016 comment? Sounds promising!

  • Comment 57, posted at 09.06.14 18:11:55 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 56) : Central contracting?

  • Comment 58, posted at 09.06.14 18:12:58 by Bokhoring Reply

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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 50) : funny that hey,and no stupid Bok camps held before Bullarina games hey,what nonsense,Sharks way before nonsense Bok rugby

  • Comment 59, posted at 09.06.14 18:17:33 by benji Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 57) : @Bokhoring (Comment 58) :

    I don’t think it is necessary to elaborate really. You okes are clever enough it seems ;)

  • Comment 60, posted at 09.06.14 18:23:35 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 60) : I so wish you could give us the details with regards to how it will be deployed.

    Would love to know whether there will be a draft system, to ensure the best players in the country get game time.

    Seems the planning for this has been going for a while, as you have mentioned some time ago already that 2016 will be the year of fully professional rugby in SA.

    Let’s hope it is successful.

  • Comment 61, posted at 09.06.14 18:35:26 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 61) :

    At this stage I cannot. But it has implications from U16 level to Springbok rugby.

  • Comment 62, posted at 09.06.14 18:45:26 by Morné Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 61) :

    And yes, a lot of hard work has gone, is going into it.

  • Comment 63, posted at 09.06.14 18:46:25 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 62) : @Morné (Comment 63) : Awesome. My thanks and appreciation to all individuals (yourself included I assume) putting in the hard work to make this happen.

  • Comment 64, posted at 09.06.14 19:53:33 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Only three guy leaving for local clubs/province rest going overseas. Almost equal split between Europe and Japan, Euro and Yen talking hard!!!!

  • Comment 65, posted at 09.06.14 20:03:02 by JD Reply
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  • Will SARU in all their infinite wisdom decide who plays for which team,? Like commies? And have a bigger say in how the franchises go about there business? And we should be excited??

  • Comment 66, posted at 09.06.14 20:40:45 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 66) : that’s going to be fun!?!?!?!?

  • Comment 67, posted at 09.06.14 21:08:45 by JD Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 66) :

    You are aware that ‘SARU’ in ‘their infinite wisdom’ currently are actually the unions (like the Sharks) ‘in their infinite wisdom’ making executive decisions that influences our game?

    Perhaps we should pray that a ‘SARU’ can actually make executive decisions as an actual governing body for once?

    A thought.

  • Comment 68, posted at 09.06.14 21:13:29 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 68) : problem is the smaller unions have the same say as the big unions. If they stand together they could fuck it up royally for the Super rugby franchises! !!!!

  • Comment 69, posted at 09.06.14 21:20:36 by JD Reply
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  • Anyone else see the article on SuperSport website with regards to Ralepelle testing positive for a ban substance?!?!?!

  • Comment 70, posted at 09.06.14 21:53:10 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 69) :

    And what should we base the ‘biggest say’ on? Results? Player numbers? GDP? Geography?

    All those factors, and some more, has a real impact on the sustainability of the game in the long run and the impact of the game economically.

    For instance, results change from season to season – this year the Sharks are on top, last year the Bulls, and the two years before the Stormers.

    If we go on player numbers (sustaining the game by ensuring participation) then all unions apart from SWD, Border, EP, WP and Boland are in big shit.

    If we go on GDP or the economical angle then the Cheetahs (highest most recent Bok player contributors), Griquas and the whole of the Eastern Cape (largest youth player base) including Boland (most club players) and Mpumalanga (recently promoted to the Currie Cup) are in serious shit. In fact, the only union not in debt are the Griffons!

    So who is fucking what up for who and on what basis?

    It is not always that clear cut.

  • Comment 71, posted at 09.06.14 22:11:20 by Morné Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 66) : I don’t know about that. We can’t on the one hand complain about the Bulls buying up every promising youngster or the fact that there is no parity between provincial and national coaches and then criticize central contracting/drafting. A bit of having and eating of cake going on there. A lot of the top sporting codes and and the top rugby country employ some form of it. Why wouldn’t it be good enough for us? Every SARU decision cannot be viewed as a potential threat to the Sharks. History tells us that the Sharks have been their own worst enemy to date.

