robdylan

Super Rugby 2015: the broad strokes


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 3 Nov 2014 at 10:47
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Let’s start our Super Rugby preparations early, by having a look at which players are likely to be in the mix for the Sharks when the Southern Hemisphere showcase kicks off in late February 2015.

We’re well ahead of the game here, given that the players themselves haven’t ever reconvened for pre-season. What’s more the addition of still more new faces to the coaching mix means there will be some inevitable upheaval. Expect Brendan Venter and Gary Gold to have their own ideas about exactly who will play where and what the pecking order will look like; another thing that we’re obviously hoping to see under the new regime is far more sensible rotation among what is still a pretty large squad.

There have been a fair few departures from the Sharks this year, with a slew of players opting to move on either during or after Super Rugby – in some cases, it was due to clashes with erstwhile director Jake White, while in others, the typical overseas attrition took its toll. The 2014 Currie Cup squad, though, looks set to stay on for the most part, tempered by the fact that not too many of this year’s under 21 crop look set to step up in 2015.

Let’s have a look at the players that are likely to form the mainstay of the extended squad in 2015:

Props: Beast Mtawarira (1), Dale Chadwick(1), Thomas du Toit (1), Jannie du Plessis (3), Lourens Adriaanse (3), Matt Stevens (1 or 3)
Hookers: Bismarck du Pessis, Kyle Copoer, Monde Hadebe, Franco Marais
Locks: Pieter-Steph du Toit (4 or 5), Etienne Oosthuizen (4 or 7), Wiehan Hay (4), Stephan Lewies (4 or 5), Marco Wentzel (5), JC Astle (4 or 5), Daniel du Preez (4 or 8)
Loose Forwards: Marcell Coetzee (6 or 7), Francois Kleinhans (6), Khaya Majola (6), Willem Alberts (7 or 8), Johan Meyer (7 or 8), Jean-Luc du Preez (7), Ryan Kankowski (8), Tera Mtembu (8)
Scrumhalves: Cobus Reinach, Cameron Wright, Conrad Hoffmann, Stephan Ungerer
Flyhalves: Pat Lambie, Fred Zeilinga, Lionel Cronje (10, 12 or 15), Tim Swiel (10 or 15)
Centres: Frans Steyn (10 or 12), Andre Esterhuizen (12), Heimar Williams (12), S’bura Sithole (13 or wing), Paul Jordaan (initially out injured), Tyler Fisher (13 or 15)
Wings: Lwazi Mvovo (wing or 15), Odwa Ndungane, Tonderai Chavhanga, JP Pietersen (13 or wing), Sizo Maseko
Fullbacks: SP Marais, Jaco van Tonder

We’ll use these names as a basis for further analysis over the weeks to come, as we wile away the long off-season.



70 Comments

  • 46 players. That’s a fair few less than we had in the mix at the start of this year.

  • Comment 1, posted at 03.11.14 11:05:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • A little thin among the loose-forwards, wings and outside centre but overall better than I initially thought.

  • Comment 2, posted at 03.11.14 11:07:59 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Eish ,fullback,only Van T can be seriously considered,how thin is that position

  • Comment 3, posted at 03.11.14 11:15:53 by benji Reply
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  • A pretty damn decent squad, but not one without concerns; 15 in particular is a big headache. SP has not yet convinced me that he can (consistently) produce the goods, and while I have liked what I have seen of Van Tonder, he really has not been given enough opportunities for me to pronounce an informed (or otherwise) opinion.

    I’m also worried about the remaining outside backs; at first glance it looks OK, but factor in one or two injuries (which could necessitate Lwazi at 15 and/or JPP at 13, for instance) and suddenly our depth seems rather thin.

    With Paul Jordaan out, 13 is obviously an area of concern. I’m also a little uncomfortable with our loosie situation; lots of names there, but not a lot that has been tried and tested at Super Rugby level. Then again, that’s how future stars are discovered.

    Guess we’ll just have to wait and see how 2015 unfolds. At least it should be as dire and joyless as 2014…

  • Comment 4, posted at 03.11.14 11:16:28 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : What about Venter at 9? Will he be in the mix?

    I think overall we’ve got some exciting talent coming through. A top 6 finish would be a bonus, given the amount of talent we’ve lost this last year.

  • Comment 5, posted at 03.11.14 11:42:52 by StevieS Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 5) : Venter’s leaving, to my knowledge.

  • Comment 6, posted at 03.11.14 11:44:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • With Frans and JPP probably returning late due to Japanese commitments plus Jordaan out for an extended period of time, it is going to be interesting to see what the back line looks like for the first couple of games of S15.

  • Comment 7, posted at 03.11.14 11:52:30 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 6) : Let me guess – Lions.

