robdylan

Jeez Mossie, a “no thanks” would have worked too


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Springboks on 27 Nov 2014 at 10:21
Tagged with : , , , , ,

Jaque Fourie has become the second Bok veteran to announce his retirement from the Test scene this week, with the 31-year-old outside centre ruling himself out of next year’s World Cup, in favour of staying with the Kobe Steelers in Japan.

Afrikaans daily “Beeld”, which last month proclaimed that Fourie was all but a dead-cert to join the Sharks ahead of Super Rugby next year, have done a hasty about turn this morning, trumpeting the news of his retirement as a scoop and conveniently brushing the previous story under the carpet.

While negotiations between Fourie and the Sharks certainly did take place, my feeling is that the player’s heart was never really in such a move; Fourie made his intentions clear when he first took up the Japanese deal and had, effectively, retired from the Boks a number of years ago before Heyneke Meyer dragged him kicking and screaming back into the picture last year. Few will forget an out-of-shape and indifferent-seeming Jaque Fourie plodding his way through three test on last year’s end of year tour, when perhaps a promising youngster would have benefited more from the experience.

This news will certainly come as a blow to Meyer, who had already declared Fourie his first choice outside centre for next year’s showcase tournament. With little depth in the position and an insistence on picking inside centres or wingers out of position, rather than turning to a specialist, the race is now on to find a permanent solution.

As for the Sharks, one gets the feeling that they probably new about this move some time ago, if the decision to give the likes of Paul Perez and Waylon Murray trial runs is anything to go by.



51 Comments

  • I’m quite happy about this outcome. You don’t really need a player using the Sharks just as a platform to achieve another goal…..even if he is the ‘greatest center in the word ever’

  • Comment 1, posted at 27.11.14 10:28:38 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Dare I say it (and no disrespect to Fourie’s contributions), this is probably best for both the Boks and the Sharks.

  • Comment 2, posted at 27.11.14 10:28:43 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Has anything been offered to Peter and Murray?

  • Comment 3, posted at 27.11.14 10:29:13 by durbsguy Reply

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  • @durbsguy (Comment 3) : Peter who?

  • Comment 4, posted at 27.11.14 10:35:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 1) :
    Agreed.

    Ive got no issue with Fourie’s decision – like Rob said, he kind of made his decision a few seasons back. However, Meyer’s insistence on picking inside centres at 13 is now being shown up.

    Seems the false dawn of Bok rugby that the victory over the ABs seemed to herald is being slowly shown up.

  • Comment 5, posted at 27.11.14 10:38:07 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) :
    Brother of Paul (Perez) and Mary.

  • Comment 6, posted at 27.11.14 10:38:57 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Fourie probably weighed it up and decided to rather back his financial future in Japan than try come back into a harsh rugby environment and perhaps lose out on future income in Japan etc. With a family and a RWC winners medal it was prob a smart decision. As for the Boks- im probably one of the few that has no problem with our current centre combo. Plus show me 1 genuine outside centre thats put up his hand…and no Dejong def didnt put up his hand when playing against decent opposition for the Baabaas or during super rugby.

  • Comment 7, posted at 27.11.14 10:39:36 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 6) : :lol:

  • Comment 8, posted at 27.11.14 10:47:42 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 7) : as I said at the time, a move to the Sharks would never have made sense for him. Meyer would have picked him anyway, so why not stay in Japan and protect yourself from injury -all the while earning more money?

  • Comment 9, posted at 27.11.14 10:53:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 1) : Thank you, I thought I may have been the only one to feel that way.

  • Comment 10, posted at 27.11.14 10:55:59 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 9) : Yeh good point, but it is this picking of guys playing overseas that soured things between Frans Steyn and SA Rugby. Anyway will be interesting to see who they pick for this Japanese super rugby side..will guys that went there to avoid super rugby now end up playing even more rugby than if they had stayed here. For me the logical decision is just to pick purely Japanese players

  • Comment 11, posted at 27.11.14 10:56:31 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 7) :
    If you look at the Bok backline play and dont see a problem, then I must confess myself very surprised.

    A clue would be the number of passes that get to the back 3.

  • Comment 12, posted at 27.11.14 11:00:25 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 12) : No i never said there wasnt a problem. Just that i cant see another guy that should be there instead based on form.
    The main issue with the Bok backline is the guys are too flat and dont maintain their depth

  • Comment 13, posted at 27.11.14 11:07:02 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Sorry damn auto correct on my phone Perez

  • Comment 14, posted at 27.11.14 11:14:08 by durbsguy Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 13) :
    That I do agree with. But form shouldnt prevent the coaches realising that playing 2 12′s in midfield is not gonna win the WC next year.

    Whether they decide on Sithole, de Jongh, one of the Kriel twins or even Rob Otto, they need to groom someone for next year.