  • Comment 72, posted at 09.06.14 22:52:49 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 71) : Each team should be allowed to contract their own players. If SARU must decide who plays where it could happen that some of the small unions stand together and assign players like Eben to Boland or Pat to SWD, and boet I did not accused anyone of fucking it up I said they could.

  • Comment 73, posted at 09.06.14 23:08:03 by JD Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 72) : I don’t have a problem with Bok coach working closely with provincial coaches to create some sort of unity in coaching, but players must decide for themselves where they want to play.
    Drafting a player into a team he does not want to play for will not be good for the player or the team. How do you think Vic will feel about playing for WP?!?!?!
    BTW you don’t think with the allocation of Bok contracts to certain players SA already have a central contracting system?!?!

  • Comment 74, posted at 09.06.14 23:18:15 by JD Reply
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  • SARU has to come up with a retention plan to counter the European/ Japanese and Even Ausie exit. But then again we live in a professional era and any player that does not make it in the National squads will consider the lure of really good rewards overseas.

    Great coaches build great teams over time. The sharks have now purged itself and hopefully start rebuilding a great team. Purging includes the probable departure of the Duplessis’s, Beast , Odwa, Willem, Marcelle( looks like he is not going to the world cup ?) etc after the world cup. They have reached an age where they need to earn some hard currency!

    Great concern is the continuity in coaching. Plum, Brendon, Jake and now Brad for CC ? Jake should have taken the youngsters( we have immense talent) during the CC. But the again he has put his foot in it to many times publicly that he will leave for an international job ! And really with all the will in the world brad is certainly not our future.

    Good luck to everybody leaving and all the best overseas, I trust you will miss Durban, braaivleis, biltong etc…… Most of you helped us to win the Curie Cup and served the sharks well! Bon Voyage !

  • Comment 75, posted at 10.06.14 06:05:54 by Observer Reply

    ObserverVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 55) : Thats right, they manage him in the same way as the Sharks do, thats why I wonder about the motive for making a song and dance about it in the press at the first training camp basically telling SA that the Sharks are playing Steyn with an injury. The Sharks as a union took a lot of flak for that and then some more when they selected Steyn for the game thereafter.

  • Comment 76, posted at 10.06.14 08:16:47 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 56) : Country or province, for the country coach – always the country, for the provincial coach it would be his current team, especially if they remain in playoff contention.

    On a personal note I hardly get excited about Bok rugby anymore, yes there is a bit of enthusiasm come Rugby Championship time and definitely during world cup years. I have very little real enthusiasm for these mid year and end of the year games against watered down opposition. They just dont do it for me, and judging by the crowd attendance, for many others. Its sad, I hardly get excited about our annual games against the Aussies and the All Blacks….call it overkill.

    What I do get excited about is a genuine tour ala the British Lions but those are few and far between.

  • Comment 77, posted at 10.06.14 08:36:11 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 74) : Bok contracts should not be confused with central contracting. Each player with a Bok contract is still contracted to their individual union and thus cannot be managed centrally. The provincial union has carte blanche on how and when to use the player as they see fit. As a result their is very little cooperation between national and provincial teams. That situation won’t change as long as the provincial coaches have the final say. Central contracting results in better management of your top players meaning longer playing careers. That’s good news for the player, province and country.

  • Comment 78, posted at 10.06.14 08:50:53 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 78) : I have a vague understanding of central contracting, maybe someone can do step by step article on it. If I do read between the lines though I get the idea that the overlords (lets call them SARU) have control of how their minnions (Sharks) pick, train and play their players. Would this be correct or am I ascribing too much authority/influence to SARU here.

  • Comment 79, posted at 10.06.14 09:06:15 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 79) : You are spot on,the Cheats(NZ)have a similar system in place but even then the lure of the Euro and Yen is starting to take effect there

  • Comment 80, posted at 10.06.14 09:09:50 by benji Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • Bokkies won 21-8

  • Comment 81, posted at 10.06.14 09:16:33 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringTeam captain
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 81) : Cool, I forgot it was on.

