robdylan

Experimental Boks for Scotland


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 25 Jun 2014 at 12:12
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Bulls flyhalf Handre Pollard has leap-frogged Marnitz Boshoff and will start in the number 10 jersey for the Springboks, who take on Scotland in Port Elizabeth on Saturday.

With Morne Steyn ruled out due to club commitments, and Johan Goosen injured again, most would have predicted a start for Boshoff, who has been with the squad for three weeks and furthermore in great form over the course of Super Rugby. Coach Heyneke Meyer clearly sees things differently, however.

The team features changes aplenty in other areas. Lwazi Mvovo starts at left wing for Bryan Habana in the only other change to the starting backline, while Boshoff earns a bench spot alongside Francois Hougaard and Zane Kirchner. The latter is another hard-to-justify selection given the claim of in-form Sharks man S’bura Sithole, whose omission from the matchday 23 is nothing short of a disgrace.

Coenie Oosthuizen start at loosehead prop for injured Beast Mtawarira, while Lood de Jager will enjoy a first start at this level as he replaces Flip van der Merwe. Marcell Coetzee and Schalk Burger replace flankers Francois Louw (club commitments) and Willem Alberts (out with concussion) respectively.

New caps on the forward replacement bench include Bulls prop Marcell van der Merwe, Sharks lock Stephan Lewies and Free State utility forward Teboho Mahoje. Trevor Nyakanke and Adriaan Strauss – both previously capped – also come into the squad this week.

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 JP Pietersen, 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Duane Vermeuelen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Victor Matfield (capt), 4 Lood de Jager, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Coenie Oosthuizen
16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Marcel van der Merwe, 19 Stephan Lewies, 20 Teboho Mahoje, 21 Francois Hougaard , 22 Marnitz Boshoff, 23 Zane Kirchner.



152 Comments

  • “With Morne Steyn ruled out due to club commitments, and Johan Goosen injured again, most would have predicted a start for Boshoff, who has been with the squad for three weeks and furthermore in great form over the course of Super Rugby. Coach Heyneke Meyer clearly sees things differently, however.”

    hahah , got to love you Rob !

  • Comment 1, posted at 25.06.14 12:17:19 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Ok lets break this down…im glad backline mostly in tact and Mvovo for Habana is good. I have a feeling Pollard was always ahead for Boschoff and the fact that Boschoff has a niggle and Pollard had a great JWC means Pollard starts. The pack is pretty much as expected- Coenie where he is meant to be! The bench is full of youngsters looking to make an impact and perhaps thats why Kirchner so that its not all youngsters coming on and there is an old experienced head too. For me I would have given Hougaard a run instead of Pienaar though.

  • Comment 2, posted at 25.06.14 12:19:45 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Huge congrats to Lewies on cracking the bench. Really hoping he gets a cap in this game. I think it’s clear where my loyalties lie in regards to Meyer but even I find Sbu’s omission perplexing. I think most would probably disagree with me but I do think Pollard’s start ahead of Boshoff has merit.

  • Comment 3, posted at 25.06.14 12:21:25 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 2) : Strangely, Supersport’s squad lists Hougaard instead of Pienaar. Not sure which is correct?

    SA Rugby’s site also has Hougaard there.

  • Comment 4, posted at 25.06.14 12:23:03 by vanmartin Reply
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  • If I was Boshoff I would have been pretty grumpy for warming the bench while this young kid simply walks into the starting 15.. Wondering what HM will do when we have a fit Lambie and Goosen back? Moerse happy for Lewies! You go and smash them good!

  • Comment 5, posted at 25.06.14 12:23:39 by Another Nick Reply

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  • At least Mvovo finally gets a run. I am the first to admit that I have not seen enough of the Cheetahs’ games this year to really have an informed opinion, it just doesn’t make sense to me why Hendricks was preffered

  • Comment 6, posted at 25.06.14 12:25:14 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @Another Nick (Comment 5) :

    what year will Goosen be fit ?

  • Comment 7, posted at 25.06.14 12:25:21 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Congrats to Lewis! Also Marcel and Mvovo. I’m gutted that Sbura didn’t get in the 23 though.

    What positions is Zane supposed to be covering for? Can he play center/wing? With marnitz able to cover 15, I would have thought cover in centers and wings would suit Sbura better.

  • Comment 8, posted at 25.06.14 12:26:30 by gregkaos Reply
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  • Boshoff covers fullback as well, NO need for Zane to be there ahead of Sithole.

    Why the f**k didn’t Zane’s club want him back? :roll:

  • Comment 9, posted at 25.06.14 12:30:30 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 6) : Probably because Hendricks plays 14 and Mvovo plays 11. Meyer wants decent depth in both positions. Keep in mind that should Jacque Fourie be fit, JPP will very likely shift back to 14. So Cornal can be considered backup to JPP while Mvovo is backup to Habana (and maybe le Roux as well?)

  • Comment 10, posted at 25.06.14 12:30:51 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 8) : Mvovo can also cover fullback. I think he’s only there to add experience to the side.

  • Comment 11, posted at 25.06.14 12:32:16 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 7) : :lol: True. I am just struggling to understand HM’s thinking here.. I mean is he grooming Pollard for in case Goosen breaks again so we have back-up for the chamionship or WC? Or will he then select Steyn and Pollard as fly-halves, and Lambie as a “utility back”??

