Two more Super Rugby regulars will leave South African shores to take up French contracts on conclusion of the 2014 Super Rugby season, according to reports.
Cheetahs number 8 Philip van der Walt – only 24 and just the sort of player one would expect to come strongly into the national reckoning – has opted to continue his career with Biarritz in the South West of France. Van der Walt apparently turned down a move to the Sharks (who are themselves losing two stalwart loose forwards to Japan later this year) in order to take up the French offer.
Stormers (and former Sharks) prop Pat Cilliers is apparently also moving on, heading to Montpellier.
Currently well under Heyneke Meyer’s radar, Cilliers clearly believes that playing in the same team as Wynand Olivier will help him move back into the national selection frame, since Meyer is clearly far more likely to watch them than he is the Stormers.
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“Currently well under Heyneke Meyer’s radar, Cilliers clearly believes that playing in the same team as Wynand Olivier will help him move back into the national selection frame, since Meyer is clearly far more likely to watch them than he is the Stormers.”
hahaa
Beautiful bit of sarcasm Rob…if we can’t laugh about it, we’d be a rather dull people.
According to Beeld, for what that’s worth, Paul Willemse is negotiating with Grenoble
@Baylion (Comment 3) : it rains it pours
I wonder how long before SARU drops the requirement that only capped Boks can be considered for a Bok team while playing overseas.
And the player drain continues. Only going to get worse.
I hope Meyer enjoys sitting in the ashes of the SA rugby landscape he created, crying softly and whispering to himself ‘What have I done?’
I see that OZ has taken a “hardline” stance on not only foreign players, but even player sabbaticals as their rugby boss (Pulver) believes it will harm their domestic competition.
Clearly SARU is not interested in our domestic competition anymore, as we are losing local players in droves…a lot of these local players should have been selected to at least join the bok squad.
Ebersohn and vd Walt both gave everything in hopes of a deserved Bok call up, but even that was not enough….can’t blame these players for giving up on their childhood dreams.
there must be over 50 south African players playing oversees by now.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 7) : I wonder should Ebersohn still have been in SA this year, if HM would have selected him this Saturday rather than Wynand?
@MJ (Comment 8) : A while ago there were about 165 SA players overseas:
Gert Muller Bayonne
Ross Skeate Agen
Conrad Barnard Agen
Burton Francis Agen
Wessel Jooste Agen
Louis Ludik Agen
Stephan Gerber Aurillac
Lee Adriaanse Aurillac
Delkeith Pottas Aurillac
Jakobus Kemp Aurillac
Arno Coetzee Aurillac
Wicus Blaauw Biairritz
Eugene van Staden Biairritz
Joe Pietersen Biairritz
Brett Sharman Bath
Nick Koster Bath
Francois Louw Bath
Michael Claassens Toulon
Dewald Senekal Bayonne
Scott Spedding Bayonne
Sam Gerber Bayonne
JC Janse van Rensburg Bayonne
Darryl Veenendal Bedford
Nico Steenkamp Bedford
Harry Vermaas Beziers
Luan Velthuizen Beziers
Wouter Moore Beziers
Henk Eksteen Beziers
Danré Gerber Beziers
Heini Adams Bordeaux
Jandré Marais Bordeaux
Retief Uys Brive
Petrus Hauman Brive
Kevin Buys Brive
Riaan Swanepoel Brive
Andries Kruger Carcassone
Andries Pretorius Cardiff
Michael Coetzee Castres
Jannie Bornman Castres
Antonie Claassen Castres
Pedrie Wannenburg Castres
Rory Kockott Castres
George Marich Castres
Daniel Kotze Clermont