  • Comment 8, posted at 03.11.14 11:52:48 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • This is not a bad looking squad and I am not too worried about the areas we seem thin in, these things have a habit of sorting themselves out as the coaches and players find combinations that they prefer.

    A key issue will be who the new coaches seem to be keen on playing where.

    Is there a possibility of Keegan coming back now that Jake has left?

  • Comment 9, posted at 03.11.14 12:06:19 by stevovo Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 8) : that’s a solid enough guess :)

  • Comment 10, posted at 03.11.14 12:12:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • @stevovo (Comment 9) : I don’t think so. I think he signed a 2-year deal in Japan

  • Comment 11, posted at 03.11.14 12:12:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 7) : you’ve hit the nail on the head there, I’d say.

    JP and Jordaan being initially out of the picture seriously complicates things. Don’t expect them to stray much from 13 Sithole, 11 Mvovo, 14 Ndungane/Chavhanga, 15 Marais in those initial games. Remember that SP looked far, far better under Venter than he ever did under White. It’s in those early games that Fisher and van Tonder will have the best opportunity to step up and cement places for themselves.

  • Comment 12, posted at 03.11.14 12:14:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • I wonder if the fact that next year is a World Cup year is not a big factor in the Sharks not signing any one so far? Maybe they are waiting till after that tournament when a lot of player movement is going to happen to snap up one or two established stars?

  • Comment 13, posted at 03.11.14 12:39:47 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • The main concerns for me are 13 and 15 with no real quality backup for Sithole at 13 and no real star options at 15 forcing the coaches to pick wings at 13 and/or 15 and then cause a problem at wing. Another point of concern is the quality of the reserve forwards (especially the reserve props and locks) that caused the Sharks to totally fall apart in the scrums during the Currie cup!!!! Maybe a solution would be to pick Odwa at 13 as I’m sure his “lack of pace” should be less of an issue?

  • Comment 14, posted at 03.11.14 13:04:34 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 6) : Where is he going to?

  • Comment 15, posted at 03.11.14 13:06:01 by StevieS Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 8) :

    we havent had this many players on our books since Sapaka who didnt play for 3 years …

  • Comment 16, posted at 03.11.14 13:07:20 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 14) : I like the idea of Odders at 13. He’s a solid, dependable player.

  • Comment 17, posted at 03.11.14 13:08:30 by StevieS Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 16) : Sephaka is now coaching the SA Women’s team…and now they’re not playing :lol:

  • Comment 18, posted at 03.11.14 13:09:53 by StevieS Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 14) : Something else was wrong during the CC come scrum time. Adriaanse and Cooper has proved themselves before as strong scrummagers, Dale scrummed very well when he played, Thomas is a strong scrummager but is still very raw and needs more experience, the only one that was such a let down to me was Matt Stevens. I still think our main problem is cohesion in the scrum, if you look at the Lions, they scrum every scrum with 8 men, not just the tight 5 with the loosies hanging loose. This was the same problem I think that the Boks had against the Argies. The only way to sort out a problem like that is to make the guys scrum until they want to pass out, and then let them scrum some more. Once you have a scrum where every one from 1 to 8 scrum n unison, no scrum can stand up to you.

  • Comment 19, posted at 03.11.14 13:13:52 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 19) : You are saying exactly what I said to my friends the other day. It’s a problem you get if you neglect the basics. 8 normal players will always shove 5 Springboks, so we need a collective shove, secure our ball/put pressure on opposition ball, and then our loosies will wreak havoc!

  • Comment 20, posted at 03.11.14 13:21:05 by StevieS Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 19) : ja I agree with you about all 8 men scrumming together and yes most of the time our loosies was just hanging on and not scrumming but the inability of the coaching structures to sort out the problem is a worry and the lack of a “big scrumming” no.4 lock is also a concern for me.

  • Comment 21, posted at 03.11.14 13:27:56 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 21) : Will Dan du Preez be big enough for 4 lock in seniors?

  • Comment 22, posted at 03.11.14 13:44:26 by StevieS Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 16) : Any truth in the story that Rudolf Straeuli’s wife has opened a boarding house named Scattelings of Natalia.

  • Comment 23, posted at 03.11.14 13:56:32 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 22) : there’s the 48 million rand question.

    My feeling is probably not at the moment.

  • Comment 24, posted at 03.11.14 14:15:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • I though Swiel was playing in England?I reckon Odwa will be good @ 15 as well.I see we have no real No.13′s in team apart from Williams & injured [email protected]Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 23) : There a couple of B & B’s run by “sharks” here in GP:lol:

  • Comment 25, posted at 03.11.14 14:18:56 by markm Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 23) :

    :lol: i can not confirm or deny anything :razz:

  • Comment 26, posted at 03.11.14 14:22:06 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @markm (Comment 25) : Swiel is in England on loan. Returns to the Sharks in time for Super Rugby.