  • Comment 12, posted at 25.06.14 12:32:43 by Another Nick Reply

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  • Struggling t o come up with a more uninspiring side.

    Zane Kirchner. Unbelievable. Didnt think the guy was even playing rugby anymore.

  • Comment 13, posted at 25.06.14 12:34:57 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 4) : hmm that is interesting. I would have thought that he would give Hougaard a run off the bench when he had 2 fit flyhalves. Guess time will tell. I never expected Sithole or Mahoje to get a look in. Strange that he went Mahoje over Kolisi. Sithole for me has been good but not Bok good if that makes sense.

  • Comment 14, posted at 25.06.14 12:35:00 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Another Nick (Comment 12) : My opinion is that he has four flyhalves in mind for the WC: Steyn, Pollard, Lambie and Goosen. Chances are good that at least one of them will be injured during that time so the other three will go. If Lambie is fit he will probably make it due to his utility value.

  • Comment 15, posted at 25.06.14 12:36:08 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 13) : Can you with a clear conscience state that he ever has? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 16, posted at 25.06.14 12:37:24 by vanmartin Reply
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  • sorry, my mistake! It is Hougaard, not Pienaar

  • Comment 17, posted at 25.06.14 12:37:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • :sad: I’m gutted for S’bura!! :evil:

  • Comment 18, posted at 25.06.14 12:39:21 by ChrisS Reply
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  • Boshoff and Mvovo cover fullback already, any sane person would have picked a centre/wing to cover centre and wing don’t you think?

  • Comment 19, posted at 25.06.14 12:39:34 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 11) : yeah true. I guess the team makes more sense, at least to me, if Hougaard is indeed on the bench instead of Ruan.

    Anyway, it sucks not to have Sbura there but great to see Mvovo and Marcel starting. Even better seeing Lewis smashing his way into the 23.

  • Comment 20, posted at 25.06.14 12:40:59 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 13) : We sacrifice X-Factor (Sithole) for the boringness of Kirchner.

  • Comment 21, posted at 25.06.14 12:42:59 by ChrisS Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 14) : Sithole, in my somewhat biased opinion, has been one of the best SA 13′s this season. I probably also have to add that I have a real dislike for Zane in a Bok squad. It’s tough to recall any moment where’s he’s been anything but average.

  • Comment 22, posted at 25.06.14 12:43:46 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 17) : Stop making mistakes or we will call you Hyneke Meyer ;) With it being Hougaard there are quite a few exciting ball in hand players coming off the bench

  • Comment 23, posted at 25.06.14 12:44:41 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I honestly don’t understand what he sees in Zane. Just when one rejoiced never to see either of Side Show Bob or Meisiekind in a Bok jersey, HM has to go and dig these guys out of obscurity. Sithole can cover wing and outside centre, Mvovo can move to fullback if need be.

    Where is Morne to explain this one to us?

  • Comment 24, posted at 25.06.14 12:44:54 by Bokhoring Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 15) : Makes sense. Just thought that Boshoff was in with a shout as well. Guess he probably still is, should injury strike severely.

  • Comment 25, posted at 25.06.14 12:45:50 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @gregkaos (Comment 20) : You’re right, no point mulling over Sbu’s exclusion for too long when it takes away from the fact that Lewies has cracked the bench. Sbu’s time will no doubt come.

  • Comment 26, posted at 25.06.14 12:49:35 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK(comment14) I think Mohoje is a better physical specimen than Kolisi,when Boshoff gains self confidence he can be what Meyer wants in a player, hope we have an excellent 1st half so that VM goes off and Lewies is paired with Lood that would be exciting :razz:

  • Comment 27, posted at 25.06.14 12:49:42 by Chippa Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 14) : Mahoje has been pretty impressive for the Cheetahs, whereas Kolisi’s form took quite a dip this year.

  • Comment 28, posted at 25.06.14 12:52:06 by Bokhoring Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 22) : All coaches no matter who have the players they trust and will always pick. Morne Steyn, Zane Kirchner and Fourie DuPreez are some of Hyneke Meyers. Yes Sithole has been good, but how many games has he played at 13…more than 5? His inclusion in the squad was always to have a look at him from within the Bok camp. In much the same way id rather play Kolisi over Mahoje- yes Mahoje had a few decent games but Kolisi is a Bok and in the squad so why shell out a cap just because you want a look.

  • Comment 29, posted at 25.06.14 12:52:49 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 28) : No fair i agree but Kolisi is already a Bok and playing Mahoje is just giving him 1 cap just becos. Doubt he will play in RC. And whilst Mahoje has been good where are the cheetahs in the log? so how good really. Just sum perspective.

  • Comment 30, posted at 25.06.14 12:54:30 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Another Nick (Comment 25) :

    Maybe Pollard is as injury prone as Goosen . One can only hope …

  • Comment 31, posted at 25.06.14 12:58:10 by Zibbie Reply
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  • I am not at all surprised Meyer selected Pollard ahead of Boshoff. Boshoff is too much on the red side for blue Meyer

  • Comment 32, posted at 25.06.14 12:59:58 by Mutley Reply

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  • Against what must be a very soft Scots side, why is Burger in the team,he is way off match sharpness,and really do you think a test is the place for him to regain it,rather blood another youngster.
    We already have geriatric Mattfield in the team covering the captaincy for geriatric de Villiers,really does anyone still think deVilliers will be back and can you see Mattfield relinquishing the captaincy to him.