Gerhard Vosloo Clermont
Rudi Brits Colomiers
Len Olivier Colomiers
Jeffrey Perkins Colomiers
Danie Poolman Connacht
Claude Dry Dax
Jacques Naude Dax
Marius Delport Dax
WP Nel Edinburgh
Greig Tonks Edinburgh
Izak van der Westehuizen Edinburgh
Josh Strauss Glasgow
Tyrone Holmes Glasgow
Nicolaas du Plessis Gran Ducato
Durandt Gerber Gran Ducato
Albertus Buckle Grenoble
Ruan du Preez Grenoble
Naude Beukes Grenoble
Altenstadt Hulme Grenoble
Roland Bernard Grenoble
Shaun Sowerby Grenoble
Rudi Coetzee Grenoble
Hendrik Roodt Grenoble
Rory Duncan Jubilo
Jaque Fourie Kobe Steel
Peter Grant Kobe Steel
Andries Bekker Kobe Steel
Cobus Grobler La Rochelle
Johan Wessels La Rochelle
Wylie Human Le Pays
Bertus Smit Le Pays
Sebastien de Chaves Leicester
Quinn Roux Leinster
Zane Kirchner Leinster
Coenraad Basson Lyon
Ricky Januarie Lyon
Ashley Clarke Massy
Wesley Dunlop Montauban
Rassie van Vuuren Montpellier
Drickus Hancke Montpellier
Paul Bosch Montpellier
JP du Plessis Montpellier
Wynand Olivier Montpellier
Robert Ebersohn Montpellier
BJ Botha Munster
CJ Stander Munster
Willem Harmse Narbonne
Jeandre Mynhardt Narbonne
Marno Meyer Narbonne
Gerrit-Jan van Velze Northampton
Heinrich Brussouw NTT Docomo Red Hurricanes
Jody Jenneker Oyonnax
Jan Volschenk Oyonnax
Leonard Olivier Oyonnax
Zane Ansell Padova
JP Pietersen Panasonic Wild Knights
Jacobus du Toit Pau
Danie Saayman Pau
Andre Hough Pau
Gavin Hume Clermont
Dewald Duvenhage Perpignan
Wandile Mjekevu Perpignan
Francois van de Merwe Racing
Bernard Le Roux Racing
Jacques Cronje Racing
Juandre Kruger Racing
Stefan Basson Rovigo
Corne Uys Sale
Schalk Brits Saracens
Alistair Hargreaves Saracens
Justin Melck Saracens
Nick Fenton-Wells Saracens
Ernst Joubert Saracens
Neil de Kok Saracens
Jacobie Adriaanse Scarlets
George Earle Scarlets
Johan Snyman Scarlets
Michael van Vuuren Stade Francais
Gerhard Mostert Stade Francais
Anton van Zyl Stade Francais
Meyer Bosman Stade Francais
Morne Steyn Stade Francais
Heinke van de Merwe Stade Francais
Pieter Grobler Stade Montois
Johannes Britz Stade Montois
Fourie du Preez Suntory Sungoliath
Cilliers Coetzer Tarbes
Werner Loftus Tarbes
Collen van Staden Tarbes
Pieter Terblanche Tarbes
Thomas Pieter Loftus Tarbes
Joe van Niekerk Toulon
Bakkies Botha Toulon
Danie Rossouw Toulon
Bryan Habana Toulon
Gurthro Steenkamp Toulouse
Gary Botha Toulouse
Chiliboy Ralapele Toulouse
Jano Vermaak Toulouse
Doppies Le Grange Treviso
Jacobus Roux Treviso
Rob Herring Ulster
Johann Muller Ulster
Robbie Diack Ulster
Ruan Pienaar Ulster
Joe van Niekerk (Centre) Venezia
Hendrik van Niekerk Venezia
Ryan Kankowski Verblitz
Adriaan Fondse Viadana
Ruehan van Jaarsveld Viadana
Jacques Potgieter Waratahs
Ashley Johnson Wasps
Sias Ebersohn Western Force
Wilhelm Steenkamp Western Force
Marcel Brache Western Force
Etienne Oosthuizen Western Force
Chris Heiberg Western Force
Errie Claassens Worcester
Dries van Schalkwyk Zebre
Zane Ansell Petrarca
@Baylion (Comment 10) : Where did you get all of this information? That’s quite a list!
@Baylion (Comment 10) : oh my word – what will we do without Zane Ansell?
@robdylan (Comment 12) :
@ChrisS (Comment 11) : http://www.wpclubrugby.co.za/Forums/f17/t49221/SA-rugby-players,-playing-abroad-.aspx and edited it last year. Haven’t updated it since Aug ’13
@PTAShark (Comment 6) : nah he wont be in ashes. The next guy will inherit such a mess that HM will look awesome by comparison. Everyone in snor city will remind us how great the Heyneke days were…
@West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 15) : He might not be, but our rugby teams sure are going to be.