  • Comment 82, posted at 10.06.14 09:20:02 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 82) : Unfortunately it did not show on my usual streaming site – so I could not watch

  • Comment 83, posted at 10.06.14 09:21:07 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringTeam captain
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 83) : I have no idea of what fixtures are when. Have NZ played yet and what hneeds to happen fro them not to qualify. I dont see the need to have to beat them twice to win the title – mind you that could also be fun.

  • Comment 84, posted at 10.06.14 09:28:46 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • NZ playing Scotland shortly. They have 5 log point so can only get up to a total of 10 – meaning they will end up the same as Australia.

    I am not sure how the qualification for the semi-finals work though. I assume SA, England and Ireland are through (top of each pool), and either NZ or Aus

  • Comment 85, posted at 10.06.14 09:36:48 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 76) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 77) :

    You don’t see it hey?

    It is easy to criticize the ‘tail wagging the dog’ when it is smaller unions vs. bigger franchises, but when the tail (franchises) wags the dog (Springboks) all is fine…

    And that is why our rugby will never compete with NZ consistently.

  • Comment 86, posted at 10.06.14 09:43:21 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
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  • @Morné (Comment 86) : We are South African, we are provincial beings, thats how it is.
    Maybe they should just finish playing the SuperRugby competition first and then play their “test” and then go straight into the RC, that way the franchise coaches can do what they have to and then the Bok coach can do his thing.

  • Comment 87, posted at 10.06.14 09:59:54 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 79) : Based on what I’ve seen from the NZ system, it’s more a case of cooperative player management taking place. More along the lines of a player can play x amount of games or hours per year (something Prof Noakes pointed out ages ago), of those x hours/games the province will you use a certain percentage and the rest would go to the national team. As a byproduct, it enforces another thing we’ve all praised Brendan Venter for, good rotation policies and contingency plans at provincial level. I’m by no means saying it’s a perfect system but I honestly believe it’s far better compared to what we currently have.

  • Comment 88, posted at 10.06.14 10:00:49 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 88) : Well it sounds as if it will have major benefits for the players and the foreign clubs that will buy them. Im not sure that it will actually benefit the franchises not having their best available at all times, especially with all the local derby’s we play. Is this maybe a reason why New Zealand games are so poorly attended.

  • Comment 89, posted at 10.06.14 10:11:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 89) : If franchises have their best available at all times and their coach isn’t Brendan Venter they will abuse that availability. So many examples of this currently happening at the Sharks, Stormers and Bulls. I am convinced that in the long term the SA franchises will benefit more than anyone else.

  • Comment 90, posted at 10.06.14 10:32:12 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 87) :

    The system benefits BOTH the national and franchise teams. Players don’t burn out playing certain types of games (CC, SR or Tests), they burn out or break because they play too much of all the games with zero effective and controlled conditioning and recovery plans in place.

    Fierce provincialism was born out of rugby isolation. That is now over 20 years ago. It is time we move on and do this professionally.

  • Comment 91, posted at 10.06.14 10:33:46 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 90) : Maybe abuse is a harsh word, but no doubt our coaches will play who they feel is the best player for that specific game, more say when their team is still in contention to win the competition- the coach cant be faulted for this.

  • Comment 92, posted at 10.06.14 10:41:10 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 90) : @Morné (Comment 91) : The way things are going in SA at the moment with our rand going backwards all we will be doing is exporting a better rested product to a foreign club who may get more out of him than what his SA club did.

    That fierce provincialism is also putting bums on seats at stadiums. the amount of interest in the Stormers – Bulls game is already very high and tickets are apparently only going on sale as of 12.00 today … and both teams are effectively out of competition contention.

  • Comment 93, posted at 10.06.14 10:46:02 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 93) :

    Fierce provincialism is great, as long as it is not at the expense of the National team. Then no-one wins.

  • Comment 94, posted at 10.06.14 10:48:26 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 93) :

    A more central method of control also has a very direct, and very positive influence on a player’s salary which is currently not the case. Franchises operate on or below the breadline I promise you.

  • Comment 95, posted at 10.06.14 10:49:41 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 92) : No doubt about that, they are judged on what they achieve with the resources at their disposal. It’s not an ideal system. That’s why I think an outside authority is necessary to manage the most valuable of those resources. It takes some responsibility off the coaches’ shoulders.

