Letgo

Making another call for rotation


Written by Maria Delport (Letgo)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Sharks on 27 Aug 2014 at 14:28

If memory serves me, during Super Rugby we were told, (paraphrasing) – The competitive nature of this competition does not allow for a rotational system, and – You have to play your best available players, and – There is no easy game allowing the selection of weaker teams and, and and….

Currie Cup has now arrived, a weakened Currie Cup at that, with the Rugby Championship selected players unavailable, all the way through to the play-offs. The Sharks have lost 14 players to the Springboks and overseas clubs, of those 14, 11 will return during Super Rugby.

The Currie Cup players who are now starting in place of the above mentioned 11 players should provide good back-up during the 2015 Super Rugby season, but how about the positions where we do not have returning players and where we could possibly struggle with depth next year – fullback and lock being the most glaringly obvious of these trouble areas, but considering that Jacques Botes will retire at the end of the year and we have not settled on a blind side flank yet, we might also have to look at this as an area of concern. I am also not yet convinced that we should feel comfortable with Paul Jordaan as our only cover at inside center, especially since he will also be seen as an outside center once Frans Steyn returns. Some experimentation here and giving other players a go at the 12 jersey, might not be a bad idea.

Looking at the Super Rugby, Currie Cup and Back-up players in the column below, it becomes clear which positions need more depth and which players need more time during Currie Cup to provide that depth.

table

 The Back-up players who need some Currie Cup exposure the most are Jaco van Tonder, Sizo Maseko, Heimar Williams, Andre Esterhuizen, Khaya Majola, JC Astle and perhaps Tyler Fisher should also get a run.

 Andre Esterhuizen, who is seemingly standing on an in-or-out status, should surely be given a run at either 12/7 to see what he is made of, while Paul Jordaan, who have not looked particularly comfortable in the inside center channel, should possibly be given an opportunity in the outside backs, to see whether his pace and vision can be better utilized in these positions. Stephan Ungerer should slot back in when he returns from his injury, while Fred Zeilinga should continue in is position to gain in confidence and experience. Jaco van Tonder, Sizo Maseko, Heimar Williams, Johan Meyer, Khaya Majola and JC Astle could also get some much needed Currie Cup exposure.

If our coaches continue with the same players week after week, we are going to struggle if injury hits (certain positions in particular) during Super Rugby 2015.



87 Comments

  • Rotattion is unlikely to happen in the Currie Cup unless forced by injury. New coaches means they need to do well to secure their jobs. Building depth wont be their concern

  • Comment 1, posted at 27.08.14 14:44:05 by SheldonK Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 1) :

    What’s weird for me is, that since our DOR has a hand in everything and his job (and hopes for higher prospects) will largely depend on SR 2015 success, you would think he would like to have a look at a couple of options in certain positions.

  • Comment 2, posted at 27.08.14 14:51:32 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 1) : @Letgo (Comment 2) :

    Isn’t that the point of having a DOR, to have someone look after the general health of the union, not just his own ass?

  • Comment 3, posted at 27.08.14 14:52:42 by Letgo Reply
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  • Spot on,you would think that a large strong franchise like the Sharks would be geared toward winning Super Rugby,but its not,eish

  • Comment 4, posted at 27.08.14 14:54:39 by benji Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 2) :

    Name me one instance where your DOR has rotated anything.

  • Comment 5, posted at 27.08.14 15:00:46 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 3) : It seems JW is quite removed from anything regarding the CC and is more looking at the Juniors and how players are coached and brought through there. I have a slight feeling that a lot of these CC guys will be bypassed and guys from u21s will be the ‘backup’ for Super rugby next year

  • Comment 6, posted at 27.08.14 15:01:08 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 5) : I believe he changes between chips and veg quite often at Spur…

  • Comment 7, posted at 27.08.14 15:01:53 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 8) :

    Hehe. Touche mate.

  • Comment 8, posted at 27.08.14 15:02:40 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 5) :
    He clearly belongs to the Allister Coetzee school of thought regarding player rotation.

  • Comment 9, posted at 27.08.14 15:06:35 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 10) :

    Yeah – dont get me started on that either. AC is another one who believes in flogging a player until he falls over and then raiding the junior sides for replacements.

