robdylan

Sharks player ratings v Pumas


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks on 1 Sep 2014 at 10:08
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It’s sad to admit, but the Sharks appear to be getting worse with each outing this season, which is really the opposite of what we’re hoping to see.
Friday’s performance in Nelspruit was embarrassing and barely warrants much more than a 4/10 for the team.

1) Dale Chadwick. Perhaps the only player out of 22 to actually enhance his own reputation. Chadwick played very well and stood out against an admittedly very low standard set by his team mates. Scrum work was good as always and his work rate on defence and in the tight loose remained high. 7/10
2) Kyle Cooper. A strong, bustling performance that might have earned a better rating had it not been for some bad lineout misses on attack. One does need to acknowledge that the Sharks had already lost three key forwards by this stage, making Cooper’s job that much harder. 6/10
3) Matt Stevens. Showed none of the verve that we saw during his good cameo against the same opposition a fortnight back. Stevens held his own at scrumtime but was anonymous in other facets, apart from giving away a few penalties. 4/10
4) Etienne Oosthuizen. Conspicious only by his absence, I’m afraid. 4/10
5) JC Astle. Only lasted 20 minutes, but looked reasonable while on the field. Nothing to write home about really, but took a few lineout balls and seemed generally “awake”. 5/10
6) Jacques Botes. One feels the magnitude of the 150th cap got to him a little. He was anonymous on the day and as one of only two really experienced Currie Cup players, we simply cannot afford for him to go missing like that. 4/10
7) Francois Kleinhans. The square peg in a round hole at blind side flank – his game was cut short by injury after just 6 minutes.
8) Tera Mtembu. Massive, massive work rate on defence and appeared a cut above the rest. In fact, scoreline aside, Tera was clearly the most impressive player on the field in the first half. We need to weigh him up as captain, though and on this occasion, with his troops imploding around him, Tera didn’t unfortunately do enough to right the ship. 7/10

9) Conrad Hoffmann. Option taking and execution were both nothing but appalling. I tried to count the number of times Hoffmann gave away possession via poor box kicks but ran out of fingers. 4/10
10) Fred Zeilinga. A shadow of the player that set the Currie Cup alight just 12 months ago. Fred appears caught in no man’s land and doesn’t seem to know how he’s meant to be playing. Alternated between pointless kicks and running into blind alleys, with only a star turn in front of posts edging his rating up slightly. 4/10
11) Tonderai Chavhanga. Again looked just half a step quicker and half a notch classier than those around him, not that it was hard on a poor day for the team. 6/10
12) Paul Jordaan. Can’t catch, can’t pass, can only run in a straight line…. surely we can find something more constructive to do with him? And somebody who can contribute more in this key attacking position? 3/10
13) S’bura Sithole. He’s not getting enough ball – and in order to compensate is trying too hard to force things when he does. Still a very good talent, but this thoroughbred is looking like a donkey in a backline that’s not managing to use him well enough. 4/10
14) Odwa Ndungane. Another veteran who, when needed to stand up, rather opted to sit down. We know that Odwa is perhaps lacking a yard or two now, but the way in which Rosco Speckmann rounded him again and again was frankly sickening. 3/10
15) SP Marais. Another game in which poor option taking and particularly atrocious kick execution kept his team on the back foot, all game long. Something had to give – this player is so far from form he couldn’t find it with map and compass and it’s not doing him, or the team, any favours to continue to pick him. 3/10

16) Franco Marais. Forced to play flank for half an hour, Marais was anonymous. I don’t recall seeing him once. 4/10
17) Lourens Adriaanse. Held up his end at scrumtime but disappeared otherwise. 5/10
18) Stephan Lewies. Appeared to lack a bit of fitness, but did a reasonable enough job of shoring up a pack that was creaking when he came on. 5/10
19) Johan Meyer. Appears hesitant and uncertain at this level still. A poor first half was countered somewhat by a better performance in the second half. Needs to protect the ball better in contact. 5/10
20) Cameron Wright. Wasn’t noticeably better than Hoffmann, which really wasn’t a big ask on the day. 5/10
21) Heimar Williams. Not on long enough to rate.
22) Lionel Cronje. Not on long enough to rate.



104 Comments

  • Wow! :shock:

  • Comment 1, posted at 01.09.14 10:20:01 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 1) :

    …but I agree.

  • Comment 2, posted at 01.09.14 10:20:21 by Letgo Reply
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  • eish

  • Comment 3, posted at 01.09.14 10:26:29 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • Didnt watch, so cant comment, but the result surely justifies this rating for the team performance.

    Just one thing though:
    “I tried to count the number of times Hoffmann gave away possession via poor box kicks but ran out of fingers.”