  • Comment 33, posted at 25.06.14 13:00:12 by The hound Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 29) : I agree with your thinking, it makes sense and as stated before, my personal bias is very clear in my own sentiments regarding his exclusion.

  • Comment 34, posted at 25.06.14 13:04:49 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 31) : @Mutley (Comment 32) : Surely we can agree that any SA union would welcome a player like Pollard? Of course there is always the over-hype that surrounds any talented youngster but Pollard has for the most part been impressive so far. Besides fitting the SA style of play to a tee, he’s showing a lot of attacking intent.

  • Comment 35, posted at 25.06.14 13:10:28 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Mutley (Comment 32) : Let’s face it, the only reason Boshoff is in the squad is because all HM’s blue eyed boys, apart from Pollard, is unavailable. Having dropped Boshoff from the Bulls it must grate to select him now and I’ll be surprised if Boshoff gets more than a few minutes game time

  • Comment 36, posted at 25.06.14 13:10:46 by Baylion Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 33) : Why wouldn’t de Villiers be back?

  • Comment 37, posted at 25.06.14 13:12:16 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 34) : Yeh look what id def like tos ee is Sithole retained at 13 for the Sharks for remainder of Super rugby then CC. And if that happens and he stays in form then he may end up on EOYT…but if De Allende/ Fourie back then i doubt it.

  • Comment 38, posted at 25.06.14 13:13:42 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Swak

  • Comment 39, posted at 25.06.14 13:16:06 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 38) : Isn’t de Allende considered more of a 12 though?

  • Comment 40, posted at 25.06.14 13:16:56 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 37) :
    Because I for one don’t think he is injured,I think Mattfield only agreed to come back if he could be the captain,and Meyer is in such awe of him that he ditched deVilliers.
    Must say he has hardly been missed,and he should never be selected on any other basis other than as a captain.

  • Comment 41, posted at 25.06.14 13:18:11 by The hound Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 41) : I honestly have no idea how to respond to that. Do you honestly believe that Jean de Villier’s injury has been made up as part of some conspiracy to hand Matfield the captaincy?

  • Comment 42, posted at 25.06.14 13:22:23 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 30) : Mohoje is around 107 kg and 1.93 m compared to Kolisi at 101 kg and 1.86 m. So Mohoje is probably better suited as a blindside in HM’s plan than Kolisi. We know Heyneke likes his loose forwards big and tall.

  • Comment 43, posted at 25.06.14 13:27:10 by Bokhoring Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 42) :
    Yes there are a lot of things wrong in that Bok setup,do you honestly think Frans Steyn walked out over pay,not everyone is happy with Mattfields captaincy and he was brought back by Meyer at deVilliers expense,or do you really believe that once he is over his ”injury” he will walk back into the team and big Vic will hand back the arm band.

  • Comment 44, posted at 25.06.14 13:28:28 by The hound Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 36) : Boshoff left the Bulls after they signed Pollard. Yes Pollard had a couple of good games for the Bulls but Boshoff is a proven match winner for the Lions. I hope Boshoff gets a decent run

  • Comment 45, posted at 25.06.14 13:30:29 by Mutley Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 43) : I get the size stats but HM has picked Kolisi before and he is a contracted Bok remember. I cannot see Mahoje getting another cap anytime soon so whats the point of 1 cap? @The hound (Comment 44) : And yes Steyn walked out over a contract dispute- he had no choice but to walk out. Nothing to do with pride,Matfield, HM or anything to do with the team setup

  • Comment 46, posted at 25.06.14 13:33:24 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 31) :

    That’s is truly a pathetic comment.

    Small minded.
    Devoid of grace.

  • Comment 47, posted at 25.06.14 13:35:50 by fyndraai Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 46) :
    Yeah and Suarez took a bite out that Eyetie’s shoulder because he was hungry.
    You think thats a happy Bok camp then believe it.

  • Comment 48, posted at 25.06.14 13:37:37 by The hound Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 44) : I have no idea what all the reasons are in relation to Frans Steyn leaving but he requested that the matter be kept private so very few people do. I’d wager you aren’t one of those few?

    I definitely don’t buy into the idea that de Villiers’ injury is not genuine and I don’t see why he wouldn’t be given back the captaincy. If you have any proof to the contrary however, I’d be open to looking over it. Until such time it’s nothing more than conspiracy theory I’m afraid. To quote an article I wondered across a while back: “The real problem with conspiracy theories is not that they are scary – it’s that they are too comforting.”

  • Comment 49, posted at 25.06.14 13:38:20 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 48) : If u understand contract law then u would understand the Steyn situation. JDV has been seen on crutches. Why would it not be a happy Bok camp? All the older guys have played with each other for years and most if not all have played under Matfield as captain. And if the youngsters are ‘not happy’ then they should piss off as what gives them the right. Conspiracy theories are fun if u are bored

  • Comment 50, posted at 25.06.14 13:41:39 by SheldonK Reply

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  • You know what, I won’t let Kirchner spoil Stephan’s thunder…I suspect we’ll see far more from Lewies than anyone ever thought possible.