  • Comment 15, posted at 27.11.14 11:17:03 by Big Fish Reply
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  • I think this is the better move, both for the player and the teams.

    I also have no problem with the centre choices we have available for the Sharks and always prefer to see the talent coming through and being developed, rather than short term interventions that done always help long term.

  • Comment 16, posted at 27.11.14 11:17:55 by stevovo Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 15) : I’m hoping this visit from the NZ attack coach pays off for the Sharks and leads to at least one surprise inclusion in the World Cup squad.

  • Comment 17, posted at 27.11.14 11:23:46 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 15) : Its way too late to groom someone. And very tough to groom a guy at international level if he has deficiencies in his game. Im really against guys being classified as only a 12 or only a 13. the way the game is both centres need to be able to do exactly the same thing. For me its more of a concern the way our backline is coached rather than the personnel thats there. Besides JDV running a few dummy lines im yet to see us execute a backline move other than pass it down the line. And yes i know we play a forward orientatetd game but still

  • Comment 18, posted at 27.11.14 11:24:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I really cant understand why we are relying on NZ coaches etc to reinvent the wheel and create a miracle. How hard is it to coach the basics of backline play? Get the players running straight and maintaining their depth, passes in front of the player, players to run at the inside shoulder of defenders, always having a short option and one in depth. I mean this is what kids are meant to learn when they 13!

  • Comment 19, posted at 27.11.14 11:27:45 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 18) :
    Then we have a fundamental difference of opinion. I believe that 10 and 12 have a lot more in common, while 13 and 15 (even wing) have more similarities.

    I also dont believe that it is too late to invest in a 13 for the WC. In any event, Rob already made the point that Meyer’s long-shot on Fourie despite his clear decision to focus on his Japanese retirement fund is the very reason that there is a reduced time frame to finalise our choice of future 13.

    For my money, at least swop Serfontein and JDV.

    @SheldonK (Comment 19) :
    Look at the respective results and playing style and tell me again how you cant see the value of a NZ coach to help kickstart our backline play.

  • Comment 20, posted at 27.11.14 11:44:39 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 15) : @SheldonK (Comment 13) : I don’t think Sithole should be considered we’d still have the same problem cause he plays as a 12, Kriel’s are not the best 13′s @the bulls :!: How about Lionel Mapoe he was consistent through out,was the sole backline player @lions to defend properly in SR and can score,create and defend :?: :?: I don’t think he is bad.

  • Comment 21, posted at 27.11.14 11:45:21 by Chippa Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 19) : “How hard is it to coach the basics of backline play?”

    Judging from SA team’s performances in Super Rugby and the Boks, it’s not as straight-forward as “pull yourselves together boys and do these 4 things”. I’m guessing modern day defenses have a large part to play in this.

  • Comment 22, posted at 27.11.14 11:45:39 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Chippa (Comment 21) :
    Sithole has never played 12, and I dont see in what manner he even resembles a 12?

    Sharks problem this last season has been that Jordaan and Sithole cant play as a combo – both are runners, and inevitably what happens is that they combine to cramp out everyone outside them.

    I think the biggest learning for Sbura would be that he doesnt have to run over every defender – he needs to back his pace more and look for the off-load. Sadly, a lesson that applied to pretty much every SA player.

  • Comment 23, posted at 27.11.14 11:50:10 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Really not bothered about this I must say. He’s made up his mind years ago when he moved to Japan. We’ll survive without him.

  • Comment 24, posted at 27.11.14 11:54:03 by PTAShark Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 23) : Yes he’s never played 12 but there are more similarities between S’bura and Jan then there are of him and any international quality 13. 12′s are normally used as crush ballers and thats how S’bura plays because of lack of qaulity passing ability. A 13 must straighten the line and put the outside backs away,not die with the ball with no support around you which provides turnover ball for the opposition.

  • Comment 25, posted at 27.11.14 11:59:56 by Chippa Reply

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  • @durbsguy (Comment 14) : I thought so.

    No, I don’t believe an offer has, as yet, been made to either player.

  • Comment 26, posted at 27.11.14 12:03:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 20) : We can agree on swapping the jersey numbers of Serfontein and JDV but if u watch the games they do interchange on attack and defense [email protected]vanmartin (Comment 22) : I really dont think it has anything to do with the defense but rather poor coaching and application by the players. If we were getting the basics right then yes id say its the defenses that are tripping us up and we have to be more advanced…but we cant even run from depth properly.

  • Comment 27, posted at 27.11.14 12:04:36 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 19) : Was just watching the Kiwi rugby programme hosted by Jeff Wilson last night in the gym. They showed some highlights from the recent Kiwi games. The interplay between Kiwi backs and forwards against an organized defensive line is at a level we can only dream of.

