robdylan

Sharks player ratings v Pumas


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks on 18 Aug 2014 at 09:46
Tagged with : , , , , ,

It was very much a tale of two halves for the Cell C Sharks on Friday night, with a rather iffy first half display (in which they conceded a one-point lead to the Pumas) giving way to an irresistible showing of power rugby in the second.

Overall, the team earns a scant 7 out of 10, so let’s rate the individuals against that benchmark.

1) Thomas du Toit. Again appeared to battle in the early scrums, before finding his feet and starting to dominate as the game progressed. His work rate all around the field remains hugely impressive, but he does need to keep an eye on his discipline. 7/10
2) Kyle Cooper. Starting to find his best form – was responsible for a number of strong carries, but it was his set piece work, particularly at the lineouts, that was most praiseworthy. 7/10
3) Lourens Adriaanse. Scrummed well, but was otherwise rather anonymous. 6/10
4) JC Astle. An encouraging first start. The young man competes well and has a high work rate, while his set piece work also looks up to scratch. We expect a good campaign from him. 7/10
5) Marco Wentzel. Came into his own in his best position, dominating the lineouts for the Sharks. The yellow card was unfortunate, but not solely his fault. 7/10
6) Jacques Botes. A very good game from the old timer, who was involved in absolutely everything for the Sharks. 8/10
7) Etienne Oosthuizen. A far, far better game from the big man, who was positionally so much better at flank this week. His involvement count was off the charts and he brought huge intensity both on attack and defence. 8/10
8) Tera Mtembu. The captain showed some very quick thinking to score his try, but it was his all round game that wins him the plaudits, with his defensive work in particular a stand out feature. 8/10

9) Cameron Wright. After last week’s stellar debut, Wright had a slightly less noteworthy game on Friday. His service was still sweet and he still attacked with gusto, but one or two individual errors and poor decisions this week took just a little gloss off. Still a fantastic prospect at only 20. 6/10
10) Fred Zeilinga. Not a great game from the flyhalf, all things told, although as is typical of Fred there were moments of magic all the same. It’s a testament to just how good this kid is that we can count his worse-than-average performances on one hand…. in fact, we’d only really need a single finger. 6/10
11) Tonderai Chavanga. Made some costly errors on defence and had few opportunities to show us his pace on attack this week. 6/10
12) Paul Jordaan. Had relatively little to do on attack, but proved his worth once agian by executing his defensive role flawlessly. 7/10
13) S’bura Sithole. The Ferrari remained parked in the garage for teh duration of this contest, which was a shame. 6/10
14) Odwa Ndungane. Kept himself busy enough. although runs with the ball were in short supply. Defensively sound as always. 6/10
15) SP Marais. A better game; defensively he was right on the mark and apart from a few misdirected clearance kicks, his error rate was very low. Scored a cracking try to boot. 7/10

16) Monde Hadebe. Not on long enough to rate, but well done on a maiden try!
17) Matt Stevens. Wow! The large man has a pair of hands the envy of even the most fleet-footed of backs. Stevens was superb and added so much direction and intensity when he came on that you would have sworn he wasn’t playing tight head prop! 8/10
18) Johan Meyer. Welcome to the family, Plank. He wasn’t on long enough to rate.
19) Francois Kleinhans. Asked to play the “pollyfilla” role in the back row, Franna worked very hard but didn’t really stand out, apart from one nice run towards the end. 7/10
20) Hanco Venter. Not on long enough to rate.
21) Pat Lambie. Showed his class by turning a close game into a comfortable win. That was Pat’s doing, pure and simple. The man just oozes awesome. 9/10
22) Lionel Cronje. Not on long enough to rate.



99 Comments

  • Rob you hit the nail on the head,MS in fact showed up how poor the Sharks ball skill is in general

  • Comment 1, posted at 18.08.14 10:05:01 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @benji (Comment 1) : he’s a player that continues to surprise me. Just based on his body shape, with that long, wide torso and his Tyrion Lannister-esque waddle, you just don’t expect him to do much other than stroll from scrum to scrum.

    And then he pulls out those ridiculous off-loads and proceeds to play like a bloody flanker! Wow! Start him next week.

  • Comment 2, posted at 18.08.14 10:07:12 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 2) : I agree,silky ball skills,eish,is he with the Sharks for SR 2015?