    You go boy, you go big ;-)

  • Comment 51, posted at 25.06.14 14:01:53 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 46) : Who’s been better this year…Mohoje or Kolisi? – for me, current form trumps Bok contract every day of the week.

  • Comment 52, posted at 25.06.14 14:05:16 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 51) : that’s a good way to look at it. I’m trying to do the same.

  • Comment 53, posted at 25.06.14 14:07:40 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Mutley (Comment 45) :

    nope , boshoff left the bulls in 2011 . Pollard signed for the bulls in 2013 .

  • Comment 54, posted at 25.06.14 14:08:08 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 24) :

    I am busy in Stellenbosch ensuring we produce skillful Springboks in the next 5 to 20 years man!

    And I am not the coach who selects the team btw!

    BUT, a quick look at this team. It has 5 uncapped players in the match-day 23. There are 6 changes to the starting XV alone (more than a third). Four of the 5 new caps (half!) are already sitting on the bench.

    You have a new front row, lock and loosie combo. New 9/10 combo and new back three combo – so the ONLY combination that has not changed is at center with more than half the bench also earning their first caps should they take the field (this must be some sort of record for the Boks)

    Someone with the time can have a look at how much experience (caps) the Springboks are missing with this team compared to last week, and you want to throw in another rookie on the bench?

    Hougaard covers scrummie and wing but I would imagine only scrummy in this game – Boshoff flyhalf and fullback, Zane fullback and center (he played center for the Boks before).

    Pollard was always ahead of Boshoff in the pecking order and would have earned his cap in one of the tests against Wales had he not been with the U20′s.

    With an initial squad of 36 which is huge when involved in a home series some okes were always going to miss out on a game.

  • Comment 55, posted at 25.06.14 14:09:56 by Morné Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 28) :

    I believe Oupa covers lock too.

  • Comment 56, posted at 25.06.14 14:11:13 by Morné Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 54) : I really hope Bossie gets enough game time and plays a blinders. Even though it’s a weak Scottish side a good performance should stand him in good stead for the RC

  • Comment 57, posted at 25.06.14 14:14:02 by Baylion Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 35) :

    Well Boshoff destroyed the Bulls and the Stormers :) . I believe he is one of the big reasons behind the Lions having a very slightly better season the usual . Maybe if pollard proves him self ?

  • Comment 58, posted at 25.06.14 14:15:50 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 55) : Are you allowed to provide us with the current Bok fullback pecking order? Much appreciated if you could!

  • Comment 59, posted at 25.06.14 14:16:51 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 52) : No on form Mahoje and a few others above Kolisi. But what im saying is why Mahoje at all…I mean its not like he will get another cap unless like i say all our loosies stop playing rugby or get injured. And if on form id have picked Kanko or the other Cheetahs loosies ahead of Mahoje. Whitely ahead of Mahoje etc. But he is there now so good luck to the guy.

  • Comment 60, posted at 25.06.14 14:17:39 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 57) : Think you might be optimistic if you think Boshoff is going to get more than 5 min of game time

  • Comment 61, posted at 25.06.14 14:17:51 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 55) : sometimes you can understand the reasoning just fine, but still not agree with it.

    I guess we should count ourselves fortunate that he didn’t opt to shift Willie to wing and start Zane at 15.

  • Comment 62, posted at 25.06.14 14:17:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 60) :

    Whitely ahead of Mahoje . a lions player ? you must have gone mad :razz:

  • Comment 63, posted at 25.06.14 14:21:07 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 59) :

    There is no real pecking order to speak off. Willie holds the jersey but that is obvious to everyone. From there you try and develop or have 2, maybe 3 experienced back-ups.

    I think we only have something like 11 tests before the RWC.

  • Comment 64, posted at 25.06.14 14:22:30 by Morné Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 54) : Yes your right. Sorry I forgot he was at Griekwas in 2012

  • Comment 65, posted at 25.06.14 14:23:39 by Mutley Reply

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  • Guys, does anyone know where I can get a list of the youngest springboks ever? All I can find is the youngest player ever is Jack Hartley way back when. But I want to see the rest! Who is nr. 2 and 3 etc. Would be interesting to see where Pollard fits in with Pat and Frans when they got their caps…

  • Comment 66, posted at 25.06.14 14:23:43 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 63) : Sssh stop mentioning that he is a Lions player, somebody will notice. He is the former Shark and Sevens player… ;)

  • Comment 67, posted at 25.06.14 14:24:11 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 61) : You never know. Elton accidentally got 49 minutes once :)

  • Comment 68, posted at 25.06.14 14:24:16 by Baylion Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 58) : But surely if the argument is that Pollard has to prove himself, the same applies to Boshoff? If my info is reliable, Boshoff only boasts a few more Super Rugby caps compared to Pollard?

  • Comment 69, posted at 25.06.14 14:24:24 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 62) :

    Of course not, I don’t think there is a Bok team in history we agreed with.

    But to raise an alternative argument to popular selections gripes goes a lot further to stimulate debate around the selections.