    Does this mean that you can only count to 10??? :shock: :twisted:

  • Comment 4, posted at 01.09.14 10:29:18 by Big Fish Reply
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  • I like the fact that we tried to run more but there was still a lot of aimless kicking!! :evil:

    Any news on Astle, Oosthuizen and possible replacements if they’re not fit for the weekend??

    van Tonder has to start now!! How did Esterhuizen do at flank on the weekend? Maybe he and Williams should be getting a run at 12 for the senior side. Paul Jordaan is wasted at 12 and must shift to wing or fullback.

  • Comment 5, posted at 01.09.14 10:29:48 by ChrisS Reply
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    ChrisSSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 4) : :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 6, posted at 01.09.14 10:30:16 by ChrisS Reply
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  • Rob – you seem to be in a pretty generous mood this Monday morning.

  • Comment 7, posted at 01.09.14 10:33:11 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Still too kind on the ratings Rob……….

    Hoffman -2
    Fred 2
    Jordaan -1, replace this man with Andre Esterhuizen……played centre for the second half on Saturday against the Leopards and had a blinder agains a very tough Leopards side that led most of the game. He was actually the difference when moving to centre.
    Sithole 2
    Odwa 1
    Tonderai 3
    Sp Marais -18 his contract must be torn up……

  • Comment 8, posted at 01.09.14 10:34:04 by Lieplapper Reply

    LieplapperVodacom Cup player
     
  • Why are our coaches so blind?

  • Comment 9, posted at 01.09.14 10:35:35 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @ChrisS (Comment 5) :

    Watched Andre’s game on Saturday, at flank he looks like a lost fart, doesn’t know the positional play at all. But still had a few monster tackles.

    Second half moved him to centre and he destroyed the midfield…..he was great. Actually he sparked the comeback for the u21. Tough as nails and ran as straight as an arrow…….one could clearly see that where he wants to play.

    Give him a chance, dopping or not.

  • Comment 10, posted at 01.09.14 10:38:14 by Lieplapper Reply

    LieplapperVodacom Cup player
     
  • And the ref? Somewhere between 3 or 4 I guess.. Yes we were horrible, but it also doesn’t help when the ref clearly favours the underdogs… :x

  • Comment 11, posted at 01.09.14 10:38:48 by Another Nick Reply

    Another NickSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Lieplapper (Comment 8) :

    Did you watch the game? I would love to see Esterhuizen get a shot. He’s move to 7 is really strange to me, he seems like a clone (in size) to Frans Steyn. If he has shortcomings for this position, surely the coaches should be working on these, not just be shifting him to another position … and if we have shortcomings in a position, surely we should look to players already playing in this position?

  • Comment 12, posted at 01.09.14 10:41:24 by Letgo Reply
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  • I blame all our poor performances on our Director Of Soccer.
    I think our players’ 1st instinct is to run everything but then JW’s voice echos in there head “kick it” and thus the confusion and poor execution.

  • Comment 13, posted at 01.09.14 10:43:49 by JarsonX Reply
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  • Fear not fellow fans! I have found a saying that should make everyone feel better for no apparent reason: the darkest hour is before the dawn.

    You’re all very welcome.

  • Comment 14, posted at 01.09.14 10:44:59 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Lieplapper (Comment 10) :

    I agree. Just give him a full game and see what he can do.

    Although Jordaan looked decent at 12 in Super Rugby (granted, this was next to Frans Steyn – an inside center), he really have looked clueless this CC, in every single game.

    Heimar is definitely another option at 12, but he also seems more like the safe option. Whereas imo, from the little I’ve seen of Esterhuizen, I feel like he could be something special.

    I really thought he and Swiel, Fisher would have already been given a run this CC.

  • Comment 15, posted at 01.09.14 10:45:17 by Letgo Reply
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  • odwa deserves a 0 in my honest opinion

  • Comment 16, posted at 01.09.14 10:48:17 by Poisy Reply
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    PoisyTeam captain
     
  • Well considering that the Cheetahs had two retreaded flanks as locks, there simply is no excuse for Cooper to stutter at lineout time. This seems to be endemic in the Sharks setup, as Bissy’s line out work is also patchy at best

  • Comment 17, posted at 01.09.14 10:52:20 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 15) : jordaan needs to be dropped completely perhaps he just needs a break. so does sp it just looks like he is carrying the world on his shoulders. sbura needs to play wing or inside centre. and frankly tera need to show some on field captaincy and huddle the guys and actually speak all i see is the other forwards talking but nothing from him.