  • Comment 3, posted at 18.08.14 10:13:37 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @benji (Comment 3) : he is, yeah

  • Comment 4, posted at 18.08.14 10:15:08 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 2) : Both Stevens and Pat showed their class purely in their accuracy. Stevens handling and ball placement allowed our forwards to clean more effectively and create front foot ball and he got over the advantage line. Lambie’s passes were always in front of the man and his kicks weighted perfectly. oosthuizen was good at 7 too

  • Comment 5, posted at 18.08.14 10:15:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Either I was watching a different game or I am being a sour old fart!

    I thought we were much worse than an average 7. I thought the pack was pretty average, and I certainly didnt think that Oosthuizen and Botes did well.

    Du Toit’s discipline was very bad and he needs to work on his ruck defence and technique. The locks really dont add much on the ball-carrying front and I dont recall too many poached lineouts.

    Amongst the backs, Zeilinga ran into dead ends too often and Sithole was mostly ignored, despite what he showed the previous weekend. Chavanga and SP were very average.

    Bright side was a superb cameo from Venter and Lambie.

  • Comment 6, posted at 18.08.14 10:15:26 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 2) : also strikes me as a player with huge BMT

  • Comment 7, posted at 18.08.14 10:15:39 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 6) : I agree with you on JB,now is the time to blood a youngster in that position

  • Comment 8, posted at 18.08.14 10:20:08 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 6) : maybe you are a sour old fart :) I think we need to give the Pumas some credit for the way they defended and nullified what was otherwise some pretty good attacking play.

    Remember that the Sharks are actually attepting to keep ball in hand and play running rugby this campaign. We need to accept there will be some teething problems along the way, but let’s applaud the enterprise at least?

    We scored a bonus point victory against a team that beat the Cheetahs last week. I think that deserves almost a 7 out of 10.

  • Comment 9, posted at 18.08.14 10:21:23 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 8) : who?

  • Comment 10, posted at 18.08.14 10:21:41 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • What I liked about Matt is how much he appeared to be enjoying playing rugby.

  • Comment 11, posted at 18.08.14 10:32:14 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaosTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 10) : MS

  • Comment 12, posted at 18.08.14 10:41:47 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • Wow, that performance from Pat was off the charts! Come on HM, get him in the green and gold ASAP! Both Pollard and Steyn showed on Saturday why we need Pat in the staring 15 sooner rather than later. Go Pat! Welcome back! :razz:

  • Comment 13, posted at 18.08.14 10:44:10 by Another Nick Reply

    Another NickSuper Rugby player
     
  • :lol: So which pack of Tonderai were you hoping to see more of?

  • Comment 14, posted at 18.08.14 10:46:02 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 14) : his 6-pack, obviously :) You seen him without a shirt on? Wow…. :oops:

  • Comment 15, posted at 18.08.14 10:56:07 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 15) : :lol:

  • Comment 16, posted at 18.08.14 11:16:07 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • SP’s decision making improved in this game. Happy for him!

  • Comment 17, posted at 18.08.14 11:18:43 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 9) :
    I can’t agree. By all means, endeavour and intention souls play a part in the score, but it cannot fully ameliorate poor execution as it relates to the scores.

  • Comment 18, posted at 18.08.14 11:19:06 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 18) : ok, fair enough. And you know I value your opinion highly, even if it seldom corresponds with my own :)

    I will attempt to add some balance with my “good and bad” piece which I will get up tomorrow.

  • Comment 19, posted at 18.08.14 11:20:11 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 18) : It is a fact that our players (and most South African) lack in many of the basic skills needed to play a proper attacking game. In the Super 15 we got around that by using a plan involving playing as little rugby as possible. Sorting out these issues is not going to be done by flicking a switch – it will take time.

  • Comment 20, posted at 18.08.14 11:23:38 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 19) :
    You know that I don’t expect everyone to agree, neither am I claiming to be right. I guess it’s a question of balancing the execution and the intention – we just balance them differently.

    I just have 4 real gripes:
    - locks not competing at all
    - loose trio is not effective in carrying or competing on the ground
    - Fred not unleashing the backs into space like we did against Griquas
    - SP Marais’ determination to not be pigeon-holed as a consistent player

  • Comment 21, posted at 18.08.14 11:28:42 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 20) :
    I think it’s a catch-all trap that coaches often use to blame an expansive game plan.