  • Comment 10, posted at 27.08.14 15:07:36 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 2) : I think he is scouring Facebook looking for anyone over 1.95 and weighing in at 115kg +

  • Comment 11, posted at 27.08.14 15:07:55 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 5) : I heard a rumour he did rotate the tires on his SUV the other day :grin:

  • Comment 12, posted at 27.08.14 15:15:04 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 5) :

    Look, I’ve always been a massive fan of JW, even when everyone else were doubtful just before the world cup. I like the way he thinks and the way he explains what he is thinking. I just don’t agree that you can build a good squad if you don’t rotate during CC and I can’t see how you can keep players fit and healthy during SR if you aren’t willing to use your number 2 players every now and then.

    I don’t agree with him on his rotation policy, but hey, who am I do disagree.

  • Comment 13, posted at 27.08.14 15:22:00 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 13) :

    :-)

    I also heard to attempted to rotate. But it ended up as a pivot instead.

  • Comment 14, posted at 27.08.14 15:22:29 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 14) :

    Yeah, I know you’ve always been a fan.
    I liked him for a while. All of about 2 months.

  • Comment 15, posted at 27.08.14 15:23:44 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 5) :

    Jobs.

  • Comment 16, posted at 27.08.14 15:26:04 by Morné Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 13) : For me it is not just a case of keeping guys fit and healthy – injuries will hit a team at any point anyway. For me the biggest benefit is about keeping players mentally fresh plus making sure your squad are all comfortable playing together as a team.

  • Comment 17, posted at 27.08.14 15:27:30 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 6) : Not much happening in the u/21′s going by their performance against the Cheetahs u/21′s two weeks ago. The cheque book will have to be brandished.

  • Comment 18, posted at 27.08.14 15:28:04 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 15) : Your team is stuck with two of his students…

    ..and the two teams I support are stuck with two of Mallet’s students….so we should blame all of this on Mallet :twisted:

  • Comment 19, posted at 27.08.14 15:29:13 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 17) :

    Lol.
    Every 12 months or so… with an hiatus every few years!

  • Comment 20, posted at 27.08.14 15:29:23 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 18) : That was my concern too after watching the u19s and u21s this year. the Sharks are producing ave guys. The betetr guys seem to want instant success so if they dont get it here they go overseas.

  • Comment 21, posted at 27.08.14 15:36:18 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 17) : That, plus rewarding the guys that have put in the hard yards will surely boost them with confidence; thus making them better players. I believe if you have a strong, confident and happy squad, you will go far in any competition. Not just a happy starting 15 – The whole squad. I realise you can’t please everyone, but by selecting the same 22 guys week in and week out you sure are looking to cause more than a few grunts from the rest.

  • Comment 22, posted at 27.08.14 15:36:21 by Another Nick Reply

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  • I think we should recall Dan Kriel to cover 12 as he is not even close to the 1st team :?: We should also push for the Griquas 8th man to cover 7&8,Tyler Fisher was seen by JW as a Fullback I think and I think Elstadt will strugle to see gametime as he is seen as a 7,with the current loosies and SB&DF coming back for SR we could take him as cover for 4&7 :?:

  • Comment 23, posted at 27.08.14 15:38:39 by Chippa Reply

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  • I am still surprised at how flush we suddenly are at scrumhalf. I’m hoping there are more of those surprises in store at lock and flank.

    Oh, and the lack of rotation still sucks!

  • Comment 24, posted at 27.08.14 15:49:21 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 24) : Whose hiding all the locks?? haha

  • Comment 25, posted at 27.08.14 15:53:28 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 25) : France

  • Comment 26, posted at 27.08.14 15:58:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @ :grin: SheldonK (Comment 25) : It could only be John Mitchell

  • Comment 27, posted at 27.08.14 15:59:21 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 26) : The bladdy French… @vanmartin (Comment 27) : Is he French too? haha

  • Comment 28, posted at 27.08.14 16:00:59 by SheldonK Reply

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  • JW has coached out all my excitement for the CC and SR. I have no faith that we will win anything this year or the next. My dream is for BV to come back.

  • Comment 29, posted at 27.08.14 17:47:23 by JarsonX Reply
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  • It will never happen until we get BV back!!!! I’m really sad we lost him.