  • Comment 18, posted at 01.09.14 10:52:28 by Poisy Reply
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  • I honestly don’t think all blame lies with the players and I’d be hesitant to introduce a swathe of youngsters in the hopes of a different outcome. Would probably do way more harm than good. There is a evident coaching issue at play here too. I’m guessing there’s a lack of clear directive on how to actually play.

  • Comment 19, posted at 01.09.14 10:52:28 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 19) : dont get me started on the coaches! even our junior teams are playing shit surely it cant all be the players at every level. i dont know how they did last week though so hopefully they won

  • Comment 20, posted at 01.09.14 10:54:54 by Poisy Reply
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    PoisyTeam captain
     
  • Email this article and the match report to JS and let him enlarge it and stick to the wall of the change room, they should be reminded of this dire performance for the entire CC!! These oakes need to catch a wake up now :x :evil:

  • Comment 21, posted at 01.09.14 10:57:04 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

    RedSharkUtd82Super Rugby player
     
  • I wouldnt blame Jake White. It must be remembered that he never got to pick his own assistants. We mustnt underestimate what a massive handicap that is. Remember his assistants (our current coaches) were all coaching high school the other day. One of them was coaching a team that now refuses to play Glenwood

  • Comment 22, posted at 01.09.14 11:05:47 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 22) : Only our head Currie Cup coach.

    We got Anthony from the Bulls and Sean Everitt has been coaching at Vodacom Cup level for the Sharks for a few years now.

  • Comment 23, posted at 01.09.14 11:08:41 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Time to see what Williams and Esterhuizen have to offer at 12.

    While I realize we needed a cover for Ludik when he left, Marias has been abysmal. What really gets my goat up is seeing Jessie Kriel playing good Rugby for the Bulls, a Durban boy…

  • Comment 24, posted at 01.09.14 11:19:21 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 19) : Yup. Can’t quite work out if this is a hangover from the SR gameplan but a lot of stuff does seem to be forced. Very few plays look comfortable.

    Personally I think we will only start to come right at the end of the CC. Remember how bad WP played when they decided to become a more attacking team?

  • Comment 25, posted at 01.09.14 11:20:23 by gregkaos Reply
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  • Tghis result has been coming for some time. The Sharks were really poor against a decent but by no means outstanding Pumas side. Our pathetic defense also allowed them a lot of freedom. I do think this loss and perhaps a couple more will actually be good as it will force the coaches etc to change things as nobody will change anything when u winning, even if winning ugly.

  • Comment 26, posted at 01.09.14 11:23:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • All of a sudden the most exciting centre pair we’ve had in years is awful. You cant play rugby on the back foot. With nearly 40% territory and posession and losing nearly half our own lineouts you’ve given the backs the blame. Pretty easy to pick up a paycheck if you’re a big lad, just follow the ball around and hit a ruck every now and then… you’ll get a better rating than someone forced to make something happen with little momentum and few opportunities.

  • Comment 27, posted at 01.09.14 11:31:17 by soutie Reply

    soutieUnder 21 player
     
  • @soutie (Comment 27) : Possession is one thing, but the back 3 and flyhalf have the responsibility of acquiring territorial dominance.

  • Comment 28, posted at 01.09.14 11:38:01 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • @soutie (Comment 27) : And it is such a feeble and overused excuse. Why should your scrum dictate the way you conduct play? Did you see WP forwards last week? Their backs pulled them through that match…

  • Comment 29, posted at 01.09.14 11:48:21 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • S’bura at 12?

  • Comment 30, posted at 01.09.14 11:49:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • I swear I am going to blow a gasket if I have to see SP do that stupid little jig of his before he takes contact.

  • Comment 31, posted at 01.09.14 11:51:53 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 22) : Ja, apparently Glenwoods approach to schools rugby is “too professional” and this is from the toffs that employed BMH for R1 000 000 per annum. Funny bunch that live in the clouds around worlds view.

  • Comment 32, posted at 01.09.14 11:58:09 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) : I would like to see Heimar at 12 and either S’bu or Jordaan at 13.

  • Comment 33, posted at 01.09.14 11:58:19 by Another Nick Reply

    Another NickSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Talent (Comment 24) :Agree, but Kriel wouldnt make our present starting line up – just saying.

  • Comment 34, posted at 01.09.14 12:00:01 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) : Feel Heimar and Andre reslly first deserve an oppertunity at 12 before we play S’bura out of position at 12 ;-)
    And I am really glad work made me miss the game!

  • Comment 35, posted at 01.09.14 12:10:47 by HeinF Reply

    HeinFTeam captain
     
  • @HeinF (Comment 35) : yes and before some Einstein turns Andre E into a fking flank. Did you hear about that one??