    As per my post above, our line out work, carrying into contact and ground work are not issues only relevant for an “attacking” game plan.

    In addition, part of my gripe with SP is poor tactical play and exit plans. We can’t just blame an attacking game plan and miss some fundamental issues.

  • Comment 22, posted at 18.08.14 11:34:30 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 22) : Fair enough.

  • Comment 23, posted at 18.08.14 11:44:08 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • 2 things. Cameron Wright is an absolute star…2 seasons and he’ll be the best Scrummie in SA..what a player.

    The other thing, so proud seeing Johan Plank Meyer out there. Good mate and had the privilege of finishing school with him. I was really proud on Friday night, my boy a senior Currie Cup player.

  • Comment 24, posted at 18.08.14 12:02:05 by Ludz Reply

    LudzSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 21) : Agreed on your concerns, although I’m hoping most of it will be sorted out as the combinations start gelling with more game time, though I thought SP had an improved game this week. Far from perfect but better.

  • Comment 25, posted at 18.08.14 12:03:36 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • we’re also now using about our 12th different lock combination over just two seasons.

    Combinations need time to find each other and for one reason or another we have simply have no continuity at lock, at all, for many years.

  • Comment 26, posted at 18.08.14 12:05:35 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Ludz (Comment 24) : so I have a question about Plank…. does he have any intentions of every playing senior rugby as a lock? Any idea what his current height and weight are?

  • Comment 27, posted at 18.08.14 12:06:26 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 26) : I agree ,why when you have EO and SL who where key in beating the Crusaders amongst other great playing,change ,that’s why I am saying ,those in charge are cluless

  • Comment 28, posted at 18.08.14 12:30:18 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @benji (Comment 28) : no, I don’t really think they are. I think they were faced with a big problem at 7, hence deciding to play Et there. I reckon he’ll be back at lock before too much longer.

  • Comment 29, posted at 18.08.14 12:34:13 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 28) : remember also that SL is out injured.

  • Comment 30, posted at 18.08.14 12:34:31 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 30) : Any idea when he’ll be back?

  • Comment 31, posted at 18.08.14 13:21:48 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 31) : next week, I believe.

  • Comment 32, posted at 18.08.14 13:31:00 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Bokhoring(comment20):WP flicked that switch and are attacking skillfully,I also think PJ should either be moved to 13/11 as he is solid defensively but not putting his 13 into space.Get Heimar at 12 and drop Chavanga to 22 and we will be better balanced.

  • Comment 33, posted at 18.08.14 13:33:52 by Chippa Reply

    ChippaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Chippa (Comment 33) : here’s sa contentious statement…

    Paul Jordaan is TOO FAST TO BE A REALLY GOOD 12.

    What do you think?

  • Comment 34, posted at 18.08.14 13:38:19 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Chippa (Comment 33) : yes must say I agree with you as I don’t think Jordaan is doing the Sharks attack any good at 12. Please give Heimar a start.

  • Comment 35, posted at 18.08.14 13:48:54 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 34) : no I don’t agree, the problem with Jordaan at 12 is he’s always running to find the outside gaps and not giving 13 and wings the outside space.

  • Comment 36, posted at 18.08.14 13:51:15 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 36) : but isn’t that because he knows he has the pace to get through those gaps?

  • Comment 37, posted at 18.08.14 13:52:31 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 34) : That is some logic… I still believe he should just be given some time to get used to the position. In the last 2 years, with all his injuries and Frans Steyn coming back, how much time did he really get at 12? The guy works really hard, just give him and Sithole time to grow as a 12/13 combo. And give them some more game time with an on song Lambie or Zeilinga!

  • Comment 38, posted at 18.08.14 13:54:56 by HeinF Reply

    HeinFTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 27) : No, he’s not a lock…he’s a loose forward

  • Comment 39, posted at 18.08.14 13:56:39 by Ludz Reply

    LudzSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 34) : Rob it seems to me as if the Sharks coaching structures are over obsessed with picking fast players. It almost seems as if they want to pick the fastest 7 players and make them fit into a back line. Jordaan is a good player but I don’t like him at 12. Heimar and André is way better attacking 12 than Jordaan.

  • Comment 40, posted at 18.08.14 13:57:06 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Ludz (Comment 39) : yeah, I know, but conscious that he’s being seen as a makeshift lock at the moment and wondering if he has any plans for that to continue.