  • Comment 30, posted at 27.08.14 22:03:37 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 30) :

    We didn’t lose him though, he was always only going to be with us temporally.

  • Comment 31, posted at 27.08.14 22:31:05 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 31) : ja but I was hoping for longer than 6 months.

  • Comment 32, posted at 27.08.14 22:42:40 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 32) :

    I think maybe if it was longer than three months, it wouldn’t have been just an “fling” anymore, and we’d probably start to complain about things he started doing as well.

    I think JW is a good coach. It’s a damn hard job to be a coach. I really don’t think we’ll ever be completely happy unless we start dominating SR and I don’t think that would be as simple as, get another coach in.

    I’m still backing JW to do the job for us next year, before Super Rugby will become Sad-drawn-out-Rugby with the new format in 2016.

  • Comment 33, posted at 28.08.14 06:32:08 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 33) : I really hope I’m wrong but I dont think Super rugby 2015 is going to be fun unless JW can change things drastically over December/January break.

  • Comment 34, posted at 28.08.14 08:31:44 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 34) :

    From what I know about Jake, when he starts as a coach, he first builds structures (the team), then basics (their skills), then progresses to update the game play (which I believe will include expansive play – remember WC 2007).

    A few good things already happened under Jake.

    Bissie’s capitaincy.
    Frans Steyn’s return to form.
    Marcelle’s drastic turn in form since his 2014 struggles.
    Lambie being intrusted with the fly-half duties.
    The unearthing of Lewies, Sithole and addition of E Oosthuizen in important positions for the Sharks.
    Jordaan’s successful shift to 12 (at least for SR).
    Mvovo’s success at 15.
    The return of Chivanga.
    Mtembu’s Captaincy.

    Our drastic improvement in line-outs (a horribly exposed set piece under Plum).
    A general improvement in the set pieces (mauls, scrums), although scrums were up and down, it is still an improved area.
    A clear indication of focus on improving our general kicking game – we are still struggling with this, but I feel the Sharks are a much improved side when it comes to tactical and positional kicking (SP).
    Breakdown defense and attack, much improved (even though this is still a struggle, under Plum, the protection of our breakdown became a huge liability).

    Once we can do the above even better, I feel like there will be a shift in our focus to, general ball in hand skills.

    Rome wasn’t built in a day…

    I feel Jake could be missing a trick by not ensuring that enough players are given a run during CC and making sure he has players that he can trust to do a job for him, when his first choice players need a rest during SR.

    Odwa, Chivanga, Fred, Ungerer/Wright/Hofmann/Venter, Mtembu, Lewies, Astle, Louwrence, Cooper, Thomas/Chadwick – provides good cover for 14/11/10/9/8/5/4/3/2/1 and can benefit from CC game time, but the 15, 13/12, 7/6 is areas where we are definitely thin on depth and need to explore strong options that would be able to step in should our first choice be unavailable.

  • Comment 35, posted at 28.08.14 09:24:25 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 35) : Firstly the WC 2007 squad’s expansive play was due to Eddie Jones. Till then it was exactly what we are seeing from the Sharks now.

    Secondly the Sharks lineouts have been woeful, primarily because Bismarck battles to hit a barn door at times.

    Thirdly I will beg to differ on Bissie and Mthembu’s captaincy, as well as Frans Steyn’s form, that is open for debate, as well as Jordaan at 12, his hands are terrible!!

    Lastly much of the Sharks play revolves around big ball carriers bashing it up. And with Deysel gone, and Alberts pretty easy to read, I see lots of gaping holes in the Sharks planning sofar for next year.

    Best get the cheque book out, because their isn’t much coming through from the junior ranks.

  • Comment 36, posted at 28.08.14 09:32:30 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 35) : I read somewhere that Marcel credited his new prowess at the breakdown by spending so much time with Ritchie Gray and Francois Louw at the Boks last year.

  • Comment 37, posted at 28.08.14 09:36:26 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 35) : @KingCheetah (Comment 36) : You know it’s not a simple cut and dried matter when there’s plenty to agree with on both sides of the debate.

    Incoming tired cliche: Time will ultimately tell how wrong or right White got it.