  • Comment 36, posted at 01.09.14 12:13:52 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @HeinF (Comment 35) : For Saturday I would like to see our backline as follows: 9 Hoffman, 10 Zeilinga, 11 Tondi, 12 Heimar/Andre 13 S’bu/Jordaan, 14 Odwa, 15 Van Tonder. Then I would have a little more faith restored.

  • Comment 37, posted at 01.09.14 12:16:13 by Another Nick Reply

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  • Odwa to 15, Sbura to wing, Jordaan one up and Williams or Esterhuizen (not likely) to 12.

  • Comment 38, posted at 01.09.14 12:17:17 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • When you play with 43% possession, and kick 28 times (23 of those kicks were simply turn over possession), you can expect to tackle a lot (84 against Pumas 50).

    This, while your success at crossing the advantage line with ball in hand is 46% (which is bloody good btw.)

  • Comment 39, posted at 01.09.14 12:28:34 by Morné Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment31) : I’ve never ever,I think SP is absolutely great,he provides a dance and a dazed and amazed routine,by a single player and sometimes both routines at the same time,pure master class

  • Comment 40, posted at 01.09.14 12:33:03 by benji Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 22) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 32) :I think these novice coaches are being exposed the longer the CC continues,they clueless,no game plan,no tic tacs,and this reflects in the players ,just look at Fred Z,not sure what to do , its time for sentiment to go and to say bye bye

  • Comment 41, posted at 01.09.14 12:37:40 by benji Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 12) :
    Jip, watched the U19 and U 21, and I am not a friend or related to him, he is just pure talent.
    To be very honest not one player of the Sharks U 21 team stood out or stuck up their hand. Untill Andre moved to centre, he jumped up. He will make mistakes, he will have handling errors but stick it out for 2 or 3 games.
    He just needs a mentor, give him Botes to keep him on the straight and narrow.

  • Comment 42, posted at 01.09.14 12:47:41 by Lieplapper Reply

    LieplapperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @benji (Comment 40) : He just irritate me so damn much. He has the same sour face as Ruan Pienaar.

  • Comment 43, posted at 01.09.14 12:49:18 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @Lieplapper (Comment 10) : Ditto, Andre was exceptional when he played centre on Saturday. He was the best centre in the country u20 why waste him at flank

  • Comment 44, posted at 01.09.14 12:49:36 by FS Shark Reply

    FS SharkUnder 19 player
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 31) :I agree with you.

    Comment edited: admin

  • Comment 45, posted at 01.09.14 12:50:07 by Lieplapper Reply

    LieplapperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @FS Shark (Comment 44) : My point exactly…….

  • Comment 46, posted at 01.09.14 12:51:07 by Lieplapper Reply

    LieplapperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 15) : Are these the same guys setting the u21 tournament alight?
    The U21′s have won 2 out of 6 this year and managed to beat a Leopards side on the weekend that have only won one out of seven – hardy a basis for assuming any of them are going to make a difference at Currie Cup level – Esterhuizen included.
    The backs looked clueless on Friday and 9, 10 and 12 completely out of their depth. Sithole is a wing playing 13 and coping reasonably well – he is not a 12 and frankly neither is Jordaan so perhaps Esterhuizen can’t do worse. Personally I’d go with a specialist 12 like Williams and play Jordaan and/or Sithole outside him at 13 and on the wing. It will all be futile though if the problem at 9 and 10 isn’t fixed and I’m not sure what the options are there.

  • Comment 47, posted at 01.09.14 12:57:25 by steve Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 36) : Yes,it’s ridiculous. The guy played for SA u20 just this year at 12 and only a few months later we want to try and turn one of our most exciting prospects into an less than average flank…I really can’t get behind that type of logic!

  • Comment 48, posted at 01.09.14 13:04:36 by HeinF Reply

    HeinFTeam captain
     
  • @Another Nick (Comment 37) : Yes, couldn’t agree more. This is the CC where they should experiment and blood new players. Let’s be honest, the way we are playing, we will probably make the semis, but there is no way we can we the trophy, so start backing new guys! We really have nothing to loose and some of those guys really deserve an opportunity, they have been playing descent rugby and the guys ahead of them not so much

  • Comment 49, posted at 01.09.14 13:07:24 by HeinF Reply

    HeinFTeam captain
     
  • SP is bloody awful at the moment, but there is no need to descend to gutter-level insults.

  • Comment 50, posted at 01.09.14 13:20:29 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @steve (Comment 47) :

    It’s only 3 of the u/21′s that’s struggling.

    I haven’t seen Tyler Fisher play much, Esterhuizen I saw during /21 world cup and Swiel … I just want to see if he was a wasted buy and whether we should have hung on to De Preeze.