  • Comment 70, posted at 25.06.14 14:24:30 by Morné Reply
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  • Any case, I must get back to work this side. Chat later folks.

  • Comment 71, posted at 25.06.14 14:26:47 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 64) : Thanks! My question actually relates to who would get selected if Willie were not available. Do you know who would be considered viable options? Would Lwazi come into reckoning?

  • Comment 72, posted at 25.06.14 14:27:03 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 69) :

    would you say Boshoff proved himself against the Stormers and the Bulls ?

    i dont know if Pollard had any super rugby games where he took control of the game ?

  • Comment 73, posted at 25.06.14 14:33:48 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 16) :

    Very true!

    There might’ve been a game in high school…

  • Comment 74, posted at 25.06.14 14:34:37 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 49) : Wow that’s profound,and so deep,so Frans in the middle of a bok camp up and left because of a contractual dispute don’t you think he would have had that kinda conversation before the camp,and not in the middle of it.
    But then I suppose you really believe old Vic only came out of retirement to help out the Boks till Jean was able to,and as soon as Jean is better Vic will return to assistant coaching Pine Pionaar’s Bulls Currie Cup team

  • Comment 75, posted at 25.06.14 14:40:56 by The hound Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 73) : I’d say Boshoff proved his potential in number of games not just those two. I’d say the same of Pollard though. This is not an argument against Boshoff, I just don’t think there’s enough to go on to claim that one is much better than the other at this point. There are a few small factors in my mind that tipped it in favour of Pollard but I honestly wouldn’t have been surprised to see Boshoff starting ahead of Pollard. That could very well be justified too.

  • Comment 76, posted at 25.06.14 14:43:55 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 69) : FYI
    Pollard: 10 (2 starts) 280 minutes 58 points
    Boshoff: 14 (13 starts) 1078 minutes 170 points

    In Pollard’s favour:
    He is a Bull
    3x JRWC campaigns
    He is one of HM’s earmarked players
    HM dropped MB from the Bulls
    MB is a Lion

  • Comment 77, posted at 25.06.14 14:49:32 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionVodacom Cup player
     
  • Very very chuffed for Lewies, so happy for him. Sbura, well that is just so frustrating for me. I’m not even going to the game on Saturday

  • Comment 78, posted at 25.06.14 14:50:41 by Ludz Reply

    LudzCurrie Cup player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 75) : I think his agent probably did have that conversation before the camp and it most likely wasn’t honoured in the way expected by Steyn or his agent.

    Vic came out of retirement long before Jean was injured so I’m really not sure where you’re heading with the reasoning in that last paragraph? It’s not an either/or proposition. Vic and Jean will both stay in the Bok team should they be injury free and I have no reason to believe that the captaincy won’t revert back to Jean once he’s recovered. Do you have any evidence to suggest otherwise?

  • Comment 79, posted at 25.06.14 14:55:02 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 77) :

    shucks !!! based on that Pollard scores 0.2 points per minute
    and Boshoff scores 0.15 points per minute .

    Based on that Pollard should start

  • Comment 80, posted at 25.06.14 14:56:29 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 77) : Thanks for the stats but based on your comments below that Paul Willemse should have been called up instead of Lood de Jager?

  • Comment 81, posted at 25.06.14 15:02:40 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 79) : Whats with all the do you have any evidence crap,what are you a C.S.I. agent ?
    this is a banter board,where 99% of the comments are speculation.Yes I have sources and yes Ido know things,but am I prepared to stand up in a court of law and swear to them, no.
    Take it from me Mattfield and deVilliers will never play in the same Bok team,and while Meyer is coach Mattfield will be his captain,maybe when he blows out at the next WC and Alistar Coetzee finally gets his job,deVilliers will be back in the frame.

  • Comment 82, posted at 25.06.14 15:03:59 by The hound Reply

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  • This is the most experimenting I’ve seen HM do – ever. Two (relative) rookie wings, a rookie centre, a debutant flyhalf – the youngest in the squad – four debutants on the bench plus he goes against his own beliefs and start Coenie as a loosehead prop.

  • Comment 83, posted at 25.06.14 15:06:26 by Blue Centurion Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 81) :

    Willemse is not a chosen one . He came from the Lions

  • Comment 84, posted at 25.06.14 15:08:04 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 82) : Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that’s why I can’t simply “take it from you”. I need slightly more to go on.

  • Comment 85, posted at 25.06.14 15:09:56 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 81) : I think the Cheetahs is HM’s second team :)

    Paul Willemse: 19 (10 starts) 802 minutes 5 points
    Lood de Jager: 26 (26 starts) 1801 minutes 0 points

  • Comment 86, posted at 25.06.14 15:10:16 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Blue Centurion (Comment 83) : Jaaa…, but he’s still a Bull. All brannewyn and conspiracy. ;-) :twisted:

  • Comment 87, posted at 25.06.14 15:11:05 by McLovin Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 84) : Of course. My bad, he’s a mudblood :mrgreen:

  • Comment 88, posted at 25.06.14 15:12:56 by vanmartin Reply
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  • C’mon Andy!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 89, posted at 25.06.14 15:14:51 by McLovin Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 55) : The comment was made in jest :lol: but thanks for your detailed explanation as always.