    Personally, I feel John Mitchell could be a great foil to White but do you think he responds to my tweets regarding this? :grin:

  • Comment 38, posted at 28.08.14 09:42:00 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 37) :

    Marcell was all over the place last year, not just in the breakdown area. His general play has now also improved… maybe it is because he now has confidence.

  • Comment 39, posted at 28.08.14 09:42:02 by Letgo Reply
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  • Jake seems to be very methodical and good at putting systems together. I do feel he needs to team up with a more adventurous out-of-the-box outspoken assistant coach like Eddie Jones or Laurie Fischer to counteract his own conservative nature.

  • Comment 40, posted at 28.08.14 09:47:23 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 36) :

    No offense, but I think it is gullible to think Eddie Jones made all the difference when he stepped in, in 2007, for the very short stint he did.

    And why do we think it all just got together like it did and why was the timing so perfect?

    JW 2007 were ready to step it up a gear and he called someone in that he believed could help them do that.

    If you look at the general basic skills at the Sharks, I doubt very much that we would look good if we started throwing the ball around, like the Ausies or 2010 Reds or, 2014 Waratahs or like the All Blacks always inevitably start to do during all of their matches.

    I honestly feel like Plumtree’s success mainly came because of the names he were able to put down on his team sheet. Maybe that’s to critical, but the things we did under him, at times, were worryingly bad – I can still see our players doing those same things, but much less than before.

  • Comment 41, posted at 28.08.14 09:49:12 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 40) :

    I don’t think that option is out of the question, I think maybe the reason it hasn’t happened yet, is because Jake feels it is still too early.

    I am really hoping for at least a 6 year stint from Jake at the Sharks. Let HM do what he’s doing with the Boks, I think we’ll only be able to get the best out of Jake’s services if he stays for an extended period. Maybe after that, they’ll be ready to give him another shot at the Boks, especially if the Sharks had won SR 2015/ ’17/’18/’19 and the Boks are still struggling to beat sides like Argentina and haven’t recorded a single victory against the All Blacks in 8 years.

  • Comment 42, posted at 28.08.14 09:53:21 by Letgo Reply
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  • Lets just say this…

    Unlike others here (and everywhere else, it seems), I think Jake’s an excellent coach and will do great things with the Sharks, especially if he stays after WC 2016.

    What I don’t understand is the Sharks’ resistance to implementing a proper rotational system through all the competitions and structures, ensuring player and union health.

    I really haven’t heard one good argument from the Sharks that has convinced me that they are doing the right thing by consistently playing the same players – some to the point where they have gone from “best-player-in-the-world” status, to “go-back-to-CC-please” status.

  • Comment 43, posted at 28.08.14 10:02:17 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 43) : Our DOR does not believe in whole scale rotation.

  • Comment 44, posted at 28.08.14 10:09:33 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 42) : I am really hoping for at least a 6 year stint from Jake at the Sharks.

    Jeez Letgo, I thought I was an eternal optimist but you just took the cake with that one.

  • Comment 45, posted at 28.08.14 10:30:09 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 44) : Jake believe in rotating players when their bodies require it….after injury :twisted:

  • Comment 46, posted at 28.08.14 10:37:27 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 35) : I think we not sure of our backup to Bissie&Cooper as the 3rd hooker and whois the 3rd 10?? We must start thinking past 1st&2nd choice only because when injury strikes we need to go further than the 2and this is in addition to these positions you listed above 15, 13/12, 7/6. I would not go as far as saying PJ was a success @12 in SR because he is just good @defending the channel but can’t get his outside backs away which stiffels our attack. Elstadt would be a great option in the 7&4 jersey with his physicality,he is down the pecking order in the Cape,if Esterhuizen is retained then we have good cover for 12 with PJ moving to cover 13 with Tyler.Then our problems could be sorted. PSDT is also a good 7 :mrgreen:

  • Comment 47, posted at 28.08.14 10:44:50 by Chippa Reply

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  • @Chippa (Comment 47) : you know, it’s funny. I thought about this the other night. With Lewies stepping up as such a good option at 5, there’s a distinct possibility that PS’s Sharks future could lie in the back row.