  • Comment 27, posted at 03.11.14 14:24:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 21) : You don’t really need a huge unit at 7 in the scrum, from my experience, it is more important for the flanks, both 6 and 7, to help keep their prop’s ass locked in. If a flanker is bound tight enough to his lock and prop, then changes of the prop getting pressurized to scrum ‘in’ is reduced greatly, as he keeps the unit locked in. Once the ball is hooked, it should then be one of the locks’ job to call it, once that has been called, only then must the flanks be allowed to loosen their bind in anticipation of breaking away.It irks me big time when I see flanks hanging loose on the scrum and an eightman with his head up. First secure the scrum, then do the fancy stuff.

  • Comment 28, posted at 03.11.14 14:28:42 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 24) : We shall wait and see.

    Off topic, and as a feeder idea for our young talent; I’m keen to see us using our Vodacom Cup as a reward for form in the Varsity Cup. It will let the guys know there is a reward and that they are being watched. I know they run almost concurrently, but we mustn’t be shy to call up guys from the Impi for the final rounds.

  • Comment 29, posted at 03.11.14 15:55:57 by StevieS Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 29) : I think the guys from the club scene should also get given a gap. No one cares about the Vodacom Cup in any case, so give the Varsity Cup and Club guys a gap to play in it.

  • Comment 30, posted at 03.11.14 16:06:42 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @StevieS (Comment 22) : ja he should be but not sure if he’s long enough?

  • Comment 31, posted at 03.11.14 16:11:52 by JD Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 29) : @KingRiaan (Comment 30) : ja but problem is that Vodacom cup is also used to keep reserve players fit and game ready.

  • Comment 32, posted at 03.11.14 16:21:36 by JD Reply
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  • some other names that may come into contention…

    Hyron Andrews
    Neil Maritz
    Alcino Izaacs

  • Comment 33, posted at 03.11.14 16:22:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 33) : what positions do they cover?

  • Comment 34, posted at 03.11.14 16:25:11 by JD Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 30) : @JD (Comment 32) : Both good points. My thoughts were along the lines of trying to attract young talent to the Sharks who might otherwise go to Pretoria or to the Cape.

  • Comment 35, posted at 03.11.14 16:41:02 by StevieS Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 34) : lock, 13, wing/15

  • Comment 36, posted at 03.11.14 16:45:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 36) : good news just were players is needed!!!

  • Comment 37, posted at 03.11.14 16:59:38 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 37) : yeah well…. they’re very young and untested.

  • Comment 38, posted at 03.11.14 17:12:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • I just heard from a friend that is usually very much in the know that Frans Steyn is not coming back to the Sharks for Super Rugby in 2015. This person happens to be close to both John Smit and Frans. Rob, any truth to this?

  • Comment 39, posted at 03.11.14 18:04:00 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 39) : well, his agent told me he is coming back….

  • Comment 40, posted at 03.11.14 18:31:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • why not play. mvovo at 13 his strong n fast. or fisher his big n fast

  • Comment 41, posted at 03.11.14 19:43:59 by Justin Koelman Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 33) : I rate Maritz at 13, I hope he gets a shot. Rob what about the youngest Marais brother and the big Jona we have, from Jeppe. I hear he is all class winger. Moers fast and huge….and Rob what happen to the other du Preez brother, is he still under21 next year? Also where is pieter stephs brother?

  • Comment 42, posted at 03.11.14 20:12:56 by BoerSeun Reply

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  • @BoerSeun (Comment 42) : wow, lotsa questions in there :)

    Ok so look, they’re running this thing they call the “grey squad”…. basically all the contracted juniors and fringe seniors training together from November all the way through till the start of Currie Cup. Retief Marais will be in that squad, as will the Jeppe lad (Nkosi) once he gets to Durbs in Jan. I don’t believe either is being considered for Super Rugby right now, but I’m sure the grey squad will form the bulk of the Vodacom Cup side.

    Regarding the du Preez brothers…. the older one (Rob) moved to WP, as you know. He was under 21 this year but senior next year. The twins, Jean-Luc and Daniel, are both under 19 this year, meaning two more years of u21 rugby for them. They are also in the grey squad but will apparently join the Super Rugby squad towards the middle of the month.

    Pieter-Steph’s brother, Johan du Toit, is also in the grey squad. Starting to sound like a stuck record here :)

  • Comment 43, posted at 03.11.14 20:21:09 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 43) : thanx Rob, Greyt news????

  • Comment 44, posted at 03.11.14 20:52:10 by BoerSeun Reply

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  • @BoerSeun (Comment 44) : “Greyt” news – sharp. :lol:

  • Comment 45, posted at 03.11.14 22:27:47 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • We need to spend some money on 6, 9, 10 and 15.