  • Comment 41, posted at 18.08.14 13:57:46 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 34) :
    :shock:

    JDV used to do a sub-11 100m until quite recently, so that doesn’t hold.

    I think the problem is that he doesn’t run straight enough or draw enough tacklers.

    I’d quite like to see him running from 15.

  • Comment 42, posted at 18.08.14 14:02:38 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 40) : I’m going to raise this point with Sean when I chat to him this week.

  • Comment 43, posted at 18.08.14 14:05:53 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : but he does not always get through the gaps and then there is no space for the outside backs. I believe a 12 must be a grafter not a shiner, it’s the work of a 12 to draw in defenders straighten the line and allow the outside backs the space to shine. Yes sometimes he can go for the outside gap but not every time.

  • Comment 44, posted at 18.08.14 14:09:17 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 42) : look bud, you know as well as I do that I know sweet fanny adams about backline play…. Just putting it out there as a contentious statement to draw out some opinions from which I can learn more

  • Comment 45, posted at 18.08.14 14:10:13 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 43) : is Heimar still around? Seems as if he’s out of favour with the coaches?

  • Comment 46, posted at 18.08.14 14:14:50 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 45) :
    Well, you did draw out my opinion, but sadly you probably won’t learn much from it.

    Still, how about Jordaan at 15, running with space and from broken play? Will certainly dampen opposition enthusiasm for pointless kicking.

  • Comment 47, posted at 18.08.14 14:16:24 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 46) : he is around yes, still very much in the squad. Just has two Bok squad members ahead of him.

    @Big Fish (Comment 47) : does that mean S’bura back at wing? I see that as a retroactive step.

  • Comment 48, posted at 18.08.14 14:17:37 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 45) : ja look it’s basically the same here but I have an opinion about back line play but it does not mean that it’s correct.

  • Comment 49, posted at 18.08.14 14:18:33 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 48) :
    Jammer – I meant 15. Corrected now.

    I think anyone moving Sbura from 13 needs their head read – and that includes Jake during the last few SR games.

  • Comment 50, posted at 18.08.14 14:20:11 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 48) : must say I rate Heimar as the second best 12 at the Sharks (Frans is no1). He must just get the chance to show it. Just hope the Sharks don’t realise how good Heimar is after he’s gone.

  • Comment 51, posted at 18.08.14 14:23:51 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 50) : Sbura is a very good player the way he gets away from defenders is superb. For me he could play 13 or wing as he’s good in both position and on the point of wing I believe that this year he was way better than JPP and should have started ahead of him.

  • Comment 52, posted at 18.08.14 14:28:45 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 50) : this could be genius… I mean, let’s face it. It’s not like we have much of a 15 at the moment.

    I’m just not sure about Jordaan’s boot, is the thing. Jake has a thing about wanting a left-footed fullback and I’m not sure Tollie is left-handed either.

  • Comment 53, posted at 18.08.14 14:28:59 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 52) : S’bura doesn’t get enough ball at wing

  • Comment 54, posted at 18.08.14 14:29:24 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 54) : at the moment he does not get enough ball at 13. The problem is when Jordaan is picked at 13 Sbura is dropped and I’d rather have him on the wing than the bench.

  • Comment 55, posted at 18.08.14 14:33:00 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 47) : Now that idea I like! Can definitely see Jordaan wrecking havoc on attack from 15 and defensively we all know he’s capable.

    Would love to see that happen.

  • Comment 56, posted at 18.08.14 14:33:45 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaosTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 53) : Mvovo????? I think Jodaan will make a great wing.

  • Comment 57, posted at 18.08.14 14:35:19 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 57) : oh shit ja, sorry. But I kind of meant in Currie cup, although it does make no sense to shift Jordaan to 15 only for Currie Cup

  • Comment 58, posted at 18.08.14 14:42:38 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Sbura is the quickest Shark and one of the strongest backs. I think having him at 13 is the best use of his physical gifts. His ability to tackle and quickly compete for the ball also makes him deadly on the drift defence or back-track situation.

    Jordaan has played 10 at U21 level for a number of years, and also used to kick at goal of I recall correctly. I doubt that he will lack a good kicking boot.

    His forte is using pace and guile – a good mix for 15. Perhaps less of an option in the tight midfield defences of today.