  • Comment 51, posted at 01.09.14 13:24:12 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Lieplapper (Comment 45) : @KingRiaan (Comment 43) : what I find even more amazing than his two routines is the fact that he makes it onto the field,week in ,week out

  • Comment 52, posted at 01.09.14 13:24:39 by benji Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 50) :

    Agreed.

    SP had potential. I don’t know what happened, but I can’t see the use of just hanging on to him. Work on him away from CC and only bring him back when he seems ready again.

    Surely the errors he is making isn’t just happening on the field, or does he really have such a bad temperament that he executes on training day and fails on match day.

    He and Mvovo is our only 15′s for SR. I have nothing against the guy and want him to turn his season around, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of another player that could do better than he is, if given the chance to play.

  • Comment 53, posted at 01.09.14 13:28:36 by Letgo Reply
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  • I hate that we have descended to the level of making fun of our players, but they need to flippen wake up. How much of this crap do us fans have to endure? we have a boring ass gameplan that is not yielding any decent results. If we were in the same pool as WP and the Lions, then we would have been way down on the log now. This is because of shitty coaching and lack of effort and commitment from some of our main players. You can see in some one like Tondie’s performances if they are dedicated or not, it is one of the reasons why he has been one of, if not our best performer so far. And I am getting real gatvol of watching the mediocre performance from the team I hold so dear week in and week out. And it is frustrating not even being able to relay our frustrations and the fact that we are pissed off beyond words to the powers that be.

  • Comment 54, posted at 01.09.14 13:37:44 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @JarsonX (Comment 13) : Spot on

  • Comment 55, posted at 01.09.14 13:42:54 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 50) : Hear, hear.

  • Comment 56, posted at 01.09.14 13:44:08 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Have said from day one that Jordaan is not a centre, he is physically not up to it. Fruen and Read have proved that by running through him with ease. He is a good player but should be played on the wing.

    He certainly does not have the finesse required at 12.

    The Sharks should play Esterhuizen at 12 with Sithole at 13 and bring on impressive Tyler Fisher off the bench at 13.

    Swiel should replace Fred at 10, who is average

  • Comment 57, posted at 01.09.14 13:53:38 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Saffex (Comment 57) : Clearly you haven’t watched Swiel play of late, he was woeful against the Cheetahs u/21′s

  • Comment 58, posted at 01.09.14 14:06:51 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Saffex (Comment 57) : Hell no…leave Swiel exactly where he is. Infact return to [email protected]benji (Comment 52) : Agreed, surely Marais will get dropped this week by BMH and Everitt,? Or maybe not….. They wanted him to come from the Kings, they need to make him work now by hook or by crook. Best of all was his celebration when he scored on Friday, we are so far behind but he acts like he scored the winning try in the World Cup final. My word, only out for self gain….screw the team.

    Get Sylvian Mahuza from the Leopards, was the backline player of the Varsity Cup as well. That oak can play.

  • Comment 59, posted at 01.09.14 14:07:25 by Lieplapper Reply

    LieplapperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Lieplapper (Comment 59) : I saw that celebration as one of relief from a chap that has been having a hard time of it lately (and is very aware that fact) and somehow now feels that the wheel is finally starting to turn for him.

  • Comment 60, posted at 01.09.14 14:23:37 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 58) : Playing out of position at 15……he is too small for 15

  • Comment 61, posted at 01.09.14 14:31:23 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Saffex (Comment 61) : And just how, pray tell, is someone who is “too small for 15″ going to cope at 10, where the traffic is that much heavier, and the tackling demands significantly higher?

  • Comment 62, posted at 01.09.14 15:09:18 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 39) : Only 23 out of 28 kicks turned over possession – felt to me like every kick was stupid?

    But yes – therein lies the problem with the Sharks. This “I have no idea what to do next – let me hoof it straight to the opposition” attitude needs to stop. Intelligent kicking adds a lot to a team, but that is not what the Sharks are currently doing.

    It is not going to help chucking out players – the new ones will shortly have the same attitude.

  • Comment 63, posted at 01.09.14 15:58:18 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Lieplapper(comment59) Now what do you say about Giant Mtyanda’s celebration of his try? @Salmonoid the Subtle; think I want to agree with you. After all, it was the only try for the Sharks… Quite a number of youngsters in the team that are inexperience at this level. Just like the Bulls last year. The fact that the O/19′s and 0/21′s not faring well in the competition is more worrying….

  • Comment 64, posted at 01.09.14 16:00:19 by Coco Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • The idea that someone should replace Jordaan based on form is quite daft. He has been in the team of the week 3 weeks in a row and had an excellent Super rugby campaign. The only reason Heimar should get game time is because there needs to be some rotation to develop some players and rest others.