    @Morné (Comment 56) : He has filled in as lock for Free State and also Shimlas, although he would be probably on the short and light side for an international lock.

  • Comment 90, posted at 25.06.14 15:16:16 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringSuper Rugby player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 85) :
    So you actually do think that Vic is only caretaking the arm band for Meyer till Jean is better
    HA HA HA

  • Comment 91, posted at 25.06.14 15:22:00 by The hound Reply

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  • You blokes are projecting your own biases onto the coach.

    You’d pick the Sharks players because you associate with the Sharks …..Therefore HM must be picking the Bulls player/s because he is associated with the Bulls.

    But unlike the fans, the coach have an extremely strong incentive to put such biases aside and pick players who’d be most likely to win him the match.

    There is an overriding conspiracy controlling all decisions…………It is to win!

  • Comment 92, posted at 25.06.14 15:32:38 by fyndraai Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 92) : You made total sense, until you justified the selection of Zane as the difference between winning and losing :grin:

  • Comment 93, posted at 25.06.14 15:49:34 by Bokhoring Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 91) : I stated that belief back in comment 49 already. First line, second paragraph. You’ve yet to provide a reason to believe otherwise.

  • Comment 94, posted at 25.06.14 16:01:42 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 92) : I love that last line! Well put :cool:

  • Comment 95, posted at 25.06.14 16:03:09 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 94) :
    I’ll do beter than that i’ll give you two,Meisie on the field last week and Zane on the bench this week.

  • Comment 96, posted at 25.06.14 16:05:46 by The hound Reply

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  • @Blue Centurion (Comment 83) : Just frustrating that Coenie, now neither a th or a lh, has been messed around.

    He was a brilliant loose head…then the whole th experiment…and I will venture a guess that even at loose head, he’ll have a hard time this Saturday.

  • Comment 97, posted at 25.06.14 16:10:07 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 96) : Bud, I think we’re missing each other here completely and I question whether it’s worth our time to continue this debate. The selection of two players in no way whatsoever explains to me why Meyer would remove the captaincy from Jean and give it to Vic. All that tells me is that Meyer tends to err on the side of caution in his selections. Conservative selection policies is nothing new when it comes to a number of Bok coaches and nothing I didn’t already know about Meyer. I was hoping that at the very least, you heard it from a source that you consider reliable.

  • Comment 98, posted at 25.06.14 16:15:32 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 91) :

    Yes – is the short answer. Jean is appointed as the captain and will take over the responsibility as soon as he returns from injury in the Rugby Championship. It is actually quite well documented from the coach himself.

  • Comment 99, posted at 25.06.14 16:18:37 by Morné Reply
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  • As far as the Steyn issue is concerned. It is contractual and financial of nature. But you read that in the press already so no news there.

  • Comment 100, posted at 25.06.14 16:20:11 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 99) : Is it safe to also assume then that Jean wasn’t forced to fake an injury so that Vic could captain the side?

  • Comment 101, posted at 25.06.14 16:22:38 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 101) :

    It would be the safest thing to assume in the history of Bok rugby. Jean is the captain elect. What we now know is who is the chosen deputy which wasn’t as clear in the last 2 years as it shifted between a couple of individuals.

  • Comment 102, posted at 25.06.14 16:25:34 by Morné Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 79) :

    Sometimes people just get gatvol, have had enough and walk away.
    It doesnt need to be one thing, but it normally is one thing that breaks the camel’s back.

    I suspect the training on Mondays and Tuesdays put him over the edge and then somebody wound him up and that was that for him.

    He strikes me as a pretty intense young man and sportsmen of that ilk tend to over-react to things.

  • Comment 103, posted at 25.06.14 16:26:30 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 101) : I think the “bond” abducted Jean, beat him up with an unmarked cricket bat…allowing Vic to stroll into the Bok captaincy like a “de la Rey” figure :twisted:

  • Comment 104, posted at 25.06.14 16:26:54 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 104) :

    Love it!

  • Comment 105, posted at 25.06.14 16:29:54 by Morné Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 103) : He certainly does come across as very intense. Always got the feeling that he’s very hard on himself and probably on those around him too as a result.

  • Comment 106, posted at 25.06.14 16:30:17 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 104) : You tread a very fine line sir but at least you do so gracefully :mrgreen:

  • Comment 107, posted at 25.06.14 16:32:11 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 101) :
    Look friend you believe what you will like the Blue Bulls spin doctor above here ,but I see a different story,and if you honestly believe Mattfield came out of retirement for anything less than the captaincy at the next World Cup you are seriously naive.
    I agree we have very little to discuss,in my opinion, both deVilliers and Mattfield can not command a spot in the starting line up as a player anymore,but they both have a case as a captain.
    De Villiers doesn’t do it for Meyer any more,who actually had Spies ear marked as his captain,but even he couldn’t continue to substantiate that so he persuaded Mattfield out of retirement with the only thing he had ,the captaincy. That means no place for Jean but on the injured bench.

  • Comment 108, posted at 25.06.14 16:32:41 by The hound Reply

    The houndVodacom Cup player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 103) : @vanmartin (Comment 106) :

    He is one of those once in a generation players. He will be loved as much as he will be hated by fans. Of what there is no doubt is that he is stupidly fucking talented.