1. Schalk Fereirra (Plays ahead of Gurthro at Toulouse)
Heinke van der Merwe
2. Craig Burden
Gary Botha
3. BJ Botha
Brian Mujati
4. Gerhard Mostert
Quinn Roux
5. Allistair Hargreaves
Juandre Kruger
6. Heinrich Brussouw
Roland Bernard
7. Juan Smith
Pedrie Wannenburg
8. CJ Stander
Jacques Cronje
9. Jano Vermaak
Rory Kockott
10. Peter Grant
Sias Ebersohn
11. Wandile Mjekevu
Danie Poolman
12. Meyer Bosman
Riaan Swanepoel
13. Robert Ebersohn
Marcel Brache
14. Joe Pietersen
Louis Ludik
15. Riaan Viljoen
Scott Spedding
I’ll rather just keep my mouth shut
We could put out a very interesting SA Overseas Team
That’s a lot of talent not being used.
@West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 15) : @PTAShark (Comment 16) : At least we know of a certain coach more than capable of rebuilding a demolished and depleted Springbok team….and not only rebuilding it against all odds with no support from anyone, but also going on to win the world cup.
can someone please remind me when this sideshow will be over, so we can watch some real rugby again?
@FireTheLooser (Comment 20) : There is no way in hell they give him that job back, not unless JS takes over at SARU…
Hell had to quickly check the link, for a second I thought I stumbled onto Keo’s website.
@Baylion (Comment 14) : Thanks. I’ll take a look at the site. I didn’t know about it.
Meyer is cocking up.
@Baylion (Comment 10) : bliksem
Sad to see that there is just no reward for guys staying in SA anymore, and this will keep happening until there is.
@Rob; use your stalking skills or whatever you have up your sleeves and tell us whats going on at the Tank, hows the injured coming along or something. All this Springbok talk is just frustrating a lot of us.
@JarsonX (Comment 28) : yes please anything please!!
If they are fishing what are they catching?
anything
@West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 21) : now you talking,all this Bok drivel coached by Huge Mistake whose only interest is his own win ratio at all cost, backed by a weak self serving SARU,eish GOD help SA rugby
Whenever I have a bad day at work I console myself with the thought that at least I’m not coaching the Boks.
@Baylion (Comment 10) : Holy smokes!
The other day my daughter and her friend was discussing some guy that is taking French at school so that it will be easier for him to play rugby in France eventually. I doubt that the particular player will one day be Bok material, but it did shock me that SA school kids are already planning for their careers in France.
What really pisses me off is there are rumors of some young Sharks in talks with French clubs.
@Bokhoring (Comment 33) : Let’s get down to brass tacks, our current exchange rate and SA’s financial outlook is a far bigger contributor to the local talent drain than the selection policies of a Bok coach. As long as we’re paying a minimum of ten of our coins for only one of theirs, this is the reality we’re faced with.
@vanmartin (Comment 35) : I am not blaming HM for the talent drain, but his selection policy as far as OSB is removing the only bargaining chip we have at this stage. Would a guy like Goosen have gone as readily over to France at this stage of his career, if he knew he would loose his Bok spot?
@JarsonX (Comment 28) : Saw an article on IOL regarding Lambie’s road to recovery…it says that due to the injury, he has had a lot more time to do fitness and gym training than he would have had otherwise.
So on the upside we should see Patrick Schwarzn-Lambie run out for the Sharks…no news on when exactly this will be though.
@Baylion that list is far from complete. I read a while ago that there are over 600 South Africans contracted to play rugby overseas. Many of the players never got close to Currie Cup rugby but can make a decent living playing in a second division club in Europe earning more than most currie cup players,
@Bokhoring (Comment 36) : Apologies, never meant to imply that you did. I just thought your raised an interesting point regarding school kids learning French to play overseas and wanted to expand on factors influencing a decision like that as such a young age.
Your point is a fair one and God help me but I think Keo came up with a good solution. Allowing older players to play overseas helps to extend their careers in addition to making sure they have good financial security when returning to SA, so why not change the selection policy to only allow for overseas-based selection once a player has earned a certain amount of caps in SA.
I don’t think players leaving for foreign clubs will ever go away. It’s a new reality we’re faced with now. Question is how do we best manage it in the interests of both country and player?
@vanmartin (Comment 39) : The best and only solution is to leave our arm gat cousins from down under and join the rich timezone-friendly North.
@West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 40) : I’ve always been interested by that idea. I’d miss some of the games against sides like the Crusaders and Chiefs but it might be better than the dull affair that SR has turned into. Wonder if SARU is considering the idea at all?
@vanmartin (Comment 41) : I would also miss those games, but we must go where the money is. Besides we will quickly build new rivalries. Imagine Stade vs Sharks in front of 80 000! Now we talking
@West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 42) : If Rob can organise some prizes that involves free tickets, flight and accommodation for the Stade game, I am so in
Seriously though, there might be a lot of merit to games of this nature. I reckon a Stade game in SA would draw a lot of foreign fans here. The exchange rate would suit those fans very well.