  • Comment 28, posted at 27.11.14 12:05:13 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 28) : Agreed, but that has been worked on for years at both National and Super rugby level as all their teams play with the same ideas etc. They may also look like they playing with flair etc but they are just executing the basics really really well with a bit of individual brilliance shining through. Some of their forwards can pass better than our backs…so now is that the personnel or is it coaching?

  • Comment 29, posted at 27.11.14 12:11:55 by SheldonK Reply

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  • It would have been nice to have his experience and it would have helped shape our midfield. However we all know that Sithole is our future center and it remains to be seen whether Jordaan will pair with him but I rather liked what Esterhuyzen did to the defensive line when he got to play. So bad news boks but maybe not such a biggie for us.

  • Comment 30, posted at 27.11.14 12:48:46 by coolfusion Reply

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  • the more I think about it, the happier I am that he’s not coming our way.

  • Comment 31, posted at 27.11.14 12:55:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 31) : Rob i know you want Marius Joubert back…but no

  • Comment 32, posted at 27.11.14 13:02:24 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 32) : How could you not want back the ONLY Springbok to have ever scored a hat rick against the All Blacks? :twisted:

  • Comment 33, posted at 27.11.14 13:19:02 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 33) : I know, i must be mad

  • Comment 34, posted at 27.11.14 13:21:51 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 32) : aaaaw c’mon!

  • Comment 35, posted at 27.11.14 13:36:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • Let is give Sbura a chance. Hopefully with Brendan there he can learn a bit about the position.

  • Comment 36, posted at 27.11.14 13:41:56 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @Chippa (Comment 25) :
    A 12 has a bigger role in straightening the line than a 13 does. A 13 does need to pass and create (and no doubt Sbura needs to improve here) but making metres on your own or even creating space for others is hard when neither your 10 nor your 12 is straightening the line or drawing defenders (all of Zeilinga, Swiel, Cronje and Jordaan were culpable in that area).

    I would be keen to see ho Sbura plays outside of a Pat/ Steyn/ Esterhuizen combo.

  • Comment 37, posted at 27.11.14 13:47:36 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 37) : I’m not sure S’bura’s going to appreciate you calling him a ho…

  • Comment 38, posted at 27.11.14 14:42:33 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 38) : :lol: @Big Fish (Comment 37) : @SheldonK (Comment 29) : I agree with you both. Our u/14 team had more imagination that the current SR and springbok teams. I also believe 10 12 is closer than 12 13. 12 needs hands(passing and offloading) while 13 needs legs(pace pace pace)Even slow locks can score on the wing if you have a quick, hard-running outside centre. I know that’s over simplified ,but that’s how I see it.

  • Comment 39, posted at 27.11.14 15:55:37 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 37) : That would be an awesome combo. Then we also have the Frans/Pat combo, which looked dangerous, even under He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named’s gameplan.

  • Comment 40, posted at 27.11.14 16:17:25 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 40) : :twisted:

  • Comment 41, posted at 27.11.14 16:49:58 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 27) : In other words, you’ve answered your own question: “How hard is it to coach the basics of backline play?” Hard.

    If we’re struggling to even master the basics at SR level, then it’s apparently not a simple thing to get right. And that’s why it’s probably a good thing we’re admitting to this problem and getting outside help. My only concern is that getting a coach in for two weeks may not be enough time (but is still better than nothing).

  • Comment 42, posted at 27.11.14 20:19:37 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 11) : Oh yes, good point…didn’t think of that…

  • Comment 43, posted at 27.11.14 23:21:34 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 13) : I agree with both points!

  • Comment 44, posted at 27.11.14 23:22:56 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 42) : At least it is a start.

    Perhaps John should consider sending some of our up and coming attack / backline coaches to NZ to gain some experience.

  • Comment 45, posted at 28.11.14 07:48:09 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 45) : Wouldnt that make more sense in upskilling the guys we do have than have a guy come in for a couple practises?

  • Comment 46, posted at 28.11.14 08:23:02 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 46) : yeah, and I’m sure it won’t cost significantly more…. :roll:

  • Comment 47, posted at 28.11.14 11:05:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 47) : Whats a few thousand rand between friends rob ;)

  • Comment 48, posted at 28.11.14 11:19:06 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 46) : @robdylan (Comment 47) : must say getting “guest” coaches could work if the coaches joined in the sessions as they could learn a new approach to attacking play that they maybe did not think of. Always good to get some new ideas. Don’t just think of it as coaching players it’s also a refresher sessions for the coaches.

  • Comment 49, posted at 28.11.14 14:00:08 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 49) : Was thinking the same thing. A kind of “train the trainer” thing

  • Comment 50, posted at 28.11.14 22:43:31 by MysticShark Reply
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  • @MysticShark (Comment 50) : ja that’s what I hope they use it for.

  • Comment 51, posted at 28.11.14 22:54:43 by JD Reply
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