  • Comment 59, posted at 18.08.14 15:09:12 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 58) : for the Currie cup I would go with SP or Odwa. Give SP some time maybe he will get some form back.

  • Comment 60, posted at 18.08.14 15:10:53 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • Jordaan might be fast but he seldom pass the ball….in my humble opinion.

  • Comment 61, posted at 18.08.14 15:20:26 by Coco Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 58) : Rob any news on André? How serious is his injury?

  • Comment 62, posted at 18.08.14 15:27:18 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • I think Jordaan and Sbu needs more time to settle as a combination before a call is made on Jordaan’s suitability to 12. I think the threat Jordaan poses at 12 keeps opposition defences very honest, which means it can be exploited. Give him the time to learn how to draw in everyone focused on his channel and give Sbu the time to learn how to read Paul and who knows, we might have a devastating midfield.

  • Comment 63, posted at 18.08.14 15:39:29 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • Can I throw a spanner in the works here and suggest that Kyle Cooper is a better bet at hooker for the Sharks going forward than Bismarck.

    - he is far better with ball in hand.
    - much more effective carrying the ball
    - just as solid on defence
    - doesn’t loose out at scrum time it seems

    Bissie is just pure muscle. Its all about moer and bliksem with him. This helps in his competing on the ground but not much else.

    If the Sharks want to play that all round game that we the fans crave, i feel this is one of the decisions that needs to be made!!

    ….let the hating begin

  • Comment 64, posted at 18.08.14 15:41:10 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 63) : And this combo is another one that we need to settle on if the Sharks want to explore a more balanced game.

  • Comment 65, posted at 18.08.14 15:42:42 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • Guys, what about switching Sbura and Jordaan, Sbura surely got the strenght and speed for a 12, and he will keep defenders busy…. just a thought :?:

  • Comment 66, posted at 18.08.14 15:43:31 by Henkb Reply
    Author
    HBAssistant coach
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 64) :
    I personally think that spanner fell on your head first. :wink:

    I really rate Cooper, but Bismark is the best host in the world.

  • Comment 67, posted at 18.08.14 15:44:12 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 59) : Yup. I would not even consider Sbura anywhere other than 13. He got a bok squad call up based on how well he has excelled there. He was a 3rd choice wing not long ago for the Sharks.

    Also feel like Jordaan at 15 has the potential to provide us with a lethal strike weapon not too dissimilar to guys like Ben Smith/Folau/le Roux.

  • Comment 68, posted at 18.08.14 15:51:24 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaosTeam captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 62) : Ive not heard anything.

  • Comment 69, posted at 18.08.14 15:55:33 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 68) : Mvovo should stay at 15, he can be our answer to Ben Smith etc. And before anyone start moaning about his kicking, even Willie was not a good kicker, but it is a skill that can be learned.

  • Comment 70, posted at 18.08.14 15:57:40 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 70) : Willie still isn’t a good kicker

  • Comment 71, posted at 18.08.14 16:01:32 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : According to whom, you say?

    According to Loftus 8/16

  • Comment 72, posted at 18.08.14 16:02:07 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : True, but he is much better than what he was.

  • Comment 73, posted at 18.08.14 16:11:36 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 64) : what you smoking boet? Sorry to burst your bubble but Bissie is probably the best in the world.

  • Comment 74, posted at 18.08.14 16:13:26 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 70) : Not putting Mvovo out of the picture as I rated him at 15, but my gut feeling is that Paul is better suited. And I really like Mvovo on the wing due to that ridiculous acceleration of his and eye for the tryline. That is also where he plays for the boks.

    Jordaan is more of an elusive runner IMO, in that Ben Smith mould so to speak.

  • Comment 75, posted at 18.08.14 16:30:22 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaosTeam captain
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 75) : ja could be but I have a feeling that JW will use him at 12/13 so I don’t think we will ever find out.

  • Comment 76, posted at 18.08.14 16:34:18 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 75) :
    Also easier to get a guy into the 15 jersey while he still has time on his side.

    15 and 13 have lots in common actually. His experience at 10 and 12 would be an added bonus.

  • Comment 77, posted at 18.08.14 16:47:34 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 41) : Doubt it, he’s about 193..so too short, also don’t think he’s heavier than 110kg which is a bit light for a 2nd rower

  • Comment 78, posted at 18.08.14 16:53:24 by Ludz Reply

    LudzSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JD (Comment 76) : Yup you are most likely 100% correct on that. But it has been one of the ideas that’s just piqued my interest.