  • Comment 65, posted at 01.09.14 16:11:36 by soutie Reply

    soutieUnder 21 player
     
  • I’m trying to hold my tongue… :mrgreen: :razz:

  • Comment 66, posted at 01.09.14 16:23:09 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 62) : For the same reason the likes of Cruden, Lambie, Goosen, Barritt, Ford, Beale, Michalack, Tren Duc etc are able to comfortably operate at 10………for in reality 10′s are hardly ever left to fend that channel alone whereas a 15 is left exposed at the back and requires some physicality to impose himself on the counter

  • Comment 67, posted at 01.09.14 16:39:22 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Lieplapper (Comment 8) : Great to hear the lad is showing what he’s made off and performing at 12 if given a chance!!!

  • Comment 68, posted at 01.09.14 16:54:05 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 30) : no Heimar!!!!!!! Play a inside centre at 12!!!!!!

  • Comment 69, posted at 01.09.14 17:09:02 by JD Reply
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  • @Saffex (Comment 57) : Your mom hasnt been taping all the games, eh? Swiel better than Zeilinga? :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 70, posted at 01.09.14 17:13:35 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Saffex (Comment 67) : I’m going to have to beg to differ; the very reason Goosen had not been able to convert his potential into any meaningful achievement has been due to his body’s inability to handle the knocks that has come his way at 10. I don’t watch enough rugby to comment meaningfully on the complete list of players that you mention, but certainly Lambie and Cruden don’t shy away from tackles, whereas Swiel’s preferred tackle technique can best be described as “if I hide behind mom’s skirt long enough, I’m sure a loosie will make this tackle for me”. If Swiel can’t hack it at 15, I honestly can’t see him making it as a 10

  • Comment 71, posted at 01.09.14 17:44:24 by Culling Song Reply
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  • guys, let’s cut the personal attacks, please.

    I’m sure none of the players are either picking themselves or playing badly on purpose. Criticise their actions on the field by all means, but let’s leave the person out of it.

  • Comment 72, posted at 01.09.14 18:23:30 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 72) : Amen Rob, people should seriously think before they post personsal attacks on players etc

  • Comment 73, posted at 01.09.14 18:41:49 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 72) : Thanks Rob!

  • Comment 74, posted at 01.09.14 18:43:36 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 72) : yes Rob but they not doing it for free now are they,in fact the exact opposite,also if in a slump and not performing, they can purposely fix themselves and perform properly by spending the extra long hard hours like as a true professional would to fix the problems,if not its down to simple kak work ethic which does go to the very character of a man,so how does one then critisise a player who does not perform,its simple you accept money and don’t perform you are open to all Criticism,and in fact should also be booted

  • Comment 75, posted at 01.09.14 20:30:16 by benji Reply
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  • geez what i’d give to have a 4 and a 7 give us an eight this weekend.

  • Comment 76, posted at 01.09.14 20:36:42 by byron Reply

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  • @benji (Comment 75) : Big difference between criticism and personal attacks though. It’s the latter we should steer clear of.

  • Comment 77, posted at 01.09.14 21:18:30 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Didn’t watch, not very surprised by the result, but would say that for the Sharks to lose to the Pumas at Currie Cup level (any level in fact) deserves a team rating of 2 or 3 at best.

    Unacceptable, really.

  • Comment 78, posted at 01.09.14 21:53:30 by Feather Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @benji (Comment 75) :
    I’d hate to work for you.

  • Comment 79, posted at 01.09.14 23:11:23 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Give Tim a chance at 15.

  • Comment 80, posted at 02.09.14 00:36:18 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @benji (Comment 75) :

    Really? I would just apologize for taking it too far and move on. Same thing happened with Dale Chadwick a while back. We have a way of belittling players when they aren’t playing well. I rather feel sorry for SP who seemed like he had something special when we picked him up from the Kings. Surely the Sharks coaches are just hoping to unearth some of the talent that they feel he still has.

    I for one hope (and have been hoping), that he pulls it together.

    In the mean time, I still think he should be dropped to the bench for Van Tonder, Swiel or Jordaan.

  • Comment 81, posted at 02.09.14 07:48:17 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 71) : I don’t buy into this theory that Goosen’s body can’t handle the rigours of rugby! That is just plain ignorant. So by that analogy Duanne Vermeulen should be tarred with the same brush! I know the guy, and he has had like 4 serious knee injuries. Fact is, if your arm is fully stretched out to score, and somebody falls on your shoulder its gonna pop. I don’t care if you are Hercules, the body wasn’t designed to take such a knock. Ditto a knee going at an unnatural angle!! This whole he isn’t physical enough is BS! But if somebody is just scared to get involved its different!