Van der Walt is going to be a huge loss for the Cheetahs. It’s a real pity the Sharks could not get him to move to Durbs, maybe he was thinking of playing for France as it seems the Bok coach is not interested in him?!?!
@JD (Comment 44) : I expect any day to hear the news that Lappies Labuschagne is also moving to France.
@Baylion (Comment 10) : geez that a lot, some nice players in there, others I don’t even know and some I wish I did not know.
@ChrisS (Comment 45) : ja think some players that feels they will not be in the Bok group for World cup might decide to move overseas before the end of the year.
@West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 42) : @vanmartin (Comment 41) : due you think the quality of the Northern Hemisphere would match that of the Southern Hemisphere,I don’t believe so?
@benji (Comment 48) : quality up north is much better these days with all the world players going to play there.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 37) :
Quite correct, guys that did not even play Vodacom Cup earns a comfortable salary in Europe with a house and car sponsored. Some of them will never have even made a Currie Cup side.
We discussed this before about a week ago – players move for two reasons – money (the top Boks can earn 3 times overseas than what they do in SA and that includes the franchise and Bok contracts combined), and an easier workload.
The one post here was quite correct, the figure is closer to 600 than it is to 300 players that play overseas – of that, about 10% are guys that played in our two elite competitions (CC and Super Rugby).
Numbers are deceiving a bit though.
Our estimated player numbers (senior, this means club and up) are around 80 000 to 100 000 (we are about 250 000 in total, don’t believe the IRB numbers) – 0.75% of this (around 600) plays abroad and even less (around 0.125% – I worked on a 100 which I think is way too high) are the pro’s that has a semi-good, or good chance (or have already been capped) to make the Boks.
@Morné (Comment 50) : how’s Bloem?
@JD (Comment 51) :
Effing cold – but back in CPT already.
@Morné (Comment 50) :
Do you feel SA will e able to keep up our standard of super rugby with all the players leaving ?
@Zibbie (Comment 53) :
SA still has a good supply chain through schools, clubs and comps like the Varsity Cup. We are much better off than our ANZAC cousins I can tell you that much.
But in no way is this ideal whichever way you look at it. Firstly we need to make sure our breeding structures remain in tact and luckily events like the Craven Week has huge importance in our country still – but school numbers are dropping dramatically.
Southern Hemisphere rugby is in trouble because we will always be behind the Pound and Euro. My personal opinion, the only thing that will ensure a strong SH participation in world rugby is a global season. And we need to get this within the next 10 years or we will breach the point of no return.
Two things to ponder:
- the toll SuperRugby places on a players body is immense, especially the sort of game we play in SA. There is very little rotation policy in SA SR sides. There is also very little rotation at Bok level. In Europe the squads are large, so rotation is the name of the game. They need large squads to act as cover during international windows. Also, European-based players not playing international rugby, have a good 3 months off during the year.
- the standard of rugby in Europe is improving every season and they pay a shedload of money.
Why would any rational rugby player opt to stay in SA if he could earn a few years pay for every 12 months spent playing in France?
And said rugby player gets to use his job to see some of the world and have a different experience?
This will only get worse.
@Morné (Comment 54) : Do you think SA would in the long run, be better off taking part in a NH competition instead of SR were such an option available to us?
@vanmartin (Comment 56) :
It would definitely help SA rugby (monetary), but I reckon it would kill Southern Hemisphere rugby.
It goes to a whole other discussion where I reckon the Sevens game will in 10 to 15 years replace the XV code as the most popular version of the game…
@Morné (Comment 54) : don’t forget NZ not only use their own schoolboy players they also pilfer the Islands around them for talented youngsters. With regards to the global rugby season I sort of agree with you but to be honest I don’t see it happening.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 55) : very true, why would you not go for more money?!?!
@vanmartin (Comment 56) : @Morné (Comment 57) : I also agree SA would benefit more especially with this stupid new Super rug y format that our friends in OZ and NZ approved. If SA leaves than OZ and NZ can continue with their inter Island derbies.
@JD (Comment 60) :Yes and who both have won the WC
@benji (Comment 61) : and so have England. SA will get more hating teams in the Heineken cup than to have them playing in the new kak Super rugby format. SA can also tour to OZ and NZ like the Northern teams currently do and like they did before the Tri-nations started.