  • Comment 96, posted at 10.06.14 10:50:45 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 93) :

    Last thing on this because I think we have exhausted the topic.

    Although money is always a factor for a player with a limited career, players also leave to escape the unrealistic demands of the local game.

    I mean choose between earning R4-mil and play 35 games with virtually no off season or R6-mil and only play 12 to 15 games a year with 3 months of recovery and rest.

    Math is really simple even for props :)

  • Comment 97, posted at 10.06.14 10:53:45 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 96) :

    NZ contract their franchise coaches, so coaches are not under pressure from their union executives.

  • Comment 98, posted at 10.06.14 10:54:44 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 92) : The Kiwis have been running a central contracting system for years, and at the same time have been dominating Super Rugby and Rugby Championship.

  • Comment 99, posted at 10.06.14 10:54:55 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 91) : So it will basically be like the cricket in SA.

    Though provincial cricket in SA is about as boring as I can think of, sure hope our franchise games won’t be turned into the same dull affair.

    Also, don’t think NZ is the best example, they’ve been managing Read, yet he’s injured again….and they still lose players at a dizzying rate.

    Another thing: I assume certain players will receive centralised contracts, but what happens when a franchise is able to pay their players more than the central contracted player is paid?

    Is that a possibility, or can’t it happen at all?

  • Comment 100, posted at 10.06.14 10:59:16 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 100) :

    NZ retain a hell of a lot more than we do bud.

    Injuries happen, part of the game. Playing with chronic injuries and breaking down completely because of poor conditioning and rehab is quite another story.

    If franchises had that kind of money, you wouldn’t be losing the amount of players this article shows.

  • Comment 101, posted at 10.06.14 11:02:24 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 101) : So all-in-all, franchises will be able to retain more players, due to less strain on their budget, because of the big name players being centrally contracted.

  • Comment 102, posted at 10.06.14 11:15:49 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 102) :

    It really depends which approach is taken. Central contracting is not only relevant to players, you can also look at your coaching and medical staff in this model.

    But essentially, strains on budgets for salaries (which is around 75% of total budgets for franchises last I heard) will ease tremendously.

  • Comment 103, posted at 10.06.14 11:29:04 by Morné Reply
    Administrator
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 98) : Thanks, had no idea.

  • Comment 104, posted at 10.06.14 11:34:16 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • So the Bokkies play NZ again in the semi-finals, and England play Ireland in the other.

  • Comment 105, posted at 10.06.14 12:37:35 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringTeam captain
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 105) : Possible SA – England final then. Should be good.

  • Comment 106, posted at 10.06.14 13:12:53 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    vanmartinTeam captain
     
  • Just as I predicted, treating the younger Marais like shit at the Sharks sees him off to greener pastures…..when will these sides ever learn to look after their players?

  • Comment 107, posted at 10.06.14 14:04:14 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Saffex (Comment 107) : ja it’s bad, wonder how long the youngest brother will last?!?!?!

  • Comment 108, posted at 10.06.14 15:04:48 by JD Reply
    Author
    JDTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 101) : But we have about 80 000 more registered players than them, we could effectively be losing approximately 6 x their total and actually still be on par with them percentage wise.

  • Comment 109, posted at 10.06.14 16:00:39 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 102) : @Morné (Comment 103) : So its win win all round then, I wonder why it has not been done earlier.

  • Comment 110, posted at 10.06.14 16:03:28 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 110) : The skeptic inside me is still a bit apprehensive regarding this change, as the top cats at SARU could always turn into SASCOC and athletics SA…..we all know how well they’ve acquitted themselves of their duties. :|

  • Comment 111, posted at 10.06.14 16:47:13 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 111) : Me too, but Im trying to like it.

    If at anytime I get the feeling that the Sharks (or any other union for that matter) are not really the Sharks (other union) any more then that will be it for me and the sport. As it is, Im getting more enjoyment from watching school boy rugby these days, and that is not necessary the big traditional schools either.

  • Comment 112, posted at 10.06.14 16:56:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply

    Salmonoid the SubtleTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 110) :

    Power – unions surrender power to control players.