    Goosen has been flying into rucks etc, he certainly isn’t scared.

    In his 1st Super Rugby season as a 19 year old he was the leading points scorer after 8 continuous Super rugby matches. If you can handle that please explain to me how hat translates into not being physical enough! Pffffttt

  • Comment 82, posted at 02.09.14 10:04:06 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 77) : let’s try to make this plain for the likes of Benji, who don’t seem to understand grey.

    Benji, SP Marais and members of his family have read your comments (and those of others) and are rather upset about the disproportionate level of hatred shown by people who claim to be fans of the team.

    Does that really make you feel good? Still quite so indignantly “right” and convinced that what you are doing here is good, helpful and necessary?

  • Comment 83, posted at 02.09.14 10:12:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 70) : Swiel is far better than average Fred

  • Comment 84, posted at 02.09.14 13:37:30 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 71) : Disagree given Goosen was fine physically for the S15 and has hardly failed to convert his potential. He had a solid enough season and had Meyer had any credibility, would have invested in him at test level instead of the bog ordinary Morne Steyn

  • Comment 85, posted at 02.09.14 13:39:51 by Saffex Reply

    SaffexCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Saffex (Comment 85) : He did, but unfortunately hardly gave young Goosen enough time to recover. He had hardly played two halves of CC action when meyer had him on the bench vs Aus, and starting vs the AB’s. He di very well before doing his knee.

  • Comment 86, posted at 02.09.14 13:55:00 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 86) :

    I don’t think Goosen isn’t physical enough, I think he is very unlucky with injuries. Much like Jean de Villiers for World Cups.

    It has to be said though, that some players are more prone to injuries, which be the question, are these players not taking proper care when taking contact or not insuring strength in the right areas of their body or are they simply and solely unlucky.

    I think more than one aspect comes into play here, Goosen might not get injured (or seriously injured) for the rest of his career, but who’d bet on that scenario. He is prone to injury, much like Andre Pretorius and others before him have been.

  • Comment 87, posted at 02.09.14 14:26:00 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : ja sorry if I’m one of the people and I would like to apologise to him and his family if so. Thing is by the coaches carrying on picking him whilst he is clearly not in the form he showed last year will unfortunately not help the poor guy.

  • Comment 88, posted at 02.09.14 14:57:28 by JD Reply
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  • Andre Pretorius was prone to pulling hamstrings, and that indicates a problem with his conditioning, or a physical impairment that caused it. Goosen’s style of play was always likely to get him injured. You don’t prevent injuries like that. As I said before, its the luck of the draw, Vermeulen was on the cusp of selection to the boks for 5 years, and every time did his knee. Now he is a machine,. He hasn’t changed his style of play in any way.
    I agree he has been unlucky. No conditioning or strength training will prevent a shoulder from popping when it is hyper extended, and somebody falls on it. None at all. So if it was torn muscles he was suffering from I would agree.

  • Comment 89, posted at 02.09.14 15:06:19 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 89) : I personally think
    1. players at school level has way to much pressure to perform and some will go the illegal route to get an edge
    2. certain top players are overplayed at provincial and Bok level with neither coaching structures will to give them a break
    3. injured players don’t get enough time to rest and they’re rushed back before they’re 100% fit and ready.
    With rugby being a professional sport I do not see this changing and the only people who suffers will be the players.

  • Comment 90, posted at 02.09.14 16:14:05 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : now Rob ‘hate’ is a strong word.I don’t think anyone and certainly not me ‘hate’sP or any other player.also mocking a player does not make one less of a fan ,as a paid player mocking comes with the territory so just deal with it and learn from it and take the positive out of it as the only person who can fix this is the player himself,go spend t

  • Comment 91, posted at 02.09.14 22:43:25 by benji Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : Now Rob ‘hate’ is a strong word,I don’t think anyone and certainly not me’hate SP or any other payer,critisiing a player does not make one any less of a fan and in fact critisism is part and parcel of being a paid player so take heed of the critisism ,take the positive out of it!deal with it and go and fix the problem as the player at the end of the day is the only one who can fix himself even if it means spending long hard hours over contract time in fixing and it will come right but crying about being critisised fixes nothing