    Personally, the dude made his choice and whether I, or anyone agree with that choice doesn’t matter. I respect it but not necessarily the motivation behind it.

    He could not come to an amicable agreement with SA Rugby and when you take away all the smoke, mirrors and bullshit, that is really as simple as it is.

    Pity, but the show goes on.

  • Comment 109, posted at 25.06.14 16:35:32 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 109) :
    Seeing as you know so much what was the disagreement about and why the secrecy.
    If it was about money then are we going to see lawyers in action,and when.

  • Comment 110, posted at 25.06.14 16:39:09 by The hound Reply

    The houndVodacom Cup player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 110) :

    No we won’t.

    When you sign an employment contract you agree to the terms the employer sets out and the conditions associated with that. If not you negotiate and if you cannot find common ground you simply do not accept the offer.

    There really is nothing sinister about any of this.

    The specific terms, as with any employer and employee in any organisation is confidential, and that is the rights of both parties that is currently being exercised.

  • Comment 111, posted at 25.06.14 16:46:10 by Morné Reply
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  • I should say, when you are THINKING about signing an employment contract….

  • Comment 112, posted at 25.06.14 16:48:44 by Morné Reply
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  • And Rob, why do I only have like one star under my little avatar?!

    In fact, what the hell does it mean! (Maybe it is a good thing :) )

  • Comment 113, posted at 25.06.14 16:51:24 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 113) : ja man, it’s a PLATINUM star. It means you’re a big shot :)

  • Comment 114, posted at 25.06.14 16:54:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 114) :

    Awesome! :lol:

  • Comment 115, posted at 25.06.14 16:55:41 by Morné Reply
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  • On another note, and there will be more information on this later this year…

    We are busy formulating a complete revamp and mindshift in the SA Rugby structure and culture from U7 level. It is what we have been praying for (in my recollection being involved with blogs in the past) for the last decade.

    Kids will be taught skills above all else.

  • Comment 116, posted at 25.06.14 16:59:11 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 116) : I’m very happy that you’re blogging again. Always value your input.

  • Comment 117, posted at 25.06.14 17:01:42 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 116) : Excellent

  • Comment 118, posted at 25.06.14 17:06:26 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 117) :

    I am not really blogging again :) Just commenting from time to time. But shit guys, there are some really exciting things happening in our rugby and we are starting where it starts – the kids, parents and school coaches. The final product will take care of itself.

  • Comment 119, posted at 25.06.14 17:10:23 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 111) : When the contract falls apart six months after it was signed then there is something sinister about it.
    It normally means that one of the parties has not honoured the terms of the contract.
    If this is the case why the secrecy ,if that is all it was then tell us,but to walk out two days before a test means that some thing else was at play.
    Correct me if I am wrong but this is not the first time he has walked away from the Boks.

  • Comment 120, posted at 25.06.14 17:17:58 by The hound Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 119) : That is very encouraging to hear! I look forward to reading more about that.

  • Comment 121, posted at 25.06.14 17:19:37 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 108) : Well, I do take comfort in the fact that that our whole coversation wasn’t for nought as you provided some reasoning in your last reply. I don’t agree with you but I can at least now understand where you’re coming from. It serves as a good foundation for future debates.

  • Comment 122, posted at 25.06.14 17:26:01 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 120) :

    Dude – have you been living under a rock?
    Nobody is talking, there are NDAs in place.

    There are a lot of conspiracy theories floating around in your head, aren’t there?

  • Comment 123, posted at 25.06.14 17:26:10 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 119) : That’s very encouraging to hear. Thanks for the update!

  • Comment 124, posted at 25.06.14 17:27:41 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 123) : The need for a home-made foil helmet comes to mind. :lol:

  • Comment 125, posted at 25.06.14 17:30:54 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 123) : Lots of fresh air too it seems. ;-)

  • Comment 126, posted at 25.06.14 17:32:43 by McLovin Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 120) :

    What gives you the idea a contract was signed to start with? Contracts being ‘offered’ to players (as reported) and being signed and accepted is quite a different matter. Bok contracts are (until this year) offered on a year-to-year basis.

  • Comment 127, posted at 25.06.14 17:35:10 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 127) :

    Exactly.

    If contracts were in place they’d be enforced by lawyers.

  • Comment 128, posted at 25.06.14 17:41:17 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 128) :

    I think that is probably the biggest misconception out there at the moment to this whole situation. It was on the table, it was simply not accepted and agreed to by both parties.

  • Comment 129, posted at 25.06.14 17:58:16 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 129) : That is the most clarity that has been shed on the whole bitter situation between Frans and SARU.

    Thanks for that. ;-)

  • Comment 130, posted at 25.06.14 18:15:12 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 130) :

    I thought it was obvious ;)

  • Comment 131, posted at 25.06.14 18:17:39 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 129) :

    Nobody really comes out of this smelling particularly well.

    What kind of idiot gives up a well-paying job and moves country without having a signed contract in place?
    How disingenious of those offering the job not to stump up to their verbal commitments?

  • Comment 132, posted at 25.06.14 18:18:07 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 132) :

    Ja that is the detail, and the devil as you know, resides there.

    And this is what the parties are keeping quiet about (and for good and legit reasons).