  • Comment 79, posted at 18.08.14 17:03:17 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaosTeam captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 77) : Good point!

    Don’t have stats to back this up, but it does seem to me like we have not exactly gained that much territory to justify the kicking from the back. Personally would not mind seeing a pure counter attacking FB, knowing that it will not always work out.

  • Comment 80, posted at 18.08.14 17:15:26 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaosTeam captain
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 80) : the balance of when to run and when to kick is the big thing that a top fullback must be able to get right.

  • Comment 81, posted at 18.08.14 17:22:18 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 81) : Do agree with that statement completely.

    I guess what I mean’t was “when in doubt… run with it, rather than kick it.”

  • Comment 82, posted at 18.08.14 17:36:51 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaosTeam captain
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 82) : no, only run if there’s space and support to do so.

  • Comment 83, posted at 18.08.14 18:38:46 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 67) : I can see how u believe that, being a fan of the kick and chase/stampcar game ;-) !!!

    Tell me now that u believe Bismarck is a superior ball carrier?

  • Comment 84, posted at 19.08.14 01:51:35 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @JD (Comment 74) : Yes but he is a defensive minded player – bloody good at that yes, but defensive nonetheless!!!

  • Comment 85, posted at 19.08.14 01:52:42 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 64) :

    I think your assessment of Bissie is of the mark.

    I do however feel Kyle should get more game time going forward and since Bissie is 30 and Kyle is 25, it would certainly be a good idea to start to make some sort of transition.

  • Comment 86, posted at 19.08.14 07:49:07 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • On the Kyle/Bissie debate…Kyle probably offers mroe on attack but less on defense. Bissie’s lineouts are probably better at the moment. And then there is the intangible…Bissie’s name on a team sheet scares the opposition a lot more than Kyle’s at the moment. As for Jordaan/Sithole…id leave them at 12/13…harsh on Williams who I also believe is quality. I think we are too tyoe cast on where a guy must play…so why cant Jordaan/Sithole keep switching during a game? Jeez that would get opposition a headache. Same as for Oosthuizen and Astle – both can interchange between lock and loosie I feel. We moan about boring Bok rugby..well for us to progress to the next level guys need to be able to interchange. So your 10 must be just as comfortable at 15…your 15 must be able to take the ball and distribute as a 10. your 6/7 must be able to both fetch and carry. only doing 1 thing makes for predictability and ask ANY defensive coach- predictability is what you want from the opposition

  • Comment 87, posted at 19.08.14 08:11:05 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • It seems we are disillusioned to think PJ is an illusive,how many defenders did he beat in the cc so far?? I wonder how his stats compare to S’bura as a 13 as they are both good defensively and fast off the mark but I however believe S’bura is a bigger threat offensively(pun intended) :twisted: so don’t you guys think with his better boot PJ is a better option @wing than S’bura :?: SP just needs to be coached properly @15 as he has the attributes just taking the wrong options and also needs to learn to put supporting players away and not die with the ball.

  • Comment 88, posted at 19.08.14 09:47:47 by Chippa Reply

    ChippaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 84) :
    Those who know me will be chuckling at your monumental mis-assumption, but anyway… Bismark is a better carrier around the fringes, but Cooper is fantastic in the loose – reminds me a bit of a pre-alcohol Lukas van Biljon.

    @Chippa (Comment 88) :
    Spot on in my opinion. I think that Sbura has done nothing to earn a trip to the wing, and every reason that is given to motivate this applies even more to Jordaan.

    Both fantastic players, but I really do believe that Jordaan could be a revelation with a bit more space and freedom.

  • Comment 89, posted at 19.08.14 09:57:54 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • I love virtually everything about Bismarck, but his upright, slow, I-can’t-be-assed-to-make-a-yard approach to taking the ball into contact REALLY frustrates me.

  • Comment 90, posted at 19.08.14 10:05:09 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 90) : Agreed

  • Comment 91, posted at 19.08.14 10:15:01 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 90) :

    Rob, Bissie is a marked player. He draws lots of attention, which makes it so much harder to look like he-can-be-assed-to-make-a-yard.

    Cooper came onto the scene and looked like he would run over just about any opponent, he’s also looked more subdued lately though and I don’t think that’s because of an attitude change or drop in form, but rather because he’s been noticed and now gets the attention he deserves.