  • Comment 46, posted at 03.11.14 22:43:45 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 43) : for a moment there I was a bit confused with the “Grey squad” though you were talking about the Grey Bloem connection practicing together. Sorry was a reeeaaallly long Monday for the “old man”!!!!! Must say I do think it’s a really good idea and will give the youngsters some good exposure.

  • Comment 47, posted at 04.11.14 00:14:52 by JD Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 39) : @robdylan (Comment 40) : just hope when he (and the others) come back from the land of Sushi and Saki he’s in good form!!!!

  • Comment 48, posted at 04.11.14 00:18:36 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 40) : I hope you’re right. You and my friend are the two most connected people I know when it comes to Rugby.

  • Comment 49, posted at 04.11.14 00:29:50 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 40) : And once again, Rob is the one truly in the know. I just spoke with my friend, and he said he was mistaken and that Frans is indeed returning to the Sharks. He also confirmed with his agent. Good news indeed.

  • Comment 50, posted at 04.11.14 01:15:32 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 50) : glad to hear. Think your friend was just messing with your head ;-)

  • Comment 51, posted at 04.11.14 07:23:32 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 51) : Nope, he actually published it in a newsletter he produces, he really did get it wrong, was not just messing with me. We do have a 45 year history of messing with each other’s heads though. :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 52, posted at 04.11.14 07:53:31 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 52) : old friends are the best :)

  • Comment 53, posted at 04.11.14 09:44:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 53) : haha, he once called me (international call) just to mess with me about how much I liked yogurt as a kid. :lol: This was a good mistake to catch him in though, he has actually been quite contrite since correcting himself. ;-)

  • Comment 54, posted at 04.11.14 10:49:40 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 54) : glad I could help.

  • Comment 55, posted at 04.11.14 11:09:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • Any news on the du Plessis kid who played flyhalf for the junior boks?

  • Comment 56, posted at 04.11.14 13:08:58 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 56) : really hoping he is over the injuries and follows in his Dad’s footsteps.

    Spent most of my youth watching Michael Du Plessis, Danie Gerber and Jacques Du Plessis running havoc on the old Boet Erasmus stadium. How much would Sharks give to have a Domkrag in the front row :-)

  • Comment 57, posted at 04.11.14 13:23:25 by Kabouter Reply

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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 52) : just glad he’s wrong (tgis time)!!!!

  • Comment 58, posted at 04.11.14 13:31:24 by JD Reply
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  • I just wonder if he will stay. Rob you have a lot of names in that flyhalf position. Getting in Cronje and Swiel, don’t they rate him? I thought he looked really good for the junior boks.

  • Comment 59, posted at 04.11.14 13:46:45 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 56) : gone daddy gone

  • Comment 60, posted at 04.11.14 14:12:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • so just to be clear, my info is that Jean-Luc du Plessis has left.

  • Comment 61, posted at 04.11.14 14:13:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • Crapcicle! Lions or over the water?

  • Comment 62, posted at 04.11.14 15:51:20 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 62) : went back home, I believe.

  • Comment 63, posted at 04.11.14 16:15:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 63) : think maybe to much young(ish) talent at the Sharks?!?!

  • Comment 64, posted at 04.11.14 16:23:07 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 64) : in the case of that one there was a serious problem though. Apparently not a great team man

  • Comment 65, posted at 04.11.14 16:31:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 65) : Good enough for me.

  • Comment 66, posted at 04.11.14 16:59:51 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 65) : always a pity to hear something like that of a talented youngster!!!! Hope he matures and sorts it out at his next union.

  • Comment 67, posted at 04.11.14 19:22:55 by JD Reply
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  • @Kabouter (Comment 57) : ja I might be showing my age again but I remember a story about a game that was played between EP and the then Transvaal (now Lions). Frans “Domkrag” Erasmus were to play agains another seasoned prop in Barabas Venter. When a journalist asked Venter about what he’s plans were for playing against the “Domkrag” Venter replied: “if he is “Domkrag” just call me slim krag”.

  • Comment 68, posted at 04.11.14 19:47:11 by JD Reply
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  • So in short:
    From ” We’ll Finally win a super trophy ” beginning of this year, with a virtual Springbok squad and one of the best coaches in world rugby
    to :
    ” Don’t expect too much ” in Currie Cup 2014.
    Followed by:
    ” Hope for middle of the log ”
    In super rugby 2015?

    Not a whole lot to get excited about for sharks supporters is there?

  • Comment 69, posted at 06.11.14 11:25:59 by Original Pierre Reply
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  • In the medieval mind:
    If your father was a prince it qualifies you to be one also.

  • Comment 70, posted at 06.11.14 14:13:49 by fyndraai Reply
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