    You don’t wash/hang/dry your laundry in public, it serves no-one.

  • Comment 133, posted at 25.06.14 18:27:59 by Morné Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 132) : As Morné stated, nobody up to now has a contract of more than 1 year…so I suppose it was the contract renewal terms which caused the speed wobble.

  • Comment 134, posted at 25.06.14 18:30:55 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 133) : As FireTheLooser mentioned this actually sheds a whole lot more light on the subject so thanks for that

  • Comment 135, posted at 25.06.14 18:40:14 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 134) :

    Yeah – but you get a Letter of Intent and get your terms down on paper.
    And thats the nub anyway – if your employer witholds pay ro benefits, you withold your labour.

    Its a moot point anyway. He’s gone and i hope he’s happier for it.
    His foray back into SA Rugby has obviously not gone as planned.

  • Comment 136, posted at 25.06.14 18:49:14 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 133) :

    A lesson SARU seems to have learnt!

    I’m just amazed there havent been any leaks. Normally SARU has more leaks than a rusty bucket!

  • Comment 137, posted at 25.06.14 18:49:55 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 134) :

    Even the details are not that spectacular to be honest. What is read in mainstream media (as is their job) is to sell sensation. But as Vin mentioned NDA’s are in place and we have to respect that. Parties just couldn’t find a middle ground and although it pisses everyone off it is really not that complicated.

  • Comment 138, posted at 25.06.14 18:50:45 by Morné Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 134) :

    I understood it to be the first contract that was signed, not the renewal. Could be wrong of course.

  • Comment 139, posted at 25.06.14 18:54:00 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 137) :

    In that sense I have a lot of respect for my bosses. We all have opinions on matters but let’s not make it personal. Rugby stirs a lot of emotion in all of us especially when it comes to the Bok brand – but let’s keep it professional (and there is a real effort to now do that).

  • Comment 140, posted at 25.06.14 18:55:09 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 138) :

    We sometimes forget its still just a job. A cool job, but a job nevertheless. And these are still people, prone to the same emotions and feeligns as the rest of us.
    I had such a laugh reading the comments that its an honour to play for the Boks and players should be willing to do it for free etc.

  • Comment 141, posted at 25.06.14 18:57:44 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 140) : hey listen – I’m going to be in Cape Town the last week of July. You around?

  • Comment 142, posted at 25.06.14 18:58:37 by robdylan Reply
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  • Anycase guys – my message at the end is that there is no use being pissed off at Fransie or SARU. Like any relationship, professional or personal, there was (for now) just no common ground found.

  • Comment 143, posted at 25.06.14 18:59:08 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 142) :

    Just after Craven Week, yes I am mate.

  • Comment 144, posted at 25.06.14 19:00:08 by Morné Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 141) :

    Shit dude it is a shit job imo. It is not as spectacular as we all think. I feel for the players, it is a damn tough life living out of a suitcase for 9 months of the year and still have to put up with all the shit fans say about you.

  • Comment 145, posted at 25.06.14 19:02:24 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 140) :

    Happy to hear it mate.

    Needs must. I dont think those guys had much choice to become monumentally more professional. It was either that or there’d be embarrassment after embarrassment as the global profesisonal game left us behind, not through lack of playing ability, but rather through lack of infrastructure support and professional outlook.
    It was largely inevitable as people moved into the back office in a full-time role, as opposed to doing it gratis in the evenings.
    Ive seen this in my line fo work where an ex-government “division” was privatised and had to compete in the private sector. Things changed pretty fast, they had to or everyone would’ve been out of a job. Not exactly the same thing, but i think the principal applies.

    I’m thoroughly happy to hear you’re satisfied with the direction things are moving in.

  • Comment 146, posted at 25.06.14 19:02:46 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 145) :

    Fair point; its definitely not for me mate.
    But for many of these guys, it’s the only way they’ll ever leave the farm or shitty town they grew up in. For many of them they’d not be able to dream of the money they make now or the perks they get.

  • Comment 147, posted at 25.06.14 19:04:34 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 145) :

    Yeah, but the girls Morne… ;-)

    A mate of mine played CC abotu 10 years ago and he was talkign about up to 5 trianign sessions a day. I thought that was a bit extreme…

  • Comment 148, posted at 25.06.14 19:05:51 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 146) :

    You’d be surprised to how similar it actually is.

    But yes, we are getting there, and faster than I thought we would. We have some good people running the operation side of it at the moment.

  • Comment 149, posted at 25.06.14 19:05:56 by Morné Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 148) :

    Haha – and they do get loads of those – was at the academy in Stellenbosch today again and faaaaark…

    But these lads do work hard and it is not a job for a family guy or guy that gets married early in life I reckon.

  • Comment 150, posted at 25.06.14 19:09:33 by Morné Reply
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  • Okay folks, I am off, big day again tomorrow. Thanks for the chat.

    Ciao.

  • Comment 151, posted at 25.06.14 19:22:08 by Morné Reply
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  • My guess is, it’s due to the weakening of the Rand. SARU’s commitments were made in Rands and Steyn’s expectations were in Euros.

    And now the numbers don’t match up anymore.

  • Comment 152, posted at 26.06.14 01:49:20 by fyndraai Reply

    fyndraaiCurrie Cup player
     

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