  • Comment 48, posted at 28.08.14 10:51:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 35) : sorry to say but Jordaan at 12 is a joke, line outs was poor last year because Bizzy was out for most of Super rugby, also remember JW did not get the Plum special he got his team from BV that was already a huge improvement on the Super rugby team.
    My biggest worry for next year is depth. A lot of good players left and there is not a lot of young players ready to step up.

  • Comment 49, posted at 28.08.14 11:14:55 by JD Reply
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  • @Chippa (Comment 47) : @robdylan (Comment 48) : Would suit his style of play like a glove (he played there for Jnr. Boks)…much better than 7 flank fits an inside center. ;-)

  • Comment 50, posted at 28.08.14 11:15:05 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 48) : I think HM may eye PSDT as a backup 7 as well and then to replace Alberts. Are the u21 sides out yet? Curious to see if Esterhuizen is fit and if he will be trialled at 7 again.

  • Comment 51, posted at 28.08.14 11:21:29 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 50) :@Chippa (Comment 47) : @robdylan (Comment 48) : while we shifting players how about playing JPP at 8 he played lock at school so he should fit in?

  • Comment 52, posted at 28.08.14 11:23:39 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 51) : not yet…. keeping an eye open for them

  • Comment 53, posted at 28.08.14 11:36:18 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 53) : Ya very interesting hey Rob. Keen to see if and where Esterhuizen is used. Same for Swiel as i think Brendon Cope was good last time out. Also bit puzzling that the DuPReez boys being used in u19s…thought they would be used to bolster a poor u21 side.

  • Comment 54, posted at 28.08.14 11:52:55 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 52) : PSDT is not a natural 5 but was converted and coached to fit there,he is a 7 and played there for the Boks last year,with Lewies it would make sense but if there is a 7(Elstadt)brought in then there is no reason to retain [email protected] is a better 7 than most in any case ;-)

  • Comment 55, posted at 28.08.14 12:30:05 by Chippa Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 42) : I doubt that Jake will hang around at the Sharks for another 6 years.

  • Comment 56, posted at 28.08.14 13:09:10 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 54) : I want to see more of Cope. Not writing off Swiel but I just have a feeling Cope might be a diamond in the rough for the Sharks.

  • Comment 57, posted at 28.08.14 13:32:14 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 57) : Cope is a bloody good flyhalf. He’s consistently been overlooked (at the start of campaigns) for all the “big name” players ahead of him, yet towards the business end, he always seems to be the guy that the coaches turn to.

  • Comment 58, posted at 28.08.14 13:36:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 38) : Lol, the bugger!

  • Comment 59, posted at 28.08.14 13:36:59 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • the problem with Jake White is that he’s notoriously difficult to work with.

    Why do you think the good Doctor is no longer involved? Jake’s “my way or the highway” approach alienates everyone.

    Would love to know how he and John Mitchell, another guy with very strong opinions and a NOTORIOUSLY short fuse, would work together in any constructive way.

  • Comment 60, posted at 28.08.14 13:39:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 36) :

    The Legend of Eddie Jones, is based on 1 good game against an England team who was 7th ranked at the time.
    The rest of his 8 or so matches with the Boks, were either drab affairs and/or against lower ranked team.

    Nothing more than fan fantasy.

  • Comment 61, posted at 28.08.14 13:48:02 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : Although to be fair to Jake the good Doctor only agreed to hang around for a couple of months.

  • Comment 62, posted at 28.08.14 14:03:35 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : It can obviously go either way but I’ve seen strong personalities have a calming effect on each other. Iron sharpens iron and all that jazz. In my minds eye I see epic shouting matches that would put any fiery Italian love affair to shame where all the pent up “moerigheid” gets aired by both followed by constructive coaching sessions on field where the Sharks get schooled in aggresive defence, proper attack, rock-solid set pieces and sensible kicking. That’s the dream Rob! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 63, posted at 28.08.14 14:10:56 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 61) : Which is still better than the fantasy that is Jake White. That said, he has managed to totally destroy the exciting brand of rugby the Sharks played before, lets see if the magic all the Sharks fans are waiting for is going to materialise. The Sharks junior rugby teams are sucking on the hind teat at the moment, and no representation at Varsity Cup level robs them of valuable exposure.