    Anyway, like I said, I would love to see Kyle get more 20/30 min cameos and even a full game here and there. He’s by far a good enough player to do this and Bissie needs the rest anyhow.

    Really it would be a win win to give Kyle more game time. He will develop as a player and we can keep Bissie rested.

    I don’t think the fact that Bissie has played every single game this season helps him either. He looks tired, as does Jannie.

  • Comment 92, posted at 19.08.14 10:18:06 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish(comment 89):What do you think about TC?? I think he is a liability defensively and should be introduced 2nd half when the game is a bit loose??

  • Comment 93, posted at 19.08.14 10:20:44 by Chippa Reply

    ChippaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 89) : Calm down I was joking about that reference.

    And I disagree with that as well – Ive seen Cooper pick up and go to great effect.

    @robdylan (Comment 90) : Perfect assessment of his ball carrying.

    And gents do not assume I do not rate the man. He is a beast and exceptional at what he does do. I am merely referring to the defensive nature of his approach – typical of the Springbok mentality. It is not based on space or even creating space, which should come from every player!!

    Take Michael Hooper for example (different position of course but the point is valid) – He would never have been selected for the Boks had he been South African. And he is, in my opinion, better than any loosie we have to offer right now!! He is an attacking player first and foremost. Better carrier than any of our loosies, as good defensively and steals balls well (Flo has him in this department perhaps). And his linking with the backs is unparalleled in Bok rugby. Kieran Read and McCaw are naturally in the same boat.

    In saying this – the Aussies have proven what skills coaching and different tactical approach can do for a player like Jacques Potgieter who used to be in the same boat. Perhaps with coaching this would change my opinion, but do you see them doing that in the near future??

  • Comment 94, posted at 19.08.14 10:21:10 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 90) : @Letgo (Comment 92) : @Big Fish (Comment 89) : Btw fellow Sharkies…how is the youngster Cameron Wright coming along??? We are in desperate need of a scrummy with a broad skill set and the rugby brain to make intelligent tactical decisions…

  • Comment 95, posted at 19.08.14 10:24:11 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 92) :
    Good points.

    @Chippa (Comment 93) :
    I think he’s goof for CC at least. His pace alone makes him a threat and improves or kick chase percentage. To be honest, i think that SP is the weak link at the moment. Having a real threat running from the back will help us make up for not having the game breaking talents of Reinach, Kanko and Daniel available.

    @pienaar111 (Comment 94) :

    I know – no offence taken.

    I really rate Cooper. In fact I actually feel he’s been very good so far this CC despite him making less big carries. His basics have been good and he had avoided dying with the ball – traditionally a weakness. But like I said – Bismark’s strength, leadership and presence are unmatched. As mentioned above, he draws multiple tacklers whenever he gets the ball – which is great for the team.

    @pienaar111 (Comment 95) :
    Looks a great prospect. Was concerned when Ungerer was injured cos i really ratell him. Now, it looks like he might not get a look in!

  • Comment 96, posted at 19.08.14 10:36:02 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 95) :I disagree as we do have those type of players at most of the Unions e.g Whiteley, Kriel, Carr, Tera and Marcel with a bit of work that needs to be done on his link-up play and Arno Botha is one of the best all rounded Loosie as he is powerful,quick, steals a ball or two and can link-up play very well. What needs to be tweaked is the game plan. Our good coaches aside from WP dou of AC&GS,JA,HM&Rassie,JS and JW we have BV,NM and DM who are not interested in coaching our local sides and I also think DV learned alot from his 4yrs with the Boks.

  • Comment 97, posted at 19.08.14 12:18:18 by Chippa Reply

    ChippaVodacom Cup player
     
  • Imagine the Cheetahs with BV as DOR,NM as Bulls DOR and PDV as Kings DOR with JS involved with JA at the Lions, Henyecke would sleep a bit better at night. DM assistant to DT for the junior Boks :mrgreen:

  • Comment 98, posted at 19.08.14 12:23:58 by Chippa Reply

    ChippaVodacom Cup player
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 95) :

    I like his pass, I like his vision, even though sporadic at the moment, I think with time he could be great. I think the inconsistency has a lot to do with inexperience.

  • Comment 99, posted at 19.08.14 14:43:00 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     

Add Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.