  • Comment 113, posted at 10.06.14 17:38:14 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 113) : rugby is a business and in what other business do you surrender control over your most valuable assist?!?!?!?!

  • Comment 114, posted at 10.06.14 20:45:33 by JD Reply
    Author
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  • @JD (Comment 114) : Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Checks and balances are always a good idea in these cases.

    JD, serious question. Do you honestly think NZ is on the wrong path with central contracting? Their results say otherwise.

  • Comment 115, posted at 10.06.14 21:02:35 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 115) : Financially they’re not nearly as strong as us….and financially, I suppose the Poms are in the best position.

  • Comment 116, posted at 10.06.14 21:09:44 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 115) : yes and adding money tends to corrupt quicker! !!!!
    I don’t know anything about the NZ contracting system so I can comment on it but knowing how provincialistic SA is I’m a bit concerned about a possible lack of equality in the contracting system.

  • Comment 117, posted at 10.06.14 21:16:37 by JD Reply
    Author
    JDTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 116) : Not sure I’m following your reasoning here. It’s late, I need a little more to go on :)

  • Comment 118, posted at 10.06.14 21:17:12 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 117) : I’m all for any system that does not allow the Bulls to buy every promising youngster. At the very least we can’t condemn until we’ve seen it in action is what I’m thinking.

  • Comment 119, posted at 10.06.14 21:19:52 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 119) : I’m not condemning it I’m just cautious.
    With regards to one team buying all the young players I think a good solution would be a salary cap on how much O/19 and O/20 players can be paid.

  • Comment 120, posted at 10.06.14 21:26:50 by JD Reply
    Author
    JDTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 118) : NZ might be doing better than anyone results wise, but it hasn’t translated into financial gains….SA is still the money behind the SR and Rugby Championship, as our rugby generates the most money.

    So central contracting success is relative to what we see as being successful.

  • Comment 121, posted at 10.06.14 21:28:29 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 120) : And then I have to listen to NZ commentators talking about the Bulls’ great age group identification program :roll:

    Ja, it’s called handing out contracts to 120-odd youngsters every year, ensuring that the talent not playing for you, can’t compete against you.

  • Comment 122, posted at 10.06.14 21:30:46 by FireTheLooser Reply

    FireTheLooserTeam captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 120) : Apologies. Poor word choice on my part, I shouldn’t be posting when I’m this tired :) .

  • Comment 123, posted at 10.06.14 21:31:27 by vanmartin Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 123) : no problem my friend I know what you meant to say so everything’s fine ;-)

  • Comment 124, posted at 10.06.14 21:36:01 by JD Reply
    Author
    JDTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 121) : Thanks for elaborating. I’m obviously interested in results as first priority but I don’t see our financial gain be impacted by central contracting. We have Supersport to thank for that as I understand it. Very interesting point none the less.

  • Comment 125, posted at 10.06.14 21:36:13 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 122) : hahaha ja boet easy to “identify talent” if you buy every youngster playing provincial rugby.

  • Comment 126, posted at 10.06.14 21:39:36 by JD Reply
    Author
    JDTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 121) : @vanmartin (Comment 125) : hope the decisions they make with regards to the central contracting is better than the ones they made with regards to adding a sixth Super rugby franchise! !!!!!!

  • Comment 127, posted at 10.06.14 22:01:38 by JD Reply
    Author
    JDTeam captain
     
  • Maybe Sharks must do like WP and buy some mercenaries. What is old freddie michelak doing these days? We could also try some overseas SA players eager to get back into action. You gave us the bad news how about balancing it with good news. Who are the new signings and young hopefulls?

  • Comment 128, posted at 12.06.14 09:52:02 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionVodacom Cup player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 128) : French Freddie is pocketing money for doing nothing as he can’t even make the bench at Toulon. I do think Sharks will be ok as most positions is well covered and the players leaving seems to be disregarded by JW. Only exception to this might be loose forward but there the Sbarks could also be ok with some youngsters eager to show what they have waiting in the dark.

  • Comment 129, posted at 12.06.14 16:24:01 by JD Reply
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