  • Comment 64, posted at 28.08.14 15:54:38 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 64) :

    The exciting brand… the Sharks haven’t played exciting rugby for a very long time… very, very long time.

    I would say in 2007 we had a good mix of running/pressure rugby, but nothing after that – maybe a game here and there, but nothing to get too excited about.

    Really, it’s like Jake changed it all on his own all at once. I think our kicking game is better in him and maybe used a little more, but not much…

    If Jake is such a kick at all cost kind of guy what the Hell happened at the Brumbies, that was obviously also not his doing???

    I’m just saying, a lot of negativity is aimed at the guy.

  • Comment 65, posted at 28.08.14 16:41:28 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 45) :

    I’ve also been hoping and been genuinely believing that we will win SR since 2007…

    In Jakes case, I’m only hoping… don’t think it will happen. Never even thought he would coach the Sharks, but what’s he going to do if the Boks don’t pick him up? Just leave? And go where?

  • Comment 66, posted at 28.08.14 16:43:27 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 66) :

    Another International team, I suppose, but for that to happen I think he would have to do something special at the Sharks and so far, I don’t think he’ll be able to add anything to his resume that would inspire an international coaching job call.

    If he does get the call though, then here’s hoping it’s after safely locking the Super Rugby Trophy in the Kings Park cabinet.

  • Comment 67, posted at 28.08.14 16:46:23 by Letgo Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 61) : Let me take a wild flyer here – you are one of the guys that somehow manages to overlook the piss poor teams that HM enhances his win ratio with, and yet…

  • Comment 68, posted at 28.08.14 17:03:58 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 64) : Well it does free us up do do other things on game day. I honestly havent been so bored with watching the Sharks (win or lose) as I have this year. Think back to the start of the season how the crowds came in and you could see it getting less and less as the season went on, even though we were winning.

  • Comment 69, posted at 28.08.14 17:07:52 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Chippa (Comment 47) : Elstadt has serious injury / recovery issues.

  • Comment 70, posted at 28.08.14 17:09:09 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 65) : Hmmm you make a valid point. Maybe the Brumbies just executed better then? They also kicked a lot, but they sure scored some nice tries too.

  • Comment 71, posted at 28.08.14 18:35:16 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 65) : I agree its all urban legend and myth,good for you for highlghting this nonsense

  • Comment 72, posted at 28.08.14 18:44:57 by benji Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 68) :

    I think the other day I posted stats for HM’s record against the top teams and it was slightly better than JW’s or PdV’s

    Didn’t you double check it?

  • Comment 73, posted at 28.08.14 22:45:21 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 70) : then he’s perfect forcthe Sharks!!! When is he moving to Durbs?!?!?!?!

  • Comment 74, posted at 29.08.14 00:29:34 by JD Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 65) : I agreed with Jake’s game plan in the Super 15 this year. It made sense to take a team that has struggled with ball in hand (as you say for years now even before Jake) to play a territory and pressure based game in a Super tournament. A Sharks team that tries to run every ball would have finished at the bottom of the log.

    However a plan based only on kicking will not win you a super trophy. Historically teams that win are always in the top three of the try scoring stats. The Sharks pressure game created opportunities but we just could not finish off most of those. An average of 17 turnovers conceded per match is not good enough to win the super tournament.

    However I was hoping to see some improvements in attacking play over time. Injuries to key players such as Pat and PSDT robbed us of our momentum and the bit of progress at the start of the season faded away quickly. Even the kicking game which was pretty good at the start deteriorated as the season progressed – culminating in the Crusaders completely out-kicking us in the semi.

    There is a time to kick and a time to run. The Sharks now kick (and mostly poorly) when they have no idea what else to do. I hardly see any thinking behind kicks – it is mostly hoofed straight down field.

    Perhaps the reason why many of us miss the good Doctor is that you could slowly see the team (actually squad) improving week by week. However it was Currie Cup level only – he would probably have had the same problems as Jake at Super level.

    Bottom line is I think the problems in Sharks rugby is going to take a lot of time and hard work to fix. I personally care rocks about our result in the Currie Cup this year – I would rather want us to fix our problems. I am getting pretty tired of watching mostly the same old same ever year with the occasional semi-decent performance thrown our way.