  • Comment 92, posted at 02.09.14 22:52:51 by benji Reply
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  • In the debate above, I am noticing that no one is really taking into account that “form” is something that a player does not necessarily have complete control over. A professional player has the responsibility to do everything in his power to make sure that he is well prepared for matches, works at problem areas, maintains fitness and conditioning, etc. … and clearly those things can have a positive or negative impact on form. But form is also more than that and it can and does fluctuate based on more than just the factors we control. In my experience on the coaching field in rugby and cricket, the best way to deal with form dips is:
    1. To play through it and persevere…the turn in form will come…
    2. To encourage a player you believe in…the mental and confidence side in something like this is big…
    3. To get him to keep working hard on what he can control…
    I’m not against keeping faith in SP. He showed us the talent he has last year. Given that this Currie Cup should have more modest targets for us all, including player development, I vote that the Sharks should use it to give SP a chance to play through the form dip. He scored a good try on Friday and I thought his celebration (even that was critisized here) was entirely appropriate for a player who had just put his team in the lead and had scored a good try after a tough time of late…

  • Comment 93, posted at 03.09.14 10:24:33 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I had a chat to Jake White once about game plans…and what he said then (at the time he was Springbok coach) should probably also be taken into account by all of us: it is very difficult to truly change game plans – it is not as easy as flicking a switch. It takes time to put the pieces of a rugby game plan into place and to get everybody to feel confident in the game plan and to know their role in it. I know everybody has been very critical of how mich we habe been kicking. I have seen something different in this Currie Cup so far. Yes, we’ve still done some aweful kicking (who can forget those 7 consecutive kicks against the Cheetahs…argh!!), but we have also run from deep, pulled some wonderful moves and looked to try things. Our finishing hasn’t been great, we’ve butchered many opportunities and sometimes it even looks as if we’re running and passing for the sake of running and passing…but it seems to me we’re working on it. Let the guys keep working on it and let’s see what happens..m

  • Comment 94, posted at 03.09.14 10:37:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 94) : How difficult is it to get a scrumhalf to cut down on the number of box kicks, and secondly to change the distance on his box kick so that it actually can be contested by a chaser?

  • Comment 95, posted at 03.09.14 10:52:38 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 95) : I’m not arguing that our box kicks haven’t been absolutely rubbish. I am saying that we have already made changes to our game plan…I am saying that the fruits of those changes have not been evident yet (and that I think they will be evident at some point…hopefully soon!)…and I am saying that very few of us seem to have recognised that we are running with the ball more, although our execution is still not good enough. Personally, I think box kicks have to be part of any game plan…I think we should kick less from the base than we are (one kick by Hoffmann on Friday with seconds remaining in the half was so pointless it had me tearing out what little hair I have!)…and I think that we are trying things and when it is not working we revert to a pointless kick, because we do not have confidence in something we’re trying but are not accurate and effective at yet…we’ll see…

  • Comment 96, posted at 03.09.14 11:05:49 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 96) : Therein lies the problem; aimless kicking.

    Our players need to be able to think two or three kicking plays ahead, instead they tend to either kick and hope(as they are under pressure) or over kick the ball. There is no manipulation of the opposition back three.

    I’m also not sure our defensive work in between kicks is always that good.

  • Comment 97, posted at 03.09.14 11:44:00 by Talent Reply
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    TalentCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Talent (Comment 97) : I think we need some shock therapy to teach the players to kick judiciously. I would start by forbidding any kicking outside of your 22 for a couple of games. Then I would reintroduce limited kicking but measure the result of each kick after the game to see if it had a nett positive or negative effect.

  • Comment 98, posted at 03.09.14 14:33:42 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 98) : I agree with the idea of shock therapy; like I said on another thread, I would like to see Hugh Reece-Edwards employed as kicking consultant… with the sole task of administering a boot to the groin of every player responsible for executing a senseless kick on the field of play. Of course, that might result in Conrad Hoffman wearing his ‘nads as earrings, but hey, its a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

  • Comment 99, posted at 03.09.14 14:51:49 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 99) : He he

  • Comment 100, posted at 03.09.14 14:56:36 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • The problem is if the player accepts the praise when he shines he must take the kak when he doesn’t,a forum like this is hopefully set up for the average layman to voice his opinion.
    Thats what keeps the game alive between games.
    If the player and his family read it they must expect all opinions.
    Marais is never going to be Willie le Roux,or Smith ,or Christian Cullen,or Andre Joubert,he is not even going to be a Louis Ludik or a Jesse Kriel.

  • Comment 101, posted at 03.09.14 15:14:34 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 101) : You are probably right, but I guess he is a lot better than all of us wannabe’s ever were or will be.

  • Comment 102, posted at 03.09.14 16:36:26 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 101) : Of course how you say something is almost always at least as important as what you say…

  • Comment 103, posted at 03.09.14 16:38:36 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 102) : but them again none of us is trying to play for the Sharks. It’s a difficult thing to be critical of a players performance without getting personal or abusive and players must learn that supporters does not mean it as a personal attack when criticising them.

  • Comment 104, posted at 03.09.14 16:42:04 by JD Reply
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