  • Comment 75, posted at 29.08.14 08:08:00 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 75) : very well put sir,I could not agree more,also these novice coaches ,if they are to be retained ,should be assured that results in the CC don’t matter but that solutions to fixing the problems in the Sharks play be implemented every game

  • Comment 76, posted at 29.08.14 08:33:46 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 76) : and that’s where the Great White should formulate a blue print of solutions for these novice coaches to implement at training and in games

  • Comment 77, posted at 29.08.14 08:36:12 by benji Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 75) :

    I think the Currie Cup coaches are trying to make a move away from, to be blunt, boring rugby. There’s now an article doing the rounds, again, where the Sharks coaches are insisting that they would like to play a “new” game, given that the players they have don’t even really allow for the the game we played during SR. The loose trio is just to small and the packs too potent to keep bashing it up in the Currie Cup.

    The problem really for me lies in the basic skills of the players. Look at the game against the Cheetahs and you will see the guys actually do create (much like they did during SR), they just don’t have good basic skills or in some instances calm needed to finish those opportunities.

    Paul Jordaan goes to ground and loses possesion much too often, that is if he managed to get into the tackle without making a poor pass, or losing the ball even before that point. Sithole’s recless pass against the Cheetahs, when he could have secured another phase and kept the pressure on is another example.

    Our guys are able to run into spaces and beat the opposition, but only when they are able to execute their basic skills properly.

    Too many passes are going in behind players when the ball is moved between the backline and too many basic errors are being made… blame the coaches for trying an expansive game before drilling some proper basic skills into these highly paid “professional” players.

    Last week there were plenty of exiting moments (fluffed) in the first half, the second half we definitely more boring than the first, but again, more effective.

    I’d make these guys do so many hours of basic skills training they’ll get sick of it.

    …Then we can look at working on an expansive based game plan.

  • Comment 78, posted at 29.08.14 08:38:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 77) : he did it at the Brumbies ,I don’t see why he can’t do the same at the Sharks

  • Comment 79, posted at 29.08.14 08:39:06 by benji Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 78) : Eish,also very well put sir,I agree,but you need a proper backline coach for this,also to stop the habit of running or drfting sideways and run straight lines,attacking the gain line all the time

  • Comment 80, posted at 29.08.14 08:44:57 by benji Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 78) : Letgo, do you still have the link to that article? Would like to read it.

  • Comment 81, posted at 29.08.14 09:15:23 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 73) : I saw the post and commented on the disingenuity of it. I never double checked it as you werent comparing like with like to start with. I never checked back in to see if you updated your comment.

  • Comment 82, posted at 29.08.14 09:18:29 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 74) : :lol:

  • Comment 83, posted at 29.08.14 09:26:44 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 70) : Maybe its because of the defence @ all costs which takes its toll on front rankers especially,1st choice tight5 was injured for [email protected]Letgo (Comment 65) : The difference with [email protected] the Brumbies is the type of players chosen in certain positions, a natural fH was chosen as 1st choice12 and there was rotation in the front row with Scott Sio given gametime and Loosies like Fa’ainga started some games ahead of more physical loosies to disrupt the opposition.So the problem might be that JW doesn’t trust SA players to play smartly and vary their play :?:

  • Comment 84, posted at 29.08.14 09:54:38 by Chippa Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 81) :

    http://www.supersport.com/rugby/currie-cup/news/140828/Pressure_on_Sharks_to_make_transition

  • Comment 85, posted at 29.08.14 10:47:41 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 82) : @fyndraai (Comment 73) :

    When you do comparisons, you need to remember what HM took over and what JW took over. The team JW took over was the staaldraad team that couldn’t even make it past the quarterfinals in the world cup. He won Tri-Nations in his first year – something most SA coaches and teams can’t say and convincingly won the world cup, his “team” went on to perform even after he left. The core he built up still remains till today.

    HM took over from Pdiv, yes, but it was a team that was poised to make it to the final and give NZ a go, had it not been for BL… a strong team and what has he done so far, a number of wins against Aus, and no wins against NZ?

    I’m not impressed by a long shot… at least PDiv were entertaining.

  • Comment 86, posted at 29.08.14 10:55:32 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 85) : Thanks!

  • Comment 87, posted at 29.08.14 11:34:23 by vanmartin Reply
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